Xbox One on the way. DRM removed, more details to come.

[Donut2922]

MS changing their tunes actually has me open to buying the console again down the line.

I was not going to buy an Xbox at all with the DRM measures. So I disagree with the posters claiming MS couldn't win either way. More importantly as others pointed out, MS proved now what many theorized all along: that the DRM features can be switched on/off (despite it being claimed they couldn't). The fact that they are turning it off for launch makes me hesitant that they will turn it back on down the line. Then again, this is CAG so at some point when a crazy deal comes along for the X1 I'll probably jump on it assuming their exclusives are worth playing again (Gears of War needs to fix MP gameplay).

It's easy to point out the Sony vs. MS fanboy arguing in this thread but it's the consequence of bad PR. People complain. That's what we do. What else is new.

 

[WV Matsui]

Some outlets are saying that the X1 will launch on Nov 27 which is the day before Thanksgiving. Amazon is the only or with that date and they updated everything to that date last night. Who knows of its true or not.

They have added Day One editions of all the X1 first party games which will come with exclusive content.

I preordered Rivals, Ryse, Forza, BF4 and Madden.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

Why are we even having this PSPGo semantics discussion? Ashane swerved to it to hide his butthurt over the "loss" of the family plan and y'all are playing right into it.

i doudt family plan is fully gone i can very well see it coming back with digital games only

The XBOX ONE does not come with a headset, correct? Seems like this should be a required accessory....oh well. I also read that ALL current gen headsets will NOT work with XBOX ONE. That sucks. I guess my Turtle Beach and DSS processing unit and going up on EBAY unless something changes. I suppose I could keep the DSS and assume a budget X1 headset will arrive.

At least give the Day 1 edition a headset....that would be a nice bonus rather than a stupid LE controller that says DAY ONE on it.

3rd party things have already been announced that will allow the headsets to work

 

[dmaul1114]

You think everyone arguing is some Sony fanboy when that probably isn't the case. The reason I bitch about MS and not Sony is because Sony is not doing bat shit stupid things at the moment. MS is imo. So as soon as PS4 introduces stupid ass DRM, pay walls for things that should be free, mandatory spy cameras, or any other ridiculous ideas I will be the first to call them out on it, and I'm sure most everyone else will as well.

Exactly. The 360 was my most played console this gen by far, and I didn't get a PS3 until 2012 (and then only after ditching my 360 due to a hacking/banning debacle--see my blog here). I passed on the PS3 because I thought it was bat shit insane to pay $500-600 for a console (and really only the later as the 20gb model was near impossible to find).

I'm passing on the X1 for now as even with the DRM bullshit gone, I have no interest in Kinect and how it will likely get forced into games, and $500 is still way to much for a console for someone who is lucky to game 5-10 hours a week on consoles.

I have no loyalty to any of these companies. Every generation I see who has the combination of features, policies, games and pricing that best fits my priorities, interests and budget and buy those and skip the others. This generation Sony is off to the right start on those things for me, so I'll get a PS4 at launch. With DRM gone I may get an X1 down the road if I can justify it (i.e. if I start gaming more or there's a ton of must play type games for me on it).

 

[WV Matsui]

Is anyone else's Amazon preorder saying delivery of Dec 4?

 

[TimboSliceGB]

MS changing their tunes actually has me open to buying the console again down the line.

I was not going to buy an Xbox at all with the DRM measures. So I disagree with the posters claiming MS couldn't win either way. More importantly as others pointed out, MS proved now what many theorized all along: that the DRM features can be switched on/off (despite it being claimed they couldn't). The fact that they are turning it off for launch makes me hesitant that they will turn it back on down the line. Then again, this is CAG so at some point when a crazy deal comes along for the X1 I'll probably jump on it assuming their exclusives are worth playing again (Gears of War needs to fix MP gameplay).

It's easy to point out the Sony vs. MS fanboy arguing in this thread but it's the consequence of bad PR. People complain. That's what we do. What else is new.

well if it's that easy for ms to turn it on/off it's also easy for sony down the line to turn it on also. I really don't think this system gen last as long as the one that is about to end. I really think in 5-6 years we will have new systems that will be digital only or strict drm. hopefully by the time that happens the backbone of the worlds internet will be better that everyone will be fine with drm stuff and always on.

