Beatofficer
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For what they gave up in that package, I'm surprised they didn't get Price.
2012 MLB Discussion
- Thread starter bigdaddybruce44
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Feeding the Abscess
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[quote name='tcrash247']I didn't know Greinke too much but I just looked at his stats and he's not that great. Why did he get such a ridiculous contract for one great year and a bunch of meh ones? He's nowhere near the caliber of CC or Hamels, I don't know why his contract is more than theirs. Sure the Dodgers need pitching and he's the #2 there but he'd be #3 on a lot of teams. I guess one Cy Young award will get you a lot of money for the rest of your life.[/QUOTE]
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...=2008&ind=0&team=&rost=&age=&filter=&players=
Greinke looks like he's been pretty great to me. I'm not sure what else you want him to do - hit 50 HR? Play shortstop when he doesn't pitch?
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...=2008&ind=0&team=&rost=&age=&filter=&players=
Greinke looks like he's been pretty great to me. I'm not sure what else you want him to do - hit 50 HR? Play shortstop when he doesn't pitch?
[quote name='Feeding the Abscess']http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.as...=2008&ind=0&team=&rost=&age=&filter=&players=
Greinke looks like he's been pretty great to me. I'm not sure what else you want him to do - hit 50 HR? Play shortstop when he doesn't pitch?[/QUOTE]
If that list tells you anything, it's that WAR isn't everything. According to that list, Jon Lester and Dan Haren are deserving of huge contracts too and players you'd rather have than Kershaw, Weaver, Hamels and Cain, right? Take out Greinke's fluke 2009 and he's going to drop in the list.
Greinke looks like he's been pretty great to me. I'm not sure what else you want him to do - hit 50 HR? Play shortstop when he doesn't pitch?[/QUOTE]
If that list tells you anything, it's that WAR isn't everything. According to that list, Jon Lester and Dan Haren are deserving of huge contracts too and players you'd rather have than Kershaw, Weaver, Hamels and Cain, right? Take out Greinke's fluke 2009 and he's going to drop in the list.
speedracer
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[quote name='tcrash247']I didn't know Greinke too much but I just looked at his stats and he's not that great. Why did he get such a ridiculous contract for one great year and a bunch of meh ones? He's nowhere near the caliber of CC or Hamels, I don't know why his contract is more than theirs. Sure the Dodgers need pitching and he's the #2 there but he'd be #3 on a lot of teams. I guess one Cy Young award will get you a lot of money for the rest of your life.[/QUOTE]
Meh by what measure exactly? His xFIP has consistently been around 3 and was actually better in '11 than the "fluke" 09 year. Other than a "flukey" hr/9 and babip in '11, it's pretty clear his '11 year was outstanding as well. If we really take a step back and look at all peripherals, his 09-12 years have been fantastic on every level. His consistency is striking. He is clearly a top 10 pitcher.
And then if we take the "market" into consideration and look at the top 10 by WAR, we see that nobody on this side of 30 comes without significant injury risk except Verlander. Oh, and none have or will hit free agency anytime soon except 32 year old injury risk Haren. There are no comps for Greinke on the free agency wire. You cannot buy a guy in his class except him.
Hate the price. Sure, the Dodgers overpaid (they didn't because they can't overpay, but that's a different story) but don't pretend Greinke isn't what he is. The numbers don't lie.
[quote name='Beatofficer']It's most likely because he's the best pitcher on the market this year. That amount of money they probably could have got both Lohse and Anibal Sanchez and would've ended off better.[/QUOTE]
That's crazy talk. There's a reason Lohse isn't signed. Actually there's a couple of them.
Meh by what measure exactly? His xFIP has consistently been around 3 and was actually better in '11 than the "fluke" 09 year. Other than a "flukey" hr/9 and babip in '11, it's pretty clear his '11 year was outstanding as well. If we really take a step back and look at all peripherals, his 09-12 years have been fantastic on every level. His consistency is striking. He is clearly a top 10 pitcher.
