Dark Souls II - Scholar of the First Sin - April 7, 2015

[guardian_owl]

They have dedicated servers for this one, Dark Souls 1 was peer to peer as I understand it is why this is so much better.

Supposedly the boss of the Black Gulch is the quite easy with Lucatiel, it also drops a soul in NG+ that you need 2 of for NPC trader so it works out well for you Io. The Wharf boss is also supposedly fairly easy.

The mist boss in the smelter demon chamber is another incarnation of the Pursuer, he's like Nemesis from Resident Evil 3, he pops up several times.

Only been invaded once as hollow, that was in Huntman's corpse in the area where poison spores randomly fall. I was in the middle of running past the enemies to reach the locked bonfire so I jumped to my death since he would of had enemy backup.

Speaking of 'close" bonfires, the first 3 times I entered Iron Keep from Earthern Peek I missed seeing the bonfire on the left down the stairs so I was quite annoyed that each time i died I had to run all the way from the 3rd bonfire near the Medusa boss, wait for the elevator to come back down, and ride it all the way back up each time I died. "WTF From, why u no bonfire?" I would have been pissed if I never found that hidden 3rd bonfire and had to run all the way back from the 2nd bonfire.

 

[britton_draws]

AHHH!

I can finally play this again tonight! After work last week was finals and then this weekend I took a mini roadtrip with a friend to visit family and so now tonight after work is 100% Dark Souls.

I should beat the game finally in the next couple of days at this point.

 

[guardian_owl]

Speaking of the second bonfire in Earthen Peak, the joys of trying to pantomime

Spoiler

"burn the damn windmill"

as a phantom become infinitely more hilarious when another phantoms is doing it as well (with torch lit as well) and the host is completely clueless. The first time I cooped against that boss I was summoned from the 3rd bonfire and they hadn't done it so the poison level was high enough that the only safe tile was a very small square in the middle of the room.

I also wish there was a gesture for "press X" I can't believe there are people that got as far as Earthen Peak and Iron Keep and they hadn't already found an illusionary wall, I spent 5 minutes trying to point to the hidden bonfire in Earthern Peak, but the host just kept chopping at the wall. Finally I gave up and MSGed him to press X.

 

[Trakan]

So I did some soul-searching (bah-dum-tsh) last night as to why I lost interest in this game halfway through and this is what I've come up with: they removed risk in this game.

With the new mechanic of enemy extinction, subconsciously I realized that death no longer mattered so long as I was killing at least one mob each death. Additionally, since enemies could be farmed to extinction they increased soul gain disproportionately to offset lost souls versus average soul gain for an area. This type of balance is thrown completely out of whack when a skilled player is given a chance to farm an area with ease. Thus, losing any souls to a death is completely void of meaning since mere minutes of soul farming in an easier area will yield high returns with minimal risk involved. Because they chose the quantity over quality of monster design this time around, everyone will find their 'go-to mob' for this type of farming to get ahead of the curve.

And before you say, "well just don't farm an area then" realize that from the getgo the game was designed in this manner, with repeated deaths to mechanics or a boss as the catalyst. If you don't die during the run back, you might suddenly find yourself sitting on a fortune of souls you'd rather level up off than potentially lose. This 'should' be where risk vs reward enters the equation, until you remember that those mobs in the starting area are now gone forever and your risk of losing said souls has lessened. They have fixed what wasn't broken and killed a key psychological component of what made these games tick.

Digging deeper, soul loss was never a huge factor in risk vs reward (at least for me) because as you ventured further or killed a hard boss you'd get a boon of souls finally to level up on. No, instead what has now been trivialized is progression. No longer does death mean having to reclear to a boss since one by one enemies start disappearing. Understanding that this mechanic will eventually clear the way for you sets in motion a new tactic: kill as far as you can before dying without caring when that is. It's no longer a key focus to learn mechanics or enemies, but rather to brute force your way to the finish line. This is when I was hit with the epiphany that once your remove risk in the game, you're left with one thing: tedium. The monotonous grinding of trash before a boss fight that MMO players have come to loathe. Complicate this with the fact that boss fights are rarely interesting this time around and you have a recipe for disaster.

I can count on one hand boss fights that have forced me to take a step back, strategize, and wipe for hours before claiming victory. Otherwise I'm facerolling every boss on the first try (and no, I don't read any strats on any boss before entering the fog for the first time) or simply seeing their moves after 2-3 wipes before downing it. It's for these reasons and the length of the game that I'm getting far less enjoyment than the previous two. I can only hope they throw out this trash design for what would surely be the premiere of a PS4 game. Otherwise, for me at least, god rest their souls.

While I disagree entirely with everything you said, try using a bonfire ascetic if you want the enemies back.

 

[britton_draws]

Speaking of the second bonfire in Earthen Peak, the joys of trying to pantomime

Spoiler

"burn the damn windmill"

as a phantom become infinitely more hilarious when another phantoms is doing it as well (with torch lit as well) and the host is completely clueless. The first time I cooped against that boss I was summoned from the 3rd bonfire and they hadn't done it so the poison level was high enough that the only safe tile was a very small square in the middle of the room.

I had read a few messages that made me think 'Oh I should burn that' but instantly forgot for some reason haha

Then during the boss battle I was like HOW DO YOU KILL HER THIS SUCKS. Then the guy I had summoned sent me a direct message

Spoiler

to burn the windmill haha

 

[Jodou]

I will say that this game seems to be 100x better with respect to lag and phantom backstabbings. In Dark Souls I was killed nearly every time by invaders via phantom backstabs - we'd go from facing off to all of a sudden I'm getting the backstab animation death and I never saw him roll or run past me in any way. That hasn't happened to me once with this game.

