The Middle East ... Who's making thing worst Israel or Palestine

[Finger_Shocker]

Anyways thought it was not surprising that when Rhianna posted a message that was not Israel friendly, it was immediately shot down by "certain people who hold control over media and politics of mind"

The fact is that currently Israel has killed a whole bunch of innocent people including children, when technically there is no need for such a heavy handed response.  We all know that Palestine cannot ever threaten or pose a danger to Israel at the level Israel has military wise. 

 

[MasaTFC]

All I have to say is read the book "Palestine Inside Out" by Saree Madski

Israel engaging in actions that of the "heavy handed" persuasion is nothing new when it comes to treatment of the Palestinian people. One throws rocks, the other shoots assault rifles. Hamas has RPGs, IDF has airstrikes.

And for the record, because it is usually an argument made by Pro-Israel folks, you can be for the rights of the Palestinian people and not be an anti-semite. Its about basic human rights, not choosing sides.

 

[rebelschs]

Rhianna is a ing idiot, that is one reason it was taken down. When you are part of the Illuminati, you have to play by their rules as well.

I fully support Israel in anything they do. I pray that one day they are victorious over the forces of evil.

 

[RedvsBlue]

Rhianna is a ing idiot, that is one reason it was taken down. When you are part of the Illuminati, you have to play by their rules as well.

I fully support Israel in anything they do. I pray that one day they are victorious over the forces of evil.

I really can't pin down if you're a parody account or not. Sometimes your posts make it seem like you're not, other times (like this) it definitely makes it seem like you are.

The forces of evil? Really? Because a group wants land back that was unilaterally stripped from them, that makes them evil?

 

[Syntax Error]

We all know that Palestine cannot ever threaten or pose a danger to Israel at the level Israel has military wise.

I don't really understand that. "Well, you guys don't have tanks so I guess we can't use ours"? Is Israel just supposed to fire rockets back at Hamas in a tit-for-tat endeavor? The reason more Palestinian citizens are being killed is because Hamas is intentionally placing their rocket locations in civilian areas and because Israel has a better defense system for Hamas rockets than Hamas has to Israeli missiles. If you want to stop the Israeli missiles, here's a novel approach: Stop firing the Hamas rockets.

 

[Finger_Shocker]

I don't really understand that. "Well, you guys don't have tanks so I guess we can't use ours"? Is Israel just supposed to fire rockets back at Hamas in a tit-for-tat endeavor? The reason more Palestinian citizens are being killed is because Hamas is intentionally placing their rocket locations in civilian areas and because Israel has a better defense system for Hamas rockets than Hamas has to Israeli missiles. If you want to stop the Israeli missiles, here's a novel approach: Stop firing the Hamas rockets.

I'm pretty sure those 4 children on the beach was right next to Hamas rockets :/

Just to make it clear, Israel has never said they were targeting Hamas weapon stash, they were targeting HAMAS personnel, ( meaning Israel was looking to kill people )

 

[Syntax Error]

I'm pretty sure those 4 children on the beach was right next to Hamas rockets :/

Just to make it clear, Israel has never said they were targeting Hamas weapon stash, they were targeting HAMAS personnel, ( meaning Israel was looking to kill people )

Yes, people sometimes are accidentally killed during military actions. And, yes, the people who are firing rockets at you (i.e. Hama personnel) are legitimate targets when you're trying to stop the rockets.

That said, given the number of Hamas rocket sites in schools, hospitals, zoos and other public places, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if Hamas started firing rockets in the midst of children on a beach. No, I'm not saying that happened here. I'm saying that Hamas uses civilians as shields during their own actions.

 

[Finger_Shocker]

Yes, people sometimes are accidentally killed during military actions. And, yes, the people who are firing rockets at you (i.e. Hama personnel) are legitimate targets when you're trying to stop the rockets.

According to that logic, ALL people are fair game in war...

You can't label someone/group a terrorist when gov't engage in same exact thing.

There are no accidental deaths in war, someone has to pull the farking trigger on someone.... If you think civilians are "fair game/or shit happens" then there is no such thing as terrorists because everyone is fair game when they are on the "other" side

 

[Syntax Error]

According to that logic, ALL people are fair game in war...

You can't label someone/group a terrorist when gov't engage in same exact thing.

There are no accidental deaths in war, someone has to pull the farking trigger on someone.... I

You're not using logic. Yes, sometimes civilians die during a war. This is regrettable but it happens. The difference is whether or not the other side is intentionally targeting civilians or if it was accidental. There is no evidence that Israel is intentionally targeting children on a beach. There is a ton of evidence that Hamas is launching rockets to strike civilian population centers indiscriminately. Whoever is a "terrorist" here isn't really important. Hell, Hamas is the ruling government in Gaza. So let's just say that we have two governments, one of which is indiscriminately attacking civilian population centers with rockets and the other government trying to stop it.

Saying there's no accidental deaths in war is just silly. If you strike the wrong target, that's called an "accident".

