Tax code too complicated for IRS - costs tax payers $11 Billion.

They were coincidentally talking about Obama phone on the radio this morning. Aparantly, it was started by Reagan and signed into law by Clinton.

Just like the recession, Iraq, and Afghanistan are Obama's fault, even though they started in 2007, 2003, and 2001, respectively. Wait, aren't those Bush years?
 
I don't think it's any coincidence that the laziest amongst the country also seem to be the dumbest. Just blame the liebrals, it's all their fault anyway for making Jaysus hate us.
 
[quote name='Msut77']Why don't you try harder instead of playing stupid games? I had enough of this particular brand of dumbshittery during the healthcare reform "debates".

Because your ilk cannot argue based asn issue on merit they instead try to deflect by insisting the founders would have been against with giving free buckets of leeches to poor people or something.



The fuck?[/QUOTE]
If you do not like response then click on the ignore button. I would prefer not be associated with someone as close minded as you. Peace.
 
[quote name='mrsilkunderwear']If you do not like response then click on the ignore button. I would prefer not be associated with someone as close minded as you. Peace.[/QUOTE]

Actually, you're way up there in the close mindedness here. But you're probably too close minded to believe that.
 
[quote name='elessar123']Actually, you're way up there in the close mindedness here. But you're probably too close minded to believe that.[/QUOTE]

Funny I could have said the same thing about you.
 
[quote name='mrsilkunderwear']Funny I could have said the same thing about you.[/QUOTE]

You know what's even funnier? You'd be wrong.

Or maybe you can explain how "the government always fucks things up" is more open minded than "the government fucks some things up." You can also add that to your "markets fix everything" mantra.

Btw, did you educate yourself on Pinochet's term in power yet?
 
[quote name='dohdough']You know what's even funnier? You'd be wrong.

Or maybe you can explain how "the government always fucks things up" is more open minded than "the government fucks some things up." You can also add that to your "markets fix everything" mantra.

Btw, did you educate yourself on Pinochet's term in power yet?[/QUOTE]

Yes, that is quite amusing. One thing you keep mistaking me for is an anarchist. I am libertarian. You should read some of my other posts if you think I hate the government. Nice try.
 
[quote name='mrsilkunderwear']Yes, that is quite amusing. One thing you keep mistaking me for is an anarchist. I am libertarian. You should read some of my other posts if you think I hate the government. Nice try.[/QUOTE]

Where and when did I make you out to be an anarchist? Or maybe you're so ignorant about those labels that you don't understand where the rhetoric overlaps and where it doesn't. Libertarians are nothing but dogmatic ideological children that want all the protections of a strong centralized state except when they find it inconvenient or when they have to pay for it. At least anarchists go whole hog instead of being agnostic fence-sitters. Where do I get this from? Obviously from reading your inane posts.

And "Nice Try?" Are you talking about you trying to change the discussion about comparing and contrasting the ideological stances between you and elessar123? I hate to break it to you, but it was a shitty try because I'm not letting you off the hook so easily. Not to mention that you still haven't said a peep about Pinochet.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Where and when did I make you out to be an anarchist? Or maybe you're so ignorant about those labels that you don't understand where the rhetoric overlaps and where it doesn't. Libertarians are nothing but dogmatic ideological children that want all the protections of a strong centralized state except when they find it inconvenient or when they have to pay for it. At least anarchists go whole hog instead of being agnostic fence-sitters. Where do I get this from? Obviously from reading your inane posts.

And "Nice Try?" Are you talking about you trying to change the discussion about comparing and contrasting the ideological stances between you and elessar123? I hate to break it to you, but it was a shitty try because I'm not letting you off the hook so easily. Not to mention that you still haven't said a peep about Pinochet.[/QUOTE]

They're the same people that bitch about local taxes and the conditions of the roads in the same breathe. Can't have it both ways, road crews don't work for free.
 
[quote name='Clak']They're the same people that bitch about local taxes and the conditions of the roads in the same breathe. Can't have it both ways, road crews don't work for free.[/QUOTE]

You CAN have tax money actually go to the programs that we feel gov't should be responsible for, such as infrastructure, versus crazy, generational poverty "incentivising" welfare, corporate subsidies, and a waaaayyyy over budgeted military. Local gov't's are notorious for overspending and poor budgeting practices. My municipality paid a stupid amount for 7 miles of poorly planned and constructed light rail with a ton of backdoor scandals and deals. The roads suck and could of definitely used that money. The rail also went waayyyyy over the projected budget, which caused less money for all the budget items that actually would have been beneficial to the city. Do the citizens have a right to bitch about that?
 
[quote name='dohdough']Where and when did I make you out to be an anarchist? Or maybe you're so ignorant about those labels that you don't understand where the rhetoric overlaps and where it doesn't. Libertarians are nothing but dogmatic ideological children that want all the protections of a strong centralized state except when they find it inconvenient or when they have to pay for it. At least anarchists go whole hog instead of being agnostic fence-sitters. Where do I get this from? Obviously from reading your inane posts.

[/QUOTE]

And Liberals are whiny, pussies who want to enforce rules and regulations on everyone EXCEPT themselves. They believe that the gov't can solve all of societies ills because private citizens are stupid and can not be trusted.

See? I can stereotype and generalize also.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Where and when did I make you out to be an anarchist? Or maybe you're so ignorant about those labels that you don't understand where the rhetoric overlaps and where it doesn't. Libertarians are nothing but dogmatic ideological children that want all the protections of a strong centralized state except when they find it inconvenient or when they have to pay for it. At least anarchists go whole hog instead of being agnostic fence-sitters. Where do I get this from? Obviously from reading your inane posts.

And "Nice Try?" Are you talking about you trying to change the discussion about comparing and contrasting the ideological stances between you and elessar123? I hate to break it to you, but it was a shitty try because I'm not letting you off the hook so easily. Not to mention that you still haven't said a peep about Pinochet.[/QUOTE]

Well lets see.. Initially you brought up an Somalia in our previous argument which is not a libertarian country at all. In your previously post you implied that I believe that government messes everything up even though I never said that nor hinted. Maybe you should read a little bit more about libertarians instead of getting your panties in a bunch because the only person who is acting like a child here is you.