Twice while dueling last night as dragon covenant I had players so laggy that they literally died 10 seconds after I had attacked or done anything. They were just frozen in place until they warped around super fast and died. Players with shit connections are still laggy and make the PvP unfun, so I'm guessing that's what I was experiencing earlier on when I'd get invaded.

Speaking of that, someone mentioned you can't gain souls from invading which is wrong. PvP kills in the dragon covenant give 2k souls and can be enhanced with the silver covetous ring. I gained a level just from pvping last night after about 15 or so wins. Also, perhaps I've just forgotten how but a few times I've been riposted after a guard break (not the shield deflection parry) and I can't seem to do it myself. I've used guard break on players plenty but how do you do a grab/riposte on them afterward? One guy literally one-shot me doing this so it's cheap as hell, especially since it was the laggy kind of guard break where I was far from him and he still got it off. Then again, I was just ing around without full HP from being hollowed and I have no points in VGR but doing over 1k damage from one attack? /yawn

 

[Jodou]

While I disagree entirely with everything you said, try using a bonfire ascetic if you want the enemies back.

My entire point was that they should not be despawning. By allowing the player to systematically kill off all the trash before a boss removes all risk of failure. For example, in Anor Londo from Dark Souls if you died clearing to a certain bonfire in the castle it meant dealing with those asshole snipers on the perilous ledges of the rooftops. That kind of stuff put the fear of god in any player because it was a huge pain in the ass lol. Imagine if after enough times of failing the game said, 'that's ok little jimmy we'll remove those snipers now because you killed them enough times'. ing bullshit.

 

[britton_draws]

My entire point was that they should not be despawning. By allowing the player to systematically kill off all the trash before a boss removes all risk of failure. For example, in Anor Londo from Dark Souls if you died clearing to a certain bonfire in the castle it meant dealing with those asshole snipers on the perilous ledges of the rooftops. That kind of stuff put the fear of god in any player because it was a huge pain in the ass lol. Imagine if after enough times of failing the game said, 'that's ok little jimmy we'll remove those snipers now because you killed them enough times'. ing bullshit.

Right but he is saying if that bothers you personally, burn an Ascetic and you dont have to deal with them despawning...

I get the complaint but they have implemented a pretty solid system to counter it for people who so desire.

 

[Supplice]

Speaking of the second bonfire in Earthen Peak, the joys of trying to pantomime

Spoiler

"burn the damn windmill"

as a phantom become infinitely more hilarious when another phantoms is doing it as well (with torch lit as well) and the host is completely clueless. The first time I cooped against that boss I was summoned from the 3rd bonfire and they hadn't done it so the poison level was high enough that the only safe tile was a very small square in the middle of the room.

I had read a few messages that made me think 'Oh I should burn that' but instantly forgot for some reason haha

Then during the boss battle I was like HOW DO YOU KILL HER THIS SUCKS. Then the guy I had summoned sent me a direct message to

Spoiler

burn the windmill

haha

I remember the jolly coop time I had with hosts because they didn't do that. | I quickly learned that one should put their soul sign in the poison pool rather in the hallway leading to the boss. That way, you only get people who actually

Spoiler

burned the windmill.

One guy literally one-shot me doing this so it's cheap as hell, especially since it was the laggy kind of guard break where I was far from him and he still got it off. Then again, I was just ing around without full HP from being hollowed and I have no points in VGR but doing over 1k damage from one attack?

I have a build that does that. :lol:

Right but he is saying if that bothers you personally, burn an Ascetic and you dont have to deal with them despawning...

I get the complaint but they have implemented a pretty solid system to counter it for people who so desire.

This. There are plenty of bonfire ascetics to go around, not to mention the twenty you can buy from merchants. It helped out when I was farming twinkling titanite.

 

[guardian_owl]

It's also more social, if one wishes to boost you are encouraged to do it through multiplayer where the mobs are "infinite." instead of mindlessly farming (for example the 3 phantoms in the forest in Dark Souls) over and over. I know so far I am cooping a lot more than I did in Dark Souls 1. I am concerned that by the time I max out Sun Bros. covenant my Soul memory may get too high and hinder coop, I have a little over 10 medals and am already lvl 90.

Though In Anor Londo once you get past the 2 asshole snipers on the right side (I never really had much of a problem with them, though I almost exclusively use a shield) there is a bonfire almost immediately so if you were able to kill them, you shouldn't have to deal with them again anyway. Then once you worm your way through the interior there is a switch to open the main gate so you can dash to the boss from the bonfire back at the start.

 

[Jodou]

This. There are plenty of bonfire ascetics to go around, not to mention the twenty you can buy from merchants. It helped out when I was farming twinkling titanite.

Once again, you guys are missing the point. I don't want choice when presented with difficulty. To me, it feels like they're dumbing down the game for less skilled players and my elitist nature can't stand it.

Though In Anor Londo once you get past the 2 asshole snipers on the right side (I never really had much of a problem with them, though I almost exclusively use a shield) there is a bonfire almost immediately so if you were able to kill them, you shouldn't have to deal with them again anyway. Then once you worm your way through the interior there is a switch to open the main gate so you can dash to the boss from the bonfire back at the start.

True enough, but the sheer dread of just having to pass through that part on multiple playthroughs was enough hehe. The fact we both know about it, remember it distinctly is a testament to that. I can't say the same for a single portion of Dark Souls II yet.

 

[guardian_owl]

Bandit valley, that final narrow stretch on the way to the Chariot boss, I am not looking forward to that in NG+. That er with the whip can even catch up to you and hit you the whole time you are passing through the boss fog gate if you attempt to run the gauntlet.

Side note, is there any hat that looks like something a chef would wear? I am tempted to try some joke invasions fighting with the ladle.