 

[Finger_Shocker]

You're not using logic. Yes, sometimes civilians die during a war. This is regrettable but it happens. The difference is whether or not the other side is intentionally targeting civilians or if it was accidental. There is no evidence that Israel is intentionally targeting children on a beach. There is a ton of evidence that Hamas is launching rockets to strike civilian population centers indiscriminately. Whoever is a "terrorist" here isn't really important. Hell, Hamas is the ruling government in Gaza. So let's just say that we have two governments, one of which is indiscriminately attacking civilian population centers with rockets and the other government trying to stop it.

Saying there's no accidental deaths in war is just silly. If you strike the wrong target, that's called an "accident".

Well if you have and use sophisticated pinpoint targeting system and still kill the wrong people that is NO accident.. You cannot call that a accident

Hamas do not have sophisticated targeting system so them killing random people can be consider a accident using your logic.

 

[berzirk]

Yah, Syntax doesn't get it, or is just under-educated on what's going on. You don't warn civilians that their home is about to be destroyed by dropping smaller explosives on the roof. And if they are trying to kill Hamas members (who have offered a truce twice recently) then giving that 3 minute tip that people's homes are about to be destroyed gives them time to escape too, right?

So it's fine to level buildings to kill 1 bad guy. Where do those displaced families go? To the beach?  Well, that didn't work out too well for 4 kids who were shot at not once, but twice. If you're Israel, you've got nukes, a military, $3B in aid from the US annually, then of course you're going to win any regional battle, but what Israel is losing repeatedly now, for the first time in my life, is the PR battle. THIS is the only thing that will cause real ripples.  Public pressure mounts from all other countries, and now despite your unbreakable allegiance with America, EVERYONE else insists on a decrease of arms.  Maybe they attack another US battleship, shoot down a plane, do something to tip our military leaders over the edge, and now the politicians who are in bed with the lobbyists start to fall. 

Israel will ALWAYS win with respect to warfare, but they're losing PR, and that is going to be the only way to force them to be a responsible, peace-pursuing entity.

And yes, rebel is a total parody account. I'd block him, but sometimes I get lulz off of the trollish posts.

 

[Syntax Error]

Well if you have and use sophisticated pinpoint targeting system and still kill the wrong people that is NO accident.. You cannot call that a accident

Hamas do not have sophisticated targeting system so them killing random people can be consider a accident using your logic.

Well, it's nice that you think it's impossible to kill the wrong people on accident with a missile but you're wrong.

And firing rockets randomly into populated areas is pretty much the opposite of an "accident". But if this is honestly what you think to be true I guess we're done here.

 

[Syntax Error]

Yah, Syntax doesn't get it, or is just under-educated on what's going on. You don't warn civilians that their home is about to be destroyed by dropping smaller explosives on the roof. And if they are trying to kill Hamas members (who have offered a truce twice recently) then giving that 3 minute tip that people's homes are about to be destroyed gives them time to escape too, right?

The same Hamas that just turned down an Egypt brokered peace agreement? That not "recently" enough for you? And, yes, it does give them time to escape. Hopefully, the IDF can at least destroy the rockets since Hamas isn't transporting them all out in time. The IDF is stuck between warning the civilians and letting Hamas potentially escape as well or just blowing up Hamas and any civilians. That's what happens when you base your rocket sites in the middle of civilian populations and use people as unwilling human shields.

So it's fine to level buildings to kill 1 bad guy. Where do those displaced families go?

That's an excellent question. If I was in Gaza, it'd be a great question to ask Hamas -- the local government -- who happens to be using my home's location as a firing site and is making my home a target.

So, tell me, what is Hamas' plan for helping residents displaced when they use that location as a rocket site? I'm sure they have one and aren't just using to locations to drum up support against the Big Bad Israelis who "level buildings to kill one [agent of the local Hamas government waging war against Israel]", right?

 

[Finger_Shocker]

Well, it's nice that you think it's impossible to kill the wrong people on accident with a missile but you're wrong.

And firing rockets randomly into populated areas is pretty much the opposite of an "accident". But if this is honestly what you think to be true I guess we're done here.

Your argument works in a recent news report where a homeowner decided to kill a spider with a make shift blow torch .... well you can imagine what happened... and why it made the news just a couple days ago

Just know they are basically lobbing rocks over the wall ( considering Israel IRON defense shot down everything that was lunched at them ) .. Hamas actions is more like rocks throwing, Israel action is in line with sniper-ing,

You ever seen countries where citizens are defenseless and the gov't/police have all the weapons, well guess what the citizens are just lobbing whatever they can and hope they hit someone on the other side as "defense"

I'm not saying Hamas is right, but heavy handed tactic where you kill 4 children running on the beach and call them "accidents" is inexcuseable... This was the same excuse the USA used when we murdered a couple of journalists, and called them accidents or mistaken for "terrorists" ... And the person who ratted out the USA coverup is currently sitting in jail..

 

[berzirk]

So these 3 story apartment buildings, have an alleged bad guy...and how it's alleged, who knows, of course there is no transparency there, so it's not like a 3rd party could say, "wow, well done Israel, you blew up a house where a bad guy lived in the basement, and displaced two families, but at least the bad guy is homeless now too!"

So this whole, Hamas hiding behind civilians thing is also laughable, because they are an elected political party. Remember with the PLO, led by Yasser Arafat, had their headquarters surrounded, shelled, and shot at for weeks? So if you're Hamas, you think you're going to raise a nice building, slap a Hamas flag on it, and go about business as usual?  Israel would blow that thing up before they could pour the foundation. So explain to me why Israel should be attempting to execute recognized political party leaders?

