2008 NFL Season Thread
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[quote name='Soodmeg']Well the problem you run into is that everyone wants it both ways.
Why is Warner not a great QB but someone like Eli is? Saying you have to look beyond stats is easy but at some point you are going to have to present some tangible facts that make a player good or not. The ultimate goal of football is to win a SB something Kurt has been to multiple time and have won and been an MVP for.
So if Warner is only "decent" even after winning a SB and MVP honors then leading the Rams to another what does that say about Culter, Rodgers, Rivers, Brees, Palmer, Romo and the handful of other QB that are considered good?
I just hate how people down grade winning the superbowl. Screw stats, screw awards, screw everything the 1 goal of a NFL team is not to produce the Rookie of the year or the MVP of the League but to win a Superbowl, thats it all the rest is just fan service. Thats why they say the Play offs are a "new season" because its not about the fans and putting butts in the seat, its about bringing your best players and fighting a way to the superbowl.
So whats your standard DJ? I understand looking beyond the stats at the guys who can just get it done and win games but winning just "games" means nothing if its not the Superbowl. That was the biggest knock on Peyton was that he just won game and couldnt get to the Superbowl.
I will put it this way, though it would have killed me to do so and to every actually say it if Rex Grossman would have won the Superbowl I would have to upgrade him from "horrid ass bum who should have never played a NFL game," to at least average. Because you simply cant take a superbowl ring away from someone no matter how bad they are they still found a way to get one and you have to give them some type of credit for it.
Actually come to think of it, Eli is basically just a Rex Grossman that actually won the superbowl.
#
EDIT: I guess I would say that Kurt Warner is "sporadic," when he is on he is indeed a great QB without a doubt but when he is off he goes into being completely average. But that still doesnt take away that he went to 2 superbowls winning one and getting MVP honors. Thats something 80% of the leagues hasnt done.[/quote]
Everyone forgets that the Rams back then had the #9 and #7 defenses in the league those years..
Kurt Warner has a great arm.. and with good wrs, that makes a dangerous offense.. it's tough to say who is better than who because obviously they are running different offenses, different personnel, etc.. i hate making lists.. I think Kurt Warner had the second best year of the QBs in the NFC, Brees being the first without the 2 of the top receivers in the league and a horrible defense...I think that Warner wouldn't be nearly as good with a different team where Whisenhunt wasn't running the offense.. I have no hate towards Warner, I'm from Pittsburgh and I went to the same high school as Breaston, and partied with Fitzgerald a couple of times at Pitt..if the Steelers don't make it, I'm rooting for the Cards...
Why is Warner not a great QB but someone like Eli is? Saying you have to look beyond stats is easy but at some point you are going to have to present some tangible facts that make a player good or not. The ultimate goal of football is to win a SB something Kurt has been to multiple time and have won and been an MVP for.
So if Warner is only "decent" even after winning a SB and MVP honors then leading the Rams to another what does that say about Culter, Rodgers, Rivers, Brees, Palmer, Romo and the handful of other QB that are considered good?
I just hate how people down grade winning the superbowl. Screw stats, screw awards, screw everything the 1 goal of a NFL team is not to produce the Rookie of the year or the MVP of the League but to win a Superbowl, thats it all the rest is just fan service. Thats why they say the Play offs are a "new season" because its not about the fans and putting butts in the seat, its about bringing your best players and fighting a way to the superbowl.
So whats your standard DJ? I understand looking beyond the stats at the guys who can just get it done and win games but winning just "games" means nothing if its not the Superbowl. That was the biggest knock on Peyton was that he just won game and couldnt get to the Superbowl.
I will put it this way, though it would have killed me to do so and to every actually say it if Rex Grossman would have won the Superbowl I would have to upgrade him from "horrid ass bum who should have never played a NFL game," to at least average. Because you simply cant take a superbowl ring away from someone no matter how bad they are they still found a way to get one and you have to give them some type of credit for it.
Actually come to think of it, Eli is basically just a Rex Grossman that actually won the superbowl.
#EDIT: I guess I would say that Kurt Warner is "sporadic," when he is on he is indeed a great QB without a doubt but when he is off he goes into being completely average. But that still doesnt take away that he went to 2 superbowls winning one and getting MVP honors. Thats something 80% of the leagues hasnt done.[/quote]
Everyone forgets that the Rams back then had the #9 and #7 defenses in the league those years..
Kurt Warner has a great arm.. and with good wrs, that makes a dangerous offense.. it's tough to say who is better than who because obviously they are running different offenses, different personnel, etc.. i hate making lists.. I think Kurt Warner had the second best year of the QBs in the NFC, Brees being the first without the 2 of the top receivers in the league and a horrible defense...I think that Warner wouldn't be nearly as good with a different team where Whisenhunt wasn't running the offense.. I have no hate towards Warner, I'm from Pittsburgh and I went to the same high school as Breaston, and partied with Fitzgerald a couple of times at Pitt..if the Steelers don't make it, I'm rooting for the Cards...
H-Town Info
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[quote name='DJSteel']Josh McDaniels as the Broncos head coach.. not sure that was a good move.. but getting Nolan as the DC.. that was a great move...[/QUOTE]
basically they have to blow up their personnel. DJ Williams doesn't fit a 3-4 scheme and their front 7 doesn't fit either.
basically they have to blow up their personnel. DJ Williams doesn't fit a 3-4 scheme and their front 7 doesn't fit either.
[quote name='DJSteel']Josh McDaniels as the Broncos head coach.. not sure that was a good move.. but getting Nolan as the DC.. that was a great move...[/quote]
It's a GREAT move for McDaniels though. He's 32 and getting a team that should win at least 6-8 games next year in what will be considered a "rebuilding year". Even if he totally fails in Denver (and he won't because they are already surrounding him with smart people like Nolan) he will be like 35 with head coaching experience. He is going to make a lot of money in this league before it's all said and done. He probably had a lot of options opening up next year or the year after but honestly, no one wants the Detroit job, Kansas City and St. Louis are a mess - the Denver job is awesome.