 

[io]

I've gotten lots of mobs to stop respawning once I got the gold serpent ring+2. Also, just rushed the mandatory bosses with a friend to get our last spells and the platinum.

Should I be trading any souls I have in for spells now? Which trophies can you get without dealing with the covenant rewards (minus Sun which I have maxed already)? Just hexes and pyro? (It seems there are miracles and maybe spells as covenant rewards). So should I concentrate on getting all of those? I'm hesitant to trade any souls for those in case you can also find them in chests (as has happened with several I have bought).

This. There are plenty of bonfire ascetics to go around, not to mention the twenty you can buy from merchants. It helped out when I was farming twinkling titanite.

Where did you farm twinkling titanite?

It's also more social, if one wishes to boost you are encouraged to do it through multiplayer where the mobs are "infinite." instead of mindlessly farming (for example the 3 phantoms in the forest in Dark Souls) over and over. I know so far I am cooping a lot more than I did in Dark Souls 1. I am concerned that by the time I max out Sun Bros. covenant my Soul memory may get too high and hinder coop, I have a little over 10 medals and am already lvl 90.

I am at level 130 now. I found plenty of people to help in the 100-120 range - even at places like the Shaded Ruins (scorpion fight) which I did much earlier myself. But you are right about the coop providing almost too many souls. I just kept leveling up more and more without even trying. I'd definitely say that the souls are coming much easier than in the first game. I ended up using the crow duplication trick in the first game to level up quickly but it wouldn't even be necessary for this one. Granted, I have put in nearly 70 hours now but that has to be the fastest 70 hours I've ever played - it sure doesn't seem like that long.

And WTF about Lucatiel in the Black Gulch fight. I just did that yesterday and never saw her sign. Where is it? I found the other NPC there and used him instead (and he survived but I guess that doesn't get you anything). If I had done that I would have had 2 out of the 3 done and could have just done one ascetic to finish it off. I suppose I need to avoid talking to her at the last place she shows up so she doesn't go away, right? I'd use the ascetic at the Wharf but that is one place where I wish there was another bonfire. I don't want to run all the way through there again with tougher enemies. There is only one bonfire there, right? I guess I can try Black Gulch again but I'd need to know where her sign is first.

 

[guardian_owl]

And WTF about Lucatiel in the Black Gulch fight. I just did that yesterday and never saw her sign. Where is it? I found the other NPC there and used him instead (and he survived but I guess that doesn't get you anything). If I had done that I would have had 2 out of the 3 done and could have just done one ascetic to finish it off. I suppose I need to avoid talking to her at the last place she shows up so she doesn't go away, right? I'd use the ascetic at the Wharf but that is one place where I wish there was another bonfire. I don't want to run all the way through there again with tougher enemies. There is only one bonfire there, right? I guess I can try Black Gulch again but I'd need to know where her sign is first.

Did you talk to her at Black Gulch? Wiki says [customspoiler='location']The most hidden of her locations. From the first bonfire in Black Gulch stick close to the edge. Even before the first black pools you can spot a small ledge below. Using a torch is strongly advised to see it. Drop down and follow the path to find her leaning against a wall.[/customspoiler] and then her summon sign is at the second bonfire which you get to by [customspoiler='bonfire location']stick to the right of the path until you reach the stone cave wall. Continue along the right hand-side to reach the bonfire.[/customspoiler]

 

[Backlash]

Bandit valley, that final narrow stretch on the way to the Chariot boss, I am not looking forward to that in NG+. That er with the whip can even catch up to you and hit you the whole time you are passing through the boss fog gate if you attempt to run the gauntlet.

If you just walk really slowly through that canyon you only fight those guys one at a time (don't even have to draw them with a bow or anything) so it's not too bad. I had to do it 3 or 4 times just recently. |

 

[britton_draws]

Bandit valley, that final narrow stretch on the way to the Chariot boss, I am not looking forward to that in NG+. That er with the whip can even catch up to you and hit you the whole time you are passing through the boss fog gate if you attempt to run the gauntlet.

Side note, is there any hat that looks like something a chef would wear? I am tempted to try some joke invasions fighting with the ladle.

In the beta this area sucked I remember but when I played it now in the retail version I knew where they were and how much of a pain they were so I just killed them with a bow from range and didnt have to deal with any face to face. #lazywayout

Where did you farm twinkling titanite?


I am at level 130 now. I found plenty of people to help in the 100-120 range - even at places like the Shaded Ruins (scorpion fight) which I did much earlier myself. But you are right about the coop providing almost too many souls. I just kept leveling up more and more without even trying. I'd definitely say that the souls are coming much easier than in the first game. I ended up using the crow duplication trick in the first game to level up quickly but it wouldn't even be necessary for this one. Granted, I have put in nearly 70 hours now but that has to be the fastest 70 hours I've ever played - it sure doesn't seem like that long.

And WTF about Lucatiel in the Black Gulch fight. I just did that yesterday and never saw her sign. Where is it? I found the other NPC there and used him instead (and he survived but I guess that doesn't get you anything). If I had done that I would have had 2 out of the 3 done and could have just done one ascetic to finish it off. I suppose I need to avoid talking to her at the last place she shows up so she doesn't go away, right? I'd use the ascetic at the Wharf but that is one place where I wish there was another bonfire. I don't want to run all the way through there again with tougher enemies. There is only one bonfire there, right? I guess I can try Black Gulch again but I'd need to know where her sign is first.

