2009 MLB Discussion Thread

Here is where the rumor about the Yankees being interested in Granderson came from. The Tigers GM said that he would be willing to trade off Granderson and Jackson. People assume that the Yankees are the only team that could afford Granderson so it turns into a rumor.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']Here is where the rumor about the Yankees being interested in Granderson came from. The Tigers GM said that he would be willing to trade off Granderson and Jackson. People assume that the Yankees are the only team that could afford Granderson so it turns into a rumor.[/QUOTE]

It was Joel Sherman of the NY Post who said he would be an ideal fit and that the yankees should take a serious look him. General public sees this a legit rumor and want the yankees to pull the trigger based on his name alone. personally, i would go after jackson instead. He has horrific stuff and would be a great 3 or 4 in the yanks rotation..and he would be cheaper in contract and trade value.
 
[quote name='thingsfallnapart']When does Zach Greinke win the cy young already?[/QUOTE]


EFA


Greinke was by far and away the best pitcher last year in the Majors. He also played on one of the worst teams that offered zero defense and run support. Put his #'s on the Yankees, Red Sox or Angels and he wins 25-30 games.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']EFA


Greinke was by far and away the best pitcher last year in the Majors. He also played on one of the worst teams that offered zero defense and run support. Put his #'s on the Yankees, Red Sox or Angels and he wins 25-30 games.[/QUOTE]

He pitched in the pussy ass central division which gave him just enough extra starts against detroit to have a lower ERA. Felix has the best all-around stats of all the cy young candidates, more wins less loses then grienke, better ERA then Fatbathia who raised the arbitration bar so no pitcher with a free agent run can go anywhere but boston or new york.
 
[quote name='thingsfallnapart']He pitched in the pussy ass central division which gave him just enough extra starts against detroit to have a lower ERA. Felix has the best all-around stats of all the cy young candidates, more wins less loses then grienke, better ERA then Fatbathia who raised the arbitration bar so no pitcher with a free agent run can go anywhere but boston or new york.[/QUOTE]

#-o
 
[quote name='thingsfallnapart']He pitched in the pussy ass central division which gave him just enough extra starts against detroit to have a lower ERA. Felix has the best all-around stats of all the cy young candidates, more wins less loses then grienke, better ERA then Fatbathia who raised the arbitration bar so no pitcher with a free agent run can go anywhere but boston or new york.[/QUOTE]


You are joking right? You cannot judge pitchers on wins and losses. That is a team stat. Greinke played on a horrible team with zero defense behind him while Felix had gold glovers pitching in a pitchers park. You are also saying that Greinke had the benefit of having the Tigers in his division but they were a 1 game playoff team. You do not mention that Felix had the Double A's in his division.

Greinke had a better era, more strikeouts, less walks, better whip, more complete games, more shutouts, less homeruns given up, etc etc etc etc.

Lastly, what do the World Champs have to do with this between Greinke and Felix? Why does CC have to be thrown in? What does the Yankees payroll have to do with the Cy Young Winner? Is it the Yankees fault that the Mariners choke every year in the playoffs and in September? Is it the Yankees fault that the Multi Trillionaire owners in Nintendo do not invest money into the team?

Based on your argument, CC should be the Cy Young because he put up great numbers in the AL bEAST. Guy had to face Red Sox, Blue Jays, Rays and Orioles all of the time. Each one of their offenses were stacked.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']You are joking right? You cannot judge pitchers on wins and losses. That is a team stat. Greinke played on a horrible team with zero defense behind him while Felix had gold glovers pitching in a pitchers park. You are also saying that Greinke had the benefit of having the Tigers in his division but they were a 1 game playoff team. You do not mention that Felix had the Double A's in his division.

Greinke had a better era, more strikeouts, less walks, better whip, more complete games, more shutouts, less homeruns given up, etc etc etc etc.

