2009 Stimulus package, now with more pork. *updated! obama signs. (sad face)*

One of those things that makes you go: ...uh oh...
[quote name='thrustbucket']Yay.

Something like 9 states now have declared some type of sovereignty. Presumably so they are set up to essentially "walk away" from the 20 trillion in debt the Fed has gotten itself into, in a worse case scenario.

If Newsweek is being accurate, it just raises the probability of split offs from the Union from the realm of "crack-pot theories" to possibilities.[/quote]
 
[quote name='KingBroly']
And making everything digitized isn't going to speed up anything. You're still going to have to double check everything like you do now. And then comes up the questions of identification, privacy of your records, etc. But you have to deal with the Feds, too. Basically adds a Post Office type of situation there. Nothing going on behind the scenes, and nothing you can do to make it go any faster.[/QUOTE]

As I said before electronic records and modernization of medical offices are greatthings . My Dr. has had them for years. He has a laptop with all my history in his office right at his finger tips every time I'm in there, no digging for files etc. That's proved useful for some recurring problems I've had.

I can request referals and refills on their website, make appointments on there etc. So technological advances are a good thing for medicine.

I don't know that it makes things faster, but it is more efficient, easier to see drug allergies, past problems etc. with digitized records.

But I don't see how it will stimulate the economy. It's something medical offices should be doing, but not related to the economy etc.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Still haven't read it, but looks like at least the main part of the cover story is on their website.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/183663[/QUOTE]


just read it, its basically a summary of the last 6 months, whats happened and where were headed places the blame on both republicans and democrats, but this this part caught my eye, and then they both rolled.

Now comes the reckoning. The answer may indeed be more government. In the short run, since neither consumers nor business is likely to do it, the government will have to stimulate the economy. And in the long run, an aging population and global warming and higher energy costs will demand more government taxing and spending.
Click to expand...

he throws it in there so casually, evidently its as big a concern as entitlement programs are for our budget.
 
It is in the sense that we're going to see global warming driving carbon cap and trade systems, furel efficiency reforms, energy reforms, alternative fuel development etc.

Maybe that's what he meant. Regardless of whether we should be so concerned about global warming, the world is and it will be a major issue governments are trying to deal with as we go forward. And it will play a major role in how governments around the world are taxing and spending.
 
[quote name='BillyBob29']Obviously.

That is true of every economic crisis. There are always those that are well positioned going into the free fall that eventually profit tremendously from the eventual upturn. Those people aren't the ones suffering and frankly they aren't the backbone of the economy.

The problem with this recession is that it is much more widespread in terms of who it directly affects than any recession or downturn since the Great Depression. This recession is killing the backbone of our economy and it is getting worse everyday.[/QUOTE]


Well that's the thing of it all. I would go so far as to say that I belong to that group known as the "backbone". I'm by no means wealthy, but I've watched my money carefully for many years (can't help it, I'm an accountant) and the way things are trending right now I'm going to come out ok as long as I have job security. As long as a person keeps cool during this time and doesn't binge shop you're going to be ok.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']It is in the sense that we're going to see global warming driving carbon cap and trade systems, furel efficiency reforms, energy reforms, alternative fuel development etc.

Maybe that's what he meant. Regardless of whether we should be so concerned about global warming, the world is and it will be a major issue governments are trying to deal with as we go forward. And it will play a major role in how governments around the world are taxing and spending.[/QUOTE]

dont get me wrong, global warming (whether its real or not, lets not get into that) is going to cost the country a lot of money down the line. i just wouldnt throw it in as a critical econmic player at this time, especially not compared to something like entitlement programs. itll cost money, billions for sure, but i just rolled my eyes at the way the author threw it in there, all of a sudden & out of nowhere.
 
My grandpa came up with a good idea, for the 3-5 trillion that is now being talked about for "bailouts" just give everyone $100,000 and then they can put it towards a car or a house. Would help a lot. :)
 
[quote name='KingBroly']I guess Arizona would be an okay place to go. Why isn't Texas on this list? And why is Michigan on it? They've needed money for years.
[/QUOTE]
I have heard numerous times (usually from Texans) that when Texas joined the union, begrudgingly, they made sure there was a huge clause saying they could succeed at any time for any reason. So it's already there.

