4 Teens Could Spend 120 Years in Prison for Violent Rape/Sodomy

[quote name='Koggit']1) the whole argument is absolutely stupid on two levels. if you believe these kids should be tried as adults then you mustn't believe the law should discriminate by age -- or for that matter, by sanity, mental retardation, etc. their lack of capacity for understanding their action (necessary for crime) is indisputable for two reasons.

[/QUOTE]

You posed the question of whether or not the kids understood rape, and I answered it 100% correctly that they did understand rape. To argue otherwise is asinine. No place in my response was I responding to the right and wrongs of charging them as adults.
 
Sadly, Koggit is right.

I know we really want to punish these 4 boys, but how about the dozens of witnesses who saw or heard the repeated sexual assaults? Free pass or not?
 
[quote name='HowStern']Koggit, you have a very skewed view of the justice system. I don't know where you got the idea that a punishment should vary depending on whether or not the perpetrator knew what they were doing was wrong.

Punishments are meant to teach people what they did was wrong. Before you get all riled up chill out and I'll give you a perfect example.

My daughter is 3. She knows she isn't supposed to jump on the furniture. My wife and I have told her a thousand times. But when she gets all full of energy it isn't long before she becomes spider-man and the couch and chair are buildings just like every kid. She's only 3 so she genuinely gets caught up in the moment and forgets what she is doing is wrong and doesn't understand the full seriousness of it that she could get get hurt. So should my wife and I let her get away with it?
No. We give her a time out she gets upset, gets over it, and it helps teach her and gives her time to realize and remember what she did was wrong so she isn't as likely to do it again.[/QUOTE]

First of all, I'd like to point out that I actually agree with Koggit for once on an issue.

HowStern, your daughter is a perfect example. The severity of their situation is far more serious, but it still a relativity good example. Though, think about what you said. You give her a time out, and it helps her learn not to do it again. If you send these boys to jail for 120 years, how will they ever learn not do it again? Well, maybe they'll learn, but they'll never be able to apply what they learned from this experience. They deserve to be punished, that's a given, but they're still children. The beauty of being a child is being able to fuck up and still be given a second chance. They stuck a stick up some boys ass. It's horrible and cruel, but they can still be productive members of society. I'm sure they just thought it was funny, and I'm also sure they knew it was wrong. They'll learn their lesson while they're in jail for 5-20 years, but there's no need to have an excessive punishment such as 120 years. That just puts more (and may I add, unnecessary) burden on the prison system.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Regardless of age, i can't believe these kids didn't know that having a stick shoved up your ass could hurt. It doesn't take much thought to figure it out.[/QUOTE]


seriously, wtf...:roll: even a 5 yo kid would know that causes serious pain to another
 
nice 100% correct assessment of some kids you read a short article about


stern: why are you still babbling, you think we should charge all children as criminal adults for their acts, hold them responsible, okay, fine, i acknowledge your irrational opinion
 
[quote name='Koggit']if you know that you're doing something you should be criminally responsible for it? that's the only requirement?

okay... guess all kids can be tried as adults now.[/QUOTE]
....I'm...not even sure what that is supposed to mean, but based on my understanding of what i think you mean, then yeah.

I mean for fuck sake man, they weren't stringing the kid up by his underwear, they anally raped the kid. I thought i had it bad in school, but that goes beyond anything i've ever heard of. Where the hell do you draw the line between typical school bullying and a criminal act?

If they really don't understand what they did and why it was bad, maybe they should be shown, at least then they'll understand what they did to this poor kid. I guarantee it would be an experience they'd never forget, i know the victim certainly won't.
 
[quote name='Autumn Star']First of all, I'd like to point out that I actually agree with Koggit for once on an issue.

