Ultimate Warrior memorial wrestling thread 1959-2014

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Hogan was stale LONG before the NWO. He was stale in the WWF in the early '90s, and famously got booed in the '92 Rumble eliminating Sid. While his WCW run on TV looked amazing due to the pomp and circumstance, he was booed there as well. He teased a heel turn in '95, but even that was just an excuse for more masturbatory feuds. The Doomsday Cage bullshit was the epitome of that, while Hogan-Butcher and all of Hogan's buddies getting jobs in the company hurt the core roster immensely. Hogan sure did sell a lot of merch though - because as Jericho's first book notes, the sales for other wrestlers' stuff was actually credited to Hogan so he got a cut.

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Other than Roode-MVP being awful and featuring the worst Sharpshooter ever done by a Canadian, I loved this week's Impact! Everything with Muta was fun. Well, the match was a tad sad, but the Sanada angle was just perfect. You had Storm as the devil on the shoulder literally clad in red making fantastic faces while Sanada figuratively stole Muta's legacy by taking his moves from him. Taryn-Gail III was fun, and Low-Ki's massacre of DJZ was a blast too. The new Aristra bodysuit looks good on him - hopefully this run lasted longer than two shows and he doesn't fuck up yet another chance in wrestling. What a wasted talent he is, and it's his own doing. The debut of BIG ZEKE HE USED TO GO BY and Snitsky wasn't good. I love the idea of Dixie countering the original ECW with the REAL ECW - Vince McMahon's vision of it. Maybe Steph will give her a retweet.

http://jayreviewsthings.blogspot.com/2014/07/tna-impact-7-24-14.html

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http://www.imagebam.com/gallery/ja9ixiy00uaut7g3no3hr84tbo9b2c0l

 
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If you like professional wrestling get hyped.

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Man color me impressed. Low Ki was freaking amazing. I do not recall ever seeing him in a match before, I think I watched TNA just after he left. He really reminded me of a monkey, he just tossed himself around the ring with both a quickness and intensity like an animal. He could tone down the overacting a bit, little too intense facial reactions IMO. I enjoyed it enough that even though I fast forward through most matches i watched the whole thing.

 
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MSI Magus said:
Man color me impressed. Low Ki was freaking amazing. I do not recall ever seeing him in a match before, I think I watched TNA just after he left. He really reminded me of a monkey, he just tossed himself around the ring with both a quickness and intensity like an animal. He could tone down the overacting a bit, little too intense facial reactions IMO. I enjoyed it enough that even though I fast forward through most matches i watched the whole thing.
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He was briefly in WWE as Kaval. He won the second season of NXT.
 
so did they ever say when stink  I mean  sting  will appear   on  the  WWE front.  Cousin said they heard he will run in and cost  cena  the match with  Brock and  sting and brock will be more of a team thing. (highly doubt that) 

 
Foley posted a little rant on his Facebook today about Zack Ryder and I gotta agree with him 100%. The bold part I highlighted is so true.

Mick Foley wrote the following on his Facebook today:
THE SAD STORY OF ZACK RYDER

*author's note - I originally wrote this story as "The Tragedy of Zack Ryder", but, after watching the evening news filled with real tragedies, downgraded it to a "sad story"

The story of Zack Ryder is a sad one.

It's a sad story because I've seen so much great, hard-working talent recently on the independent scene, and know how difficult it is for them to even get a shot at the big time, let alone get over...really over. Zack Ryder was over...and now he's not.

It's a sad story because he found a new and unique way to make himself a valuable commodity in WWE - and now his value is gone.

It's a sad story because in November of 2011, after a heavily promoted "once in a lifetime" teaming up of John Cena - WWE Universe and Dwayne The Rock Johnson, Madison Square Garden, the most famous arena in the world erupted in "We want Ryder" chants - and now those chants are gone.

It's a sad story because I refereed several of his main event matches in Europe in that fall of 2011, and saw the joy with which he was received by the fans in that main event role - a role he is unlikely to ever know again.