And then if we take the "market" into consideration and look at the top 10 by WAR, we see that nobody on this side of 30 comes without significant injury risk except Verlander. Oh, and none have or will hit free agency anytime soon except 32 year old injury risk Haren. There are no comps for Greinke on the free agency wire. You cannot buy a guy in his class except him.
Hate the price. Sure, the Dodgers overpaid (they didn't because they can't overpay, but that's a different story) but don't pretend Greinke isn't what he is. The numbers don't lie.
[quote name='Beatofficer']It's most likely because he's the best pitcher on the market this year. That amount of money they probably could have got both Lohse and Anibal Sanchez and would've ended off better.[/QUOTE]
That's crazy talk. There's a reason Lohse isn't signed. Actually there's a couple of them.
DestroVega
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[quote name='tcrash247']I'm not saying he's bad, I just don't think he's great and worth the money. I know you guys like sabermetrics and hold them in a higher regard than ERA, but just looking at his ERA, he's pretty average.[/QUOTE]
His playoff performances have been abysmal, albeit with a small sample size. This is also a guy who has huge anxiety issues. LA is definitely the place to be with that.
His playoff performances have been abysmal, albeit with a small sample size. This is also a guy who has huge anxiety issues. LA is definitely the place to be with that.
speedracer
Banned
[quote name='DestroVega']His playoff performances have been abysmal, albeit with a small sample size.[/quote]
He got blown up by a team that blew up everybody. Come on now.
Non issue.
And as a tidy side bonus, the Dodgers have always pushed Chad Billingsley to the maximum because they desperately needed him to be the stud they always hoped. The now ridiculous Dodger starting situation with their signing of Grienke and that Korean dude (Bills is what, #3 at best.. maybe #4?) allows them to take better care of Bills and his ongoing health problems.
He got blown up by a team that blew up everybody. Come on now.
That was a long time ago. One could also argue that since he's not even the #1 on the Dodgers that it's not like he's taking the world on by himself (helloooo KC). One could also argue that since this is the first time in his career that he's had a long term contract with a team with zero intent on moving him, that might be helpful.
Non issue.
And as a tidy side bonus, the Dodgers have always pushed Chad Billingsley to the maximum because they desperately needed him to be the stud they always hoped. The now ridiculous Dodger starting situation with their signing of Grienke and that Korean dude (Bills is what, #3 at best.. maybe #4?) allows them to take better care of Bills and his ongoing health problems.
Beatofficer
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[quote name='DestroVega']His playoff performances have been abysmal, albeit with a small sample size. This is also a guy who has huge anxiety issues. LA is definitely the place to be with that.[/QUOTE]
he hasn't had anxiety issues since 2006 I think? It's been several years.
he hasn't had anxiety issues since 2006 I think? It's been several years.
CaseyRyback
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Plus orange county is pretty close to L.A. and he pitched pretty well for the Angels.
PancakesAreLove
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Jesus I feel sorry for Royals fans.
[quote name='tcrash247']If that list tells you anything, it's that WAR isn't everything. According to that list, Jon Lester and Dan Haren are deserving of huge contracts too and players you'd rather have than Kershaw, Weaver, Hamels and Cain, right? Take out Greinke's fluke 2009 and he's going to drop in the list.[/QUOTE]
Haren has a back issue. Lester has been going downhill for a few years now. Greinke is on the same level as Weaver, Hamels and Cain.
Lets look at 4 pitchers:
Pitcher A: 188.2 IP 6.77 K/9 2.15 BB/9 3.75 FIP 4.02 SIERA
Pitcher B: 212.1 IP 8.48 K/9 2.29 BB/9 3.10 FIP 3.30 SEIRA
Pitcher C: 215.1 IP 9.03 K/9 2.17 BB/9 3.30 FIP 3.22 SIERA
Pitcher D: 219.1 IP 7.92 K/9 2.09 BB/9 3.40 FIP 3.62 SIERA
Pitcher B is Zack. Weaver is A, Hamels is C and Cain is D. So yeah, Zack deserves this contract.