 

[Teh Reaper]

Is anyone else's Amazon preorder saying delivery of Dec 4?

lol bro it will change once they announce the release date. my ps4 says dec 31 2013 .

 

[TimboSliceGB]

Is anyone else's Amazon preorder saying delivery of Dec 4?

mine says nov 27th by 8 p.m plus just yesterday mine was nov 30th amazon loves to play around with dates when no date has been announced

 

[dmaul1114]

well if it's that easy for ms to turn it on/off it's also easy for sony down the line to turn it on also. I really don't think this system gen last as long as the one that is about to end. I really think in 5-6 years we will have new systems that will be digital only or strict drm. hopefully by the time that happens the backbone of the worlds internet will be better that everyone will be fine with drm stuff and always on.

For me it all comes down to price as I've said repeatedly. I'll never live outside of major cities, so internet access will never be an issue.

If I can get digital games for $20-30 or less within 6 months to a year of release, I'd fully embrace it as I'd spend about the same on gaming as I do now after selling every game I buy after finishing them--without the hassle of having to list and ship games.

But if games are still launching at $60 and staying $40+ for a long time I'd sit out a digital generation. Maybe just build a gaming PC finally since Steam pricing is already at the level I could accept.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

well if it's that easy for ms to turn it on/off it's also easy for sony down the line to turn it on also. I really don't think this system gen last as long as the one that is about to end. I really think in 5-6 years we will have new systems that will be digital only or strict drm. hopefully by the time that happens the backbone of the worlds internet will be better that everyone will be fine with drm stuff and always on.

For me it all comes down to price as I've said repeatedly. I'll never live outside of major cities, so internet access will never be an issue.

If I can get digital games for $20-30 or less within 6 months to a year of release, I'd fully embrace it as I'd spend about the same on gaming as I do now after selling every game I buy after finishing them--without the hassle of having to list and ship games.

But if games are still launching at $60 and staying $40+ for a long time I'd sit out a digital generation. Maybe just build a gaming PC finally since Steam pricing is already at the level I could accept.

i hear you on that i got my first gaming pc in feb and other day i calc out thanks to amazing prices on steam and amazon digital game deals i have saved close to 500 bucks on games by looking at the price of the game on ps3/360.

 

[TooPoor]

well if it's that easy for ms to turn it on/off it's also easy for sony down the line to turn it on also. I really don't think this system gen last as long as the one that is about to end. I really think in 5-6 years we will have new systems that will be digital only or strict drm. hopefully by the time that happens the backbone of the worlds internet will be better that everyone will be fine with drm stuff and always on.

For me it all comes down to price as I've said repeatedly. I'll never live outside of major cities, so internet access will never be an issue.

If I can get digital games for $20-30 or less within 6 months to a year of release, I'd fully embrace it as I'd spend about the same on gaming as I do now after selling every game I buy after finishing them--without the hassle of having to list and ship games.

But if games are still launching at $60 and staying $40+ for a long time I'd sit out a digital generation. Maybe just build a gaming PC finally since Steam pricing is already at the level I could accept.

You pay $20-$30 after reselling in this generation? That's way too much, you should be able to do it for under $4 for most games. And get to play it for two weeks unlike redbox.

This is why I hate digital, $20 sales is still too much without reselling, plus, I might the only one who enjoys looking at e wall of disc, picking out one, listen to the crack of the case, and switch disc, I enjoy it, as opposed Ito seeing it as a chore like most gamers do.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

kingdom hearts 3 is not a ps4 only game coming to xbox one

 

[PenguinMaster]

MS changing their tunes actually has me open to buying the console again down the line.

I was not going to buy an Xbox at all with the DRM measures. So I disagree with the posters claiming MS couldn't win either way. More importantly as others pointed out, MS proved now what many theorized all along: that the DRM features can be switched on/off (despite it being claimed they couldn't). The fact that they are turning it off for launch makes me hesitant that they will turn it back on down the line. Then again, this is CAG so at some point when a crazy deal comes along for the X1 I'll probably jump on it assuming their exclusives are worth playing again (Gears of War needs to fix MP gameplay).

