Wasteland 2 "pre-order" - $15 on Kickstarter

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Wasteland is the 1988 predecessor of the Fallout Series, and Brian Fargo who originally created both Wasteland and Fallout has announced Wasteland 2 via Kickstarter. In just 2 days, they've already surpassed the $900,000 goal to produce the game, so it will definitely get made. Obviously, there is no release date at this time and don't expect to get it any time soon.

For $15, you get a digital copy of the game. I expect it will be at least double that on Steam when it comes out, if not your typical $59.99. I think using Kickstarter to fund the production of a game and thereby bypassing the influence exerted by the mega-studios is the coolest concept. Now Wasteland 2 will be developed completely for the fans rather than being watered down for a mainstream CoD/Halo audience. Love it!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2
 
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[quote name='Panther Cat']The original game came with an instruction manual that you pretty much had to read to learn how to play the game. (It came out when games typically did not have in-game tutorials.) I strongly suggest finding the manual online.[/QUOTE]

Oh - those were the days. No hand-holding and being thrown to the wolves. I remember opening computer boxes and reading novels on how to play the game while having the disks in my hand, anxiously waiting to play.

To be honest - I don't necessarily miss that part of gaming. Games these days do an excellent job of making the learning process pretty intuitive or easy to access. This shouldn't be confused with "dumbing-down" a game.
 
Looks interesting. Having played the first two Fallout games I kind of know what to expect. After playing games like Fallout 3 and New Vegas though, I'd prefer if it was a real-time game rather than turn based- turn based just feels a little outdated (some turn based games are still fun, but others not so much). It doesn't have to be an FPS, I'd be cool with top down, third person, or multiple perspectives. Definitely going to watch it for a while before contributing.
 
[quote name='CatEyes']I started Wasteland last night for the first time after hearing about this. The game is absolutely brutal. I played for almost two hours and still don't know how to heal, or really what to do at all. [/QUOTE]

You can heal either by visiting a doctor or just spending time somewhere (Hit the space bar). You don't want to do the latter in an area where you get random combat though. Head to the rail camp or the summer camp, enter and then just space until you're healed. Later you get first aid kits and skills that will help.
 
[quote name='kramer0731']Did anyone ever play "Fountain of Dreams?" That was always what I thought Wasteland "2" to be - so I'm a bit confused by this. [/QUOTE]

Yeah, EA tried to proclaim that it was the sequel prior to its release but since no one at Interplay actually worked on it, that didn't go over well.
 
They just hit 1.1 million (still with another 30+ days on the clock). At 1.5 million they add Linux support and make the world even larger.
 
im still debating on this. $15 is asking a bit considering ive never played the first one, but i may do it.... seems like a good cause.... I do like the idea though.
 
[quote name='bojay1997']I know there was a huge issue when some marketing firms tried to start a similar fund raiser to buy Pabst Blue Ribbon and the IRS ordered them to stop. Even though they made it clear they were just providing a mock "stock" certificate acknowledging the donation (i.e. it couldn't be traded or exchanged for cash or other value) and cases of beer, the IRS still found it to be a violation.[/QUOTE]
For the PBR thing, they were offering ownership in the company:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/12/10/news/companies/pbr_pabst_blue_ribbon.fortune/index.htm
If the collective raises enough money, Migliozzi says contributors will get enough beer to match their pledges and ownership in the company.
Click to expand...

They were just collecting pledges though, they never got enough pledges to actually start collecting money. But pledges were enough for the SEC (not IRS).



The difference with Kickstarter? This article points it out:
http://www.compliancebuilding.com/2011/06/09/crowdsourcing-the-purchase-of-a-beer-company/
So how does Kickstarter not violate Securities Law? Those projects involve selling a product, not selling securities. I pledged for a trebuchette project on Kickstarter. I get two of the Trebuchettes; I don’t get an interest in the company making the product.
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Someone at Capcom needs to get a kickstarter started for Megaman Legends 3 and bring that project back to life. I would love to see how quickly that project would be funded...
 
[quote name='GaveUpTomorrow']Someone at Capcom needs to get a kickstarter started for Megaman Legends 3 and bring that project back to life. I would love to see how quickly that project would be funded...[/QUOTE]

Uh Capcom is not exactly some guy living in his mom's basement. They aren't wanting for money so they really should not be doing Kickstarter.