It's a GREAT move for McDaniels though. He's 32 and getting a team that should win at least 6-8 games next year in what will be considered a "rebuilding year". Even if he totally fails in Denver (and he won't because they are already surrounding him with smart people like Nolan) he will be like 35 with head coaching experience. He is going to make a lot of money in this league before it's all said and done. He probably had a lot of options opening up next year or the year after but honestly, no one wants the Detroit job, Kansas City and St. Louis are a mess - the Denver job is awesome.
integralsmatic
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[quote name='pimpinc333']
Also when I was watching the Arizona game. I found out Boldin, Fitz, and Breaston all had 1000 yards receiving. Has this be done before?[/QUOTE]
I think so but im not sure.I think it happend when manning hit the TD record. Stokely,Wayne.and Harrison all hit for 1000 years.
Also when I was watching the Arizona game. I found out Boldin, Fitz, and Breaston all had 1000 yards receiving. Has this be done before?[/QUOTE]
I think so but im not sure.I think it happend when manning hit the TD record. Stokely,Wayne.and Harrison all hit for 1000 years.
FriskyTanuki
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[quote name='DJSteel']Pac Man is such a linguist[/quote]
:lol: I'm watching the Outside the Lines report on the situation that got him kicked off of the Cowboys roster and had that exact same thought. I'd love to see tapes of his meetings with Roger Goddell to see if that changes.
Looking at the list, I can mostly agree with maybe a few spot changes. You have to remember that very few guys in the league have won a Super Bowl and even less have won MVPs, Super Bowl or NFL MVPs, so the list of course has to include the guys on the outskirts. It didn't come as totally about previous accomplishments since Brett Favre is not on top of the list
Super Bowl Winners (order of earliest wins)
Brett Favre - 96
Kurt Warner - 99
Tom Brady - 01, 03, 04
Brad Johnson - 02
Ben Roethlisberger - 05
Peyton Manning - 06
Eli Manning - 07
Super Bowl MVPs
Kurt Warner - 99
Tom Brady - 01, 03
Peyton Manning - 06
Eli Manning - 07
Super Bowl Appearances
Brett Favre - 96, 97
Kurt Warner - 99, 01
Kerry Collins - 00
Tom Brady - 01, 03, 04, 07
Brad Johnson - 02
Jake Delhomme - 03
Donovan McNabb - 04
Ben Roethlisberger - 05
Matt Hasselbeck - 05
Peyton Manning - 06
Rex Grossman - 06
Eli Manning - 07
NFL MVPs
Brett Favre - 95, 96, 97
Kurt Warner - 99, 01
Peyton Manning - 03, 04, 08
Tom Brady - 07
You can break it down further with Pro Bowls and other awards, but this is the gist of the top tier part of the list.
That leaves:
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Kurt Warner
Ben Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Donovan McNabb
Kurt Warner's easily on the bottom because he was basically bumming around since his peak with St. Louis, but is up there now because he's back near that peak with a great supporting cast.
McNabb, Eli, and Ben Roethlisberger are right above him because they've done things for you lately. McNabb is likely at most second in this bunch because he hasn't won the big one yet, but manages to play well without a great receiver to catch his passes. Ben Roethlisberger is probably third in that bunch because he has a great receiving core, but couldn't put up the numbers to support that this year. A Super Bowl visit and win with the way he played yesterday would change that. Eli is probably top because he's won lately on a great campaign last year and was doing very well this year before Plexico shot himself and ruined the flow of the offense with Eli missing his BFF at the end of the season.
Tom Brady and Peyton Manning is the top here for two sides of the elite coin, as Tom Brady just wins big and Peyton has the insane stats. Tom winning three Super Bowls puts him up top thought Peyton's three MVPs, a Super Bowl win, and great stats year in and year out keeps him close. Peyton will beat a lot of Favre's records whenever he decides to call it quits, putting him up there as one of the best ever. Peyton won that MVP this year because he managed to lead an offense that was completely out of sync at the beginning of the year to a 12-4 record with great stats either way.
So that leaves the rest of the pack that hasn't really done anything and where they stand.
Drew Brees is probably the best of the bunch just for his pure performance and skills, but that hasn't translated into success for the team just yet. The NFC South was an extremely tough division this year with every team being .500 or better and getting two teams in the playoffs, so if that defense can step up and match the way the offense plays.
Philip Rivers is also near the top because he's done well as a leader of that offense without much in the way of great receivers besides an injured Gates all season and the young Jackson, especially this season when they went 4-8 and pulled a playoff appearance our of their ass. He could be amongst that lower tier pack of Eli, Big Ben, and McNabb, but I'd put him below all three of those.
Cutler's up there because he won the eight games that Denver won and kept them in playoff contention despite a running game that fell apart and eleven guys on the other side of the ball that people thought was called a defense. He used his big three receivers (Scheffler, Marshall, and best rookie WR Eddie Royal) and whatever running back showed up that week to try to overcome the points that his defense gave up, which is a lot going against him to be third in the NFL in passing yards with less than 60 yards behind Kurt Warner. He just needs a steady, fairly reliable team around him and he could really go places if the new coach makes good choices for that defense.
Aaron Rodgers had a great year, but none of that translated into wins when they'd lose pretty much every close game they were in. Ryan Grant was also a big disappointment when he was really no help at all for most of the season.
Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco were rookies that did very well this year with a lot of help from great defenses (Baltimore), runnings backs (Atlanta), and receivers (Derrick Mason and Roddy White), but their maturity and poise was a good surprise, so continued success and leadership can only help them get higher up on the list.
