Xbox One on the way. DRM removed, more details to come.

[dmaul1114]

Sorry, but it's also "out there" to suggest that video games can never evolve, and that 500 years from now a video game console has to be a console, a disc and a TV despite whatever technology is available at the time. Not everything is going to lend itself to being owned forever and ever (a stance that is funny considering this is a board where people lock in Amazon trade-in values of games they haven't even finished yet). Technology has created ideas and concepts that obliterate the accepted understanding of "ownership".

I don't think that's funny at all. Sure, some of the bitching is collectors who want to be able to play their games indefinitely (like they can NES or SNES games etc.) as long as they have a working console, and not be at the mercy of authentication servers that will go offline some day etc.

But a lot of it is people who want to keep their ability to sell/trade games however they want that are especially irate over the DRM stuff. Gaming pales behind several other hobbies for me. 99% of the games I play aren't worth the asking price to me, but become worth it when I factor in being able to sell it myself (and not get raped on GS or Amazon trade in values) and recoup some of the money.

I'm not opposed to digital gaming. I like the convenience--I love MP3s and Kindle books. But for that to happen prices have to drop. I love MP3s not just for the convenience, but because I'm rarely paying more than $8 for an album, and often getting albums on sale for $2-3, lots of free MP3 credit from Amazon for various things etc. Where as before I was mostly buying Cds in the $10-15 range. Same with e-books, pricing isn't as great across the board as it is with MP3s, I still get most of my books for $2-3 and a few for $7-8 and save money over buying paper books in the past.

So for gaming, I'd need something like the Steam pricing model or better to consider making the jump. Most games I'm buying for $20-30 on disc and making $10-15 selling them off after beating them. So I'd need to see digital games dropping to $10-20 within a year to keep gaming at the same rate and feeling I"m getting a decent value. Similarly, I'll buy a couple games at launch for $60 each year as I'm really stoked to play them day one. For digital games, I probably couldn't justify paying more than $40-45 day one for something I was really excited for since I couldn't recoup some money by selling it.

So it's just a matter of whether digital console games get to that pricing model or not that will determine whether I keep gaming when the industry goes fully digital.

 

[Ashane]

Oh it is, but it would have been even worse. Most people go to the store and look for games, they would be really confused if that wasn't possible. It's even worse for kids that don't have credit cards.

Agreed. I think the outcry if they would have went all digital would have made this look like absolutely nothing.

It almost makes me wonder why SteamBox isnt getting the hate as well. My only thought would be because it is being marketed at PC Users who have been fine with the restrictive type of DRM Steam has.

 

[brennok]

As others have said, actually it took years for Steam to be accepted. Steam was hated in the beginning and it was cheaper to buy physical copies because there weren't sales. I remember buying the Orange Box on sale at launch for $19.99 while it was full price on Steam. Microsoft's Games For Windows never was accepted. Origin still for the most part isn't. Most of EA's games require it though so if you want play their games you have no choice. Steam was not a day one success.

Also don't forget Steam has competition from multiple marketplaces.

One of the things it will be interesting to see is whether Microsoft treats the digital and physical products the same. With the PC, you get a code and you can install off the disc or download the game. It is the same product either way the majority of the time. So far every piece of Microsoft news has had fine print applying some of these digital perks to disc based products only. This could mean if you buy the digital version you can't give it to a friend but you could if you had bought the disc version. This would also apply to trading games at authorized retailers. It could also mean only if a game is available both disc and digitally you will be able to, but pure digital products won't. I am guessing it is the first. Otherwise they could apply it to every game or product sold in their store well with the content holders permission.

 

[kcobra22]

wow, complaining about a 24 hour check in and then saying an all digital model would've been better, is ridiculous. It's one thing to force people to check in every 24 hours that would use kilobytes, and its another thing to force every person to download a big game file. Every PC gamer might be ok with that but console gamers in 2013 wouldn't be. The benefit of discs is that you can still install off the disc in shorter time, and then never have to use it again.

 

[htz]

Oh it is, but it would have been even worse. Most people go to the store and look for games, they would be really confused if that wasn't possible. It's even worse for kids that don't have credit cards.

Agreed. I think the outcry if they would have went all digital would have made this look like absolutely nothing.

It almost makes me wonder why SteamBox isnt getting the hate as well. My only thought would be because it is being marketed at PC Users who have been fine with the restrictive type of DRM Steam has.

Nobody would be complaining if MS went full digital, at least nothing about "consumer rights". People know that PC games can't be traded in and given away. What Microsoft is doing is essentially out of nowhere taking what we consider as a "benefit" for buying console games. If I didn't care about trading in games or sharing games, I would had been a PC gamer a long time ago.

 

[Kazuya]

As others have said, actually it took years for Steam to be accepted. Steam was hated in the beginning and it was cheaper to buy physical copies because there weren't sales. I remember buying the Orange Box on sale at launch for $19.99 while it was full price on Steam. Microsoft's Games For Windows never was accepted. Origin still for the most part isn't. Most of EA's games require it though so if you want play their games you have no choice. Steam was not a day one success.

Also don't forget Steam has competition from multiple marketplaces.

One of the things it will be interesting to see is whether Microsoft treats the digital and physical products the same. With the PC, you get a code and you can install off the disc or download the game. It is the same product either way the majority of the time. So far every piece of Microsoft news has had fine print applying some of these digital perks to disc based products only. This could mean if you buy the digital version you can't give it to a friend but you could if you had bought the disc version. This would also apply to trading games at authorized retailers. It could also mean only if a game is available both disc and digitally you will be able to, but pure digital products won't. I am guessing it is the first. Otherwise they could apply it to every game or product sold in their store well with the content holders permission.

I don't know, the discs are just so... insulting to me. They are absolutely jack worthless unless you have slow internet because even if you happen to still have them when you unearth your console from a time capsule in the future, they have nothing to do with what allows you to play the game (activation, 24 hour check in). And with the whole trade in program, the whole process of disassociating the game license from your gamertag could actually be a totally disc-less process. It kinda reminds me of the giant long boxes that made their debut with the sale of compact discs: making you feel better about buying bits and bytes.