[quote name='bigdaddy']My grandpa came up with a good idea, for the 3-5 trillion that is now being talked about for "bailouts" just give everyone $100,000 and then they can put it towards a car or a house. Would help a lot. :)[/QUOTE]

I've said that a few times. An article I read the other day that I now can't find claimed that this 10 trillion number being talked about would pay off 90% of Americans mortgages.

It's far more important that we keep people in debt and keep the mechanisms of lending healthy though.... :roll:
 
I know if I got a 100,000, it's going to a house and then I would work as hard as I could to pay it off ASAP, save on the interest cost.

But I don't think everyone would be as responsible. I could see a lot of people driving Ferrari's to pick up their food stamps.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Still haven't read it, but looks like at least the main part of the cover story is on their website.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/183663[/QUOTE]

Read that and the rest of the related articles and columns. Good read. Here are the other pieces that go along with the above essay.

Another article that goes along directly with the above one:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/183664

Column arguing our best days aren't necessarily behind us:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/183667

Column from Samuelson (pretty conservative guy from what I've read) arguing that we shouldn't turn the bailouts into a morality play over whether Wall Street and bankers deserve to be rescued:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/183717

Column on the difficulties in calculating unemployment rates:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/183558

Column by Fareed Zakaria (probably my favorite of the Newsweek writers) on how and why Canada isn't being hit as hard by the economic crisis:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/183670

Article about US attitudes toward the rich:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/183718

Column defending bankers:
http://www.newsweek.com/id/183680


And for more current news, here's the Washington Post article on Geithner's bank bailout plan and the Dow falling 382 points today.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/10/AR2009021001228.html?hpid=topnews
 
woweee....So today the treasury secretary says he will need to spend at LEAST $1.5 trillion before this is over. Combine that with the $1 trillion congress is spending on stimulus and the $3 trillion the federal reserve printed last month..

Did you know if you were born in the year 0 (when Jesus was born) and spent $1,000,000.00 every day from then until today..(thats one million dollars per day for 2,009 years), you STILL would not have spent $1 trillion? (only around $730 billion).

Now try to imagine spending 4X that amount in 2 months..
That's the amount of money we're talking about here.

2uhx090.jpg
 
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I... don't think there actually was a year zero. I think it just went 4-3-2-1-1-2-3-4-etc.

...

What? I'm reading the articles dmaul linked, okay? Don't have time for an analysis.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']kind of like when you said this bill is the equivalent to 1 to 2 weeks in Iraq.[/QUOTE]

I was referring to any particular program being complained about.
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']woweee....So today the treasury secretary says he will need to spend at LEAST $1.5 trillion before this is over. Combine that with the $1 trillion congress is spending on stimulus and the $3 trillion the federal reserve printed last month..

Did you know if you were born in the year 0 (when Jesus was born) and spent $1,000,000.00 every day from then until today..(thats one million dollars per day for 2,009 years), you STILL would not have spent $1 trillion? (only around $730 billion).

Now try to imagine spending 4X that amount in 2 months..
That's the amount of money we're talking about here.[/QUOTE]

I was waiting for someone to break out the Jesus unit of measurement.

It might be better to consider it in terms of the size of the entire US economy which is worth about a Mega-Buddha.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I have heard numerous times (usually from Texans) that when Texas joined the union, begrudgingly, they made sure there was a huge clause saying they could succeed at any time for any reason. So it's already there.[/quote]

That's um...that's definitely a new one on me. You'd think that link would've pointed that out if it were already in place. Maybe I missed it.

So...are we going to demand the hanging of our public officials when they pass this garbage bill (which they will, and oh yes, it's garbage) and the market drops another 500+ points? Every time there's been Government action (or inaction as it originally was) the market has tanked. I see nothing to sway my confidence in that regard.
 
[quote name='Msut77']I was waiting for someone to break out the Jesus unit of measurement.

It might be better to consider it in terms of the size of the entire US economy which is worth about a Mega-Buddha.[/QUOTE]

Sen. Mitch McConnell broke it out last week. Capitalizt just stole it.

I just saw it in the "perspective section of the current newsweek" and a google showed the quote was all over the news. :D

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/02/04/trillion.dollars/index.html
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']

2uhx090.jpg
[/quote]

I love how Jones looks in that.

