40gb PS3 $399, no bc - 11/2, $499 80gb, limited bc, now. 56,877 new skus rumored
This is REALLY weird! The comments I've been reading around the internet... I mean... Everyone wanted a cheaper PS3 and no wait- right?
There is no way they could sell the current models without taking it from behind. Sure people can say how much they are losing already per system blah blah blah, but there is only so much they can do without giving the things away.
So the only options are to A) Let the technology get cheaper which could take a while or B) Dumb down the current models to please people right now.
I wonder if people would be happier if they could have either: $449 with BC or $399.
There is no way they could sell the current models without taking it from behind. Sure people can say how much they are losing already per system blah blah blah, but there is only so much they can do without giving the things away.
So the only options are to A) Let the technology get cheaper which could take a while or B) Dumb down the current models to please people right now.
I wonder if people would be happier if they could have either: $449 with BC or $399.
shrike4242
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Here's the interesting question. Once PS3's start having HW failures, such as the 20GB and 60GB w/full BC, what happens if they need a MLB swap?
Do you end up getting what you purchased, a PS3 with full BC, or will you get a SW only setup with the 80GB's MLB, or no BC with the 40GB's MLB?
This should make for some intersting issues as they start having issues over time.
Do you end up getting what you purchased, a PS3 with full BC, or will you get a SW only setup with the 80GB's MLB, or no BC with the 40GB's MLB?
This should make for some intersting issues as they start having issues over time.
[quote name='NamPaehc']This is REALLY weird! The comments I've been reading around the internet... I mean... Everyone wanted a cheaper PS3 and no wait- right?[/QUOTE]
Well, people wanted a cheaper PS3 ... but it's Sony who needed it NOW. I don't care what they cost until MGS4 and Tekken 6 hit. That said, the real problem remains the Bluray drive. That's what's keeping the cost up, that's what's showing marginal-at-best improvements to games, and that's what they absolutely cannot drop. So the other features, which aren't that expensive individually, take the hit. Most of them are fine. Do you really need four USB ports? Doubtful. But BC? Well, it's a loss to a lot of people, myself included. Will it matter to Joe Sony, who just wants a brand name he can recognize and a copy of Madden/GTA? Also doubtful, so it's nothing but smart on Sony's part. But you'd better believe this is a "save costs at the expense of the hardcore to appease the casuals" move as much as anything we've seen from Nintendo.
Well, people wanted a cheaper PS3 ... but it's Sony who needed it NOW. I don't care what they cost until MGS4 and Tekken 6 hit. That said, the real problem remains the Bluray drive. That's what's keeping the cost up, that's what's showing marginal-at-best improvements to games, and that's what they absolutely cannot drop. So the other features, which aren't that expensive individually, take the hit. Most of them are fine. Do you really need four USB ports? Doubtful. But BC? Well, it's a loss to a lot of people, myself included. Will it matter to Joe Sony, who just wants a brand name he can recognize and a copy of Madden/GTA? Also doubtful, so it's nothing but smart on Sony's part. But you'd better believe this is a "save costs at the expense of the hardcore to appease the casuals" move as much as anything we've seen from Nintendo.
[quote name='trq']Well, people wanted a cheaper PS3 ... but it's Sony who needed it NOW. I don't care what they cost until MGS4 and Tekken 6 hit. That said, the real problem remains the Bluray drive. That's what's keeping the cost up, that's what's showing marginal-at-best improvements to games, and that's what they absolutely cannot drop. So the other features, which aren't that expensive individually, take the hit. Most of them are fine. Do you really need four USB ports? Doubtful. But BC? Well, it's a loss to a lot of people, myself included. Will it matter to Joe Sony, who just wants a brand name he can recognize and a copy of Madden/GTA? Also doubtful, so it's nothing but smart on Sony's part. But you'd better believe this is a "save costs at the expense of the hardcore to appease the casuals" move as much as anything we've seen from Nintendo.[/quote]
We're on the same page. I think Sony saw that people wanted it for $399 and said "What do we need to cut to get there?"