Where else in the world is executing political adversaries considered an acceptable solution? And this is all coming from our dear allies who have attacked us, spied on us, drug us into conflicts that weren't ours...and are the "only democracy in the middle east".  They are out of control, feel backed into a corner, and are lashing out at anything close to them.  They are losing the PR war, and that's going to cost them sympathetic hearts and minds throughout the world.  They desperately need Iran to attempt another holocaust so they can work up enough international sympathy to have carte blanche access to any and all means of dealing with their enemies.

Oh, and thanks to a lack of recognition from the US and Israel, what power does Hamas have to do anything?  They were an alternative to the pandering, incapable, embezzling PLO government, but they're fully neutered by the US and Israel, whereas the PLO was just missing one ball.

 

[rebelschs]

Sometimes I post some off the wall stuff, but that is how I think. Sometimes my opinions may be considered extreme, but that is the beauty of the U.S.A. We can all think what we want, and we all get an opinion.

I do not think that the blame should be placed on Israel for this situation. The blame should go to the U.N. because they are the ones who took the land to create Israel. They should be pissed at them, and take the fight there. I would stand up with the Palestinians if they were to go about it in that manner.

However, that is not how the world works. The way that they fight with Israel is not fair, and Israel should do whatever they need to defend themselves. You have people who will fire rockets from a group of civilians and run to hide in a school. Are they all like that? No. Are all of the people of Palestine evil? No. 

We can discuss whether the creation of Israel was right or wrong, and I won't get into that discussion. I will say that the U.N. should take their headquarters out of the U.S.A. and we need to get out. I think a lot of our problems would go away if we kept our noses out of other people's business. 

 

[Finger_Shocker]

Sometimes I post some off the wall stuff, but that is how I think. Sometimes my opinions may be considered extreme, but that is the beauty of the U.S.A. We can all think what we want, and we all get an opinion.

I do not think that the blame should be placed on Israel for this situation. The blame should go to the U.N. because they are the ones who took the land to create Israel. They should be pissed at them, and take the fight there. I would stand up with the Palestinians if they were to go about it in that manner.

However, that is not how the world works. The way that they fight with Israel is not fair, and Israel should do whatever they need to defend themselves. You have people who will fire rockets from a group of civilians and run to hide in a school. Are they all like that? No. Are all of the people of Palestine evil? No.

We can discuss whether the creation of Israel was right or wrong, and I won't get into that discussion. I will say that the U.N. should take their headquarters out of the U.S.A. and we need to get out. I think a lot of our problems would go away if we kept our noses out of other people's business.

This shows just how ignorant you are and how clueless you are of history.

When is a right wing nut ever on the side of actual history?

Israel was a by-product of a British mandate under Churchill and 26 years before the UN was even formed. So Palestine can only beg for membership from the UN, funny how the UN give membership to even worst gov'ts but refuse to acknowledge Palestine.

Feel free to discuss history when you actually know history

And the worst thing is when stupid people open their mouth and even stupider people buy that garbage as truth... :/

FYI for your highly troubling views of how we should treat people seeking help and immigrants, you have no right to even say Israel have the right to defend its land ( when Israel don't even own that land except under military might )

 

[egofed]

How can you support Hamas? They are firing rockets into a civilian population. I do find the way Israel was founded as unjust, but what nation has a clean history? Israel has every right to defend itself as a currently established nation against tunneling and rocket attacks. Hasn't Hamas spoken openly about destroying Israel and driving every Jew into the sea? Hmmmm, why wouldn't the UN support them?  I am against the expansion of borders and any blockade of the Palestinian people. They need to police themselves and realize that Hamas will bring down Israel's wrath if it continues its current strategies. Peaceful people must sometime rise up and punish the violent among them to have continued peace.

Israel is surrounded by enemies in an ancient area with too many people and too much religious significance. It is fun to watch Americans and other countries not in that situation judge them. For all the atheist and agnostic posters, check out how prophecy in Revelations is aligning throughout the years. Is the temple fully rebuilt yet?

 

[Syntax Error]

Just know they are basically lobbing rocks over the wall ( considering Israel IRON defense shot down everything that was lunched at them ) .. Hamas actions is more like rocks throwing, Israel action is in line with sniper-ing,

No, throwing rocks is "like throwing rocks". They are firing explosive projectiles indiscriminately at civilian population centers. That's not "like throwing rocks" unless your rocks are explosive and can be thrown a great distance. Why do people have this insane need to try to diminish this so much? Yes, the IDF is better armed. That doesn't make the rockets any less rockets. If I shoot you with a musket and you shoot back with a modern rifle, should I say it's unfair because I was just throwing rocks? And the reason WHY they are firing rockets is because of the big security wall that was built to stop them from entering the cities and blowing off bombs on buses, in cafes, at schools, etc. So, no, I have absolutely no pity for the fact that they are firing rockets. If they had a more efficient way of killing Israeli citizens, they'd be doing that instead. Thank God they don't.