Nice try referred to the close minded argument. What about Pinochet? Why don't you tell me a little more, I am quite curious.

[quote name='Clak']They're the same people that bitch about local taxes and the conditions of the roads in the same breathe. Can't have it both ways, road crews don't work for free.[/QUOTE]

Free yourself from the chains of ignorance.
http://www.odditycentral.com/news/dashrath-manjhi-the-man-who-moved-a-mountain.html
 
[quote name='mrsilkunderwear']Well lets see.. Initially you brought up an Somalia in our previous argument which is not a libertarian country at all. In your previously post you implied that I believe that government messes everything up even though I never said that nor hinted. Maybe you should read a little bit more about libertarians instead of getting your panties in a bunch because the only person who is acting like a child here is you.

Nice try referred to the close minded argument. What about Pinochet? Why don't you tell me a little more, I am quite curious.[/QUOTE]

Doh jumps to conclusions all the time, silk. He's pretty much called me a racist since day one. Just laugh and chuckle at his posts like I do.;)
 
Find me a Libertarian who defends social liberties as much as they defend economic liberties, and I'll produce a real, live Leprechaun.

Libertarians are frauds.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Find me a Libertarian who defends social liberties as much as they defend economic liberties, and I'll produce a real, live Leprechaun.

Libertarians are frauds.[/QUOTE]

HAhahahahahhahaha...you guys are hilarious. What social liberties are you referring to? You paint with a wide brush with your fraud statement. Are you sure you wish to go all in like that?
 
[quote name='egofed']HAhahahahahhahaha...you guys are hilarious. What social liberties are you referring to? You paint with a wide brush with your fraud statement. Are you sure you wish to go all in like that?[/QUOTE]

I am pretty sure Libertarians defend more social liberties than the actual liberals. My god are are these people out of the loop or what?
 
[quote name='egofed']And Liberals are whiny, pussies who want to enforce rules and regulations on everyone EXCEPT themselves. They believe that the gov't can solve all of societies ills because private citizens are stupid and can not be trusted.

See? I can stereotype and generalize also.[/QUOTE]
Actually, I made it about ideology and not personality traits. Nice to see you get dirty though.

As for calling you out on your racism, maybe you shouldn't say racist things and use racist sources for your arguments if you don't want to be called racist.

[quote name='mrsilkunderwear']Well lets see.. Initially you brought up an Somalia in our previous argument which is not a libertarian country at all. In your previously post you implied that I believe that government messes everything up even though I never said that nor hinted. Maybe you should read a little bit more about libertarians instead of getting your panties in a bunch because the only person who is acting like a child here is you.[/quote]
Is this before or after you touted Sweden as using "free market reforms" to grow economically during the world wars as if profiteering off them is something that's sustainable. Do you need me to link to that post to refresh your memory? I think I will...

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10702789&postcount=65

Don't make me post the whole thing for everyone to see. You just got served son, so either address it, apologize, or ignore it, but don't act like you have the higher ground on this one. You're simply over your head here.

Also, my reference to Somalia was referring to your initial example of France having a lot of regulations that you gleefully threw out without any context at all.

Nice try referred to the close minded argument. What about Pinochet? Why don't you tell me a little more, I am quite curious.
If you know so much about libertarianism, why the fuck don't YOU tell ME. Or maybe it's because you don't know jack shit about libertarianism.
 
[quote name='dohdough']

As for calling you out on your racism, maybe you shouldn't say racist things and use racist sources for your arguments if you don't want to be called racist.


[/QUOTE]

Please quote some of the racist things I've said, please. This hood keeps falling over my eyes or I'd look myself.....:roll:
 
[quote name='egofed']Please quote some of the racist things I've said, please. This hood keeps falling over my eyes or I'd look myself.....:roll:[/QUOTE]
I'm not going to go into the garbage bin of your post history for a gotcha quote, but you know exactly what I'm talking about in regards to that source and you defended it like it was going out of style.

You've also rambled on and on about "those people" that you have to help on your job that are so beneath you while regurgitating black stereotypes ad nauseam. But I guess ascribing social, economic, and cultural inferiority to a vast majority of a race isn't really racist because you have a black friend or get along with your non-white co-workers. You don't "hate" black people, but you sure as fuck don't think they're equal to you.

edit: fuck it, I'm not done. I work in an area that's similar to yours, but you know what? I see the exact opposite of what you do. I see people, that if given the resources, could do GREAT things. I see people working hard to clean up their communities. I see teenagers that had far less than I did at their age working their asses off in jobs, school, and helping to raise their siblings on little or no resources. I see people that are so hard working and entrepreneurial that they could run their own businesses and make serious bank. For every pregnant woman that you bitch about "getting their next check," I can point to at least two that do their damnedest to see that they get the education they need to become better parents and provide for their kids. I know former gangbangers that turned their lives around to do better by their communities.

You ever wonder why you get those responses? Maybe because they can tell that you don't really give a shit about them.

SNL-obama-dropping-mic.gif
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='dohdough']
Is this before or after you touted Sweden as using "free market reforms" to grow economically during the world wars as if profiteering off them is something that's sustainable. Do you need me to link to that post to refresh your memory? I think I will...

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10702789&postcount=65

Don't make me post the whole thing for everyone to see. You just got served son, so either address it, apologize, or ignore it, but don't act like you have the higher ground on this one. You're simply over your head here.

Also, my reference to Somalia was referring to your initial example of France having a lot of regulations that you gleefully threw out without any context at all.
[/QUOTE]
Oh my lord. What point are you trying to make? You keep serving yourself like a fool. Please leave in peace, your only making yourself look bad.

Do you not get that I am ok with regulations if they are limited and useful? This is why I brought up France and you bring up Somalia... Pity.

If you know so much about libertarianism, why the fuck don't YOU tell ME. Or maybe it's because you don't know jack shit about libertarianism.
I have been trying ever since I joined this section of the website. Limited government, individual liberty, peace and love are the main themes of Libertarionism. Shall I google it for you?