I'm not big into politics, but I'm wondering, is there ever gooing to be a happy ending to this story or will congress just spend more and more money regardless? I wonder if Obama has considered why this won't work. I, and I hope I'm wrong about this, see this mostly as congress using the economy as an excuse to extort us for money to support their causes. A lot of the things on that list probably won't effect the economy at all and I wish they'd just let everything die on its own.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']
So...are we going to demand the hanging of our public officials when they pass this garbage bill (which they will, and oh yes, it's garbage) and the market drops another 500+ points? Every time there's been Government action (or inaction as it originally was) the market has tanked. I see nothing to sway my confidence in that regard.[/QUOTE]

There will be no such uprising until people are starving to death.
Sadly.

[quote name='Friend of Sonic']I know if I got a 100,000, it's going to a house and then I would work as hard as I could to pay it off ASAP, save on the interest cost.

But I don't think everyone would be as responsible. I could see a lot of people driving Ferrari's to pick up their food stamps.[/QUOTE]

Nah it would be more fair to just give everyone a rebate that can only be used for certain items like first houses and debt.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']So...are we going to demand the hanging of our public officials when they pass this garbage bill (which they will, and oh yes, it's garbage) and the market drops another 500+ points? Every time there's been Government action (or inaction as it originally was) the market has tanked. I see nothing to sway my confidence in that regard.[/QUOTE]

Oh, rest assured it will tank further if the crap that is being discussed is passed in final form. And unemployment will increase and we'll go deeper into recession. It's nice that Congress is spending the tax money from decades into the future on bullshit that will make the problem worse. Maybe the silver lining is that after all this doesn't work in the least, maybe we'll finally throw the two bastard parties out.
 
[quote name='KingBroly']http://www.nypost.com/seven/02112009/news/politics/congress_hopping_carts_154496.htm

$300 million for environmentally sound Golf Carts. How does this create jobs again?[/quote]

Well, you have to build the Golf Carts aka NEVs. That requires somebody to fill a position or build a robot to fill the position.

In downtown areas and school zones with severe speed limitations, these vehicles can replace regular cars.

There is nothing really wrong with these vehicles unless you need something that can do 70mph or drive 300+ miles.

If my next job is on the same side of the Ohio River as I live, I would have no problems using one of these as a daily car.
 
Watching Squawk Box again ...

They accidentally had somebody on that mentioned the Weimar Republic. I can't believe they let somebody on that said there was a downside to massive government spending.

Then, they had on Eric Cantor and the Republican plan to revitalize the economy by giving tax cuts to small businesses.

The talking heads were so polite to not call him out on the first bailout or the previous six years of massive government spending in Iraq or Afghanistan.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I have heard numerous times (usually from Texans) that when Texas joined the union, begrudgingly, they made sure there was a huge clause saying they could succeed at any time for any reason. So it's already there.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='KingBroly']That's um...that's definitely a new one on me. You'd think that link would've pointed that out if it were already in place. Maybe I missed it.[/quote]

[theCalifornianInMe] It's a lie. There was a federal procedural problem when Texas joined (not enough votes on the floor or something dumb like that) and over the years the myth has grown legs and now hick dumbfucks walk around pretending they can just walk away whenever they want. They're retarded.

Hawaii is the only state that has a genuine claim to be able to walk away. The vote to join the union in Hawaii was demonstrably and pretty obviously stolen by the pro-union faction.

Geithner has scared the living shit out of me.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Well, you have to build the Golf Carts aka NEVs. That requires somebody to fill a position or build a robot to fill the position.

In downtown areas and school zones with severe speed limitations, these vehicles can replace regular cars.

There is nothing really wrong with these vehicles unless you need something that can do 70mph or drive 300+ miles.

If my next job is on the same side of the Ohio River as I live, I would have no problems using one of these as a daily car.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's the thing with a lot of the items in the bill that seem silly. They create (or keep) jobs to manufacture and generate revenue to the company selling them.

Not saying it's the best use of money to stimulate the economy, but I can see how that is at least somewhat beneficial for the economy, unlike some of the earlier stuff like sex education, condoms etc.

Really, it just seems like the bank bailouts are key. The banking system needs to be stabilized, the stock market needs to stabilize and return to growth. Once that happens people will begin to regain confidence and other parts of the economy will rebound (unemployment, consumer spending etc.).