I wonder if they got rid of the wireless internet and mangaged to put the PS2 emulation back (ps1 games I think still work) if that would have satified people? Or even tack on an extra $50 or so to help cover the BC?
The main issue I see is for Europe right now, because according the the release, the 40GB will be the only SKU there soon.
I wonder if they'd be bold enough to put the BC back in for the US release of the SKU if it happens.
We're on the same page. I think Sony saw that people wanted it for $399 and said "What do we need to cut to get there?"
I wonder if they got rid of the wireless internet and mangaged to put the PS2 emulation back (ps1 games I think still work) if that would have satified people? Or even tack on an extra $50 or so to help cover the BC?
The main issue I see is for Europe right now, because according the the release, the 40GB will be the only SKU there soon.
I wonder if they'd be bold enough to put the BC back in for the US release of the SKU if it happens.
benjamouth
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Yeah I did want a cheaper PS3, but not a gimped PS3, now I'll have to get one of the more expensive models and you can bet your ass I ain't dropping $500 for the pleasure of playing Lair or Heavenly Sword. Which is a shame cos they might be decent games, but until I have a PS3 I only have the less than stellar review scores to go buy.
But as many have said, I don't suppose the 40 gig PS3 is aimed at me. I think I'll just wait till I can get a PS3 slim for $200 and Little Big Planet for $20.
I wonder how this 40 Gig PS3 will do against the 360 with it's 2 free games this holiday season.
But as many have said, I don't suppose the 40 gig PS3 is aimed at me. I think I'll just wait till I can get a PS3 slim for $200 and Little Big Planet for $20.
I wonder how this 40 Gig PS3 will do against the 360 with it's 2 free games this holiday season.
Dumb move on Sony's part, period. I get that it makes things cheaper, but it massively slashes the game library on a machine that's still hurting for must-have exclusives.
I got my 60 gb so I'm not worried, but I want the PS3 to succeed and I think Sony's just driving people into MS's arms with harebrained decisions like this one.
The only credible justification I can think of is Sony wants a rock-bottom priced Blu-Ray player for the holidays. Even then, why not just slash prices on a standalone without gutting the PS3?
I got my 60 gb so I'm not worried, but I want the PS3 to succeed and I think Sony's just driving people into MS's arms with harebrained decisions like this one.
The only credible justification I can think of is Sony wants a rock-bottom priced Blu-Ray player for the holidays. Even then, why not just slash prices on a standalone without gutting the PS3?
Dr Mario Kart
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He couldnt possibly have a PS2
Dr Mario Kart
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He's aware of the situation, and just said that he would purchase one. One would hope that he would indeed not expect to play PS2 games on it.
BattleChicken
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[quote name='dallow']DMK is right. (did i just say that?)
More average customers care about a lower price, than lack of BC.
This is hardly any kind of doom for Sony.[/quote]
I'm personally on the fence about it.. I think they won't gain much ground from this move.. which will hurt them, but sales will certainly spike at least a little bit for a few months.
On the one hand, Price > all in the US economy... regardless of whether or not that makes sense in the long run, thats how it is.
So, if they release this in the US, a cheaper PS3 with missing features will probobly sell better than the more expensive but superior counterpart... but...
On the other hand, the games still aren't there -- At most there are a handful of games for the PS3 that warrant playing right now. The best game on the PS3 right now is God of War 2? I can totally see that. Without BC, what is there to play?
I played the Ratchet and Clank Future demo at a friend's house.. and its damn good, but not 'i'm buying a PS3 when the game comes out' good.
I'm predicting a bunch of returns on the $400 model when people buy it expecting the same features as the other model, and their copy of Madden 06 doesn't work -- time will tell.
More average customers care about a lower price, than lack of BC.
This is hardly any kind of doom for Sony.[/quote]
I'm personally on the fence about it.. I think they won't gain much ground from this move.. which will hurt them, but sales will certainly spike at least a little bit for a few months.