It's easy to point out the Sony vs. MS fanboy arguing in this thread but it's the consequence of bad PR. People complain. That's what we do. What else is new.

well if it's that easy for ms to turn it on/off it's also easy for sony down the line to turn it on also. I really don't think this system gen last as long as the one that is about to end. I really think in 5-6 years we will have new systems that will be digital only or strict drm. hopefully by the time that happens the backbone of the worlds internet will be better that everyone will be fine with drm stuff and always on.

Even if either system "turns on" DRM in 5-6 years I don't see how it could affect the games that are already out. So I would at that point just have a system with 5-6 years of games and that's fine with me. It wouldn't make me regret my purchase of the system, I just wouldn't buy any more games for it.

EDIT: That seems poorly worded... I would be just as upset as I was when Microsoft announced the Xbox One would have DRM. But lack of future support for a system doesn't make me hesitate to get it.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

penguin master just a quick question will you stop being a gamer if in 5-6 years all systems that can play games have drm and all digital games?

sooner or later down the road people have to realize entertainment products like movies,music,video games will be 100 percent digital not anytime soon but i would say it's possible by 2020.

 

[PenguinMaster]

penguin master just a quick question will you stop being a gamer if in 5-6 years all systems that can play games have drm and all digital games?

I'll stop buying new games, I won't stop being a gamer. I would mostly play old games, but I'd probably pirate some new ones if it came to that.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

problem is alot of people can't handle change and are stubborn

i really want to see a steam box by end of 2014 that will really make sony and ms to do great digital deals

 

[PenguinMaster]

problem is alot of people can't handle change and are stubborn

Companies want to take away consumers ability to own anything and you think it's just about people being resistant to change? You should never voluntarily give any company that much control.

No company should have the ability to erase a product from existence.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

problem is alot of people can't handle change and are stubborn

Companies want to take away consumers ability to own anything and you think it's just about people being resistant to change? You should never voluntarily give any company that much control.

if you read the fine print on products you buy those companys still own rights to that product why do you think ms and sony can change the look of the product dashboard when ever they want and you can't say yes or no. nothing you buy physically you own 100 percent been that way for years.

 

[PenguinMaster]

problem is alot of people can't handle change and are stubborn

Companies want to take away consumers ability to own anything and you think it's just about people being resistant to change? You should never voluntarily give any company that much control.

if you read the fine print on products you buy those companys still own rights to that product why do you think ms and sony can change the look of the product dashboard when ever they want and you can't say yes or no. nothing you buy physically you own 100 percent been that way for years.

You absolutely can say no. If you want to continue using their online service you have to accept their updates but you always have the option of not using their service anymore and leaving your system as it is. The companies have control over their services, I accept that. I don't want everything to become a service instead of a good, if that happens companies can discontinue any game at any time and it will be erased from existence.

 

[dmaul1114]

You pay $20-$30 after reselling in this generation? That's way too much, you should be able to do it for under $4 for most games. And get to play it for two weeks unlike redbox.

This is why I hate digital, $20 sales is still too much without reselling, plus, I might the only one who enjoys looking at e wall of disc, picking out one, listen to the crack of the case, and switch disc, I enjoy it, as opposed Ito seeing it as a chore like most gamers do.

I just price things at the lowest current price on the Amazon marketplace so they sell fast as I honestly care more about just getting rid of the disc than making much money from it.

I also tend to buy games in the $30-40 range and not play them for a while, so buy the time I beat and sell them prices have fallen further so I usually only clear $10-15.

I don't view that as a chore--I view it as clutter. I'm OCD/neat freak type and just don't like having a bunch of shit around the condo. Especially things I'm not using like games I've already beaten and will never replay, or a huge backlog of games I'll never get through etc.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

you can still do digital games without having to connect to intenret = steam offline mode 

 

[PenguinMaster]

you can still do digital games without having to connect to intenret = steam offline mode

What if your computer stops working? If anything on Steam ever stops being supported then it can never be transferred to another computer or re-downloaded if you lose it. The same is true with all the download only games currently on XBLA or PSN... as long as your using the same console they will continue to work offline, but when support stops and your system breaks then you can never get the games again (nor can anyone).

