Jump to content



Photo
- - - - -

CAGcast #150: Shipwreck Hates PS3, Killzone 2, and You!


  • Please log in to reply
343 replies to this topic

#151 BostonCollegeFan

BostonCollegeFan

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:26 AM

Yes, and that's all the matters in the end. Sony didn't lose any sales by keeping the demo exclusive for two weeks. The people who want to get the game on opening day knew they already wanted it. The demo is available to everyone in the USA on release day, where, as a fellow Thomas said, it'll serve it's purpose to the people who aren't day one adopters. This is pretty much a non-issue except to those who turn it into a issue (wombat).

Anyways i'm going to bed. Good night.

#152 h3llbring3r

h3llbring3r

    Mecha Cocksmas 2 all

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:32 AM

Sony's marketing campaign is weak for this game... it needs that Final Fantasy 7 marketing campaign. That campaign got people who NEVER played an RPG to make a purchase on FF7.


Which is why I think this was ill-advised. Nothing sells this game better than the great demo, otherwise it looks like any other FPS.

Hands on differentiation, well before launch, seats the purchase in the gamers mind. Thinking all the way back to the shareware version of DOOM and how it garnered tremendous press and attention months before launch, is exactly the kind of presell this title needed. People were foaming at the mouth to buy it as I think they would have KZ2, maybe they will still do so but I think this move has hobbled and harmed its potential sales.

Sony's normal advertised marketing has just gone to hell in a hand-basket, let the demo speak for itself and this thing would launch huge.

My Trade list:

http://www.cheapassg...ad.php?t=173460
Going dark on the internet for two weeks during move.


#153 BostonCollegeFan

BostonCollegeFan

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:35 AM

Again, how is the demo not speaking for itself? Do you honestly think every PS3 owner cares about the game? Do you have some kind of super human ability to turn a 360 into a PS3 demo player? Because anyone who owns a PS3 and wants this game on day one, is likely going to pre order it. And they can pre-order it at Gamestop. And they can get the demo. For anyone who doesn't care about it until for the time being, there's a demo coming out THE DAY IT RELEASES. And the people who are going to buy a PS3 to play the game, are likely going to buy it on release day- Oh hey, look what's ALSO OUT ON RELEASE DAY FOR EVERYONE!

I think people are getting lost in the fact that games are on sale for more than a day.

#154 moojuice

moojuice

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:38 AM

In my examples, I meant to say that in the end, you were going to buy those products, but you had to put down prepayment so you could try it out.

But, I was under the impression that the demo wasn't available to everyone after release, ala Left 4 Dead, and the only way to get into the demo was by jumping through a bunch of hoops with Home. So, nevermind, my point is moot.

#155 BostonCollegeFan

BostonCollegeFan

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:39 AM

Yeah, if the demo wasn't coming out on release day, then I would agree that it would be stupid to have it be some exclusive thing to one person, but it's not. It's a timed exclusive. For two weeks. For early adopters who would pre-order it anyways.

#156 h3llbring3r

h3llbring3r

    Mecha Cocksmas 2 all

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:42 AM

Again, how is the demo not speaking for itself? Do you honestly think every PS3 owner cares about the game? Do you have some kind of super human ability to turn a 360 into a PS3 demo player? Because anyone who owns a PS3 and wants this game on day one, is likely going to pre order it. And they can pre-order it at Gamestop. And they can get the demo. For anyone who doesn't care about it until for the time being, there's a demo coming out THE DAY IT RELEASES. And the people who are going to buy a PS3 to play the game, are likely going to buy it on release day- Oh hey, look what's ALSO OUT ON RELEASE DAY FOR EVERYONE!

I think people are getting lost in the fact that games are on sale for more than a day.


Again, the point: THE LAST PEOPLE WHO NEED TO PLAY A GAME DEMO ARE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALREADY BOUGHT THE GAME. The demo is silent to undecided buyers. If I am playing a demo on launch whilst everyone else is playing the actual game am I on the curve or behind it?

We are talking about a successful launch, beyond just the long term total sales here.

My Trade list:

http://www.cheapassg...ad.php?t=173460
Going dark on the internet for two weeks during move.


