Xbox One on the way. DRM removed, more details to come.

[Ryuukishi]

Don't know if this is posted here but http://kotaku.com/forza-5-isnt-all-on-the-disc-807808829

I mean nothing against the One, but what is the point of a disc then. I mean with Steam when you buy a game on Disc, you get the full game ready to install. Sure there might be updates but it's still a full copy. This is just crazy. Plus some people don't have the download speed to support it sadly.

That kinda makes me feel bad for Turn 10. They programmed their game to work this way when the console itself still required you to go online every day. Now they look like shits because the console ditched that requirement, but their game still requires a mandatory download to work.

Actually I wonder if this won't be an issue with a lot of the first wave of Xbox One games. They'll have mandatory online features, because at the time they were designed, they could rely on the console being online.

 

[mr.me]

I really don't know how this is a bad thing. They are going to continue development for much longer and hopefully produce a much better launch game. Everyone gets pissed when a game gets released with a ton of bugs and we have to wait for a patch. This may cure that. Developer will have much longer to work on games and this may help with delays etc.

I'm all for it. Some may hate it. But I can tell you I have made plenty of decisions that are work related where we had to say do we continue to do things for people who don't have high speed Internet or do we finally break away from that small percentage and say here is the full experience and if you want that you will need to get high speed Internet. The percentage is so small the benefits to the company and then overall consumer outweigh the folks that will get pissed by you shifting to this policy

Can't wait to see the heat I take from this one. Get out your pitchforks and torches.

Exactly. Why shouldn't they be allowed to knowingly release unfinished games? Like WV said, it will be for fixing bugs even though the article doesn't say that anywhere. And of course the download should be required to play the game, what did you think you were getting when you only paid $60?! A full game?! That would be ridiculous!

 

[thenutman69321]

I really don't know how this is a bad thing. They are going to continue development for much longer and hopefully produce a much better launch game. Everyone gets pissed when a game gets released with a ton of bugs and we have to wait for a patch. This may cure that. Developer will have much longer to work on games and this may help with delays etc.

It sounds like what you're basically describing is a simple day 1 patch which already exist this gen and are just fine because they are not required in any way. What the linked article is describing is the game won't work without the download. Also as I said day 1 patches exist already and games are still released buggy and glitchy as shit all the time so I see no reason this would fix that. If anything it's gotten far worse this gen because of the fact they can not break deadlines then just try and fix all the problem later.

Maybe I'll give launch games the benefit of the doubt and assume they were designed differently because of the internet check ins and maybe don't have time to change it. After a few months I definitely wouldn't buy a game that has this sort of mandatory download for single player in place.

 

[Mippo]

That kinda makes me feel bad for Turn 10. They programmed their game to work this way when the console itself still required you to go online every day. Now they look like shits because the console ditched that requirement, but their game still requires a mandatory download to work.

Actually I wonder if this won't be an issue with a lot of the first wave of Xbox One games. They'll have mandatory online features, because at the time they were designed, they could rely on the console being online.

It's because they know the Online Only DRM is still built into the Xbox One and will likely be re-activated later anyway. In the meantime, they can force their own DRM on you by forcing you to download and connect to their servers before allowing you to play their game. I wouldn't be surprised if other "launch" games start doing this as well. This is just forced DRM on the Xbox One, it's what you get if you buy this system and the precise reason you should never buy an Xbox One. It just proves that all of you that said the DRM is gone on the Xbox One were flat out wrong. If this isn't DRM, what is it?

 

[WV Matsui]

It's because they know the Online Only DRM is still built into the Xbox One and will likely be re-activated later anyway. In the meantime, they can force their own DRM on you by forcing you to download and connect to their servers before allowing you to play their game. I wouldn't be surprised if other "launch" games start doing this as well. This is just forced DRM on the Xbox One, it's what you get if you buy this system and the precise reason you should never buy an Xbox One. It just proves that all of you that said the DRM is gone on the Xbox One were flat out wrong. If this isn't DRM, what is it?



This is a patch. Not DRM. The X1 has a day one patch as well. Seriously?

 

[kcobra22]

must be a slow week if you guys can only complain about a free day one patch

 

[Ashane]

That kinda makes me feel bad for Turn 10. They programmed their game to work this way when the console itself still required you to go online every day. Now they look like shits because the console ditched that requirement, but their game still requires a mandatory download to work.