Lastly, what do the World Champs have to do with this between Greinke and Felix? Why does CC have to be thrown in? What does the Yankees payroll have to do with the Cy Young Winner? Is it the Yankees fault that the Mariners choke every year in the playoffs and in September? Is it the Yankees fault that the Multi Trillionaire owners in Nintendo do not invest money into the team?

Based on your argument, CC should be the Cy Young because he put up great numbers in the AL bEAST. Guy had to face Red Sox, Blue Jays, Rays and Orioles all of the time. Each one of their offenses were stacked.[/QUOTE]

agreed! Greinke has been a monster all season long..and to have absolutely no support and still pitch that well is beyond me. I cant wait till he becomes a free agent. If he keeps this up, 150+ million for sure.

what division you pitch has nothing bearing on the Cy Young whatsoever. Johan Santana won the Cy Young in the Central...so the division argument is pretty shot there.
 
Look at Greinke's numbers against playoff teams and playoff contenders. Wow. He pitched some gens against the Angels and Sox. He had better numbers on a crappy team, and he pitches great against good teams. That's all I need to know.
 
Although it's true that Greinke pitched against against some garbage teams in a bad division, you can't make that your deciding factor because it's not his fault. You play the schedule you are given.

It's much more impressive that he got the numbers he did being on that team.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']You are joking right? You cannot judge pitchers on wins and losses. That is a team stat. Greinke played on a horrible team with zero defense behind him while Felix had gold glovers pitching in a pitchers park. You are also saying that Greinke had the benefit of having the Tigers in his division but they were a 1 game playoff team. You do not mention that Felix had the Double A's in his division.

Greinke had a better era, more strikeouts, less walks, better whip, more complete games, more shutouts, less homeruns given up, etc etc etc etc.

Lastly, what do the World Champs have to do with this between Greinke and Felix? Why does CC have to be thrown in? What does the Yankees payroll have to do with the Cy Young Winner? Is it the Yankees fault that the Mariners choke every year in the playoffs and in September? Is it the Yankees fault that the Multi Trillionaire owners in Nintendo do not invest money into the team?

Based on your argument, CC should be the Cy Young because he put up great numbers in the AL bEAST. Guy had to face Red Sox, Blue Jays, Rays and Orioles all of the time. Each one of their offenses were stacked.[/QUOTE]

My argument is Felix has the best all around numbers factoring in k's, wins and losses, and ERA.
 
[quote name='thingsfallnapart']My argument is Felix has the best all around numbers factoring in k's, wins and losses, and ERA.[/QUOTE]


Wins and Losses are a team stat. Johan Santanta can go out pitch 8 innings of shutout ball and the Mets have a 3-0 lead going into the top of the 9th. K Rod comes into the game and gives up 3 runs in the 9th. David Wright hits a walkoff homerun to win the game in the bottom of the 9th. Who gets the Win? Not Johan because K Rod was the pitcher of record.

Lets look at losses now. Greinke pitches 8 innings, has 10 k's, 2 walks, 5 hits and gives up 2 runs, 1 earned. The Royals lose 2-1. Hernandez pitches and has 8 k's, 4 walks, 7 hits, 3 runs, 2 earned and the Mariners win 5-3. What pitcher had the better individual performance?

Pitcher A Pitcher B

ERA 2.16 / 2.49
K's 242 / 217
Walks 51 / 71
Homeruns 11 / 15
K/BB 4.75 / 3.06
AVG .230 / .227
OBP .276 / .287
SLG .336 / .318
OPS .609 / .603
Complete Games 6/ 2
Shoutouts 3 / 1

Pitcher A is Greinke. Pitcher B is Hernandez who pitched half his starts in an extreme pitchers park with Gold Glove Defense all behind him. Your argument is also flawed because you have to throw in the Yankees and make insults towards Sabathia. You still haven't answered why it's the Yankees fault that the Trillionaire owner of the Mariners (Nintendo) cannot afford players.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']Wins and Losses are a team stat. Johan Santanta can go out pitch 8 innings of shutout ball and the Mets have a 3-0 lead going into the top of the 9th. K Rod comes into the game and gives up 3 runs in the 9th. David Wright hits a walkoff homerun to win the game in the bottom of the 9th. Who gets the Win? Not Johan because K Rod was the pitcher of record.

