Yeah, but it's almost just as well. The team has been dead in the water ever since Tanaka got injured anyway. The wheels just completely fell off after that. And I still maintain my stance from the beginning of the year that Mark Teixeira's contract is worse than Jason Giambi's was. Teixeira is worse at a significantly younger age than Giambi was. The guy might as well retire at this point.
Anyway, at least everybody can just focus on and celebrate a final week of one of the greatest Yankees of all time...rather than worrying about making a play-in wild card game that they could end up getting crushed in anyway.
And hey, after that...we get to watch the A-Rod Circus again. :lol:
Also...how in the holy hell does Kevin Long still have a job? It just doesn't make sense in any capacity. The guys are either teachable and it's his fault that they're not producing. Or they're "established veterans who know how to hit"...so why do they need a hitting coach?
They brought in a bunch of new players this year...and still had an anemic offense. If you're not going to blame Cashman (which, I don't think you should. He got quality guys...and even the freaking replacement players he's gotten...McCarthy, Capuano, Headly, Young, etc have been serviceable, you have to blame the hitting coach.
I really hope the Rangers end up aligning with the Carolina Mudcats for class A. I would spend a lot of next summer on those shitty hot bleachers. Most of the good prospects are already in Frisco, but with the Rangers getting high picks it could be interesting.
I really hope the Rangers end up aligning with the Carolina Mudcats for class A. I would spend a lot of next summer on those shitty hot bleachers. Most of the good prospects are already in Frisco, but with the Rangers getting high picks it could be interesting.
I read that. Makes more sense for the Braves to align with Carolina geographically, but it isn't like this area is a Braves hotbed. The Bulls being aligned with Tampa and the superstation not running Braves games like they used to has eroded a lot of their local support. Plus a lot of people from the area are northern transplants and those people all like the yanks and the Sox.
My playoff series in the CAG fantasy baseball league just ended in a tie thanks to The Rock getting 2 strikeouts from Aroldis Chapman doing mop-up work leading 7-2 in the bottom of the 9th of the last game of the week. I think I own the tiebreaker due to regular season head to head record, but it's been a nailbiter.
Better than mine. I lost the first round because all my pitchers not named Kershaw or Grienke couldn't last more than 4 or 5 innings. That, and half my offense sleeping and having 4 days of my catchers not starting.
So the Braves fired Frank Wren. They named John Hart interim GM. The rumor is that they're going after Royals GM Dayton Moore, who is a former Assistant GM for the Braves. Hopefully they also fire Fredi Gonzalez soon.
Aside from Gordon and Duffy none of those guys have turned into what they thought they were getting. Almost all their top hitters were supposed to hit with some power and they hit with none.
Glass does hold him back because I do think that the myers deal doesn't get done if he has money to acquire pitching. That said Atlanta doesn't have a super high payroll.
I'm not going to argue that Jeter is the best player ever...or that the "farewell tour" thing isn't overblown. But Goddammit, let people have a good time. Comparing him to freaking Red Ruffing in the 30's and saying "he didn't get a farewell tour!" is infantile. Yes...let's use the Great Depression-WWII era as the barometer of how people should behave today.
Then the stats diatribe. For a guy who knows so much about sports, if Olbermann can't appreciate what it means to make your teammates better, he's a moron. Jeter hustled on every play. He never showed up late. He never got into trouble. The thought is "If the Captain is playing like that, I can't get away with less." Sure, maybe other players had more talent, but look at where A-Rod is right now and look at where Jeter is. That says it all.
Jeter did everything right for 20 years, played the game the right way, and showed a tremendous amount of respect for his fans, his bosses, and the sport itself. What he means to the Yankees (and baseball) cannot be quantified on a stat sheet. He deserves this.
I love Jeter and I hate to see him go, but he should've retired a couple years ago. He's the worst defensive SS in MLB by a mile, and he can't make up for it anymore with his hitting because he's terrible at that now, too.
Not to mention Olbermann fails to acknowledge how many of the guys who led those statistical categories were found out to have taken PEDs. So, yeah...seriously, him.
I love Jeter and I hate to see him go, but he should've retired a couple years ago. He's the worst defensive SS in MLB by a mile, and he can't make up for it anymore with his hitting because he's terrible at that now, too.