What the companies need to be taking from this trend is not that they need to be asking people for money up front, but rather that there is a market for niche games and if you keep the budget under control you can make a profit with them. They need to realize that not every game needs to be a huge budget production that appeals to the lowest common denominator.
 
21c6z4z.jpg
 
[quote name='marsilies']For the PBR thing, they were offering ownership in the company:
http://money.cnn.com/2009/12/10/news/companies/pbr_pabst_blue_ribbon.fortune/index.htm


They were just collecting pledges though, they never got enough pledges to actually start collecting money. But pledges were enough for the SEC (not IRS).



The difference with Kickstarter? This article points it out:
http://www.compliancebuilding.com/2011/06/09/crowdsourcing-the-purchase-of-a-beer-company/[/QUOTE]

I still think there really isn't that much difference and I suspect the SEC may take greater interest in these types of ventures as they get larger and more frequent. You are pledging through Kickstarter to support the development of a product that doesn't exist by a company which has been engaged in the video game business for a long time. You're also supporting a privately held business that would need to comply with security registration requirements to accept any kind of cash investment from virtually anyone if they did so through any other means. The only thing a private business can really take from private investors without securities registration is a loan with market interest and a repayment schedule. This seems like a clever way to skirt securities laws by giving people who invest in the game the game itself plus other items which have cash value if resold. I think that's a very thin and potentially hazardous line to tread as I don't think Kickstarter was ever designed to be a replacement for traditional means of raising capital for existing privately held businesses. In any event, it will be interesting to see how this turns out.
 
[quote name='bojay1997']I still think there really isn't that much difference and I suspect the SEC may take greater interest in these types of ventures as they get larger and more frequent. [/QUOTE]

According to wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowd_funding#Legal_regulation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securities_and_Exchange_Commission_v._W._J._Howey_Co.
a transaction constitutes an investment contract (therefore a security) if there is (1) an exchange of money (2) with an expectation of profits arising (3) from a common enterprise (4) which depends solely on the efforts of a promoter or third party. Clearly, under this standard, any crowd sourcing arrangement in which people are asked to contribute money in exchange for potential profits based on the work of others would be considered a security
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Kickstarters don't promise a profit, thus don't fulfill criteria 2, and thus aren't a security, meaning the SEC won't ever take an interest.

Also, for-profit companies can take straight up gifts of money. This is legal, but not very common, since most people won't give money unless it's for something charitable or they get something in return.
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100614192838AAeHKpb
http://smallbusinessonlinecommunity.bankofamerica.com/thread/4276

A kickstarter donation with a reward is more akin to a pre-order, and pre-orders have been made available before a product has been made. The backers could potentially ask for a refund if what they were promised was never delivered, and sue the company if refunds aren't offered.

Either as a gift or pre-order, the companies in question still have to report the kickstarter money as taxable income.
 
More news on the old school Kickstarter front: some former Bioware employees (from the old days) will launch a kickstarter for the Banner Saga, a turn-based tactical strategy/RPG hybrid (including multiplayer) tomorrow.

Interview with more information here. I'll post a link to their kickstarter when it goes live unless someone beats me to the punch.
 
[quote name='Mooby']More news on the old school Kickstarter front: some former Bioware employees (from the old days) will launch a kickstarter for the Banner Saga, a turn-based tactical strategy/RPG hybrid (including multiplayer) tomorrow.

Interview with more information here. I'll post a link to their kickstarter when it goes live unless someone beats me to the punch.[/QUOTE]

I love Tactical RPG. I'll support them too :)
 
The lower tiers seem very reasonable. Only $10 for a copy of the game.* $25 is a special edition with a digital art book. For $50 they'll put a crest you design into the game where it can be picked in multiplayer to represent a player's faction, etc.

*Slight clarification: Looks like you only get Chapter One with the $10 -- looks like it might be episodic? Dunno.
 
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I don't know what to make of this. Fargo's latest amount of games has been... less than stellar. I've liked Bard's Tale and Hunted well enough... but there's no portfolio here that proves these guys can deliver a product of sufficient quality. The enthusiasm comes through on the video but, to be honest, it sounds so tailored for the jaded "consoles suck casuals suck" fan that I can't help but take it as more manufactured than an earnest plea.

Basically, while I love Mark Morgan and the names are big enough, there's no pitch here but an idea and there's nothing I hate more in indie gaming than paying for ideas without sufficient development effort to back them up. We've all seen what happens when rock star developers coast on name recognition and fan goodwill and don't have what it takes to deliver when the crunch happens.