So this whole, Hamas hiding behind civilians thing is also laughable, because they are an elected political party. Remember with the PLO, led by Yasser Arafat, had their headquarters surrounded, shelled, and shot at for weeks? So if you're Hamas, you think you're going to raise a nice building, slap a Hamas flag on it, and go about business as usual? Israel would blow that thing up before they could pour the foundation. So explain to me why Israel should be attempting to execute recognized political party leaders?

Where else in the world is executing political adversaries considered an acceptable solution?

Is this a joke? When another government is actively attacking you, that government gets attacked. That's sort of how war works. Grow up. You don't want someone shooting missiles at you? Try not firing rockets at them.

Oh, and your heroes in Hamas were just caught storing rockets in a UN school. Not that they're using civilians as shields or trying to drum up support from tools who'll then decry Israel "Bombing a school when Hamas is just throwing rocks!!" of course.

 

[GBAstar]

rockets... rocks.. same thing..

All by a movement founded by people of the "peaceful religion"... or something.

 

[berzirk]

Is this a joke? When another government is actively attacking you, that government gets attacked. That's sort of how war works. Grow up. You don't want someone shooting missiles at you? Try not firing rockets at them.

Oh, and your heroes in Hamas were just caught storing rockets in a UN school. Not that they're using civilians as shields or trying to drum up support from tools who'll then decry Israel "Bombing a school when Hamas is just throwing rocks!!" of course.

Israel is an occupying force in Gaza and the West Bank, much like the US has been in Iraq and Afghanistan. Explain to me what the US would do if Iran was granted land by the UN, that amounted to New York City. (This is actually a great analogy on a few levels). Surely the government would be cool with it, wouldn't fight back, and would let Iran hold nukes, weapons, etc. To say the creation of Israel was kinda a bummer for the Palestinians but that was then and this is now is ridiculous. You have adults today who were children kicked out of their homes while they were bulldozed to build settlements for Europe's poor, white trash (Russians and Eastern Europeans). That's not like saying slavery from 300yrs has no impact on today's society, this is the same generation. We revere Holocaust survivors, why shouldn't we revere Palestinian survivors of the occupation and decades of violence.

Read Avi Shlaim's The Iron Wall. Guy is a Jewish historian, lived in Iraq, and teaches in the UK. Understanding the history of the conflict is going to really help you understand what's going on today, why it's going on, and why without American involvement, it's never going to change. He references facts, quotes, and documents. Draw your own conclusion.

EDIT-Meh...had a lot more written out, but frankly, I don't think you'll read it or respond to it, so I'll keep it shorter and sweeter.

 

[berzirk]

rockets... rocks.. same thing..

All by a movement founded by people of the "peaceful religion"... or something.

TROLLOLOLOL

The US does a nice job of implement the other "peaceful religion" as do the chickenhawk Christians who dominate the right and wish war on everyone:

They follow their book just fine, right, and don't act outside of its teachings, right? If so, Christianity is the most hateful, dangerous, violent religion on the planet, condoning rape, incest, murder, and much more. The US is the perfect, Christian nation...if only they could get rid of those pesky gays...

 

[Syntax Error]

Laughable? Hardly. Explain to me what you think Israel would do if Hamas built political headquarters in Gaza or the West Bank.

That's a strawman on your part. I never made the argument for them to build a new structure. They are also perfectly capable of using existing structures and... wait for it... clearing out all the surrounding people BEFORE they make it a target for IDF strikes. But then they don't get all the "Israelis are murdering people!" news stories. Also, they might actually be responsible for finding new homes for those people as opposed to now where we just say it's all Israel's fault.

And to the point of storing weapons, it's funny how you are willing to consider Hamas an official governmental agency with full authority and control of the population, when even the United States government won't, but anyway, let's call them an authorized government...why shouldn't they be allowed to stockpile weapons?

(A) Hamas is the elected government in Gaza. The people there, at the very least, consider them so. They are the negotiating party in peace talks and claim responsibility for the military action they are waging against Israel. Whether or not they have diplomatic representation with the US or whatever is irrelevant to the point. These aren't vague "bad guys" or "extremists", they are people elected as the acting government there.

(B) You conveniently left out "stored rockets in a UN school". Which is what I just mentioned. Considering that any weapons caches or stockpiles is a legitimate target during a military action, storing them in civilian centers and buildings such as schools and hospitals (where they were caught last time) is somewhere between wildly irresponsible and traitorous to their own civilians since you're making those buildings targets. But, again, they do this for the "Boohoo, Israel blew up a SCHOOL! They're so mean" effect and idiots just lap it up.

Someone who is unfamiliar with Hamas being the government in Gaza and "forgetting" to mention that Hamas is using schools as rocket cache locations really isn't someone I'm going to waste time debating the history of the conflict with. In the here and now, the government in Gaza is waging a military campaign against the government in Israel. Is that a smart move on their part? Are they waging it in the best interests of the people they were elected to represent? I say "no" on both parts.

That said, I do agree that there's enough tools so obviously manipulated by Hamas doing this that they will keep blaming Israel on the global stage.

 

[berzirk]

That's a strawman on your part. I never made the argument for them to build a new structure. They are also perfectly capable of using existing structures and... wait for it... clearing out all the surrounding people BEFORE they make it a target for IDF strikes. But then they don't get all the "Israelis are murdering people!" news stories. Also, they might actually be responsible for finding new homes for those people as opposed to now where we just say it's all Israel's fault.

