The Legacy Wrestling Thread

Right. I've never once felt like the shows are unique, and that their format, flow, production value, and writing are all so similar that you can have guys jump from show to show, like Miz and Morrison do, and nobody notices. The "brand split" is a figment of your imagination. I suspect the wrestlers feel like it's genuine, since they tour separately. But as an end product, as a television show - as a commodity - they are so fucking identical it's sickening. It's Pokemon Red and Pokemon Blue.
 
You know, the brand split isn't as irrelevant as we all make it out to be. Remember the most important thing about it: It keeps us from having to see people like HHH and Cena for FIVE hours every week.

People switch constantly, but they *do* at least make an effort to keep the top guys on their respective shows. That's something, anyway. Lower card guys shift around too often, but when was the last time you saw Cena or Orton on Smackdown?

The draft isn't something I'm looking forward to. Inevitably, one of two things will happen... HHH moves back to Raw or Orton goes to Smackdown. Neither of those are real appealing to me.

Way too soon after Mania, too, since it'll make most of these feuds irrelevant. Or, at least, it makes Backlash irrelevant. It surely, however, must mean that at least one world title holder/contender from WM will switch. Has to.
 
I'm never all that interested in the draft. The way it's presented is fucking absurd, like the York Foundation's computer decides who goes to what show instead of human beings - general managers being general managers, that is - negotiate over star power. Like Teddy Long just letting Matt Hardy "go from ECW" for nothing whatsoever in return. That's a dumbass manager.

And we'll get the "shocking" (even if it seems to happen every draft, like a plot twist at the end of a Saw film) world champion drafted to the other show. OMG!!!

I see your point, 007, but I just don't - at all - feel like the shows are any different. Same shit, different talent. You know? I don't have to see HHH, Edge, or Khali at *all* - I can't think of the last time I even thought about Khali, in fact - since I don't watch SD, and hardly watch ECW. I'd rather WWE do something to make each show seems different from each other. It may be Triple H on Fridays and Orton on Mondays, but you know what? You could take the exact shit we're dealing with right now, swap positions and keep everything else the same about the shows' angles, and you wouldn't bat an eye. Two warms bodies don't mean much if people don't treat them like they're unique.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Right. I've never once felt like the shows are unique, and that their format, flow, production value, and writing are all so similar that you can have guys jump from show to show, like Miz and Morrison do, and nobody notices. The "brand split" is a figment of your imagination. I suspect the wrestlers feel like it's genuine, since they tour separately. But as an end product, as a television show - as a commodity - they are so fucking identical it's sickening. It's Pokemon Red and Pokemon Blue.[/QUOTE]So true. The only WWE shows in recent memory that have truly felt "different" were the One Night Stand pay-per-views in 2005 and 2006. I always wished they would just take the hit in ticket sales and have one of the brands stick to small venues exclusively. That's actually quite similar in spirit to the original Shotgun Saturday Night episodes, where they would have house shows going on somewhere else in the country while a different crew did a live broadcast from New York. Of course there was no concept of "brands" then, so Shotgun was always left with an odd assortment of leftovers like the Headbangers, Godwinns, Fake Razor, and Rookie Sensation Rocky Maivia every week. But now that they've essentially got two fleshed-out road crews, I'd love to see them try this concept again. I assume they just don't want to let go of the merchandise figures they pull from the big arenas though. :whistle2:(
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Midway filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection today.

This almost certainly means no TNA Impact! 2. From Midway, anyway.[/QUOTE]

I remember hearing or reading that Impact 2 is definitely coming, because the costs will be substantially lower than developing a new game from the ground up.
 
According to the Wrestling Observer TNA's PPV buyrates are at an all time low, to the point that they were selling more units when on Fox Sports Net. They have been doing below 20,000 buys, with Against All Odds projections being below 14,000. They are currently rethinking how they can promote their big events.

They'll do this, just like WWE will: they won't change a fucking thing about PPV events every 4 weeks and blame the economy. (Assuming WWE PPV buys drop, which I fully expect as well.) 4 weeks to convince me to pay $35-40 (how much are TNA/WWE shows these days?) just isn't enough. You need time to build interest, to sell me on the event, to promote every match as if it matters. Pro wrestling always says this trite nonsense like "we offer 3 hours of guaranteed action, not 15-second knockouts like boxing and mma!" but they fail to realize that they're losing ground to 15-second knockouts, and that Wrestlemania was not, by a long shot, the best-selling PPV event of last year. 3 hours of action doesn't mean shit when you put together matches and feuds in the 4-6 days leading up to the show. And 8-minute matches ain't action. 8 minutes don't satisfy. Ask your wife/gf.