I am assuming at the Shrine of Amana or whatever where the Knights drop it rather frequently

And in the Black Gulch, there is another bonfire

Spoiler

to the right. Basically if you follow the outer edge the whole path you will wind back to a hidden path. I didn't find it the first time I fought the Rotten either and only found it when I went back to each area confused and lost trying to figure out what to do next haha

 

[io]

Did you talk to her at Black Gulch? Wiki says [customspoiler=location]The most hidden of her locations. From the first bonfire in Black Gulch stick close to the edge. Even before the first black pools you can spot a small ledge below. Using a torch is strongly advised to see it. Drop down and follow the path to find her leaning against a wall.[/customspoiler] and then her summon sign is at the second bonfire which you get to by [customspoiler="bonfire location"]stick to the right of the path until you reach the stone cave wall. Continue along the right hand-side to reach the bonfire.[/customspoiler]

Yeah, I did all that. Talked to her down on the ledges below and found the second bonfire. I never saw her sign there. Is it right by the bonfire?

Does the Wharf area only have one bonfire though? That is the one that is actually a pain to navigate from the beginning to the boss. Unlike so many of the other areas, it could really use a second bonfire near the end. Or at the very least they should let you open up a shortcut once you get through so you don't have to go up the stairs and through all that stuff again. Or was there one? It's been so many hours since I've been there . I guess I'll go scout it out again next time I play.

If you burn an ascetic, and then go to NG+, does it make that area NG++ tough? Or does it reset when you start NG+?

 

[britton_draws]

Yeah, I did all that. Talked to her down on the ledges below and found the second bonfire. I never saw her sign there. Is it right by the bonfire?

Does the Wharf area only have one bonfire though? That is the one that is actually a pain to navigate from the beginning to the boss. Unlike so many of the other areas, it could really use a second bonfire near the end. Or at the very least they should let you open up a shortcut once you get through so you don't have to go up the stairs and through all that stuff again.

I have not found one. I thought so too and assumed I had missed something. I have played through that area a bunch of times after beating the boss and

Spoiler

sailing away

but am yet to find another so I would imagine no. If there is I will poop myself because I have scoured that area like no other.

 

[Supplice]

Should I be trading any souls I have in for spells now? Which trophies can you get without dealing with the covenant rewards (minus Sun which I have maxed already)? Just hexes and pyro? (It seems there are miracles and maybe spells as covenant rewards). So should I concentrate on getting all of those? I'm hesitant to trade any souls for those in case you can also find them in chests (as has happened with several I have bought).

Where did you farm twinkling titanite?

The only trophy you can get not dealing with MP covenant rewards is hexes. Spells has one magic that needs 30 wins in the Bell covenant against invaders or red phantoms.

As for farming twinkling titanite, I farmed the [customspoiler='boss and location'] Giant Lord in memory. [/customspoiler]

 

[Kameleon]

I have found that when you're using the travel option, you can see how many areas there are and how many bonfires are in each area. If I remember correctly, there is only one bonfire in the Wharf.

Unfortunately for me, there's about three bonfires I missed while going through the game.

 

[io]

The only trophy you can get not dealing with covenant rewards is hexes. Spells has one magic that needs 30 wins in the Bell covenant against invaders or red phantoms.

As for farming twinkling titanite, I farmed the [customspoiler="boss and location"] Giant Lord in memory. [/customspoiler]

I don't even know what/where you are talking about there .

So for the hexes, I should just go ahead and cash in any boss souls needed for those now? I might as well get that one at least. If the covenants are required for the trophies (you can't even buy those spells in NG+ like I've heard?) then I guess I'll be skipping the plat for this game. I have no interest whatsoever in PvP BS.

 

[Supplice]

I don't even know what/where you are talking about there .

So for the hexes, I should just go ahead and cash in any boss souls needed for those now? I might as well get that one at least. If the covenants are required for the trophies (you can't even buy those spells in NG+ like I've heard?) then I guess I'll be skipping the plat for this game. I have no interest whatsoever in PvP BS.

You should when you get them.

 

[renique46]

I wish they had a stone or something that all it would do is provide basically a list of how many people are around your sl range or show just in general a range of sls and how many people are at those lvls.  so you know what level to be at if you want to do plentiful coop or pvp.

 

[britton_draws]

So I came home today and did nothing but play Dark Souls haha and I have a question. I am at the very home stretch I believe at this point and just received an item

Spoiler

aged feather or whatever. It sounds like an infinite use Homeward Bone... is it really infinite or just has multiple uses?

Thanks!

 

[Bezerker]

Welp, I just found out that sins carry over to New Game +.  As a "celebration" of worlds being over once I beat the game, or am about to face the final boss,  in Drk & Dmn Souls I would go around and kill every single NPC in the game.  The end of Dark Souls 2 was no different. 

While all the NPC's of course respawned for NG+, as soon as I stepped into the FoFG I got a message about being invaded by an arbiter.  I really didnt feel like dealing with people so I just unplugged the network cable.  Based on the math of it costing 134k souls to be forgiven for killing one NPC, i'd have to wager im looking at around 2 million in souls needed to clear my sin.

 

[io]

Based on the math of it costing 134k souls to be forgiven for killing one NPC, i'd have to wager im looking at around 2 million in souls needed to clear my sin.

Ouch, I was wondering what that guy was for - I've never owed anything when I visit him in any of the games.

The guy doing the blog on IGN said he asked him for 126K or something - but he didn't recount what he did to deserve that. That seems like a big omission from the blog. Also I think it is pretty humorous that he seems to be playing the game ass-backwards. He did the Doors of Pharros and Royal Rat Authority before doing the intro rat covenant.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2014/03/24/dark-souls-ii-diary-an-uneasy-beginning

He's saying how easy stuff is now - yeah, 'cause he did all the hard parts first :lol:.

 

[Jodou]

I don't even know what/where you are talking about there .