(A) Hamas is the elected government in Gaza. The people there, at the very least, consider them so. They are the negotiating party in peace talks and claim responsibility for the military action they are waging against Israel. Whether or not they have diplomatic representation with the US or whatever is irrelevant to the point. These aren't vague "bad guys" or "extremists", they are people elected as the acting government there.

(B) You conveniently left out "stored rockets in a UN school". Which is what I just mentioned. Considering that any weapons caches or stockpiles is a legitimate target during a military action, storing them in civilian centers and buildings such as schools and hospitals (where they were caught last time) is somewhere between wildly irresponsible and traitorous to their own civilians since you're making those buildings targets. But, again, they do this for the "Boohoo, Israel blew up a SCHOOL! They're so mean" effect and idiots just lap it up.

Someone who is unfamiliar with Hamas being the government in Gaza and "forgetting" to mention that Hamas is using schools as rocket cache locations really isn't someone I'm going to waste time debating the history of the conflict with. In the here and now, the government in Gaza is waging a military campaign against the government in Israel. Is that a smart move on their part? Are they waging it in the best interests of the people they were elected to represent? I say "no" on both parts.

That said, I do agree that there's enough tools so obviously manipulated by Hamas doing this that they will keep blaming Israel on the global stage.

Cool story bro. I've forgotten more details on the Middle East and Palestinian-Israeli relationship than you know. Believe me when I say the lack of replies will be mutually beneficial.

 

[Syntax Error]

Cool story bro. I've forgotten more details on the Middle East and Palestinian-Israeli relationship than you know.

Well, that much is apparent.

 

[rebelschs]

This shows just how ignorant you are and how clueless you are of history.

When is a right wing nut ever on the side of actual history?

Israel was a by-product of a British mandate under Churchill and 26 years before the UN was even formed. So Palestine can only beg for membership from the UN, funny how the UN give membership to even worst gov'ts but refuse to acknowledge Palestine.

Feel free to discuss history when you actually know history

And the worst thing is when stupid people open their mouth and even stupider people buy that garbage as truth... :/

FYI for your highly troubling views of how we should treat people seeking help and immigrants, you have no right to even say Israel have the right to defend its land ( when Israel don't even own that land except under military might )

Why should Israel not have the right to defend itself?

That is like saying if someone breaks in your house and kills your family you have no right to defend yourself.

 

[Finger_Shocker]

Why should Israel not have the right to defend itself?

That is like saying if someone breaks in your house and kills your family you have no right to defend yourself.

What about the Palestinians, do they have a right to defend themselves also..

How would you feel if someone continue to push there property line over yours?

Do the innocents who die have not be able to seek justice?

 

[Sarang01]

For all of these people giving Israel a pass so much this has gone on for decades and it's only getting worse considering the Israeli government has gotten even more right wing.  Read Max Blumenthal's "Goliath:  Fear and Loathing In Greater Israel" if you want to get a real idea how ed up it is there.  It's not just about the Palestinians, some of the attitudes of the right-wingers in the government resemble the bigotry that some in the Japanese government still have towards certain groups like the Zainichi Koreans, Ainu and Burakumin.

The idea of Japanese blood in the past seems strikingly similar to the argument by Jews about the Beduoins.  The Beduoins, who fled places in Africa for asylum in Israel, aren't allowed out at night there.  Some have made the case for not breeding with these Black people, that they must keep Israeli or Jewish blood pure.

In the past, Israel bombed the only flour factory in Palestine.  Let's not forget about the American girl Rachel Cori, who was bulldozed over by a Caterpillar, to knock over a Palestinian building to make room for more Jewish settlements.  Rachel was staying with the Palestinian family who lived there and was trying to keep their building from being bulldozed.  No real court case was brought up against the Israeli government for murdering an American citizen.  The thing was just swept under the rug.  It makes me feel so good to know that as an American if any injustice is committed against me an investigation will go underway unless it happened in Israel.  I need to convert to Judaism to get full recognition I guess.

Oh whoever called those people white trash was right for some.  Look at Avigdor Lieberman and his conduct in the Kinnesit.

The reason Israelis get away with this crap is WWII so they can always drag out the Holocaust and argue in self-defense.  Never mind their actions towards the Palestinians remind one of the Apartheid of South Africa. 

Oh and I forgot to lob the last reason Jews in general get away with some of this crap...Jesus.  Jesus was the Son of God and such an unbigoted man and a Jew then, by extension, all Jews must be great and not prejudiced and don't deserve any of the crap they get.

 

[perdition(troy]

What about the Palestinians, do they have a right to defend themselves also..

How would you feel if someone continue to push there property line over yours?

Do the innocents who die have not be able to seek justice?

Israel disengaged from Gaza in 2005.

 

[bigdaddybruce44]

Who's making things worst: Israel or Palestine?

Palestine. Next question...

 

[Finger_Shocker]

Palestine. Next question...

hmmmm are these simple mind... simple answers?