Going outside that list, there's not much else in the way of potential quarterbacks to get into that top list. Kyle Orton played well for a bit of the season with that infamously inconsistent defense. Matt Schaub did very well when he was healthy with the beast called Andre Johnson. Matt Cassell did well in what was pretty much a throwaway season with Tom Brady out. Tony Romo's not living up to the potential. Chad Pennington's been too inconsistent in his past, but did very well this year.
:lol: I'm watching the Outside the Lines report on the situation that got him kicked off of the Cowboys roster and had that exact same thought. I'd love to see tapes of his meetings with Roger Goddell to see if that changes.
Looking at the list, I can mostly agree with maybe a few spot changes. You have to remember that very few guys in the league have won a Super Bowl and even less have won MVPs, Super Bowl or NFL MVPs, so the list of course has to include the guys on the outskirts. It didn't come as totally about previous accomplishments since Brett Favre is not on top of the list
Super Bowl Winners (order of earliest wins)
Kurt Warner - 99
Tom Brady - 01, 03, 04
Ben Roethlisberger - 05
Peyton Manning - 06
Eli Manning - 07
Super Bowl MVPs
Kurt Warner - 99
Tom Brady - 01, 03
Peyton Manning - 06
Eli Manning - 07
Super Bowl Appearances
Kurt Warner - 99, 01
Tom Brady - 01, 03, 04, 07
Donovan McNabb - 04
Ben Roethlisberger - 05
Peyton Manning - 06
Eli Manning - 07
NFL MVPs
Kurt Warner - 99, 01
Peyton Manning - 03, 04, 08
Tom Brady - 07
You can break it down further with Pro Bowls and other awards, but this is the gist of the top tier part of the list.
That leaves:
Tom Brady
Peyton Manning
Kurt Warner
Ben Roethlisberger
Eli Manning
Donovan McNabb
Kurt Warner's easily on the bottom because he was basically bumming around since his peak with St. Louis, but is up there now because he's back near that peak with a great supporting cast.
McNabb, Eli, and Ben Roethlisberger are right above him because they've done things for you lately. McNabb is likely at most second in this bunch because he hasn't won the big one yet, but manages to play well without a great receiver to catch his passes. Ben Roethlisberger is probably third in that bunch because he has a great receiving core, but couldn't put up the numbers to support that this year. A Super Bowl visit and win with the way he played yesterday would change that. Eli is probably top because he's won lately on a great campaign last year and was doing very well this year before Plexico shot himself and ruined the flow of the offense with Eli missing his BFF at the end of the season.
Tom Brady and Peyton Manning is the top here for two sides of the elite coin, as Tom Brady just wins big and Peyton has the insane stats. Tom winning three Super Bowls puts him up top thought Peyton's three MVPs, a Super Bowl win, and great stats year in and year out keeps him close. Peyton will beat a lot of Favre's records whenever he decides to call it quits, putting him up there as one of the best ever. Peyton won that MVP this year because he managed to lead an offense that was completely out of sync at the beginning of the year to a 12-4 record with great stats either way.
So that leaves the rest of the pack that hasn't really done anything and where they stand.
Drew Brees is probably the best of the bunch just for his pure performance and skills, but that hasn't translated into success for the team just yet. The NFC South was an extremely tough division this year with every team being .500 or better and getting two teams in the playoffs, so if that defense can step up and match the way the offense plays.
Philip Rivers is also near the top because he's done well as a leader of that offense without much in the way of great receivers besides an injured Gates all season and the young Jackson, especially this season when they went 4-8 and pulled a playoff appearance our of their ass. He could be amongst that lower tier pack of Eli, Big Ben, and McNabb, but I'd put him below all three of those.
Cutler's up there because he won the eight games that Denver won and kept them in playoff contention despite a running game that fell apart and eleven guys on the other side of the ball that people thought was called a defense. He used his big three receivers (Scheffler, Marshall, and best rookie WR Eddie Royal) and whatever running back showed up that week to try to overcome the points that his defense gave up, which is a lot going against him to be third in the NFL in passing yards with less than 60 yards behind Kurt Warner. He just needs a steady, fairly reliable team around him and he could really go places if the new coach makes good choices for that defense.
Aaron Rodgers had a great year, but none of that translated into wins when they'd lose pretty much every close game they were in. Ryan Grant was also a big disappointment when he was really no help at all for most of the season.
Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco were rookies that did very well this year with a lot of help from great defenses (Baltimore), runnings backs (Atlanta), and receivers (Derrick Mason and Roddy White), but their maturity and poise was a good surprise, so continued success and leadership can only help them get higher up on the list.
Going outside that list, there's not much else in the way of potential quarterbacks to get into that top list. Kyle Orton played well for a bit of the season with that infamously inconsistent defense. Matt Schaub did very well when he was healthy with the beast called Andre Johnson. Matt Cassell did well in what was pretty much a throwaway season with Tom Brady out. Tony Romo's not living up to the potential. Chad Pennington's been too inconsistent in his past, but did very well this year.
FriskyTanuki
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He's retired, isn't he? He's an ESPN analyst now.
BigT
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[quote name='dmaul1114']Warner is a damn good QB. He just struggled after the Rams due to a variety of injuries. It's a shame too. Imagine the stats he'd have if he'd stayed healthy and kept playing at that level/his current level.[/quote]
Well, the problem is that the Rams are perhaps the most incompetent and retarded team when it comes to personnel. They screwed up the potential Greatest Show on Turf dynasty by throwing the heart and soul of their offense (Kurt Warner) to the curb after 1 bad seasons that he played with a broken hand... then the got rid of their defensive leader (London Fetcher) and replaced him with Jamie freaking Duncan...
Now we're stuck with Bulger and a sorry ass defense...
Kurt Warner has been languishing as a backup because he was put into bad situations...
2002: tried playing with a broken hand and had the only terrible season in his career.