[quote name='dohdough']I'm not going to go into the garbage bin of your post history for a gotcha quote, but you know exactly what I'm talking about in regards to that source and you defended it like it was going out of style.

You've also rambled on and on about "those people" that you have to help on your job that are so beneath you while regurgitating black stereotypes ad nauseam. But I guess ascribing social, economic, and cultural inferiority to a vast majority of a race isn't really racist because you have a black friend or get along with your non-white co-workers. You don't "hate" black people, but you sure as fuck don't think they're equal to you.

edit: fuck it, I'm not done. I work in an area that's similar to yours, but you know what? I see the exact opposite of what you do. I see people, that if given the resources, could do GREAT things. I see people working hard to clean up their communities. I see teenagers that had far less than I did at their age working their asses off in jobs, school, and helping to raise their siblings on little or no resources. I see people that are so hard working and entrepreneurial that they could run their own businesses and make serious bank. For every pregnant woman that you bitch about "getting their next check," I can point to at least two that do their damnedest to see that they get the education they need to become better parents and provide for their kids. I know former gangbangers that turned their lives around to do better by their communities.

You ever wonder why you get those responses? Maybe because they can tell that you don't really give a shit about them.

SNL-obama-dropping-mic.gif
[/QUOTE]
Your confused child. We are not racists nor do we want to see people suffer. We want a fair country where we give money out of kindness because we want to, not because the government decides to take it away.

It is unfortunate that your actions are making this country worse for you and the people you care about. People will take care of people and not the government which is machine that will only thirst for more power. Peace.
 
[quote name='mrsilkunderwear']Oh my lord. What point are you trying to make? You keep serving yourself like a fool. Please leave in peace, your only making yourself look bad.[/quote]
Did you explain what reforms they made? NO.

Did you describe why they made those types of reforms? NO.

Did you throw out Sweden as an example without any real context? YES.

Was this before I made the comment about Somalia? YES.

Was Somalia a reference to Sweden? NO.

Do you not get that I am ok with regulations if they are limited and useful? This is why I brought up France and you bring up Somalia... Pity.
Hey genius, did you give any context about France. NOPE.


I have been trying ever since I joined this section of the website. Limited government, individual liberty, peace and love are the main themes of Libertarionism. Shall I google it for you?
What the fuck does this have to do with Pinochet? But yes, please look up Pinochet's link to libertarianism.

Your confused child. We are not racists nor do we want to see people suffer. We want a fair country where we give money out of kindness because we want to, not because the government decides to take it away.

It is unfortunate that your actions are making this country worse for you and the people you care about. People will take care of people and not the government which is machine that will only thirst for more power. Peace.
Was that post even directed at you?
 
[quote name='dohdough']Did you explain what reforms they made? NO.

Did you describe why they made those types of reforms? NO.

Did you throw out Sweden as an example without any real context? YES.

Was this before I made the comment about Somalia? YES.

Was Somalia a reference to Sweden? NO.
[/QUOTE]
1. Kept spending below 10% of GDP, deacreased payroll taxes, normalized wages without the pressure from the unions. Honestly I do not even know the rest.
2. I assume they made those reforms because they were broke as fuck. Yes, I think that was it.
3. Without any context? I am sorry but I thought it was fairly obvious. We were talking about government intervention and regulations. I gave you an example considering how much liberals love Sweden, thinking all those high taxes is what keeps the economy going.
4. I very much enjoyed you bringing up Somalia. Thanks again.
Hey genius, did you give any context about France. NOPE.
I thought it was obvious as we were talking about regulations. Well anyways France recently elected a new president who happens to be a socialist. He went ahead and expanded the government. Unemployment reached highest number since 1997 and debt is now over 90% of GDP. Oh and he also wants to increase the tax of the rich to 75%. I am no genius but I though you would be able to follow everything I said instead of just spewing examples of Anarchist countries and w/e. Again I am very sorry for not telling you this before.

What the fuck does this have to do with Pinochet? But yes, please look up Pinochet's link to libertarianism.
I do not know. You are the only person who is talking about Pinochet.
Was that post even directed at you?
Nope. I just felt the need to intervene. Tell me do you really think of libertarians as cold hearted bastards who do not care about minorities and society?
 
Peace and love? Are you fucking serious? Well you did list individual liberty before the peace love and rock n' roll, that usually comes first before any love. Something like "I love you Mr. Blackman, but I don't want your black ass in my business and that's my right as a 'Murican." Heh, maybe that's love in your world.
 
[quote name='Clak']Peace and love? Are you fucking serious? Well you did list individual liberty before the peace love and rock n' roll, that usually comes first before any love. Something like "I love you Mr. Blackman, but I don't want your black ass in my business and that's my right as a 'Murican." Heh, maybe that's love in your world.[/QUOTE]
You are quite confused. Just because some libertarians believe an owner of private property has a right to turn down a potential customer based on color does not me we approve of such behavior. It is like me saying that liberal hates individual freedom because he likes a big government. Clak I still have not seen anything constructive from you. Try harder.
 
[quote name='dohdough']I'm not going to go into the garbage bin of your post history for a gotcha quote, but you know exactly what I'm talking about in regards to that source and you defended it like it was going out of style.

You've also rambled on and on about "those people" that you have to help on your job that are so beneath you while regurgitating black stereotypes ad nauseam. But I guess ascribing social, economic, and cultural inferiority to a vast majority of a race isn't really racist because you have a black friend or get along with your non-white co-workers. You don't "hate" black people, but you sure as fuck don't think they're equal to you.

edit: fuck it, I'm not done. I work in an area that's similar to yours, but you know what? I see the exact opposite of what you do. I see people, that if given the resources, could do GREAT things. I see people working hard to clean up their communities. I see teenagers that had far less than I did at their age working their asses off in jobs, school, and helping to raise their siblings on little or no resources. I see people that are so hard working and entrepreneurial that they could run their own businesses and make serious bank. For every pregnant woman that you bitch about "getting their next check," I can point to at least two that do their damnedest to see that they get the education they need to become better parents and provide for their kids. I know former gangbangers that turned their lives around to do better by their communities.

You ever wonder why you get those responses? Maybe because they can tell that you don't really give a shit about them.