It's a sad story because fans bought his merchandise, they watched his show on You Tube, they liked him on Facebook (almost 1.5 million) they followed him on Twitter (over 1.5 million) and he made people smile - and now those smiles are gone.

It's a sad story because eventually people get tired of finding out that the WWE Superstars they have supported with their cheers, their purchases, their signs, their follows and their likes aren't real Superstars - and little by little, those fans lose interest in WWE, find other interests, and become former WWE fans.

It's a sad story because the next time WWE talent is given the speech about reaching for the brass ring, at the very least, in the back of their minds, they should be thinking about the guy who reached out and grabbed that brass ring - and was asked to return it.

Maybe his surprise victory on #RAW will be the start of something new. Maybe.

I remember standing in the ring with Zack and #CMPunk at Nassau Coliseum and gladly handing over my claim to being Long Island's most popular wrestler to Zack, Take a good look at that photo. Really look at it. Look at me, still important enough in the company's eyes to be part of an in-ring celecration. Look at Punk, breaking character, and willingly looking foolish, because it was a fun thing to do, and Zack Ryder's character made having fun, and wearing a ridiculous wig seem like the right thing to do. Look at the joy on Zack's face. That type of joy was infectuous. It's the type of joy we're not likely to see again. That photo is less than three years old...but it seems like such a long, long time ago.

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That's sad.
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Also if you wanna go more indepth, I highly suggest listening to Jericho's latest podcast episode where he also has Ryder on as a guest. Really good episode.

 
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slidecage said:
so did they ever say when stink I mean sting will appear on the WWE front. Cousin said they heard he will run in and cost cena the match with Brock and sting and brock will be more of a team thing. (highly doubt that)
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Tell your cousin to stop listening to his rice krispies.

 
Rumor was the reason Hero was let go was because he refused to dedicate himself enough to weight lifting and training. It was said HHH in particular was upset with him and feels that young guys not being willing to do this really shows a lack of seriousness for the business. I can appreciate that thought too. I mean wrestling is an incredibly physical business and it's also a business about appearance. If the wwe meet me and for some reason wanted to put me in the ring my fat ass would spend as much time as they thought was appropriate and I don't even want to be a wrestler. This business does take dedication and just like with amateur wrestling I can understand not making the time if your coaches feel like your slack assign on training.

That said....I wish for guys that were already big like Samoa Joe they would bring them in anyways!
 
They wouldn't bring in Samoa Joe because he sucks. The only person still on the indies the WWE could use is AJ Styles, but they'd bury him in the middle card like anyone else worth watching.

 
MSI Magus said:
Rumor was the reason Hero was let go was because he refused to dedicate himself enough to weight lifting and training. It was said HHH in particular was upset with him and feels that young guys not being willing to do this really shows a lack of seriousness for the business. I can appreciate that thought too. I mean wrestling is an incredibly physical business and it's also a business about appearance. If the wwe meet me and for some reason wanted to put me in the ring my fat ass would spend as much time as they thought was appropriate and I don't even want to be a wrestler. This business does take dedication and just like with amateur wrestling I can understand not making the time if your coaches feel like your slack assign on training.

That said....I wish for guys that were already big like Samoa Joe they would bring them in anyways!
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They did spend a bunch of money setting up that performance center for these guys to use.

In most of the Kliq member shoots they seem to always make it a point that Triple H was in the gym every day even if all of the other guys he was traveling with were fucked up.