Maybe some more needs to be done by the government to help create jobs, fix infrastructure (kill two birds with one stone) but I'm not convinced we need as much spending in the stimulus bill as it currently stands. I do think we probably need all the banking funds Geithner proposed as the banking system is still in world of shit with all the toxic assests etc.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, that's the thing with a lot of the items in the bill that seem silly. They create (or keep) jobs to manufacture and generate revenue to the company selling them.

Not saying it's the best use of money to stimulate the economy, but I can see how that is at least somewhat beneficial for the economy, unlike some of the earlier stuff like sex education, condoms etc.

[/QUOTE]

thats one of my concerns with some of the provisions. that they are more like mini-bailouts that are great for the companies that get them, but are they going to create jobs or just pay for current jobs? my guess itll be more of the latter.
 
The other thing there is:

Is paying for current jobs meaning retaining jobs that would have been cut?

That would also be a good thing, but no way to know whether or not that is/was the case.

I don't really have a problem with the ones that do that and accomplish another goal. i.e. create or maintain jobs to fix infrastructure, or work on greener vehicles etc. As again it's killing two birds with one stone.
 
I agree. I just see the key thing as fixing the credit system so money is flowing again. A lot of businesses are going under as they can't get loans for new projects, loans to cover payroll etc. etc.

So fixing that is key as that will help businesses create and keep jobs etc.

I do think the government needs to do things to create jobs and so on, I just said I'm not sure the bill needs to be so big--while the banking bailout probably does need to be huge.
 
The stock market has been pretty stable since the DOW hit 8,000 way back in...October I think. It's basically been fluctuating heavily between 8,000 and 9,000 since then. Sometimes a little above, sometimes a little less. Oil's around $40 a barrel, gold is over $900 (nearing $945 as I type). The only thing that is very bad right now is the consumer mindset.

However, in a year, it's going to be worse because inflation's going to be really high. Thanks in part, to the bill they're trying to ram through both houses right now.
 
[quote name='FloodsAreUponUS']So after reading this thread, people are talking about states leaving the union?

Whats next pigs fly?[/quote]

Let me preface secessionist talk with my personal belief is that people in general can wake up and improve their circumstances without violence.

That being said ...

Is any group of Americans outside of hardcore Republicans and Democrats being represented?

We have wars the majority of people don't support, but cost billions to keep running.

We have crumbling roads people want fixed, but are left in disrepair.

We have an education system producing illiterates, but continue to fund it.

We have a prison system that produces hardened criminals and more gang members, but continue to fund it.

We have vehicles that pollute the air and have technology that makes them obsolete, but continue to fund the polluting companies.

We have virtually no rail system, but continue to fund expensive yet damaged highways and cars.

We have a permanent underclass of citizens whose potential is determined by how many gunshot wounds they can survive or excellence in an arbitrary sport and the government is OK with that.

We have areas in the country the police refuse to patrol and continue to fund police.

Said police can choke new producers on camera and there is no punishment.

We have a medical system that impoverishes all but the elite and cures little, and we allow doctors and hospitals to maintain monopolies and charge exorbitant rates.

We have bankers that have all but broken our monetary system and the solution our government has is to give them more money.

I'm sure anybody can add more to the list, but I'm just demonstrating there are plenty of reason to quit a federal government that takes so much in money and returns so little in services.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Let me preface secessionist talk with my personal belief is that people in general can wake up and improve their circumstances without violence.

That being said ...

Is any group of Americans outside of hardcore Republicans and Democrats being represented?

We have wars the majority of people don't support, but cost billions to keep running.

We have crumbling roads people want fixed, but are left in disrepair.

We have an education system producing illiterates, but continue to fund it.

We have a prison system that produces hardened criminals and more gang members, but continue to fund it.

We have vehicles that pollute the air and have technology that makes them obsolete, but continue to fund the polluting companies.

We have virtually no rail system, but continue to fund expensive yet damaged highways and cars.

We have a permanent underclass of citizens whose potential is determined by how many gunshot wounds they can survive or excellence in an arbitrary sport and the government is OK with that.

We have areas in the country the police refuse to patrol and continue to fund police.

Said police can choke new producers on camera and there is no punishment.