SNL-obama-dropping-mic.gif
[/QUOTE]


I love how you speak as if you have met me and know my deepest innermost thoughts. Keep it up, it shows how ignorant you truly are. Check my history if you want, I speak out against generational poverty and welfare abuse by the dumbasses of ALL races. I can take you to the trailer parks on the other side of my city and show you tons of white idiots who have and are still making poor life decisions just like the black idiots. There's also a place called "Little Texas" that I have been stationed near before, guess what? Brown idiots. I dislike selfish people who put their own wants ahead of the kids that they bring haphazardly into this world....and then they expect other people to pay for them versus threats of imprisonment. Are there good people on welfare? Of course. Should we be doing everything in our power to stop the cycle of generational poverty? Of course. Wouldn't logic dictate that stopping, or at least "de-incentivizing", the procreation of those who can't fend for themselves be a key decisive move in reducing the number of impoverished? Disliking people making bad decisions does not make me a racist. I decide if you are "inferior" by viewing the pain you have caused others by the results of your selfish actions, NOT by the color of your skin. I DO HAVE BLACK FRIENDS. I DO TREAT EVERY PATIENT I INTERACT WITH WITH RESPECT AND COMPASSION. Ask the 90 yo grandma who I carried down the stairs. Ask the 17 yo girl who's hand I held the entire way to the hospital because she was scared and in pain during labor. Ask the 11 yo kid I calmed down and made giggle after he had a seizure in class. You see great promise in your area? I'm stoked to hear that. You gotta remember that i'm seeing people at their worst. Shot, stabbed, overdosed, 4 naked kids running around a cigarette smoke filled house with 40's within reach, adults cussing in front of their kids...all I ask is for some common sense and just a little decency, PLEASE. Watch the "Wild Whites of WVA" (something like that) on Netflix. I fear that "those people", of whatever color, are becoming the norm. As far as equality, I believe every person is equal in the eyes of God, and it should be that way in the eyes of gov't also. That also means that no person should be given something that another person was forced to earn, worse yet to take it from those who earned it to give to those who haven't.

As far as posting from a website, go back and look. I'm pretty sure the info I pulled from that site was taken from an official gov't source site. But, quoting from a site that has ever contained any racist words of course makes me racist by default.:roll:

You are just wrong here, slick, but it does make me chuckle to see you trying sooooo hard.

PS:Anytime that you would like to share any of the details about your life (occupation, race, age, etc) feel free. Maybe we could understand each other a bit more.
 
[quote name='mrsilkunderwear']1. Kept spending below 10% of GDP, deacreased payroll taxes, normalized wages without the pressure from the unions. Honestly I do not even know the rest.
2. I assume they made those reforms because they were broke as fuck. Yes, I think that was it.
3. Without any context? I am sorry but I thought it was fairly obvious. We were talking about government intervention and regulations. I gave you an example considering how much liberals love Sweden, thinking all those high taxes is what keeps the economy going.[/quote]
So Sweden's unique geographical location along with the condition of most of the Eastern Hemisphere after WW2 has absolutely nothing to do with it? Are you going to tell me that the US's ascent to being a super power has nothing to do with not being bombed to hell too?

Btw, you know that recession you mentioned? It was caused by a LACK of regulation in the banking system, which in turn caused a housing bubble. Sound familiar? GREAT EXAMPLE, HOLMES.

Even in the period that Sweden had the least regulation that they've ever had, things are still more regulated than the US. If you're trying to prove how little you know about...well, anything, you're doing a damn fine job of it.

4. I very much enjoyed you bringing up Somalia. Thanks again.
Now you already admitted that you brought up France first, so that would mean that you were incorrect when you said that I mentioned Somalia first, right? Sorry, but you don't get to be indignant for throwing out two ridiculous examples and then getting one in return.

I thought it was obvious as we were talking about regulations. Well anyways France recently elected a new president who happens to be a socialist. He went ahead and expanded the government. Unemployment reached highest number since 1997 and debt is now over 90% of GDP. Oh and he also wants to increase the tax of the rich to 75%. I am no genius but I though you would be able to follow everything I said instead of just spewing examples of Anarchist countries and w/e. Again I am very sorry for not telling you this before.
Are you going to tell me that Obama was responsible for the state of the economy when he took office too? Sarkozy must've been an awesome PM to get re-elected for another term. Oh wait, he fucking didn't because his policies fucked the country. And I'm sure that every president/PM has gotten every little thing they've ever wanted too.

I do not know. You are the only person who is talking about Pinochet.
Hmmm...I also mentioned the Gilded Age, but you seemed to ignore that as well. I guess the guy named Milton Friedman is a nobody and had absolutely nothing with turning Chile into an economic shithole. Oh wait, he actually has a shitload to do with fucking over millions of people in Chile too under the banner of the "free market." I guess googling "Pinchet libertarianism" was too damn hard for you.

Nope. I just felt the need to intervene. Tell me do you really think of libertarians as cold hearted bastards who do not care about minorities and society?
Are you egofed? What does his disgusting views on race have to do with you that you need to white knight him?
 
[quote name='mykevermin']So sad, guess I'll never find that Libertarian. Harrumph.[/QUOTE]

What are you going on about? I'm a libertarian who values social and economic liberties. What is your definition of social liberty? Are you looking for the name of a Libertarian candidate?
 
[quote name='dohdough']


Are you egofed? What does his disgusting views on race have to do with you that you need to white knight him?[/QUOTE]


HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHHAahahhahahhhhhahhahhahhahahahah....hooooooooo...
 