[quote name='DestroVega']This is also a guy who has huge anxiety issues. LA is definitely the place to be with that.[/QUOTE]
Only Zack Greinke himself can tell you if he will have anxiety in LA.
Haren has a back issue. Lester has been going downhill for a few years now. Greinke is on the same level as Weaver, Hamels and Cain.
Lets look at 4 pitchers:
Pitcher A: 188.2 IP 6.77 K/9 2.15 BB/9 3.75 FIP 4.02 SIERA
Pitcher B: 212.1 IP 8.48 K/9 2.29 BB/9 3.10 FIP 3.30 SEIRA
Pitcher C: 215.1 IP 9.03 K/9 2.17 BB/9 3.30 FIP 3.22 SIERA
Pitcher D: 219.1 IP 7.92 K/9 2.09 BB/9 3.40 FIP 3.62 SIERA
Pitcher B is Zack. Weaver is A, Hamels is C and Cain is D. So yeah, Zack deserves this contract.
[quote name='DestroVega']This is also a guy who has huge anxiety issues. LA is definitely the place to be with that.[/QUOTE]
Only Zack Greinke himself can tell you if he will have anxiety in LA.
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[quote name='HornyPony']Lester has been going downhill for a few years now.
[/QUOTE]
Really it's just one year. His 2011 season, while not quite on par with his best, was still a fine season by just about any standard. His 2012 was atrocious, but you could say the same for just about anyone on the Sox.
It's certainly not unreasonable to expect that the return of John Farrell will help straighten him out. He's 28 years old, I think it'd be a bit premature to close the book on him.
[/QUOTE]
Really it's just one year. His 2011 season, while not quite on par with his best, was still a fine season by just about any standard. His 2012 was atrocious, but you could say the same for just about anyone on the Sox.
It's certainly not unreasonable to expect that the return of John Farrell will help straighten him out. He's 28 years old, I think it'd be a bit premature to close the book on him.
[quote name='bvharris']Really it's just one year. His 2011 season, while not quite on par with his best, was still a fine season by just about any standard. His 2012 was atrocious, but you could say the same for just about anyone on the Sox.
It's certainly not unreasonable to expect that the return of John Farrell will help straighten him out. He's 28 years old, I think it'd be a bit premature to close the book on him.[/QUOTE]
His K/9 have been dropping with HR/9 increasing. Regardless, he is still a good pitcher and gave pretty much the same production as Zack in 2011. Historically, Zack is better.
It's certainly not unreasonable to expect that the return of John Farrell will help straighten him out. He's 28 years old, I think it'd be a bit premature to close the book on him.[/QUOTE]
His K/9 have been dropping with HR/9 increasing. Regardless, he is still a good pitcher and gave pretty much the same production as Zack in 2011. Historically, Zack is better.
CaseyRyback
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http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/mlb/...reinke-last-major-expense-los-angeles-dodgers
The one thing I always find funny about Greinke is that he has the worst player photo on ESPN. Dude looks super serial in that photo. Almost like someone just lit a bag of dog shit on fire on his front porch and he just stepped in it.
Also if money was really an issue, that must mean that Texas offered like 6/110 or something (which I doubt). If money was everything, I don't think he factored in cost of living and taxes. I remember reading that if the deal was 180 from LA it would be comparable to 150 from Texas.
The one thing I always find funny about Greinke is that he has the worst player photo on ESPN. Dude looks super serial in that photo. Almost like someone just lit a bag of dog shit on fire on his front porch and he just stepped in it.
Also if money was really an issue, that must mean that Texas offered like 6/110 or something (which I doubt). If money was everything, I don't think he factored in cost of living and taxes. I remember reading that if the deal was 180 from LA it would be comparable to 150 from Texas.
Beatofficer
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Reds got Shin-Soo Choo in what looks like a 3 team trade with the Indians and Diamondbacks.
pitfallharry219
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Youkilis signed a one year deal with the Yankees.
GhostShark
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Pretty decent trade, and it looks like all the teams got what the wanted. My key concern here is that I hope this doesn't affect any deal concerning Justin Upton coming to Texas.