With Steam it's even worse. You have to be online in order to activate offline mode and games could be removed from your library while online and they would no longer be playable offline.

 

[Monsta Mack]

the one question i would like to find answer to is how will frineds list work on xbox one will you be able to have poeple on your list that don't have a xbox one and party chat with them while they are using 360.

seeing you can hook up 360 in the hdmi in could you with easy switch from xbox one game to 360 game

Considering friends list would carry over, one would assume you could chat with them. I would assume the same for party chat.

Would really suck because a lot of my friends won't be getting XB1's day one, but rather after tax returns/late Spring when even more titles are out like Titanfall.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

you can still do digital games without having to connect to intenret = steam offline mode

What if your computer stops working? If anything on Steam ever stops being supported then it can never be transferred to another computer or re-downloaded if you lose it. The same is true with all the download only games currently on XBLA or PSN... as long as your using the same console they will continue to work offline, but when support stops and your system breaks then you can never get the games again (nor can anyone).

that's the problem with everything people looks at the worst thing possible. let me guess you buy all your music on on cd's also and all your movies on disc.

on steam and amazon digital games i pay like 10 bucks for alot of my games for 10 bucks i really don't care if 5-6 years down the road i can't play the game.

 

[PenguinMaster]

you can still do digital games without having to connect to intenret = steam offline mode

What if your computer stops working? If anything on Steam ever stops being supported then it can never be transferred to another computer or re-downloaded if you lose it. The same is true with all the download only games currently on XBLA or PSN... as long as your using the same console they will continue to work offline, but when support stops and your system breaks then you can never get the games again (nor can anyone).

that's the problem with everything people looks at the worst thing possible. let me guess you buy all your music on on cd's also and all your movies on disc.

Music is DRM-free as a download, no one can take it away. I buy a mixture of CDs and MP3s but I have them all backed up on 4 drives. I buy all my movies on Blu-ray.

It's not the worst possible it's inevitable. Steam will not last forever and when it isn't supported anymore everything will be lost. Any console that uses DRM will have a much shorter lifespan. I absolutely expect all XBLA and PSN games on current systems to be unsupported in 10 years and at that point they will no longer be available to anyone who didn't already have them downloaded and those people won't be able to get them again if something goes wrong with their system.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

you can still do digital games without having to connect to intenret = steam offline mode

What if your computer stops working? If anything on Steam ever stops being supported then it can never be transferred to another computer or re-downloaded if you lose it. The same is true with all the download only games currently on XBLA or PSN... as long as your using the same console they will continue to work offline, but when support stops and your system breaks then you can never get the games again (nor can anyone).

that's the problem with everything people looks at the worst thing possible. let me guess you buy all your music on on cd's also and all your movies on disc.

Music is DRM-free as a download, no one can take it away. I buy a mixture of CDs and MP3s but I have them all backed up on 4 drives. I buy all my movies on Blu-ray.

It's not the worst possible it's inevitable. Steam will not last forever and when it isn't supported anymore everything will be lost. Any console that uses DRM will have a much shorter lifespan. I absolutely expect all XBLA and PSN games on current systems to be unsupported in 10 years and at that point they will no longer be available to anyone who didn't already have them downloaded and those people won't be able to get them again if something goes wrong with their system.

what happens if you lose all those copys of that music? The place you got them from is no longer supported then you lose that music just saying it's the same thing so why bash gaming when you do the same with digital music.

 

[PenguinMaster]

you can still do digital games without having to connect to intenret = steam offline mode

What if your computer stops working? If anything on Steam ever stops being supported then it can never be transferred to another computer or re-downloaded if you lose it. The same is true with all the download only games currently on XBLA or PSN... as long as your using the same console they will continue to work offline, but when support stops and your system breaks then you can never get the games again (nor can anyone).

that's the problem with everything people looks at the worst thing possible. let me guess you buy all your music on on cd's also and all your movies on disc.

Music is DRM-free as a download, no one can take it away. I buy a mixture of CDs and MP3s but I have them all backed up on 4 drives. I buy all my movies on Blu-ray.