[quote name='egofed']I love how you speak as if you have met me and know my deepest innermost thoughts. Keep it up, it shows how ignorant you truly are. Check my history if you want, I speak out against generational poverty and welfare abuse by the dumbasses of ALL races. I can take you to the trailer parks on the other side of my city and show you tons of white idiots who have and are still making poor life decisions just like the black idiots. There's also a place called "Little Texas" that I have been stationed near before, guess what? Brown idiots. I dislike selfish people who put their own wants ahead of the kids that they bring haphazardly into this world....and then they expect other people to pay for them versus threats of imprisonment. Are there good people on welfare? Of course. Should we be doing everything in our power to stop the cycle of generational poverty? Of course. Wouldn't logic dictate that stopping, or at least "de-incentivizing", the procreation of those who can't fend for themselves be a key decisive move in reducing the number of impoverished? Disliking people making bad decisions does not make me a racist. I decide if you are "inferior" by viewing the pain you have caused others by the results of your selfish actions, NOT by the color of your skin. I DO HAVE BLACK FRIENDS. I DO TREAT EVERY PATIENT I INTERACT WITH WITH RESPECT AND COMPASSION. Ask the 90 yo grandma who I carried down the stairs. Ask the 17 yo girl who's hand I held the entire way to the hospital because she was scared and in pain during labor. Ask the 11 yo kid I calmed down and made giggle after he had a seizure in class. You see great promise in your area? I'm stoked to hear that. You gotta remember that i'm seeing people at their worst. Shot, stabbed, overdosed, 4 naked kids running around a cigarette smoke filled house with 40's within reach, adults cussing in front of their kids...all I ask is for some common sense and just a little decency, PLEASE. Watch the "Wild Whites of WVA" (something like that) on Netflix. I fear that "those people", of whatever color, are becoming the norm.[/quote]
No fucking shit. I've mentioned the bolded many times and you insist that your experiences are typical for the average person in the area. This is not an exaggeration...not even close. In matter of fact, you go WAY out of your way to make black people the subjects in your examples of policies you don't like when you're spamming the forums with your inane threads. It's not just ONE thing you say, but it's a freaking pattern during your time in vs.

As far as equality, I believe every person is equal in the eyes of God, and it should be that way in the eyes of gov't also. That also means that no person should be given something that another person was forced to earn, worse yet to take it from those who earned it to give to those who haven't.
Yeah, that worked REALLY well for most of recorded human history. You might want to look into what the exalted Founding Fathers thought about what you just said about that.

As far as posting from a website, go back and look. I'm pretty sure the info I pulled from that site was taken from an official gov't source site. But, quoting from a site that has ever contained any racist words of course makes me racist by default.:roll:
You directly linked to a white supremacist website; not geocities site run by white suburban kids with rap lyrics by NWA. Just man up to it.

You are just wrong here, slick, but it does make me chuckle to see you trying sooooo hard.
Please...I know you far better than you think. I've already reasoned out what you really do awhile ago and you're not as coy as you think you are either. Even the greenist E-1 Marine is still a Marine I guess.

PS:Anytime that you would like to share any of the details about your life (occupation, race, age, etc) feel free. Maybe we could understand each other a bit more.
If you didn't troll vs., you'd know the answer to all those questions. Hell, you'd even know my height, weight, cars I've owned, jobs I've had, marital status, and where I grew up within a block. But hey, I don't tell anyone anything and like to remain completely anonymous to fuck with people on the internet.
 
[quote name='dohdough']So Sweden's unique geographical location along with the condition of most of the Eastern Hemisphere after WW2 has absolutely nothing to do with it? Are you going to tell me that the US's ascent to being a super power has nothing to do with not being bombed to hell too?

Btw, you know that recession you mentioned? It was caused by a LACK of regulation in the banking system, which in turn caused a housing bubble. Sound familiar? GREAT EXAMPLE, HOLMES.

Even in the period that Sweden had the least regulation that they've ever had, things are still more regulated than the US. If you're trying to prove how little you know about...well, anything, you're doing a damn fine job of it.[/QUOTE]
Hmm I am pretty sure policies make a bigger difference when it comes to economic prosperity. I did mention that they were not involved in any wars, a libertarian principle and something this administration lacks.

So your telling me the recession of the 1990s in Sweden was not caused by the expansion of the government and social programs? Increased GDP spending and unfriendly business environment also had no effect? Or how about the devaluation of the Krona by Prime minister Olof Palme and then later by his own party when they came back into power in 1982.

In 1985 like you mentioned the government decided to deregulate the bank lending. This was not a good move at the time because real interest rates were below zero after tax and inflation. This led to price inflation and economic bubbles. Who helped turn this around? Ingvar Carlsson. His policies helped Sweden in the long run but unfortunately had bad effects in short term.

So due to slow economy, reduced capital gains in taxation, real interest rates rising and of course Saddam Hussein who invaded Kuwait, Sweden went into a recession. Not so elementary huh Watson?

Now you already admitted that you brought up France first, so that would mean that you were incorrect when you said that I mentioned Somalia first, right? Sorry, but you don't get to be indignant for throwing out two ridiculous examples and then getting one in return.
Oh I did not realize they were bad examples, I thought I gave some info on Sweden. France.. Well I did not realize you would be stumped so I did not elaborate. Your example of Somalia was though quite poor because, again I believe in a government and not some place where rival factions murder each other for seats in power.

Are you going to tell me that Obama was responsible for the state of the economy when he took office too? Sarkozy must've been an awesome PM to get re-elected for another term. Oh wait, he fucking didn't because his policies fucked the country. And I'm sure that every president/PM has gotten every little thing they've ever wanted too.
Oh no, of course not. Obama is not responsible for what he was left with when he took over. In fact this was passed on by previous administrations, long before Obama and Bush. The problem is that he is not actually doing anything to improve the economic recovery instead his policies actually slowed it. Most popular example would be Obamacare. Funny thing is I voted for him in the general election in 2008 because I was hoping he would keep his promises when it came to social issues. Now I know how foolish I was.

I never defended Sarkozy, I am sure he was not great at all. Funny thing is he actually is more popular than Hollande. :D

Hmmm...I also mentioned the Gilded Age, but you seemed to ignore that as well. I guess the guy named Milton Friedman is a nobody and had absolutely nothing with turning Chile into an economic shithole. Oh wait, he actually has a shitload to do with fucking over millions of people in Chile too under the banner of the "free market." I guess googling "Pinchet libertarianism" was too damn hard for you.
Well I think I recall asking you what you were talking about, maybe some sort of cliff notes or analysis but you kept ignoring me on that. I will probably check it out sometime later as I am interested in Chile.