Beatofficer
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[quote name='GhostShark']Pretty decent trade, and it looks like all the teams got what the wanted. My key concern here is that I hope this doesn't affect any deal concerning Justin Upton coming to Texas.[/QUOTE]
I'm really surprised Arizona gave up Bryan Shaw and Bauer to be honest, Shaw had some nasty stuff and Bauer a lot of potential.
I'm really surprised Arizona gave up Bryan Shaw and Bauer to be honest, Shaw had some nasty stuff and Bauer a lot of potential.
speedracer
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[quote name='speedracer'][quote name='HornyPony']Someone will give him 5 years. Though I would not want my team to touch him with a stick. The last time he played over 150 games was in 2008.[/QUOTE]
By buying through age 36, you're leaving him with shit on the other side of the contract. He ain't gettin another big one after that. So how much would he need to sign if 4 years was max? $25/year? $30/year? What's the premium to not have the 40 year old Hamilton under contract?
Not to bring up our little spat again, but that's part of the value I see in AGon. We walk away in 5 years. Votto is owed $45m for his age 39 and 40 years. That's a
ton of cash for an old man.[/QUOTE]
So apparently the number was between 25 and 30 a year. Report is the Phillies have offered 3/$80, or $26.6m/year.
edit: rumor was fake apparently
By buying through age 36, you're leaving him with shit on the other side of the contract. He ain't gettin another big one after that. So how much would he need to sign if 4 years was max? $25/year? $30/year? What's the premium to not have the 40 year old Hamilton under contract?
Not to bring up our little spat again, but that's part of the value I see in AGon. We walk away in 5 years. Votto is owed $45m for his age 39 and 40 years. That's a
ton of cash for an old man.[/QUOTE]So apparently the number was between 25 and 30 a year. Report is the Phillies have offered 3/$80, or $26.6m/year.
edit: rumor was fake apparently
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integralsmatic
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[quote name='GhostShark']Pretty decent trade, and it looks like all the teams got what the wanted. My key concern here is that I hope this doesn't affect any deal concerning Justin Upton coming to Texas.[/QUOTE]
Towers has been quoted as saying the trade has no made trading Upton more unlikely.
I guess for the rangers, its all on Hamilton now.
Towers has been quoted as saying the trade has no made trading Upton more unlikely.
I guess for the rangers, its all on Hamilton now.
GhostShark
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Which is terrible, because they will overpay for him. But, really, they have no other choice. Unless Jon Daniels has got something cooking that we don't know about.
[quote name='speedracer']So apparently the number was between 25 and 30 a year. Report is the Phillies have offered 3/$80, or $26.6m/year.
edit: rumor was fake apparently[/QUOTE]
I think quite a few teams would like Hamilton on a 3 year deal. Thus, someone will definitely offer him a forth year. I expect a team like the Mariners offer him a 4/100 and Texas matching it.
But even if Hamilton slips through the fingers and Upton is no longer available, Swisher is certainly not a bad replacement.
edit: rumor was fake apparently[/QUOTE]
I think quite a few teams would like Hamilton on a 3 year deal. Thus, someone will definitely offer him a forth year. I expect a team like the Mariners offer him a 4/100 and Texas matching it.
But even if Hamilton slips through the fingers and Upton is no longer available, Swisher is certainly not a bad replacement.
[quote name='HornyPony']I think quite a few teams would like Hamilton on a 3 year deal. Thus, someone will definitely offer him a forth year. I expect a team like the Mariners offer him a 4/100 and Texas matching it.
But even if Hamilton slips through the fingers and Upton is no longer available, Swisher is certainly not a bad replacement.[/QUOTE]
If it's only a 3 year deal I think the Yankees become a player, assuming they are able to move Granderson.