HowStern, your daughter is a perfect example. The severity of their situation is far more serious, but it still a relativity good example. Though, think about what you said. You give her a time out, and it helps her learn not to do it again. If you send these boys to jail for 120 years, how will they ever learn not do it again? Well, maybe they'll learn, but they'll never be able to apply what they learned from this experience. They deserve to be punished, that's a given, but they're still children. The beauty of being a child is being able to fuck up and still be given a second chance. They stuck a stick up some boys ass. It's horrible and cruel, but they can still be productive members of society. I'm sure they just thought it was funny, and I'm also sure they knew it was wrong. They'll learn their lesson while they're in jail for 5-20 years, but there's no need to have an excessive punishment such as 120 years. That just puts more (and may I add, unnecessary) burden on the prison system.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree. Check out my other post above, I said 10 years would be a perfect sentence. It would give them time to learn their lesson and still have a future when they get out. 120 years is nuts and probably just used by the papers to make good headlines.

Koggit, with his irrational view of the justice system, thinks we should let them roam free without even a 5 year sentence because they are kids. So, basically if things were his way, kids could go around comitting atrocities like Hitler upon each other and since they are kids we should let them do it because
we dont send kids to prison for hurting other kids
Click to expand...
according to him.
Eric_Cartman_by_Thomeeczech.jpg
"ha ha ha ha ha made you eat your parents!" "ha ha ha ha ha butt raped you for 2 months!"
 
Alright then.

1. That's fucked up, yay bystander effect.
2. I don't understand why there are any juvenile sentences if minors are just going to be tried as adults (if the problem is that they're "adult" crimes, then why are there juvenile sentences for them?).
3. Man that one kid's mom is a bitch. I wonder why things like this happen.
4. Attorney Tim Taylor, awesome.
 
[quote name='HowStern']Koggit, with his irrational view of the justice system, thinks we should let them roam free without even a 5 year sentence because they are kids.[/QUOTE]

that's totally what i said while advocating we try children as children..

awesome reading comprehension. ace job.
 
[quote name='Koggit']that's totally what i said while advocating we try children as children..

awesome reading comprehension. ace job.[/QUOTE]

Well, please do exlpain what you find to be a fit sentence.
So far all you have said is that they shouldn't go to prison. Elaborate.
 
[quote name='HowStern']Well, please do exlpain what you find to be a fit sentence.
So far all you have said is that they shouldn't go to prison. Elaborate.[/QUOTE]
do i look like judge dredd

no

i'm way more buff

children should be treated as children, our legal system (for good reason) treats children differently, it's moronic to arbitrarily say "i really don't like what you did, so i'm gonna pretend you're an adult for a little while"
 
We can't just let them roam free while they contemplate why what they did was wrong though. It puts more innocent children at risk. We need to show them that they can't act like that. How do we do that?
I say 10 years in custody is fair. Maybe a few in prison, a few in a halfway house, last few on probation. In order to do that they have to be tried as adult because if tried as minors the max punishment is 6 years.
I believe that 6 years isn't enough time as they will be out right around the age 20. Possibly still too young to understand what they did was wrong and probably feeling hostile, instead of repentant, for being put away.
 
So, the same person that thinks fantasy rape games should be banned doesn't think actual 2 month long physical rape should be punished?


1.) If they charged these kids as minors we lose track of them at 18, 21 at the latest. The prosecutor is charging as adult because that is clearly not a long enough sentence. Should they give the whole 120 year sentence? No. Will they? No. 10 years is sufficient and fair but not possible if charged as minors.

2.) By suggesting they should be charged as minors you are suggesting they are free in 4 years. Hardly enough time to make them realize they can't act like that, and on top of that it sends a message to other kids that they will barely do any time if they want to butt rape some kid for 2 months.

Yes, that is exactly what I said, they should receive no punishment at all ever, I totally said that, you're awesome at reading, really great, you should go pro
Click to expand...
Sweet sentence structure.
 
Yes, that is exactly what I said, they should receive no punishment at all ever, I totally said that, you're awesome at reading, really great, you should go pro
 
koggit, i think what people what to know is what you think is a fair sentence for children. youve said that we should treat them differently. ok, but what does that entail... no sentence? 6 months in juvy and a year probation? juvy until theyre 18? im a bit curious myself what you think is just.
 
