CAGcast #150: Shipwreck Hates PS3, Killzone 2, and You!

[quote name='BostonCollegeFan']It's not just him, it's anyone who tries to feed the trolls.[/quote]
Have you seen my avatar quote LOL! From my perspective its not about condescension but just for LULZ.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']I can confirm this. He is not.[/QUOTE]

Hey shippy. Mrs.Shipwreck gonna get on PSN anytime soon? I'd like to game with her for a bit one of these days when I get my TV fixed. I mean you're a big FPS fan for the most part, liking few other genre's.
 
Listened to CAGcast today at work, always love to hear Shipwreck on the show.
I wanted to respond to all the Wombat Sony complaints the last couple of shows. I just bought a PS3 in Jan, with the Sony Card $150 back + $50 BB GC I thought it was a good deal. I think a lot of people who sound like there bashing the PS3 are actually angry at Sony the company. They see that PS3 has all these great things that they don't follow thru on or they seem like they refuse to listen to the community. And the community almost feels like there in a movie theater watching a killer on the other side of the door and there screaming don't open that door but then Sony opens the door. Sony is looking for that gimmick that can get these things moving off the shelves like the Wii but it's too late. They spend all this money on motion controller, which they kind of gave up on after it didn't receive the splash they wanted it to. They spend all this money on Home which is not what the console gamer is looking for. And now they’re going to tell us that we need to be playing games with 3D glasses.
At this point the only thing bringing the PS3 down is Sony itself. I love the 1st party games on Playstation, all 5 of them. They need to get off their ass and start turning out more 1st party games and show developers how great the PS3 can be and get more people taking about (insert PS2 character name here) new game and not sorry we can’t give you a demo until you buy our game bullshit.
 
I wish that Shipwreck had a permanent chair in the CAGCast. I have never listened to Foreplay(since I never buy new games), but I like what he adds to the CAGCast.
 
[quote name='hufferstl']I wish that Shipwreck had a permanent chair in the CAGCast. I have never listened to Foreplay(since I never buy new games), but I like what he adds to the CAGCast.[/quote]

I agree! They should add Mrs. Shipwreck and make it a foursome.

....That didn't come out right.
 
[quote name='BostonCollegeFan']It's not just him, it's anyone who tries to feed the trolls.[/QUOTE]

you mean like you in this thread?
 
Good God, I just finished House of the Dead: Overkill, and I did not do the disturbing nature of this game justice. I think I need a bath.
 
Great show as always Wombat and Cheapy! Even Shipwreck, who I normally tolerate for his gaming knowledge but find very bland, was entertaining. Mild quibble: the bodily functions are creeping back into the show (I still remember the early Cheapy burpcasts). That said, the infamous Wombat fart is a source of unending hilarity. So, do whatever you want.

Wombat: you're insane if you think DC Universe is not going to be subscription based. Until they announce it's not, then you're a genius.

Cheapy: I agree with you wholeheartedly about Mighty Mugs. But, then again some people might think a giant Robocop pellet gun is juvenile (they're confusing juvenile with awesome) so maybe I should cut the MM folks some slack.

Cheapy/Wombat: CAG Battlefield 1943 sounds like a heck of a time.

Shipwreck: I was on the fence about House of the Dead: Overkill, but you've convinced me. Thanks.
 
Great show I love these, and keep it up. Also I had no idea shipwreck was a red-head. Anyway the no cover on Killzone 2 MP made my day, I was not looking forward to using that on multiplayer at all, but it seems that it will be far much more simple pick and play type of game.

Also shameless Banjo plea.
 
[quote name='shipwreck']Good God, I just finished House of the Dead: Overkill, and I did not do the disturbing nature of this game justice. I think I need a bath.[/QUOTE]

Ok now pass it over to Mrs.Shipwreck.

edit: Hey Redjago!
 
