Starcraft 2: Legacy of the Void

[quote name='Salamando3000']Damn. Never would've thought that an Insane AI would be so vulnerable to a Cannon Rush. Got it to work for both a 1v2 Insane and a 1v3 Very Hard AI. I'll probably try it against 4 very hard AI later, once I'm not supposed to be working...[/QUOTE]

with the one I did a cannon rush on, the AI scripting was clearly bugging out. I went really close to the enemy nexus and dropped a pylon - they did the smart thing and sent all their peons to attack it. I dropped another two and they kept focusing on the first one. As soon as I started my first cannon, they moved to attack that. I cancelled the one they were attacking when it got weak, and started new ones.

THat part was good - the AI was handling it well. The second my first cannon phased in and started shooting, the peons/zealots started more or less spinning in place - they'd move a quarter of an inch left, then right.. repeatedly until they lost... Very strange behavior.
 
I've decided that everyone who bitches when they lose is saying the same thing "Why didn't you let me play how I wanted and win".

They are old men yelling at clouds.
 
i rage a lot
unfortunately it's self-directed

there's always a timing i need to take care of that i just totally forget about
like i did a marine hellion drop, camped tanks outside my base and i knew i forgot something but i didn't know what

i took out his spire a little after it finished and felt good
unfortunately he built like 12 mutas (lucky terrible econ management? or planned? i don't know)

and that's when i remembered... i didn't built turrets or thors
so after he devastated my base with mutas i held on with a couple thors. i knew lings were incoming but i didn't have enough econ or troops to hold it back. argg

same with DT rush, i need to be more aware

i also lost to some fucker who GGed me first. normally i'd be a bitch and start flying buildings and making him work for it for such an asshole move but seriously i got better things to do.

i seriously gotta work on that tvp...
 
[quote name='kainzero']i rage a lot
unfortunately it's self-directed

there's always a timing i need to take care of that i just totally forget about
like i did a marine hellion drop, camped tanks outside my base and i knew i forgot something but i didn't know what

i took out his spire a little after it finished and felt good
unfortunately he built like 12 mutas (lucky terrible econ management? or planned? i don't know)

and that's when i remembered... i didn't built turrets or thors
so after he devastated my base with mutas i held on with a couple thors. i knew lings were incoming but i didn't have enough econ or troops to hold it back. argg

same with DT rush, i need to be more aware

i also lost to some fucker who GGed me first. normally i'd be a bitch and start flying buildings and making him work for it for such an asshole move but seriously i got better things to do.

i seriously gotta work on that tvp...[/QUOTE]

I know what you mean. In EVERY game I lose there are at least 2-3 things I did wrong, or forgot. The only time I rage is when I get 6 pool+spine crawler rushed.
 
[quote name='Oktoberfest']stop taking people so seriously[/QUOTE]
I know know, I usually don't give a fuck, but I thought it was a well-contested game and then he pulls the "Terran OP!!!" crap. I was pretty happy about being able to defend against his attacks, and I just barely won. Someone saying you only won because of an unfair advantage that you supposedly had kind of takes the enjoyment of it... but that's just me. Starcraft is are serious business.

Eh, whatever... I told him to cry harder and he blocked me, so that was amusing. :lol:
 
Just single-handedly won a 4v4 by cannon rushing, and conquering, two of the enemy players. Felt so good. +42 points.
Then I win another 4v4 normally. +38 points.
Then I lose a 4v4 normally. -6 points...and I get dropped from Platinum Division 25 to Gold Division 6.

Can't say I understand the logic there, but I did lose a string of games last weekend.

~HotShotX
 
Geeze, people razing your base saying gg is a big pet peeve of mine too. Boy was i majorly :D in beta when i countered this guy who said gg after proxy reapering me and breaking my pylon. Best win ever.
 
Managed to successfully cannon-rush a 1v4 Very Hard AI. That takes care of all my Outmatched achievements. Did take two tries though. First time an AI managed to sneak an SCV out of his base and teched up to Battlecruisers. That kind of sucked.

When it comes to Raging during games, only time I really get mad is whenever my partner just sucks. Had a game earlier where my 2v2 partner tried a zergling rush, but since their front was walled off, he tried going the back way (up a rubbled path). Other team had that path guarded too. He never learned from that mistake though, and sent wave after wave of zergling to attack that rubble. When they actually decided to attack, the only defenses he had was a Queen and three roaches.
 