2003: Got a concussion in the first half of the first game of the season... still threw for ~350 yds in a losing effort and was benched by "Mad" Mike Martz for the rest of the year (Bulger took over, played a mediocre year and choked in the playoffs)
2004: In NY, they had no weapons on offense and a terrible O-line. He outplayed Eli Manning by far, but was still benched.
2005: Played on a Cardinals team with no offensive line and a moron (Denny Green) for a coach. Outplayed Mccown, but was still benched for a couple of games, then tore his MCL.
2006: Benched for "Golden Boy" Matt Leinart despite outplaying him...
2007: Leinart starts to suck and Whisenhunt institutes a QB rotation... thankfully Will Witherspoon soon ends Leinarts season with a vicious hit and both of the QBs can get back to what they do best: Warner playing football and Leinart partying in Hollywood.
2008: Leads Cardinals to the playoffs...
Do you realize how big of an accomplisment it would be to to lead the Cardinals, the NFL's oldest franchise, to the Superbowl?... their last championship was in 1947 and they haven't ever come close to the Super Bowl!
Well, the problem is that the Rams are perhaps the most incompetent and retarded team when it comes to personnel. They screwed up the potential Greatest Show on Turf dynasty by throwing the heart and soul of their offense (Kurt Warner) to the curb after 1 bad seasons that he played with a broken hand... then the got rid of their defensive leader (London Fetcher) and replaced him with Jamie freaking Duncan...
Now we're stuck with Bulger and a sorry ass defense...
Kurt Warner has been languishing as a backup because he was put into bad situations...
2002: tried playing with a broken hand and had the only terrible season in his career.
2003: Got a concussion in the first half of the first game of the season... still threw for ~350 yds in a losing effort and was benched by "Mad" Mike Martz for the rest of the year (Bulger took over, played a mediocre year and choked in the playoffs)
2004: In NY, they had no weapons on offense and a terrible O-line. He outplayed Eli Manning by far, but was still benched.
2005: Played on a Cardinals team with no offensive line and a moron (Denny Green) for a coach. Outplayed Mccown, but was still benched for a couple of games, then tore his MCL.
2006: Benched for "Golden Boy" Matt Leinart despite outplaying him...
2007: Leinart starts to suck and Whisenhunt institutes a QB rotation... thankfully Will Witherspoon soon ends Leinarts season with a vicious hit and both of the QBs can get back to what they do best: Warner playing football and Leinart partying in Hollywood.
2008: Leads Cardinals to the playoffs...
Do you realize how big of an accomplisment it would be to to lead the Cardinals, the NFL's oldest franchise, to the Superbowl?... their last championship was in 1947 and they haven't ever come close to the Super Bowl!
BigT
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Here's a nice summary making the case for Warner to be inducted into the HOF:
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/bitterbill/2009/01/making-warners-case-for-canton.html
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/bitterbill/2009/01/making-warners-case-for-canton.html
pimpinc333
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[quote name='BigT']Here's a nice summary making the case for Warner to be inducted into the HOF:
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/bitterbill/2009/01/making-warners-case-for-canton.html[/QUOTE]
It would be a shame if he wasn't inducted.
I love his story as well. He was stocking shelves at a local grocery store then a year later he wins the Super Bowl and was the MVP. Awesome.
http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/bitterbill/2009/01/making-warners-case-for-canton.html[/QUOTE]
It would be a shame if he wasn't inducted.
I love his story as well. He was stocking shelves at a local grocery store then a year later he wins the Super Bowl and was the MVP. Awesome.
FriskyTanuki
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Didn't the Rams have a kick returner that drove a beer truck before joining the team when he was around there, too?
BigT
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Plus, he has now turned around two absolutely awful teams (the Rams sucked for the entire 90s prior to 99, the Cardinals also have been terrible for years)...
1999 was the most magical year possible for a Rams fan like me!!! London Fletcher, Kurt Warner, and Marshall Faulk all pretty much fell out of the sky into the Rams grasp... to think that the Rams simply threw Warner out like a piece of garbage a few years later is sickening... even more sickening than when then left Anaheim for St. Louis...
1999 was the most magical year possible for a Rams fan like me!!! London Fletcher, Kurt Warner, and Marshall Faulk all pretty much fell out of the sky into the Rams grasp... to think that the Rams simply threw Warner out like a piece of garbage a few years later is sickening... even more sickening than when then left Anaheim for St. Louis...
BigT
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[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Didn't the Rams have a kick returner that drove a beer truck before joining the team when he was around there, too?[/quote]
You're thinking of Michael Lewis, who was not a Ram...
In 1999, Tony Horne dazzled Rams fans with his returns... unfortunately injuries and drug problems got the best of him a few years later... but in 99, he was magical...
You're thinking of Michael Lewis, who was not a Ram...
In 1999, Tony Horne dazzled Rams fans with his returns... unfortunately injuries and drug problems got the best of him a few years later... but in 99, he was magical...
FriskyTanuki
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That's right, he was on the Saints.
[quote name='BigT']
Now we're stuck with Bulger and a sorry ass defense...
[/QUOTE]
Bulger is a great QB when he has an offense around him. Don't forget he was just in the Pro Bowl a couple years ago. I'll admit I'm biased as I'm a WVU fan and was an undergrad during the time he played, but he has a quick release and is damn accurate when he's not getting murdered behind a terrible offensive line and playing hurt all the time.
Now we're stuck with Bulger and a sorry ass defense...
[/QUOTE]
Bulger is a great QB when he has an offense around him. Don't forget he was just in the Pro Bowl a couple years ago. I'll admit I'm biased as I'm a WVU fan and was an undergrad during the time he played, but he has a quick release and is damn accurate when he's not getting murdered behind a terrible offensive line and playing hurt all the time.
BigT
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Bulger is a nice QB, but not an elite QB. He has played great during 2 periods of time: In 2002 when he was trying to win a job and 2006 when he was playing for a contract... aside from that, he's been pretty mediocre...