I mean, we don't even have a mockup of what the game even is going to look like when it releases. And I don't mean graphics-wise, I mean GUI/gameplay concepts-wise. I guess he's coming to "us" for some of that, but there's absolutely nothing I would want to crowdsource less than something like this to the sort of troglodytes who engage in daily EA hates whining about "casuals" and "console kids"

My caterwauling won't change anything, but this does not strike me as "saving gaming" or anything of the sort. Maybe if the game turns out to be exceptional but we have next to no way of knowing that.
 
Fountain of Dreams took the Wasteland system but that was really where the similarities end. Wasteland is a far FAR better game. I do like to tease a friend of mine who is a Wasteland fanatic by calling it Wasteland 2.

[quote name='kramer0731']Did anyone ever play "Fountain of Dreams?" That was always what I thought Wasteland "2" to be - so I'm a bit confused by this. Here's a small tidbit about it on Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasteland_%28video_game%29

Played it a bit and it wasn't bad. Still the original Wasteland was awesome![/QUOTE]
 
[quote name='Mooby']The lower tiers seem very reasonable. Only $10 for a copy of the game.* $25 is a special edition with a digital art book. For $50 they'll put a crest you design into the game where it can be picked in multiplayer to represent a player's faction, etc.

*Slight clarification: Looks like you only get Chapter One with the $10 -- looks like it might be episodic? Dunno.[/QUOTE]

Chapters? Count me out. It's likely to go the way of Winter Voices and fold the project before it completes.

Also, their page has a whole lot of hoopla and pictures and pomp and circumstance and that's all well and good but there is no projected release date and no clarification on the chapter thing.

They can't even promise Steam keys yet, just 'we're working on it'. Um, why don't they work stuff like that and a projected timeline out before putting it on kickstarter.

I feel like everyone and their grandma saw Double Fine make a bundle and now ever game person who some cool rad idea and some sketches is suddenly doing a Kickstarter.

Sooner or later one of these projects is going to go down like the Titanic.
 
I agree with you that Kickstart is in no way is it saving gaming. I expect Kickstarter will be a bygone fad in the future when the inevitable happens and one of these big projects wastes all the cash and produces nothing but a bunch of lawsuits.

That said, I would certainly not categorize Brian Fargo as a "rockstar developer". He founded Interplay back in the early 80s. When games such as The Bard's Tale (The original) and Wasteland came out they were still a small company with few employees doing all the work, Fargo included. So he knew exactly what it took to produce a quality product back then. Does he now? That I can't say. But with the stated mission of making an "old school" style RPG and his massive portfolio of classic RPGs that he and the others had a BIG hand in designing, I will take that risk. Hell they could produce a game with the exact same system and graphics of the original (Even the inferior PC version) and I'd be perfectly happy with that.

[quote name='RollingSkull']I don't know what to make of this. Fargo's latest amount of games has been... less than stellar. I've liked Bard's Tale and Hunted well enough... but there's no portfolio here that proves these guys can deliver a product of sufficient quality. The enthusiasm comes through on the video but, to be honest, it sounds so tailored for the jaded "consoles suck casuals suck" fan that I can't help but take it as more manufactured than an earnest plea.

Basically, while I love Mark Morgan and the names are big enough, there's no pitch here but an idea and there's nothing I hate more in indie gaming than paying for ideas without sufficient development effort to back them up. We've all seen what happens when rock star developers coast on name recognition and fan goodwill and don't have what it takes to deliver when the crunch happens.

I mean, we don't even have a mockup of what the game even is going to look like when it releases. And I don't mean graphics-wise, I mean GUI/gameplay concepts-wise. I guess he's coming to "us" for some of that, but there's absolutely nothing I would want to crowdsource less than something like this to the sort of troglodytes who engage in daily EA hates whining about "casuals" and "console kids"

My caterwauling won't change anything, but this does not strike me as "saving gaming" or anything of the sort. Maybe if the game turns out to be exceptional but we have next to no way of knowing that.[/QUOTE]
 
I "pre-ordered" via Kickstarter at $250. Nothing significant from the $150 to $250 levels, but I know it will make the game better for everyone.

