2012 Election Thread

Well then if the president doesn't have much of an effect on the economy, why bother making that his "one big thing"?
 
I don't see how anyone could think Obama, as a whole, won the debate. The problem is though that he is going to have a tough time winning any debates even with more preperation time simply because Romney was throwing out a lot of hard failure facts at him that aren't easily deflected.

Saying, essentially, he sucked as a president and has done little to improve the country isn't a claim, its a fact. Tough to escape from that.
 
[quote name='chibamm'] I tend to agree with Romney that the most important thing is creating and maintaining jobs in America.
On the other hand, I really don't think the President, no matter who he is, has that much effect on an economy as a whole. And if they do, the effects of it won't be seen immediately.[/QUOTE]

Did Romney really say that we need to 'maintain' jobs in America? Because that is impossible and he knows it.

The only way we're going to have enough jobs in America is if we get ahead of the curve and invent new technologies and new industries that require semi-skilled labor (for example clean energy), while taking a common-sense approach to healthcare and other factors that contribute to American worker overhead. Traditional jobs that can be outsourced will be outsourced - IE if you're a plumber you're ok (that can't be outsourced) but if you work in a manufacturing job then watch out.
 
[quote name='Thekrakrabbit']I don't see how anyone could think Obama, as a whole, won the debate. The problem is though that he is going to have a tough time winning any debates even with more preperation time simply because Romney was throwing out a lot of hard failure facts at him that aren't easily deflected.

Saying, essentially, he sucked as a president and has done little to improve the country isn't a claim, its a fact. Tough to escape from that.[/QUOTE]

Your ignorance astounds me. Start with learning what a fact is.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']And that's where Obama really sucked last night. He did a terrible job of countering those attacks, he didn't call Romney on his BS nearly enough, didn't talk about things he did for the economy enough (not enough on the auto bailout etc.).

He just seemed tired, disengaged and like he just didn't give a crap in general.[/QUOTE]

I think he was just exhausted. You could have all the prep and enthusiasm in the world, but if you're really tired or sick you're just not going to be able to give it 100%

Obama's a pro, the other debates will be more interesting.
 
How did I know that an Obama lover was going to quote me and go "wut!? Obama has been great and everything is rainbows and sunshines". That's why I usually stay out of these things, it always just turns into fighting because nobody can be swayed from their views. They decide somebody is the best and it doesn't matter if he slaughtered a bus full of babies with the severed limb of their grandma, they are always the best.
 
[quote name='Thekrakrabbit']I don't see how anyone could think Obama, as a whole, won the debate. The problem is though that he is going to have a tough time winning any debates even with more preperation time simply because Romney was throwing out a lot of hard failure facts at him that aren't easily deflected.

Saying, essentially, he sucked as a president and has done little to improve the country isn't a claim, its a fact. Tough to escape from that.[/QUOTE]
I hope you realize that we'll shit on you even worse that those ot tards you talk with. Only we'll do it by calling you out on how stupid you are.
 
[quote name='Thekrakrabbit']How did I know that an Obama lover was going to quote me and go "wut!? Obama has been great and everything is rainbows and sunshines". That's why I usually stay out of these things, it always just turns into fighting because nobody can be swayed from their views. They decide somebody is the best and it doesn't matter if he slaughtered a bus full of babies with the severed limb of their grandma, they are always the best.[/QUOTE]

You're welcome to your own opinion but don't present it as a fact.

Is it that hard to get? Come on man...
 
[quote name='camoor']I think he was just exhausted. You could have all the prep and enthusiasm in the world, but if you're really tired or sick you're just not going to be able to give it 100%[/QUOTE]

Considering it was his anniversary, there could be a reason for exhaustion.

If ya catch my drift!;)
 
[quote name='Clak']I hope you realize that we'll shit on you even worse that those ot tards you talk with. Only we'll do it by calling you out on how stupid you are.[/QUOTE]

[quote name='camoor']You're welcome to your own opinion but don't present it as a fact.

Is it that hard to get? Come on man...[/QUOTE]

So you're going to tell me that Barack Obama improved this country in any significant way during his FOUR YEARS as president? How many things have gotten worse? OK, now how many have gotten better? A little lopsided there in favor of "more things got worse then got better".
 