#157 Labbo94

Labbo94

    Zack the CAG

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:44 AM

LittleBIGPlanet, Uncharted, and Killzone 2 are the three games that really make me want a PS3... The closet thing the 360 really has are Nuts & Bolts, Tomb Raider, and FEAR 2 :(

#158 BostonCollegeFan

BostonCollegeFan

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:45 AM

But the game is on sale for more than one day. The demo is a bonus to people who pre-order. It's not there to sell games. I don't see what the big problem is.

You don't see me bitching about XBLA demo's coming out two weeks ahead of time at somewheres else - oh because it doesn't matter. The only people who would get the demo are the people who are pre-ordering it already, and this is a bonus to preorder at Gamestop.

People act like this demo is meant to sell the game, but THE DEMO IS FREE TO EVERYONE in the USA the day the game comes out! You know, the same system XBLA uses. So it's not losing ANY SALES AT ALL!

#159 moojuice

moojuice

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:46 AM

The only real difference is day one sales in this particular situation. If you are on the fence about picking it up day one, you will wait for the demo. Then you try the demo on day one, you find out you like it, and you buy it on day two.

Sony benefits because they presumably get monetary benefit from Gamestop, and Gamestop benefits from higher traffic to their store.

#160 BostonCollegeFan

BostonCollegeFan

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:48 AM

Yes, exactly! moojuice just said what I did in three pages in 2 paragraphs heh.

#161 h3llbring3r

h3llbring3r

    Mecha Cocksmas 2 all

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:48 AM

The demo is a bonus to people who pre-order. It's not there to sell games. I don't see what the big problem is.

:imwithst:

We all know the game is going to be on sale for years to come, again we are talking about the launch.

My Trade list:

http://www.cheapassg...ad.php?t=173460
Going dark on the internet for two weeks during move.


#162 BostonCollegeFan

BostonCollegeFan

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:51 AM

The demo being offered to gamestop for pre-order customers is not to sell games based on the contents of the demo. It's there to entice pre-orders and store traffic.

When the demo is available to all on day one, then yes, it's main purpose is to sell games.

#163 h3llbring3r

h3llbring3r

    Mecha Cocksmas 2 all

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:53 AM

The demo being offered to gamestop for pre-order customers is not to sell games based on the contents of the demo. It's there to entice pre-orders and store traffic.

When the demo is available to all on day one, then yes, it's main purpose is to sell games.


Now, what part of what you just said seems like a logical marketing strategy?

My Trade list:

http://www.cheapassg...ad.php?t=173460
Going dark on the internet for two weeks during move.


#164 BostonCollegeFan

BostonCollegeFan

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:54 AM

The "entice pre-orders and store traffic" part? Did you miss my rant? The one where I said Gamestop paid Sony to have that demo to increase those two things, both of which they make the mass majority of their profits from?

Are you serious?

#165 h3llbring3r

h3llbring3r

    Mecha Cocksmas 2 all

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:56 AM

The "entice pre-orders and store traffic" part? Did you miss my rant? The one where I said Gamestop paid Sony to have that demo to increase those two things, both of which they make the mass majority of their products?

Are you serious?


Again, "enticing pre-orders" by giving people a demo of a game you just bought?
Are you serious?
:rofl:

I am done, thanks for the entertainment.
:wall:

My Trade list:

http://www.cheapassg...ad.php?t=173460
Going dark on the internet for two weeks during move.


#166 BostonCollegeFan

BostonCollegeFan

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:58 AM

Do I really need to explain this? Really?

Let's say it's February 10th. You have $5. You want to pre-order Killzone 2. You can go to Wal-Mart and pre-order it, and get a nice notebook with the Helghast on the cover. You can go to Circuit City and get a free pony. You can go to Gamestop and get a demo of the game so you can play it now 2 weeks early!

Does that sum it up pretty easily for you? Which one would you go to? Why do you think companies have these pre-order things in the first place? Hint: It's not for the internet crowd.

#167 h3llbring3r

h3llbring3r

    Mecha Cocksmas 2 all

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 06:59 AM

Do I really need to explain this? Really?