Actually I wonder if this won't be an issue with a lot of the first wave of Xbox One games. They'll have mandatory online features, because at the time they were designed, they could rely on the console being online.

/Agreed.

Feel really bad for Turn 10. It's not like they set out to upset gamers. They were given a console that required a online connection, so naturally they designed a game around that concept.

I think way back when in this thread we discussed this very thing, that a large portion of the xbox one's initial games would likely need some severe reworking with the always online requirement dropped.

 

[Mippo]

This is a patch. Not DRM. The X1 has a day one patch as well. Seriously?

No, it's not a patch. The game will not work without the download meaning what you have on the disc is completely worthless. That means you are downloading the actual game in order to get it to work, not a patch. If this were simply a patch than there would be a playable version on the disc, which there isn't. This is flat out Xbox One DRM.

 

[Ashane]

It's amazing how you read the poll and ignored all of the data but ignoring the data in front of you is about the only way you could even be considering purchasing an Xbox One so I guess this is pretty par for the course.

Did you vote in the poll?

It wasnt exactly a perfect method here, considering games you were excited for on the PS4 side were all PS4 games. Games on the X1 side were X1 and PS4 games. (huh?) Not to mention which, if you voted on the PS4 side you could instantly vote on the X1 side as well. (Since it was two separate polls, not one poll with a radio choice that determined which side you got)

Regardless, if you simply look at launch.. it was close. Far closer then any other poll the internet has had. Those saying they intend to buy one in a year are clearly on the fence for both consoles. If they were excited about them, they would buy them immediately.

Nice dig by the way at the end Cant be because the X1 has more exclusives I like, or a better feature set for my family. Nope, has to be because I'm stupid! Yep, that's it!

 

[Monsta Mack]

I really dont understand how Xbox Live is a better service than PSN Plus.

PSN Plus offerings > Gold Offerings.

Though to be fair MS has brought the heat the last few WEEKS. So let's hope the trend continues ($10 Borderlands 2 being the biggest one, and the Capcom discounts are pretty steep this week). MS is also letting people keep the games when they lose subscription which is better then Sony's attitude that you must actively subscribe to keep your PSN+ games. Though we aren't sure MS will keep offering free games after December, they said they may continue based on "feedback" so all my friends are downloading games they already own just to show MS that they want this program continued.

Now online is a different story. MS has always bad a better online experience though to many that never justified the $60 a year (but who pays $60? This is CAG. Got a year live for $30 or so every year so far). Sony has to step their game up outside of "sharing" videos on the PS4 - Has to match high level download speeds of the XBox 360, offer more dedicated servers (looking at XB1 lots of stuff will be dedicated vs peer to peer), and just the overall quality that XB1 will provide. I don't trust a lot of stuff MS does nowawadays but one thing is for certain: MS will have a strong online experience with XB1.

 

[Mippo]

That kinda makes me feel bad for Turn 10. They programmed their game to work this way when the console itself still required you to go online every day. Now they look like shits because the console ditched that requirement, but their game still requires a mandatory download to work.

Actually I wonder if this won't be an issue with a lot of the first wave of Xbox One games. They'll have mandatory online features, because at the time they were designed, they could rely on the console being online.

Then Turn 10 needs to do the correct thing and push back the release date if their game is not ready. Sorry but I have zero sympathy for a developer that is forcing DRM down everyone's throats.

 

[Deader2818]

Did you vote in the poll?

It wasnt exactly a perfect method here, considering games you were excited for on the PS4 side were all PS4 games. Games on the X1 side were X1 and PS4 games. (huh?) Not to mention which, if you voted on the PS4 side you could instantly vote on the X1 side as well. (Since it was two separate polls, not one poll with a radio choice that determined which side you got)

Regardless, if you simply look at launch.. it was close. Far closer then any other poll the internet has had. Those saying they intend to buy one in a year are clearly on the fence for both consoles. If they were excited about them, they would buy them immediately.

Nice dig by the way at the end Cant be because the X1 has more exclusives I like, or a better feature set for my family. Nope, has to be because I'm stupid! Yep, that's it!

How can we simply look at launch, when the 39% for X1 is Launch + Within the year?

the 41% for PS3 is just for launch. Then another 39% said within the first year.

 

[Ashane]

Then Turn 10 needs to do the correct thing and push back the release date if their game is not ready. Sorry but I have zero sympathy for a developer that is forcing DRM down everyone's throats.

DRM is not a one time day one patch.

