The decline of Japanese Gaming

[quote name='dmaul1114']A lot of Japanese games are stuff I would have loved 10-15 years ago, but just don't care much about now that I'm older.[/quote]

That's a good point! I used to be obsessed with Japanese RPGs so much that I was a reviews writer for an RPG website; I was the kind of person who imported artbooks, soundtracks, figurines, you name it. I probably played through 100 JRPGs, from Dragon Quest in 1989 to Grandia II in 2000.

But by the time 2001 rolled around and brought Final Fantasy X, my tastes had changed and I couldn't stomach that game's adolescent pondering and awkward pining. At the time I thought the FF series was just going down the hole, but I've come to see that it was more about me growing up and leaving such things behind. Most of the RPGs I've enjoyed since have been western games like Knights of the Old Republic and Elder Scrolls IV, which are distinctly different from their Japanese counterparts.

To me, the difference is that Japanese RPGs ponder the question, "Who am I and what should I do?" while western RPGs let you assert, "This is who I am and this is what I do."
 
[quote name='rapsodist']That's a good point! I used to be obsessed with Japanese RPGs so much that I was a reviews writer for an RPG website; I was the kind of person who imported artbooks, soundtracks, figurines, you name it. I probably played through 100 JRPGs, from Dragon Quest in 1989 to Grandia II in 2000.

But by the time 2001 rolled around and brought Final Fantasy X, my tastes had changed and I couldn't stomach that game's adolescent pondering and awkward pining. At the time I thought the FF series was just going down the hole, but I've come to see that it was more about me growing up and leaving such things behind. Most of the RPGs I've enjoyed since have been western games like Knights of the Old Republic and Elder Scrolls IV, which are distinctly different from their Japanese counterparts.

To me, the difference is that Japanese RPGs ponder the question, "Who am I and what should I do?" while western RPGs let you assert, "This is who I am and this is what I do."[/quote]
The thing is, not all games by the Japanese are RPGs.
 
True, but you see the same stagnation (IMO) in action games, fighting games etc. in that stuff I'd have liked when I was 15 just doesn't appeal to me now that I'm almost 30.

RPGs are just the best example as the stories, anime influenced designed etc. just don't do anything for me any more.

But for me it's mainly just chaning tastes. FPS are about all I play these days, along with the occasional western RPG or action game or something like GTA so Japanese games don't get much attention from me aside from the occasional puzzle or fighing game. Or maybe the odd action-adventure game like Okami or something.
 
[quote name='DQT'] All Tom Clancy games look the same to me. 1up constantly makes jokes about bald space marines created by western developers and I can't blame them. It's usually either that or high fantasy nonsense. It really turns me off. [/quote]

I guess it's like the Western developers continual use buffed up space marines, high fantasy, special ops, etc is similar to Japanese developers use of androgynous males and emo characters. Of course our perceptions are based on the majority of the more visible games. That being said, the androgyny in many Japanese games annoy the hell out of me.
 
[quote name='LeafPanda']The thing is, not all games by the Japanese are RPGs.[/quote]

I think that's pretty obvious to everyone. I don't think that fact affects what I said at all. I was talking specifically about the RPG genre. I never said or implied that all Japanese games are RPGs --I never even discussed the probability that the genre best represents Japanese games-- so I have no idea why you chose to point that out.
 
I just noticed that 8 out of 9 games pictured in my signature are Japanese. Of course, many of them are old games but I guess I know where my heart lies even after all this time. :)
 
[quote name='Chacrana']Heh, I think the only person who actively avoids Western games is Sarang, but in most people's cases, I think it's less of an issue of disliking Western games out of principle than disliking the trappings you'll usually find in those games.[/QUOTE]

I do have some Western games just no so many persay. I have a tremendous amount more respect for the Japanese market because if one takes the risk it will usually be the Japanese company or one in particular almost always, that being Sega. Now that Sammy has bought them they've become the bitch and their quality has declined just so much. Sega had one of the most important things, making Arthouse product successful or getting attention, the budget to back it up to cover development. If ANY company, be it Western or Eastern, has a great idea for a product but doesn't have the budget to come close to pulling it off we all have a real loss there. I'm sure there are some small companies trying to think innovative but it just comes off as gimmicky bullshit because they don't have the budget. It's worse now as the companies are unlikely to take the risk as it's more high cost now.
Shit look at some of the art designs even in the older Sega stuff and compare what most companies would design, including said Japanese companies on average. Look at the style of the dragons in Panzer Dragoon, look at Azel's hairstyle in Saga for crying out loud. Sega also achieved something in Jet Set Radio no one in gaming had done before. The visual style of the game itself and some of the idea perfectly exemplified the culture of Hip-Hop. Now when did "Clockwork Knight" come out? That was cute, some ideas quite well executed. It's basically Toy Story in 2D in a sense with 3D elements. For the idea's well executed I liked having to watch out for the TV dinners falling on you.
Oh and for the art design idea mentioned further up I applaud Atlus for twisting Western Mythology on it's head, Thor as a monster for one. I LOVED that idea. "Fate: Stay/Night" has similar ideas so maybe it's just in Japanese culture but relatively few act upon it.
I guess I really should add Atlus for the part of being innovative. They managed to flip the script on an FPS a bit. "Maken X" and brainjacking anyone? These FPS people will NOT go out of their comfort zone, the Westerners I mean, so how would we ever see that here? Atlus managed to flip the script a bit in a genre so tired and lifeless in terms of innovative. How many FPS's do we even know of that you can create a huge variety of weapons, all with different strengths and weaknesses like "Dark Cloud 2"?
Oh and need I remind people, one of my most anticipated games, one I DESPERATELY want, is from a Western company. Anyone remember Nibris and Sadness? A game entirely set in black and white as well as being completely psychological in Horror? It's also set around the Victorian era. It's good to see the script flipped.
Two games I quite like, Eternal Darkness and Illbleed, are from both Western and Eastern devs. Though I give Illbleed the edge. See the ending of the Earthworm stage, it's so fucked up and funny for that reason. Oh and ED made it WAY too easy to refill the Sanity gauge. There should've been a hard or very hard mode that had it where it was almost impossible to keep full or dang hard.
 