Let's say it's February 10th. You have $5. You want to pre-order Killzone 2. You can go to Wal-Mart and pre-order it, and get a nice notebook with the Helghast on the cover. You can go to Circuit City and get a free pony. You can go to Gamestop and get a demo of the game so you can play it now 2 weeks early!

Does that sum it up pretty easily for you? Which one would you go to? Why do you think companies have these pre-order things in the first place? Hint: It's not for the internet crowd.

ROFL!

My Trade list:

http://www.cheapassg...ad.php?t=173460
Going dark on the internet for two weeks during move.


#168 Shrapnellistic

Shrapnellistic

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 07:05 AM

No mention of NPD numbers... and Battlefield: Bad Company 2 announcement, Red Dead Redemption announcement, the 3 Need for Speeds in 2009 (NfS: Shift, NfS: Nitro, NfS: World), Crytek saving Free Radical Design, Dead Rising 2 announcement, the Dead Space on Wii announcement, and the quarter of THQ layoffs! I know "Asses" precedes "Gamers", but let's try here!

Posted Image


#169 TruthinessFC

TruthinessFC

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 07:07 AM

No offense but I completely disagree with Wombat's ranting on the Killzone 2 situation. At this point, if you don't know whether you want the game, and temporarily putting down $5 at Gamestop for a demo won't help you, then you aren't going to preorder, period. So once release rolls around, you can play the demo along with everyone else who can't be bothered to get the demo through the UK store. Problem solved. Also, I believe it was David Reeves who was quoted saying KZ2 already has more than half of Killzone's sales worth in preorders. Maybe it won't reach their expectations, but I don't see a flop either.

Good podcast though I enjoyed it, the interview at the very end was great. I don't think I've heard anyone from a 3rd party be so candid about the friend codes system. They realize it sucks too!

The way they've handled this whole demo thing should be enough to fire most of the people running the show.

Killzone 2 is an unproven franchise for most people, I myself know nothing about the Killzone universe. It seems like, and here's the key, -if they wanted to succeed-, they would be handing this demo out to anyone willing to take it. burn it to discs and hand it out at malls, throw it out of planes, have huge signs everywhere they can put them with "TRY THE DEMO NOW! FREE!", and of course make it available to people via PSN. But, for some odd reason, they're giving the demo out to people who have ALREADY BOUGHT the game, via pre-ordering. You don't need to push these customers anymore, they've bought your product, that's all there is to it. mission complete. It's the customers who are skeptical that you should be targeting. And the best way to sell to them is through a demo. It's so ass-backward, as Wombat said.

I just don't understand it, has this never came up in any of the Sony meetings? I mean, for Christ's sake, have these people attended business school? Have they heard of Business school? I'm not trying to troll here, it just seems odd to me, as a potential customer, to treat the demo, which is really just a form of advertisement, let's get that out of the way right now, as if it's some sort of reward. I just don't get it.

I guess it's going to take Killzone 2 flopping, not because it's a bad game or because the PS3 is a bad system, but because it's been marketed so poorly, to open Sony's eyes. Or, perhaps not. Let's face it, the PS3 has had terrible marketing and not so stellar sales to match, and Sony still hasn't a clue.

Wow, enough to fire most of the people running the show? Besides Stringer? I mean I'm usually critical of Sony's methods of advertising their games, or complete lackthereof, but in this case I don't see a problem. Maybe you personally feel inconvenienced that you have to a) preorder the game thru Gamestop or b) set up a UK PSN account in order to get the demo pre-release. But it's not a big deal.

Going to throw out some groundbreaking information now: Sony is a business. Businesses, including Sony, want to succeed. I hope that answers your concern...

Basically, this is a minor issue that will be a non-issue by the game's release. The demo is a timed exclusive, which ends on release day, maybe even the day before? The customers who are skeptical, but for whatever reason unable to set up a UK PSN account, will be very much able to experience the demo. And they'll even be able to go buy the game in stores by then, imagine that! And it's probably a win for Sony from a business perspective, so there's that too.

You would think they would want the weekend gamer, who doesn't read all the pre-release and web hype, and gaming site fodder to DL the demo and get hooked on the title well before the launch.