Are you egofed? What does his disgusting views on race have to do with you that you need to white knight him?
Oh my, are you sure you can handle the heat in this kitchen? You keep crying every other post. Calm down man, we are just having a discussion or is it too much?
 
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[quote name='dohdough']
Yeah, that worked REALLY well for most of recorded human history. You might want to look into what the exalted Founding Fathers thought about what you just said about that.[/QUOTE]



“I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”


Benjamin Franklin

[quote name='dohdough']
You directly linked to a white supremacist website; not geocities site run by white suburban kids with rap lyrics by NWA. Just man up to it.[/QUOTE]


I googled welfare statistics and that site came up. It had stats from the official .gov website so i used it. Play conspiracy theory all you want, it just makes you look paranoid.;)

[quote name='dohdough']
Please...I know you far better than you think. I've already reasoned out what you really do awhile ago and you're not as coy as you think you are either. Even the greenist E-1 Marine is still a Marine I guess.[/QUOTE]


What does this mean? I don't think you know even half of what you think you know....


[quote name='dohdough']
If you didn't troll vs., you'd know the answer to all those questions. Hell, you'd even know my height, weight, cars I've owned, jobs I've had, marital status, and where I grew up within a block. But hey, I don't tell anyone anything and like to remain completely anonymous to fuck with people on the internet.[/QUOTE]

Does troll mean not visiting everyday? Because then you got me. I have asked you point blank several times now, but keep evading if it makes you feel superior.:roll:
 
[quote name='egofed']What are you going on about? I'm a libertarian who values social and economic liberties. What is your definition of social liberty? Are you looking for the name of a Libertarian candidate?[/QUOTE]

1) Your posts here betray you.

2) Find someone relevant.
 
[quote name='dohdough']I see people working hard to clean up their communities. I see teenagers that had far less than I did at their age working their asses off in jobs, school, and helping to raise their siblings on little or no resources. I see people that are so hard working and entrepreneurial that they could run their own businesses and make serious bank. For every pregnant woman that you bitch about "getting their next check," I can point to at least two that do their damnedest to see that they get the education they need to become better parents and provide for their kids. I know former gangbangers that turned their lives around to do better by their communities.[/QUOTE]

Amazing. All these awesome people working to make their own lives and the lives of their friends, families and neighbors better - in spite of the evil 1% that's keeping them down.

[quote name='RedVsBlue'] We don't like it, but we'll condone it... [/quote]

I believe the quote he's looking for is "I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it."
 
[quote name='mrsilkunderwear']Hmm I am pretty sure policies make a bigger difference when it comes to economic prosperity. I did mention that they were not involved in any wars, a libertarian principle and something this administration lacks.[/quote]
Not wanting to engage in warfare isn't unique to libertarianism and the zealotry to actively engage in warfare isn't unique to this administration either. Hiring mercenaries, economic or otherwise, to continue imperialistic campaigns isn't any less violent or non-interventionist. There's more than one way to coerce someone than having a gun to their head.

So your telling me the recession of the 1990s in Sweden was not caused by the expansion of the government and social programs? Increased GDP spending and unfriendly business environment also had no effect? Or how about the devaluation of the Krona by Prime minister Olof Palme and then later by his own party when they came back into power in 1982.
What unfriendly business environment? Business literally boomed and then busted because there was no forethought into long term consequences of making risky financial transactions. Countries don't go broke the way individuals do and their economies don't crash because social programs were "too generous."

Currency manipulation, you say? You mean something that every country that has their own currency does?

In 1985 like you mentioned the government decided to deregulate the bank lending. This was not a good move at the time because real interest rates were below zero after tax and inflation. This led to price inflation and economic bubbles. Who helped turn this around? Ingvar Carlsson. His policies helped Sweden in the long run but unfortunately had bad effects in short term.
WTF are you even talking about? Lending at low to no interest led to inflation and bubbles? So lending at high interest rates would've been ok? Interest rates have almost nothing to do with it compared to that actual lending. Doing it in a wanton manner is exactly what caused it. Do the banks have no responsibility in this?

So due to slow economy, reduced capital gains in taxation, real interest rates rising and of course Saddam Hussein who invaded Kuwait, Sweden went into a recession. Not so elementary huh Watson?
People with enough capital to benefit from capital gains won't stop investing because taxes are higher. You already stated that there was an economic bubble in your very post and now you're walking it back? WTF

Oh I did not realize they were bad examples, I thought I gave some info on Sweden. France.. Well I did not realize you would be stumped so I did not elaborate. Your example of Somalia was though quite poor because, again I believe in a government and not some place where rival factions murder each other for seats in power.
What the mother fuck? Are you having a hard time staying on your own subject?

Oh no, of course not. Obama is not responsible for what he was left with when he took over. In fact this was passed on by previous administrations, long before Obama and Bush. The problem is that he is not actually doing anything to improve the economic recovery instead his policies actually slowed it. Most popular example would be Obamacare. Funny thing is I voted for him in the general election in 2008 because I was hoping he would keep his promises when it came to social issues. Now I know how foolish I was.

I never defended Sarkozy, I am sure he was not great at all. Funny thing is he actually is more popular than Hollande. :D
If Obama is not responsible for the mess he walked into, then why the fuck is Hollande responsible for most of the bullshit he walked into as if Sarkozy screwed the freakin pooch? Is it really that hard to follow your own arguments?

Well I think I recall asking you what you were talking about, maybe some sort of cliff notes or analysis but you kept ignoring me on that. I will probably check it out sometime later as I am interested in Chile.
For someone that professes to know so much about libertarianism, I'd think that you'd be familiar with one of Friedman's greatest failures. But no, I was the one that had to enlighten you on this little snippet of history. Once again, you've proved how you don't know shit about libertarianism.

Oh my, are you sure you can handle the heat in this kitchen? You keep crying every other post. Calm down man, we are just having a discussion or is it too much?
What is it with your kitchen bullshit? This isn't the first or second time you've used that cliche. Do you get off on being passive aggressive or something?