On the one hand, Price > all in the US economy... regardless of whether or not that makes sense in the long run, thats how it is.
So, if they release this in the US, a cheaper PS3 with missing features will probobly sell better than the more expensive but superior counterpart... but...
On the other hand, the games still aren't there -- At most there are a handful of games for the PS3 that warrant playing right now. The best game on the PS3 right now is God of War 2? I can totally see that. Without BC, what is there to play?
I played the Ratchet and Clank Future demo at a friend's house.. and its damn good, but not 'i'm buying a PS3 when the game comes out' good.
I'm predicting a bunch of returns on the $400 model when people buy it expecting the same features as the other model, and their copy of Madden 06 doesn't work -- time will tell.
Dr Mario Kart
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Just think of it as the core 360. You couldnt have BC at all without the hard drive, right?
There a pool of people who will buy this, and to that end its a good idea.
There a pool of people who will buy this, and to that end its a good idea.
The Mana Knight
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[quote name='metaly']The average consumer has no idea about backwards compatibility and is probably mainly interested in playing new PS3 games anyway. The 40GB model is pretty much perfect for that crowd and should sell systems, which should lead to the PS3 finally having a respectable market share and thus more developer support. I'm excited. I don't see how keeping software emulation in could cost an extra $100, though.[/QUOTE]It cost around $25 the GS and its components, and around $30 to keep the EE and its components. Removing both saves around $50-$55. Removing a few USB ports and card readers brings it up to around $15 maybe. Also, it uses the 65nm cell and RSX I'm told (therefore drawing less current) and cheaper to make (along with a 40GB HDD being cheaper). It may not save $100 (when compared to the 80GB PS3, which I expect to drop down to $500 soon), but I see it saving around $75 maybe.
As for the 60GB pricing, Sony just wants to ditch that model. It has the EE/GS and the old blu-ray disc diodes (which costs $100 to make, now they costs $8 to make). It will be phased out and they'll stick with 40GB/80GB.
Here's how I see the SKU in the future, and why I feel removing BC in it isn't bad. Let's just say in 2009, someone wants to buy a PS3 to play FFXIII and many other new games. There should be a wide variety of PS3 games by then, so there won't be a big need to have BC just to have games to play (unless you are one who goes back to older games, but you'd probably buy the SKU with BC). By at least having WiFi, you have a pretty good console for playing PS3 games. Not having card readers and PS2 BC doesn't hurt playing PS3 games at all. You can still download stuff from the PS Store. You can buy a USB hub if you want more connections. Basically, this will be a good SKU to have when the PS3 gets cheap (due to a wide variety of games and it has what you need).
As for the 60GB pricing, Sony just wants to ditch that model. It has the EE/GS and the old blu-ray disc diodes (which costs $100 to make, now they costs $8 to make). It will be phased out and they'll stick with 40GB/80GB.
Here's how I see the SKU in the future, and why I feel removing BC in it isn't bad. Let's just say in 2009, someone wants to buy a PS3 to play FFXIII and many other new games. There should be a wide variety of PS3 games by then, so there won't be a big need to have BC just to have games to play (unless you are one who goes back to older games, but you'd probably buy the SKU with BC). By at least having WiFi, you have a pretty good console for playing PS3 games. Not having card readers and PS2 BC doesn't hurt playing PS3 games at all. You can still download stuff from the PS Store. You can buy a USB hub if you want more connections. Basically, this will be a good SKU to have when the PS3 gets cheap (due to a wide variety of games and it has what you need).
BattleChicken
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[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']Just think of it as the core 360. You couldnt have BC at all without the hard drive, right?
There a pool of people who will buy this, and to that end its a good idea.[/quote]
Thats a good point - However, someone who bought a core system can easily upgrade their core to have a HDD. because of the parts they are removing, you cannot decide to upgrade your PS3 to have full BC.