[quote name='Thekrakrabbit']So you're going to tell me that Barack Obama improved this country in any significant way during his FOUR YEARS as president? How many things have gotten worse? OK, now how many have gotten better? A little lopsided there in favor of "more things got worse then got better".[/QUOTE]

So do you blame the fire department for the arsonist burning down your house?
 
[quote name='Thekrakrabbit']So you're going to tell me that Barack Obama improved this country in any significant way during his FOUR YEARS as president? How many things have gotten worse? OK, now how many have gotten better? A little lopsided there in favor of "more things got worse then got better".[/QUOTE]
Ok, like, how many have gotten worse, like just how many are worse, ya know? Like, I know you know how they're worse, but like, ya know, how are they worse?

fuck me this is gonna be like another slidecage...
 
A lot of things have gotten better, though not all due to him.

Economy is getting better. The stimulus no doubt played some role in keeping the recession from getting worse, the autobail out saved a lot of jobs, the stock market has bounced back to almost were it was before the crash.

He got a health care bill through, that while being far from the universal health care plan I wanted will at least cover more people and has already had big benefits for people in their 20s (can stay on parents insurance until 26) and people with pre-existing conditions.

He was able to stick to the Iraq withdrawal time line, has done a reasonable job managing the Afghan war with the buildup and now drawdown. He ended the stupid don't ask, don't tell policy. Finally spoke in support of gay marriage etc.

And so on.

Plenty of things I don't like such as Guantanamo still being open (though not his fault as state's and other countries wouldn't take the prisoners), drone strikes, still cracking down on medical marijuana etc.

But no president is anywhere near perfect. Especially in our system of government where they have to govern from the center. But we're far better off than we would have been under McCain IMO, and we'll be better off in 2016 under him than Romney (unless you're wealthy, then by all means vote for Romney).
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']So do you blame the fire department for the arsonist burning down your house?[/QUOTE]

Its not the same thing, because Presidents are ELECTED to improve, or at least work on things. He has done little for the general health of the US besides waste time on Obamacare, which was never really a good idea to begin with. Obviously he was trying to solidify his legacy with Obamacare, but that thing just isn't a good way to go about it and he wasted a lot of time fighting for that when he should have been focusing his efforts on more important, immediate things.
 
There is some merit to the idea of not giving specifics because in reality, things have to be hammered out by Congress.

However, not giving specifics because your plan is nonsense that is not actually possible is a different thing. The deductions simply dont exist to lower all effective rates in the way they have outlined. Not all that much money is saved by cutting the deductions mainly used by the rich. A lot would be saved by getting rid of the deductions mainly used by the middle class, but then you'd be raising their effective rates.

The question on the lips of reporters should not be to ask for specific deductions. The question should be, you know this plan is bullshit, right?
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']
But no president is anywhere near perfect. Especially in our system of government where they have to govern from the center. But we're far better off than we would have been under McCain IMO, and we'll be better off in 2016 under him than Romney (unless you're wealthy, then by all means vote for Romney).[/QUOTE]

See, thats the thing. This is going to be my last post in this thread because, frankly, I'm already getting bored with this knowing nobody will budge on their views.

There's an idea here about the two. Obama sucked as a President, generally, and during his four year term did a lot of stuff, but plenty of it was not "good" stuff. Not even counting his fake student IDs and controversies like that. Barry, I mean, Barack, shouldn't be re-elected, things will only get worse.

Romney is the rich guy (because Obama is poor, right?) who is will only destroy poor people and will make things worse because he will only help the rich people. He will do nothing new and shouldn't be elected.

Romney supporters believe the first description and won't budge on that, while vice versa for the Obama supporters. I think its easy to see that I lean towards Obama being a suck President who did far too much wrong in his term to be re-elected and things will absolutely get worse with another FOUR years of him as President.

That being said, I don't expect anybody to be perfect but this is the worst economy with the highest unemployment numbers and massive US debt in soooo long. Those are FACTS. I'm not saying Barack is a terrorist or claiming he eats kittens for dinner, the FACTS are that this is a horrible economy, with record highs of jobless Americans.
 