Well if the weekend gamer doesn't read the pre-release hype, how will they know the demo is even out yet? Wouldn't it work just fine if they can play the demo and buy the real game in the same day? One could argue if you introduce a game too early, less devoted gamers would forget about their experience and maybe not buy.

Edited by TruthinessFC, 19 February 2009 - 08:44 AM.


#170 FriskyTanuki

FriskyTanuki

    Get bopped, son.

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 07:08 AM

Is it really a mention in the Wall Street Journal article if you were specifically interviewed on the subject of that article?

Wombat, give me Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts for being the best me I can be. :D

I enjoyed the Halo Wars demo because it didn't bog me down with a lot of the complicated bullshit that most of the RTS games on 360 tend to have, which I'd like a simpler experience that doesn't overwhelm me and turn me off. Halo Wars was the first one to do that.

The whole Killzone 2 demo fiasco is kind of righted by the autonomous nature of each branch of Sony, as SCEE tends to screw over any deals that SCEA has for demos by uploading them the same day for anybody to get. Even though I had a code for Killzone 2 from GameStop, I downloaded it from the UK PS Store since it didn't go up until a few hours later and bypassed that whole situation. It'll be out the day before the game is out, so the lazy still get to play it early when most big hyped games don't get demos these days. Resistance Retribution was another game that was hidden under this cap, but just went up on the Japanese and UK PS Stores today for anyone to grab without preordering. I'd just rather have the option to download it through whatever means I have available to me than have the console maker going through all of the trouble of physically disabling the demo I've downloaded fair and square from another region's store (aka RE5).

Good show.


You read it. You can't unread it.

 

Horror Chicken: F.E.A.R. and Resident Evil 4

 

PSN/XBL: CrashSpyro | Steam: CrashTanuki | Wii U: FriendlyTanuki


#171 h3llbring3r

h3llbring3r

    Mecha Cocksmas 2 all

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 07:16 AM

Well if the weekend gamer doesn't read the pre-release hype, how will they know the demo is even out yet?

So they wouldn't browse the available demos before launch because they are lobotomized?

Wouldn't it work just fine if they can play the demo and buy the real game in the same day?


Again why would anyone want to, how does that function as a demo- that's like the extra doughnut in the baker's dozen instead. It's just something to eat on the way home, you've already bought the dough-nuts

One could argue if you introduce a game too early, less devoted gamers would forget about their experience and maybe not buy.

And this has happened when?

Tanuki knocked it out of the park BTW.

My Trade list:

http://www.cheapassg...ad.php?t=173460
Going dark on the internet for two weeks during move.


#172 SuxoR

SuxoR

    What choice did I have?

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 07:34 AM

Oh my...haha that video if Mario is hilarious lmao

1xz7eo.gif


#173 moojuice

moojuice

Posted 19 February 2009 - 07:34 AM

Assuming 15 people pre-order the game from Gamestop anyways, and 15 people are undecided...the demo convinces people to buy the game...and for simplicity's sake, the game costs $1...

Scenario 1: Sony does not agree to exclusivity with Gamestop, releases demo two weeks early.

The 15 guaranteed Gamestop pre-orders put down their deposit. They enjoy the sneak peek. The 15 undecided play the demo, decide they want to buy it ASAP. Release date rolls around, the 15 pre-orders pay off their balance, $15 in Sony's pocket. The 15 formerly undecided walk into a store, and there's another $15 in Sony's pocket.

$ in Sony's pocket: $30

Scenario B: Gamestop agrees to exclusive demo leading up to the game's release

Gamestop pays Sony $50 for exclusive deal. The 15 guaraunteed pre-orders place their deposits, enjoy a sneek peek at demo. The 15 undecided continue to watch gameplay videos, view screenshots, and read demo impressions. Release day rolls around. The 15 peope who pre-ordered pay off their balance and leave with a copy of KZ2, while the 15 undecided play the demo. Day 2 rolls around- the 15 undecided go to their favorite retailer and purchase a copy of KZ2.

$ in Sony's pocket: $80



Assuming the demo persuades people is a valid assumption, because it wouldn't matter if the demo dissuaded them, since it would be a lost sale in either scenario.