Lets look at losses now. Greinke pitches 8 innings, has 10 k's, 2 walks, 5 hits and gives up 2 runs, 1 earned. The Royals lose 2-1. Hernandez pitches and has 8 k's, 4 walks, 7 hits, 3 runs, 2 earned and the Mariners win 5-3. What pitcher had the better individual performance?

Pitcher A Pitcher B

ERA 2.16 / 2.49
K's 242 / 217
Walks 51 / 71
Homeruns 11 / 15
K/BB 4.75 / 3.06
AVG .230 / .227
OBP .276 / .287
SLG .336 / .318
OPS .609 / .603
Complete Games 6/ 2
Shoutouts 3 / 1

Pitcher A is Greinke. Pitcher B is Hernandez who pitched half his starts in an extreme pitchers park with Gold Glove Defense all behind him. Your argument is also flawed because you have to throw in the Yankees and make insults towards Sabathia. You still haven't answered why it's the Yankees fault that the Trillionaire owner of the Mariners (Nintendo) cannot afford players.[/QUOTE]

:applause::applause::applause:

While I think you're an ass for your pure hatred for the Red Sox, you're not ignorant, so I'll deal with it for your baseball knowledge.

Switch Greinke with any of the other teams and he's the number 1 pitcher in the game.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']Wins and Losses are a team stat. Johan Santanta can go out pitch 8 innings of shutout ball and the Mets have a 3-0 lead going into the top of the 9th. K Rod comes into the game and gives up 3 runs in the 9th. David Wright hits a walkoff homerun to win the game in the bottom of the 9th. Who gets the Win? Not Johan because K Rod was the pitcher of record.

Lets look at losses now. Greinke pitches 8 innings, has 10 k's, 2 walks, 5 hits and gives up 2 runs, 1 earned. The Royals lose 2-1. Hernandez pitches and has 8 k's, 4 walks, 7 hits, 3 runs, 2 earned and the Mariners win 5-3. What pitcher had the better individual performance?

Pitcher A Pitcher B

ERA 2.16 / 2.49
K's 242 / 217
Walks 51 / 71
Homeruns 11 / 15
K/BB 4.75 / 3.06
AVG .230 / .227
OBP .276 / .287
SLG .336 / .318
OPS .609 / .603
Complete Games 6/ 2
Shoutouts 3 / 1

Pitcher A is Greinke. Pitcher B is Hernandez who pitched half his starts in an extreme pitchers park with Gold Glove Defense all behind him. Your argument is also flawed because you have to throw in the Yankees and make insults towards Sabathia. You still haven't answered why it's the Yankees fault that the Trillionaire owner of the Mariners (Nintendo) cannot afford players.[/QUOTE]

Ok first off when did I insult the yankees? I respect they have turned baseball into 90% minor league farm system to feed them.

Second off, your a fool if you don't think wins matter. Pitchers throw more strikes with larger leads and are more prone to giving up more runs with the defenses playing back. Third off I dislike Sabathia because he simply doesn't deserve a cy young mention in the Grienke Hernandez debate, and he makes WAY to much money which makes teams like the Mariners and Royals have zero to nil chance to hold on to aces like Hernandez and Grienke.
 
[quote name='thingsfallnapart']Ok first off when did I insult the yankees? I respect they have turned baseball into 90% minor league farm system to feed them.