But krakrabbit, everything about the economy could be even worse if Obama wasn't president. Don't believe the scare tactics of the right, without Obama everything would be awful. Republicans are terrible, don't believe the job numbers. Rabble rabble rabble.
 
[quote name='Thekrakrabbit']Its not the same thing, because Presidents are ELECTED to improve, or at least work on things. [/QUOTE]

So are you results oriented or effort oriented? Because this sentence is saying both.

[quote name='Thekrakrabbit']He has done little for the general health of the US besides waste time on Obamacare, which was never really a good idea to begin with. Obviously he was trying to solidify his legacy with Obamacare, but that thing just isn't a good way to go about it and he wasted a lot of time fighting for that when he should have been focusing his efforts on more important, immediate things.[/QUOTE]

Obamacare was passed barely a year into his Presidency. He took office Jan. '09 and Obamacare was passed Mar. '10. You can't say he's spent his entire 4 years as President working on it when it passed barely into his 1st year...
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']But krakrabbit, everything about the economy could be even worse if Obama wasn't president. Don't believe the scare tactics of the right, without Obama everything would be awful. Republicans are terrible, don't believe the job numbers. Rabble rabble rabble.[/QUOTE]

You're totally right, I am certainly a 'crat now. Obama should have statues made of him and be allowed to be President for as long as he lives. He is the savior of the world.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']But krakrabbit, everything about the economy could be even worse if Obama wasn't president. Don't believe the scare tactics of the right, without Obama everything would be awful. Republicans are terrible, don't believe the job numbers. Rabble rabble rabble.[/QUOTE]

Hey, it's Romney who has been saying that he'd create the same 12 million jobs that the Congressional Budget Office is projecting regardless of who wins the election...

When this is the quality of the posts of the Republican-leaning members on this board what else is there to work with? Really, what have you brought to this discussion intellectually rather than to point out yet again that all the liberals on this board are just blind followers?
 
[quote name='Clak']Ok, like, how many have gotten worse, like just how many are worse, ya know? Like, I know you know how they're worse, but like, ya know, how are they worse?

fuck me this is gonna be like another slidecage...[/QUOTE]

jesus man, let the kid smell his fart before you go setting his pants on fire...
 
[quote name='nasum']jesus man, let the kid smell his fart before you go setting his pants on fire...[/QUOTE]
It's been an off day, alright?:lol: Besides that my NLY isn't doing so well and I may end up selling it off....
 
Oh relax, you're a week out from a 15% success punishment. Look at the 1yr chart and see the wild fluctuations right around divvie payments. Then it goes back to normal for the next quarter.

You know you got it because if you look quickly it's Anally Capital.

So krakrabbit, if this is the worst economic climate in a long time, can you please explain how Fortune 500 companies are making record profits and have record amounts of capital as well? Your second task is the following:
1.) What happens if that capital is taxed at a higher rate?
2.) What happens if that capital is threatened to be taxed at a higher rate, but will remain low if it is used to hire US workers or at least pay their current staff better?
3.) What happens if nothing changes?
 
Last time they paid out there wasn't this big a fluctuation if I remember right though. It's been above 17 for quite a while and keep dipping closer and closer to what I paid. I'm giving it til November probably, if it gets too much closer I may jump ship.

Actually I've been thinking about looking at DCIX. A friend of mine has been doing well with some Greek companies, and shipping seems to to still be doing pretty well. That dividend doesn't hurt either...
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Obama actually promised to do that himself in 2008, to eliminate deductions for those over $200,000.[/QUOTE]
In fairness, this is probably where we point out that Republicans filibuster anything even remotely having to do with an Obama budget.
 
Conservatives: Obama accomplished nothing!
Liberals: Well you made it your mission to not let him....
Conservatives:.........
Conservatives: Obama accomplished nothing!
 
DCIX
Oof! Profit margin of 17% but pays nearly 22%? That's kinda sorta unsustainable. Granted shipping will follow manufacturing which is slowly on the rise. I like their debt too, only $0.45 of debt for every $1.00 of shareholder equity, all long term no less.
Very tempting for a short term holding. Might be wise to wait until they announce the next dividend just to make sure they stick with it. Yeah, it'll cost you a few cents per share but considering the $2 nosedive in the last couple of months I'd rather spend a few cents to not lose a few dollars if ya dig what I'm shoveling.
 