...it is perhaps unfair, but in my mind, he'll always be compared to Warner, and even a few years ago, Bulger has never hit receivers in stride just like Warner used to, he totally locks on to receivers way too much, has a below average deep ball, is great b/w the 20s but not in the red zone, and never had the intangible passion and leadership qualities that Warner had...
...Overall, I like Bulger and wish that he could turn it around for the Rams' sake, but the wheels have really fallen off the bus for him the last couple years...
...it is perhaps unfair, but in my mind, he'll always be compared to Warner, and even a few years ago, Bulger has never hit receivers in stride just like Warner used to, he totally locks on to receivers way too much, has a below average deep ball, is great b/w the 20s but not in the red zone, and never had the intangible passion and leadership qualities that Warner had...
...Overall, I like Bulger and wish that he could turn it around for the Rams' sake, but the wheels have really fallen off the bus for him the last couple years...
[quote name='BigT']Bulger is a nice QB, but not an elite QB. He has played great during 2 periods of time: In 2002 when he was trying to win a job and 2006 when he was playing for a contract... aside from that, he's been pretty mediocre...
...it is perhaps unfair, but in my mind, he'll always be compared to Warner, and even a few years ago, Bulger has never hit receivers in stride just like Warner used to, he totally locks on to receivers way too much, has a below average deep ball, is great b/w the 20s but not in the red zone, and never had the intangible passion and leadership qualities that Warner had...
...Overall, I like Bulger and wish that he could turn it around for the Rams' sake, but the wheels have really fallen off the bus for him the last couple years...[/QUOTE]
Yeah he's not elite. But the Rams have just sucked the past couple of years. The Oline has sucked, the receivers suck after Holt (who gets doubled a lot), the run game has disappeared at times and he's played hurt a lot from getting sacked so much due to the oline sucking and the lack of a run game to keep teams from blitzing so much.
Put him on a team with a solid o-line, a running game and a 2 or 3 good receivers and I think he'd light it up again.
I agree he doesn't have a great deep ball, arm strength was never his strong suit. Just the quick release and accuracy.
...it is perhaps unfair, but in my mind, he'll always be compared to Warner, and even a few years ago, Bulger has never hit receivers in stride just like Warner used to, he totally locks on to receivers way too much, has a below average deep ball, is great b/w the 20s but not in the red zone, and never had the intangible passion and leadership qualities that Warner had...
...Overall, I like Bulger and wish that he could turn it around for the Rams' sake, but the wheels have really fallen off the bus for him the last couple years...[/QUOTE]
Yeah he's not elite. But the Rams have just sucked the past couple of years. The Oline has sucked, the receivers suck after Holt (who gets doubled a lot), the run game has disappeared at times and he's played hurt a lot from getting sacked so much due to the oline sucking and the lack of a run game to keep teams from blitzing so much.
Put him on a team with a solid o-line, a running game and a 2 or 3 good receivers and I think he'd light it up again.
I agree he doesn't have a great deep ball, arm strength was never his strong suit. Just the quick release and accuracy.
BigT
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Boldin is optimistic that he'll play on Sunday... Good news for the Cardinals.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ibuYciVqUVq8gE6x8QE7p7uioMfwD95N6D980
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ibuYciVqUVq8gE6x8QE7p7uioMfwD95N6D980
[quote name='Soodmeg']Like I thought, SD says that LDT status is on the table as far as him coming back to the team in the future.
What does Mr. Class do? Instantly calls the SD management for not being professional.[/quote]
NOT surprised. I'm sick of people waxing this guy's balls about him being classy. First of all, if you have to call yourself that, you're NOT.
Secondly, LDT (I refuse to call him LT) is a bitch who never has the big game when the Chargers need it the most. He's been a fantasy MVP, but unable to get his team over the hump in some bad playoff losses.
Remember how long it took him to get going this season (while the chargers sputtered to 4-8)? And then when he did, even that wasn't super impressive. He sat on the sidelines while his team took down the Colts. Yet he gets angry when people say he's starting to wear down. He is by far one of the most annoying, shit-talking-but-gets-a-pass players in the league.
What does Mr. Class do? Instantly calls the SD management for not being professional.[/quote]
NOT surprised. I'm sick of people waxing this guy's balls about him being classy. First of all, if you have to call yourself that, you're NOT.
Secondly, LDT (I refuse to call him LT) is a bitch who never has the big game when the Chargers need it the most. He's been a fantasy MVP, but unable to get his team over the hump in some bad playoff losses.
Remember how long it took him to get going this season (while the chargers sputtered to 4-8)? And then when he did, even that wasn't super impressive. He sat on the sidelines while his team took down the Colts. Yet he gets angry when people say he's starting to wear down. He is by far one of the most annoying, shit-talking-but-gets-a-pass players in the league.
Soodmeg
CAGiversary!
LDT is just an overall bitch and seems to not realize that classy is a compliant that other people give you.
LDT is just one of those players that just will never be as good as the myth that surrounds him. Yeah, he has tons of records but lately thats be on the back of outstanding back up RB Turner and Sprolies.
He also has the Karl Malone way of being a regular season HOFer but a complete and utter ghost when it comes to the play offs. And I dont want hear about how its a team game....he has tons of talent around him.
For me its the fact that there is about 10-15 other backs I would choose before even thinking about getting LDT if I was starting a team.
LDT is just one of those players that just will never be as good as the myth that surrounds him. Yeah, he has tons of records but lately thats be on the back of outstanding back up RB Turner and Sprolies.
He also has the Karl Malone way of being a regular season HOFer but a complete and utter ghost when it comes to the play offs. And I dont want hear about how its a team game....he has tons of talent around him.
For me its the fact that there is about 10-15 other backs I would choose before even thinking about getting LDT if I was starting a team.