 

[mrsilkunderwear]

For all of these people giving Israel a pass so much this has gone on for decades and it's only getting worse considering the Israeli government has gotten even more right wing. Read Max Blumenthal's "Goliath: Fear and Loathing In Greater Israel" if you want to get a real idea how ed up it is there. It's not just about the Palestinians, some of the attitudes of the right-wingers in the government resemble the bigotry that some in the Japanese government still have towards certain groups like the Zainichi Koreans, Ainu and Burakumin.

The idea of Japanese blood in the past seems strikingly similar to the argument by Jews about the Beduoins. The Beduoins, who fled places in Africa for asylum in Israel, aren't allowed out at night there. Some have made the case for not breeding with these Black people, that they must keep Israeli or Jewish blood pure.

In the past, Israel bombed the only flour factory in Palestine. Let's not forget about the American girl Rachel Cori, who was bulldozed over by a Caterpillar, to knock over a Palestinian building to make room for more Jewish settlements. Rachel was staying with the Palestinian family who lived there and was trying to keep their building from being bulldozed. No real court case was brought up against the Israeli government for murdering an American citizen. The thing was just swept under the rug. It makes me feel so good to know that as an American if any injustice is committed against me an investigation will go underway unless it happened in Israel. I need to convert to Judaism to get full recognition I guess.

Oh whoever called those people white trash was right for some. Look at Avigdor Lieberman and his conduct in the Kinnesit.

The reason Israelis get away with this crap is WWII so they can always drag out the Holocaust and argue in self-defense. Never mind their actions towards the Palestinians remind one of the Apartheid of South Africa.

Oh and I forgot to lob the last reason Jews in general get away with some of this crap...Jesus. Jesus was the Son of God and such an unbigoted man and a Jew then, by extension, all Jews must be great and not prejudiced and don't deserve any of the crap they get.

Was Hitler a right wing nut?

 

[berzirk]

Out of curiosity, who thinks the US should get involved, ignore, continue to financially and politically back only-Israel?  Would be nice if you gave a reason for your opinion.

Mine is that the US should ignore. Meaning they cut financial support to Israel, Egypt, and the Palestinian Authority, and make it purely an Israel/Palestine/UN issue. Make both parties have to rely on the charity and support of the international community. That might put enough pressure on both of them, to have to find a longer term solution.

 

[asampedasjohor]

just want to share this video about jon stewart comment on Israel-Palestine Gaza conflict...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqKu5rSTyP8

 

[dohdough]

Just goes to show ya that Stewart is a self-hating Liberal Jew. Who's with me?

 

[berzirk]

That Jew bastard Zionist anti-Israeli self hating terrorist!  We shall march!

 

[rebelschs]

Mine is that the US should ignore. Meaning they cut financial support to Israel, Egypt, and the Palestinian Authority, and make it purely an Israel/Palestine/UN issue. Make both parties have to rely on the charity and support of the international community. That might put enough pressure on both of them, to have to find a longer term solution.

I agree with you here. I think it would be in our best interest if we started doing this with more countries. We need to keep our noses out of some things, and this is a pretty good example. I don't think our politicians, any of them, can help the situation.

I can't single out Obama or John Kerry on this. If we had a person who we could send over there to straighten the mess out, it would be great, but this is an issue USA can't fix. I don't like the UN, I don't agree with having their headquarters here, but they need to take action on this. We really don't need to get involved in this matter, but it needs to get moving toward a resolution before someone gets nuked.

 

[RPGNinja]

We should most certainly stay out of the affairs. But personally in this particular it is all Palestine's fault this time. They decided to dig underground tunnels to find another way to attack them and Israel responded. The reoccurring theme is that Palestine gets mad at Israel for retaliating with their superior technology even though Palestine attacked first.

 

[Finger_Shocker]

The whole tunnel excuse is ridiculous and it has cause thousand of innocent lives,  Israel is not looking for tunnels cause that would be like looking for rabbit holes in your backyard, you will never find them all.

But if the are digging tunnels Israel would be wiser to wait till the rabbit pop out instead of following the rabbit

There are many reasons why Israel is looking to weaken Palestine as much as possible and none of it has to do with tunnel searching

We know they killed thousands that were innocents and children, how many militant did they actually killed?  

 

[egofed]

The whole tunnel excuse is ridiculous and it has cause thousand of innocent lives, Israel is not looking for tunnels cause that would be like looking for rabbit holes in your backyard, you will never find them all.

But if the are digging tunnels Israel would be wiser to wait till the rabbit pop out instead of following the rabbit

There are many reasons why Israel is looking to weaken Palestine as much as possible and none of it has to do with tunnel searching

We know they killed thousands that were innocents and children, how many militant did they actually killed?

Are you saying to wait for the suicide bombers to "pop out" instead of destroying the source? If I was an Israeli citizen, then I would not be in favor of waiting.

 

[berzirk]

Yah, the tunnel excuse is ridiculous, and you're trying to tell me there is no technology that would either penetrate deep enough to sense holes, there is no intelligence that shows tunnels being dug, and nothing seismology related could pick up underground drilling?

And if that's the primary reason, then why are neighborhoods being leveled. This is all about intimidation, to justify mass murder, Israel just didn't count on social media and on-site journalists to report what they saw.  This is starting to apply to major news networks.  Israel reporting Hamas blew something up, NBC field reporters saying Hamas didn't, it came from an Israeli drone.