We have a medical system that impoverishes all but the elite and cures little, and we allow doctors and hospitals to maintain monopolies and charge exorbitant rates.

We have bankers that have all but broken our monetary system and the solution our government has is to give them more money.

I'm sure anybody can add more to the list, but I'm just demonstrating there are plenty of reason to quit a federal government that takes so much in money and returns so little in services.[/QUOTE]

our new slogan... "The United States, still better than Mexico!"
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']our new slogan... "The United States, still better than Mexico!"[/QUOTE]

Having just returned from 10 days in Mexico, that statement doesn't quite carry as much weight as I would have thought before. I'd move there if I could find a way to support myself there.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Having just returned from 10 days in Mexico, that statement doesn't quite carry as much weight as I would have thought before. I'd move there if I could find a way to support myself there.[/QUOTE]

i was leaning more towards chile.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']bla bla bla[/quote]

You're listing a ton of things that can be handled by individuals.

Is any group of Americans outside of hardcore Republicans and Democrats being represented?
Click to expand...

Your big bag pessimism doesn't make room for lobbyists for every corporation out there? C'mon, that was a freebie you could have made yourself.

We have crumbling roads people want fixed, but are left in disrepair.
Click to expand...

Yet later you talk about damaged highways and such being funded. So this is contradictory.

We have an education system producing illiterates, but continue to fund it.
Click to expand...

Solution: Help your own children. Parents can do it if they actually care. You're so proud to display your fatherhood status in your username, so you OUGHT to have those instincts.

We have vehicles that pollute the air and have technology that makes them obsolete, but continue to fund the polluting companies.
Click to expand...

So ride your bike, take a bus, walk to your job, move closer to it, etc etc. Don't bitch for the sake of bitching about something you can at least attempt to fix.

We have a permanent underclass of citizens whose potential is determined by how many gunshot wounds they can survive or excellence in an arbitrary sport and the government is OK with that.
Click to expand...

Extreme non-sequiter on the last part. At least link this back to education, not some built-in bias about "them minorities and their basketball."

We have areas in the country the police refuse to patrol and continue to fund police.
Click to expand...

Suspicious at best, though I'm sure there's a particle of truth here.

Said police can choke new producers on camera and there is no punishment.
Click to expand...

Who might turn around and sue them, so there's equal deterrent.

We have a medical system that impoverishes all but the elite and cures little, and we allow doctors and hospitals to maintain monopolies and charge exorbitant rates.
Click to expand...

I'd aim this more at big pharma rather than hospitals. Generally you can go to a hospital and get some care. Big pharma refuses you unless you cough up the cash beforehand.

I'm sure anybody can add more to the list, but I'm just demonstrating there are plenty of reason to quit a federal government that takes so much in money and returns so little in services.
Click to expand...

And the people who vote those people in shouldn't share some of the blame?

Our country isn't perfect, no. But it's highly preferable to lots of other places. That's not a solid argument I know, and that's only a sliver away from the 'ole "GET OUT IFFN YA HATE IT" mentality, but it really is true.

Best way to get some perspective is to travel or talk to people from other countries. Helps me out a lot.

You can forego "why didn't you respond to other topics I brought up" while you're at it - I omitted ones I tended to agree with our couldn't think up a satisfying response to.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Let me preface secessionist talk with my personal belief is that people in general can wake up and improve their circumstances without violence.

That being said ...

Is any group of Americans outside of hardcore Republicans and Democrats being represented?

We have wars the majority of people don't support, but cost billions to keep running.

We have crumbling roads people want fixed, but are left in disrepair.

We have an education system producing illiterates, but continue to fund it.

We have a prison system that produces hardened criminals and more gang members, but continue to fund it.

We have vehicles that pollute the air and have technology that makes them obsolete, but continue to fund the polluting companies.

We have virtually no rail system, but continue to fund expensive yet damaged highways and cars.

We have a permanent underclass of citizens whose potential is determined by how many gunshot wounds they can survive or excellence in an arbitrary sport and the government is OK with that.

We have areas in the country the police refuse to patrol and continue to fund police.

Said police can choke new producers on camera and there is no punishment.

We have a medical system that impoverishes all but the elite and cures little, and we allow doctors and hospitals to maintain monopolies and charge exorbitant rates.