Seems like a lot, but that is less than $1 per month of being a Wasteland fan. Plus, I get a chance to kill children again in a game because there is no publisher limiting moral decisions. :cool:

[quote name='crowbb']Fountain of Dreams took the Wasteland system but that was really where the similarities end. Wasteland is a far FAR better game. I do like to tease a friend of mine who is a Wasteland fanatic by calling it Wasteland 2.[/QUOTE]

I just incidentally started playing Fountain of Dreams last year. To clarify, Fountain of Dreams didn't even use the same engine, supposedly. EA wrote a new engine to act mostly identical to Wasteland (but I guess they ignored some things). I think this is why the game is deficient in many ways.
 
[quote name='AcidRain25']The Banner Saga went live on Kickstarter. An animated tactical RPG with a mature story... count me in.[/QUOTE]

I'm upset that neither Banner Saga nor FTL offer a DRM-free, physical media option.

Since I first heard about assurance contracts and dominant assurance contracts years ago, I've always considered physical media to be the best way to distinguish backers from the masses in a post-copyright world. Posters and t-shirts don't count :???:
 
I'm only going to support ones that I find worthy, didn't support double fine, because I don't like point and click adv. games, never have, if he would have said, any amount over $1.5 million and we'll start development on Psychonauts 2 and I woulda dropped dime in a second.

For this one, not only do I get a game that sounds like two games I like Fallout 1 and Crusader but I get a boxed copy and no drm digital copy, what was not to like there.

As far as these other charlatans jumping on, good luck, soon people will start getting stingy with the pledges and some of these fly by nights will die on the vine, like they should.

Still going to be a long wait for Wasteland 2 though....
 
Also, I forgot to be that guy again, but this is STILL not a deal. If Doublefine wasn't, this isn't.

Not that I'm THAT annoyed to see it up here. The Steam, Iphone, and XBL threads are definitely half gamer culture wankfest and I definitely participate in those. There's room on this board for the price-related gaming oddities without crowding off the front page.

But yeah, not a deal.
 
$15 for a Fallout-scale new release? If it launches at full price its practically "preorder for 75% off."

I can appreciate what this is doing. Have $15.
 
[quote name='RollingSkull']Also, I forgot to be that guy again, but this is STILL not a deal. If Doublefine wasn't, this isn't.

Not that I'm THAT annoyed to see it up here. The Steam, Iphone, and XBL threads are definitely half gamer culture wankfest and I definitely participate in those. There's room on this board for the price-related gaming oddities without crowding off the front page.

But yeah, not a deal.[/QUOTE]

It's $15 now and will be more than that when it releases. I'd say it's a deal.
 
Well I finished Wasteland and thought it was fantastic. I honestly liked it better than the Fallouts. Very eager to support the sequel now. As long as it doesn't stray I'm sure it'll be great.

Looks like you only get Chapter One with the $10 -- looks like it might be episodic? Dunno.
Click to expand...

From what I understood only the novella will be episodic, not the game itself. With enough funding it should release as a full game.
 
inXile has added an option to pledge via Paypal on their site:
http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/pledge.php

PayPal Terms & Conditions

  • Unlike Kickstarter, PayPal will debit your account immediately. Please ensure you have all funds available. Since the Kickstarter project is 100% funded, development of Wasteland 2 is assured. Had we not been 100% funded through Kickstarter, these donate buttons would not have been possible.
  • International orders must choose from the option for shipment to International destinations if you will be receiving any physical rewards. A $15 US additional charge has been added for shipping and handling.
  • Unlike Kickstarter, we are not able to compound multiple donations to achieve a reward at a higher tier. The donation you are making now can not be increased at a later date. Please ensure the reward tier you are donating to is your definite choice of support.
  • We are unable to provide donation rewards beyond the $500 tier through PayPal. For rewards beyond $500, you will need to place your donation through Kickstarter.
  • If you have any questions, please contact inXile entertainment through our online support form.
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='Slim Gatsby']$15 for a Fallout-scale new release? If it launches at full price its practically "preorder for 75% off." [/QUOTE]

This is what I don't get. Is this game supposed to be a full-priced game? Or is it more of a budget release floating on nostalgia? Are we expecting polygons or pixel art?
 
[quote name='Mr.']This is what I don't get. Is this game supposed to be a full-priced game? Or is it more of a budget release floating on nostalgia? Are we expecting polygons or pixel art?[/QUOTE]

I don't think anyone knows for sure. Even at over a million dollars, you're not going to get the same production values as a game like Fallout 3 that cost many millions to create, especially with a small team and only 18 months to work. It still could be great, but everyone speculating that this is somehow going to be a $60 full retail release is engaged in pure speculation and possibly delusion.
 