Probably, but so what. The Yankees have so many larger mistakes on their roster than Derek Jeter. It seems silly to take issue with a guy who actually did something to earn his status.
The concept behind what he's trying to say isn't necessarily wrong. We've always all known that Jeter is a little overrated. But he's a winner in a huge market. That is going to happen. But what's the point of saying this crap now? Well, I know what the point is. He has a crappy show that is buried on ESPN2, so he wants some buzz, and he got it.
Some of the people he brought up as better Yankees are just laughable. Willie Randolph? Come on. Good player, nice guy. Not better than Derek Jeter. Mike Mussina? Great pitcher, one of the best fielding pitchers ever, but was more dominant when he was with the O's. Not better than Derek Jeter. Red Ruffing? Leave the profession, sir. You have lost any shred of credibility you were clinging to.
If Jeter cared so much about the team why did he play SS when A-Rod was significantly better?
The Jeter love is ridiculous and dumb. The farewell tour is garbage. Just retire like every other player. There is no need to spend a year shilling stuff because you are going to stop playing baseball.
We build this guy up based on a HR he didn't hit and the idiocy of Jeremy Giambi. He was never even the best player at his position. No one will deny he was a quality player but he gets deified because he plays in a market that still cares about baseball and Bristol is so close.
And no one knows if he did it clean. He looks clean but that locker room is full of users. Almost every superstar on that team is a known user.
One last edit. He is also the reason baseball games take 4 hours. The timing of the changes to speed up the game coinciding with his retirement is not coincidental.
If Jeter cared so much about the team why did he play SS when A-Rod was significantly better?
The Jeter love is ridiculous and dumb. The farewell tour is garbage. Just retire like every other player. There is no need to spend a year shilling stuff because you are going to stop playing baseball.
We build this guy up based on a HR he didn't hit and the idiocy of Jeremy Giambi. He was never even the best player at his position. No one will deny he was a quality player but he gets deified because he plays in a market that still cares about baseball and Bristol is so close.
And no one knows if he did it clean. He looks clean but that locker room is full of users. Almost every superstar on that team is a known user.
One last edit. He is also the reason baseball games take 4 hours. The timing of the changes to speed up the game coinciding with his retirement is not coincidental.
If Jeter cared so much about the team why did he play SS when A-Rod was significantly better?
The Jeter love is ridiculous and dumb. The farewell tour is garbage. Just retire like every other player. There is no need to spend a year shilling stuff because you are going to stop playing baseball.
We build this guy up based on a HR he didn't hit and the idiocy of Jeremy Giambi. He was never even the best player at his position. No one will deny he was a quality player but he gets deified because he plays in a market that still cares about baseball and Bristol is so close.
And no one knows if he did it clean. He looks clean but that locker room is full of users. Almost every superstar on that team is a known user.
One last edit. He is also the reason baseball games take 4 hours. The timing of the changes to speed up the game coinciding with his retirement is not coincidental.
Did you post anything about the Chipper Jones farewell tour? I don't remember, but I doubt you did. People did the same, exact thing for Chipper, with all the gifts and all the fawning. But guess what? Fans ate it up, just like they ate up the Jeter stuff.
Yes, Jeter's entire career is all about 2 plays. Pretty much the only reason anyone hypes him up. Doesn't have anything to do with a .308 career postseason average...or the World Series MVP...or Mr. November...or destroying his face against a seat to catch a ball...nah, 2 just 2 moments.
If you're actually gonna throw Jeter under the PED bus, then we might as well just doubt anything anyone did from the late '80s until recently.
If Jeter cared so much about the team why did he play SS when A-Rod was significantly better?
The Jeter love is ridiculous and dumb. The farewell tour is garbage. Just retire like every other player. There is no need to spend a year shilling stuff because you are going to stop playing baseball.
We build this guy up based on a HR he didn't hit and the idiocy of Jeremy Giambi. He was never even the best player at his position. No one will deny he was a quality player but he gets deified because he plays in a market that still cares about baseball and Bristol is so close.
And no one knows if he did it clean. He looks clean but that locker room is full of users. Almost every superstar on that team is a known user.
One last edit. He is also the reason baseball games take 4 hours. The timing of the changes to speed up the game coinciding with his retirement is not coincidental.
LMAO...come on. Are you trying to outdo Olbermann? Most of this doesn't even make any sense.