Sarang,

I kind of agree with you (though, I would argue that few games take some of the risks that GTA makes).

I wonder how much of this is influenced by ownership. Many of the big US based companies are publically owned at one level or another. For whatever reason, the US is very focused on quarterly performance. You have to produce every 3 months. Because of this, if you take a flier on a new genre of game and it fails (and how often do we think that successfully innovative titles actually are financial disasters), it has consequences.

Buyers of games rarely purchase innovative titles, unless they are in a title that they feel comfortable with (Super Mario Galaxy was innovative in my mind, and people will buy a Mario title).
 
Most japanese games are relics of the past that refuse to move forward. The only genres they really excel at anymore is fighting games and platformers.

Western and European developers have really brought things forward this gen with mechanics and design and cut a lot of the fat accumulated in the time of japanese games' reign.

Nintendo is obviously the difference in this example as they've always been pretty much awesome and have tried lots of new things. I love Nintendo, but for some reason I don't even think of them as japanese in the traditional sense. Capcom is another one that is really excelling rently and I've enjoyed almost all of their games.
 
[quote name='lordxixor101']Sarang,

I kind of agree with you (though, I would argue that few games take some of the risks that GTA makes).

I wonder how much of this is influenced by ownership. Many of the big US based companies are publically owned at one level or another. For whatever reason, the US is very focused on quarterly performance. You have to produce every 3 months. Because of this, if you take a flier on a new genre of game and it fails (and how often do we think that successfully innovative titles actually are financial disasters), it has consequences.

Buyers of games rarely purchase innovative titles, unless they are in a title that they feel comfortable with (Super Mario Galaxy was innovative in my mind, and people will buy a Mario title).[/QUOTE]

Oh and for those out there that like the exploration aspect of Western RPG's I think Skies added it in nicely while still having a plot. It's quite fun trying to find all the discoveries.
I would love a Skies sequel with a massive amount of Discoveries to find(at least 500), 20 or so of which would also be things like secret weapon shops and such. Also for the online 500 separate discoveries would be included for fellow gamers to actively compete against each other as these would only be recognized when you're online. Heck there 500 may not even do it, more like 1000 would. I also like the idea of it including complimentary co-op to have a few people you can beat the game with while online.

Xixor the biggest problem with some of these Western companies, EA in particular, is they try to apply some standard business models which probably don't work as well for video games and movies as they do for other things.

As for having Arthouse product I wonder if getting people like Guillermo Del Toro, Darren Arronovsky and others creating their own game companies and promoting them wouldn't help tremendously. I mean letting their companies be very open in ideas for one as well as just fund raising to get the game done and slowly pay back the borrowers after sales. This is how the independent movie market functions. Oh of course the whole movie is shown to all interested parties so that couldn't be done exactly. I'm thinking you have a build that shuts down when you get a 1/4 of the way through or something. Just enough of the game to pique one's interest to see if this looks like something is golden or whatever. Have all the companies who try the game sign NDA's with it rendered null and void to the company who purchases the rights to it.

Shit even using the Indie movie system they could independently publish as well. The issue there though is being able to really sell product depending on your distribution contacts. I mean you could end up like "Ku-on" did, only being sold at Gamestop, EB and Fry's. The same thing happened with the first "Culdcept" as well.
 
is it that japanese gaming is dead or is it that the current consoles [360/ps3] has headed a different direction which causes a lot of the people to dislike it?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='pochaccoheaven']is it that japanese gaming is dead or is it that the current consoles [360/ps3] has headed a different direction which causes a lot of the people to dislike it?[/QUOTE]

Its the responsibility of developers to keep up with technology.

And I think Japan has in terms of graphics, sound etc. It's lack of innovation in gameplay, not doing as well with cameras and control in 3D games on average etc. that's lessened my interest.

The best Japanese games look and sound as good as the best western games for the most part. Maybe you could make a case that Japanese developers haven't done as well with online play--you may have a case there.
 