They can live in the past and act as if they don't need to change their PPV model at all, or they can use their TV time to spend 4 weeks building EVERY feud on the show, making EVERY moment matter. TNA's last PPV was positively forgettable. WWE could have teased Christian's return at No Way Out, or held him off until Backlash. They gave away for free (and poorly) what people would pay for. It's silly. Riddle me this: is there ANY reason to watch No Way Out this Sunday? Cena's going to retain, Swagger's going to retain, there's some excitement in the SD chamber, the JBL/HBK stipulation is good - but there's two matches. Orton/McMahon? You know how I feel about that.

And that's going on the fact that WWE PPV shows are typically light years better than TNA.
 
Man I would love a return to the "Big 4" PPV cycle. Although, oddly enough, I kinda liked when they did the "brand-exclusive" PPVs for a while. At the time they were doing a decent job of keeping the wrestlers on different shows, so each show basically had an "off month" with no PPV which gave them more time to build the feuds. The obvious problem was that injuries and stuff would often lead to an alarmingly thin roster (Taker vs. Dudleys as a PPV main event?), and then they would panic and start switching the wrestlers around, and then like all things "brand" related they would fail to commit to the idea and things just went back to normal.
 
[quote name='BustaUppa']Man I would love a return to the "Big 4" PPV cycle. Although, oddly enough, I kinda liked when they did the "brand-exclusive" PPVs for a while. At the time they were doing a decent job of keeping the wrestlers on different shows, so each show basically had an "off month" with no PPV which gave them more time to build the feuds. The obvious problem was that injuries and stuff would often lead to an alarmingly thin roster (Taker vs. Dudleys as a PPV main event?), and then they would panic and start switching the wrestlers around, and then like all things "brand" related they would fail to commit to the idea and things just went back to normal.[/quote]

I can agree with this. The seperate brand PPVs could have been so good if they actually worked with what they had and not just relied on the same handful of guys over and over. It's like it defeats the purpose of having them brand split in the first place (I am referring to a few years ago , not now , since obviously everyone pretty much just brand hops now anyways).

Although by and far I think as a single brand show "The Great American Bash" had the worst track record for shitty ppvs.
2004: Gave us 3 new wrestlers who all won against veterans in 3 crappy matches , and the "concreate crypt" match. The highlight was the bullrope match mainevent.
2005: Memorable for the "death" of Muhammid Hussan.
2006: Memorable for the "punjabi prison match".
 
What the fuck is a concrete crypt match?

I could deal with 6-8 PPVs, with 6-7 weeks buildup for each. But the PPV cycle will only change once monthly PPVs stop being profitable for the WWE.

Which leads me to a question that is as unanswerable as the most revered Buddhist Koan: WHO IN THE BLUE HELL KEEPS BUYING THESE TERRIBLE fuckING PROGRAMS?
 
The concrete crypt match was Undertaker vs the Dudleys. The stip was if Taker lost, then Paul Bearer(who was in a glass enclosure underneath a cement truck) would be buried in cement. Taker won, and then he himself buried Paul Bearer.
 
Randy Savage vs. Rick Steiner - 1/4/00 Tokyo Dome show
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AHH4VDFY

Impact thoughts -

Fun little show right there. While I think they're rushing through the self-destruction of the Mafia (they've only been a group for three months now), I did like what they did with Angle and Sting tonight. Sting's been on a roll with his promos since this group started, and tonight was no different. Angle was also good, and his anger felt a bit more legit with that massive cut above his eye throughout the show. I don't think TNA did a very good job of hyping up the Sting-Angle empty arena match in just one week, but it's not like it would really matter - nothing they do is likely going to cause a notable bump in either viewers or buyers, so they might as well just get this over with while they're doing a good job with it as opposed to dragging it out and screwing things up.

The opener was perfectly fine as a match, aside from the awful-looking finish, and it worked to set up more tension between Angle and Sting. Plus, DW mentioning "Main Event Mafia Land" made me envision a theme park with Scott Steiner as a ticket taker insulting patrons as they entered, while also acting as the intercom guy and insulting the folks who leave their lights on. A tour of Booker T's locker room would be a must, as would a Kevin Nash museum that played his Shelley skits non-stop and featured an archive of the pie charts used to show how he packed 25,000 in the Garden.