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[quote name='Koggit']Yes, that is exactly what I said, they should receive no punishment at all ever, I totally said that, you're awesome at reading, really great, you should go pro[/QUOTE]

You aren't one to talk after you put words in my mouth.

At any rate you need to tell us what you would do as punishment/rehabilitation in this situation. So far, all you have done is the Helen Lovejoy "won't someone think of the children" thing.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']koggit, i think what people what to know is what you think is a fair sentence for children. youve said that we should treat them differently. ok, but what does that entail... no sentence? 6 months in juvy and a year probation? juvy until theyre 18? im a bit curious myself what you think is just.[/QUOTE]

there's no solution i'd really like to see. it's an unfortunate situation. what i think is just is irrelevant because that's for a juvenile court to decide, but to humor you i do not feel 6mo in juvy and 1yr probation would be too lenient. i wouldn't feel the situation was just -- there's no fit punishment for children who do something like this. it's like trying to sentence a retard for murder. the punishment, instead of correction and deterrence as we seek in adult court, should be to teach and shape as they develop... it's nearly impossible to administer, and no legal system in the world has come up with a good solution.

i suppose if i were judge dredd i'd force the parents to administer the punishment, which would vary depending on the child, and i don't know anywhere near enough psychology to speculate on what it'd entail.


the overall point isn't whether a sentence is too lenient or too strict, but rather, they are children and we must treat them accordingly regardless of how abhorrent adults find their behavior. we distinguish juvenile from adult for very good reason, children are still developing, and to arbitrarily throw that out because a particular act is exceptionally offensive is extremely irrational. if you think these children should be tried in adult court, then you must be against juvenile court in general, there is no in between of "these kids are responsible for their actions as adults but other kids for other crimes are not".. it's all so ludicrous.

note by "you" i don't necessarily mean you i just mean people
 
No, these are teenagers.. NOT kids.
Teenagers are assholes and they know right from wrong and should be treated as such. fuck, I was a prick when I was 14 years old. Should I have been able to do and say what I wanted? fuck know. I knew what I was doing.

If this was like.. a bunch of 7-8 year olds ...theeennn this would be different. WAY different. But of course, since they are all minors it wouldn't matter..right? :roll:
 
brass tax time, add a third if i'm wrong but there are only two reasons to support trying them as adults:

(a) you believe juvenile court should offer stricter punishments than they do --> valid enough opinion, how strict is too strict? and if no limit, then why distinguish between juvenile court and adult court at all?

(b) you believe 14+ year olds are criminally responsible for rape --> if they're responsible for rape, they're responsible for anything they do ergo all 14+ year olds should be tried in adult court.
 
Have them serve the sentence until they're 18 then make them register as sex offenders. Nothing is more punishing than being registered as a sex offender.
 
[quote name='Koggit']brass tax time, add a third if i'm wrong but there are only two reasons to support trying them as adults:

(b) you believe 14+ year olds are criminally responsible for rape --> if they're responsible for rape, they're responsible for anything they do ergo all 14+ year olds should be tried in adult court.[/QUOTE]
I'll go with the latter. Try them as an adult, let them serve out their sentence in a juvenile facility until they're 18, at which point transfer them to gen pop. Darwinism will handle things, and they'll be eliminated from society in approximately six months.

At 14, you're old enough to know better.
 
these kids are old enough to know right from wrong. i think that laws protecting teens need revision. even though i agree that each case is different i believe that kids who commits certain crimes MUST be charged as adults. (rape, murder and attempted murder being a few) teens shouldnt be given lighter sentences just because of their ages. rape is still rape no matter who did it.

i wonder what else those sickos were up to..
 
[quote name='shelisheli']these kids are old enough to know right from wrong. i think that laws protecting teens need revision. even though i agree that each case is different i believe that kids who commits certain crimes MUST be charged as adults. (rape, murder and attempted murder being a few) teens shouldnt be given lighter sentences just because of their ages. rape is still rape no matter who did it.

i wonder what else those sickos were up to..[/QUOTE]

but why on earth would you give special treatment for something like theft but not more severe crimes? why distinguish?

imo it should be all or nothing.. they either have the same responsibility for their actions as an adult or they do not.

these 14 year olds are tried as adults for rape now, and tomorrow a 16 year old will be tried as a child for stealing a car -- it makes no sense...
 