But even if Hamilton slips through the fingers and Upton is no longer available, Swisher is certainly not a bad replacement.[/QUOTE]
If it's only a 3 year deal I think the Yankees become a player, assuming they are able to move Granderson.
pitfallharry219
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Holy shit. Trout, Pujols, Hamilton, Trumbo, Morales...
integralsmatic
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[quote name='kill3r7']If the Angels are able to acquire Dickey they might have a really nice team this year.[/QUOTE]
Its going to take Bourjos and another top prospect to get him. It will really heat up if and when Anibal Sanchez signs.
Its going to take Bourjos and another top prospect to get him. It will really heat up if and when Anibal Sanchez signs.
[quote name='integralsmatic']Its going to take Bourjos and another top prospect to get him. It will really heat up if and when Anibal Sanchez signs.[/QUOTE]
Trumbo, Trout and Hamilton makes Bourjos expendable. I guess most folks are thinking they go after Dickey to prevent the Rangers from getting him. Texas has to make a move NOW. My guess is they go after Upton.
Trumbo, Trout and Hamilton makes Bourjos expendable. I guess most folks are thinking they go after Dickey to prevent the Rangers from getting him. Texas has to make a move NOW. My guess is they go after Upton.
integralsmatic
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[quote name='kill3r7']Trumbo, Trout and Hamilton makes Bourjos expendable. I guess most folks are thinking they go after Dickey to prevent the Rangers from getting him. Texas has to make a move NOW. My guess is they go after Upton.[/QUOTE]
They are going to have to give up everything to get him. After they moved Bauer and acquired Gregorio, Towers has no interest in moving Upton anymore.
They are going to have to give up everything to get him. After they moved Bauer and acquired Gregorio, Towers has no interest in moving Upton anymore.
CaseyRyback
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The second half of last season was so terrible that I am kind of glad the Rangers didn't resign him. He swung at so many shit pitches that it was unbelievable. Also don't think that lineup will give him any more protection to hide that. Beltre ing murdered it the second half and he still stayed in the funk.
Until he is willing to lay off balls out of the zone he ain't worth 25 million over 5 years.
Put Kinsler in the OF and move Olt to 1B and rock out with that.
ing murdered it the second half and he still stayed in the funk. Until he is willing to lay off balls out of the zone he ain't worth 25 million over 5 years.
Put Kinsler in the OF and move Olt to 1B and rock out with that.
[quote name='integralsmatic']They are going to have to give up everything to get him. After they moved Bauer and acquired Gregorio, Towers has no interest in moving Upton anymore.[/QUOTE]
I know Towers is unlikely to move Upton but Texas has some top notch prospects, including IMO the best young SS and SS prospect in the league. If nothing else, I hope they panic and maybe go after Granderson. As a Yankees fan I welcome this.
EDIT: I know they just got Gregorio but he is a glove first SS.
I know Towers is unlikely to move Upton but Texas has some top notch prospects, including IMO the best young SS and SS prospect in the league. If nothing else, I hope they panic and maybe go after Granderson. As a Yankees fan I welcome this.
EDIT: I know they just got Gregorio but he is a glove first SS.
integralsmatic
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[quote name='CaseyRyback']The second half of last season was so terrible that I am kind of glad the Rangers didn't resign him. He swung at so many shit pitches that it was unbelievable. Also don't think that lineup will give him any more protection to hide that. Beltre ing murdered it the second half and he still stayed in the funk.
Until he is willing to lay off balls out of the zone he ain't worth 25 million over 5 years.
Put Kinsler in the OF and move Olt to 1B and rock out with that.[/QUOTE]
didnt he swing poorly due to an injury affecting his vision?
ing murdered it the second half and he still stayed in the funk. Until he is willing to lay off balls out of the zone he ain't worth 25 million over 5 years.
Put Kinsler in the OF and move Olt to 1B and rock out with that.[/QUOTE]
didnt he swing poorly due to an injury affecting his vision?
[quote name='HornyPony']I will be very pissed of if Yankees go after Bourjos or Trumbo.[/QUOTE]
Trumbo maybe, I doubt they have any interest in Bourjos. I think the Yanks are focused on moving Granderson. So maybe Granderson for Trumbo? Although I want to see Granderson get traded to Texas for one of their SS.