[quote name='Soodmeg']For me its the fact that there is about 10-15 other backs I would choose before even thinking about getting LDT if I was starting a team.[/QUOTE]
Name them. I would say he is STILL in the top 5, even though he was hampered by injuries ALL season long(including the playoffs). But, for real even as a fan of the Chargers I would not be surprised to see him get traded. Actually after the Chargers lost to the Steelers, I said that he could end up out of SD.
I think the ideal situation for SD would be to keep BOTH Sproles and LT and go to more of a two-back system. But it would end up costing the Chargers too much money to keep both.
Name them. I would say he is STILL in the top 5, even though he was hampered by injuries ALL season long(including the playoffs). But, for real even as a fan of the Chargers I would not be surprised to see him get traded. Actually after the Chargers lost to the Steelers, I said that he could end up out of SD.
I think the ideal situation for SD would be to keep BOTH Sproles and LT and go to more of a two-back system. But it would end up costing the Chargers too much money to keep both.
Soodmeg
CAGiversary!
I think you are crazy if you think a lot of people would put him in the top 5. In no order what so ever and off the top of my head.
Sproiles.
Chis Johnson.
Brandon Jacobs.
Adrian Peterson.
DeAngelo Williams.
Michael Turner.
Willi Parker.
Bryan Westbrook.
Marion Barber
Marshawn Lynch
I think the biggest problem is the fact that most NFL teams run a 2 back system while SD is LDT all day everyday and if he cant get it done give it to sproiles/turner let them get near the endzone but pull them out so LDT can get his TD stats up.
Just think about this.....Brandon Jacobs runs a 3 back system and he still got over thousand yards this season and was 5th in the league in carries that went over 20 yards. Think about D. Williams from Carolina. He splits time and still got over 1000 yards and a handful of touchdowns.
SD biggest problem is that they are stuck in the old days thinking that you can just hand the ball to LDT on every possession and he will Jim Brown his way into the endzone. Even with being hurt he still came in 6th in attempts in the league and only had 6 carries over 20 yards this season...the highest was 20 with AP. D. Williams from the panthers had almost 20 less attempts but 400 hundred more yards them LDT while being in a 2 back system.
Come on man, if that doesnt tell you that most of LDT stats are forced nothing will. Anyone can look great when you go to them 50 times a game.
Sproiles.
Chis Johnson.
Brandon Jacobs.
Adrian Peterson.
DeAngelo Williams.
Michael Turner.
Willi Parker.
Bryan Westbrook.
Marion Barber
Marshawn Lynch
I think the biggest problem is the fact that most NFL teams run a 2 back system while SD is LDT all day everyday and if he cant get it done give it to sproiles/turner let them get near the endzone but pull them out so LDT can get his TD stats up.
Just think about this.....Brandon Jacobs runs a 3 back system and he still got over thousand yards this season and was 5th in the league in carries that went over 20 yards. Think about D. Williams from Carolina. He splits time and still got over 1000 yards and a handful of touchdowns.
SD biggest problem is that they are stuck in the old days thinking that you can just hand the ball to LDT on every possession and he will Jim Brown his way into the endzone. Even with being hurt he still came in 6th in attempts in the league and only had 6 carries over 20 yards this season...the highest was 20 with AP. D. Williams from the panthers had almost 20 less attempts but 400 hundred more yards them LDT while being in a 2 back system.
Come on man, if that doesnt tell you that most of LDT stats are forced nothing will. Anyone can look great when you go to them 50 times a game.
[quote name='Soodmeg']I think you are crazy if you think a lot of people would put him in the top 5. In no order what so ever and off the top of my head.
Sproiles.
Chis Johnson.
Brandon Jacobs.
Adrian Peterson.
DeAngelo Williams.
Michael Turner.
Willi Parker.
Bryan Westbrook.
Marion Barber
Marshawn Lynch
I think the biggest problem is the fact that most NFL teams run a 2 back system while SD is LDT all day everyday and if he cant get it done give it to sproiles/turner let them get near the endzone but pull them out so LDT can get his TD stats up.
Just think about this.....Brandon Jacobs runs a 3 back system and he still got over thousand yards this season and was 5th in the league in carries that went over 20 yards. Think about D. Williams from Carolina. He splits time and still got over 1000 yards and a handful of touchdowns.
SD biggest problem is that they are stuck in the old days thinking that you can just hand the ball to LDT on every possession and he will Jim Brown his way into the endzone. Even with being hurt he still came in 6th in attempts in the league and only had 6 carries over 20 yards this season...the highest was 20 with AP. D. Williams from the panthers had almost 20 less attempts but 400 hundred more yards them LDT while being in a 2 back system.
Come on man, if that doesnt tell you that most of LDT stats are forced nothing will. Anyone can look great when you go to them 50 times a game.[/QUOTE]
Sproiles.(no)
Chis Johnson.(time will tell)
Brandon Jacobs.(NO)
Adrian Peterson.(time will tell)
DeAngelo Williams.(time will tell)
Michael Turner.(time will tell)
Willi Parker.(time will tell)
Bryan Westbrook.(no, because of injuries)
Marion Barber(time will tell)
Marshawn Lynch(time will tell)
Sproiles.
Chis Johnson.
Brandon Jacobs.
Adrian Peterson.
DeAngelo Williams.
Michael Turner.
Willi Parker.
Bryan Westbrook.
Marion Barber
Marshawn Lynch
I think the biggest problem is the fact that most NFL teams run a 2 back system while SD is LDT all day everyday and if he cant get it done give it to sproiles/turner let them get near the endzone but pull them out so LDT can get his TD stats up.
Just think about this.....Brandon Jacobs runs a 3 back system and he still got over thousand yards this season and was 5th in the league in carries that went over 20 yards. Think about D. Williams from Carolina. He splits time and still got over 1000 yards and a handful of touchdowns.