Sure...let's change positions for the new guy, disrupt the clubhouse, and make the guy an immediate outcast (more than he already was). You're the new man in town. You change. This is common sense. If A-Rod had such a problem with it, he could have just kept his mouth shut, endeared himself to fans, and outplayed Jeter. Unfortunately for him, he was only capable of one of those things...and only some of the time.
I agree with bigdaddybruce...a career is about way more than two plays, but fine...let's look at those plays. ing Tony Torasco wasn't going to catch that ball. The assumption is because he didn't jump, it MUST have been about to drop into his glove. But it wasn't coming in straight down. It was coming in at an angle.
Besides, how many times has "fan interference" been called when there was no contact at all? Torasco didn't even jump for it. There have been way more egregious fan interference cases than that. And sure...let's blame Jeremy Giambi for assuming Jeter wasn't going to be completely out of position making an incredible play. Are you serious?
As for being good and consistent in a tough market, don't undersell it. Would you like a list of star players who have come to NY and completely crumbled like garbage? Hitters come to NY and all of a sudden lose .50-75 points off their career BA's. Pitchers ERA's jump at least a run or more. It has happened over and over and over again. Not everybody can perform in that environment. Jeter did it longer than anyone could have possibly expected. Anybody mocking his .250 BA as a 40 year old is a toolbag.
I can't even address those last two statements. I didn't know they made grapes that sour.
Some of the people he brought up as better Yankees are just laughable. Willie Randolph? Come on. Good player, nice guy. Not better than Derek Jeter. Mike Mussina? Great pitcher, one of the best fielding pitchers ever, but was more dominant when he was with the O's. Not better than Derek Jeter. Red Ruffing? Leave the profession, sir. You have lost any shred of credibility you were clinging to.
They fit his WAR per season argument. I was a little surprised Yogi Berra and Whitey Ford weren't included, but it looks like both their bWAR and fWAR numbers fall a bit short. Yogi is probably Jeter's biggest obstacle to being the #5 all-time Yankee (at least among position players).
If Jeter cared so much about the team why did he play SS when A-Rod was significantly better?
The Jeter love is ridiculous and dumb. The farewell tour is garbage. Just retire like every other player. There is no need to spend a year shilling stuff because you are going to stop playing baseball.
We build this guy up based on a HR he didn't hit and the idiocy of Jeremy Giambi. He was never even the best player at his position. No one will deny he was a quality player but he gets deified because he plays in a market that still cares about baseball and Bristol is so close.
And no one knows if he did it clean. He looks clean but that locker room is full of users. Almost every superstar on that team is a known user.
One last edit. He is also the reason baseball games take 4 hours. The timing of the changes to speed up the game coinciding with his retirement is not coincidental.
Jeter has an ego, which is why the superior player (with the now known PED caveats) switched positions. I did like the point Olbermann made that Jeter continuing to play and bat 2nd, also ego driven, might be part of the reason the Yankees are on the brink of elimination. Not as big as losing Tanaka for 2.5 months, but still a hit here or there, a win here or there and 2 to 3 games out is better than 5.
Also an interesting notion to end his career at home and skip the series in Boston. Mariano Rivera didn't pitch in the final series at Tampa last season, despite a couple potential save situations occurring (1 with someone else getting a save, the other with Petitte getting a CG). Would be a fun way to tweak Boston fans that probably paid an exorbitant sum for tickets to that series, though I imagine a number of people from NY are making the trip.
I don't mind the idea of a farewell tour for major icons, which has been going on for a while (Johnny Bench got gifts in his last visit to some cities back in '83, I've read that Carl Yastrzemski did as well). This article seems to have a decent set of prerequisites for it, and of the players I'm aware of getting one, Ozzie Smith is the only one that played for more than 1 franchise. (Others I know of are Gwynn, Ripken, Chipper, Mariano. I think KC and Milwaukee reciprocated events for Brett and Yount in '93, though I don't know if other cities did things for them.) I don't think I'd object to a short early career stint with another team to disqualify someone, which allows for the Wizard. David Ortiz's time in Minnesota might be pushing it (fewer games but more seasons than Ozzie in San Diego), but if he announces his retirement before a season while still a member of the Red Sox, I wouldn't be surprised if he got one. If Pujols had stayed in St. Louis, definitely. Much as I'd like to see the Philly trio get accolades in other cities, I doubt that would happen. I imagine Rollins will go somewhere else to pad his stats for an outside shot at the HOF, Howard will continue to decline to the point no one will care and Utley is the kind of guy to announce retirement after a season to avoid the spectacle.