That place is like pretty much the end of the game and the mobs are a huge pain to kill since there's trash in the way and you're on a timer. It's much easier to just farm some knights in an earlier area, I think Aldia? Can't really remember because I didn't bother yet since I'm not sure what suit of armor I wanted to pimp out. Probably Vengarl's but I still need to compare the king set when I get it.

You're dangerously close to catching me ha. I'm 70 hours in and 160-ish. I'm almost sick of leveling up because I don't know where to put points anymore and I love the dragon covenant pvp, so I don't want to get too high. And yeah, part of my beef with the difficulty of this game is souls are too abundant. I'm leveling without even trying off trash that I farm for item drops. It really is a joke how easy they made this game and I'm hoping they scale it back again for the next game.

 

[Supplice]

So I came home today and did nothing but play Dark Souls haha and I have a question. I am at the very home stretch I believe at this point and just received an item

Spoiler

aged feather or whatever. It sounds like an infinite use Homeward Bone... is it really infinite or just has multiple uses?

Thanks!

Its infinite.

 

[io]

So I finally found where to go once you get all 4 big souls. It was an area I remember not being able to progress past a long, long time ago (and I think I even posted about it). But I had completely forgotten. I did have to look it up online. Without that help, I might have just given up finding it.

FYI:

Spoiler

It is one of the paths from the fork bonfire in Shaded Woods. It leads to the Winter Shrine, which in turn leads to Drangleic Castle.

So, yeah, the castle part (the later one - not the one in Forest of Giants). That is a pain. I helped out as a summon first to get a feel for what I was up against. Otherwise I was sitting there at the entrance killing those mobs that seem to come at you endlessly until I ran out of spells and my sword was about to break. I didn't realize until later that you need to kill them closer to the door...

In any case, the guy I helped with had already got the door open so I still didn't know about that when I went back (I had figured it out from what happened later inside). But he also had the first bonfire lit so then I knew where that was when I went in myself. Then after that one I summoned a few people to help me get to the first boss (which was cake with 3 people). It was the getting there that was the hard part anyway. Afterwards I went up some ladder and found one of those statues you have to light and got mobbed by 6 spear sentry things (the smaller ones - just got outnumbered) and killed.

This place definitely reminds me of the castle area in Dark Souls - small, cramped, claustrophobic areas with lots of things trying to kill you . I take it there is a merchant in the beginning by the stairs? I'll have to get to him from the front as I sure as hell don't want to go back through that room with all the Flexile Sentry clones. When I was in there with a summon, we didn't get one of the guys lit - is that important? Is the lighting fires trophy just for the bonfires, or for all the places you can light? The problem now is that if I run in there I get 6 of those Flexile sentries and, what, 12 of the regular ones (?) trying to kill me all at once - especially since the guy who needs to be lit is at the far end.

 

[Trakan]

That place is like pretty much the end of the game and the mobs are a huge pain to kill since there's trash in the way and you're on a timer. It's much easier to just farm some knights in an earlier area, I think Aldia? Can't really remember because I didn't bother yet since I'm not sure what suit of armor I wanted to pimp out. Probably Vengarl's but I still need to compare the king set when I get it.

You're dangerously close to catching me ha. I'm 70 hours in and 160-ish. I'm almost sick of leveling up because I don't know where to put points anymore and I love the dragon covenant pvp, so I don't want to get too high. And yeah, part of my beef with the difficulty of this game is souls are too abundant. I'm leveling without even trying off trash that I farm for item drops. It really is a joke how easy they made this game and I'm hoping they scale it back again for the next game.

Was DS1 your first game in the series? If so, of course you're going to find the sequel easier when you know what to expect and have some experience with the games. I don't think this game is any easier or harder than the first. There are a few jokey/gimmicky bosses, but other than that I think it's on par with 1.

 

[io]

I'm pretty sure Jodou is a Demon's Souls vet, let alone Dark Souls .

I pushed into Shrine of Amana tonight. Man, I hate the narrow paths of walkable water - where you can't tell where it gets deep. It seems to get really bad after the second bonfire.

Also, I noticed something tonight for the first time. I'm seeing extra bonfire locations on the warp screen for certain areas that say "???". I have 2 in Drangleic castle in between the two bonfires I can travel to. There are 2 more in Amana that I probably just haven't gotten to. But there are some in areas way back - like one in Forest of Fallen Giants, and one in the Iron Keep. What gives with those? Did the game glitch on me and show me these "hidden" (or as of yet undiscovered) bonfires or does it just do that at some point (I think it was after the boss in Drangleic when it started)? I definitely wasn't seeing those before.

I had stupid Benhart plus a human summons with me at the Looking Glass Knight. We didn't have much trouble with him but Benhart died like 10 seconds before we finished off the boss. Damn... So close. I still have 2 more chances with him in the game before I resort to ascetics (he did survive the first fight). I assume he'll still show up for the next one, right? I just don't get that one to count.

 

[britton_draws]

I'm pretty sure Jodou is a Demon's Souls vet, let alone Dark Souls .

I pushed into Shrine of Amana tonight. Man, I hate the narrow paths of walkable water - where you can't tell where it gets deep. It seems to get really bad after the second bonfire.

Also, I noticed something tonight for the first time. I'm seeing extra bonfire locations on the warp screen for certain areas that say "???". I have 2 in Drangleic castle in between the two bonfires I can travel to. There are 2 more in Amana that I probably just haven't gotten to. But there are some in areas way back - like one in Forest of Fallen Giants, and one in the Iron Keep. What gives with those? Did the game glitch on me and show me these "hidden" (or as of yet undiscovered) bonfires or does it just do that at some point (I think it was after the boss in Drangleic when it started)? I definitely wasn't seeing those before.