SD biggest problem is that they are stuck in the old days thinking that you can just hand the ball to LDT on every possession and he will Jim Brown his way into the endzone. Even with being hurt he still came in 6th in attempts in the league and only had 6 carries over 20 yards this season...the highest was 20 with AP. D. Williams from the panthers had almost 20 less attempts but 400 hundred more yards them LDT while being in a 2 back system.
Come on man, if that doesnt tell you that most of LDT stats are forced nothing will. Anyone can look great when you go to them 50 times a game.[/QUOTE]
Sproiles.(no)
Chis Johnson.(time will tell)
Brandon Jacobs.(NO)
Adrian Peterson.(time will tell)
DeAngelo Williams.(time will tell)
Michael Turner.(time will tell)
Willi Parker.(time will tell)
Bryan Westbrook.(no, because of injuries)
Marion Barber(time will tell)
Marshawn Lynch(time will tell)
Soodmeg
CAGiversary!
[quote name='js1']Sproiles.(no)
Chis Johnson.(time will tell)
Brandon Jacobs.(NO)
Adrian Peterson.(time will tell)
DeAngelo Williams.(time will tell)
Michael Turner.(time will tell)
Willi Parker.(time will tell)
Bryan Westbrook.(no, because of injuries)
Marion Barber(time will tell)
Marshawn Lynch(time will tell)[/quote]
*facepalm
Come on man. You is be trippin. Whats up with the Sproiles hate? I would put him in front of LDT because I dont see LDT running back Kick offs and Punts. Sproiles is way more dangerous than LDT.
Back ups for a reason? Yeah, that reason is the SD sucks LDT balls to much. I think Michael Turner proved that he was indeed a starting running back and the only thing that was holding him back was the fact that SD didnt want him to split time with LDT.
Hell who saved you after your savior bailed for the 2nd straight year on you? Sproiles. He was the one that picked up the slack for you the same with Turner when he was there.
Time will tell what? It has already told that those guys are FAR more dangerous than LDT and how do you simply say NO to Brandon Jacobs? He was 5th in the league at carries over 20 yards with 12..that double what LDT had in a 3 back system.
And is Westbrook really that more injury prone that LDT is? Westbrook is most likely the single most dangerous RB in the last couple years and he can do it all. WR, RB, Blocking awarness. The guy is insane.
Time will tell......come on play boy :lol: you cant ask me to name them and then write them all off. Time will tell on AP?
Chis Johnson.(time will tell)
Brandon Jacobs.(NO)
Adrian Peterson.(time will tell)
DeAngelo Williams.(time will tell)
Michael Turner.(time will tell)
Willi Parker.(time will tell)
Bryan Westbrook.(no, because of injuries)
Marion Barber(time will tell)
Marshawn Lynch(time will tell)[/quote]
*facepalm
Come on man. You is be trippin. Whats up with the Sproiles hate? I would put him in front of LDT because I dont see LDT running back Kick offs and Punts. Sproiles is way more dangerous than LDT.
Back ups for a reason? Yeah, that reason is the SD sucks LDT balls to much. I think Michael Turner proved that he was indeed a starting running back and the only thing that was holding him back was the fact that SD didnt want him to split time with LDT.
Hell who saved you after your savior bailed for the 2nd straight year on you? Sproiles. He was the one that picked up the slack for you the same with Turner when he was there.
Time will tell what? It has already told that those guys are FAR more dangerous than LDT and how do you simply say NO to Brandon Jacobs? He was 5th in the league at carries over 20 yards with 12..that double what LDT had in a 3 back system.
And is Westbrook really that more injury prone that LDT is? Westbrook is most likely the single most dangerous RB in the last couple years and he can do it all. WR, RB, Blocking awarness. The guy is insane.
Time will tell......come on play boy :lol: you cant ask me to name them and then write them all off. Time will tell on AP?
[quote name='Soodmeg']I think you are crazy if you think a lot of people would put him in the top 5. In no order what so ever and off the top of my head.
Sproiles.
Chis Johnson.
Brandon Jacobs.
Adrian Peterson.
DeAngelo Williams.
Michael Turner.
Willi Parker.
Bryan Westbrook.
Marion Barber
Marshawn Lynch
I think the biggest problem is the fact that most NFL teams run a 2 back system while SD is LDT all day everyday and if he cant get it done give it to sproiles/turner let them get near the endzone but pull them out so LDT can get his TD stats up.
Just think about this.....Brandon Jacobs runs a 3 back system and he still got over thousand yards this season and was 5th in the league in carries that went over 20 yards. Think about D. Williams from Carolina. He splits time and still got over 1000 yards and a handful of touchdowns.
SD biggest problem is that they are stuck in the old days thinking that you can just hand the ball to LDT on every possession and he will Jim Brown his way into the endzone. Even with being hurt he still came in 6th in attempts in the league and only had 6 carries over 20 yards this season...the highest was 20 with AP. D. Williams from the panthers had almost 20 less attempts but 400 hundred more yards them LDT while being in a 2 back system.
Come on man, if that doesnt tell you that most of LDT stats are forced nothing will. Anyone can look great when you go to them 50 times a game.[/quote]
This past season:
1. Peterson
2. Turner
3. Williams
4. Westbrook
5. Johnson
Sproles is a decent receiver out of the backfield.. if the Chargers use him like the Raiders used Garner back in their SB run.. He could be an every down back because he could get more passes than actual runs..
To put Sproles up above those 5 guys is utterly ridiculous..
Sproiles.
Chis Johnson.
Brandon Jacobs.
Adrian Peterson.
DeAngelo Williams.
Michael Turner.
Willi Parker.
Bryan Westbrook.