There are only a handful of position player superstars where I'd be surprised if news broke that they juiced in the 90s and early 00s, and Jeter is one of them. Always got the impression that he'd never risk doing that.
Jeter has an ego, which is why the superior player (with the now known PED caveats) switched positions. I did like the point Olbermann made that Jeter continuing to play and bat 2nd, also ego driven, might be part of the reason the Yankees are on the brink of elimination. Not as big as losing Tanaka for 2.5 months, but still a hit here or there, a win here or there and 2 to 3 games out is better than 5.
As crazy as this sounds, my belief is that the Yankees decided as an organization that giving Jeter a proper sendoff was more important than making the playoffs this year. I will 100% admit his numbers didn't justify him batting second. But after so many years, why rock the boat? Why create a rift with Jeter? Why upset the fans? Just ride this one out and move on.
The Core Four were such a huge deal in NY...there was no other way to handle it. The only one who could even make an argument that he got remotely "shafted" was Posada...who still believed he could play catcher at 40 years old. Everybody else, they let play as long as they wanted. So, while it might not be the smart decision to let Jeter keep hanging on...it was still probably the right one. This team wasn't winning anything this year anyway.
I am not big on any player getting a farewell tour. I guess I can understand if it's like Cal where he did something no one will ever do again, but I don't think teams should be celebrating an opposing player.
As crazy as this sounds, my belief is that the Yankees decided as an organization that giving Jeter a proper sendoff was more important than making the playoffs this year. I will 100% admit his numbers didn't justify him batting second. But after so many years, why rock the boat? Why create a rift with Jeter? Why upset the fans? Just ride this one out and move on.
The Core Four were such a huge deal in NY...there was no other way to handle it. The only one who could even make an argument that he got remotely "shafted" was Posada...who still believed he could play catcher at 40 years old. Everybody else, they let play as long as they wanted. So, while it might not be the smart decision to let Jeter keep hanging on...it was still probably the right one. This team wasn't winning anything this year anyway.
I can see that line of thinking. I wonder if George would've allowed that.
One thing I've been curious about, was there ever any resistance in the Yankee community to using the term "Core Four" after Petitte went to Houston and came back? I thought it was silly to continue calling them that when one of them was no longer a Yankee lifer. Would it have been different if they hadn't won another title in '09?
Jeter batting 2nd probably had little to no impact on the Yankee failures this year. Who exactly should have been batting 2nd? The entire lineup completely and utterly crapped the bed, outside of Gardner and Ellsbury, who both had serviceable seasons. Nothing amazing. Prado hit well when he got to New York and ended up having to bat in the MIDDLE of the lineup, because everyone else was so awful. Think about that for a moment. The Yankee lineup was so absurdly bad that a man with a career .769 OPS was batting in prime positions, because no one else should.
If you want to argue that Gardner and Ellsbury should have been 1-2, ok, I'll bite. Problem, again, was that the offense was so bad that Ellbsury had to bat 3rd most of the year...
Did you post anything about the Chipper Jones farewell tour? I don't remember, but I doubt you did. People did the same, exact thing for Chipper, with all the gifts and all the fawning. But guess what? Fans ate it up, just like they ate up the Jeter stuff.
Yes, Jeter's entire career is all about 2 plays. Pretty much the only reason anyone hypes him up. Doesn't have anything to do with a .308 career postseason average...or the World Series MVP...or Mr. November...or destroying his face against a seat to catch a ball...nah, 2 just 2 moments.
If you're actually gonna throw Jeter under the PED bus, then we might as well just doubt anything anyone did from the late '80s until recently.
You are really going to try and compare Jeter to Chipper? Chippers retirement wasn't anywhere near as annoying as Jeter. This has to do with Chipper being better and him having an engaging personality. You aren't going to see Jeter saving people in a snowstorm. Jeter gets the love and adulation from playing in NY and he drives a lot of us nuts because of it.
Jeter is like Tiger minus thanksgiving. No one knows if he is all class. The media just force feed us this garbage.