Trumbo maybe, I doubt they have any interest in Bourjos. I think the Yanks are focused on moving Granderson. So maybe Granderson for Trumbo? Although I want to see Granderson get traded to Texas for one of their SS.
CaseyRyback
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[quote name='integralsmatic']didnt he swing poorly due to an injury affecting his vision?[/QUOTE]
No. That was something that kept him out later in the season. The excuse was quitting chewing tobacco and how God was testing him.
No. That was something that kept him out later in the season. The excuse was quitting chewing tobacco and how God was testing him.
[quote name='kill3r7']Trumbo maybe, I doubt they have any interest in Bourjos. I think the Yanks are focused on moving Granderson. So maybe Granderson for Trumbo? Although I want to see Granderson get traded to Texas for one of their SS.[/QUOTE]
The reason the Angels would be trading Bourjos or Trumbo is because they have too many outfielders, trading an OF for an OF would make zero sense.
The reason the Angels would be trading Bourjos or Trumbo is because they have too many outfielders, trading an OF for an OF would make zero sense.
[quote name='tcrash247']The reason the Angels would be trading Bourjos or Trumbo is because they have too many outfielders, trading an OF for an OF would make zero sense.[/QUOTE]
I agree but I don't see how else the Yankees could trade for either one of those players.
I agree but I don't see how else the Yankees could trade for either one of those players.
CaseyRyback
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Everyone mentions moving Bourjos, but I don't know if that happens. Josh rarely plays more than 130 games, and they are going to want to DH him some. You factor that in with some rest for some of their other guys, and they could carve out a nice role for him.
[quote name='kill3r7']I agree but I don't see how else the Yankees could trade for either one of those players.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure if the Angels would want to trade either of them they'd either want prospects or a SP, so if the Yankees have any prospects, that's what they would trade. Or they just wouldn't bother trading for an OF, I don't recall them being linked to anyone besides a passing interest in Hamilton. Besides Ichiro, forgot about him.
I'm pretty sure if the Angels would want to trade either of them they'd either want prospects or a SP, so if the Yankees have any prospects, that's what they would trade. Or they just wouldn't bother trading for an OF, I don't recall them being linked to anyone besides a passing interest in Hamilton. Besides Ichiro, forgot about him.
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[quote name='tcrash247']I'm pretty sure if the Angels would want to trade either of them they'd either want prospects or a SP, so if the Yankees have any prospects, that's what they would trade. Or they just wouldn't bother trading for an OF, I don't recall them being linked to anyone besides a passing interest in Hamilton. Besides Ichiro, forgot about him.[/QUOTE]
The Yankees have a few pitching prospect but they are not trading any of them. They are the future and the only way to keep payroll down in 2014.
The Yankees have a few pitching prospect but they are not trading any of them. They are the future and the only way to keep payroll down in 2014.
[quote name='CaseyRyback']Everyone mentions moving Bourjos, but I don't know if that happens. Josh rarely plays more than 130 games, and they are going to want to DH him some. You factor that in with some rest for some of their other guys, and they could carve out a nice role for him.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but you also have aging Pujols on the squad, and he's going to be taking up more and more of those DH spots too, and that's basically his position for the back end of his contract. Especially with Morales playing first or DH for another season or two.
The Angels are basically banking on Pujols and Hamilton providing immediate results. There will be a time in a few years where neither are producing at the levels they're being paid for. That's why the Angels need to hang onto Trumbo, in case something goes wrong. Trumbo is young and Trumbo is only going to get better. To trade him now would be boneheaded, like when the Angels unloaded Napoli to Texas because Scioscia acted like his defense was unsatisfactory or something.
Any space in the outfield needs to belong to Trumbo. Wells just isn't going anywhere, unfortunately. That makes Bourjos is absolutely expendable at this point.
And for the sake of his career, Bourjos needs to find a team where he can play every day. He's been in a "carved out role" of filling in when there were outfielder gaps his whole career with the Angels. But with Pujols (taking up DH spots), Hamilton, Trout and hopefully Trumbo - there just isn't much room. If he can get traded to another team, he'll really have room to grow.