By 'Fallout-scale' I'm assuming people mean Fallout 1. Not Fallout 3... as the video jokes with that 'publisher' remarking: "There was a Fallout 1 and 2?!?!" My best guess is you're going to see some fairly polished isometric art (you can still make a good looking game inexpensively like Torchlight) and costs can be saved by dispensing with voice acting, etc. I doubt it will be more than $30ish at release.

What you should expect: a more polished/visually pleasing/updated version of Fallout 1, 2, Lionheart, etc.

What you should NOT expect: Fallout 3, Mass Effect, etc.

The game is about substance over form.
 
Man, if I only had an extra $2500 laying around, I would definitely do that so that I can get my name in the game. I want a statue of me.

But, I went ahead and gave my share. I want to play the game and relieve my days of playing the game.
 
[quote name='Mooby']The game is about substance over form.[/QUOTE]

Oddly enough, so many retro games ARE about form over substance.

And I'll just ignore the insinuation that Mass Effect and Fallout 3 are lacking in substance.
 
[quote name='Os Money']im still debating on this. $15 is asking a bit considering ive never played the first one, but i may do it.... seems like a good cause.... I do like the idea though.[/QUOTE]
Did you play Fallout 1 & 2? Think of Wasteland as Fallout 0.


[quote name='keithp']
21c6z4z.jpg
[/QUOTE]

That would have been Read Paragraph 101
 
[quote name='uncle5555']I'm only going to support ones that I find worthy, didn't support double fine, because I don't like point and click adv. games, never have, if he would have said, any amount over $1.5 million and we'll start development on Psychonauts 2 and I woulda dropped dime in a second.

For this one, not only do I get a game that sounds like two games I like Fallout 1 and Crusader but I get a boxed copy and no drm digital copy, what was not to like there. [/QUOTE]
I wish double fine offered boxed version at $60 then I would have pledged more.

Now I am hoping they will have extra boxed version to sell after it's released
 
[quote name='ianoid']I'd pledge if I could be sure of an iPad or console version. Lame, I know. I don't play on computers.[/QUOTE]

There might be a tablet version if they get enough money, but don't look for a console version. The size of the audience for a console port wouldn't really justify the expense; moreover, the control that the Big 3 exert over software released for their consoles ensures that Fargo et al. are unlikely to bother trying to jump through their hoops. After all, the whole point of crowdsource funding this game was to ensure that the developers had ultimate control over the product, and if you can't put certain features in or must put others in because Microsoft, Sony, or Nintendo demand it be that way, you can hardly say that you're not caving to publisher demands at that point.
 
So I pledged $50 to get a physical box and manual, like the good old days.

I also messaged inXile to create a PROPER Bard's Tale remake through Kickstarter. I urge you to do the same.
 
New interview with Brian that's really excellent!

As far as a console version, he's said about 99% sure it won't happen, so don't count on it. iPad is a maybe, but would have to come later because he's making it for the PC fans that grew up on the old-school RPGs first and foremost. Hooray!! :applause:
 
The Kickstarter has broken $2 million.

New update with info on what will be added when they hit $2.1 million, $2.5 million, and $3 million.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2/posts/202023

Also of possible interest to Wasteland/Fallout fans is GOG is giving away the original Fallout for the next 48 hours:
[quote name='CrossFireXT17']Witcher dev giving away "legendary" PC RPG free on GOG.com on Thursday

Free game is Fallout 1
Link: http://www.gog.com/en/gamecard/fallout/[/QUOTE]
 
InXile has announced a new all-digital rewards tier, of special interest to international customers that don't want to deal with shipping charges, customs or VAT:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/inxile/wasteland-2/posts/202818
Update #9: New Reward Tier Announced
Posted 24 minutes ago
As our Kickstarter continues to build momentum, we will keep focusing on how we can best deliver what our fans want. We've seen quite a few messages from our international fans expressing concern with the cost of shipping and physical goods relating to VAT and customs costs. For that reason, we opened up a purely digital pledge level at $55 that contains no physical items. You will get the digital copy of the game, digital soundtrack, digital novellas 1 and 2, digital concept art book and early beta access.
Click to expand...

Also, InXile is taking Paypal donations on their site, of interest to international customers that can't use Amazon Payments on Kickstarter:
http://wasteland.inxile-entertainment.com/pledge.php
 
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