Second off, your a fool if you don't think wins matter. Pitchers throw more strikes with larger leads and are more prone to giving up more runs with the defenses playing back. Third off I dislike Sabathia because he simply doesn't deserve a cy young mention in the Grienke Hernandez debate, and he makes WAY to much money which makes teams like the Mariners and Royals have zero to nil chance to hold on to aces like Hernandez and Grienke.[/QUOTE]

This has got to be the dumbest post I've ever read. When did you start following baseball? This year? No sports writer in the country would insist that wins matter when making consideration for the Cy Young. Say whatever you want about pitchers throwing more strikes when they have a lead, but what about pitching for a team that never gives you enough run support to have a lead in the first place?

This is what you seem to not be able to grasp. Greinke's MO all season basically was to "limit the damage". Dude pitched with essentially the smallest margin of error in the entire league, and he STILL put up incredible numbers. If you can't wrap your head around this principle, just give it up and go follow golf or something.

As for your blatant dislike for the Yankees, this is all I have for you: wahhhhh!!! :cry:
 
Some writers do fall into the trap of wins. We've seen it in the past. Colon's 2005 Cy Young, for example, was an absolute joke. Both Mo and Santana had better pitching seasons. But it helped that Colon had 21 wins. That 20+ win total will always help get a lot of votes.

At the end of the day, Greinke was the better pitcher this year. There's really no other way to look at it.
 
[quote name='bigdaddybruce44']Some writers do fall into the trap of wins. We've seen it in the past. Colon's 2005 Cy Young, for example, was an absolute joke. Both Mo and Santana had better pitching seasons. But it helped that Colon had 21 wins. That 20+ win total will always help get a lot of votes.

At the end of the day, Greinke was the better pitcher this year. There's really no other way to look at it.[/QUOTE]


But but but but Hernandez had a couple of less losses and a couple of more wins. But but but Hernandez had a better era than Fatbathia.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']But but but but Hernandez had a couple of less losses and a couple of more wins. But but but Hernandez had a better era than Fatbathia.[/QUOTE]

Man you guys are tough baseball fans. Totally oblivious to how the game is ruined by overvalued contracts. Ya Grienke has a great year, so did Hernandez. The last time I watched games here on FSN, I don't recall the Mariners ever having such a great offense like I seem to get the idea from some posts. On some nights in the middle of the season Jose Lopez was their only major league quality hitter...
 
[quote name='thingsfallnapart']Ok first off when did I insult the yankees? I respect they have turned baseball into 90% minor league farm system to feed them.

Second off, your a fool if you don't think wins matter. Pitchers throw more strikes with larger leads and are more prone to giving up more runs with the defenses playing back. Third off I dislike Sabathia because he simply doesn't deserve a cy young mention in the Grienke Hernandez debate, and he makes WAY to much money which makes teams like the Mariners and Royals have zero to nil chance to hold on to aces like Hernandez and Grienke.[/QUOTE]


You made fun of CC and you act like the Yankees ruined all of baseball. Those two had nothing to do with Greinke and Hernandez performace for the past season. CC doesn't deserve a Cy Young mention? He was the 3rd best starter in the American League and had all of the pressure in the world on him while having the toughest schedule out of anybody. The guy faced the Blue Jays, Red Sox and Rays game in and game out. If he has 1 bad performance it leads him having to answer to 20 million people.

CC's contract was bad for baseball? He just pretty much got the same deal that the Mets gave to Johan Santana the year before and he didn't even reach free agency. You seriously must have started watching baseball this past summer. CC won the Cy Young in 2007 and was a runner up last year after he flat out dominated the NL and put the Brewers on his back and carried them into the playoffs. The guy in 2008 risked injury and his future in baseball to get the Brewers into the playoffs for the first time in 25 years. Go look at how he did this post season and tell me again he doesn't deserve every penny.

Do you want to hear the worst contracts that have been given out to pitchers? Darren Dreifort getting 5 years 55 million after doing nothing. Kevin Brown getting 100 million plus. Mike Hampton getting 8 years 120 million, Denny Neagle getting 5 years 50 million. Barry Zito just received 7 years 120. And you are going to sit here and Cry that the Yankees gave CC a big similiar contract after everybody else?