Marion Barber
Marshawn Lynch
I think the biggest problem is the fact that most NFL teams run a 2 back system while SD is LDT all day everyday and if he cant get it done give it to sproiles/turner let them get near the endzone but pull them out so LDT can get his TD stats up.
Just think about this.....Brandon Jacobs runs a 3 back system and he still got over thousand yards this season and was 5th in the league in carries that went over 20 yards. Think about D. Williams from Carolina. He splits time and still got over 1000 yards and a handful of touchdowns.
SD biggest problem is that they are stuck in the old days thinking that you can just hand the ball to LDT on every possession and he will Jim Brown his way into the endzone. Even with being hurt he still came in 6th in attempts in the league and only had 6 carries over 20 yards this season...the highest was 20 with AP. D. Williams from the panthers had almost 20 less attempts but 400 hundred more yards them LDT while being in a 2 back system.
Come on man, if that doesnt tell you that most of LDT stats are forced nothing will. Anyone can look great when you go to them 50 times a game.[/quote]
This past season:
1. Peterson
2. Turner
3. Williams
4. Westbrook
5. Johnson
Sproles is a decent receiver out of the backfield.. if the Chargers use him like the Raiders used Garner back in their SB run.. He could be an every down back because he could get more passes than actual runs..
To put Sproles up above those 5 guys is utterly ridiculous..
Soodmeg
CAGiversary!
I never said sproils (I swear I spell his name different every time) was a every down back. I said I would choose him over LDT any day because he far more dangerous.
A guy who can get you 30-40 yards on a kick return or 20-30 on a punt return then come in and has the ability to get that home run play.
OR
LDT an injury prone guy who you need to give 30-40 attempts to before he starts producing. Thanks but I will take Sproiles on this one.
EDIT: And my list wasnt in any actually order DJSteel. I wouldnt put sproiles in top 5 but I would take him before I took LDT. That was the question I was answering...what guys I would take before LDT.
A guy who can get you 30-40 yards on a kick return or 20-30 on a punt return then come in and has the ability to get that home run play.
OR
LDT an injury prone guy who you need to give 30-40 attempts to before he starts producing. Thanks but I will take Sproiles on this one.
EDIT: And my list wasnt in any actually order DJSteel. I wouldnt put sproiles in top 5 but I would take him before I took LDT. That was the question I was answering...what guys I would take before LDT.
I think there is a lot of hype there with Sproles.. He did good in the playoffs.. but it could be a Carlos Beltran effect where the guy over performs in a certain situation and then when he gets the chance he is just an above average player but no superstar.
If you were making a choice for this season of course most would pick most of those guys over LT. But, for I'd say over the past 3-5 years no one has been better. LT along with Westbrook(when both guys are 100%) are IMO the most complete backs in the NFL. The only one that I would say is on LT's level or possibly better IMO is A.P.
I think that LT is like Barry Sanders(IMO the best pure RB in NFL history) in the way how they disappear in the playoffs.
I think that LT is like Barry Sanders(IMO the best pure RB in NFL history) in the way how they disappear in the playoffs.
[quote name='DJSteel']I think there is a lot of hype there with Sproles.. He did good in the playoffs.. but it could be a Carlos Beltran effect where the guy over performs in a certain situation and then when he gets the chance he is just an above average player but no superstar.[/QUOTE]
I've seen alot of Charger games over the years and every time sproles gets the ball he has usually done a solid job filling in. I believe he could be an every down back(at least 15-20 touches), shit he did it at K-State.
I've seen alot of Charger games over the years and every time sproles gets the ball he has usually done a solid job filling in. I believe he could be an every down back(at least 15-20 touches), shit he did it at K-State.
integralsmatic
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well i see most infact all NFL teams running a 2 back system. even Minnesota does it and they have AP.
Sproles is dynamite but im on the fence if he could be an every down back. Sure its easy in college but that doesnt mean anything when it transalates to the NFL. Hell Ron Dayne was an every down back for Wisconsin..but he sucks when it comes to the Pro game. I think Sproles would kill if he had a back like Barber or Jacobs to split time with.
anyway so what do you guys think about the Boys releasing T.O? they are mulling over it...but i doubt it will happen...but than again....
Sproles is dynamite but im on the fence if he could be an every down back. Sure its easy in college but that doesnt mean anything when it transalates to the NFL. Hell Ron Dayne was an every down back for Wisconsin..but he sucks when it comes to the Pro game. I think Sproles would kill if he had a back like Barber or Jacobs to split time with.
anyway so what do you guys think about the Boys releasing T.O? they are mulling over it...but i doubt it will happen...but than again....
pimpinc333
CAGiversary!
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[quote name='integralsmatic']well i see most infact all NFL teams running a 2 back system. even Minnesota does it and they have AP.
Sproles is dynamite but im on the fence if he could be an every down back. Sure its easy in college but that doesnt mean anything when it transalates to the NFL. Hell Ron Dayne was an every down back for Wisconsin..but he sucks when it comes to the Pro game. I think Sproles would kill if he had a back like Barber or Jacobs to split time with.
anyway so what do you guys think about the Boys releasing T.O? they are mulling over it...but i doubt it will happen...but than again....[/QUOTE]
If they release him they take a big hit on their salary cap ( from what I read on ESPN ). I doubt they will release him but he does need to straighten up. I hope the Cowboys can co exist with TO.
Sproles is dynamite but im on the fence if he could be an every down back. Sure its easy in college but that doesnt mean anything when it transalates to the NFL. Hell Ron Dayne was an every down back for Wisconsin..but he sucks when it comes to the Pro game. I think Sproles would kill if he had a back like Barber or Jacobs to split time with.
anyway so what do you guys think about the Boys releasing T.O? they are mulling over it...but i doubt it will happen...but than again....[/QUOTE]
If they release him they take a big hit on their salary cap ( from what I read on ESPN ). I doubt they will release him but he does need to straighten up. I hope the Cowboys can co exist with TO.
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