I hate it in 2v2r when the game starts and I ask if they have a plan in mind and I get a reply of, "Going void rays." Yeah we're doomed.
 
[quote name='suko_32']I hate it in 2v2r when the game starts and I ask if they have a plan in mind and I get a reply of, "Going void rays." Yeah we're doomed.[/QUOTE]

Clearly, you've never teamed with HotShotX.
 
[quote name='suko_32']I hate it in 2v2r when the game starts and I ask if they have a plan in mind and I get a reply of, "Going void rays." Yeah we're doomed.[/QUOTE]

Haha. I've been getting the same thing in 1v1s. I decided to finally play my placement matches and I keep choosing a race I'm not that good with (Zerg). Every toss I played against in my placement matches Zealot rushed me with 5 zealots (correction: that's not a rush...), didn't get warp gates and then transitioned into void rays. Their zealots didn't do any damage and by the time they had 5 Void Rays, I had tons of Mutas to take them down.
 
[quote name='suko_32']I hate it in 2v2r when the game starts and I ask if they have a plan in mind and I get a reply of, "Going void rays." Yeah we're doomed.[/QUOTE]
while i hate playing with randoms
i even hear this with partners. and while at first i'm like goddamnit, since i'm terran and therefore ultra flexible, i try to figure out what strategy would make his void ray most effective.

like if you reaper harass a zerg, he probably won't get hydras...




my mic broke AGAIN. 3 zalman clip on mics broken. wtf. i think something's wrong with my computer...
 
Any 1 want to team up for some 2v2s or 3v3s? im tired of getting matched up with terrible bronze players... im plat/diamond so just shoot me a PM and ill give you my info.
 
I'll take a stalker and a phoenix over a void ray any day of the week.

Chodax, Feel free to add me and ping me in game - my info is in post #1 in this thread.
 
[quote name='BattleChicken']I'll take a stalker and a phoenix over a void ray any day of the week.[/QUOTE]
i feel like void rays with speed upgrade give them good map control since you have to be wary of any cc/nexus/queen/hatchery snipes.

the problem is when people mass void rays (lol they can't charge anymore) and don't transition out of them.
 
[quote name='Salamando3000']Damn. Never would've thought that an Insane AI would be so vulnerable to a Cannon Rush. Got it to work for both a 1v2 Insane and a 1v3 Very Hard AI. I'll probably try it against 4 very hard AI later, once I'm not supposed to be working...[/QUOTE]
Even on insane the AI still isn't that bright. The first time I tried I did have it send all it's SCVs and take out my pylon, but that was because I built too close. The AIs seem to be programmed for quick or slow builds, with little actual intelligence.
 
[quote name='BattleChicken']When i think of people going voids, I think of people getting 20 of them. But yeah, every unit is useful - its what I like best about the game.[/QUOTE]

That is what makes Terran imbalanced in my eyes. EVERYTHING they have is viable. Terran gets the ability to make most of their units so fast and easily (just need rax+factory+starport+tech lab and they can build almost everything). Zerg and Protoss have to do a lot of guessing and hope they have the right counter. If they don't, it's often GG. It wasn't that big of a problem in SC1 because only certain units were viable in each matchup.

And banshees are too strong. :)
 
Everything EVERY race has is viable - every race has an answer to whatever the other guy will make - the one exception I see is tanks against low HP light units, and they're rectifying that. While I dislike Reaper in concept, they're usually easy enough to counter.

banshees may hit hard, but they're slow and fragile and cloak is expensive and takes a while to research. Also, I would argue that terran are the race with the slowest production. Reactors allow low-level stuff quickly, but build time on the reactor is pretty long, so that building's production is zero while it's being built. Additional tech buildings are also required for the biggest baddest stuff terran can make; thor, ghost, and battlecruiser (in theory.. Banshee + viking > battlecruiser)

Having to invest an additional 50/25 + time on every building to get the more techy units is also a hit to production.

When I'm against a terran as non-terran, tanks are what i fear more than anything else; the nerf to their damage to light is a huge boon to protoss and zerg.
 
Possibly a dumb question, but I've scoured the net and can't find anything relevant.