I had stupid Benhart plus a human summons with me at the Looking Glass Knight. We didn't have much trouble with him but Benhart died like 10 seconds before we finished off the boss. Damn... So close. I still have 2 more chances with him in the game before I resort to ascetics (he did survive the first fight). I assume he'll still show up for the next one, right? I just don't get that one to count.

The same thing happened to me around that time too in regards to the bonfires. I figured maybe once you got so far in it showed you, that or it was simply a glitch. The fact that they have it coded to have '???' and the black faded screen I would imagine it is intentional but I still thought it was odd.

Benhart died fighting the Looking Glass Knight with me too : /

The NPC summons I feel die way quicker in this game, largely because they tend to aggro a ton

 

[guardian_owl]

In Dark Souls, the reward at part way is fast travel. The reward in Dark Souls 2 is to show all the bonfires you've missed. You probably missed the 3rd bonfire in Forest of the Giant's that you find with the soldier's key, a lot of people miss it because after you open the shortcut in the wall, you never walk past it again. [customspoiler='location]Start at the second bonfire, climb down the ladder, head left, then left again to enter the room with the enemy that is playing dead (where there used to be a fog gate) and on the right is a door that opens with the key from the forest boss[/customspoiler]. If it's not that one then maybe it has something to do with the trees that you can examine.

That's why having a faith build is going to be handy for trying to do these NPC quests, I can quickly pop down next to them, give them a shot of Med heal or Great heal, and they are back in the game.

 

[britton_draws]

In Dark Souls, the reward at part way is fast travel. The reward in Dark Souls 2 is to show all the bonfires you've missed. You probably missed the 3rd bonfire in Forest of the Giant's that you find with the soldier's key, a lot of people miss it because after you open the shortcut in the wall, you never walk past it again. [customspoiler='location]Start at the second bonfire, climb down the ladder, head left, then left again to enter the room with the enemy that is playing dead (where there used to be a fog gate) and on the right is a door that opens with the key from the forest boss[/customspoiler]. If it's not that one then maybe it has something to do with the trees that you can examine.

That's why having a faith build is going to be handy for trying to do these NPC quests, I can quickly pop down next to them, give them a shot of Med heal or Great heal, and they are back in the game.

Yeah I missed that one originally. I went back however before the ??? even appeared and found that. The one that I completely missed but I realized I must have missed one because of the ??? was right before Mytha

Also I apparently missed the one before the [spoiler[Guardian Dragon. I went through that whole area and then came to a boss and was like WTF clearly there should be a bonfire between and I couldn't find one but luckily got the boss on the first try. It seems to have a weakness to magic because I used my Dragonrider bow with Magic Arrows and it took off pretty hefty chunks with each hit. But yeah I still haven't found where that bonfire was that I missed haha [/spoiler]

 

[Supplice]

And yeah, part of my beef with the difficulty of this game is souls are too abundant. I'm leveling without even trying off trash that I farm for item drops. It really is a joke how easy they made this game and I'm hoping they scale it back again for the next game.

Of course, over-leveling makes the game easy too.

Benhart died fighting the Looking Glass Knight with me too : /

The NPC summons I feel die way quicker in this game, largely because they tend to aggro a ton

That's why having a faith build is going to be handy for trying to do these NPC quests, I can quickly pop down next to them, give them a shot of Med heal or Great heal, and they are back in the game.

Faith heal with a fast casting speed and wearing the Redeye ring is the way to go to keep them alive. I only used the ring and it forced me to be aggressive on the later bosses which was fun in itself. Still, it would have been nice to have that healing safety net since the NPCs drop like stones.

 

[guardian_owl]

It can still be an option for non-faith focused, depending on your starting class you might not even have to put in any points in faith though you do need 10 attunement for a spell slot. With the +5 faith ring (bought from the miracle merchant that let's you enter Huntman's corpse) one can cast normal heal (500 HP) for 7 base faith which one already has with the bandit. 13 base faith (w/ring) for med heal (850 HP).

Though the miracle that will probably interest most non-faith focused people is Great Heal Excerpt (bought from the same merchant as the ring), for 14 faith (9 base faith if you wear the ring) you get one cast of Great Heal (instead of the normal 3) which heals 1300 HP and is usually enough to completely top off the NPC summon if they get the full blast (at least it was for Lucatiel in the Iron Keep). The starting chime of the cleric can either be found by carefully dropping onto a ledge in Majula or just buying it from that same vendor as the ring, it has one of the fastest cast times only beaten by chimes which apparently are found near the end game.

 

[britton_draws]

It can still be an option for non-faith focused, depending on your starting class you might not even have to put in any points in faith though you do need 10 attunement for a spell slot. With the +5 faith ring (bought from the miracle merchant that let's you enter Huntman's corpse) one can cast normal heal (500 HP) for 7 base faith which one already has with the bandit. 13 base faith (w/ring) for med heal (850 HP).

Though the miracle that will probably interest most non-faith focused people is Great Heal Excerpt (bought from the same merchant as the ring), for 14 faith (9 base faith if you wear the ring) you get one cast of Great Heal (instead of the normal 3) which heals 1300 HP and is usually enough to completely top off the NPC summon if they get the full blast (at least it was for Lucatiel in the Iron Keep). The starting chime of the cleric can either be found by carefully dropping onto a ledge in Majula or just buying it from that same vendor as the ring, it has one of the fastest cast times only beaten by chimes which apparently are found near the end game.

I have not used any of the Spices. How do those things work with spells? My understanding was that it simply lowered the requirements. Is that a permanent thing? I feel like I compared it somewhat to a PP UP in Pokemon or something haha.

 

[guardian_owl]

As I understand it, each one you use via a certain vendor [customspoiler='location']Iron Keep, to the right of the entrance[/customspoiler] subtracts the requirements by one permanently for that spell or miracle. I am holding onto at least one of each if a reliable duping method ever pops up and I decide do it to use them on some of those with rather absurd requirements.