I am not saying Jeter used. Just that people act like he is the bastion of doing everything the right way and we don't know that with certainty.
Also those Yankee teams were more successful because of their amazing pitching than anything else. Also there is a reason why things went downhill when Williams and O'Neill got old. People put it all on Jeter and while he was important he wasn't the driving force on those teams.
I freely admit that I hate the Yankees and that is part of what drives my dislike of what is going on, but I was pretty much the only one supporting A Rod. I also recognize how good those teams were. My main point is that the impact of others on his run seems to get marginalized because Jeter has played as long as he has.
Anyway, what a bitter sweet day for Phil Hughes. He sets the major league record for K/BB ratio, while also losing out on a $500,000 bonus by 1/3rd of an inning.
If Jeter cared so much about the team why did he play SS when A-Rod was significantly better?
The Jeter love is ridiculous and dumb. The farewell tour is garbage. Just retire like every other player. There is no need to spend a year shilling stuff because you are going to stop playing baseball.
We build this guy up based on a HR he didn't hit and the idiocy of Jeremy Giambi. He was never even the best player at his position. No one will deny he was a quality player but he gets deified because he plays in a market that still cares about baseball and Bristol is so close.
And no one knows if he did it clean. He looks clean but that locker room is full of users. Almost every superstar on that team is a known user.
One last edit. He is also the reason baseball games take 4 hours. The timing of the changes to speed up the game coinciding with his retirement is not coincidental.
The man has 3,461 hits. No other Yankee has ever accomplished that feat (keep in mind the Yankees are the most storied franchise in baseball) and in all likelihood no other Yankee will for the next 2 to 3 decades. Sportsmanship and the way one handles himself on and off the field is all parts to being a superstar and a good human being. He's an ambassador for baseball. Being bitter about his farewell tour seems small and petty, to me.
Derek embodied many of the qualities you want in a captain. He lead by example, didn't get in trouble and didn't bad mouth his teammates in the media. Also, his name was never associated with PEDs especially in an era where most superstars were accused of using them. Yes, it is true that, outside of 2006, Jeter was never the best player on his team but then again being the best player on the Yankees is a very tall feat. There is more to being a good player than stats. He provided consistency and leadership. I for one am glad to have seen him play for 20 years and certainly will miss seeing him out there.
P.S. I think Mariano is the greatest of the "core four". I don't expect to see another player in my lifetime pull off what Rivera did.
There are just a lot of reasons Jeter's retirement is significant (tonight's game especially). It will also be the last time Bob Sheppard's legendary voice will be heard in a game...since Jeter has still been using Sheppard's recording to introduce him as he comes to the plate.
So, the voice first heard in Yankee Stadium in 1951, announcing the likes of Joe DiMaggio and Mickey Mantle will be heard for the last time in Yankee Stadium tonight. If you can't respect and appreciate that, you are not a fan of baseball.
The man has 3,461 hits. No other Yankee has ever accomplished that feat (keep in mind the Yankees are the most storied franchise in baseball) and in all likelihood no other Yankee will for the next 2 to 3 decades. Sportsmanship and the way one handles himself on and off the field are all parts to beign a superstar. He's an ambassador for baseball. Being bitter about his farewell tour seems small and petty, to me.
Derek embodied many of the qualities you want in a captain. He lead by example, didn't get in trouble and didn't bad mouth his teammates in the media. Also, his name was never associated with PEDs especially in an era where most superstars were accused of using them. Yes, it is true that, outside of 2006, Jeter was never the best player on his team but then again being the best player on the Yankees is a very tall feat. There is more to being a good player than stats. He provided consistency and leadership. I for one am glad to have seen him play for 20 years and certainly will miss seeing him out there.
P.S. I think Mariano is the greatest of the "core four". I don't expect to see another player in my lifetime pull off what Rivera did.
In addition to all of that, and I think someone mentioned this already, but it must be stated again, Jeter, unlike so many stars, never wilted under the bright lights of the postseason. Look at his career playoff stats. No drop-off. In fact, his career playoff OPS is actually slightly higher than in the regular season.
In addition to all of that, and I think someone mentioned this already, but it must be stated again, Jeter, unlike so many stars, never wilted under the bright lights of the postseason. Look at his career playoff stats. No drop-off. In fact, his career playoff OPS is actually slightly higher than in the regular season.