 
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I caught a snipet of a rock interview the other day where he was talking about dieting and training for Hercules or whatever his next movie is. He said he was eating 7 meals a day and I mean steak and pasta and heavy stuff. He was working out so much that he HAD to consume that much. I am obviously not saying Rock or Ryback type diets and bodies need to be the norm, but I am saying that there is a dedication to greatness that some guys just have (not that Ryback is great, but his muscles are undeniable). Choosing to not work out be it your physique or cardio(both are important obviously)you are chosing to handicap yourself immensly. It sounds and looks like Hero did both.
 He is starting to look like me from behind :(

 
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MSI Magus said:
I caught a snipet of a rock interview the other day where he was talking about dieting and training for Hercules or whatever his next movie is. He said he was eating 7 meals a day and I mean steak and pasta and heavy stuff. He was working out so much that he HAD to consume that much. I am obviously not saying Rock or Ryback type diets and bodies need to be the norm, but I am saying that there is a dedication to greatness that some guys just have (not that Ryback is great, but his muscles are undeniable). Choosing to not work out be it your physique or cardio(both are important obviously)you are chosing to handicap yourself immensly. It sounds and looks like Hero did both.
He is starting to look like me from behind :(
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There's a certain breed of Hollywood actor that kind of goes all out with their body shaping regiments. The Rock is one. Hugh Jackman is another (The Wolverine). Christian Bale is another. I just don't know how healthy it is in the long run to stay that bulky in your older years. I think we take wrestlers for granted in that they're supposed to have these massive bulky defined bodies. But they mostly do the same things the actors do but at a fraction of the payout.

 
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WWE officials reportedly recently told Cesaro to quit doing his Cesaro Swing move because of how it was getting over with the fans.

Source: PWInsider

I cannot imagine that this could possibly be true, but with WWEs track record I guess it is possible. Guy gets over, doesnt suck HHH balls, hes told to stop getting over, and then pushes the Miz. Makes sense to me!

 
It seems kinda ridiculous to 1. Call him the King of Swing, 2. Make a jacket that says King of Swing on the back. 3. Sell a T-Shirt that says King of Swing on it, and then tell him to stop doing it.

 
WWE is insane. They've decided Cesaro isn't going to get over like they want. So they've made their mind up to suck away any heat he might otherwise get. This way he is a dead fish when they let him go. Nice. 

 
Much like they did with Daniel Bryan back at the beginning of the year, I hope it backfires on WWE.  Essentially it's because he's getting over on his own without them giving him a push, they now want to start limiting him.   Meanwhile they'll try to shove the Miz down our throats.

It's about as stupid as when they tried to get Goldberg to stop using the Jackhammer finisher and just use the spear as his only finisher.

 
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Well, here is to hoping that is just another be rumor started by the dirtsheets and not anotherbs attempt by WWE to punish a guy who got over without sucking up to HHH first.
 
Some thoughts after finishing the first 25 episodes of RAW for the first time since I saw them as a kid way back when. In numerical order for your convience no less!

1. Does WWE own the rights to use Doink? If so I would LOVE to see them bring the charcter back again. I know they had multiple people wrestle as him over the years so I dont see why not.

2. I miss count out victories!

3. I forgot just how bad Raw and I guess wrestling in general was at some points. Some of these guys honestly look like they are wearing Pajama pants and a mask as costumes sometimes. I know, make him wear all silver and a biker helmet and we will call him the martian! So many of the matches were squash matches too. Like it seems MOST of what the WWE does this day is a mid card guy against a mid card guy and so on. But those early Raws most of the matches were Razor Ramon vs the Martian or Bret Hart vs the Dumpster Diver(who is just some guy that got to wear Brooklyn Brawlers gear).

4. Bobby Henan, Macho Man and Vinny Mac were the best comment team ever! Vince was a better version of Michael Cole and a great counter balance to Henan and Macho Mans over the top commentary.

5. My wife and I both have started Macho Man the Cocaine Cowboy. His blinged out hats combined with his crazy statements, constant shaking and licking his lips. Macho is one of my favorites, but it should have been his gimmick!

6. Love that Hacksaw Jim Duggan once won a match and instead of an interview just called for everyone to stand and say the pledge. You could tell from Vinces reaction that the whole thing was totally off script. Ofcourse Macho Man as always made the skit by just being the first one to excitedly join right in!