So anyone here play around with Hexes any? Since I picked cleric for starter class my Intelligence is near base and I was wondering if it was worth raising a little to have the option to cast a few Hexes too.

 

[Jodou]

Of course, over-leveling makes the game easy too.

Bullshit. Keep in mind I NEVER boost my HP via VGR, only the bonus from leveling other skills (my current HP is barely over 1200 with ring of binding IIRC). Besides, you guys consistently miss what I'm saying. Soul acquisition used to be much, much harder than this from what I remember. It's what made farming the forest spirits early in DS1 so appealing because they gave a decent amount of souls with minimal risk involved. Now it feels like they're shoving souls down your throat on the easiest of trash to the point that bosses seem to give a joke amount of souls by comparison. I've had to stop killing anything just so I don't feel obligated to level or use souls on stuff like arrows.

Well designed bosses like smelter (tough on melee at least), freya, and ancient dragon will all murder you if you ignore mechanics/adds and 'overleveling' won't save you.

Was DS1 your first game in the series? If so, of course you're going to find the sequel easier when you know what to expect and have some experience with the games. I don't think this game is any easier or harder than the first. There are a few jokey/gimmicky bosses, but other than that I think it's on par with 1.

I'd say the overall quality of DS1 bosses were better, despite a few joke bosses like pinwheel or the taurus demon that you could almost one shot by dropping down from above. After doing a quick tally of legitimate one-shot boss attempts in this game, I came up with 11. That number jumps to 17 if I count all the bosses I killed after a first attempt or got within 3-5. Not saying this game has zero challenges though, since at least three bosses had me wiping for an hour plus while I learned timing/strategies or mechanics. I did try one boss on NG+ (Freya) and it was rough, which does give hope that starting a new game would up the difficulty immensely.

 

[Backlash]

Why would you feel obligated to level?  Spend the souls on items or materials (or spells, etc).  Or just ignore them, if you want to.

I think your problem with this game boils down to one thing:  even though you could still enjoy the game the way you want to, everyone else doesn't have to (i.e. they can level up more, use bonfires more, etc) so you don't get to impress other people with your mastery of the game.

Earn the invisible weapon rings if you want - that should still impress people.

 

[Jodou]

Why would you feel obligated to level? Spend the souls on items or materials (or spells, etc). Or just ignore them, if you want to.

I think your problem with this game boils down to one thing: even though you could still enjoy the game the way you want to, everyone else doesn't have to (i.e. they can level up more, use bonfires more, etc) so you don't get to impress other people with your mastery of the game.

Earn the invisible weapon rings if you want - that should still impress people.

It's the opposite actually, I feel as though they're dumbing down the game to accommodate a wider audience. It's the classic slow boil a frog to death scenario. Bottom line is I don't like some of the changes they've made and the resulting balance of risk vs reward.

 

[Supplice]

So anyone here play around with Hexes any? Since I picked cleric for starter class my Intelligence is near base and I was wondering if it was worth raising a little to have the option to cast a few Hexes too.

Hexes are definitely worth it. However, they require a lot of investment in both faith and Int to get more options in casting. Also, the power of the hexes are based off your lowest stat of the two. So if you have 10 int and 15 faith, you'll only doing 10int worth of damage versus a 15/15 spread.

 

[Jodou]

Hexes are definitely worth it. However, they require a lot of investment in both faith and Int to get more options in casting. Also, the power of the hexes are based off your lowest stat of the two. So if you have 10 int and 15 faith, you'll only doing 10int worth of damage versus a 15/15 spread.

I dig dark hail with my MLS build in PvP; allows me to setup for a dive roll into the laser beam strong attack. :lol:

 

[Backlash]

It's the opposite actually, I feel as though they're dumbing down the game to accommodate a wider audience. It's the classic slow boil a frog to death scenario. Bottom line is I don't like some of the changes they've made and the resulting balance of risk vs reward.

They're definitely making it more accessible to a wider audience, which is to be somewhat expected (it is a business, after all). I don't think they're dumbing it down too much at this point, though. I agree that it does feel less risky than Dark Souls a bit and definitely less than Demon's Souls, but I still mostly worried as I get farther into a level and certainly a new area still makes me walk very slowly with my shield held high

It's kind of similar to the changes they made in Dark Souls from 1.03 to 1.05 (I think?), where they made humanity more plentiful, all merchants sold arrows, bottomless box from the beginning, giant blacksmith sells twinkling titanite, etc. Those changes definitely made the game easier, but mostly they made it less tedious. At first I thought "Man, I beat it before they changed it to easy mode! PC gamers don't know what it was really like before!" But later I realized that was kind of a silly attitude.

 

[Jodou]

They're definitely making it more accessible to a wider audience, which is to be somewhat expected (it is a business, after all). I don't think they're dumbing it down too much at this point, though. I agree that it does feel less risky than Dark Souls a bit and definitely less than Demon's Souls, but I still mostly worried as I get farther into a level and certainly a new area still makes me walk very slowly with my shield held high

It's kind of similar to the changes they made in Dark Souls from 1.03 to 1.05 (I think?), where they made humanity more plentiful, all merchants sold arrows, bottomless box from the beginning, giant blacksmith sells twinkling titanite, etc. Those changes definitely made the game easier, but mostly they made it less tedious. At first I thought "Man, I beat it before they changed it to easy mode! PC gamers don't know what it was really like before!" But later I realized that was kind of a silly attitude.

Oh yeah, I don't mind quality of life changes so that less farming is involved for items, especially when it comes to preparing for a night of PvP. Just when they change core design that affects my preference in difficulty.