Shrike brought up a great point about warranty failures on the PS3. If you have a 60 gig unit, how will they replace it, if they discontinued your hardware revision? In that sense, I view it as a different ballgame -- I don't think that gutting features to save costs will serve Sony well in the long run
But your main point, that it will move units, is [FONT="]absolutely [/FONT]correct. PS3 sales will go up.
There a pool of people who will buy this, and to that end its a good idea.[/quote]
Thats a good point - However, someone who bought a core system can easily upgrade their core to have a HDD. because of the parts they are removing, you cannot decide to upgrade your PS3 to have full BC.
Shrike brought up a great point about warranty failures on the PS3. If you have a 60 gig unit, how will they replace it, if they discontinued your hardware revision? In that sense, I view it as a different ballgame -- I don't think that gutting features to save costs will serve Sony well in the long run
But your main point, that it will move units, is [FONT="]absolutely [/FONT]correct. PS3 sales will go up.
Dr Mario Kart
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They can upgrade to BC by buying a $99 or less PStwo. You can even put it next to the PS3 and pretend its a 32x or Sega CD or something.
[quote name='NamPaehc']There is no way they could sell the current models without taking it from behind. Sure people can say how much they are losing already per system blah blah blah, but there is only so much they can do without giving the things away.[/QUOTE]
They should bend over in take it in the behind. Just like they asked gamers who weren't videphile nerds to take it in the behind by charging $600 because in included a bluray player that the vast majority of people don't give a shit about/can't use because they don't have an HDTV.
They should bend over in take it in the behind. Just like they asked gamers who weren't videphile nerds to take it in the behind by charging $600 because in included a bluray player that the vast majority of people don't give a shit about/can't use because they don't have an HDTV.
benjamouth
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[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']They can upgrade to BC by buying a $99 or less PStwo. You can even put it next to the PS3 and pretend its a 32x or Sega CD or something.[/quote]
PS3 - now featuring "ultimate compatability", the PS3 is now compatable with all video games ever made. Ultimate Compatability is achieved via the PS3's unrivalled ability to function correctly while sitting next to any other console.
I wonder how much they pay at Sony PR.
PS3 - now featuring "ultimate compatability", the PS3 is now compatable with all video games ever made. Ultimate Compatability is achieved via the PS3's unrivalled ability to function correctly while sitting next to any other console.
I wonder how much they pay at Sony PR.
shrike4242
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[quote name='BattleChicken']Thats a good point - However, someone who bought a core system can easily upgrade their core to have a HDD. because of the parts they are removing, you cannot decide to upgrade your PS3 to have full BC.
Shrike brought up a great point about warranty failures on the PS3. If you have a 60 gig unit, how will they replace it, if they discontinued your hardware revision? In that sense, I view it as a different ballgame -- I don't think that gutting features to save costs will serve Sony well in the long run
But your main point, that it will move units, is [FONT="]absolutely [/FONT]correct. PS3 sales will go up.[/quote]That's the thing I'm most concerned about. If my PS3 goes face first in the dirt and it's the system board, what's going to happen?
I can see it now, they fix my 60GB PS3 with the system board out of a 80GB system, and they send me a PS2 Slim with the repaired system?
s
Shrike brought up a great point about warranty failures on the PS3. If you have a 60 gig unit, how will they replace it, if they discontinued your hardware revision? In that sense, I view it as a different ballgame -- I don't think that gutting features to save costs will serve Sony well in the long run
But your main point, that it will move units, is [FONT="]absolutely [/FONT]correct. PS3 sales will go up.[/quote]That's the thing I'm most concerned about. If my PS3 goes face first in the dirt and it's the system board, what's going to happen?
I can see it now, they fix my 60GB PS3 with the system board out of a 80GB system, and they send me a PS2 Slim with the repaired system?
s
johnnypark
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I think removing it will have a really negative effect mainly because this is the 4th model in less than a year (and possibly a total of 5 packages if the 80GB goes down in price and drops Motorstorm), all of which - except for the 40GB - have BC.