Both sides are lying and trying to promote their damages, but the disproportionate violence from Israel is indefensible.  I never thought John Kerry had balls, but it sounds like he's been running on common sense and respect for human life in the stance he's taking with trying to work towards a cease-fire, which will always fail with Netanyahu. The world's best bet for peace is for someone within Israel to assassinate him, or leave him like a vegetable like that war criminal pig Ariel Sharon.  That guy couldn't rot away fast enough.

 

[egofed]

Yah, the tunnel excuse is ridiculous, and you're trying to tell me there is no technology that would either penetrate deep enough to sense holes, there is no intelligence that shows tunnels being dug, and nothing seismology related could pick up underground drilling?

And if that's the primary reason, then why are neighborhoods being leveled. This is all about intimidation, to justify mass murder, Israel just didn't count on social media and on-site journalists to report what they saw. This is starting to apply to major news networks. Israel reporting Hamas blew something up, NBC field reporters saying Hamas didn't, it came from an Israeli drone.

Both sides are lying and trying to promote their damages, but the disproportionate violence from Israel is indefensible. I never thought John Kerry had balls, but it sounds like he's been running on common sense and respect for human life in the stance he's taking with trying to work towards a cease-fire, which will always fail with Netanyahu. The world's best bet for peace is for someone within Israel to assassinate him, or leave him like a vegetable like that war criminal pig Ariel Sharon. That guy couldn't rot away fast enough.

Do think if Hamas had the Israeli armies technology and resources that they would treat Israeli civilians better? Should we ignore all the "Death to Israel" chants by people in power? I think Israel is showing great restraint in not just wiping everyone in Gaza out. I would make a decree that if one more rocket is fired into Israel from a location, then the whole force and might of the Israeli army would be brought to bear there. A gov't's number one responsibility is to protect its people and borders. This crap has been going on way too long and calls for drastic action. I do find it funny that you would try to "sense" the tunnels being dug into your sovereign nation. It should be freaking war, dude. A wise general does not let the enemy continue to eternally pick apart his defenses. Actions have repercussions. Try continually throwing rocks thru the White House's windows and see how much "disproportionate violence" you will become acquainted with.

 

[berzirk]

Do think if Hamas had the Israeli armies technology and resources that they would treat Israeli civilians better? Should we ignore all the "Death to Israel" chants by people in power? I think Israel is showing great restraint in not just wiping everyone in Gaza out. I would make a decree that if one more rocket is fired into Israel from a location, then the whole force and might of the Israeli army would be brought to bear there. A gov't's number one responsibility is to protect its people and borders. This crap has been going on way too long and calls for drastic action. I do find it funny that you would try to "sense" the tunnels being dug into your sovereign nation. It should be freaking war, dude. A wise general does not let the enemy continue to eternally pick apart his defenses. Actions have repercussions. Try continually throwing rocks thru the White House's windows and see how much "disproportionate violence" you will become acquainted with.

Have you looked at a map? Explain to me how Israel wipes Gaza off the map. Tactical nukes...while destroying their own country? They can't for a whole host of reasons. And if Hamas had Israeli technology would they do the same thing? Probably. Don't you agree. Assuming you do, it doesn't bother you that Hamas is classified as an international terrorist organization, while Israel is the Middle East's only democracy and America's strongest ally in the world? So yes, I do think an alleged terrorist organization would probably do what Israel is doing. I expect better from a developed country, than I do a band of terrorists with rockets.

There are also international limits to war, as agreed on by the US and much of the world. Things like no chemical warfare including phosphorous shells that dropped on South Lebanon the last time Israel went to war. I didn't say let dudes dig tunnels then kill them when they pop up (another poster did, and that's idiocy, if you know of these tunnels, take them out. I sure would like to see some third party confirmation that they exist, or are as prominent as Israel is telling us. Seems insane that with modern technology they would have no clue of their presence until they were mostly finished.

Personally, if Israel did complete genocide and "wipe Gaza off the Earth" I think the US would finally break ties and Israel would be allllll alone in the world. They might have a kickass military, but when the rest of the world wants you gone because you're the punk ass teenager that thought he was hotshit in Lincoln, NE when he could slap around little kids and took his act to Compton or Oakland and figured out quickly that on the global scale he was just a big bully in a small town and got his ass beat, Israel is going to understand that when you've got 10 countries from Europe, Middle East, and Asia who are done with the act, your little piece of land could quickly be underwater.

Israel is losing the PR war. You dumbs who keep digging your heels into the sand and pretending like the mass killings are just what some asshole terrorist raghead sandn*****s deserve may be too dense to understand it, but in the longrun people will look back and see that you were on the wrong side of history. Of course by then Cheapy's son might be running CAG, but it will happen. Israel is losing the battle by killing more guys on the other side. They better pray at the Wailing Wall from now until the next election that someone highly Israel friendly like Hillary Clinton or Chuck Schumer get elected, because if it's not a bend over backwards to support Israel President, they're going to keep calling, but that red phone isn't going to be answered.

If the Oval Office got setup in my kitchen thanks to England and France, you're goddamn right I'd be throwing rocks at the window.