 

[bjstucker]

Demons souls has been the least risky IMO than any of these and most accessible. Other than random falls it seems like almost every boss was pretty straight forward. I mean look at the Dragon at the end of the second dungeon in Demons there was pretty much no way you could die. Dark Souls 1 +2 make you play in Co-op to get some objectives done and for me about half of the boss battles without having to  grind enemies to some over powered state. They improved on Dark Souls 1 to 2 but not enough to really want to put in >300hrs into it like I did Demons.

 

[britton_draws]

It's the opposite actually, I feel as though they're dumbing down the game to accommodate a wider audience. It's the classic slow boil a frog to death scenario. Bottom line is I don't like some of the changes they've made and the resulting balance of risk vs reward

They're definitely making it more accessible to a wider audience, which is to be somewhat expected (it is a business, after all). I don't think they're dumbing it down too much at this point, though. I agree that it does feel less risky than Dark Souls a bit and definitely less than Demon's Souls, but I still mostly worried as I get farther into a level and certainly a new area still makes me walk very slowly with my shield held high

It's kind of similar to the changes they made in Dark Souls from 1.03 to 1.05 (I think?), where they made humanity more plentiful, all merchants sold arrows, bottomless box from the beginning, giant blacksmith sells twinkling titanite, etc. Those changes definitely made the game easier, but mostly they made it less tedious. At first I thought "Man, I beat it before they changed it to easy mode! PC gamers don't know what it was really like before!" But later I realized that was kind of a silly attitude.

Oh yeah, I don't mind quality of life changes so that less farming is involved for items, especially when it comes to preparing for a night of PvP. Just when they change core design that affects my preference in difficulty.

I agree on both fronts. It does feel much more similar to the Dark Souls patch but at the same time I do see where Jodou is coming from. We have more to fall back on in the end and it does make it feel less risky. Super simple example is the lifgems. Being able to buy an infinite amount makes each conflict its own. When you had to ration Estus Flasks you would be walking blind into new areas with low health hoping to save up the last two chugs you have. Now though after each encounter I crack a few gems and approach each new experience with full health. There are countless changes like that in this game and Backlash makes a great point of it simply being a business in the end. I commend them on trying to broaden the audience by making it a bit more accessible but then still giving us the means to make it just as hard with other things.

It is hard to compare though too since we already have played to death the Souls series I imagine. Going through the DLC was much easier I felt because we had already gotten so accustomed to Dark Souls. The same can be applied here to an extent though we cannpt ignore that there have been some major changes that do indeed make it a bit easier.

Our crucial difference however Judou is that you think it makes it less of a game and I think it is great that they are trying new things and still trying to hold onto the old experience through the Ascetics and such.

 

[Backlash]

Well said.  We can always say things like "just don't use the lifegems if they make it too easy" but of course if it's in the game that's hard to do.  But - that's where challenge runs come in.  After I played Dark Souls quite a bit and felt like I needed something new to do, I did a Soul Level 1 run (which later because incredibly common anyway).

In Dark Souls 2, you can make up your own challenge (I've heard of several people doing bows only or crazy crap like that), but they also built 2 major challenge runs right into the game, and give you tangible rewards for them.  Beat it without dying and you get one ring.  Beat it without using a bonfire and you get a different ring, both of which are only useful for PvP.

 

[io]

In Dark Souls, the reward at part way is fast travel. The reward in Dark Souls 2 is to show all the bonfires you've missed. You probably missed the 3rd bonfire in Forest of the Giant's that you find with the soldier's key, a lot of people miss it because after you open the shortcut in the wall, you never walk past it again. [customspoiler='location]Start at the second bonfire, climb down the ladder, head left, then left again to enter the room with the enemy that is playing dead (where there used to be a fog gate) and on the right is a door that opens with the key from the forest boss[/customspoiler]. If it's not that one then maybe it has something to do with the trees that you can examine.

Nope - there is a 4th one according to the "???" marker. Is it maybe past the king's door that I can't open yet? I had missed that 3rd one a while back but when you guys were talking about it I went back and cleaned out that area.

That's why having a faith build is going to be handy for trying to do these NPC quests, I can quickly pop down next to them, give them a shot of Med heal or Great heal, and they are back in the game.

I tried doing this with Lucatiel on the Sinner boss and I healed so very little and the time it took to do the heal just resulted in me getting slaughtered. My Faith is much higher now though - I wish I had thought of that for Benhart because one Heal probably would have been enough. The guy I summoned had Heal because he did it before we went into the fight. I wish he had thought to heal Benhart when he was low. The boss was just pounding on him - he actually lasted quite a while all things considered. I just couldn't do very much damage to the boss myself. My sword did almost nothing. If I hit him in the back with lightning spears it did a decent amount but from the front they'd deflect off his shield.

How hard is it to keep Benhart alive in the two later fights? I only need 2 more. The Looking Glass Night is easy to get back to, I think, right? I could try an ascetic there but then of course it will only be harder.

I need 2 for Lucatiel also. I guess I'll try an ascetic on the Rotten and see how it goes. I just hate those poison statues though.

In Dark Souls 2, you can make up your own challenge (I've heard of several people doing bows only or crazy crap like that), but they also built 2 major challenge runs right into the game, and give you tangible rewards for them. Beat it without dying and you get one ring. Beat it without using a bonfire and you get a different ring, both of which are only useful for PvP.

Wow - those are insane challenges. I'd rather gouge out my eyes with icepicks than try to do those. Imagine trying to do both at the same time .

 

[Supplice]

How hard is it to keep Benhart alive in the two later fights? I only need 2 more. The Looking Glass Night is easy to get back to, I think, right? I could try an ascetic there but then of course it will only be harder.

I wouldn't try Looking Glass Knight online seeing as he can summon real players to aid him.