DRM is consistent, every hour, every day, every week, every month. Please read up about DRM to know what exactly it is.

Examples:

If I have to log in to Turn 10's servers every time I play Forza? That's DRM.

If I have to authenticate that I own the game via a server check? That's DRM.

If I have to authenticate every 24 hours, or every week? That's DRM.

If I have to download a patch to update the game at launch? That's not DRM.

Next you'll be trying to tell us that a always online game such as Division or Crew is actually DRM in disguise!

How can we simply look at launch, when the 39% for X1 is Launch + Within the year?

the 41% for PS3 is just for launch. Then another 39% said within the first year.

Which is why the poll is a bit wonky, because both of those answers were separate. Why were they combined? Don't know. Why were there PS4 games on the X1 side? Don't know. Why did they discuss hours of play on the PS4 and not the X1? Don't know.

 

[Deader2818]

If the poll is wonky then and doesn't make sense, shouldn't it just be ignored by both sides for any actual data gathering?

 

[Ashane]

If the poll is wonky then and doesn't make sense, shouldn't it just be ignored by both sides for any actual data gathering?

Well, when I posted it I did say it looked like flame bait From the argumentative title on one side, the gushing title on the other.

I was more interested in the graph of importance frankly, which seemed to be roughly the same for both sides. (Showing either that the same people voted for both or that the issues were roughly similar)

Specifically the price being the most important thing for the X1. Going back to our discussion about the possibility of a Kinect-less X1, if price was the key deciding factor (or most important factor would be better worded) would a version cheaper than the PS4 sway a lot of those votes.

 

[mr.me]

This is a patch. Not DRM. The X1 has a day one patch as well. Seriously?

Yep. We know it's a patch for the game because we're going by what the article meant, not what it said. Don't you people have any reading comprehension?!

 

[Mippo]

DRM is not a one time day one patch.

Yes, it is. Since the disc is not playable, they are authenticating that you own the game before you can play it. Only after that authentication is made, will you be able to download a "patch" that makes the game playable. That is the exact definition of DRM. What happens when Forze releases a new game and shuts off the servers. Well, that just kills the entire used game market for the game because without the servers, anybody purchasing a used disc can't play the game. Also, at any point in time, if not at release, they can limit the number of "authentications" or charge for new accounts to download the "patch" to make the game playable.

All of this is DRM courtesy of the Xbox One.

 

[mr.me]

Which is why the poll is a bit wonky, because both of those answers were separate. Why were they combined? Don't know. Why were there PS4 games on the X1 side? Don't know. Why did they discuss hours of play on the PS4 and not the X1? Don't know.

Great observation! We have no idea why they were combined, we just know that pretending like they weren't combined makes our argument look better! Don't you know anything about debating, Deader2818?! Make stuff up and you always win!

 

[esquire]

Don't know if this is posted here but http://kotaku.com/forza-5-isnt-all-on-the-disc-807808829

I mean nothing against the One, but what is the point of a disc then. I mean with Steam when you buy a game on Disc, you get the full game ready to install. Sure there might be updates but it's still a full copy. This is just crazy. Plus some people don't have the download speed to support it sadly.

Not just that, but this now takes us back to people's original concerns with the always-on requirement and the Microsoft servers being turned off after the nextgen is over. What happens when you uninstall FORZA 5 from the XBone to make space for other games, but then later down the road you want to play the game again but can't because the servers are now shut down when you have to "re-install" the game.

Sheez Microsoft. Why do you have to keep ing things up. Keep It Simple Stupid.

 

[Ashane]

Yes, it is. Since the disc is not playable, they are authenticating that you own the game before you can play it. Only after that authentication is made, will you be able to download a "patch" that makes the game playable. That is the exact definition of DRM. What happens when Forze releases a new game and shuts off the servers. Well, that just kills the entire used game market for the game because without the servers, anybody purchasing a used disc can't play the game. Also, at any point in time, if not at release, they can limit the number of "authentications" or charge for new accounts to download the "patch" to make the game playable.

All of this is DRM courtesy of the Xbox One.

What? You are literally making crap up as you go.... LOL.

The article clearly states it's a patch. Primarily for Drivatars. The intent being that they can keep "training" them up until the very moment the system actually launches, for those that do not wish to be online. Keep in mind, you have to update the system when you buy it.. therefor you still must have a online connection to begin with. (You remember that right? That should be your primary concern if you really are upset about it, since the system itself must connect when you buy it )

//Edit// They should just call it always online tbh.. he's basically saying it as well at the end of the article:

"“All of the cloud and online features make the game far, far better,” Greenawalt summed up. “In fact I’d even say revolutionary. The things we’re doing with opponents and Drivatar are not something that anyone can envision unless you’ve played it. But we’re trying to get as much of that into the unconnected, offline mode as well."