I have a feeling a lot of the people holding out for a lower price probably know someone w/ a PS3, as the # of units sold just keeps going up, most of whom are probably aware it plays the old games. It finally hits less than 1/2 a grand (you know I never thought I'd make a statement like that referring to a
ing console) and the 2,000+ titles that were already playable on it is cut down to less than 100, 1/2 of which are crap or ports?
I don't care how cheap the PS2 is, how many people have sold their PS2 to help pay for the cost of a PS3? Gamestop has even had promotions for trading them in towards a PS3. Speaking of Gamestop... how many self-righteous employees do you think are going to misinform people about BC on the 40GB model? I know it's not everyone who works there, but I almost always hear something retarded or flat out wrong about a system or a game release when I'm in there. I'll stop there, since I know how many threads are devoted to that topic. But oh man, it hurts my head just thinking about it.
[quote name='benjamouth']PS3 - now featuring "ultimate compatability", the PS3 is now compatable with all video games ever made. Ultimate Compatability is achieved via the PS3's unrivalled ability to function correctly while sitting next to any other console.
[/quote]
I didn't know Phil Harrison posted on CAG!
I have a feeling a lot of the people holding out for a lower price probably know someone w/ a PS3, as the # of units sold just keeps going up, most of whom are probably aware it plays the old games. It finally hits less than 1/2 a grand (you know I never thought I'd make a statement like that referring to a
ing console) and the 2,000+ titles that were already playable on it is cut down to less than 100, 1/2 of which are crap or ports?I don't care how cheap the PS2 is, how many people have sold their PS2 to help pay for the cost of a PS3? Gamestop has even had promotions for trading them in towards a PS3. Speaking of Gamestop... how many self-righteous employees do you think are going to misinform people about BC on the 40GB model? I know it's not everyone who works there, but I almost always hear something retarded or flat out wrong about a system or a game release when I'm in there. I'll stop there, since I know how many threads are devoted to that topic. But oh man, it hurts my head just thinking about it.
[quote name='benjamouth']PS3 - now featuring "ultimate compatability", the PS3 is now compatable with all video games ever made. Ultimate Compatability is achieved via the PS3's unrivalled ability to function correctly while sitting next to any other console.
[/quote]
I didn't know Phil Harrison posted on CAG!
I'm really confused about this. Didn't they already spend the money on the software BC? They don't need to make it better. So why on earth would they keep it out of the system.
Not that it makes a huge difference to a lot of people, I understand, but what is the pro to outweigh the con of taking it out all-together? Seems like just a waste of already-spent cash.
Not that it makes a huge difference to a lot of people, I understand, but what is the pro to outweigh the con of taking it out all-together? Seems like just a waste of already-spent cash.
H.Cornerstone
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[quote name='benjamouth']I question if BC is a big deal to people or not, as Wombat eloquently put it in the CAGcast this week "Right now, God of War 2 is the best game on the PS3"
I deffo won't be buying the 40 Gig version now, I want BC and there will need to be some genuinely AAA titles on the PS3 to make me drop $500 on one.
I wonder if BC is gonna be fazed out entirely, on all models.[/quote]
That's a very unfair statement, as God of War is in contention for Game of the Year, also What game in the first year of Xbox 360 was better than Ninja gaiden Black, Halo 1, 2, Jade empire, Forza or KOTOR 1 and 2?
I deffo won't be buying the 40 Gig version now, I want BC and there will need to be some genuinely AAA titles on the PS3 to make me drop $500 on one.
I wonder if BC is gonna be fazed out entirely, on all models.[/quote]
That's a very unfair statement, as God of War is in contention for Game of the Year, also What game in the first year of Xbox 360 was better than Ninja gaiden Black, Halo 1, 2, Jade empire, Forza or KOTOR 1 and 2?
Dr Mario Kart
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If Phil posted here, we'd have some real gems:
"Backwards compatibility, as you know from PlayStation One and PlayStation 2, is a core value of what we believe we should offer. And access to the library of content people have created, bought for themselves, and accumulated over the years is necessary to create a format. PlayStation is a format meaning that it transcends many devices -- PSOne, PS2, and now PS3" - Phil Harrison, Sony, December 2006.