The Guns-Lethal Consequences match was a decent X division showcase, although it was a little too full of spots with guys just moving around awkwardly to set up spots. At least when that happened in Steiner-Petey (the NO DQ, THERE MUST BE A WINNER, HEADDRESS ON A POLE match), with Steiner taking forever to set up the frankensteiner, it was entertaining because Scott kept lifting up Petey's arm towards the sacred headdress to mock him. Plus, he called Joe a wannabe Samoan, not a half breed, then corrected himself, and then his promo ended. God that was awesome. And then Joe said stuff and acted all menacing. Hell of a revamp for him - he does look like a goof with that tribal paint on his face, and the heels are speaking too much truth about how ridiculous it is.

The Dr. Stevie/Chris Abyss therapy session was amusing - I loved Stevie being shot like Dr. Claw with them avoiding his face, but not bothering to do anything to obscure his obvious voice. Morgan cracking Abyss with the chair during the tag title match was great due to DW expressing great rage not due to the chairshot, but due to Morgan spitting on the chair first.

The show-closing brawl was another instance of TNA really nailing the Memphis-style brawl perfectly. Having the Mafia members kind of pick sides with who they pulled off was a nice touch, and I'm looking forward to seeing where things go with the Mafia. I don't care much about the Frontline though, but right now, no one really should, as the Mafia members come off as far cooler, and their battle with one another is more interesting than any Frontline vs. MEM feud except for maybe Steiner-Joe.

Quotes -
(after Sting costs Angle the match)DW - IT’S NOT GONNA BE ROSIE IN MAIN EVENT MAFIA-LAND!
DW - WHAT DOES THIS MEAN!? STING SAYS HE’LL TAKE KURT ANGLE UP ON HIS OFFER AND SEE HIM IN THE RING LATER!
Steiner - Joe’s a fat, out of shape wannabe Samoan! See, I know Samoans and he’s not half-breed, he is a half-breed!
Penzer - The following is a NO DISQUALIFICATION pole match - THERE MUST BE A WINNER! The first one to retrieve the HEADDRESS will be the winner!
DW - FRANKENSTEINER!
Tenay - WOW, JUST WHEN YOU THINK YOU’VE SEEN IT ALL - HE PULLS OUT A MOVE LIKE THAT!
Foley - I made a segment called Hardcore History 101 to keep fans informed on my greatest hardcore moments - whether they be from the indies in the ‘80s, my early days in WCW, Halftime Heat with the Rock, or even AJ Styles failing to see me under a table and nearly broke my leg in half.
Dr. Stevie - Let’s meet at the same time next week.
Abyss - THANKS DR. STEVIE! I’M LOOKING FORWARD TO IT!
(after Morgan hits Abyss with a chair)DW - HE SPITS ON THE CHAIR FOR GOOD MEASURE RIGHT BEFORE SLAMMING IT INTO HIS HEAD!

Screens -
















 
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[quote name='pitfallharry219']The concrete crypt match was Undertaker vs the Dudleys. The stip was if Taker lost, then Paul Bearer(who was in a glass enclosure underneath a cement truck) would be buried in cement. Taker won, and then he himself buried Paul Bearer.[/QUOTE]

That's right. Thanks.
 
I wonder if Vince ever watches those old Wrestlemania videos they're running and think, "Wow, Wrestlemania really used to mean something back in the day". Now it's just another 1 of 12 PPV's a year.

A return to the big 4 cycle would be great but I can't really see it happening.
 
So like, no one watched Smackdown?

I was hoping Christian would pop up. He didn't and the show was pretty meh.

That being said, the SD elimination chamber seems to have a great deal more promise than the RAW one. Triple H's assumed hunger to be in the WM25 main event aside, I could see Undertaker, Big Show, Edge, Triple H, or Jeff Hardy winning the match. My prediction is Triple H but it is at least better than the RAW situation where you know it's probably going to be Cena retaining with a tiny chance of Jericho stealing a win.
 
No Way Out has 5 matches:

Raw Chamber
SD Chamber
JBL/HBK
Orton/McMahon
Swagger/Finlay

That's $8 per match! But when you consider that Finlay/Swagger is already expired due to them moving onto Christian/Swagger last week, it doesn't matter. If you look at the caliber of competitors in the Raw Chamber, you know it doesn't matter either. So no we're at 3 matches worth having interest in, at $13 a pop.

We'll probably get some sort of 5-minute Crime Time/Miz and Morrison match, though.
 
I think the IC and Women's title is up for grabs too.

Is it just me, or does it seem like WM25 has zero hype? There's no matches buildup, no famous people being there, and there doesn't seem to be any "classic" stuff going down.

Why is WWE so reluctant to make their shows different from one another? Why don't they have shows battling each other out? Why is there no Outsiders like stuff taking place on the shows?