 

[esquire]

I really don't know how this is a bad thing. They are going to continue development for much longer and hopefully produce a much better launch game. Everyone gets pissed when a game gets released with a ton of bugs and we have to wait for a patch. This may cure that. Developer will have much longer to work on games and this may help with delays etc.

I'm all for it. Some may hate it. But I can tell you I have made plenty of decisions that are work related where we had to say do we continue to do things for people who don't have high speed Internet or do we finally break away from that small percentage and say here is the full experience and if you want that you will need to get high speed Internet. The percentage is so small the benefits to the company and then overall consumer outweigh the folks that will get pissed by you shifting to this policy

Can't wait to see the heat I take from this one. Get out your pitchforks and torches.

You're for everything Microsoft does, so this comes as no surprise.

These are not patches. These are required downloads that must be made before you can even play the damn game.

What this means is that either DRM is being re-implemented or they are selling incomplete games. Either way this is not good for consumers no matter how you want to color it.

 

[Ashane]

You're for everything Microsoft does, so this comes as no surprise.

These are not patches. These are required downloads that must be made before you can even play the damn game.

What this means is that either DRM is being re-implemented or they are selling incomplete games. Either way this is not good for consumers no matter how you want to color it.

Bolded part IMO

The way he talks elsewhere in the article, it makes it seem as if they had to submit it to Microsoft, well before the DRM debate even hit. MIcrosoft does a 180, now they have to either roll the dice on a always online racer, or attempt to change it up.. but must resubmit it as a offline racer immediately.

Thus, the game simply is not complete at the moment and wont be complete by the time the discs go to press, so they'll keep updating the drivatars and other crap, then release it as a required patch.

 

[Deader2818]

They could just, delay the game till its ready. Not like that doesnt ever happen.

 

[esquire]

What? You are literally making crap up as you go.... LOL.

The article clearly states it's a patch. Primarily for Drivatars. The intent being that they can keep "training" them up until the very moment the system actually launches, for those that do not wish to be online. Keep in mind, you have to update the system when you buy it.. therefor you still must have a online connection to begin with. (You remember that right? That should be your primary concern if you really are upset about it, since the system itself must connect when you buy it )

//Edit// They should just call it always online tbh.. he's basically saying it as well at the end of the article:

"“All of the cloud and online features make the game far, far better,” Greenawalt summed up. “In fact I’d even say revolutionary. The things we’re doing with opponents and Drivatar are not something that anyone can envision unless you’ve played it. But we’re trying to get as much of that into the unconnected, offline mode as well."[/size]

Ashane, now you're starting to sound like an apologist. It doesn't say "patch" anywhere in the article or the quote.

Witness Forza 5, which even when you buy it on disc, needs to download more of the game online the first time you fire it up.

So when you first boot up the game, we’re going to ask you to log in. And when you log in you’re going to get the Drivatars and you’re also going to get a whole bunch of content: tracks and cars. Our production schedule is such that we are putting them in as late as possible and that means making them free as downloadable content on Day One.

 

[mr.me]

What? You are literally making crap up as you go.... LOL.

The article clearly states it's a patch. Primarily for Drivatars. The intent being that they can keep "training" them up until the very moment the system actually launches, for those that do not wish to be online. Keep in mind, you have to update the system when you buy it.. therefor you still must have a online connection to begin with. (You remember that right? That should be your primary concern if you really are upset about it, since the system itself must connect when you buy it )

Yeah it clearly states it's a patch, exact quote,"And when you log in you’re going to get the Drivatars and you’re also going to get a whole bunch of content: tracks and cars." See?! That sentence clearly says," This is a patch".

Further more we know this isn't DRM because companies never hide anything from us. If it was DRM they would say right off the bat, "This is DRM". We know for a fact that it won't be connected to our Xbox account and prevent other people from downloading the "patch" because it clearly states,"This won't be connected to your Xbox account".

You guys need to look at the article harder until you see what we see in it: everything but the words on the page!

 

[Ashane]

Ashane, now you're starting to sound like an apologist. It doesn't say "patch" anywhere in the article or the quote.