7. Kamala trying to pin people in odd ways is one of my favorite bits, wish they would bring it back for a new wrestler. For those that dont recall basically they would have him try and pin people while they were knocked out laaying on their stomach instead of their back. His manager would yell and motion for him to roll them over, which resulted in him rolling them COMPLTLY over so they were back laying on their stomach. Later in the match they would have him mess it up by rolling them over 3 times then trying to pin them, or he would go to pin someone laying on their back but roll them over first.

8. Has there ever been a time where any wrestler from another country wasnt harrased by USA chants?

9. The Million Dollar Man and IRS may be the best heel tag team ever. I wonder if MDM had gotten in jacked shape like a lot of the other guys how much farther he had gotten. He was just so damn good at being that persona.

10. Bring back ring girls!

11. HBK is overated. His in ring work cant be denied and he carried himself as the flamboyant jack ass like no other. His promos and interviews were never worthy of a top level guy though from what I can call or even see today. *ducks for cover*

12. Its amazing how fast things changed. Size of audiences, level of violence and how much they pushed the limit even before WCW.

13. Christ has Vince always loved the Carny side show parts of wrestling both good and bad. The fireworks, big lights and crazy outfits and hair....but also midgets, making fun of fat people and anyone else disabled and low low low brow humor.

14. Bartlet was the worst WWE employe ever.
 

 
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Man, I need to get back to Raw on the Network. I haven't watched those old Raws in a couple months. I have only made it through 60-70 episodes of that particular program. I'll have to check the notebook in which I keep track of everything I've ever watched on WWE Network these past 5 months. Yes, I'm weird.

EDIT: Magus- is "The Martian" referring to Max Moon? Guessing "Dumpster Diver" is Duke "The Dumpster" Droese. Not trying to be that dude... just attempting to clarify due to my own curiosity.
 
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The Ceasaro thing if true is incredibly stupid. I can understand the urge to have him hold back and then when the moment is right have him bring back the move in a HUGE match or against a big dude like Lesnar. However, there is so much more to gain from creating a "ecosystem" thats touched as little as possible. Let people rise and fall naturally, listen to who the fans get behind and just as importantly put the data you know they are gathering on us with WWE network to good use. Make the rare times where you step in backed by data. For example if 90% of people fast forward past Alberto Del Rio interviews but those same people watch his matches, it might just mean he needs more time in the ring and less on the mic. They have a cash cow on their hands with that data if they just learn to analyze it properly.

 
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Matt Young said:
Man, I need to get back to Raw on the Network. I haven't watched those old Raws in a couple months. I have only made it through 60-70 episodes of that particular program. I'll have to check the notebook in which I keep track of everything I've ever watched on WWE Network these past 5 months. Yes, I'm weird.

EDIT: Magus- is "The Martian" referring to Max Moon? Guessing "Dumpster Diver" is Duke "The Dumpster" Droese. Not trying to be that dude... just attempting to clarify due to my own curiosity.
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LOL I totally pulled both out of my ass. They just seemed like bad gimmicks the WWE would use. I had compltly forgot either of those guys existed.

 
I enjoyed the dumb gimmicks, haha. Yokozuna and the Undertaker and Diesel are all dumb gimmicks and the guys were able to make them work. And the really bad ones were always good for a laugh. Also, I loved a lot of the matches on Raw in the early years. Tons of great matches with Doink, 123 Kid, Bret Hart, Shawn Michaels, Mr Perfect, Owen Hart, even had a bunch of good tag team matches. And there was NO HOGAN!! (for most of the time) which was great!

 
The worst thing they did with Cesaro was take him away from Swagger.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgGnVd9vaKk

Heel or face, that gimmick is OVER and it's over in a big way.

He used it to transition to being a Heyman guy, and while that was fine, why bother if you're going to squander it like a month later? They should have just kept him with Swagger (or if they wanted him heel, he could have joined Rusev).

I'll never understand why they keep wasting decent talent. Listening to Zack Ryder on Jericho's podcast was almost heartbreaking.

