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CAGcast #150: Shipwreck Hates PS3, Killzone 2, and You!


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#61 tenchi

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 09:12 PM

I totally agree with Wombats mini-review of Dead Space. The game draws you in with the graphics and sounds. I especially like how they didn't clutter up the screen with a HUD and instead mapped your status, and ammo onto the character.

#62 LiK

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 09:13 PM

HAHA, just heard Wombat's Conduit interview. why does Wombat sound so giddy?
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#63 Wombat

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 09:21 PM

HAHA, just heard Wombat's Conduit interview. why does Wombat sound so giddy?


That was actually the second interview, for the first one I didn't hit record.

#64 TheEyecon

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 09:27 PM

Hell Yeah! 2 hours of CAGcast Awesomnes!!!
Congratulations on the 150 episodes!
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#65 nomp

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 09:38 PM

I laughed and I cried
with Episode 150
then wrote a haiku

SF4 is kinda disappointment. I still love SF3 on the ps3 with my stick and was hoping for good online for SF4 -- and the price to drop to the $30-40 range.

#66 MCalvert1

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 09:40 PM

Only listened to the first half hour, will finish tonight. I just wanted to chime in that the DC area meetup is this SATURDAY at 3pm, NOT SUNDAY. You got the 21st correct Cheapy, just not the day of the week. But I do appreciate the shout out for the meet anyway!

#67 LiK

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 09:44 PM

That was actually the second interview, for the first one I didn't hit record.


ahhh... :)
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#68 chewster777

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 09:49 PM

Wow Cheapy, I'm impressed that this Flower game got to you at the end. It's a game that looks like a neat concept, but not one I'd shell $10 out for. After hearing your comments though, I think I will definitely keep an eye on it. It sounds like a must play experience.

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#69 Sarang01

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 09:53 PM

Well I'm going to throw my thoughts in here. First I think you're exaggerating about the PS3 being DOOMED for 3rd parties if Killzone 2 doesn't sell spectacularly.
Firstly the RROD issue is a big issue, even for publishers. I've chatted with a friend who was BIG 360 and he has turned around about the PS3 and definitely acknowledges the problem. As part of the dev thing when I chatted with him he is noting with his contact or contacts that it seems the developer community is making the PS3 their platform of choice due to the RROD issue for one. Another is it's easier to port from PS3 to 360 and have like results I'm sure is another. I mean some of these devs. have to or I'm sure are already realizing that some of those 360 numbers are just inflated due to all the RROD syndromes.
Oh and if you're debating going mutiplatform with the PS3 exclusively you should check on the game. This is just my general advice. All things being equal it might have Lossless, be it 5.1 or 7.1. "The Darkness" has 7.1 and so does "Dark Sector" so why bother getting the 360 version of either?

In regards to "Flower" Cheapy, saying it's artistic as an exhibit in an art museum does NOT help it's case in the least. When you say that I think $10 is a rip. I regret paying what I did for "fl0w" considering I don't think I'll go back to playing it much.
To the devs. of "Flower" and "fl0w": If you're going for a minimalist design aesthetic with some trippy effects build in strong gameplay as well. Why do you think "Rez" was so successful? It wasn't just the design but that it had SOLID gameplay as well!
edit: Just to clarify my friend is overseas but devs. do talk between each other I'm sure.
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#70 thenexus6

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 09:57 PM

That bonus video

HAHA Great.

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#71 Porksta

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 09:57 PM

Another great job gents!
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#72 ChibiJosh

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 10:01 PM

I didn't remember hearing any fart sound last time, but that is spot on with Mario's jumping noise. Frighteningly so, even.
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#73 oxidative

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 10:10 PM

Great show this week!

Can anyone tell me why Mighty Muggs are so expensive?? They're essentially just a simple plastic mold that is painted with whatever character likeness is required. I can buy a Transformer for ~$10 that is well articulated and transforms.

Don't get me wrong, I think the MMs are pretty neat, but I can't bring myself to buy one due to the insane cost for an unarticulated chunk of plastic.

And Wombat, you can't spend $1 a month for Netflix Blu-Ray but you'll get a shelf full of Mighty Muggs? That wussy fart last episode is making so much more sense now ;)

#74 LiK

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 10:24 PM

Great show this week!