Brand only PPVs do not work. They were terrible back when they did them, especially the Smackdown ones. Good God the SD ppvs were so bad. All filler no killer.
 
McMahon thinks he knows what the crowds want, and they probably feel pressure to keep the stock proftiable, since the McMahons are majority stockholders, they make tens of millions every quarter due to dividends.
 
[quote name='Blackout']I think the IC and Women's title is up for grabs too.

Is it just me, or does it seem like WM25 has zero hype? There's no matches buildup, no famous people being there, and there doesn't seem to be any "classic" stuff going down.

Why is WWE so reluctant to make their shows different from one another? Why don't they have shows battling each other out? Why is there no Outsiders like stuff taking place on the shows?

Brand only PPVs do not work. They were terrible back when they did them, especially the Smackdown ones. Good God the SD ppvs were so bad. All filler no killer.[/QUOTE]

Seems like the creative team is only working one month at a time.

I didn't mind the SD PPVs. At bare minimum, the tag match would always be worth watching.
 
NWO Predictions:

World Title Elimination Chamber = Cena (yawn) retains
WWE Title Elimination Chamber = Edge retains
HBK vs JBL = Ref gets knocked out, JBL knocks HBK out with chair, JBL puts chair in HBK's hands, JBL falls over, ref comes to and gives HBK an DQ for using a weapon.
Swagger vs Finlay (ECW Title) = Swagger retains
Randy The Amazing Viper Orton vs Shane McMahon = Shane does crazy stunt, Steph turns on Shane, Orton wins

Added unannounced/unadvertised matches... just a guess:
Mizorrison vs Cryme Time (Tag Titles) = Mizorrison wins.
Shelton Benjamin vs R-Truth (US Title) = Shelton wins.
Bret Favre vs Uninflated Football = Uninflated Football wins after Favre tries to use his bad arm to do a elbow drop on the football. ;)
 
[quote name='Blackout']I think the IC and Women's title is up for grabs too.[/quote]

There is already a Women's title match planned for RAW this Monday. Pretty bad to waste what could of been a decent PPV match on the following RAW.

Is it just me, or does it seem like WM25 has zero hype? There's no matches buildup, no famous people being there, and there doesn't seem to be any "classic" stuff going down.

Last year's Mania had the same feel to it at this point of time. Minus the hype of Big Show vs Floyd Mayweather Jr.
 
Looks like they will be setting up Edge/Matt vs. Jeff/Christian now :D

I'm going to say Triple H wins and it ends up being HHH/Orton at Wrestlemania :D

Also: HBK vs. Cena, Undertaker vs. Show vs. Kozlov
 
[quote name='diddy310']I'm going to say Triple H wins and it ends up being HHH/Orton at Wrestlemania :D[/QUOTE]

Oh god no......

*has a flashback of One Night Stand from last year*
 
Bitter Paul London interview:

Paul London gave False Count Radio his first post-WWE interview and he wasn't afraid to let loose. Here are some of the highlights of this near two hour interview:

When asked if he was shocked about his WWE release, London immediately said "no", but was shocked that they were still paying him. Also felt it was an "opportune time to part ways."

London strongly disliked his theme music. "I tried to get that s--- changed so many times to some good music," he said. "They kept low-balling my buddy's music." London said he wanted some real music, but WWE officials kept put off talking to his friends about composing a new theme.

London said that he never liked Billy Kidman as a person, but admired his work in WCW "when he was 100 pounds lighter." On how they were put together, London said it was because they have both have dark hair, well-tanned, and like to go on the top rope. "Hey, let's make a tag team out of these guys," London said. London also said he lost respect for Kidman, claiming that he "threw me under the bus to keep himself over with the boys."

"The Albert Einstein of Pro Wrestling" Alex asked London how it was working with the Dudleyz, in which London stated that D-Von was great to work with, but Bubba was cool "maybe five percent of the time." He added: "I'm not saying anything new that he's an a-----."

A caller asks what the reasoning was for him smiling on the day Mr. McMahon "died." London discusses how hard it was not to laugh at the whole thing. "I had no clue what was going on. I had no idea this guy was going to his 'destruction' or 'demise'," London said. London adds they were told just to react to Vince when he came walking down the hallway to the parking lot. "Everyone trying to put on their best acting face, which was a joke," he said. London believes McMahon held a personal vendetta against him from that day forward, even giving Evan Bourne the Shooting Star Press as a result.