I was thinking about Portal and their all student team. Could Portal have happened in Japan? Probably not. I think Americans are more willing to take risks and let the best ideas flourish regardless of who came up with them, whereas the Japanese business culture (whoever stays in the company longest or has a proven track record comes up with game concepts) gets in the way of innovation.

Square Enix is an interesting case. They've actually taken a risk and allowed all their younger staff create Last Remnant on their own. They're also the company that has Tetsuya Nomura create 90% of their games.
 
[quote name='DQT']I was thinking about Portal and their all student team. Could Portal have happened in Japan? Probably not. I think Americans are more willing to take risks and let the best ideas flourish regardless of who came up with them, whereas the Japanese business culture (whoever stays in the company longest or has a proven track record comes up with game concepts) gets in the way of innovation.

Square Enix is an interesting case. They've actually taken a risk and allowed all their younger staff create Last Remnant on their own. They're also the company that has Tetsuya Nomura create 90% of their games.[/QUOTE]

Not willing to take risks? Japan came up with an arcade game where you stick a phallic object into an asshole. That's... not exactly playing it safe.
 
[quote name='Chacrana']Not willing to take risks? Japan came up with an arcade game where you stick a phallic object into an asshole. That's... not exactly playing it safe.[/QUOTE]

Actually to my knowledge Koreans made that but it might be the most popular in Japan. I assume you're talking about the arcade game with the giant index finger right?

DQT while "Segagaga" started as a Doujin project Sega published it and THAT was ballsy. Maybe not innovative but I definitely appreciate the idea of the humor in it, you playing Sega, fighting against Dogma, them lampooning a national Anti-Alcohol Spokesperson who I assume must've been a spazz(later taken out after the first pressing or whatever). Seriously recognize that for what it is, a game NO ONE else would've had the balls to publish period.
Sega also ended up breaking up various divisions and letting them do their own thing, Smilebit for one. Look what we got out of them and United Game Artists as well.
I do think the Japanese do use Anime too often in over the top antics crap which needs to stop though. Phoenix Wright is one example. "Objecdtion!". Seriously just tone it the fuck down, not everything needs to be like that or most Anime. A perfect example is "Battle Athletes" compared to "Battle Athletes Victory" but I'm getting off topic now.
 
[quote name='DQT']I was thinking about Portal and their all student team. Could Portal have happened in Japan? Probably not. I think Americans are more willing to take risks and let the best ideas flourish regardless of who came up with them, whereas the Japanese business culture (whoever stays in the company longest or has a proven track record comes up with game concepts) gets in the way of innovation.

Square Enix is an interesting case. They've actually taken a risk and allowed all their younger staff create Last Remnant on their own. They're also the company that has Tetsuya Nomura create 90% of their games.[/QUOTE]

Last Remant isnt really a big risk as it includes member of the saga staff and uses Unreal 3 engine.

At the same time you will never see something like Otomedius G in the USA either. You wont see any game that uses a $300 control.
 
[quote name='rapsodist']I think that's pretty obvious to everyone. I don't think that fact affects what I said at all. I was talking specifically about the RPG genre. I never said or implied that all Japanese games are RPGs --I never even discussed the probability that the genre best represents Japanese games-- so I have no idea why you chose to point that out.[/quote]
eh your right sorry =P
 
Bout the same here as the past 10 or so years. But I started on Japanese stuff in the 80s, got a PC in the early 90s... and discovering the beauty of western gaming on the PC in, what I consider, it's golden age - the 90s. So I have A LOT of western gaming under my belt.

Nowadays about the only Japanese stuff I play are JRPGs, JSRPGs, Shoot em ups, and Fighters. My genre interest in their stuff has lowered, but thats the case with my western interest as well. Just not as far ranging in genres as I use to be.

Play a fairly even mix of Japanese, and western games, overall.
 
[quote name='Sarang01']
DQT while "Segagaga" started as a Doujin project Sega published it and THAT was ballsy. Maybe not innovative but I definitely appreciate the idea of the humor in it, you playing Sega, fighting against Dogma, them lampooning a national Anti-Alcohol Spokesperson who I assume must've been a spazz(later taken out after the first pressing or whatever). Seriously recognize that for what it is, a game NO ONE else would've had the balls to publish period.
[/quote]

It is sooooo appropriate to bring Segagaga into this discussion since it's themes are so relevant today. I would love to play Segagaga, but I think the jokes would go over my head.
 
[quote name='DQT']It is sooooo appropriate to bring Segagaga into this discussion since it's themes are so relevant today. I would love to play Segagaga, but I think the jokes would go over my head.[/QUOTE]

Well I think putting out a Doujin product like Sega did is ballsy even by itself. It wasn't a proven product or anything like Air was. I was using it as a point in response to your comment about Portal and it being a ballsy move by Valve as this was a team of all students.
 
[quote name='62t']Last Remant isnt really a big risk as it includes member of the saga staff and uses Unreal 3 engine.

At the same time you will never see something like Otomedius G in the USA either. You wont see any game that uses a $300 control.[/quote]

I call bullshit on this. That's a HUGE fucking risk right there. Letting the Saga team touch ANYTHING is a risk. :lol:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top