Can anyone tell me why Mighty Muggs are so expensive?? They're essentially just a simple plastic mold that is painted with whatever character likeness is required. I can buy a Transformer for ~$10 that is well articulated and transforms.

Don't get me wrong, I think the MMs are pretty neat, but I can't bring myself to buy one due to the insane cost for an unarticulated chunk of plastic.

And Wombat, you can't spend $1 a month for Netflix Blu-Ray but you'll get a shelf full of Mighty Muggs? That wussy fart last episode is making so much more sense now ;)


probably cuz the rare ones are hard to find, just like any other rare toy that is in high demand. it's not unusual. i'm actually surprised Mighty Muggs have become so collectible.
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#75 n11n12

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 10:27 PM

So Shipwreck, it's Bob Goode eh? Just be glad your name isn't Richard.

Thanks guys. This must be one of the best episodes in a long time.

#76 Mana Knight

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 10:28 PM

I'll have to pass on this episode. I get enough PS3 bashing on gaming news sites.

And complaining about the Gamestop exclusive Killzone 2 demo is more of the same double standards. No one complains about Xbox 360 exclusive demos, do they?

Same.

I agree. I mean, GameStop wants more preorders while SCEA would like an extra money boost. If both can get what they want, that's why there's the demo preorder bonus. OXM has gotten exclusive demos before and XBL Gold gets demos one week ahead of silver members.

I think the demo is up on PSN, isn't it?

The demo is on Euro PSN and comes to the PS Store next week.
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#77 crewj

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 10:29 PM

Well I'm going to throw my thoughts in here. First I think you're exaggerating about the PS3 being DOOMED for 3rd parties if Killzone 2 doesn't sell spectacularly.
Firstly the RROD issue is a big issue, even for publishers. I've chatted with a friend who was BIG 360 and he has turned around about the PS3 and definitely acknowledges the problem. As part of the dev thing when I chatted with him he is noting with his contact or contacts that it seems the developer community is making the PS3 their platform of choice due to the RROD issue for one. Another is it's easier to port from PS3 to 360 and have like results I'm sure is another. I mean some of these devs. have to or I'm sure are already realizing that some of those 360 numbers are just inflated due to all the RROD syndromes.


Call me a PS3 fanboy. I made a vow to myself never to buy a 360... even with all the price drops, I still won't ever buy a 360.:booty:However, I find it hard to believe that devs and publishers would switch their platform of choice from the 360 to the PS3 due to the RROD. No matter what, the 360 is cheap. If you got a little kid with soccer mom at bestbuy, that mom is gonna go with the cheap 360. Between the PS3 and the 360, getting a next gen console for under $200 is very appealing to many families. Put together a low priced console and with M$ pushing $$ for exclusives, it's gonna appeal to the consumer.

I don't think anyone should be bashing the PS3 at this point. Yea, they're #2, but you have to admit that Sony's got some highly rated exclusives both at retail and on the PSN. I know I've got my $$'s worth.

#78 trip1eX

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 10:31 PM

I don't think the KillZone 2 no-demo marketing a bungle at all.

First, it's a myth that demos help sales. They often don't unless you have a really killer game that no one has heard of.

Second, by giving the demo to players who pre-ordered you are creating a very friendly army of cheerleaders to promote the game for you.

Third, like Cheapie said they have some nice marketing tie-in with Gamestop as Cheapie. A tie-in that is likely to increase awareness of the title much more so than a demo would.

Plus don't you guys always diss the PS3 for the time it takes to download demos?

And 300 GI JOes? I definitely want to see them in a bathtub. That would be a hoot. Maybe sell pictures of that for $1 to get Shipwreck some much-needed therapy.

#79 Sarang01

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 10:42 PM

Crewj I think part of it could be the fact that porting from PS3 to 360 is easier and you'll have like results. The same doesn't go for vice versa. In regards to the RROD thing and consumers I'm not just referring to that. I'm referring to the systems that were breaking down IN the offices. I remember he mentioned the number being 20. Heck it may have been more. This is definitely an issue. It was like 2 or 3 PS3's in comparison. He mentioned one of them was no fault of the PS3 either.

Oh and if I see that Soccer mom anywhere I will tell her about the problem and that she'd be better off buying a PS3. I'd go so far as to outline the BR thing as well. K.I.S.S. I can't wait till Sony drops the price in March. I hope they're smart enough to marketing blitz the Fuck out of it when they do.