The Royals and the Mariners cant afford to give out big contracts? The Royals gave Jose Guillen a ton of money and Gil Meche a complete scrub 5 years 55 million. The Mariners gave Beltre 5 years 64 Million, Richie Sexton 4 years 50 million. Do you want to know who owns the Royals and the Mariners? Well Nintendo owns the Mariners and David Glass the former president of Walmart owns the Royals. I am willing to bet my life that each owner could afford to give out a big contract and not lose a penny on it.

The Yankees turn 90 percent of baseball into their personal farm team? I hate to tell you but every team has players who started somewhere else. I believe the Yankees had the 2nd highest home grown players on their team for 2009. Jeter, Posada, Pettitte, Rivera, Cano, Melky, Cervelli, Pena, Gardner, Hughes, Joba, Coke, Robertson and Wang all say hello.

You still haven't answered why Hernandez should win the Cy Young outside of a team stat like win/loss. If you take their game averages, Greinke had more K's per game, less walks, less hits, less runs while pitching longer with zero margin for error.
 
[quote name='thingsfallnapart']Man you guys are tough baseball fans. Totally oblivious to how the game is ruined by overvalued contracts. Ya Grienke has a great year, so did Hernandez. The last time I watched games here on FSN, I don't recall the Mariners ever having such a great offense like I seem to get the idea from some posts. On some nights in the middle of the season Jose Lopez was their only major league quality hitter...[/QUOTE]

The Worst contract the Yankees gave out was to Carl Pavano and that was a 4 year, 40 million dollar deal. That was only a bad contract because he was injured the whole time. He was also offered more by other teams and had a ton of interest. Good thing you forgot all of the bad contracts given out by the rest of the league.

I forgot that the Mariners have a hall of famer in Ichiro at the top of their
lineup who just hit .350 for the seaon. Dont the Mariners have Beltre in their lineup as well? Yup only the Yankees have signed players from other teams to bad contracts. Mariners have never done such a thing.

You still haven't mentioned that Hernandez has Gold Glove talent all behind him when Greinke has Triple A defense behind him. Defense plays a huge part into pitchers stats.


Couple of last things. How are the Yankees bad for baseball? Last time I checked more fans are attending the games the last several years than ever before. Last time I checked each team is making hand over fist in money. Last time I checked Championships get spread around alot more than any other sport. Who is going to win the NBA Finals in 2010? The correct answer is Celtics, Lakers or Cavs. Who is going to win Superbowl 44? The correct answer is Manning, Brady, Brees or Big Ben.
 
[quote name='thingsfallnapart']Man you guys are tough baseball fans. Totally oblivious to how the game is ruined by overvalued contracts. Ya Grienke has a great year, so did Hernandez. The last time I watched games here on FSN, I don't recall the Mariners ever having such a great offense like I seem to get the idea from some posts. On some nights in the middle of the season Jose Lopez was their only major league quality hitter...[/QUOTE]

I don't know if anyone suggested they had a great offense. I didn't read all of the posts. But the bottom line is, the Mariners were a far better team. The Royals were pretty awful, especially after the first month of the season.
 
[quote name='craven_fiend']I wonder who didn't vote Greinke as #1 or #2 in the CY Young? Must be biased against the Royals.[/QUOTE]


2 voted for Hernandez which I can live with. 1 voted for Verlander and that writer was from Michigan. I wish there was a President/Head of the voting that had the power to remove the power from people who do not take it seriously enough.

My hatred for the voting process goes back to 2006 when the "idiot" writer from Chicago put Jeter 6th in the voting. The same idiot writer put ARod 5th in 2003 and left off Carlos Delgado who finished second. They finished 1st and 2nd in voting.
 
Sorry I didn't respond earlier. I missed your post.