Does the game need the disk in the drive to play? My CD drive is slowly dying, I think, which isn't a problem since 99% of the stuff I get is digital anyways. Problem being, Starcraft 2 is that 1%. I just picked up a copy today, and other than the initial installation, do I need the disc at all to play once I register?
 
[quote name='BattleChicken']Everything EVERY race has is viable - every race has an answer to whatever the other guy will make - the one exception I see is tanks against low HP light units, and they're rectifying that. While I dislike Reaper in concept, they're usually easy enough to counter.

banshees may hit hard, but they're slow and fragile and cloak is expensive and takes a while to research. Also, I would argue that terran are the race with the slowest production. Reactors allow low-level stuff quickly, but build time on the reactor is pretty long, so that building's production is zero while it's being built. Additional tech buildings are also required for the biggest baddest stuff terran can make; thor, ghost, and battlecruiser (in theory.. Banshee + viking > battlecruiser)

Having to invest an additional 50/25 + time on every building to get the more techy units is also a hit to production.

When I'm against a terran as non-terran, tanks are what i fear more than anything else; the nerf to their damage to light is a huge boon to protoss and zerg.[/QUOTE]
The ability to lift off and use the add-on that was created from another building pretty much counters your entire argument, sadly. Example: start making a starport. At the same time, build a reactor at your factory. Lift the buildings, and swap. Boom, you have 2 vikings/medivacs making right when your starport finishes.

You don't necessarily need cloak to have banshees do a lot of damage. They do enough damage that you can justify just having them supplement your ground army. And the build time of cloak doesn't really slow them down, it's just a bigger investment (you can build banshees while researching cloak...)
 
[quote name='BattleChicken']Everything EVERY race has is viable - every race has an answer to whatever the other guy will make - the one exception I see is tanks against low HP light units, and they're rectifying that. While I dislike Reaper in concept, they're usually easy enough to counter.

banshees may hit hard, but they're slow and fragile and cloak is expensive and takes a while to research. Also, I would argue that terran are the race with the slowest production. Reactors allow low-level stuff quickly, but build time on the reactor is pretty long, so that building's production is zero while it's being built. Additional tech buildings are also required for the biggest baddest stuff terran can make; thor, ghost, and battlecruiser (in theory.. Banshee + viking > battlecruiser)

Having to invest an additional 50/25 + time on every building to get the more techy units is also a hit to production.

When I'm against a terran as non-terran, tanks are what i fear more than anything else; the nerf to their damage to light is a huge boon to protoss and zerg.[/QUOTE]
The ability to lift off and use the add-on that was created from another building pretty much counters your entire argument, sadly. Example: start making a starport. At the same time, build a reactor at your factory. Lift the buildings, and swap. Boom, you have 2 vikings/medivacs making right when your starport finishes.

You don't necessarily need cloak to have banshees do a lot of damage. They do enough damage that you can justify just having them supplement your ground army.
 
queens. chrono boost, and warp gates - the other races have faster production. Terrans aren't OP.

edit: Eh.. 'terrans aren't OP' is a bit oversimplified and sounds confrontational, where I didn't mean it that way. There ARE some tweaks I think should be made to the races, terran included.. like marauder (too strong), ultralisk (too weak), and carriers (... something? they're just not used).

I read it on one of the forums.. I think the best change the game can make is changing up building's armor classes. I think 'structure' should be a classification of it's own - all defensive/attack structures should be considered 'armored structure', everything else just 'structure'.
 
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[quote name='BattleChicken']No DVD required - in fact, you don't even have to install via the DVD; once you register the key on battle.net, you can download the client from there.[/QUOTE]

Great!

Thanks for the help!
 
i disagree with the fact that terran production is easy. maybe econ is easy.

zerg = one building, many hatcheries. can go from different production cycles easily.

protoss = warpgates + chrono boost. also i dislike that most online protoss lock themselves in one tech path and never seem to switch because they don't want to build more than one building. hey look, standard tvp in BW went gateway to robotics to templar to stargate (and either beacon or arbiter, but beacon means they didn't build templar). they built everything.
 
Yeah, as a crappy Gold Terran... having to remember to produce units out of all of my production structures can be a bit of a bitch, even when I have them all in separate control groups. I would love to be able to "W" and paste units about. :(
 
I used to think protoss were complicated to use, but it's so much easier. Build 6 warpgates, warp in army right outside enemy base=gg.
 