Nobody would be complaining if MS went full digital, at least nothing about "consumer rights". People know that PC games can't be traded in and given away. What Microsoft is doing is essentially out of nowhere taking what we consider as a "benefit" for buying console games. If I didn't care about trading in games or sharing games, I would had been a PC gamer a long time ago.

I think they are clearly doing it because their suits and geeks told them that we are not statistically at a broadband penetration rate to pull it off yet. Both Sony and MS would eliminate discs so fast it would make your head spin... if it was feasible. I can only conclude it's not.

 

[htz]

wow, complaining about a 24 hour check in and then saying an all digital model would've been better, is ridiculous. It's one thing to force people to check in every 24 hours that would use kilobytes, and its another thing to force every person to download a big game file. Every PC gamer might be ok with that but console gamers in 2013 wouldn't be. The benefit of discs is that you can still install off the disc in shorter time, and then never have to use it again.

You don't understand, we are complaining that they are doing 24 hour check-in on physical games. If they went fully digital, what is the point of complaining about the check in. We wouldn't be buying the console in the first place. The outrage is on the physical games side which the Xbox One is half-assing the support.

As others have said, actually it took years for Steam to be accepted. Steam was hated in the beginning and it was cheaper to buy physical copies because there weren't sales. I remember buying the Orange Box on sale at launch for $19.99 while it was full price on Steam. Microsoft's Games For Windows never was accepted. Origin still for the most part isn't. Most of EA's games require it though so if you want play their games you have no choice. Steam was not a day one success.

Also don't forget Steam has competition from multiple marketplaces.

One of the things it will be interesting to see is whether Microsoft treats the digital and physical products the same. With the PC, you get a code and you can install off the disc or download the game. It is the same product either way the majority of the time. So far every piece of Microsoft news has had fine print applying some of these digital perks to disc based products only. This could mean if you buy the digital version you can't give it to a friend but you could if you had bought the disc version. This would also apply to trading games at authorized retailers. It could also mean only if a game is available both disc and digitally you will be able to, but pure digital products won't. I am guessing it is the first. Otherwise they could apply it to every game or product sold in their store well with the content holders permission.

I don't know, the discs are just so... insulting to me. They are absolutely jack worthless unless you have slow internet because even if you happen to still have them when you unearth your console from a time capsule in the future, they have nothing to do with what allows you to play the game (activation, 24 hour check in). And with the whole trade in program, the whole process of disassociating the game license from your gamertag could actually be a totally disc-less process. It kinda reminds me of the giant long boxes that made their debut with the sale of compact discs: making you feel better about buying bits and bytes.

Nobody would be complaining if MS went full digital, at least nothing about "consumer rights". People know that PC games can't be traded in and given away. What Microsoft is doing is essentially out of nowhere taking what we consider as a "benefit" for buying console games. If I didn't care about trading in games or sharing games, I would had been a PC gamer a long time ago.

I think they are clearly doing it because their suits and geeks told them that we are not statistically at a broadband penetration rate to pull it off yet. Both Sony and MS would eliminate discs so fast it would make your head spin... if it was feasible. I can only conclude it's not.

We all know why they are not doing it. It's how Microsoft is semi doing it but don't have the balls to go the whole way through with it. So in the end we have this crazy mess with the confusion.

 

[esquire]

The fact of the matter is some people care about DRM and some people don't. Also, some people may care, but they will still get the Xbox One because they will want to play it's exclusives. Jumping on anyone who is going to buy a difference console than you is immature, and stupid. The argument "oh you are a part of ruining the gaming industry" is idiotic as well. Let people spend money on what they want. This whole "war" talk is also funny. Unless you are working for either company, who cares? When I go to a store and buy a Pepsi I don't think "oh!! I got Coca-Cola!!!! The war is on!!!! They won't get my $1.50!!"

Who cares? That argument is what's idiotic. To simply turn a blind eye because it does not affect you personally is apathy, and that apathy affects those who do care and those who it will affect. This mindset comes from not only Microsoft fanboys and apologists, but also includes the low information consumers who have no idea what Microsoft is doing as to the XBone, and will go out and buy it because little Johnny wants his new game console and all his friends are going to be getting one as well. Of course they will spend their money how they like it. People have made bad decisions with their money throughout the ages, hence P.T. Barnum's phrase, "There's a sucker born every minute." That doesn't mean I cannot voice my displeasure with Microsoft's draconian DRM policies, and I think that is what most of us are doing.

To date, I have yet to hear one solid argument from Microsoft as to how its DRM policies are going to benefit me as a consumer as a whole when at the same time they are taking away my consumer rights. Now if there were some believable arguments we might be able to have an in intelligible debate about it, but Microsoft has failed to present any coherent policy, especially as to its family sharing (how exactly does it work?!?!), which seems to me to be an afterthought. Moreover, if you were going to eliminate full outright trading, selling and sharing as it exists now, you'd think they would have had everything resolved up-front prior to their presentation at E3. Rather, it seems they have back-tracking and trying to cover their asses after all of the consumer and media backlash.

You kill me LOL

It clearly does affect me, but that doesn't stop me from playing games that I will want to play. Did I like when games were raised from $50 to $60 ? No. Do I still pay $60 for games I really want? Yes. Did I like paying for xbox live when I got my first xbox? No. Do I still pay for it because I like it's features? Yes.

I also like how you hint at me being a "fanboy" considering I play PC, PS3, and xbox 360 currently. I also have the Xbox One and PS4 both preordered. Clearly I am a xbox fanboy!!

Also, how is people spending money on things they want and are going to use a bad decision? Oh wait.. I know!!! Anything you don't buy but other people do buy is a bad decision.

I have no problem with people voicing their opinions. I understand people have different opinions on everything, but the point where it's getting stupid is where people are "flamed" because they have an opinion that differs from somebody elses.

I never called you nor hinted you were a fanboy. You interjected yourself into the conversation saying it was idiotic, and I merely pointed out whether they don't care about the DRM or are simply someone who buys whatever Microsoft puts in front of you, no questions asked, they are affecting the rights of those who do care about DRM and about how their rights are affected by their decision. It's as simple as that. Not everything is a personal attack like you are apparently imagining it to be. I thought I was making my position clear when I said people can spend their money how they see fit, but that doesn't mean I can't voice my displeasure with Microsoft. Not once in my posts have I attacked any other poster here. I have never flamed anyone in this thread, save Microsoft.