It is somewhat of a dick move on Sony's part, but they are making more money than they would have.

#174 h3llbring3r

h3llbring3r

    Mecha Cocksmas 2 all

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 07:40 AM

Assuming the demo persuades people is a valid assumption

^^this


It is somewhat of a dick move on Sony's part, but they are making more money than they would have.

Again, no. It's not a dick move, it's moronic.

Your analogy hypothetical is fundamentally flawed on every level and based entirely on assumptions. Exclusive demo's are self defeating.

My Trade list:

http://www.cheapassg...ad.php?t=173460
Going dark on the internet for two weeks during move.


#175 tak

tak

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 07:41 AM

The comment made during the podcast about overhearing someone in the mall excited about the prospect of a new Halo game got me thinking, I wonder how many people are going to buy Halo Wars thinking it is the next Halo FPS.

#176 aihuman

aihuman

Posted 19 February 2009 - 07:42 AM

Maybe Mario's original jump sound was really Miyamoto farting.Wombat youve recreated a great moment in history.

On to the Killzone Demo.The demo was short.The longest part of that demo was the end of it.It was basically the developers self gratifying themselves to review scores of various gaming outlets.After playing the demo I will not be buying this game,even used.They should have demo-ed the multiplayer.

Edited by aihuman, 19 February 2009 - 08:02 AM.

Posted Image

#177 TruthinessFC

TruthinessFC

    CAGiversary!

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 07:42 AM

So they wouldn't browse the available demos before launch because they are lobotomized?

Again why would anyone want to, how does that function as a demo- that's like the extra doughnut in the baker's dozen instead. It's just something to eat on the way home, you've already bought the dough-nuts

And this has happened when?

-Well they can't browse for something that isn't available on the SCEA store yet...

-How does it function as a demo? Well, after release a person turns on their PS3, enters the store, sees the KZ2 demo, downloads, installs, and plays it. It's just like most other demos...

Nobody will have to buy anything, the demo - again - will be 100% free. No preorders required. The exclusive Gamestop deal will expire on or a day before release.

-Wouldn't know, since it hasn't happened with me personally, but I'd imagine some games that have been announced too early have fallen victim to this. It's really not hard to imagine.

#178 h3llbring3r

h3llbring3r

    Mecha Cocksmas 2 all

  • CAGiversary!

Posted 19 February 2009 - 07:44 AM

The comment made during the podcast about overhearing someone in the mall excited about the prospect of a new Halo game got me thinking, I wonder how many people are going to buy Halo Wars thinking it is the next Halo FPS.

This is why I think Halo Wars before ODST was a really bad idea. I heard a kid talking while I was scanning target clearance on Monday who had no idea what Halo Wars was, yet he was gonna preorder it and get his free flaming warthog.

-Well they can't browse for something that isn't available on the SCEA store yet...

-How does it function as a demo? Well, after release a person turns on their PS3, enters the store, sees the KZ2 demo, downloads, installs, and plays it. It's just like most other demos...


You said "how would they know about the demo." If it had been available weeks before launch then it would have been in the SCEA store would it not have? I don't expect people to be able to DL something that doesn't exist. Where did you get that idea?

My Trade list:

http://www.cheapassg...ad.php?t=173460
Going dark on the internet for two weeks during move.


#179 moojuice

moojuice

Posted 19 February 2009 - 07:45 AM

Feel free to point out the flaws and how the assumptions are invalid then. There WILL be people who pre-order regardless. There WILL be people who will be persuaded by a demo.

You're just a moron who doesn't understand simple logic. (See? I can make baseless statements without backup too)

#180 DarkNessBear

DarkNessBear

Posted 19 February 2009 - 07:46 AM

Ya, F Sony! They raped my dog and killed my wife! Or something...

But really. Why the hell does everyone hate the Playstation brand so friggen much all the sudden? Do you not remember PS2?

Not saying you have to praise it, but don't have to get all giddy about every little bad thing that happens to the PS3. Just relax, take a Xanax(like the crazy monkey that ripped a chicks face off) it will be OK!

Trust me. Shhh... breath!
360/PS3/PC/Wii Owner Currently playing: U3, Skyrim, AC:R