[quote name='kainzero']i disagree with the fact that terran production is easy. maybe econ is easy.

zerg = one building, many hatcheries. can go from different production cycles easily.

protoss = warpgates + chrono boost. also i dislike that most online protoss lock themselves in one tech path and never seem to switch because they don't want to build more than one building. hey look, standard tvp in BW went gateway to robotics to templar to stargate (and either beacon or arbiter, but beacon means they didn't build templar). they built everything.[/QUOTE]

Terran's macro/production is by far the easiest. To keep up with Terran, Zergs need to constantly spawn more larva with their Queens at ALL their hatcheries. This is very APM intensive.

Similarly, Protoss almost HAS to chrono boost at least something to keep up. Also, warping in units is more difficult. As Protoss, you have to 1) move your screen to a place where you can warp in units (a pylon or warp prism); 2) select your warpgates; 3) make units which involves hotkey + left click for each unit (so z+click, z+click, s+click, etc).

Compare this to Terran: 1) Select barracks. 2) dddddd. Wow I have 6 marauders making already. Also Terran's macro mechanic (the MULE) is the easiest to utilize. Select orbital command -> left click mineral patch. You also have to do this much less frequently than chrono boosts and spawn larva (once every 50 energy versus every 25 energy).
 
[quote name='Oktoberfest']Terran's macro/production is by far the easiest. To keep up with Terran, Zergs need to constantly spawn more larva with their Queens at ALL their hatcheries. This is very APM intensive.[/quote]
i'm not sure about this. in fact, i feel that if queen spawned larva at all hatcheries while expanding, the zerg player would be ridiculously overpowered.

i feel as if the APM requirement balances out the macro advantage.
Similarly, Protoss almost HAS to chrono boost at least something to keep up. Also, warping in units is more difficult. As Protoss, you have to 1) move your screen to a place where you can warp in units (a pylon or warp prism); 2) select your warpgates; 3) make units which involves hotkey + left click for each unit (so z+click, z+click, s+click, etc).
Click to expand...
hotkey a pylon. say, 4.
4wzzzzzzz

that's not that much harder...

Compare this to Terran: 1) Select barracks. 2) dddddd. Wow I have 6 marauders making already. Also Terran's macro mechanic (the MULE) is the easiest to utilize. Select orbital command -> left click mineral patch. You also have to do this much less frequently than chrono boosts and spawn larva (once every 50 energy versus every 25 energy).
Click to expand...
there's tradeoffs.
terran can't saturate expansions as easily.
terran can't get extra gas.
terran can't speed up research time on key upgrades.

i think it's more than just
"well, terran can get more minerals and it's easier"
but rather "how does each macro mechanic balance itself over the course of the game?"
 
I'm not really sure what you're talking about. I am talking about the ability to make the max amount of units out of its production buildings from a mechanical standpoint. I'm not talking about balance. Terran requires the least of amount of APM to have good macro and is the easiest of all three races.
 
That's essentially why I saw zerg as the high learning curve but high rewards race. If you put the extra effort into it (apm) they should be a force to reckon with. Its just that as of now, no matter how much effort you put into it, the casual terran tech will win.
I'm going to have to agree with Terran being low effort for good production especially when you compare them to the competition. In a heated battle even 1 second to screen back into your base to warp in units/larva is too long especially if you have to do it every 30ish seconds. I rather just attack with a terran force, and then hit 4ddaa1 when i know i get a chance, and i don't have to worry about doing it too early or late because of the queue. While I agree that muling/chrono/spawn does balance itself out in the long run, it took alot more effort for the protoss and zerg to balance out over the terran who just set and forget his mule and production buildings.
 
Cool dude looking for other cool dudes to play some 2's, 3's or 4's with, nothing sexual. you can add Rosious - 634 , plat level zerg if you are interested. again nothing sexual.
 
[quote name='Oktoberfest']I'm not really sure what you're talking about. I am talking about the ability to make the max amount of units out of its production buildings from a mechanical standpoint. I'm not talking about balance. Terran requires the least of amount of APM to have good macro and is the easiest of all three races.[/QUOTE]
I still think that when Zerg is up and running it's easiest. It's extremely easy to dump minerals and because everything comes out at the same time you can have an army ready to go immediately, whereas Terran has to build a lot more buildings to get their macro running.