Early in this conflict, I thought there was blame on both sides for starting it, and keeping it going. At this point Israel is attempting genocide. I've never seen so many Jews, both personal connections, and in the public light, denounce Israel so thoroughly. Humanity is against genocide, why you aren't, I can't explain.

 

[RPGNinja]

The whole tunnel excuse is ridiculous and it has cause thousand of innocent lives, Israel is not looking for tunnels cause that would be like looking for rabbit holes in your backyard, you will never find them all.

But if the are digging tunnels Israel would be wiser to wait till the rabbit pop out instead of following the rabbit

There are many reasons why Israel is looking to weaken Palestine as much as possible and none of it has to do with tunnel searching

We know they killed thousands that were innocents and children, how many militant did they actually killed?

You don't want innocent lives lost? Then don't attack Israel. Unfortunately in war innocent lives DO get lost.

Why aren't you talking about the innocent lives Israel has lost as well. It is funny you keep saying "innocent lives are lost" but you make it a one way street.

 

[GBAstar]

Yah, the tunnel excuse is ridiculous, and you're trying to tell me there is no technology that would either penetrate deep enough to sense holes, there is no intelligence that shows tunnels being dug, and nothing seismology related could pick up underground drilling?

And if that's the primary reason, then why are neighborhoods being leveled. This is all about intimidation, to justify mass murder, Israel just didn't count on social media and on-site journalists to report what they saw. This is starting to apply to major news networks. Israel reporting Hamas blew something up, NBC field reporters saying Hamas didn't, it came from an Israeli drone.

Both sides are lying and trying to promote their damages, but the disproportionate violence from Israel is indefensible. I never thought John Kerry had balls, but it sounds like he's been running on common sense and respect for human life in the stance he's taking with trying to work towards a cease-fire, which will always fail with Netanyahu. The world's best bet for peace is for someone within Israel to assassinate him, or leave him like a vegetable like that war criminal pig Ariel Sharon. That guy couldn't rot away fast enough.

Apparently Hamas doesn't even have the technology to keep their own rockets from falling short and killing their own people. But uh... save face and blame your blunder on the other site is politics 101 right?

Pretty good quote in regards to Hamas "...being capable of making war but not peace" but of course Palestines have to speak under a cloak of anonymity.

 

[RPGNinja]

Berzirk is such a Hamas apologist.

Yah Berzirk there is no tunnels going on right?

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2014/July/Video-Shows-Hamas-Using-Tunnels-to-Ambush-IDF-/

Oops that sucks for you.

 

[berzirk]

Berzirk is such a Hamas apologist.

Yah Berzirk there is no tunnels going on right?

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/insideisrael/2014/July/Video-Shows-Hamas-Using-Tunnels-to-Ambush-IDF-/

Oops that sucks for you.

I didn't doubt their existence, I was doubting that it was the motive for going to war and leveling Gaza.

The first sentence in my second paragraph wondering how Israel doesn't have better methods for dealing with these tunnels or detecting them was "And if that's the primary reason, then why are neighborhoods being leveled." If I'm giving the benefit of the doubt that Israel went to war for these "terror tunnels", then my question was why neighborhoods were being destroyed, to deal with tunnels. That right there is based on the premise that they exist.

So your reading comprehension sucks for you...and for me, because I had to waste three minutes explaining why you misunderstood.

It's pretty amazing that you are such a big fan of enormous civilian deaths. I can only imagine you're either a sociopath, or just such an immense bigot, that pictures of dead Arab/Muslim children gives you a raging hardon. Assuming that's true...that sucks for you and any neighborhood pets.

Let's see if you're actually a human being or not: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/gaza/11001631/UN-spokesman-breaks-down-talking-about-Gaza-child-deaths.html

And Hamas apologist? Not in the slightest. I'm pro-children not being murdered in their homes or being made homeless. That doesn't require political or foreign policy goggles to assess.

 

[egofed]

Way to play the "dead children" card, Berzirk. Do you really believe anybody  here is happy to see innocents die? What I am hoping for is that Hamas will recognize the fact that they are causing Israel to take extreme measures by firing rockets (over 2500 I think) into civilian areas, digging terror tunnels, and publicly calling for the death of Jews and the eradication of Israel. According to NPR, Hamas has declined cease fire truces unless their demand for the blockade to be removed is met. I am torn on the blockade, Israel is providing food and resources to Gaza, rationed I'm sure, but weapons were pouring in thru the port and being used against Israel. Do you let someone who swears to kill you amass the means to do so? If Israel would be allowed to exist, without extending its borders, and Hamas would be happy with the established 1948 guidelines, then maybe they could have peace. Maybe Israel should have kept all the lands it won in the wars? War is hell. Dead people suck, but I withhold a lot of judgment when I am not the one having rockets and tunnels thrown at me with the intent to kill innocents. Israel has the power to finish this fight. How can you blame them for doing that versus backing out and awaiting the next attacks?

Israel is supposed to come under attack by all the surrounding nations according to how you interpret Biblical prophecy. I am against us sending them such crazy amounts of money. And we send money to Hamas, a recognized terrorist power?!? WTF?

Finally, I do not support a nuclear option to be used against Gaza. Peace only works if both sides really want it. Hamas does not appear to want it, hence what other choice does Israel have?

 

[perdition(troy]

mass murder lol ok berzirk.