Also:

11. HBK is overated. His in ring work cant be denied and he carried himself as the flamboyant jack ass like no other. His promos and interviews were never worthy of a top level guy though from what I can call or even see today. *ducks for cover*
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HBK has an undeniable talent and he makes anyone he wrestles look incredible in the ring. Ziggler has a lot of this too, and it's why people are clamoring for him to be top level.

Shawn Michaels was always a guy who had "it" and he was great both in the ring and out. Take Summerslam 2005 against Hogan for example:

He cut this skit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ-Sayfnhvg

Then proceeded to do this in the ring:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC6jPR4OyUw (mute the song)

You see, back in the day, it didn't matter if you were the world champion or not, because there were places on the roster for fan favorites and villains regardless of titles or accolades. Dibase for example was nefarious and never had to be a great wrestler because he was so hateable people gave him huge heat and that's exactly what his role was -- to be an obnoxious jerk. Heyman essentially does this now, but in a more Bobby Heenan way.

 
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Well, Hogan left the WWF about 6 months after Raw started. Not that he ever did much on the regular weekly TV before that.
 
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I never really found HBK or HHHs impersonations funny. Thought they were forced, repitive and too obvious. Again maybe I am in a minority, but I just dont find that funny. Thats humor though, like I said I do not deny his ring work at all. I 100% agree that he was not just amazing himself, but one of those rare guys that made OTHER people look better as well. He just sold every move and even when he was a big ham, he sold it so well it still felt believable.

 
I do not understand why I liked Lex Luger as a kid so much. The only explanation I have was that I liked putting my little brother in the torture rack so much......

He is just so painfully stiff and dull both in and out of ring.

 
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I like the swing, it is the move that kinda sets him apart, since no one else does it.

By that I mean a move that is in that style, not a modified DDT or piledriver, etc.

 
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHbhTau6PFs

The thing with Shawn is that he didn't get great until his Rumble win against Bulldog. He was pretty meh until that point. He had this especially silly spot as a heel where he'd get knocked outside and try running up only to get knocked back down again and again only to throw a tantrum when he couldn't make it back inside. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNd3-RCIVdg

The Rumble was the first time he looked like he actually belonged at the top of the card. And then it wasn't until his face push the year after that I personally got behind him and the whole boyhood dream angle. It was really hard not to after the fantastic angle where he passed out in the ring after the enzuguri by Owen. That got so much empathy for his character. At the time nobody gave more of himself in the ring than HBK. His matches against Hart (Iron Man Match), Diesel (In Your House No Holds Barred), Undertaker (Hell in a Cell), and Mankind (Mind Games) were better than everyone else on the roster. 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x18901q_wwf-in-your-house-7-good-friends-better-enemies-shawn-michaels-vs-diesel-no-holds-barred-match-wwf-c_sport

I personally hated his original DX heel turn because I genuinely liked him in the vanilla good guy role. He played it far better than Cena, Hogan, or Hart in that it was easy for us to feel bad for him getting his ass kicked. I wanted to cheer the guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCOofmDglZg

After he came back after his first retirement it was clear that Shawn had lost a step. Instead of being vastly more athletic than everyone else he could go about as well as anyone else on the roster. Instead of just using his athleticism to take make himself look good Shawn improved how he put his matches together instead. This is when he introduced things like chops and body slams to his move set.

It's this iteration of Shawn that pretty much made his legacy as he began putting on better matches than ever. His matches against HHH, Undertaker, Cena, Flair, Jericho, Angle, and Benoit are all fantastic and still hold up for most. He has lesser quality feuds in trying to put people over like Rhodes, Dibiase Jr., Batista, among others, but even so if you're watch Shawn's stuff from the 90's, he doesn't get worth watching until 1995.

 
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With Spike absolutely wanting nothing to do with Russo and TNA and Russo having a secret partnership that got leaked a few weeks ago, I think it's pretty much the nail in the coffin.

 
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