Kroggit is 100% correct on this.

THESE ARE KIDS.

1. 14 year olds that are capable of doing this to a boy definitely do not need to spend their entire adolescence and early adulthood in a prison being labeled child rapists. I would almost prefer, if one takes out of the equation the boys as human beings, to them being locked up for life as opposed to the 6-10 years most people are screaming for.

2. Kids under the age of 16 (believe it or not the age of consent is not completely arbitrary) brains cannot comprehend the complex issues of sex and especially sexual assault. Their brains literally are not developed enough to understand the meaning they or the other person involved is experiencing. This is why girls 17 and under (sometimes even older) often think that any guy likes them if they fooled around with them or the girl thinks they need to have sex just to make the guy like them. The reason is that usually girls, especially under the age of 16 or 17, are almost incapable of separating sex from relationships and general affection from lust.

3. While the kids knew it was wrong that is not an issue. I am sure they knew it was wrong, but when your brain isn't fully developed right and wrong is not what is difficult (I would almost argue that is easy as the world seems more black and white). The issue is if the boys understood the implications and long term mental-physical damage that their actions could do to themselves, and the 13 year old. I used to punch my sister when I was young-- I KNEW it was wrong but I didn't understand that if I hit her in the right spot I could have killed her, or how these actions could be an underlying cause of anxieties later on in her life. Yes, adults try to explain things to kids and direct them certain ways and away from other things as "good" and "bad" but we as adults we (hopefully) realize that we don't teach these things because we live in that black and white but that these issues are far too complex to explain to them--why something is "good" and something is "bad", that is why we as adults can understand what makes them bad or good and use that to help them to do the "good" and steer them away from the "bad" not just because something inherently right or wrong, but explaining it is something they need realize themselves and is far too complex for a kid/tween to understand. I think i made my point coherent enough?

It feels like some people don't want to learn from these horrible actions and events, but rather; just ignore everyone involved-- lock these disturbed boys away, and tell the younger boy that "justice is served", and go on without understanding what/why this happened and pretend like nothing did happened.

Then in 2 years when something like this happens again we all throw our hands in the air, and say I don't know why this keeps happening...oh well, lock that kid up forever along with the others.
 
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They're not kids. They're monsters.

If you beat, rape, and repeatedly sodomize another student with a hockey stick or broomhandle, you're a fucking monster. The chances of them being completely normal, unaffected "adults" are miniscule at best - this isn't an isolated incident, this shit went on for two months because these sick bastards enjoyed what they were doing.

Sorry, but you forfeit your rights as a decent human being when you stop being a decent human being. They showed no compassion and no remorse for what they did, nor should they be shown any for their actions.

I'm not the leading advocate of corporal punishment, but these four are the poster children for why parents should keep an eye on their kids and do anything within their power to keep them in line. I don't blame the parents completely, but they and everyone else needs to face the fact that these four are severely damaged individuals and need to be kept away from situations where this sort of thing can happen again.
 
[quote name='gareman']
2. Kids under the age of 16 (believe it or not the age of consent is not completely arbitrary) brains cannot comprehend the complex issues of sex and especially sexual assault. Their brains literally are not developed enough to understand the meaning they or the other person involved is experiencing. This is why girls 17 and under (sometimes even older) often think that any guy likes them if they fooled around with them or the girl thinks they need to have sex just to make the guy like them. The reason is that usually girls, especially under the age of 16 or 17, are almost incapable of separating sex from relationships and general affection from lust. [/QUOTE]

Dude, you just contradicted your own comment.
 