It's not the worst possible it's inevitable. Steam will not last forever and when it isn't supported anymore everything will be lost. Any console that uses DRM will have a much shorter lifespan. I absolutely expect all XBLA and PSN games on current systems to be unsupported in 10 years and at that point they will no longer be available to anyone who didn't already have them downloaded and those people won't be able to get them again if something goes wrong with their system.

what happens if you lose all those copys of that music? The place you got them from is no longer supported then you lose that music just saying it's the same thing so why bash gaming when you do the same with digital music.

Firstly I'm not putting the ability to take it away in anyone else's control. Secondly if music started being offered only as a download I would stop supporting the downloads. If I lose any of the music I have as a download I can just buy the CD. Often I do buy the CD when it gets cheaper anyway.

 

[Methoes]

Here is another good article... why you all haters should understand what you did!!!  "Now all we have is Xbox 360 2.0. How is this progress?"

LINK

 

[dmaul1114]

At least music can be backed up though.  I keep all my digital music on my home desktop, my work desktop and a couple different portable drives so it's pretty unlikely I'd lose all my back ups.  With digital games you can't make back up copies.

Also, it's pretty unlikely stores like Amazon or iTunes will every go out of business.  It's far more likely for a less mainstream company like Steam or MS's Xbox division to go under than those stores.

So I can see the point.  Personally, I don't care at all as I don't replay games and I don't mind spending $5-10 to download an old game on a virtual console on future systems if I do get the itch to replay an old favorite 10 years down the road or whatever.

 

[PenguinMaster]

So I can see the point. Personally, I don't care at all as I don't replay games and I don't mind spending $5-10 to download an old game on a virtual console on future systems if I do get the itch to replay an old favorite 10 years down the road or whatever.

This assumes that your old favorite is still popular enough to get a re-release on a new system.

 

[thenutman69321]

Here is another good article... why you all haters should understand what you did!!! "Now all we have is Xbox 360 2.0. How is this progress?"

LINK

Kept them from destroying ownership is what we did. I am extremely happy that we are getting an Xbox 360 2.0. Sorry some of you are getting butt hurt about some lost unneeded features. The only progress with the original plans for the Xbone was progressing into a gaming future where all prices are kept artificially high by MS.

That bolded quotes in the article are full of assumptions some of which are ridiculous pipe dreams IMO and in fact the writer of the article itself makes some very good points about why some of those quotes are assumptions and wrong. Did you actually read the article or just the bolded quotes from other people? The article itself is pretty fair and balanced but is definitely in favor of the removal of the DRM.

 

[dmaul1114]

So I can see the point. Personally, I don't care at all as I don't replay games and I don't mind spending $5-10 to download an old game on a virtual console on future systems if I do get the itch to replay an old favorite 10 years down the road or whatever.

This assumes that your old favorite is still popular enough to get a re-release on a new system.

Of course. But for me I wouldn't care as it's extremely rare that I ever want to replay a game. If I do it's just because I heard about it when it was released or on sale etc.--like the Zelda Oracle games I got for 3DS. I would have never gone looking for them, but they got advertised as releasing and on sale for $5 so I went ahead and grabbed them. Who knows when/if I'll get around to playing them though.

I can't keep up with the new releases I want to play even on one console, so I just don't have much desire to spend my limited gaming time replaying old games.

 

[PenguinMaster]

So I can see the point. Personally, I don't care at all as I don't replay games and I don't mind spending $5-10 to download an old game on a virtual console on future systems if I do get the itch to replay an old favorite 10 years down the road or whatever.

This assumes that your old favorite is still popular enough to get a re-release on a new system.

Of course. But for me I wouldn't care as it's extremely rare that I ever want to replay a game. If I do it's just because I heard about it when it was released or on sale etc.--like the Zelda Oracle games I got for 3DS. I would have never gone looking for them, but they got advertised as releasing and on sale for $5 so I went ahead and grabbed them. Who knows when/if I'll get around to playing them though.

I can't keep up with the new releases I want to play even on one console, so I just don't have much desire to spend my limited gaming time replaying old games.