Obviously my post as to bad decisions is an opinion piece. In my opinion it's a bad decision to support DRM with your wallet. What is so hard to comprehend there? I can't help it if you are offended by my opinion or take personal exception to same. You are very welcome to spend your money as you see fit and move along.

If the contents of this Thread offend you or simply are not worth your while, I can' help you there. The tone of this thread is clear from its title and the many pages preceding my post.

 

[brennok]

As others have said, actually it took years for Steam to be accepted. Steam was hated in the beginning and it was cheaper to buy physical copies because there weren't sales. I remember buying the Orange Box on sale at launch for $19.99 while it was full price on Steam. Microsoft's Games For Windows never was accepted. Origin still for the most part isn't. Most of EA's games require it though so if you want play their games you have no choice. Steam was not a day one success.

Also don't forget Steam has competition from multiple marketplaces.

One of the things it will be interesting to see is whether Microsoft treats the digital and physical products the same. With the PC, you get a code and you can install off the disc or download the game. It is the same product either way the majority of the time. So far every piece of Microsoft news has had fine print applying some of these digital perks to disc based products only. This could mean if you buy the digital version you can't give it to a friend but you could if you had bought the disc version. This would also apply to trading games at authorized retailers. It could also mean only if a game is available both disc and digitally you will be able to, but pure digital products won't. I am guessing it is the first. Otherwise they could apply it to every game or product sold in their store well with the content holders permission.

I don't know, the discs are just so... insulting to me. They are absolutely jack worthless unless you have slow internet because even if you happen to still have them when you unearth your console from a time capsule in the future, they have nothing to do with what allows you to play the game (activation, 24 hour check in). And with the whole trade in program, the whole process of disassociating the game license from your gamertag could actually be a totally disc-less process. It kinda reminds me of the giant long boxes that made their debut with the sale of compact discs: making you feel better about buying bits and bytes.

Nobody would be complaining if MS went full digital, at least nothing about "consumer rights". People know that PC games can't be traded in and given away. What Microsoft is doing is essentially out of nowhere taking what we consider as a "benefit" for buying console games. If I didn't care about trading in games or sharing games, I would had been a PC gamer a long time ago.

I think they are clearly doing it because their suits and geeks told them that we are not statistically at a broadband penetration rate to pull it off yet. Both Sony and MS would eliminate discs so fast it would make your head spin... if it was feasible. I can only conclude it's not.

They could possibly be used to reinstall the game though in the future if the download is no longer available, but the servers are available for authentication.

I agree the trade in could be, but their wording says otherwise.

Trade-in and resell your disc-based games: Today, some gamers choose to sell their old disc-based games back for cash and credit. We designed Xbox One so game publishers can enable you to trade in your games at participating retailers. Microsoft does not charge a platform fee to retailers, publishers, or consumers for enabling transfer of these games.

 

[DNukem170]

I don't know about anyone else but if I am going to spend $500 on a device I do my research first. Especially if it was for a child.

It is quite obvious you have never worked retail. I estimate maybe 1 or 2 out of every 15 customers do any research beyond "I just saw an ad about this thing that does the stuff." They don't know what it is called, if it will actually work for them or anything other than one main detail.

 

[Superstar]

I don't know about anyone else but if I am going to spend $500 on a device I do my research first. Especially if it was for a child.

It is quite obvious you have never worked retail. I estimate maybe 1 or 2 out of every 15 customers do any research beyond "I just saw an ad about this thing that does the stuff." They don't know what it is called, if it will actually work for them or anything other than one main detail.

I have worked in retail and saw the same thing. That is the consumers fault for buying blindly.

 

[io]

That you can actually sell used games just like always, but a bit more restrictive, etc.

"A bit more restrictive"? How is the complete inability to sell your game via eBay, Amazon, Craigslist, yard sale, whatever, just a "bit" of anything?

im sure amazon will be one of those allowed buyers of x1 games seeing it seems like amazon was talking non stop about x1 on monday when they said they were proud to announce pre orders are open.

I meant selling on Amazon marketplace, which is just like selling on eBay. I'm sure Amazon will be able to take them for trade-in which is a different matter. "Sell" is not the same as "trade".

I wasnt aware the mods would let us do that. "That" being to have a thread dedicated toward a owners club type of thread where we could report bashing/off topic posts and have them removed.

I guess if it works this thread title could be changed to Xbox One - DRM Discussion or something.

Yeah, sure we could do this. We haven't really had this sort of situation come up before. But if you (or anyone else) wants to make an Xbox One thread that is all about the upcoming games, services, etc, and want to keep it free of the DRM discussion go ahead and make one. I'll add text to the OP outlining the restrictions and referencing this thread.

 

[WV Matsui]

It would be nice to have a thread where people who are actually excited about the X1 can talk about it but I'm sure it will be a pain in the neck for mods because it will get ugly in their too I'm sure.

 

[htz]

It would be nice to have a thread where people who are actually excited about the X1 can talk about it but I'm sure it will be a pain in the neck for mods because it will get ugly in their too I'm sure.

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/topic/313133-the-xbox-one-future-owners-discussion-thread-no-drm-debates-etc/

 

[dmaul1114]

Yeah, sure we could do this. We haven't really had this sort of situation come up before. But if you (or anyone else) wants to make an Xbox One thread that is all about the upcoming games, services, etc, and want to keep it free of the DRM discussion go ahead and make one. I'll add text to the OP outlining the restrictions and referencing this thread.

I already made one earlier--feel free to change the OP.

http://www.cheapassgamer.com/topic/313133-the-xbox-one-future-owners-discussion-thread-no-drm-debates-etc/

 

[Ashane]

While not related to the DRM...

Does anyone else think we'll be able to swap that HD for anything we want shortly after launch once the modders start having fun?

That certainly looks like a standard sized HD, which standard connections to me....

 

[brennok]

While not related to the DRM...

Does anyone else think we'll be able to swap that HD for anything we want shortly after launch once the modders start having fun?

That certainly looks like a standard sized HD, which standard connections to me....