[quote name='Koggit']but why on earth would you give special treatment for something like theft but not more severe crimes? why distinguish?[/QUOTE]

I would submit that you are the one who is still a child and does not understand the situation. The victim is under a life sentence, I'm no psychologist but I'm willing to bet he's going to have emotional scars from this for the rest of his life. The excuse that the perpetrators are under 18 by a few years and therefore are the real victims at the hands of the judicial system hold no water for me.

As an adult I can separate out victims and criminals.
 
got to love the people who say the boys should go to jail , but if it was their kid they would be screaming they should be put to death.

got to wonder how many murders you would see if they would take the people on death row and just hang them within 6 months of proving they did it. (got to love how someone can kill someone with 50 people watching then have the balls to say

I did not do it and then get to live in a nice jail cell for 20 years before getting put to death if even at all)


just like the show was on the other night.. two teenagers was throwing rocks off an overpass playing some sort of stupid stripping game.... They have them on camera doing it but then plead they did not do it even though they are saying they are sorry they did it... WTF right there is what is wrong with the legal system.

person kills someone at the point of the sentance the judge hits a button.. floor gives away to a swamp of gators... i think you would see the murder rate fall very quickly. : )
 
[quote name='Koggit'] we distinguish juvenile from adult for very good reason, children are still developing, and to arbitrarily throw that out because a particular act is exceptionally offensive is extremely irrational.[/QUOTE]

These reason juveniles are not usually tried as adult is because there prefrontal cortexes(part of the brain responsible for moral choices, and thinking ahead) are not fully developed(this doesn't happen till the late one's 20). This mean teenagers will tend to make short term rash decisions like "let's steal my parents car", "we don't really need a condom", "I bet I can climb that water tower drunk" and other such stupid decisions young people are famous for. It's not responsible for "Let's anal rape someone until we get caught" that's not teenage stupidity, that's a complete lack of sympathy for others, which is more like psychopathy.
 
[quote name='camoor']I would submit that you are the one who is still a child and does not understand the situation. The victim is under a life sentence, I'm no psychologist but I'm willing to bet he's going to have emotional scars from this for the rest of his life. The excuse that the perpetrators are under 18 by a few years and therefore are the real victims at the hands of the judicial system hold no water for me.

As an adult I can separate out victims and criminals.[/QUOTE]


This. +1

I get the feeling Koggit, and anyone else who believes that since these kids are a couple years younger than 18 they shouldn't be severely punished, does not understand the seriousness of the situation.
Like camoor said the victim got a life sentence. At least these scum bag kids will get a fair trial. The victim did not get any trial in his locker room.
 
[quote name='HowStern']Wow, you are delusional if that's what you got out of what everyone is saying.[/QUOTE]

I honestly wouldn't even bother responding to him anymore. I don't know what "logic" he is using, but I seriously hope he never finds himself on a jury.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']I honestly wouldn't even bother responding to him anymore. I don't know what "logic" he is using, but I seriously hope he never finds himself on a jury.[/QUOTE]

Being on a jury is the safe place in the legal world.
 
Note to self: Next time I want to be an asshole and break the law, give myself the appearance and fake documents that identify me as a 14 year old and have Koggit appointed as a judge for juvenile court.
 
Would somebody please respond to my arguments....

rather than find one time where I said people under 16 can LITERALLY not comprehend the complex emotions involved with sex and that from this,even when more mature, girls that are under 17 (believe it or not, is also under 16 as well) and sometimes beyond;cannot distinguish between love and lust.

It seems to me that after I make a decent well thought out argument people actually get upset that I am using logic on this issue, and then just mock everyone else who has and are dishonest about everything they think and what we have said.

"fine! just let kids do whatever they want!"

Even though all of you know that is not what Kroggit or I (or anyone else who said things in realm) are saying at all.

As for how much would murder and these things drop, if we got my "badass" "in your face" about publicly murdering citizens. It wouldn't a violent government and judicial system perpetuates a violent society. Its like how kids who grow up in a violent home where hitting and beating is a valid punishment then they more often than not, become violent themselves.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hyph_DZa_GQ
 
[quote name='gareman']
2. Kids under the age of 16 (believe it or not the age of consent is not completely arbitrary) brains cannot comprehend the complex issues of sex and especially sexual assault.[/QUOTE]
They knew enough to know it would be more humiliating and painful than a normal beating.