"I think we wouldn't take that strategy. We wouldn't create confusion" - Phil Harrison on having multiple hardware options, Sony, August 2005.
"Backwards compatibility, as you know from PlayStation One and PlayStation 2, is a core value of what we believe we should offer. And access to the library of content people have created, bought for themselves, and accumulated over the years is necessary to create a format. PlayStation is a format meaning that it transcends many devices -- PSOne, PS2, and now PS3" - Phil Harrison, Sony, December 2006.
"I think we wouldn't take that strategy. We wouldn't create confusion" - Phil Harrison on having multiple hardware options, Sony, August 2005.
johnnypark
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[quote name='daroga']I'm really confused about this. Didn't they already spend the money on the software BC? They don't need to make it better. So why on earth would they keep it out of the system.
Not that it makes a huge difference to a lot of people, I understand, but what is the pro to outweigh the con of taking it out all-together? Seems like just a waste of already-spent cash.[/quote]
I read on another site that despite software emulation/BC, there was a graphics chip or something which was still needed, they had originally only dropped the Emotion Engine. That still doesn't make sense to me, though, since the PS3 is probably more than capable of completely emulating the PS2. Here's to trying to Craigslist an older model, since BC was more than 1/2 the reason I'd even remotely consider getting one.
Not that it makes a huge difference to a lot of people, I understand, but what is the pro to outweigh the con of taking it out all-together? Seems like just a waste of already-spent cash.[/quote]
I read on another site that despite software emulation/BC, there was a graphics chip or something which was still needed, they had originally only dropped the Emotion Engine. That still doesn't make sense to me, though, since the PS3 is probably more than capable of completely emulating the PS2. Here's to trying to Craigslist an older model, since BC was more than 1/2 the reason I'd even remotely consider getting one.
[quote name='johnnypark']I read on another site that despite software emulation/BC, there was a graphics chip or something which was still needed, they had originally only dropped the Emotion Engine. That still doesn't make sense to me, though, since the PS3 is probably more than capable of completely emulating the PS2. Here's to trying to Craigslist an older model, since BC was more than 1/2 the reason I'd even remotely consider getting one.[/quote]
You like in the UK?
You like in the UK?
benjamouth
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[quote name='H.Cornerstone']That's a very unfair statement, as God of War is in contention for Game of the Year, also What game in the first year of Xbox 360 was better than Ninja gaiden Black, Halo 1, 2, Jade empire, Forza or KOTOR 1 and 2?[/quote]
Funny, I'm reading back my quote and can find no mention of the Xbox or Xbox 360.
I'll answer your question with a question, what currently available PS3 game is better than God of War 2 ?
EDIT - Actually Oblivion was better than all of the Xbox games you mention.
Funny, I'm reading back my quote and can find no mention of the Xbox or Xbox 360.
I'll answer your question with a question, what currently available PS3 game is better than God of War 2 ?
EDIT - Actually Oblivion was better than all of the Xbox games you mention.
[quote name='johnnypark']I read on another site that despite software emulation/BC, there was a graphics chip or something which was still needed, they had originally only dropped the Emotion Engine. That still doesn't make sense to me, though, since the PS3 is probably more than capable of completely emulating the PS2. Here's to trying to Craigslist an older model, since BC was more than 1/2 the reason I'd even remotely consider getting one.[/quote]I suppose that makes sense. But, as you said, they couldn't get that SUPERPOWERFUL machine to run PS1 & 2 games? Really?
H.Cornerstone
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[quote name='daroga']I suppose that makes sense. But, as you said, they couldn't get that SUPERPOWERFUL machine to run PS1 & 2 games? Really?[/quote]
Exactly my thinking, if they can get most every PSX game to work, why not PS2 games?