Possibly but they would know. TiVo does something similar. People found a way around it, but they definitely know when your box calls home for guide updates that the drive has been replaced/upgraded. TiVo won't really do anything about it except not accept you into beta. I wouldn't feel as safe with MS.

 

[Kazuya]

While not related to the DRM...

Does anyone else think we'll be able to swap that HD for anything we want shortly after launch once the modders start having fun?

Maybe... but the modders first task will probably be to dispel all of the tinfoil hat stuff with Kinect. Because you know, Microsoft could totally say we can turn Kinect off but still secretly stream an HD stream of us sitting in our boxers playing Xbox straight to Obama's desk. And also, Microsoft COULD put a 4G radio to stream it with so we can't notice it on our network. And then they could pay off all of the gadget teardown sites, hackers, professional engineers, and student techies to totally NOT check if Kinect is off when it says it is.

So it's up to the modders, because Kinect is watching us

 

[Mako1215]

From what I heard the HDD is inaccessible.

 

[Superstar]

While not related to the DRM...

Does anyone else think we'll be able to swap that HD for anything we want shortly after launch once the modders start having fun?

Maybe... but the modders first task will probably be to dispel all of the tinfoil hat stuff with Kinect. Because you know, Microsoft could totally say we can turn Kinect off but still secretly stream an HD stream of us sitting in our boxers playing Xbox straight to Obama's desk. And also, Microsoft COULD put a 4G radio to stream it with so we can't notice it on our network. And then they could pay off all of the gadget teardown sites, hackers, professional engineers, and student techies to totally NOT check if Kinect is off when it says it is.

So it's up to the modders, because Kinect is watching us

I doubt it, unfortunately. The xbox is running on 3 virtual machines. I am not sure how well that would work.

 

[RiPPn]

It's going to be funny when you people that say this DRM policy doesn't affect you buy your Xbox One with Ryse, get it home, realize what a suckfest that game is, and are stuck with it until they enable used game resell.  Or because it sucks so bad it gets blocked from used game resell, gifting, or family sharing and you're stuck with a $60 turd.  Good times.
 
No consumer with any sense about them would support these policies no matter what unproven benefits or games Microsoft might be promising.
 
For those claiming that it's just CAG and other small gaming bubbles that are upset about this, take a look at this poll done by amazon on facebook.  It only allows 1 vote per person and was aimed at Amazon customers, not gaming enthusiasts:
 
https://www.facebook.com/AmazonVideoGames/app_153839431317646
 
PS4 38984 to Xbox One 2162
 
95% of people voted for the PS4.  Sorry it's not just Sony fans that feel this way.  

 

[Ashane]

It's going to be funny when you people that say this DRM policy doesn't affect you buy your Xbox One with Ryse, get it home, realize what a suckfest that game is, and are stuck with it until they enable used game resell. Or because it sucks so bad it gets blocked from used game resell, gifting, or family sharing and you're stuck with a $60 turd. Good times.

No consumer with any sense about them would support these policies no matter what unproven benefits or games Microsoft might be promising.

For those claiming that it's just CAG and other small gaming bubbles that are upset about this, take a look at this poll done by amazon on facebook. It only allows 1 vote per person and was aimed at Amazon customers, not gaming enthusiasts:

https://www.facebook.com/AmazonVideoGames/app_153839431317646

PS4 38984 to Xbox One 2162

95% of people voted for the PS4. Sorry it's not just Sony fans that feel this way.

Look at the numbers in the poll. 150+ million consoles (just between Xbox 360 and PS3, not even counting Wii) and you've got a poll of 40K.

Furthermore, that poll was posted on Reddit numerous times, 4chan, etc.. with people being asked to vote for PS4. Dosent show anything tbh.

 

[ChunLiBarbie]

It's going to be funny when you people that say this DRM policy doesn't affect you buy your Xbox One with Ryse, get it home, realize what a suckfest that game is, and are stuck with it until they enable used game resell. Or because it sucks so bad it gets blocked from used game resell, gifting, or family sharing and you're stuck with a $60 turd. Good times.

No consumer with any sense about them would support these policies no matter what unproven benefits or games Microsoft might be promising.

For those claiming that it's just CAG and other small gaming bubbles that are upset about this, take a look at this poll done by amazon on facebook. It only allows 1 vote per person and was aimed at Amazon customers, not gaming enthusiasts:

https://www.facebook.com/AmazonVideoGames/app_153839431317646

PS4 38984 to Xbox One 2162

95% of people voted for the PS4. Sorry it's not just Sony fans that feel this way.

TFF! Lmao!

 

[TimboSliceGB]

It's going to be funny when you people that say this DRM policy doesn't affect you buy your Xbox One with Ryse, get it home, realize what a suckfest that game is, and are stuck with it until they enable used game resell. Or because it sucks so bad it gets blocked from used game resell, gifting, or family sharing and you're stuck with a $60 turd. Good times.

No consumer with any sense about them would support these policies no matter what unproven benefits or games Microsoft might be promising.

For those claiming that it's just CAG and other small gaming bubbles that are upset about this, take a look at this poll done by amazon on facebook. It only allows 1 vote per person and was aimed at Amazon customers, not gaming enthusiasts:

https://www.facebook.com/AmazonVideoGames/app_153839431317646

PS4 38984 to Xbox One 2162

95% of people voted for the PS4. Sorry it's not just Sony fans that feel this way.

most retail stores allow you 7 days to return video games i do it all the time at gamestop

so your saying people that support drm stuff like steam are dumb gamers and amazon drm game

 

[Thekrakrabbit]

The fact is that while the X1 may be fun to play or may have some good games on it, the PS4 is going to be the more purchased, better liked product. People have been griping about X1 details as they have been trickling out and now that we basically know most of what there is to know about both consoles, the choice is pretty clear for most people.

 

[Superstar]

The fact is that while the X1 may be fun to play or may have some good games on it, the PS4 is going to be the more purchased, better liked product. People have been griping about X1 details as they have been trickling out and now that we basically know most of what there is to know about both consoles, the choice is pretty clear for most people.