[quote name='egofed'] “I am for doing good to the poor, but...I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. I observed...that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”


Benjamin Franklin [/quote]

"Servants, labourers and workmen of different kinds, make up the far greater part of every great political society. But what improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconvenience to the whole. No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable. It is but equity, besides, that they who feed, clothe and lodge the whole body of the people, should have such a share of the produce of their own labour as to be themselves tolerably well fed, cloathed and lodged" - Karl Marx

But thanks for proving my point that you think the "Founding Fathers" were a monolithic group. You must really love narratives.

I googled welfare statistics and that site came up. It had stats from the official .gov website so i used it. Play conspiracy theory all you want, it just makes you look paranoid.;)
Yeah, it's a total conspiracy that google uses algorithms to tailor search results according to your searches and history. It must be fucking magic.

A reasonable and introspective person would conclude that they were careless and be more mindful of their sources, but you? You just go with it because your ego won't let you admit fault. I wonder what your religion says about that since you like referencing it so much when talking about economic policy.

What does this mean? I don't think you know even half of what you think you know....
Don't worry, I won't put you on blast for misrepresenting your occupation.

Does troll mean not visiting everyday? Because then you got me. I have asked you point blank several times now, but keep evading if it makes you feel superior.:roll:
When was the last time you made a post outside vs.? Looks like trolling is your only purpose here. I couldn't give a shit how often you post on vs. and you're just another troll leftover from the last election.
 
So if someone brings up Somalia as Libretarian paradise and the retort is the France and Sweden isnt that already giving up the fight?
 
[quote name='dohdough']


"Servants, labourers and workmen of different kinds, make up the far greater part of every great political society. But what improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconvenience to the whole. No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable. It is but equity, besides, that they who feed, clothe and lodge the whole body of the people, should have such a share of the produce of their own labour as to be themselves tolerably well fed, cloathed and lodged" - Karl Marx

But thanks for proving my point that you think the "Founding Fathers" were a monolithic group. You must really love narratives.[/QUOTE]

So Karl Marx is a hero of yours? Ok.....I gave the Franklin quote to demonstrate to you that libertarian ideals concerning welfare existed within some of the Founding Fathers. I never said they were "monolithic". its difficult to take you seriously when you constantly try to put words in my mouth.

[quote name='dohdough']

Yeah, it's a total conspiracy that google uses algorithms to tailor search results according to your searches and history. It must be fucking magic.

A reasonable and introspective person would conclude that they were careless and be more mindful of their sources, but you? You just go with it because your ego won't let you admit fault. I wonder what your religion says about that since you like referencing it so much when talking about economic policy.[/QUOTE]

I'm at fault and careless for presenting figures taken from a .gov site? You have to be joking....Please tell me you are joking.....

[quote name='dohdough']

Don't worry, I won't put you on blast for misrepresenting your occupation.[/QUOTE]

Oh please, please put me on blast. How have I misrepresented my occupation? Please be specific. You have a bad habit of looking for other things to nitpick while not addressing the actual, main issues.

[quote name='dohdough']

When was the last time you made a post outside vs.? Looks like trolling is your only purpose here. I couldn't give a shit how often you post on vs. and you're just another troll leftover from the last election.[/QUOTE]

So trolling means I only post in vs? Or is it defined by me having a different opinion and world view than you? For someone who often references the "Republican echo chamber", you might want to make sure you get out a bit more.......

I do really enjoy all of your posts. They make me laugh and laugh;)....
 
[quote name='egofed']So Karl Marx is a hero of yours? Ok.....I gave the Franklin quote to demonstrate to you that libertarian ideals concerning welfare existed within some of the Founding Fathers. I never said they were "monolithic". its difficult to take you seriously when you constantly try to put words in my mouth.[/quote]
:rofl:

It was a trick question and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker. You're as ignorant about libertarianism as mrsilkunderoo's. Seriously man, this is like basic stuff. Of course you didn't say they were monolithic, you just implied it by taking a VERY specific quote from one person rather than stating the truth, which is that they were just as disfunctional and partisan as we are today. Your deification of them only exists because of our cultural narrative.

Oh and LOLZ@"Karl Marx."

I'm at fault and careless for presenting figures taken from a .gov site? You have to be joking....Please tell me you are joking.....
Yeah, the entire point of the article was to just provide the facts with no racist intent and narrative...from a clearly racist website. We aren't talking about Fox News c'n'p an AP release. Keep on digging, holmes.

Oh please, please put me on blast. How have I misrepresented my occupation? Please be specific. You have a bad habit of looking for other things to nitpick while not addressing the actual, main issues.
HAHAHA...nah, I'll let you live it up for a bit longer. I find it highly amusing that you do it though. I have some old acquaintances that do what you do too, but they don't try to play it up as more than it is. It's kinda sad actually...

So trolling means I only post in vs? Or is it defined by me having a different opinion and world view than you? For someone who often references the "Republican echo chamber", you might want to make sure you get out a bit more.......

I do really enjoy all of your posts. They make me laugh and laugh;)....
You're not here to learn from OR educate anyone about your ideology. All you do is parrot some bullshit from Breitbart or Drudge. I can only imagine the type of crap you'd post during the O'Keefe scandals.

Go to freep. They'll LOVE you there.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Not wanting to engage in warfare isn't unique to libertarianism and the zealotry to actively engage in warfare isn't unique to this administration either. Hiring mercenaries, economic or otherwise, to continue imperialistic campaigns isn't any less violent or non-interventionist. There's more than one way to coerce someone than having a gun to their head.


What unfriendly business environment? Business literally boomed and then busted because there was no forethought into long term consequences of making risky financial transactions. Countries don't go broke the way individuals do and their economies don't crash because social programs were "too generous."

Currency manipulation, you say? You mean something that every country that has their own currency does?


WTF are you even talking about? Lending at low to no interest led to inflation and bubbles? So lending at high interest rates would've been ok? Interest rates have almost nothing to do with it compared to that actual lending. Doing it in a wanton manner is exactly what caused it. Do the banks have no responsibility in this?


People with enough capital to benefit from capital gains won't stop investing because taxes are higher. You already stated that there was an economic bubble in your very post and now you're walking it back? WTF


What the mother fuck? Are you having a hard time staying on your own subject?