What amazes me is how much Sony has fucked up on LBP. Little Big Planet should be selling like a motherfucker, even if it's not necessarily the game. Sony has basically created a mascot in Sackboy that rivals if not beats Mario. I mean they both have that very cute aesthetic.
edit: Sony needs to sell Sackboy action figures, dolls, etc. They can merchandise the Fuck out of him without just selling the game. I mean this is a no-brainer. I'm frankly surprised Sony could Fuck up something so perfect when it fell in their lap. But it's Sony and they seem to be fucking up all over. Afrika was an easy thing to push in schools and PS3's in addition. I mean it has stuff from National Geographic in it.
Oh and I meant developers in that entire quote not publishers.
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#80 Neverfade

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 10:43 PM

I'm pretty mind boggled at the whole Dead Space argument. I think it's an absolutely great game, but claiming the limb-removing portion of combat is super fresh is pretty silly. It's still a "headshot"... just their limbs are the "head". You want to always remove limbs in this game just like you'd ideally want to always remove heads in any other applicable game. Granted, the by-product of this (removing/flying limbs) is admittedly super sweet, but call a spade a spade.

Additionally, while I definitely wouldn't call it a clone (and even does several things better), saying its nothing like Resident Evil... asinine.

#81 sigtheman

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 11:00 PM

Great show guy's

On the topic of Street Fighter 4's net-play V.S HDRemix . . . With HDRemix they had enough resources left over once all was said and done to use the GGPO client for networking. I'm guessing this makes for a better online package in HDRemix(spectating lobbies etc..). Seems like they cut all fat from the networking for SF4 to squeeze out the most lag-free package we could get.

It seems that the major review sites are taking that into account. Lag VS extra's is what it came down to . . .

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#82 Loonknight

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 11:20 PM

You inspired me to make my cat that UK PSN account he's been bugging me about. Demo incoming.


I'm glad I inspired someone today. Enjoy the demo.

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#83 mykevermin

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 11:27 PM

Call me a PS3 fanboy. I made a vow to myself never to buy a 360... even with all the price drops, I still won't ever buy a 360.:booty:However, I find it hard to believe that devs and publishers would switch their platform of choice from the 360 to the PS3 due to the RROD. No matter what, the 360 is cheap. If you got a little kid with soccer mom at bestbuy, that mom is gonna go with the cheap 360. Between the PS3 and the 360, getting a next gen console for under $200 is very appealing to many families. Put together a low priced console and with M$ pushing $$ for exclusives, it's gonna appeal to the consumer.

I don't think anyone should be bashing the PS3 at this point. Yea, they're #2, but you have to admit that Sony's got some highly rated exclusives both at retail and on the PSN. I know I've got my $$'s worth.


The PS3 defense in here (which even I suppose I'm guilty of, even if my take is more "Wombat is a shitbag no-talent hack with a dismally annoying voice" than it is "Sony is #1!") is something that serves little purpose. Here's how it works:

1) Wombat shits on the PS3, intentionally states that he's trying to get a reaction and has a laff about it.
2) Reaction GET!
3) Wombat is satisfied - any logic, anything coherent, anything incoherent for that matter, in those arguments merely feed the bloated beast.

He gets what he wanted, so he's not going to suddenly show up next week and say "you know what? myke is fuckin' soopa smart and his criticisms of what a shitty theory I posited over L4D was spot on." He's going to say "Killzone 2, and you, can all eat a dick; oh, and I heard that Madden 2010 is canceled for the PS3."

The cycle shall repeat. Me? I'm a bit ashamed I even had my say a page back. I stand by it, and I still think that Wombat's logic behind Left 4 Dead's exclusivity on consoles is intentionally misleading at worst, and embarrassingly misinformed by gaps in thought a grown adult shouldn't be missing at best. But I can say "you want a refutation to your theory? Go ask Gabe Newell why there isn't a PS3 L4D and you'll get an answer" until I'm blue in the face. Point is, that post, this one, and the rest of 'em simply sate his undeserving ego. So enjoy it; I'm going to do my best to simply avoid falling prey to your unqualified and flagrantly biased take on things from now on. That's the best promise I can make.