Unless you have went to the future and came back to tell us this news, there is no fact in your statement at all.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

The fact is that while the X1 may be fun to play or may have some good games on it, the PS4 is going to be the more purchased, better liked product. People have been griping about X1 details as they have been trickling out and now that we basically know most of what there is to know about both consoles, the choice is pretty clear for most people.

you don't know the people ms is trying to go after wiht x1. Yes they would love hard core gamers to buy x1 but their main consumer is causal gamers looking for the all in one system for their entertainment center.

if people don't follow gaming news they will have no clue what is going on trust me i found that out in l.a talking to people outside of e3 and when i got home some friends i know did not know anything about the drm and 24 hour check thing.

 

[Kazuya]

The fact is that while the X1 may be fun to play or may have some good games on it, the PS4 is going to be the more purchased, better liked product. People have been griping about X1 details as they have been trickling out and now that we basically know most of what there is to know about both consoles, the choice is pretty clear for most people.

Uh, that is most definitely not "a fact".

What I am starting to think is a fact though, is that most of these gripers have to be 16 year olds. Because you would definitely have to have been around 9 to think that Sony is some kind of hero of gaming, power to the people and all that crap. The same Sony who came out with a $600 console, was universally loathed for forcing Blu-Ray down our throats so they could win a format war that gamers didn't care about, and told you to "work two jobs" so you can afford it. But now Sony is the hero of gaming. LOL!

 

[thenutman69321]

The fact is that while the X1 may be fun to play or may have some good games on it, the PS4 is going to be the more purchased, better liked product. People have been griping about X1 details as they have been trickling out and now that we basically know most of what there is to know about both consoles, the choice is pretty clear for most people.

Uh, that is most definitely not "a fact".

What I am starting to think is a fact though, is that most of these gripers have to be 16 year olds. Because you would definitely have to have been around 9 to think that Sony is some kind of hero of gaming, power to the people and all that crap. The same Sony who came out with a $600 console, was universally loathed for forcing Blu-Ray down our throats so they could win a format war that gamers didn't care about, and told you to "work two jobs" so you can afford it. But now Sony is the hero of gaming. LOL!

That was years ago. Opinions change based on what companies do. 6 months ago I could have gone on and on about how much I like MS as a company, now after the decisions they have made about the XBone I can go on and on about how MS can go themselves. Also I don't think anyone thinks Sony is some kind of gamer godsend or anything. People are just happy that they are actually willing to make decisions based on what their customers want. Many people don't want all this ridiculous bullshit surrounding the XBone but MS is basically saying to bad just accept it. While Sony is making decisions that we like.

 

[ChunLiBarbie]

The fact is that while the X1 may be fun to play or may have some good games on it, the PS4 is going to be the more purchased, better liked product. People have been griping about X1 details as they have been trickling out and now that we basically know most of what there is to know about both consoles, the choice is pretty clear for most people.

you don't know the people ms is trying to go after wiht x1. Yes they would love hard core gamers to buy x1 but their main consumer is causal gamers looking for the all in one system for their entertainment center.if people don't follow gaming news they will have no clue what is going on trust me i found that out in l.a talking to people outside of e3 and when i got home some friends i know did not know anything about the drm and 24 hour check thing.

That last sentence is the EXACT point I was going at earlier.

 

[Kazuya]

The fact is that while the X1 may be fun to play or may have some good games on it, the PS4 is going to be the more purchased, better liked product. People have been griping about X1 details as they have been trickling out and now that we basically know most of what there is to know about both consoles, the choice is pretty clear for most people.

Uh, that is most definitely not "a fact".

What I am starting to think is a fact though, is that most of these gripers have to be 16 year olds. Because you would definitely have to have been around 9 to think that Sony is some kind of hero of gaming, power to the people and all that crap. The same Sony who came out with a $600 console, was universally loathed for forcing Blu-Ray down our throats so they could win a format war that gamers didn't care about, and told you to "work two jobs" so you can afford it. But now Sony is the hero of gaming. LOL!

That was years ago. Opinions change based on what companies do. 6 months ago I could have gone on and on about how much I like MS as a company, now after the decisions they have made about the XBone I can go on and on about how MS can go themselves. Also I don't think anyone thinks Sony is some kind of gamer godsend or anything. People are just happy that they are actually willing to make decisions based on what their customers want. People don't want all this ridiculous bullshit surrounding the XBone but MS is basically saying to bad just accept it. While Sony is making decisions that we like.

Yes, so that completely wipes out everything they've done in the past... they could never change again. And it also means, using your six months interval, that it's totally impossible that given another six months the pendulum couldn't swing and Sony couldn't be making decisions you don't happen to like.

I'll say it again: Sony is not a hero of gaming. They also would like nothing more than to can the used market and lock consoles down, and in fact they still can at any time by shifting (gradually or not) to digital. As a matter of fact, many analysts are fairly certain that was what Sony planned to do all along, only to chicken out at the end.

 

[SaraAB]

I don't really care about the argument but I just wanted to make the point that NO ONE has 100% stable Internet that will be on 24/7 for every day of your life. Things happen that can take down the connection just as they can with your cable connection and your phone line. A cell phone tower can go down too, meaning you might have bad service or no service for a while. The simple reason is that things happen, might not happen all the time but they happen. When it happens you will not be happy trust me.

Some examples

My aunt was having landscaping work done, the landscaper accidentally dug up the cable line which meant no cable, phone or Internet for a week since they bundle their services.

A Truck drove down my street last week and snapped my phone line leaving me with no Internet or phone, yes this actually happened.

If you have a storm in your area more problems than I can mention here can occur, taking out your service.

In these cases you will be SOL for the Xbox one and you will simply be at the mercy of the company you have for your service in how fast they may get you up and running again, so either find a good ISP or Cable company that will be responsive and fix your service quickly or you will have to wait to play your console again. I am not sure if any type of service out there guarantees an Internet connection 100% of the time even business class and you will be at the mercy of whatever company is in your area probably.

My point is that MS is acting like an Internet connection is a God given right, but it is not, and no one is entitled to an internet connection that is on 100% of the time.

 

[dmaul1114]

Uh, that is most definitely not "a fact".

What I am starting to think is a fact though, is that most of these gripers have to be 16 year olds. Because you would definitely have to have been around 9 to think that Sony is some kind of hero of gaming, power to the people and all that crap. The same Sony who came out with a $600 console, was universally loathed for forcing Blu-Ray down our throats so they could win a format war that gamers didn't care about, and told you to "work two jobs" so you can afford it. But now Sony is the hero of gaming. LOL!