But supporting DRM would be a selfish attitude. Because you're not interested in old games no one should be allowed to play them?

I don't mean to insinuate that you would be okay with this (unlike Timbo), I'm just illustrating a point.

 

[DNukem170]

It's much easier to re-download music files than to get back lost games.

 

[WV Matsui]

If folks are calling this the 360 2.0 then the exact same can be said for the PS3 2.0.

So idiotic.

 

[PenguinMaster]

If folks are calling this the 360 2.0 then the exact same can be said for the PS3 2.0.

So idiotic.

I think that's the point of their argument. They think that the Xbox One was going to be some amazing new invention while PS4 is more of the same (and now the Xbox One is as well).

 

[thenutman69321]

If folks are calling this the 360 2.0 then the exact same can be said for the PS3 2.0.

So idiotic.

I think most of the people starting with 360 2.0 are the ones mad about about the policy changes. I personally don't care what people call it, hell I've still been calling it the XBone even though I am definitely going to be buying one now.

 

[dmaul1114]

But supporting DRM would be a selfish attitude. Because you're not interested in old games no one should be allowed to play them?


I don't mean to insinuate that you would be okay with this (unlike Timbo), I'm just illustrating a point.

I don't like DRM, but I don't worry about others when making purchasing decisions. I vote with my wallet for products/services I deem worthy of it, and really couldn't care less what others do and how that effects them. We're talking luxuries like games, music etc., not essential goods or matters of life and death here.

For me, I can accept DRM when the price is right. I love the shit out of my Kindle and read a ton more because of the convenience of ebooks. And the DRM doesn't affect me as I don't lend stuff and didn't sell books anyway (just donated before each move).

Games would be the same for me if prices dropped reasonably. If I could pay the same I do now after selling every game after beating it, I'd happily by DRM games as it's the same hit to my wallet, no hassle with selling games, and no impact on me since I don't replay.

Sorry, not my concern that it sucks for collectors. In a perfect world they'd keep non-DRM disc games around for you guys and cheaper digital games for those of us who just want to pay what we deem a reasonable price for the experience of playing a game once. I doubt that's the way things will go after this generation though.

 

[PenguinMaster]

But supporting DRM would be a selfish attitude. Because you're not interested in old games no one should be allowed to play them?


I don't mean to insinuate that you would be okay with this (unlike Timbo), I'm just illustrating a point.

I don't like DRM, but I don't worry about others when making purchasing decisions. I vote with my wallet for products/services I deem worthy of it, and really couldn't care less what others do and how that effects them. We're talking luxuries like games, music etc., not essential goods or matters of life and death here.

For me, I can accept DRM when the price is right. I love the shit out of my Kindle and read a ton more because of the convenience of ebooks. And the DRM doesn't affect me as I don't lend stuff and didn't sell books anyway (just donated before each move).

Games would be the same for me if prices dropped reasonably. If I could pay the same I do now after selling every game after beating it, I'd happily by DRM games as it's the same hit to my wallet, no hassle with selling games, and no impact on me since I don't replay.

Sorry, not my concern that it sucks for collectors. In a perfect world they'd keep non-DRM disc games around for you guys and cheaper digital games for those of us who just want to pay what we deem a reasonable price for the experience of playing a game once. I doubt that's the way things will go after this generation though.

I'm a strong believer in preservation of the arts, and DRM puts an end to that.

 

[spatenfloot]

If folks are calling this the 360 2.0 then the exact same can be said for the PS3 2.0.

So idiotic.

I thought you said the PS4 was the Xbox 2.0....now I'm confused.