[quote name='gareman']
Their brains literally are not developed enough to understand the meaning they or the other person involved is experiencing. [/QUOTE]
A 14 years brain is developed enough for sympathy(I believe this happens between ages 2-3), and knowing right from wrong, it's not developed enough to always control impulsive action they know are wrong.But raping someone for 2 months is not an impulsive action.

[quote name='gareman']
3. While the kids knew it was wrong that is not an issue. I am sure they knew it was wrong, but when your brain isn't fully developed right and wrong is not what is difficult (I would almost argue that is easy as the world seems more black and white). The issue is if the boys understood the implications and long term mental-physical
damage that their actions could do to themselves, and the 13 year old. I used to punch my sister when I was young-- I KNEW it was wrong but I didn't understand that if I hit her in the right spot I could have killed her, or how these actions could be an underlying cause of anxieties later on in her life. Yes, adults try to explain things to kids and direct them certain ways and away from other things as "good" and "bad" but we as adults we (hopefully) realize that we don't teach these things because we live in that black and white but that these issues are far too complex to explain to them--why something is "good" and something is "bad", that is why we as adults can understand what makes them bad or good and use that to help them to do the "good" and steer them away from the "bad" not just because something inherently right or wrong, but explaining it is something they need realize themselves and is far too complex for a kid/tween to understand. I think i made my point coherent enough?
[/QUOTE]
They may have not understood that the kid would possible be scared for life, but the were taking the actions to the next level they knew rape was worse than hitting, They probably had some idea how much more severally rape is punished than beating, and it was not an isolated incident where things got out of hand, but ongoing and likely premeditated.
 
full circle yet again...

dude...

okay..

gonna be as clear as i can possibly be..

it is your belief that these children hold adult-responsibility for what they've done. okay? nobody can prove one way or the other, nothing's factual, you cannot say "this is justice", you cannot say "they most certainly understood what they did enough to face adult sentencing", none of that is fact, it's your belief and that's that.

now, the only problem with that belief is that if 14 year olds can understand rape and hold adult responsibility for it, then they can understand any crime and hold adult responsibility for it, sexual assault is quite possibly the most complex (morally) of criminal offenses, it is irrational to say these 14 year olds understood rape and are 100% adult responsible for it then turn around tomorrow and claim some 15 year old who stole a car should get juvenile treatment. if 14 year olds are old enough to hold adult responsibility for rape, anyone 14+ holds adult responsibility for any crime.

now if that's your belief and that's why you think they should be tried in adult court, fine, then your argument is either "try everyone 14+ in adult court" or "try everyone in adult court and use a sliding scale for leniency based on age", both of which are valid arguments but not directly applicable to the topic at hand, which is cherry-picking defendants to bear adult responsibility based not on the defendant's class, but rather on the abhorrence of the crime.
 
I'm curious, if the argument for these "kids" innocence was that they did not have a firm grasp of "rape" and "sodomy", and did not understand the full ramifications of their actions, then why wouldn't they keep shoving the hockey stick / broom stick into this poor kid until they either impaled him / ruptured something.

They had to have known what they were doing every time, and did it precise enough with a large/long object that the kid was not gushing blood out of his ass on each occasion, and did not have noticeable bruises on his arms from being held down.

On a side note, what happened to the old days when sick kids would just abuse small animals? Now they're shoving things into the rectums of other kids? What the fuck?

~HotShotX
 
[quote name='Koggit']
you cannot say "they most certainly understood what they did enough to face adult sentencing", none of that is fact, it's your belief and that's that.
[/QUOTE]
Sure I can its called science.(The fact that teenagers don't have devolved prefrontal cortexes is the legal reason for them usually not being tried as an adult, raping some for two months is not explained by an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex.)
[quote name='Koggit']
but rather on the abhorrence of the crime.[/QUOTE]
I think most of us are basing it on the fact that it went on for two months which takes way out of the realm of stupid teenager impulsiveness.
 