Who has said Sony is a "hero?" Sony, MS and Nintendo are all big, greedy corporations that care about nothing but getting as much of our money as they can. I don't have any loyalty to any of them.

Next gen I won't buy an X1 because they won't let me sell/trade my games anywhere I want, which is a big deal to me as I sell pretty much every game after beating it. I won't get a Wii U as my Wii mostly gathered dust the couple times I bought one, and I'm fine getting my Nintendo fix on my 3DS. So Sony will get my money since they have more games I want to play than Nintendo, and don't have the DRM scheme MS is implementing. Simple as that. 360 was my most played console this gen, and I didn't pick up a PS3 until very late in the game--and only because of a debacle with my Live account getting hacked and tacking 3+ months to get back (see my blog posts here). And that was largely because I wasn't supporting Sony's $500-600 launch prices on the 20gb and 60gb model, despite the PS2 being my most played console the prior gen.

I don't like spending money, much less to giant corporations like this. So every generation I assess, game line ups, features and negatives that I don't want to support and vote with my wallet by buying the console(s) that best fit my uses and values as a consumer.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

I don't really care about the argument but I just wanted to make the point that NO ONE has 100% stable Internet that will be on 24/7 for every day of your life. Things happen that can take down the connection just as they can with your cable connection and your phone line. A cell phone tower can go down too, meaning you might have bad service or no service for a while. The simple reason is that things happen, might not happen all the time but they happen. When it happens you will not be happy trust me.

Some examples

My aunt was having landscaping work done, the landscaper accidentally dug up the cable line which meant no cable, phone or Internet for a week since they bundle their services.

A Truck drove down my street last week and snapped my phone line leaving me with no Internet or phone, yes this actually happened.

If you have a storm in your area more problems than I can mention here can occur, taking out your service.

In these cases you will be SOL for the Xbox one and you will simply be at the mercy of the company you have for your service in how fast they may get you up and running again, so either find a good ISP or Cable company that will be responsive and fix your service quickly or you will have to wait to play your console again. I am not sure if any type of service out there guarantees an Internet connection 100% of the time even business class and you will be at the mercy of whatever company is in your area probably.

My point is that MS is acting like an Internet connection is a God given right, but it is not, and no one is entitled to an internet connection that is on 100% of the time.

so what if people want to play games on pc that they got on steam in order to play you have to connect to your steam account. oh and before you dig know where your lines are.

 

[thenutman69321]

The fact is that while the X1 may be fun to play or may have some good games on it, the PS4 is going to be the more purchased, better liked product. People have been griping about X1 details as they have been trickling out and now that we basically know most of what there is to know about both consoles, the choice is pretty clear for most people.

Uh, that is most definitely not "a fact".

What I am starting to think is a fact though, is that most of these gripers have to be 16 year olds. Because you would definitely have to have been around 9 to think that Sony is some kind of hero of gaming, power to the people and all that crap. The same Sony who came out with a $600 console, was universally loathed for forcing Blu-Ray down our throats so they could win a format war that gamers didn't care about, and told you to "work two jobs" so you can afford it. But now Sony is the hero of gaming. LOL!

That was years ago. Opinions change based on what companies do. 6 months ago I could have gone on and on about how much I like MS as a company, now after the decisions they have made about the XBone I can go on and on about how MS can go themselves. Also I don't think anyone thinks Sony is some kind of gamer godsend or anything. People are just happy that they are actually willing to make decisions based on what their customers want. People don't want all this ridiculous bullshit surrounding the XBone but MS is basically saying to bad just accept it. While Sony is making decisions that we like.

Yes, so that completely wipes out everything they've done in the past... they could never change again. And it also means, using your six months interval, that it's totally impossible that given another six months the pendulum couldn't swing and Sony couldn't be making decisions you don't happen to like.

I'll say it again: Sony is not a hero of gaming. They also would like nothing more than to can the used market and lock consoles down, and in fact they still can at any time by shifting (gradually or not) to digital. As a matter of fact, many analysts are fairly certain that was what Sony planned to do all along, only to chicken out at the end.

Pretty much yes it does wipe out everything from the past. Those are issues that no longer have any sway in purchasing decisions. They were PS3 purchasing issues. I'll say it again no one is saying Sony is a hero. Of course they would love to cut out the used game market but they have chosen not to, that is what matters, not what their plans were but what they do in the end. They can shift to digital all they want but they will always still be selling discs this console cycle, discs with no fees attached.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

The fact is that while the X1 may be fun to play or may have some good games on it, the PS4 is going to be the more purchased, better liked product. People have been griping about X1 details as they have been trickling out and now that we basically know most of what there is to know about both consoles, the choice is pretty clear for most people.

Uh, that is most definitely not "a fact".

What I am starting to think is a fact though, is that most of these gripers have to be 16 year olds. Because you would definitely have to have been around 9 to think that Sony is some kind of hero of gaming, power to the people and all that crap. The same Sony who came out with a $600 console, was universally loathed for forcing Blu-Ray down our throats so they could win a format war that gamers didn't care about, and told you to "work two jobs" so you can afford it. But now Sony is the hero of gaming. LOL!

That was years ago. Opinions change based on what companies do. 6 months ago I could have gone on and on about how much I like MS as a company, now after the decisions they have made about the XBone I can go on and on about how MS can go themselves. Also I don't think anyone thinks Sony is some kind of gamer godsend or anything. People are just happy that they are actually willing to make decisions based on what their customers want. People don't want all this ridiculous bullshit surrounding the XBone but MS is basically saying to bad just accept it. While Sony is making decisions that we like.

Yes, so that completely wipes out everything they've done in the past... they could never change again. And it also means, using your six months interval, that it's totally impossible that given another six months the pendulum couldn't swing and Sony couldn't be making decisions you don't happen to like.

I'll say it again: Sony is not a hero of gaming. They also would like nothing more than to can the used market and lock consoles down, and in fact they still can at any time by shifting (gradually or not) to digital. As a matter of fact, many analysts are fairly certain that was what Sony planned to do all along, only to chicken out at the end.