[quote name='SithFran']You don't stand alone about the Mighty Muggs, Cheapy. I don't get their appeal.[/QUOTE]

Toys that bear greater physical resemblance to the owners than what they were based on?

I dunno; beats me. I think they look like bloated McDonald's Happy Meal toys. Cute, tho'.

[quote name='h3llbring3r']You are also dancing around the issue that the buying base is not mutually exclusive, which is important- and this is a serious consideration for any studio.[/quote]

That's a valid point. Each time I purchase a multiplatform title, I have to discern which platform I buy it on. It ain't gonna be both (tho' I did score a cheap 360 GTAIV, so that's not wholly true). There are indeed a myriad of variables to consider; that said, I'm still wholly unconvinced that companies are dabbling in testing out whether or not games are more profitable if released exclusively on one console. *Especially* when your publisher is Electronic Arts (a company who, I believe, still releases 3D0 titles ;)).

One thing I strongly disagree with is that the 360 is the FPS console. Both are; the 360 has Gears of War series over PS3 (they have Halo, too, but aren't we supposed to dislike that series now?). But the PS3 is just as marred by FPS titles as the 360; all the multiplatform ones (save L4D!), even the ones folks didn't buy, like Turning Point, Fracture, and...that one...crap...oh yeah, Dark Sector. It's an FPS gen, much to my chagrin. We can argue whether or not Gears/Halo beats Killzone/Resistance (or maybe it's not much of an argument after all), but if there's one thing we ain't starvin' for, it's FPS. They're all over the place like dirty, shoeless children at a Golden Corral.

[quote name='BostonCollegeFan']I think Gabes problem is a personal one with Sony, more than anything. Which makes me wonder with each time he makes these ridiculous decisions how much the staff want him gone.[/QUOTE]

I don't know nothin' 'bout nothin' regarding personal quibbles at Valve, and don't know much about Newell himself, except (1) he hates hates hates programming for the PS3, and (2) he's not about to mince words over #1. Is it personal? Don't know, and don't think it matters. It's passionate fo' sho' is what it is. However it became that L4D became 360 exclusive, I would be shocked if he didn't have a hand in it. Otherwise, we'd be entertaining the possibility that EA themselves decided to not release a game on a current platform. That's as likely as the sun rising in California and setting on the east coast. Ok, not as likely. Just slightly more, though.

[quote name='Wombat']hey now, no need to get personal, I never said that I was stating fact and my L4D was actually not intended as flame-bait. If anything I was hoping it stir up some conversation bout the topic in thread, which it has. Intelligent conversations by people like you. So why is that a bad thing? I going to think that really don't really feel that way about me, but if for some reason you do, you are ineligible to win Banjo, ;)[/QUOTE]

Hey, hombre. I got fired up; nothing personal. Never is. I'll do what I rarely do: apologize.

Hey Wombat, I'm sorry for being a prick.

*whew*

What the argument smacks of, to me, is an opinion that isn't really fully formed, and upon scrutiny is pretty bloody implausible. And while that, in and of itself, may not be flamebait, you did undoubtedly tout your flame-gaining abilities while complaining about the Killzone demo. But let me repeat: I *agree* with that criticism! The theory of demos is supposed to be a gaming hors d'oeuvre; sample and enjoy. Buy if you really enjoy. But samples are samples; not a commodity to be limited in its distribution. Ideally. But you railed on this with outrage, and while I agree with that, downloading the demo was as easy as making a UK account. Doesn't change your point about Sony's marketing philosophy, but it does provide you with access to the title. So you railed on the point, and seemed to delight in how much shit it would stir...well, right here. So I'm not convinced of your overall innocence in the slightest - whether intentional or not (the latter being the implication that PS3 development, and the console's mere existence, is a burden for developers and publishers more than it is an additional revenue stream).

But...whew. Another long post. Dangit!
 
I also would like to add that Shipwreck is a great addition to the group. I'd like to see CAG Foreplay merged into the CAGcast entirely. Maybe Mrs. Shipwreck could join the show for a brief period to discuss new releases since we'd miss hearing from her.
 