Yeah but you also have aging Pujols on the squad, and he's going to be taking up more and more of those DH spots too, and that's basically his position for the back end of his contract. Especially with Morales playing first or DH for another season or two.
The Angels are basically banking on Pujols and Hamilton providing immediate results. There will be a time in a few years where neither are producing at the levels they're being paid for. That's why the Angels need to hang onto Trumbo, in case something goes wrong. Trumbo is young and Trumbo is only going to get better. To trade him now would be boneheaded, like when the Angels unloaded Napoli to Texas because Scioscia acted like his defense was unsatisfactory or something.
Any space in the outfield needs to belong to Trumbo. Wells just isn't going anywhere, unfortunately. That makes Bourjos is absolutely expendable at this point.
And for the sake of his career, Bourjos needs to find a team where he can play every day. He's been in a "carved out role" of filling in when there were outfielder gaps his whole career with the Angels. But with Pujols (taking up DH spots), Hamilton, Trout and hopefully Trumbo - there just isn't much room. If he can get traded to another team, he'll really have room to grow.
Red Sox sign Ryan Dempster for 2years/$26.5 million.
I like this deal, Dempster's not a sexy signing by any means but he's solid and should be a decent pitcher for them over the next couple of years. Seems like the Sox plan is to remain vaguely competitive over the next few years while not giving up the farm and not giving any long years to free agents. I'm generally on board with that plan, considering that they do have plenty of good talent in the minors which is a couple years out.
I like this deal, Dempster's not a sexy signing by any means but he's solid and should be a decent pitcher for them over the next couple of years. Seems like the Sox plan is to remain vaguely competitive over the next few years while not giving up the farm and not giving any long years to free agents. I'm generally on board with that plan, considering that they do have plenty of good talent in the minors which is a couple years out.
GhostShark
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[quote name='CaseyRyback']The second half of last season was so terrible that I am kind of glad the Rangers didn't resign him. He swung at so many shit pitches that it was unbelievable. Also don't think that lineup will give him any more protection to hide that. Beltre ing murdered it the second half and he still stayed in the funk.
Until he is willing to lay off balls out of the zone he ain't worth 25 million over 5 years.
Put Kinsler in the OF and move Olt to 1B and rock out with that.[/QUOTE]
The biggest problem here is that Kinsler's production (WAR, UZR and all that good stuff) would be subpar for an OF. He would essentially be costing the team money, and probably lots of it if he is in the OF. It'd be less of a loss (but still a loss) if he moved to first base. I fully expect him to be a 1B next season and Olt to be traded sometime soon in a package for a hitter, or perhaps a pitcher.
However, I think Ian is more suited for 1B than OF, but also is better suited for a place in the order that isn't leading off. Leave leading off to Andrus (if he is still on the team) or Gentry/Profar. Maybe his numbers will rise, who knows.
The Rangers FO has had nearly 30 million, maybe more, to work with this offseason and they've done nearly nothing but sign Soria and Soto. Part of me wants to believe that JD has something brewing that we don't know about, but part of me also believes that the Rangers want to bring up their youth this year and see what they truly have. It might not be a rebuilding year, per say, but I wouldn't surprised if you see a drastically different Rangers team across all aspects of the game.
ing murdered it the second half and he still stayed in the funk. Until he is willing to lay off balls out of the zone he ain't worth 25 million over 5 years.
Put Kinsler in the OF and move Olt to 1B and rock out with that.[/QUOTE]
The biggest problem here is that Kinsler's production (WAR, UZR and all that good stuff) would be subpar for an OF. He would essentially be costing the team money, and probably lots of it if he is in the OF. It'd be less of a loss (but still a loss) if he moved to first base. I fully expect him to be a 1B next season and Olt to be traded sometime soon in a package for a hitter, or perhaps a pitcher.
However, I think Ian is more suited for 1B than OF, but also is better suited for a place in the order that isn't leading off. Leave leading off to Andrus (if he is still on the team) or Gentry/Profar. Maybe his numbers will rise, who knows.