A caller asks him what he thinks of Evan Bourne using the shooting star press, to which London replies that "it's ridiculous and it's pretty funny." London also quips, "So I guess he (McMahon) wanted a lackluster Shooting Star." He also joked that someone in creative probably watched the "Bourne" movie trilogy and decided it would be a good idea to give Matt Sydal the Evan Bourne name. London says he's half his weight and looks like "Circus of gay." London adds Bourne means "carried" if you look it up in the dictionary.

London says that Rob Van Dam would be his dream opponent, as he not only idolizes the wrestler, but also the person.

London starts ranting on Matt Hardy during a discussion of the 2006 Armageddon featuring London & Kendrick vs. William Regal & Dave Taylor vs. MNM vs. the Hardy Boys in a ladder match. "All I remember was that I hate Matt Hardy," London said on the False Count radio show. "I think he's a piece of s---. And I was trying to go into that (match) with as much of a professional mindset as possible without trying to murder this person. I think he's a coward."

London then recalls a story regarding his perspective on Hardy as he once told him on him in catering, as if the situation were from a high school cafeteria. "I said a cuss word in catering and he actually raised his hand and told on me," London said.

London rants on Hardy more: "The thing with Matt is no respect. Just a rotten person. He tries to pull the wool over people's eyes and put himself over online, but he's the definition of a mark for himself. I just don't like the guy. He's done some things to try to sabotage my career, without going into detail, but (he is) the definition of a coward."

On the other hand, London's favorite match of his career was against his brother Jeff at a house show in Mexico "that was never seen." "Jeff and I went out there on the last day (of the tour) and stole the show," London said. "Jeff's the cool one and Matt's the fat, ugly one who carries a chip on his shoulder because his brother is more popular than him," London claimed.

London is asked if he plans on training wrestlers, to which London said he would like to in the future.

Paul London commented on Brian Kendrick and their tag team work on Smackdown. He said said he understands why they were split up because Kendrick didn't want to be associated with his out-spoken nature and be dragged down by it. He's happy for him on SmackDown, but sadly sees Kendrick's singles push as a vehicle for getting over Ezekiel Jackson. "Haven't always seen eye-to-eye, but that's what made us a dynamic unit," London said. "I wish him success. I'm sorry to see his push has been replaced by Casper, but I'm sure he's not surprised. It really seemed like a vehicle to get over (Ezekiel) Jackson." London has trouble remembering Jackson's first name.

London addressed online rumors of going to TNA as the Suicide video game character, saying they're "not true." London said he didn't even know about the character, and that he has not been in contact with TNA. London jokingly says he wants to come into TNA as "Life", so Suicide will have a feud.

London is then asked about his relationship with former WWE Diva Ashley Massaro. He said "relationships end" and they were "under such a strangehold schedule that is the wrestling business."

London continued: "Relationships are very difficult. She's an extremely nice girl, good head on her shoulders, and has massive amount of potential, but life can be schedule. I have no ill-feelings whatsoever. People grow and do what they have to do."

They then go into word association on the likes of John Cena, Randy Orton and Triple H. Regarding John Cena, London called him the "hardest-working person in the business." He starts laughing hard after recalling watching the the trailer for "12 Rounds" where Cena plays a cop.

On Randy Orton, he said he's a "super cool guy" and "probably the most talented guy they have by far."

On the other hand, London isn't too fond of Triple H as he calls him the complete opposite of what he said about Orton. "If I had to guess, I would guess that he's not the most honest guy, a bit of a coward, and when I say coward, I mean someone who might secretly set something up, and then blame it someone else," London said.

When it comes to Vince McMahon, London slowly said: "Darkness. Black. All things negative. Not really in tune with the audience. Someone who has cemented himself in his own ways regardless of whether they're beneficial for business. Fascist."

JT Evans asks London what the fans can expect in his PWG debut, which London replies "an uncensored, unrestrained spirit...the fans can look forward to honesty".

I can post audio if desired.
 
Geez, somebody's bitter. Also, Matt Sydal has a "lackluster" SSP? Could have fooled me. His is one of the cleanest, most picture-perfect executions in the business.
 
Hardy's gone. I really want to think that Undertaker will get it, but I know better. :shame:

Though Taz just meant to say "Jeff Hardy out", but he accidentally said Triple H and caught himself.. could they actually give UT the belt?

//edit: Of course not.
 
Bah gawd, 13 times.

Also, I agree that Sydal's SSP is better than London's. I like London, but he does seem better. Then again, I like Matt Hardy, too, but he has gotten chubby and does come off as kind of a douche.
 
Matt Hardy seems like the kind of guy who'd be cool as long as you stayed on his good side, but once you do something to piss him off, you're on his shit list for life.
 
bread's done
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