You know, the more I think about killzone 2 and the PS3 in general, the more confused I get.

I think what shocks me the most is how poorly managed the SOE branch is run. And this trickles down to everything SOE related, in this case, Killzone 2. The way they've handled this whole demo thing should be enough to fire most of the people running the show. Killzone 2 is an unproven franchise for most people, I myself know nothing about the Killzone universe. It seems like, and here's the key, -if they wanted to succeed-, they would be handing this demo out to anyone willing to take it. burn it to discs and hand it out at malls, throw it out of planes, have huge signs everywhere they can put them with "TRY THE DEMO NOW! FREE!", and of course make it available to people via PSN. But, for some odd reason, they're giving the demo out to people who have ALREADY BOUGHT the game, via pre-ordering. You don't need to push these customers anymore, they've bought your product, that's all there is to it. mission complete. It's the customers who are skeptical that you should be targeting. And the best way to sell to them is through a demo. It's so ass-backward, as Wombat said.

I just don't understand it, has this never came up in any of the Sony meetings? I mean, for Christ's sake, have these people attended business school? Have they heard of Business school? I'm not trying to troll here, it just seems odd to me, as a potential customer, to treat the demo, which is really just a form of advertisement, let's get that out of the way right now, as if it's some sort of reward. I just don't get it.

I guess it's going to take Killzone 2 flopping, not because it's a bad game or because the PS3 is a bad system, but because it's been marketed so poorly, to open Sony's eyes. Or, perhaps not. Let's face it, the PS3 has had terrible marketing and not so stellar sales to match, and Sony still hasn't a clue.
 
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About the Killzone 2 demo...if Wombat had played the Killzone 2 demo, he would have understood why Sony does not want Americans playing it. The game looks great in videos and has gotten great reviews, but after playing the roughly 10 minute long demo I was turned off by the controls. Many people on 1UP and other people who have played the game have said that the controls do take getting used to and the game gets better as you advance through the campaign, but those factors cannot be seen in the demo. Another portion of the game that has said to be phenominal is the online multiplayer, which also is not present in the demo. I think that after people have played the demo, they will be less hyped for Killzone 2 because of the frustrating controls, and that will detract from the other factors that the game has going for it.
 
I dont see whats the big fuss about the American demo of KZ2. It will be in the PS Store when the game hits (or at least that Thursday of that week).

"Exclusive access" to a demo is not something new to this industry.
 
[quote name='mykevermin'] . . . . but if there's one thing we ain't starvin' for, it's FPS. They're all over the place like dirty, shoeless children at a Golden Corral.[/quote]
:rofl:
 
While listening to the talk about DC Universe, I just remembered that I hate Superman - every freaking super power known and invincible except for kyrptonite, also if he dies he comes back - whatever.
 
CheapyD - I need an explanation.

You tend to give Wombat a hard time about his gay job, but on CAGCast 150 you were talking without shame about eating other peoples' sausages.

Should we be worried about your marital status?

I just want you to set the record straight.
 
another good show, though the title threw me off since I was expecting ship to go on how the ps3 sucks

wombat needs to calm down with the interrupting and annoying rhetorical questions. he occasionally makes it seem funny but I usually find him to come off as a douche. I know it's all in good taste but it gets old so please cut it down (or learn to make it funny more often)

cheapy, as always has not failed to make me laugh. the way he just goes about detailing some stupid occurrence in his carefree life never gets boring.

shipwreck is always great. though he needs to speak up and be more enthusiastically engaged with the conversation (though wombat interrupts him and throws in some cheap shots). ship brings a kind of unique calming charm to the show which neither wombat nor cheapy can offer.

oh and I wouldn't mind a sealed copy of Banjo-Kazooie:Nuts 'N Bolts...I wasn't trying to get a wombat (just some constructive criticism). but anyway wombat rules
 
This show is great, I really like the 3-way action w/ Shipwreck. Ship should be in every episode or at least a regular guest, I am really enjoying these episodes! Thanks for another one and I can't wait Ship to see the pictures of your collections.
 