[quote name='itachiitachi']They knew enough to know it would be more humiliating and painful than a normal beating.



A 14 years brain is developed enough for sympathy(I believe this happens between ages 2-3), and knowing right from wrong, it's not developed enough to always control impulsive action they know are wrong.But raping someone for 2 months is not an impulsive action.

[/QUOTE]


They can think yea this is wrong and this sucks for this kid but if they have no foresight as to what this will actually do to the boy and themselves in the long term and understand the complexities of what they are doing then that sympathy means nothing more than "this probably sucks a lot worse then when we used to punch him!"
 
[quote name='gareman']
They can think yea this is wrong and this sucks for this kid but if they have no foresight as to what this will actually do to the boy and themselves in the long term and understand the complexities of what they are doing then that sympathy means nothing more than "this probably sucks a lot worse then when we used to punch him!"[/QUOTE]
Do you think they cared what this will do to him, if before they started the victim was like "this will have lasting reprocutions throughout my adult life" they would have be like "really, oh well then you're free to go".
 
[quote name='itachiitachi']Sure I can its called science.(The fact that teenagers don't have devolved prefrontal cortexes is the legal reason for them usually not being tried as an adult, raping some for two months is not explained by an underdeveloped prefrontal cortex.) [/QUOTE]
ty for making it clear you have absolutely no idea why our legal system treats kids differently

yes, primarily due to an underdeveloped frontal lobe (as i mentioned a few dozen posts ago, i believe), as it controls forethought and thereby capacity for judgment, it's precisely why we treat children differently, it's not as if their frontal lobe lets them 'understand' crime or anything, it influences they way they act, it has an enormous effect on empathy and consideration of consequences, it's precisely why this abhorrent act wasn't shocking to the conscious of their peers who witnessed it and it's precisely why, imo, they should not be treated differently

but, regardless, it's all beyond the scope of my point -- why on earth would you say these children understood what they do so they deserve adult punishment but a juvenile thief doesn't? or how about a kid that gets in fights a lot at school? at my school there were quite a few students who got in weekly fights and were eventually expelled -- they weren't sent to jail for several years as an adult would. why not? by your logic, they understood what they were doing, getting in fights like that, bullying others, why not send them to jail for years like we would an adult? why give them special treatment but not these kids?

[quote name='itachiitachi']I think most of us are basing it on the fact that it went on for two months which takes way out of the realm of stupid teenager impulsiveness.[/QUOTE]

its not about impulsiveness, that's retarded, impulse has nothing to do with age or our legal treatment of juveniles, we don't give lighter sentence to juvenile car thieves due to impulsiveness... come the fuck on, jesus christ i hate this thread
 
[quote name='itachiitachi']Do you think they cared what this will do to him, if before they started the victim was like "this will have lasting reprocutions throughout my adult life" they would have be like "really, oh well then you're free to go".[/QUOTE]


No I don't as I think their ability to "care" was little to none due to their immature brains as argued by both you and I. You seem to not think that should hold up in court and I think it does.
 
[quote name='Koggit']ty for making it clear you have absolutely no idea why our legal system treats kids differently

yes, primarily due to an underdeveloped frontal lobe (as i mentioned a few dozen posts ago, i believe), as it controls forethought and thereby capacity for judgment, it's precisely why we treat children differently, it's not as if their frontal lobe lets them 'understand' crime or anything, it influences they way they act, it has an enormous effect on empathy and consideration of consequences, it's precisely why this abhorrent act wasn't shocking to the conscious of their peers who witnessed it and it's precisely why, imo, they should not be treated differently


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That is an interesting point--doesn't it follow from everyone arguing against us that all the kids that witness this over 2months should be tried as adults as well? I mean if someone was raping their daughter repeatedly in front of the mom for two months and she didn't stop it or notify authorities wouldn't the mom as an ADULT she be tried for nearly the same crimes? Since all these 14 year old knew it was wrong and said nothing/did nothing they should be tried as well.
 
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