Simply because it add's content it's now not a patch? Is that how console's work? Because it's not how PC's work....

A vast majority of PC games require "Day 1" patches. It's pretty normal, and nothing at all to get worked up about. Some even offer you free content as well with these patches. (Off the top of my head, Sega did it for several PC games, as well as others)

I guess if it's a big deal to you guys that's fine of course. Those forums who seem excited about Forza are not making a big deal out of it however, so I do not see any issue with the actual installed base who will be buying Forza.

 

[blueweltall]

It's a free patch so I don't really see what the problem is, considering your going to have to update your Xbox one on the first day for it to work anyway.

 

[kcobra22]

So this gen became familiar with day one paid dlc...and you guys also hate day one free dlc? interesting.

 

[esquire]

Simply because it add's content it's now not a patch? Is that how console's work? Because it's not how PC's work....

A vast majority of PC games require "Day 1" patches. It's pretty normal, and nothing at all to get worked up about. Some even offer you free content as well with these patches. (Off the top of my head, Sega did it for several PC games, as well as others)

I guess if it's a big deal to you guys that's fine of course. Those forums who seem excited about Forza are not making a big deal out of it however, so I do not see any issue with the actual installed base who will be buying Forza.

Careful now, you're going further down that slippery slope to becoming like WV Matsui and Timbo by making generalizations and assumptions and then implying that I am not part of those actually wanting to buy the game, and therefore shouldn't have anything to say about it.

First, you obviously didn't read my multiple posts from last week commenting how I was excited for FORZA 5 and even posed a few questions about the footage WV Matsui posted - actual gameplay or video. Of course no one responded and I even made mention of that. So I am part of the "actual installed base" (For the record I have FORZA 1, 2, 3 and Horizon)

Second, you don't have to be part of the installed base to have an issue with this because if they are going to do this for a release title, they will most likely do it on other titles as well, 1st and 3rd party. They are basically sneaking back in the 24-Hour DRM but crafting it as something else.

 

[mr.me]

Simply because it add's content it's now not a patch? Is that how console's work? Because it's not how PC's work....

A vast majority of PC games require "Day 1" patches. It's pretty normal, and nothing at all to get worked up about. Some even offer you free content as well with these patches. (Off the top of my head, Sega did it for several PC games, as well as others)

I guess if it's a big deal to you guys that's fine of course. Those forums who seem excited about Forza are not making a big deal out of it however, so I do not see any issue with the actual installed base who will be buying Forza.

Great point! A patch isn't for correcting bugs or anything, it's the same thing as DLC! Remember all the cool new maps, gameplay modes and campaigns we've gotten from other patched games in the past and remember how said patched games had a mandatory download of those patches?!

You guys need a serious memory jog and if you still can't remember you need to create that memory yourself, that's what we did!

 

[Ashane]

So this gen became familiar with day one paid dlc...and you guys also hate day one free dlc? interesting.

Not to argue for them, but I think they are upset that they are required to get it. It seems that distinction really sits wrong with a certain subset of people.

Careful now, your going down that slippery slope by accusing me of not being part of those actually not wanting to buy the game, and therefore I shouldn't have anything to say about it.

First, you obviously didn't read my multiple posts from last commenting how I was excited for FORZA 5 and even posed a few questions about the footage WV Matsui posted - actual gameplay or video. Of course no one responded and I even made mention of that. So I am part of the "actual installed base" (For the record I have FORZA 1, 2, 3 and Horizon)

Second, you don't have to be part of the installed base to have an issue with this because if they are going to do this for a 1st Party release title, they will most likely do it on other titles as well, 1st and 3rd party. They are basically sneaking back in the 24-Hour DRM but crafting it as something else.

I did not accuse you of not being part of that group, I simply said that the forums dedicated to that type do not seem as "up in arms" over it as CAG does. (http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/forums/thread/6177118.aspx being the prime example, a forum I sub at that is specifically for Forza)

Funny on the last point too, I was actually just going through the list of launch day or near launch titles and wondering if any other game would have that issue. The clear one I saw was Titanfall, but since we know it has no single player and is only multi player, I'm not sure how people would react considering they know they have to have internet to even play it.

 

[Ashane]

Great point! A patch isn't for correcting bugs or anything, it's the same thing as DLC! Remember all the cool new maps, gameplay modes and campaigns we've gotten from other patched games in the past and remember how said patched games had a mandatory download of those patches?!