We have bankers that have all but broken our monetary system and the solution our government has is to give them more money.

I'm sure anybody can add more to the list, but I'm just demonstrating there are plenty of reason to quit a federal government that takes so much in money and returns so little in services.[/quote]

I just cant even attempt to swing at this softball.

:EDIT: Thank you Strell.
 
[quote name='Strell']had a giant disconnect with an earlier post[/quote]

Here's the take home message:

Some citizens aren't happy with the US.

Some citizens don't believe the US can turn itself around and are looking to abandon ship.

There are several reasons. Most are bullshit. Some are racist. Some are contradictory. Some slivers of society believe all, a few or one reasons.

That's why I prefaced the long post.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Here's the take home message:

Some citizens aren't happy with the US.[/quote]

Even in a perfect world, there'd still be someone bitching.

HUMANS aren't happy. Just because it makes you feel better to specialize that disappointment toward a country and its government doesn't make you somehow some big guru on life.

Some citizens don't believe the US can turn itself around and are looking to abandon ship.
Click to expand...

Which is a personal choice, so what the hell does it have to do with anything? "Well it's because the government is so terrible." So? They are going to find the same load of shit in the next country - there's not some magical place you can escape to where everything is suddenly better.

Guess what - the government doesn't give a shit if you leave.

There are several reasons. Most are bullshit. Some are racist. Some are contradictory. Some slivers of society believe all, a few or one reasons.

That's why I prefaced the long post.
Click to expand...

And that's why I responded to it. You putting a few conciliatory words to try and attempt to make your position look strong doesn't change the fact that it's a weak position to have no matter HOW well you argue it.

Don't blame your crappy logic on me with some pompous "big disconnection" rhetoric - you've made a poor bed and get to sleep in it now.

If your whole point is "the US sucks and I'm mad about it," then you're not going to get very far in ANY argument, no matter what is being said on either side. Not only have you already chosen a position, but you've chosen an emotionally-laden value one, which only serves to prevent you from looking at anything with a truthful lens.

Don't pretend that your disapproval is going to get fixed, nor that it serves as some overriding mechanism to broadcast the haterade. You've got free will, cash, and a big open world, so you can either fess up now and live with your decisions, or attempt to make the best of the scenario you've got going.

Here's something to think about: a lot of the problems we face with our government can be helped IMMENSELY through our own power if we attempt to make those intersections as painless and few as possible. Hate the healthcare system? Exercise and eat right. Hate the education system? Work on your own and help your children. Yes, there's some things you can't effectively fix without government involvement, but there's a hell of a lot more good you can do with willing hands than with a big mouth or cold keyboard.

We could wake up tomorrow to find that the government had created gold-farting cinnamon rolls that could keep us full for months AND fix the economic crisis, as well as to find a brand new 52" TV in our living rooms that double-served as blowjob machines, and still some fucker out there would be pissed his TV doesn't also brew beer. It's an endlessly moving target an in endlessly unsatisfied world.
 
In a world economy like this one, if we go down, we're taking everyone else with us. Hell, some countries are definitely going to be there to break our fall if it comes to that (Spain). So if they want to leave, there isn't going to be much choice as to where they go.

I get the feeling that we're in a repeat in 1994 here. The Government is overreaching like crazy right now, and the "plan" they're giving us is not going to do much, if anything.

Also, watch out for Putin in the next couple of months. He's going to do something big that people aren't going to like.
 
His roads and highways statements aren't at all contradictory, at least here in Minnesota. The road I drive to work has 3-6" deep holes in it all over the place. So the roads aren't being fixed. Conversely, you probably heard about the 35W bridge sinking? Well now the mantra of the month is, "THINK OF THE CHILDREN BRIDGES!" We're paying millions of dollars per bridge to inspect and repair them, which isn't in itself bad. HOWEVER, in a lot of cases, the bridges are scheduled to be REPLACED, in some cases, immediately after the repairs are completed. Some of the replacements are being PUSHED BACK so they can repair them and then tear them down. Best of all, some of the fucking repairs cost more than making new bridges.

None of that even factors in the massive delays caused by closing down the only means across a river for 50 miles.