Transitioning from 1 base to 2 or 3 base, it's sometimes hard to judge how many buildings you need.



Last night played some 3v3 with friends. We were stuck at the top of our silver division with 200 points with the next guy. We lost 2, won 1... then we got promoted to platinum? I don't get how this works.

It's almost as weird as my diamond 1v1 despite being 16-12.
 
Any tips on how to spend minerals as Zerg? I usually spam Zerglings whenever I get the extra Larvae, but that doesn't even work. Just played a game a little while ago where I had 1.3k minerals and 0 gas and not matter how many Zerglings I made, I never spent enough.

@Kain - I agree with Zerg being easiest. All you need to do is hot key 2 things. Queens and Hatcheries and you're set. I find myself not being able to manage every other race since I have to hot key multiple building structures. Once you get your 2nd base set up as Zerg, you should be fine.
 
[quote name='kainzero']I still think that when Zerg is up and running it's easiest. It's extremely easy to dump minerals and because everything comes out at the same time you can have an army ready to go immediately, whereas Terran has to build a lot more buildings to get their macro running.

Transitioning from 1 base to 2 or 3 base, it's sometimes hard to judge how many buildings you need.



Last night played some 3v3 with friends. We were stuck at the top of our silver division with 200 points with the next guy. We lost 2, won 1... then we got promoted to platinum? I don't get how this works.

It's almost as weird as my diamond 1v1 despite being 16-12.[/QUOTE]

I'm pretty sure the ranking system is based on your opponent's skill as well as your own.
 
[quote name='Oktoberfest']Terran's macro/production is by far the easiest. To keep up with Terran, Zergs need to constantly spawn more larva with their Queens at ALL their hatcheries. This is very APM intensive.

Similarly, Protoss almost HAS to chrono boost at least something to keep up. Also, warping in units is more difficult. As Protoss, you have to 1) move your screen to a place where you can warp in units (a pylon or warp prism); 2) select your warpgates; 3) make units which involves hotkey + left click for each unit (so z+click, z+click, s+click, etc).

Compare this to Terran: 1) Select barracks. 2) dddddd. Wow I have 6 marauders making already. Also Terran's macro mechanic (the MULE) is the easiest to utilize. Select orbital command -> left click mineral patch. You also have to do this much less frequently than chrono boosts and spawn larva (once every 50 energy versus every 25 energy).[/QUOTE]Select your warpgates? That's why you use hotkeys. With enough warpgates you can warp in a rediculous number of units quickly.
 
[quote name='Clak']Select your warpgates? That's why you use hotkeys. With enough warpgates you can warp in a rediculous number of units quickly.[/QUOTE]

His number 2 includes using hotkeys, that's part of "select your warpgates"

His point is still valid that it takes more steps to create units via warpgates than it is via barracks
 
[quote name='Brownjohn']I'm pretty sure the ranking system is based on your opponent's skill as well as your own.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but I dunno why they kept us in silver for so long, then had us skip gold...

[quote name='DarkRider23']Any tips on how to spend minerals as Zerg? [/QUOTE]
More bases!
I feel like 4 bases (8 gas) allows me to get everything.
 
I'm beginning to see alot more 2 hatch 1 base players. I know in beta it was frowned upon, but after doing alot of early mutaling builds, I'm beginning to notice a hell of a mineral buildup even on 1.5 saturated base. I gotta give it a try one day.
 
[quote name='KhaosX']I'm beginning to see alot more 2 hatch 1 base players. I know in beta it was frowned upon, but after doing alot of early mutaling builds, I'm beginning to notice a hell of a mineral buildup even on 1.5 saturated base. I gotta give it a try one day.[/QUOTE]

i do this. usually after i expo i can't spend my money fast enough.
 
[quote name='KhaosX']I'm beginning to see alot more 2 hatch 1 base players. I know in beta it was frowned upon, but after doing alot of early mutaling builds, I'm beginning to notice a hell of a mineral buildup even on 1.5 saturated base. I gotta give it a try one day.[/QUOTE]

I know i've skipped queen, fast expanded before - only takes 150 more minerals than building a queen and all that.. I figure the chance at extra mins would be worth expanding rather than just dropping a second hatch in the main.
 
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