Yep, because being a HOF player in NY is so easy. Completely ignore the fact that this city (the media) has derailed many a stars' career. I think the fact that Jeter was able to accomplish all of this while playing in NY is much harder than most people give him credit for.
P.S. Just about everyone who is part of the 3,000 hit club has played for at least 20 years.
Heard the 20 year career argument on the radio earlier today. So lame. That camp might have a point if it actually took him 20 years to get to 3000, and he bounced with a ho-hum career average. The man has over 3400 hits and a .309 lifetime average. Come on, guys. Now, it has come down to grasping at any and all straws available.
I agree Jeter is a great player. He had a great career in on e of the biggest markets and was a winner. One of the all time greats, No! And especially this BS I am hearing that he will be the first unanimous first ballot hall of famer. HELL NO!! Let him enjoy his send off, he's not the player he used to be. At least he is not Willie Mays playing Center Field for the Mets level of bad.
Heard the 20 year career argument on the radio earlier today. So lame. That camp might have a point if it actually took him 20 years to get to 3000, and he bounced with a ho-hum career average. The man has over 3400 hits and a .309 lifetime average. Come on, guys. Now, it has come down to grasping at any and all straws available.
It's not a debate on whether he is a great player or not. It's a debate on whether he should retire like a normal great player or if he should be worshipped as a god like he has been this year. If the Yankees want to throw a gazillion celebrations and wear patches, good for them. But few people outside NYC give a damn and I don't see why the other 29 teams have to hold celebrations for him in their home parks.
And no, he's not getting in unanimously into the Hall of Fame because the BBWAA are a bunch of pricks.
As a Red Sox fan even I respect what Jeter has
Brought to the game. Baseball is losing a class act and the sport is in rough shape right now. I have no problem with this farewell tour. Heck I'm even going to Fenway tomorrow night for the occasion (cheaper than Sundays game )
It's not a debate on whether he is a great player or not. It's a debate on whether he should retire like a normal great player or if he should be worshipped as a god like he has been this year. If the Yankees want to throw a gazillion celebrations and wear patches, good for them. But few people outside NYC give a damn and I don't see why the other 29 teams have to hold celebrations for him in their home parks.
And no, he's not getting in unanimously into the Hall of Fame because the BBWAA are a bunch of pricks.
First of all, that's not even what my post was about. I was addressing the 20-year argument that seems to be floating around now.
As far as the celebrations go, sorry, but no one is making anyone do anything. They are doing it because they want to. If you want to argue that teams feel compelled to do it, because they don't want to the dick organization that doesn't, fine. But who is making fans in EVERY ballpark give Jeter a standing ovation? Are Communist party officials threatening them with beatings if they don't? People everywhere care about Jeter. Just because you don't doesn't mean you have to rain on everyone else's parade.
Derek Jeter is Barry Larkin with the bat, minus all of his defense, and plus durability. The durability and defense end up being about a wash.
Jeter is a lot like Kobe Bryant. Very good players for a very long period of time who played on a number of great teams. They're also very overrated, likely because they played for storied franchises in massive media markets.
Probably not a fair comparison for Kobe, though. As much as I hate the Kobe/MJ and Kobe/LeBron comparisons, Kobe's closer to the NBA all-time greats than Jeter is to the MLB all-time greats. Strictly as a player, Jeter is more like Ray Allen or Vince Carter than he is Kobe.
As far as the celebrations go, sorry, but no one is making anyone do anything. They are doing it because they want to. If you want to argue that teams feel compelled to do it, because they don't want to the dick organization that doesn't, fine. But who is making fans in EVERY ballpark give Jeter a standing ovation? Are Communist party officials threatening them with beatings if they don't? People everywhere care about Jeter. Just because you don't doesn't mean you have to rain on everyone else's parade.
They stand out of respect or just being nice. The only ones who really give a damn about Jeter are Yankee fans and Yankee transplants. Oh, and ESPN brainwashees.
Tell me this. If Jeter had the exact same stats, the same amount of titles, the same playoff excellence, but in, say, Minnesota, do you really think ESPN would be fawning all over him the way they are now?
EDIT: Remind me to avoid anything on ESPN until Monday. My god, AM SportsCenter is going to be even more idiotic than it already is.
him.