The Rangers FO has had nearly 30 million, maybe more, to work with this offseason and they've done nearly nothing but sign Soria and Soto. Part of me wants to believe that JD has something brewing that we don't know about, but part of me also believes that the Rangers want to bring up their youth this year and see what they truly have. It might not be a rebuilding year, per say, but I wouldn't surprised if you see a drastically different Rangers team across all aspects of the game.
CaseyRyback
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[quote name='GhostShark']The biggest problem here is that Kinsler's production (WAR, UZR and all that good stuff) would be subpar for an OF. He would essentially be costing the team money, and probably lots of it if he is in the OF. It'd be less of a loss (but still a loss) if he moved to first base. I fully expect him to be a 1B next season and Olt to be traded sometime soon in a package for a hitter, or perhaps a pitcher.
However, I think Ian is more suited for 1B than OF, but also is better suited for a place in the order that isn't leading off. Leave leading off to Andrus (if he is still on the team) or Gentry/Profar. Maybe his numbers will rise, who knows.
The Rangers FO has had nearly 30 million, maybe more, to work with this offseason and they've done nearly nothing but sign Soria and Soto. Part of me wants to believe that JD has something brewing that we don't know about, but part of me also believes that the Rangers want to bring up their youth this year and see what they truly have. It might not be a rebuilding year, per say, but I wouldn't surprised if you see a drastically different Rangers team across all aspects of the game.[/QUOTE]
I'd agree with some of that. Kinsler would need to hit like he did in 2011 for it to work. Moving him down and moving Profar or Andrus makes a lot of sense.
I have no problem with the youth movement as long as they shore up the bullpen. If Lewis and Feliz come back in the second half they can bolster the rotation and hopefully lead the charge towards a playoff run.
If they make any move on offense I'd like to see them get AJ.
Edit: And I forgot about Wells. I forgot the Angels still had him when discussing subsequent moves. My bad.
However, I think Ian is more suited for 1B than OF, but also is better suited for a place in the order that isn't leading off. Leave leading off to Andrus (if he is still on the team) or Gentry/Profar. Maybe his numbers will rise, who knows.
The Rangers FO has had nearly 30 million, maybe more, to work with this offseason and they've done nearly nothing but sign Soria and Soto. Part of me wants to believe that JD has something brewing that we don't know about, but part of me also believes that the Rangers want to bring up their youth this year and see what they truly have. It might not be a rebuilding year, per say, but I wouldn't surprised if you see a drastically different Rangers team across all aspects of the game.[/QUOTE]
I'd agree with some of that. Kinsler would need to hit like he did in 2011 for it to work. Moving him down and moving Profar or Andrus makes a lot of sense.
I have no problem with the youth movement as long as they shore up the bullpen. If Lewis and Feliz come back in the second half they can bolster the rotation and hopefully lead the charge towards a playoff run.
If they make any move on offense I'd like to see them get AJ.
Edit: And I forgot about Wells. I forgot the Angels still had him when discussing subsequent moves. My bad.
GhostShark
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Yeah, even though I hate him as a person, he is a decent catcher and left-handed bat. And that is something the team terribly needs now that Hamilton is gone.
[quote name='kill3r7']Trumbo maybe, I doubt they have any interest in Bourjos. I think the Yanks are focused on moving Granderson. So maybe Granderson for Trumbo? Although I want to see Granderson get traded to Texas for one of their SS.[/QUOTE]
Eh makes no sense for Angels as they would be trading a cost controlled outfielder for a similar player who is a FA next year.
Hughes/Phelps/Nova for Trumbo would make sense as the Angels need pitching.Though I now expect Angels to pick up Edwin Jackson or even Sanchez.
Eh makes no sense for Angels as they would be trading a cost controlled outfielder for a similar player who is a FA next year.
Hughes/Phelps/Nova for Trumbo would make sense as the Angels need pitching.Though I now expect Angels to pick up Edwin Jackson or even Sanchez.
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