I love Killzone 2 Demo Conspiracists who are nothing but fanboys. "Sony doesn't want you to see it because it suxlolol111" or "Sony mishandled this" are some of the most ridiculous statements i've ever seen in my internet life, and i've been the administrator of a message board full of furries before.

Gamestop likely paid Sony for the exclusiveness of the demo to get more sales. Stop trying to make this some 9/11 conspiracy bullshit. If you need me too, I'll write a 10 page document on why shopping the exclusive Killzone 2 demo around was a amazing marketing decision and financial success (in short: Sony, instead of losing on a demo like ALL companies, made a profit off of it).
 
Please do. Sure, it's a large short gain, but what about the long run? Please explain how a pay to play "demo" is a financial success.
 
First of all, it's not pay to play. It's a bonus to people who pre-ordered the game at GameStop, hence why it's available to everyone else in the outside countries without a preorder. Likely, either GameStop or Sony went up to the other and said "Hey, what can we offer for pre-order bonus?". Someone suggested a demo. Gamestop must've suggested an exclusive demo (again, you guys act like this is some new invention...Rogue Squadron 3 anyone?). This was born, giving Sony lots of money as GameStop surely would've had to pony up to get that exclusive demo. Anyone who thinks this was Sony purposely conspiraced to shoot JF- erm, I mean, not offer this demo to the users is stupid.

If you want me to go in depth on it, I will tommorow. But giving away this demo as a pre-order is no different than giving away beta access if you pre-order. The only difference is adolescents pretending to be internet crusaders.

And again, this is a exclusive time based offer, meaning that once the game comes out, the demo will be available to anyone. fuck, I bet half of you who are bitching don't even own a PS3.
 
[quote name='BostonCollegeFan']I love Killzone 2 Demo Conspiracists who are nothing but fanboys. "Sony doesn't want you to see it because it suxlolol111" or "Sony mishandled this" are some of the most ridiculous statements i've ever seen in my internet life, and i've been the administrator of a message board full of furries before.

Gamestop likely paid Sony for the exclusiveness of the demo to get more sales. Stop trying to make this some 9/11 conspiracy bullshit. If you need me too, I'll write a 10 page document on why shopping the exclusive Killzone 2 demo around was a amazing marketing decision and financial success (in short: Sony, instead of losing on a demo like ALL companies, made a profit off of it).[/quote]

I think the consensus is not that it was a conspiracy but just a bad marketing idea. Supporters want to see this title explode.
The internet press for KZ2 has been borderline gushing, and everyone I know who has played the demo has been positive about it. Why kill the hype and potentially subdue the game launch by limiting it's access? (And do so with the game-retailer with the worst "good will" to boot! Let me preorder my full-price game so I can get it at gamestop where they open it before I get my hands on it)

It's not like the franchise is a "gang-buster" with legions of devotees warranting a marketing tie-in (like a Halo 3 demo/ Crackdown thing).

You would think they would want the weekend gamer, who doesn't read all the pre-release and web hype, and gaming site fodder to DL the demo and get hooked on the title well before the launch.

It's no conspiracy IMHO just a ham-handed move.

Aside: I wouldn't tell anyone I was a "furries" message board admin. Yikes man.
 
The fact that you must put $5 down makes it pay to play, just not in the literal sense.

And it still doesn't explain why the move is a brilliant marketing decision or a financial success for Sony. All it is, is "Hey, we're going to give a demo to the people who are going to buy this game anyways."

For Gamestop, of course, they have the better gain from the deal, since it pushes one of their main sources of revenue: Pre-orders.
 