[quote name='n8rockerasu']I hear where you're coming from, but I'm just saying...if Jeter ever deserved to win a Gold Glove, this would be the year. You can't hold his other 3 GG's against him when considering his defensive performance this year. Talking about his "numbers", he did lead the AL in fielding percentage and least errors for his position. Even his UZR this year wasn't THAT bad. He was 5th in the AL (or 4th if you're looking at UZR/150)[/quote]
He's certainly not a bad defender. I just think we need to move past rudimentary stats like errors and fielding percentage and try to get a better picture of the totality of defense. I do agree that by errors and fielding percentage, he's an obvious choice.
The ONLY real contender I see is Cesar Izturis, and he started 40 games less than Jeter. Sure, his UZR looks good, but let him play a full season and then we'll see where he stands (considering he made the same amount of errors in 40 fewer games...that's a quarter of the season). And look at Elvis Andrus. He's got a good UZR and 22 freaking errors. You want to give the GG to a guy with 22 errors?
Click to expand...
Andrus is a really interesting look at the clash of old vs. new numbers. That error number is ugly for sure. 16 more than Jeter. But what if he makes 50 more outs at the position over the course of a season? Two EXTRA games worth of outs is extremely valuable.

If I had a vote, I probably would have gone Izturis 1 and Jeter 2. I'm really not knocking Jeter though. I didn't mean to give that impression. I just follow the numbers.
I've had no problem with people complaining about Jeter's decline in defensive ability the past few years, but I'm sorry if I feel like he actually worked hard this year and elevated his game. Give credit where credit is due.
Click to expand...
I've never watched the Yanks over a season. I only know the stats. I didn't know others were complaining about a decline. He's certainly above average for his age, I'll give him that. His "decline" trending arc should be significantly stronger downward than it is. The trend seems to be bucked only when guys genuinely take defense seriously, so I'll give him that too. I'd take Jeter over my starting SS any day of the week.

Congrats to Grienke. That was one helluva season. I love Verlander but that's just crazy to put him above Felix and Zach.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']2 voted for Hernandez which I can live with. 1 voted for Verlander and that writer was from Michigan. I wish there was a President/Head of the voting that had the power to remove the power from people who do not take it seriously enough.

My hatred for the voting process goes back to 2006 when the "idiot" writer from Chicago put Jeter 6th in the voting. The same idiot writer put ARod 5th in 2003 and left off Carlos Delgado who finished second. They finished 1st and 2nd in voting.[/QUOTE]
I felt the same way, when George King of the New York Post and LaVelle Neal of the Minneapolis Star Tribune cost Pedro the 99 AL MVP by leaving him off the ballot, because "pitchers shouldn't be eligible". Even though King had voted for Rick Helling and David Wells in 98, and Mariano Rivera since.

A similar thing happened to Matsui when he was up for Rookie of the Year, and to David Ortiz for the 05 MVP, in both cases two writers left them completely off the ballot, and the vote was close enough that it cost them the award. The rules state that you are to not vote at all if you think a player shouldn't be eligible.

This has been going on forever. Ted Williams won the TRIPLE CROWN in 1947 and still lost the AL MVP by a single point to Joe DiMaggio after one writer left him off the ballot.
 
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[quote name='vrs1650']Jim Tracey and Mike Scioscia named managers of the year. Discuss.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4667499[/QUOTE]

Don Wakamatsu got 19 votes? are they freaking serious???? the team was 35-20 in one run games! That is a testament to great management and decision making, as well as turning around a team with massive injuries, disappointing starters (bedard and silva cough) and Overpayed underproductive offensive talent (Beltre, Johjima)?
 
It's Seattle dude. A smallish market team in a division that no one pays attention to. Short of setting a record for hits in a season or something of that magnitude, no one cares.

Just sayin. I used to live there.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']I felt the same way, when George King of the New York Post and LaVelle Neal of the Minneapolis Star Tribune cost Pedro the 99 AL MVP by leaving him off the ballot, because "pitchers shouldn't be eligible". Even though King had voted for Rick Helling and David Wells in 98, and Mariano Rivera since.