Pretty much yes it does wipe out everything from the past. Those are issues that no longer have any sway in purchasing decisions. They were PS3 purchasing issues. I'll say it again no one is saying Sony is a hero. Of course they would love to cut out the used game market but they have chosen not to, that is what matters, not what their plans were but what they do in the end. They can shift to digital all they want but they will always still be selling discs this console cycle, discs with no fees attached.

well to be fair their could be fees attached and what not. Whats to say companys like EA will not put a lock on single player and mp games unless you pay a fee to buy a game pass. sony alrady said they are not blocking companys from things like game/online pass.

Ea has something up their sleeves for this up coming gen NO way they stop doing online passes and lose all that money on ps4.

 

[Kazuya]

They can shift to digital all they want but they will always still be selling discs this console cycle, discs with no fees attached.

Unless you just got out of your time machine, there is no way you can guarantee that. Late in the PSP's life, a lot of the games were digital only, especially 3rd party. While I would think we can take them at their words that the discs they actually do release will be DRM free, there is nothing stopping them from picking a point in time and going digital only from that day forward. They *certainly* can't stop third parties from doing digital only releases. And if you are developing Xbox One, PC and PS4 all at once, at some point why wouldn't you want to stop mass producing useless discs when all of them are getting digital releases day one?

 

[thenutman69321]

well to be fair their could be fees attached and what not. Whats to say companys like EA will not put a lock on single player and mp games unless you pay a fee to buy a game pass. sony alrady said they are not blocking companys from things like game/online pass.

Ea has something up their sleeves for this up coming gen NO way they stop doing online passes and lose all that money on ps4.

Very true. It's online pass only, not game pass but yes this is still very much possible. However EA has already confirmed that they will not be using them on PS4, I'm sure some companies still will though.

They can shift to digital all they want but they will always still be selling discs this console cycle, discs with no fees attached.

Unless you just got out of your time machine, there is no way you can guarantee that. Late in the PSP's life, a lot of the games were digital only, especially 3rd party. While I would think we can take them at their words that the discs they actually do release will be DRM free, there is nothing stopping them from picking a point in time and going digital only from that day forward. They *certainly* can't stop third parties from doing digital only releases. And if you are developing Xbox One, PC and PS4 all at once, at some point why wouldn't you want to stop mass producing useless discs when all of them are getting digital releases day one?

I'll give you that one. I can obviously not guarantee they won't go digital only. I don't personally see it happening but this is just an opinion obviously. I don't think it makes sense financially on consoles. Many gamers still want physical discs and they will lose out on sales releasing digital only.

 

[WolfmanASTN]

It's going to be funny when you people that say this DRM policy doesn't affect you buy your Xbox One with Ryse, get it home, realize what a suckfest that game is, and are stuck with it until they enable used game resell. Or because it sucks so bad it gets blocked from used game resell, gifting, or family sharing and you're stuck with a $60 turd. Good times.

No consumer with any sense about them would support these policies no matter what unproven benefits or games Microsoft might be promising.

For those claiming that it's just CAG and other small gaming bubbles that are upset about this, take a look at this poll done by amazon on facebook. It only allows 1 vote per person and was aimed at Amazon customers, not gaming enthusiasts:

https://www.facebook.com/AmazonVideoGames/app_153839431317646

PS4 38984 to Xbox One 2162

95% of people voted for the PS4. Sorry it's not just Sony fans that feel this way.

most retail stores allow you 7 days to return video games i do it all the time at gamestop

so your saying people that support drm stuff like steam are dumb gamers and amazon drm game

Once you activate the game it is tied to your account for life, there is no way to return the game to the store, you'll have to trade it in as a used game sinc sit has been activated on your account.

And for Steam you can go offline and play all of your games for as long as you want to.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

well to be fair their could be fees attached and what not. Whats to say companys like EA will not put a lock on single player and mp games unless you pay a fee to buy a game pass. sony alrady said they are not blocking companys from things like game/online pass.

Ea has something up their sleeves for this up coming gen NO way they stop doing online passes and lose all that money on ps4.

Very true. It's online pass only, not game pass but yes this is still very much possible. However EA has already confirmed that they will not be using them on PS4, I'm sure some companies still will though.

i just don't trust companys like EA they are saying the money we made from onlinepass is not worth the anger we gave our fans. All EA is doing is trying to not be voted worse company in america and i think sooner or later they will do something to make money on used games on ps4. I will say this if you notice alot of EA and EA sports games have microtransaction things so good chance they make up the loss they have without online pass on people buying in game items

It's going to be funny when you people that say this DRM policy doesn't affect you buy your Xbox One with Ryse, get it home, realize what a suckfest that game is, and are stuck with it until they enable used game resell. Or because it sucks so bad it gets blocked from used game resell, gifting, or family sharing and you're stuck with a $60 turd. Good times.

No consumer with any sense about them would support these policies no matter what unproven benefits or games Microsoft might be promising.

For those claiming that it's just CAG and other small gaming bubbles that are upset about this, take a look at this poll done by amazon on facebook. It only allows 1 vote per person and was aimed at Amazon customers, not gaming enthusiasts:

https://www.facebook.com/AmazonVideoGames/app_153839431317646

PS4 38984 to Xbox One 2162

95% of people voted for the PS4. Sorry it's not just Sony fans that feel this way.

most retail stores allow you 7 days to return video games i do it all the time at gamestop

so your saying people that support drm stuff like steam are dumb gamers and amazon drm game

Once you activate the game it is tied to your account for life, there is no way to return the game to the store, you'll have to trade it in as a used game sinc sit has been activated on your account.

And for Steam you can go offline and play all of your games for as long as you want to.

they would just deactivate if you return the game for a full refund it's not hard to do if they can do it for used games.

steam games sometimes do require you to access intenret if your game files need to be updated. if you don't connect your games will not run.

 

[thenutman69321]

well to be fair their could be fees attached and what not. Whats to say companys like EA will not put a lock on single player and mp games unless you pay a fee to buy a game pass. sony alrady said they are not blocking companys from things like game/online pass.

Ea has something up their sleeves for this up coming gen NO way they stop doing online passes and lose all that money on ps4.