Because the internet != real life. Just because a group of a thousand outspoken nerds say it's good, and another thousand say it's unfair that they dont' get it without pre-ordering doesn't mean anything outside of the internet. In the real life, this was a genious move as now Sony and Gamestop can advertise that it's exclusively available at Gamestop, and all the casual and PS3 fans who don't frequent hardcore game sites, like CAG, or GAF, will see these advertisements, and if they have any info in Killzone 2, will go down to Gamestop and drop the pre-order. This profits both Gamestop and Sony, as Gamestop now can invest on your money and Sony is getting paid from the deal with Gamestop.

The weekend gamer doesn't go on CAG. The weekend gamer doesn't go on GAF. They go to Gamestop. They find out their info their. They find out from magazines or Yahoo.Com.
 
[quote name='moojuice']The fact that you must put $5 down makes it pay to play, just not in the literal sense.

And it still doesn't explain why the move is a brilliant marketing decision or a financial success for Sony. All it is, is "Hey, we're going to give a demo to the people who are going to buy this game anyways."

For Gamestop, of course, they have the better gain from the deal, since it pushes one of their main sources of revenue: Pre-orders.[/QUOTE]

Brilliant marketing decision because now they are forcing people to go to Gamestop to get it, where they can peddle their items on to these same people. Look up the escalator concept in regards to marketing if you want to know more.

And Sony is making money from signing these exclusive deals that essentially cost them nothing. Since Microsoft has to pony up server space, they're taking a lost on these demos, but not Sony, as they made money off the demo.

And how does limiting it kill the hype? It does the exact opposite; it makes people want to go down to Gamestop and drop $5 for that demo. It makes the wait even more untolerable for people, and it raises hype. I don't see how people think it kills hype, unless you're one of those aforementioned conspirators who think Sony didn't want to release it because it "sucks".
 
Sony doesn't have their screws in tight enough in some places. This KZ2 demo business from SCEA is one of them. That's why I downloaded it from the European Store instead of paying $5 to pre-order it or using Home to ask a Helghast-clothed person for a demo code (although this idea was good since it might make people use Home as a cross-promotion).

I don't know where you got the idea Cheapy that Wombat's fart sounds like Mario jumping in SMB, because that sounds nothing like it. Also, are you using a standard 360 controller to play Street Fighter 4?
 
[quote name='BostonCollegeFan']Because the internet != real life. Just because a group of a thousand outspoken nerds say it's good, and another thousand say it's unfair that they dont' get it without pre-ordering doesn't mean anything outside of the internet. In the real life, this was a genious move as now Sony and Gamestop can advertise that it's exclusively available at Gamestop, and all the casual and PS3 fans who don't frequent hardcore game sites, like CAG, or GAF, will see these advertisements, and if they have any info in Killzone 2, will go down to Gamestop and drop the pre-order. This profits both Gamestop and Sony, as Gamestop now can invest on your money and Sony is getting paid from the deal with Gamestop.

The weekend gamer doesn't go on CAG. The weekend gamer doesn't go on GAF. They go to Gamestop. They find out their info their. They find out from magazines or Yahoo.Com.[/quote]

1. You assume Sony is getting paid. I imagine it was more likely done more indirectly with a committed volume orders for a set of titles.

2. You seem to be greatly in the minority in your opinion.

3. It's not a question of fairness, no post I have seen claims that, it's one of logic and decision making. It's smacks of total stupidity. Unlike a beta, demo's are specifically designed and produced to garner interest in a game, so why would any company electively limit their core buyers access to them?
 
Nice to hear from you again, Ship. Our calendars have been so off from eachother I was afraid that I needed an appointment to get my PC previews to you.
 
1. Sony ARE getting paid. If you think they just freely gave Gamestop the exclusive rights to the demo for their biggest release of the year, then you're in denial. Plus, with all pre-order items, there's liscening fee's and all of that jazz.

2. It's not an opinion but whatever. It's more a marketing strategy that they adopted, a rather basic one too, the escalator concept.