 

[bordjon]

Just my opinion on the DRM stuff. I'm by no means a hardcore gamer. I have gamed a whole lot over my life so far though - starting as a small child with a Sears model pong. I don't have the time or interest to devote to gaming like I use to. I have a wife, a 2.5 year old and another on the way. Looking back I have some great memories of gaming - alone and with friends. I don't have many of those old systems or games (well I do have a heafty collection of gb,bga,ds stuff I *have* saved for whatever reason.) I look more at my gaming now as an experience. It's often an experience I share with my nephew. It's making some great memories still. I guess I don't mind paying for an experience rather than a phsyical thing. I spend quite a bit of money on high end beer and liquor and drink it all away. Nothing physical to show for it really - just memories (maybe a photo or review here or there of it.) And I grew up a good little consumer in this culture of excess. I'm still pretty darn materialistic in a lot of ways but the loss of digital media that I've purchased over the years just doesn't bother me for some reason. I really can't think of a game that I would like to play that I can't. I've seeked out and found Moon Patrol and Gain Ground and it just wasn't the same. I put in an ungodly amount of hours in Ultima VI and such fond memories but going back to play it is just no fun. These old games still exist in some form and I'd be willing to bet most of the digital games on current systems will exist in some form 20 years from now. But if they aren't and my child can't play it and see what daddy was doing with his time 30 years ago then it's not the end of the world to me. The won't get to hear that INXS concert I went to in '87 either!

I'm a strong believer in preservation of the arts, and DRM puts an end to that.

If it's true art with true staying power - it's not going anywhere.

 

[pjb16]

But supporting DRM would be a selfish attitude. Because you're not interested in old games no one should be allowed to play them?


I don't mean to insinuate that you would be okay with this (unlike Timbo), I'm just illustrating a point.

I don't like DRM, but I don't worry about others when making purchasing decisions. I vote with my wallet for products/services I deem worthy of it, and really couldn't care less what others do and how that effects them. We're talking luxuries like games, music etc., not essential goods or matters of life and death here.

For me, I can accept DRM when the price is right. I love the shit out of my Kindle and read a ton more because of the convenience of ebooks. And the DRM doesn't affect me as I don't lend stuff and didn't sell books anyway (just donated before each move).

Games would be the same for me if prices dropped reasonably. If I could pay the same I do now after selling every game after beating it, I'd happily by DRM games as it's the same hit to my wallet, no hassle with selling games, and no impact on me since I don't replay.

Sorry, not my concern that it sucks for collectors. In a perfect world they'd keep non-DRM disc games around for you guys and cheaper digital games for those of us who just want to pay what we deem a reasonable price for the experience of playing a game once. I doubt that's the way things will go after this generation though.

I'm a strong believer in preservation of the arts, and DRM puts an end to that.

DRM doesn't automatically mean the end of preservation of the arts. One could even argue having digital copies of things provides much better chance of preservation as digital versions wouldn't be susceptible to wear and tear, aging, failing of components (cd drives or pcbs, power supplies, scratched discs, etc), couldn't be lost, couldn't be destroyed by traditional means (fire for example could easily put an end to preserved arts with no means to recover them).

I'm not saying digital is better (though in some instances it is IMO), but just because one possibility exists (the erasing of content) doesn't mean that is what will happen.

 

[dmaul1114]

I look more at my gaming now as an experience. It's often an experience I share with my nephew. It's making some great memories still. I guess I don't mind paying for an experience rather than a physical thing. I spend quite a bit of money on high end beer and liquor and drink it all away. Nothing physical to show for it really - just memories (maybe a photo or review here or there of it.) And I grew up a good little consumer in this culture of excess.

Other than not having kids (and never will), I'm much the same. I've gotten away from being as materialistic/consumeristic and more towards enjoying life by having great experiences and building great memories.

Possessions just bog us down, especially when my fiancee and I want to move around at least a time or two a decade to really experience different cities and countries.

So I'd much rather spend my money on trips, great meals, great beers etc. than owning stuff I don't really need. I'm buying a lot fewer movies, games etc. as even with that stuff I'd rather just experience a new movie in the theater or from Netflix than re-watch one of the 300 some I still have on the shelf.

Games renting would really make more sense for me I suppose, but I just don't play enough each month for Gamefly to come out cheaper than buying for me.

 

[PenguinMaster]

These old games still exist in some form and I'd be willing to bet most of the digital games on current systems will exist in some form 20 years from now. But if they aren't and my child can't play it and see what daddy was doing with his time 30 years ago then it's not the end of the world to me. The won't get to hear that INXS concert I went to in '87 either!