Exactly my thinking, if they can get most every PSX game to work, why not PS2 games?
johnnypark
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[quote name='NamPaehc']You like in the UK?[/quote]
No, I was referring to the 80GB model which lost the EE and uses software emulation for the CPU instead. I'd actually forgotten the Euro 60GB was the same way, but that doesn't change anything.
Man, Europeans are are really getting screwed on this one. At least here in the US there's a wealth of older systems available that support it, and are sometimes cheaper than even the new 40GB will be.
No, I was referring to the 80GB model which lost the EE and uses software emulation for the CPU instead. I'd actually forgotten the Euro 60GB was the same way, but that doesn't change anything.
Man, Europeans are are really getting screwed on this one. At least here in the US there's a wealth of older systems available that support it, and are sometimes cheaper than even the new 40GB will be.
[quote name='Halo05']What confuses me is why Sony can't use software BC in these new, cheaper, 40 gig PS3s. I mean, it has a HDD to hold the software, it has the same processor as the US 80 GB models that use software BC. This is just... odd.[/quote]
That's really the question.
They've ALREADY invested the money in developing a software solution for backwards compatibility. It's ALREADY implemented in PS3s that are on store shelves.
They have nothing to gain by excluding it, because it's already been developed. I could understand if they didn't want to spend any more money in updating it, but why not include it in its current, mostly working state?
Perplexing.
That's really the question.
They've ALREADY invested the money in developing a software solution for backwards compatibility. It's ALREADY implemented in PS3s that are on store shelves.
They have nothing to gain by excluding it, because it's already been developed. I could understand if they didn't want to spend any more money in updating it, but why not include it in its current, mostly working state?
Perplexing.
benjamouth
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[quote name='johnnypark']
Man, Europeans are are really getting screwed on this one. At least here in the US there's a wealth of older systems available that support it, and are sometimes cheaper than even the new 40GB will be.[/quote]
So hard it makes our eye's water, I mean the French and Germans deserve it, but not us plucky Brits
Man, Europeans are are really getting screwed on this one. At least here in the US there's a wealth of older systems available that support it, and are sometimes cheaper than even the new 40GB will be.[/quote]
So hard it makes our eye's water, I mean the French and Germans deserve it, but not us plucky Brits
CrimsonPaw
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Like you guys, I have to laugh at the complete up that is Sony this generation. I enjoy my PS3, but mostly BECAUSE of the BC it provides (God of War, Okami, Beyond Good and Evil, MGS, Tomba II, etc.); they are completely ing themselves by removing the BC.
Considering the PS2, in MY OPINION, has the strongest library to date I can't understand the logic behind removing that option .... what aing joke, I'm so glad I got my 60GB when I did. I'm sure down the line they'll be releasing a 25GB model with BC, no USB, and a clown nose.
up that is Sony this generation. I enjoy my PS3, but mostly BECAUSE of the BC it provides (God of War, Okami, Beyond Good and Evil, MGS, Tomba II, etc.); they are completely ing themselves by removing the BC.Considering the PS2, in MY OPINION, has the strongest library to date I can't understand the logic behind removing that option .... what a
ing joke, I'm so glad I got my 60GB when I did. I'm sure down the line they'll be releasing a 25GB model with BC, no USB, and a clown nose.whiptcracker
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[quote name='H.Cornerstone']That's a very unfair statement, as God of War is in contention for Game of the Year, also What game in the first year of Xbox 360 was better than Ninja gaiden Black, Halo 1, 2, Jade empire, Forza or KOTOR 1 and 2?[/QUOTE]
Not sure what that has to do with anything but Oblivion, PGR3, Gears of War (just barely before then end of the 1st year), etc. But Halo 2 is still one of the more popular Live games and is backwards compatible on the 360 out of the box. Also those games you mentioned on the Xbox weren't released in the 360's first year, so I'm not really sure what point you were trying to make there.
There are still good games coming out on the PS2, and the system is still showing that it's profitable. Spending money on the R&D to add BC to the PS3 then stripping it out seems like an odd move to me. While I know it will boost short term sales I honestly wonder if the confusion will cause consumer backlash towards the system. They've talked a lot about backwards compatibility, and I think the average Sony consumer expects the playstation system to be BC. Unless they put a sticker on it or something I think they're going to generate some bad PR from this.