Very true. It's online pass only, not game pass but yes this is still very much possible. However EA has already confirmed that they will not be using them on PS4, I'm sure some companies still will though.

i just don't trust companys like EA they are saying the money we made from onlinepass is not worth the anger we gave our fans. All EA is doing is trying to not be voted worse company in america and i think sooner or later they will do something to make money on used games on ps4. I will say this if you notice alot of EA and EA sports games have microtransaction things so good chance they make up the loss they have without online pass on people buying in game items

I don't trust them either that's for sure and I've been trying to figure out their end game since they announced no more online passes. I'm sure they are going to nickel and dime the crap out of consumers with micro transactions and crap dlc. I would think most of that stuff would be released on both consoles though. Other than online passes I can't think of what they could do to make extra money on just PS4.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

i would not be shocked if alot of companys go away with online passes and focus on micro transactions and dlc. 

 

[aptanor]

I don't really care about the argument but I just wanted to make the point that NO ONE has 100% stable Internet that will be on 24/7 for every day of your life. Things happen that can take down the connection just as they can with your cable connection and your phone line. A cell phone tower can go down too, meaning you might have bad service or no service for a while. The simple reason is that things happen, might not happen all the time but they happen. When it happens you will not be happy trust me.
Some examples
My aunt was having landscaping work done, the landscaper accidentally dug up the cable line which meant no cable, phone or Internet for a week since they bundle their services.
A Truck drove down my street last week and snapped my phone line leaving me with no Internet or phone, yes this actually happened.
If you have a storm in your area more problems than I can mention here can occur, taking out your service.
In these cases you will be SOL for the Xbox one and you will simply be at the mercy of the company you have for your service in how fast they may get you up and running again, so either find a good ISP or Cable company that will be responsive and fix your service quickly or you will have to wait to play your console again. I am not sure if any type of service out there guarantees an Internet connection 100% of the time even business class and you will be at the mercy of whatever company is in your area probably.
My point is that MS is acting like an Internet connection is a God given right, but it is not, and no one is entitled to an internet connection that is on 100% of the time.

so what if people want to play games on pc that they got on steam in order to play you have to connect to your steam account. oh and before you dig know where your lines are.

You can play steam games in offline mode all day long. I used to do it all the time when I didn't have a home internet connection. Also, if you're offline, how would the files know they need to download an update (hint:,they don't, and therefore don't require to update).
I really wish people would stop using the steam analogy, it's not really applicable at all, it's an entirely different ball game.

 

[thenutman69321]

i would not be shocked if alot of companys go away with online passes and focus on micro transactions and dlc.

Oh ya that crap is just gonna keep becoming more and more prevalent in all games. In fact I think I remember reading a story awhile back that all EA games must have microtransactions in them.

 

[TimboSliceGB]

sooner or later every game will be striped down game that if you want more missions and what not you have to pay money for it i hate where gaming is going these days when it comes to that stuff. I miss the 80's and 90's and early 00's when game companys did not care about money and wanted to make a great single player game. Now games are 6-7 hour single player and focus is on mp and add mp to games that should never have mp.

 

[gotdott]

i would not be shocked if alot of companys go away with online passes and focus on micro transactions and dlc.

Oh ya that crap is just gonna keep becoming more and more prevalent in all games. In fact I think I remember reading a story awhile back that all EA games must have microtransactions in them.

Battlefield 4 is going to have micro transactions out the ass

 

[TimboSliceGB]

i would not be shocked if alot of companys go away with online passes and focus on micro transactions and dlc.

Oh ya that crap is just gonna keep becoming more and more prevalent in all games. In fact I think I remember reading a story awhile back that all EA games must have microtransactions in them.

Battlefield 4 is going to have micro transactions out the ass

nothing can be more worse then allowing people to pay 50 bucks to unlock everything on bf3 so non good players stop crying that game is too hard becasue the good players have unlocked alot of stuff. i stop playing bf3 right when that garbage came out. i worked my behind off to unlock alot of my stuff and then 7 months after game is out they allow people to pay 50 bucks to unlock everything with out work lol.

only games i think micro transactions are ok is sports games and racing games and fighting games. I don't mind if someone wants to pay a doller or two for trading cards on say madden and a new race car and fighter.

 

[RiPPn]

most retail stores allow you 7 days to return video games i do it all the time at gamestop

o your saying people that support drm stuff like steam are dumb gamers and amazon drm game

GameStop is the only retail store that allows this and they don't refund you they allow you to use the credit toward another purchase. However if Microsoft is blocking trades on that title, it will be out of GameStops hands. A good example is when you buy a Game on Demand and change your mind can you get a refund? Good luck, and that is Microsofts future.

 

[gotdott]

i would not be shocked if alot of companys go away with online passes and focus on micro transactions and dlc.

Oh ya that crap is just gonna keep becoming more and more prevalent in all games. In fact I think I remember reading a story awhile back that all EA games must have microtransactions in them.

Battlefield 4 is going to have micro transactions out the ass

nothing can be more worse then allowing people to pay 50 bucks to unlock everything on bf3 so non good players stop crying that game is too hard becasue the good players have unlocked alot of stuff. i stop playing bf3 right when that garbage came out. i worked my behind off to unlock alot of my stuff and then 7 months after game is out they allow people to pay 50 bucks to unlock everything with out work lol.

Eh? The shortcut packs don't cost that much and have been around (see Bad Company 2). The good players would never pay to unlock anything they could easily do in a week or two. The Battlefield 4 micro-transactions are going to be in the form of booster packs a la Mass Effect where you unlock camos/dog tags and cosmetic goodies (assuming character customization makes it in the final product) and these wont alter gameplay and can be unlocked by just playing. I welcome this.

EDIT: I just saw the "ultimate" shortcut bundle lol

 

[TimboSliceGB]

most retail stores allow you 7 days to return video games i do it all the time at gamestop

o your saying people that support drm stuff like steam are dumb gamers and amazon drm game

GameStop is the only retail store that allows this and they don't refund you they allow you to use the credit toward another purchase. However if Microsoft is blocking trades on that title, it will be out of GameStops hands. A good example is when you buy a Game on Demand and change your mind can you get a refund? Good luck, and that is Microsofts future.

i get refunds on open games from bestbuy,target,walmart all the time