The old games still exist because they were on physical media and didn't have DRM. Your kids can't hear the INXS concert, but they can still hear the music on various formats. I think all video games, movies, music, tv shows, books, paintings, etc... should always be preserved. As long as no DRM was put into them in the first place all that has to happen for them to be preserved is for some of the original media to still be around, it costs the companies nothing.

 

[bordjon]

So do these game companies not have non-drm versions or source code that doesn't have drm in it? I don't know - I'm just asking - seems like you guys know a ton more than I do about that sort of stuff.

 

[PenguinMaster]

But supporting DRM would be a selfish attitude. Because you're not interested in old games no one should be allowed to play them?


I don't mean to insinuate that you would be okay with this (unlike Timbo), I'm just illustrating a point.

I don't like DRM, but I don't worry about others when making purchasing decisions. I vote with my wallet for products/services I deem worthy of it, and really couldn't care less what others do and how that effects them. We're talking luxuries like games, music etc., not essential goods or matters of life and death here.

For me, I can accept DRM when the price is right. I love the shit out of my Kindle and read a ton more because of the convenience of ebooks. And the DRM doesn't affect me as I don't lend stuff and didn't sell books anyway (just donated before each move).

Games would be the same for me if prices dropped reasonably. If I could pay the same I do now after selling every game after beating it, I'd happily by DRM games as it's the same hit to my wallet, no hassle with selling games, and no impact on me since I don't replay.

Sorry, not my concern that it sucks for collectors. In a perfect world they'd keep non-DRM disc games around for you guys and cheaper digital games for those of us who just want to pay what we deem a reasonable price for the experience of playing a game once. I doubt that's the way things will go after this generation though.

I'm a strong believer in preservation of the arts, and DRM puts an end to that.

DRM doesn't automatically mean the end of preservation of the arts. One could even argue having digital copies of things provides much better chance of preservation as digital versions wouldn't be susceptible to wear and tear, aging, failing of components (cd drives or pcbs, power supplies, scratched discs, etc), couldn't be lost, couldn't be destroyed by traditional means (fire for example could easily put an end to preserved arts with no means to recover them).

I'm not saying digital is better (though in some instances it is IMO), but just because one possibility exists doesn't (the erasing of content) mean that is what will happen.

Let's say a game on physical release only sells 10,000 copies... that's a very small number. All 10,000 copies would have to be destroyed for the game to stop existing. It's possible that may happen and I'm against any laws that prevent people from making personal copies as well, but it still puts the ability to keep that game in existence on those 10,000 people rather than on the whims of one company. Furthermore anything that requires an internet connection actually costs money for a company to keep it in existence so they will drop it as soon as it becomes unprofitable.

Additionally there is a likely a digital backup of the game on the company servers whether it is released physically or digital only, so there is no advantage for digital only.

So do these game companies not have non-drm versions or source code that doesn't have drm in it? I don't know - I'm just asking - seems like you guys know a ton more than I do about that sort of stuff.

They probably do, but I much rather have the general public be the ones in charge of keeping the game in existence. That way it's in the hands of devoted fans who want the game to survive, not a company who only cares about the money.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

Here is another good article... why you all haters should understand what you did!!! "Now all we have is Xbox 360 2.0. How is this progress?"

LINK

same thing could be said about ps4.

i think the shaing games in family plan will be their for if you buy digital games.

 

[dmaul1114]

Here is another good article... why you all haters should understand what you did!!! "Now all we have is Xbox 360 2.0. How is this progress?"

LINK

same thing could be said about ps4.

That's what people are saying. The Xbox 2.0 thing is people who wanted the DRM stuff, not having to have discs in and what not and now think it sucks and the X1 is just Xbox 360 2.0 and the PS4 is PS3 3.0 and no real innovation etc. etc.

People like myself who didn't want that stuff, care about being able to sell our games however we want etc. are super happy to be getting an Xbox 360 2.0 and PS3 2.0 because we're fine with how things are this gen and just want better graphics etc.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

only way i see digtal prices going down on sony and ms side is if we do see a steam box till then we will still see garbage digital game prices even if x1 did not change it's ways

 

[WV Matsui]

Basically what it really shows is that we truly didn't need a next generation. If you want to be upset at MS and Sony be upset a out that!