A similar thing happened to Matsui when he was up for Rookie of the Year, and to David Ortiz for the 05 MVP, in both cases two writers left them completely off the ballot, and the vote was close enough that it cost them the award. The rules state that you are to not vote at all if you think a player shouldn't be eligible.

This has been going on forever. Ted Williams won the TRIPLE CROWN in 1947 and still lost the AL MVP by a single point to Joe DiMaggio after one writer left him off the ballot.[/QUOTE]

I still laugh about Angel Berroa winning the ROTY in 2003. Some voters didn't vote for Matsui because he played Pro Ball in Japan. Sasaki won the AL Roty as a 32 year old in 2000. Ichiro won the Roty in 2001 when he was 27.
 
[quote name='speedracer']It's Seattle dude. A smallish market team in a division that no one pays attention to. Short of setting a record for hits in a season or something of that magnitude, no one cares.

Just sayin. I used to live there.[/QUOTE]

and whats the deal with Rod Gardenhire over there...I don't think Minnesota is so big...just the fact that he coached a team threw a division where its upper tier collapsed totally.
 
[quote name='thingsfallnapart']and whats the deal with Rod Gardenhire over there...I don't think Minnesota is so big...just the fact that he coached a team threw a division where its upper tier collapsed totally.[/QUOTE]

I don't know what Ron Gardenhire has to do with anything, but, there is that aspect of managing a successful team and making the playoffs. Whose expectations did Seattle really exceed this year? They were an average team that had a very average season.

I'm not really crazy about Mike Scioscia winning, but you could at least make an argument that the Angels lost a lot of players this year (free agency, injury, etc.) and STILL were one of the best teams in baseball. Most people didn't expect them to be as good this year, and they ended up being better. In the NL, the Rockies got off to a horrible start and nobody expected them to go anywhere. Jim Tracy really turned that team around. His award was well deserved.

No offense, dude, but you're one of the biggest homers I've ever seen. You generally discredit anyone not in a Seattle uniform, but react with complete and utter shock when anyone on your barely over .500 team doesn't win an award. Get some perspective.
 
[quote name='thingsfallnapart']and whats the deal with Rod Gardenhire over there...I don't think Minnesota is so big...just the fact that he coached a team threw a division where its upper tier collapsed totally.[/QUOTE]

lol drinking that Al Central Haterade arent we? ;). The Twins are counted out every year to win the central but they continue to defy the odds and win it. Let's face it, they are young...but subpar at the moment. When you lose your power hitting MVP first basemen, your best pitcher, and than deal with scattered injuries on the field? But somehow you win the central....I think he deserves a shot every year. If minnesota actually brought in some bigger FAs to fill holes, i think they can contend for a world series.

In other news, how bad would it be for opponents in a 3 game series to potentially go against, Sabathia,Halladay, and Burnett? or Halladay,Beckett,Lester. I cant believe two teams inside their own division are leading canidates for the services of Roy Halladay. Thats just crazy that the new Blue Jays GM is considering dealing halladay inside..but hey, i guess you do anything to try to rebuild properly........
 
[quote name='n8rockerasu']I'm not really crazy about Mike Scioscia winning, but you could at least make an argument that the Angels lost a lot of players this year (free agency, injury, etc.) and STILL were one of the best teams in baseball. Most people didn't expect them to be as good this year, and they ended up being better. In the NL, the Rockies got off to a horrible start and nobody expected them to go anywhere. Jim Tracy really turned that team around. His award was well deserved.[/QUOTE]

Scioscia deserved it. He held the team together early in the season after Nick Adenhart's tragic death. It would've been a bit acceptable and expected for the Angels to fall apart after that. But they managed to keep it all together and win the division. It's tragic, but I think they may have become complacent if something like that didn't spark them.
 