[quote name='camoor']Did Romney really say that we need to 'maintain' jobs in America? Because that is impossible and he knows it.

The only way we're going to have enough jobs in America is if we get ahead of the curve and invent new technologies and new industries that require semi-skilled labor (for example clean energy), while taking a common-sense approach to healthcare and other factors that contribute to American worker overhead. Traditional jobs that can be outsourced will be outsourced - IE if you're a plumber you're ok (that can't be outsourced) but if you work in a manufacturing job then watch out.[/QUOTE]

Romney didn't use that language but that was the vibe I got off of his speech. Much like Obama's 'save or create' idea.
I feel the U.S. is already ahead of the curve for industry and tech. Google, Apple, Dell, Microsoft, and those are just the 'techy' ones I could think of now. The problem is for these companies to actually produce more in the U.S. without being so cost inhibitive.
Ugh, this is frustrating because all I'm doing is stating what both candidates and parties want, and that's more of the work being done in the U.S. More workers, more taxes, more people who are going to vote for you.
Speaking of outsourcing, isn't there a slowdown or reversal of outsourcing trends because of higher wages in China?
 
Yeah they should announce sometime in November. Going to see what happens, their dividend has been all over the place fairly recently.
 
[quote name='chibamm']Romney didn't use that language but that was the vibe I got off of his speech. Much like Obama's 'save or create' idea.
I feel the U.S. is already ahead of the curve for industry and tech. Google, Apple, Dell, Microsoft, and those are just the 'techy' ones I could think of now. The problem is for these companies to actually produce more in the U.S. without being so cost inhibitive.
Ugh, this is frustrating because all I'm doing is stating what both candidates and parties want, and that's more of the work being done in the U.S. More workers, more taxes, more people who are going to vote for you.
Speaking of outsourcing, isn't there a slowdown or reversal of outsourcing trends because of higher wages in China?[/QUOTE]

China isn't the only place in the world for cheap labor.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']A lot of things have gotten better, though not all due to him.

Economy is getting better. The stimulus no doubt played some role in keeping the recession from getting worse, the autobail out saved a lot of jobs, the stock market has bounced back to almost were it was before the crash.

He got a health care bill through, that while being far from the universal health care plan I wanted will at least cover more people and has already had big benefits for people in their 20s (can stay on parents insurance until 26) and people with pre-existing conditions.

He was able to stick to the Iraq withdrawal time line, has done a reasonable job managing the Afghan war with the buildup and now drawdown. He ended the stupid don't ask, don't tell policy. Finally spoke in support of gay marriage etc.

And so on.

Plenty of things I don't like such as Guantanamo still being open (though not his fault as state's and other countries wouldn't take the prisoners), drone strikes, still cracking down on medical marijuana etc.

But no president is anywhere near perfect. Especially in our system of government where they have to govern from the center. But we're far better off than we would have been under McCain IMO, and we'll be better off in 2016 under him than Romney (unless you're wealthy, then by all means vote for Romney).[/QUOTE]

yea right show me how obama has made it better in the last 3 + years.

gas has doubled

almost doubled our debt

more people out of jobs (if he made so many jobs that is why unemployment is still over 8%)

so you can stay on your parents health care what you going to do when you hit 27 cry and demand to stay on till your 35

and just wait till your parents health bill doubles or triples and they dont have it either ...

I love how people think your health care isnt going to go up a cent but allow everyone to be covered....so if someone needs a million dollar operation they can wait up to the month before .. Pay the first month get it done and then pay 100 bucks per month for a million bucks... the company would go bankrupt in no time (what obama wants)


you know damn well these debates wont do a damn thing to anyone

whoever wants obama will say he won everything
who wants Romney will say he won everything
 
[quote name='nasum']Oh relax, you're a week out from a 15% success punishment. Look at the 1yr chart and see the wild fluctuations right around divvie payments. Then it goes back to normal for the next quarter.

You know you got it because if you look quickly it's Anally Capital.