3. Why are demo's confined to these rules? Why are Sony going under fire and not Nintendo and Microsoft when both have pulled these practices before? Why aren't beta's under this same thought? It's the same damn thing as a demo, a flat out lie (sorry, but no public beta is really a beta. Game companies have ruined that word).
 
Again, short term profits. It's like winning the lottery. Sony is taking the smaller lump sum for instant gratification, rather that accepting smaller payouts over a longer period of time for more profits. Is the risk of shunning potential sales worth it for an upfront sum?

An average consumer will view a demo as just that: a demonstration of a product.

When they are walking past Gamestop, they see "Put a down payment on this game for a sneak peek of the game." When deciding between a Honda Accord or a Honda Civic, ask the average consumer to pony up %5 of the list price of a car just so they can test drive it. When deciding between a pound of ham or a pound of turkey at the deli, as for $2 to sample a slice of each. Pay $1 to see the trailer of a movie you are thinking about seeing.
 
I still don't see why you couldn't play the game 2 weeks earlier is shunning sales. Did Microsoft shun sales by putting the Halo 3 beta with Crackdown? No...they gained sales. Similar to what Sony is doing. And of course short term profits. Giving the demo out exclusively is getting them money. Once the game comes out, they still aren't going to be charging $5 for it, it'll be free. I highly doubt Sony gets that $5 also. It's without a doubt Gamestop who gets that as you're reserving a product through them, and they worked something out with Sony to give something out with that.

And your logic of people paying for the demo is ridiculous. Unlike your examples, you're paying $5 for the reservation of the game, with an added bonus thrown in; the demo. If you want to look at it as paying $5 for the demo then go ahead. I'll look at the Halo 3 Beta as costing $60.
 
[quote name='BostonCollegeFan']1. Sony ARE getting paid. If you think they just freely gave Gamestop the exclusive rights to the demo for their biggest release of the year, then you're in denial. Plus, with all pre-order items, there's liscening fee's and all of that jazz.

2. It's not an opinion but whatever. It's more a marketing strategy that they adopted, a rather basic one too, the escalator concept.

3. Why are demo's confined to these rules? Why are Sony going under fire and not Nintendo and Microsoft when both have pulled these practices before?[/quote]

I didn't say that Sony wasn't getting compensated in some way (in fact quite the opposite), I just doubt- completely that it was a straight-up cash on the barrel deal.

It's your opinion that it's a sound decision and marketing strategy, no one said it wasn't a marketing strategy ~ just that it was a poorly reasoned one (are you reading what people are posting our just purging your mind like a bad burrito into a 7/11 toilet). Exclusivity/scarcity and demo (demonstration) are near oxymoronic when combined in this manner.

As I recall MS caught a tremendous amount of flack for the closed HALO 3 beta Crackdown Tie-in.
 
[quote name='h3llbring3r']I didn't say that Sony wasn't getting compensated in some way (in fact quite the opposite), I just doubt- completely that it was a straight-up cash on the barrel deal.

It's your opinion that it's a sound decision and marketing strategy, no one said it wasn't a marketing strategy ~ just that it was a poorly reasoned one (are you reading what people are posting our just purging your mind like a bad burrito into a 7/11 toilet).

As I recall MS caught a tremendous amount of flack for the closed HALO 3 beta Crackdown Tie-in.[/QUOTE]


Did you miss the posts a page or two back when I was talking to the conspiracists who were saying it wasn't a marketing strategy? You must've, because that's who that was directed to. It was you guys who got offended when I explained what it was, and using the word "brilliant" next to "Sony" is to you guys the equivalent of using "heartwarming" next to "Hitler".

Here's the posts my descriptions where for:
http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5526475&postcount=119
That one he claims they weren't good marketing strategys, when in fact they where, in technical terms. Escalator concept.

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5526485&postcount=120

Second deranged conspirator.
 
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