I think what needs to happen is every elected official needs to have a small explosive device planted in their head upon taking office. Any time his constituents are displeased, they can click a link on a web site. If his approval rating falls below, say, 30%, his fucking head explodes. They'd clean up the big chunks, but leave the stains. That way the next mother fucker to sit in that office KNOWS. DO YOUR fuckING JOB AND NOT LINE YOUR POCKETS. After they get enough taste of their colleagues' gray matter. they'll wise the fuck up.
 
[quote name='Kayden']
I think what needs to happen is every elected official needs to have a small explosive device planted in their head upon taking office. Any time his constituents are displeased, they can click a link on a web site. If his approval rating falls below, say, 30%, his fucking head explodes. They'd clean up the big chunks, but leave the stains. That way the next mother fucker to sit in that office KNOWS. DO YOUR fuckING JOB AND NOT LINE YOUR POCKETS. After they get enough taste of their colleagues' gray matter. they'll wise the fuck up.[/quote]
I think I read that in a Dilbert cartoon once...
 
[quote name='Kayden']His roads and highways statements aren't at all contradictory[/quote]

"We spend too much money on roads to fix them" is in direct opposition to "we have failing roads we don't spend money on."

at least here in Minnesota.
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C'mon, you know this is anecdotal.

Down here in the big T to the X, roads are ripped up and repaired and repaved and whatever other bullshit they have to do for years at a time. It's ridiculous. The big main street here is constantly under construction. For some reason, they couldn't just widen it AS they fixed it - they fixed it, got angry it wasn't wide enough, demolished what they had JUST fixed, widened it, got angry AGAIN, and repeated the cycle another four times. I am just barely exaggerating - they probably weren't mad at all when this all happened.

There was one intersection that was in some state of disrepair and disimprovement for over ten years (by which I mean they were trying to improve it but failing), which wouldn't have bothered me if it weren't literally one of the BUSIEST in the entire city. It was like getting a new set of Legos for a castle and putting it together, waiting a year, taking it apart, putting it back together EXACTLY only this time it took three times as long because you didn't have the instructions, getting bored two years later and taking it apart, telling yourself "this time I'm SURE I know what I want" and SUPERGLUEING it all together, and then making it that much more difficult to demolish, repair, and remake a few years later.

If I'd had a swear jar in my lifetime, that would have been the reason.

My city has this unbelievable fetish love affair with medians - perfectly good neighborhood streets suddenly are closed off for two weeks to make a silly stupid little concrete platform. This happens for no reason, out of nowhere, in places it's not required, and ruins various commutes with startling efficiency.

And then a few years later it's demolished, just to be recreated.

Point being that while I understand the wasting of money with roads, it's all dependent on where you live. The roads here - once finished and no longer fucked with - are actually quite top notch, until some fat bastard decides he wants to spend money fixing some shit that didn't need its shit fixed at all to begin with. It does piss me off to no end to see a perfectly fine road be torn up for god knows what reason, and finding out my city greenlit several million dollars to improve some fucking road no one uses or doesn't need any fucking around with.

Look, let's not get me wrong, alright? I'm not so idealistic or blind as to suggest that one can't bitch about this country. HOWEVER, I am one to suggest that there are certain things within our own power that we simply neglect or ignore to do. Probably the easiest, least-explanation-needed example is sex ed. Should I ever have kids, I'm going to be completely and totally honest, upfront, and transparent with them about it. They'll know the ins and outs by middle school and be far more educated than all the people who leave it up to the gub'ment. I completely have the power to function on that, and in this economy, it almost makes me wish we could collectively agree as a nation to suspend all spending on it, place the blame on the parents, and use the money elsewhere.

But that requires leaning too much on people who are lazy, embarrassed, and don't know shit.
 
Yea... if there were any fiscal issues, it would have come from the 12 people that bought a house last year... that didn't foreclose.
 
[quote name='Strell']"We spend too much money on roads to fix them" is in direct opposition to "we have failing roads we don't spend money on."
[/QUOTE]

I think he was making two separate points and just phrased them poorly.

I think he was trying to say we spend to much on building and expanding roads vs. building rail systems and other public transportation and more fuel efficient cars.

And despite that, we don't spend enough maintaining the roads we have. Roads are shitty and full of potholes here in the DC areas as well (at least in the Maryland suburbs).

Maybe that's not what he meant, but that was how I took it knowing his general stance of transportation issues.
 
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