If Obama is not responsible for the mess he walked into, then why the fuck is Hollande responsible for most of the bullshit he walked into as if Sarkozy screwed the freakin pooch? Is it really that hard to follow your own arguments?


For someone that professes to know so much about libertarianism, I'd think that you'd be familiar with one of Friedman's greatest failures. But no, I was the one that had to enlighten you on this little snippet of history. Once again, you've proved how you don't know shit about libertarianism.


What is it with your kitchen bullshit? This isn't the first or second time you've used that cliche. Do you get off on being passive aggressive or something?



"Servants, labourers and workmen of different kinds, make up the far greater part of every great political society. But what improves the circumstances of the greater part can never be regarded as an inconvenience to the whole. No society can surely be flourishing and happy, of which the far greater part of the members are poor and miserable. It is but equity, besides, that they who feed, clothe and lodge the whole body of the people, should have such a share of the produce of their own labour as to be themselves tolerably well fed, cloathed and lodged" - Karl Marx

But thanks for proving my point that you think the "Founding Fathers" were a monolithic group. You must really love narratives.


Yeah, it's a total conspiracy that google uses algorithms to tailor search results according to your searches and history. It must be fucking magic.

A reasonable and introspective person would conclude that they were careless and be more mindful of their sources, but you? You just go with it because your ego won't let you admit fault. I wonder what your religion says about that since you like referencing it so much when talking about economic policy.


Don't worry, I won't put you on blast for misrepresenting your occupation.


When was the last time you made a post outside vs.? Looks like trolling is your only purpose here. I couldn't give a shit how often you post on vs. and you're just another troll leftover from the last election.[/QUOTE]
Funny, Franklin also refused to patent most of his inventions, believing that everyone should benefit from them. Damn dirty socialist commie Kenyan....
 
[quote name='Clak']Funny, Franklin also refused to patent most of his inventions, believing that everyone should benefit from them. Damn dirty socialist commie Kenyan....[/QUOTE]

He was also a booze hounding womanizer that sired many illegitimate children, but that's neither here nor there...:D
 
[quote name='Clak']Funny, Franklin also refused to patent most of his inventions, believing that everyone should benefit from them. Damn dirty socialist commie Kenyan....[/QUOTE]

People still do that today. The idea is that you are free to either profit from an invention or to make it public domain. The gov't doesn't have the power, you do.
 
[quote name='dohdough']He was also a booze hounding womanizer that sired many illegitimate children, but that's neither here nor there...:D[/QUOTE]
The man was basically Bill Clinton if he was a brilliant inventor.:lol:
 
[quote name='dohdough']:rofl:

It was a trick question and you fell for it hook, line, and sinker. You're as ignorant about libertarianism as mrsilkunderoo's. Seriously man, this is like basic stuff. Of course you didn't say they were monolithic, you just implied it by taking a VERY specific quote from one person rather than stating the truth, which is that they were just as disfunctional and partisan as we are today. Your deification of them only exists because of our cultural narrative.

Oh and LOLZ@"Karl Marx."


Yeah, the entire point of the article was to just provide the facts with no racist intent and narrative...from a clearly racist website. We aren't talking about Fox News c'n'p an AP release. Keep on digging, holmes.


HAHAHA...nah, I'll let you live it up for a bit longer. I find it highly amusing that you do it though. I have some old acquaintances that do what you do too, but they don't try to play it up as more than it is. It's kinda sad actually...


You're not here to learn from OR educate anyone about your ideology. All you do is parrot some bullshit from Breitbart or Drudge. I can only imagine the type of crap you'd post during the O'Keefe scandals.

Go to freep. They'll LOVE you there.[/QUOTE]

You posted a quote and attributed it to the wrong person, Karl Marx. I asked if he is a hero of yours. How exactly did I fall "hook, line, and sinker"? Good to know that you are trying to trick people with whom you are having a debate with. It really enhances the view I have of you...:roll: I also think you are playing waaaay too much Bioshock Infinite if you think I deify the Founding Fathers. Do you have my posts confused with someone else's? Clak had that problem a few weeks ago. I know its hard to keep up sometimes.;)

Thanks for letting me live it up a bit longer also. I don't know how else to ask you to explain what you think you know. Good evasive tactics though. I wonder why I ask any questions of you at all.

As far as the "racist facts" I posted, I'm sorry that they did not fit your narrative. Did you admit fault about your carelessness back then? I don't seem to recall......;)
 
[quote name='egofed']You posted a quote and attributed it to the wrong person, Karl Marx. I asked if he is a hero of yours. How exactly did I fall "hook, line, and sinker"? Good to know that you are trying to trick people with whom you are having a debate with. It really enhances the view I have of you...:roll: I also think you are playing waaaay too much Bioshock Infinite if you think I deify the Founding Fathers. Do you have my posts confused with someone else's? Clak had that problem a few weeks ago. I know its hard to keep up sometimes.;)[/quote]
LOLZ...Adam Smith...Milton Friedman...who the fuck are they to libertarians, right?:rofl:

Don't get bent out of shape because you don't know squat about the heroes of your ideology. If you want to call it a trick, then go ahead. I was testing your knowledge. A person more versed in libertarianism would've been able to argue their way out of that Smith quote, but that ain't you.

Thanks for letting me live it up a bit longer also. I don't know how else to ask you to explain what you think you know. Good evasive tactics though. I wonder why I ask any questions of you at all.
I'm not being evasive about anything. Why don't you call the WHAAAAmbulance if it distresses you so much. It wouldn't even be an issue if you weren't constantly talking about how you're a FIREMAN! and giving us realtalk about how it is in da Hood.

As far as the "racist facts" I posted, I'm sorry that they did not fit your narrative. Did you admit fault about your carelessness back then? I don't seem to recall......;)
Facts, by themselves, aren't necessarily, racist, but interpretations certainly can be. Keep getting yourself twisted up about it though. Nice of you to start parroting terms that you don't understand too!
 
Stop picking on him Doh. He's a libertarian dammit, it doesn't matter if he's never heard of some of the more prominent libertarians of the past. That's history, libertarians don't need history. Heaven forbid they learn anything.

The religious right and libertarians seem to have a lot in common, neither seem to know much about the ideals they claim to follow.
 
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