You guys need a serious memory jog and if you still can't remember you need to create that memory yourself, that's what we did!

Your funny sir

Anyway, since I never like doing anything without sources...

http://blogs.sega.com/totalwar/2009/06/18/update-13-features-list/

14 Free Units have been included in this patch, adding a large amount of diversity to the playable factions and the armies the player will face.

Welcome to the PC world, where patches include free DLC type stuff!

 

[mr.me]

Your funny sir

Anyway, since I never like doing anything without sources...

http://blogs.sega.com/totalwar/2009/06/18/update-13-features-list/

14 Free Units have been included in this patch, adding a large amount of diversity to the playable factions and the armies the player will face.

Welcome to the PC world, where patches include free DLC type stuff!

I know, I'm on your side brah!

Thanks for the source about one PC game! That finally proves to them that console patches are the same as DLC and always required! Well done!

 

[WV Matsui]

This isn't even worth it anymore. Really isn't. What a bunch a dickheads.

 

[ChunLiBarbie]

Damn. Microsoft's minions are still in full effect. Note to Xbone Marketing Administrators, pushing your reps to constantly battle is obnoxious.

Where's the Xbox One next to Xbox 360 on here?

Like PS3 has PS3 and PS4.

 

[Ashane]

This isn't even worth it anymore. Really isn't. What a bunch a dickheads.

You take it to personal

People like meme, and some of the others are everywhere on the internet. Some are better trolls than others, but in the end that's all it is.

Let it ride and have discussions with people that actually want to have discussions, ignore the rest. It does not help however that you constantly bring up the PS4 on this thread and try to somehow bash it. While I understand its frustrating having people come here and bash the X1, and they bash the X1 on the PS4 thread... does not mean we need to do it to.

Just stick with what has you excited about the console as the new details emerge for various things and the thread will be that much better. Eventually trolls tire and go away, and even if they don't they are good for a laugh or two

 

[pitfallharry219]

Eventually trolls tire and go away, and even if they don't they are good for a laugh or two

Here's your source on that:

This isn't even worth it anymore. Really isn't. What a bunch a dickheads.

 

[Ashane]

Here's your source on that:

LOL!

Touche good sir!

 

[mr.me]

What a bunch a dickheads.

Sweet, I always wanted to be just like you!

People like meme, and some of the others are everywhere on the internet. Some are better trolls than others, but in the end that's all it is.

Dude, first of all it's mr.me not meme and second I've been defending you!

Let it ride and have discussions with people that actually want to have discussions, ignore the rest.

Very good point! Just do what Ashane and I do: ignore any valid points posted, especially those with sources! If you absolutely have to reply, then just pick out from the source what benefits you and ignore the rest, that way it appears that you're winning the debate!

 

[RiPPn]

I like the exclusive retail game definition at the bottom, which took away Fable 3, Halo Anniversary, Alan Wake, Splinter Cell: Conviction and many other games on the 360 side.

Had they included HD remakes, the list would have been far more skewed as Playstation has had several, where the 360 had what, 2 in Halo and Fable? But then including console exclusives would probably balance out the PS3 HD remakes advantage by adding Alan Wake, Fable 3, First Templar, Minecraft, Splinter Cell: Conviction, Witcher 2, giving 6 more titles to the 360. However both HD remakes and console exclusives can be played elsewhere so including either would start blurring the line of what an exclusive is, so I can see why they excluded them, and it wasn't to favor one console over the other like the tone of your comment implies as it really wouldn't have changed the discrepancy.

 

[dmaul1114]

I don't really care about day 1 required patches or whatever you want to call them.

I get they suck that for people who don't always have high speed net access.  But that will never be me.  I grew up in WV and didn't get out until undergrad and loathed all 22 years.  My parents still don't have any decent internet access--some radio wave based crap that gets 1.5 down IF the weather is fine.  If it's even windy the antenna shakes and internet is slow and drops in and out.  No cable on their road other than a local outfit ran by one guy that will never offer internet.  Only hope is that the company that bought out Verizon for phone service runs DSL out there.  But it's so rural and sparsely populated on that road (mostly woods and cow farms) I don't know that they ever will.

Anyway, point being I'd never live outside of a major metro area after getting out and spending 7 years in the DC area for grad school and the past 4 years of living in midtown Atlanta so that stuff would never affect me.

I only care about it when it's DRM and keeps me from selling my games however I want.  I don't mind required patches, updates etc. personally.