So krakrabbit, if this is the worst economic climate in a long time, can you please explain how Fortune 500 companies are making record profits and have record amounts of capital as well? Your second task is the following:
1.) What happens if that capital is taxed at a higher rate?
2.) What happens if that capital is threatened to be taxed at a higher rate, but will remain low if it is used to hire US workers or at least pay their current staff better?
3.) What happens if nothing changes?[/QUOTE]

Just curious as to what your take is on the excess reserves interest?
Getting away from politics and definitely more economical nuts and bolts.
 
[quote name='Clak']China isn't the only place in the world for cheap labor.[/QUOTE]

I never said it was. Can't argue that it is definitely the largest though.
 
[quote name='chibamm']I never said it was. Can't argue that it is definitely the largest though.[/QUOTE]
India still does it bigger and better (as far as the original point of outsourcing goes) I think China always gets the brunt of the attacks but they still have a long way to go to get on India's level. China cant compete with their technical expertise yet.
 
[quote name='slidecage']yea right show me how obama has made it better in the last 3 + years.

gas has doubled

almost doubled our debt

more people out of jobs (if he made so many jobs that is why unemployment is still over 8%)

so you can stay on your parents health care what you going to do when you hit 27 cry and demand to stay on till your 35

and just wait till your parents health bill doubles or triples and they dont have it either ...

I love how people think your health care isnt going to go up a cent but allow everyone to be covered....so if someone needs a million dollar operation they can wait up to the month before .. Pay the first month get it done and then pay 100 bucks per month for a million bucks... the company would go bankrupt in no time (what obama wants)


you know damn well these debates wont do a damn thing to anyone

whoever wants obama will say he won everything
who wants Romney will say he won everything[/QUOTE]
Shush, the adults are talking.
 
That was a stylistic beatdown last night, but there was absolutely nothing of importance said about anything last night. Can't wait for the foreign policy debate, to see who will suck Israel's dick the hardest and listen to who can scream the loudest for more mass murder.
 
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']That was a stylistic beatdown last night, but there was absolutely nothing of importance said about anything last night. Can't wait for the foreign policy debate, to see who will suck Israel's dick the hardest and listen to who can scream the loudest for more mass murder.[/QUOTE]
Yeah they only talked about the economy, not like its considered to be the most important issue of the day or anything.

Saw a new Obama attack ad today... Romney's company apparently once invested in another company who makes products in China! Shocking I tell you!
 
Here comes the October surprise. For Origin from that Amazon EA pack: gone

Quote if you claim it or you find out someone else already did. It's the only game in the pack I already had. 4 games for $7.50 is still awesome.

Spoiler. If you already have Burnout Paradise on Steam consider not claiming it, but I say do what you like.
 
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[quote name='EdRyder']India still does it bigger and better (as far as the original point of outsourcing goes) I think China always gets the brunt of the attacks but they still have a long way to go to get on India's level. China cant compete with their technical expertise yet.[/QUOTE]
Yep, believe India has actually surpassed China in population.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']Yeah they only talked about the economy, not like its considered to be the most important issue of the day or anything.

Saw a new Obama attack ad today... Romney's company apparently once invested in another company who makes products in China! Shocking I tell you![/QUOTE]

There was absolutely nothing said about monetary policy, and Romney tried walking back any semblance of being a tax cutter. I guess if PBS is worth making a fuss over, sure, but other than that, it was platitude after platitude.
 
[quote name='dafoomie']oday... Romney's company apparently once invested in another company who makes products in China! Shocking I tell you![/QUOTE]

Romney keeps saying that he was a jobs creator in the past. It must have been a past life because he's been fucking over the middle class for fat profits in this one.
 
[quote name='Purple Flames']I thought this was worth mentioning: according to a few sources, Mitt brought a cheat sheet to the debate (I believe that's a violation of the rules if I'm not mistaken). In the first 11 seconds of the video you can clearly see him pull something out of his pocket and place it underneath the blank sheet of people they used to take notes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkrwUU_YApE&feature=player_embedded[/QUOTE]

That's about as controversial as that 'earpiece' in Bush's jacket in the '04 debates.
 
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