hellbringer (sorry, not lookin' for '3's ;)), I see your point, but the mitigating loss/reassigning funds example you use is still premised on discovering something that isn't profitable, and manipulating it to be less unprofitable. Which rests on the largely false assumption that PS3 editions of titles are both (1) unprofitable and (2) account for greater overall losses/reductions in profit than a platform-exclusive title. Which is fine logic in your theater example, or perhaps in the restaurant business. But it's a logical leap that's beyond fucking absurd in this case. It can be hastily applied to say "well, there's no N-Gage edition of Left 4 Dead because of this economic principle," I suppose, but the argument of comparing two editions of games where the sales ratio of 360:PS3 is typically 2-3:1, it assumes that the *cost* of developing a PS3 version of a given game raises the overall cost of development from start to scratch by 50% (or higher, if we assume losses). Which is laughably untrue. All I'm saying is that wombat's flatulence came off as more intellectually convincing than this argument. Dude's like the Michael Savage of gaming radio.

Allogistics, or whatever your Decendents-inspired name is, you're totally fired for comparing the hosts to Cincinnati Chili. You bring dishonor to Camp Washington, and are hereby banned from anyplace other than Dixie Chili. ;)
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#84 Sarang01

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 11:32 PM

The limb bit had been done before though I'm not sure with a firearm. "Eternal Darkness" allowed you to do it with the Kukri and other weapons. Come to think of it that might have worked with the firearms too.
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#85 Nebenator

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 11:32 PM

I am not eligible for the prize. Who should I send my number to?

#86 TimeDoctor

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 11:35 PM

Here are some quick instructions for wombat if he hasn't seen them already for getting the KZ2 demo:
http://timedoctor.or...ut-a-pre-order/

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#87 SithFran

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 11:46 PM

You don't stand alone about the Mighty Muggs, Cheapy. I don't get their appeal.

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#88 BostonCollegeFan

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 11:53 PM

Oh wow the uninformed making comments that are irrelevant.

Always a wonderful CAGcast full of inane discussions and "look at me i'm so cool, aren't I? Yes you are so cool" debauchery.

#89 h3llbring3r

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Posted 18 February 2009 - 11:59 PM

but the argument of comparing two editions of games where the sales ratio of 360:PS3 is typically 2-3:1, it assumes that the *cost* of developing a PS3 version of a given game raises the overall cost of development from start to scratch by 50% (or higher, if we assume losses). Which is laughably untrue.


Correct me if I am wrong but I make no such statements or implications about dev. costs alone. My overall estimations are not that myopic. (Just as a movie theater's profitability is not just about ticket sales.)

You are also dancing around the issue that the buying base is not mutually exclusive, which is important- and this is a serious consideration for any studio. Anecdotally, 90% of PS3 owners I know also own a 360. Considering you can sell more units at a significantly lower cost because of that fact alone is attractive for some publishers.

Staff resource management also becomes another legitimate issue, are you going to run parallel dev. teams after your basic modeling is done or delay release for your recoded ps3 title- like a Bioshock/Orangebox route and then you are looking at a ratio closer to 8:1* which is what Valve was probably considering. For many game studios time and timing is crucial in their considerations (3d-realms/Take-2 vis-á-vis Duke Nukem Forever excluded:bouncy:).

Lastly- cost considerations are not just limited initial dev. cost, but also in support. With each patch requiring multiple codings and then console specific patches that are inevitably required.

And again don't ignore the aforementioned demographics, one of the chief criticisms I hear from avid PS3 fans about the 360 is it's geared towards FPS and FPS fans- which largely suits a developer like Valve.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see less exclusives not more. I am a fan of both platforms (except for the PS3's woefully dated controller ergonomics and the 360's build quality).


I just think there is much more to the decision making process than "Gabe Newell thinks the PS3 is a POS."

*Granted this is hardly a completely fair comparison for Bioshock considering the duration of market availability, but it is relevant nonetheless and the numbers for OB are similar. You are also dead on with the Wombat flame baiting BTW.

Edited by h3llbring3r, 19 February 2009 - 12:18 AM.

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#90 BostonCollegeFan

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Posted 19 February 2009 - 12:06 AM

I think Gabes problem is a personal one with Sony, more than anything. Which makes me wonder with each time he makes these ridiculous decisions how much the staff want him gone.

Two titles in the top 25 can be double the profit of one game in the top 5.

I suspect CheapyD of this sometimes, since he's always had a flair of an extreme bias for Microsoft ever since he did those reports for that one channel back in 05 or whatever.