[quote name='wildcpac']Lincecum wins his 2nd Cy Young.[/QUOTE]

And Wainwright received the most 1st place votes by 1. I think Carpenter and Wainwright both having awesome years hurt them in the voting. If only one was studly, I think they take it over Timmy.
 
[quote name='craven_fiend']And Wainwright received the most 1st place votes by 1. I think Carpenter and Wainwright both having awesome years hurt them in the voting. If only one was studly, I think they take it over Timmy.[/QUOTE]

Exactly

I'm still glad Lincecum won though.
 
Tim LinCYcum deserved it.

I remember this summer like in July.....Timmy pitched a shutout vs the Cards while Carpenter fuckin' gave up 6 runs to the Giants....

In others news Cy Young won his 6th Tim Lincecum award.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']Tim LinCYcum deserved it.

I remember this summer like in July.....Timmy pitched a shutout vs the Cards while Carpenter fuckin' gave up 6 runs to the Giants....

In others news Cy Young won his 6th Tim Lincecum award.[/QUOTE]

Too bad for the Giants that it is an individual award, that's all they will be getting for a while ;)

A little too early to even joke about Cy Young. I mean he could blow out his elbow and never be the same.
 
[quote name='craven_fiend']Too bad for the Giants that it is an individual award, that's all they will be getting for a while ;)[/QUOTE]
The Giants can put in the case meant for World Series trophies that's been sitting empty since the day they became an organization. ;)
 
[quote name='speedracer']The Giants can put in the case meant for World Series trophies that's been sitting empty since the day they became an organization. ;)[/QUOTE]

Not really since they became an organization, they won one in New York.

But since they moved to San Francisco, you're correct.
 
No surprise in the NL either. Too bad Pujols isn't picking up his 5th MVP ("only" his 3rd) or we'd already be having serious debates about whether he's the greatest player ever. Which we should be. Because he might be.

Thanks Barry Bonds.

edit: Pablo Sandoval ahead of Chase Utley? Derrek Lee 12 places ahead of Mark Reynolds? WTF?
 
[quote name='speedracer']No surprise in the NL either. Too bad Pujols isn't picking up his 5th MVP ("only" his 3rd) or we'd already be having serious debates about whether he's the greatest player ever. Which we should be. Because he might be.

Thanks Barry Bonds.

edit: Pablo Sandoval ahead of Chase Utley? Derrek Lee 12 places ahead of Mark Reynolds? WTF?[/QUOTE]

Pujols had always been the odds on favorite. Every other person I heard for the AL mentioned Jeter. It all came down to a matter of how the team performed without said individual. Take Jeter from the Yankees, you've still got a solid team. Take Mauer from the Twins and you saw how they started. Though if the Twins don't make the playoff run once Morneau went down, I think the race would've been a lot closer than it was.\\

Bring on the Winter Meetings.
 
[quote name='speedracer']No surprise in the NL either. Too bad Pujols isn't picking up his 5th MVP ("only" his 3rd) or we'd already be having serious debates about whether he's the greatest player ever. Which we should be. Because he might be.

Thanks Barry Bonds.

edit: Pablo Sandoval ahead of Chase Utley? Derrek Lee 12 places ahead of Mark Reynolds? WTF?[/QUOTE]

Barry Bonds says "No problem, still rollin' in millions fucker".

And your actually wondering whether Sandoval ahead of Utley was a bad move?

Sandoval hit 20+ homers, was 2nd in Batting Average.....and oh yeah, was the only decent hitter in the Giants line-up.

Sandoval would easily put up 35 homers/150 RBI's with Howard/Rollings/Werth/Victorino.
 
[quote name='ph33r m3']Barry Bonds says "No problem, still rollin' in millions fucker".[/QUOTE]

Good for him. He also lost any and all respect he had in the baseball community and will go down as the biggest blight in the most tainted era in the game.
 
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