Not sure what that has to do with anything but Oblivion, PGR3, Gears of War (just barely before then end of the 1st year), etc. But Halo 2 is still one of the more popular Live games and is backwards compatible on the 360 out of the box. Also those games you mentioned on the Xbox weren't released in the 360's first year, so I'm not really sure what point you were trying to make there.
There are still good games coming out on the PS2, and the system is still showing that it's profitable. Spending money on the R&D to add BC to the PS3 then stripping it out seems like an odd move to me. While I know it will boost short term sales I honestly wonder if the confusion will cause consumer backlash towards the system. They've talked a lot about backwards compatibility, and I think the average Sony consumer expects the playstation system to be BC. Unless they put a sticker on it or something I think they're going to generate some bad PR from this.
The Mana Knight
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[quote name='daroga']I suppose that makes sense. But, as you said, they couldn't get that SUPERPOWERFUL machine to run PS1 & 2 games? Really?[/QUOTE]The PS1 emulator has already been complete long ago and the PS3 cell can run it. With the PS2, it has nothing to do with whether the PS3 cell can handled it, it all comes down to the difficulty of emulating both the EE and GS. The EE was already extremely difficult to code for, and emulating alone is pretty difficult. Along with that, emulating the functions of the GS isn't exactly easy either. If PS3 was going to do BC without the GS/EE, every single PS2 game would have to be emulated individually as a driver (like the 360), and it would take forever getting the BC up to snuff. There have been a few PS2 games which can run without the GS/EE from emulators made by amateurs, but that number is like 5% or less. With MS, making Xbox BC games wasn't as bad because the selection of Xbox games is no where near as big as PS2, and PS2 games were made on a much more complicated architecture. Emulating the EE and GS is exactly like emulate the Saturn architecture, which is already pretty difficult and why there's no good Saturn emulator out there (The ones there are don't run every game and still have some issues with some games).
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Exactly my thinking, if they can get most every PSX game to work, why not PS2 games?[/QUOTE]All along, there has been ZERO PS1 chips within the PS3. They already have an emulator for PS1 that can run on just about any platform. It was in development several years ago. With PS2, it's not techically possible yet to make software to emulate BOTH the GS and EE with at least 50% compatible.
[quote name='johnnypark']No, I was referring to the 80GB model which lost the EE and uses software emulation for the CPU instead. I'd actually forgotten the Euro 60GB was the same way, but that doesn't change anything.
Man, Europeans are are really getting screwed on this one. At least here in the US there's a wealth of older systems available that support it, and are sometimes cheaper than even the new 40GB will be.[/QUOTE]40GB is coming to the U.S. too. The only reason we got the 60GB PS3 with EE/GS was because the software emulated EE wasn't ready until March.
As for the pricing, The 360 pricing in Euro is 349 Euros for the Premium and 449 Euros for the Elite. Replace Euro with $ and you have the U.S. pricing. PS3 has been priced the same way, at 599 Euros at launch, dropped to 499 Euros (same as $499 in the U.S., although the exchange rate makes it look more expensive) and a 399 Euro 40GB model (which will be $399 in the U.S.).
[quote name='H.Cornerstone']Exactly my thinking, if they can get most every PSX game to work, why not PS2 games?[/QUOTE]All along, there has been ZERO PS1 chips within the PS3. They already have an emulator for PS1 that can run on just about any platform. It was in development several years ago. With PS2, it's not techically possible yet to make software to emulate BOTH the GS and EE with at least 50% compatible.
[quote name='johnnypark']No, I was referring to the 80GB model which lost the EE and uses software emulation for the CPU instead. I'd actually forgotten the Euro 60GB was the same way, but that doesn't change anything.
Man, Europeans are are really getting screwed on this one. At least here in the US there's a wealth of older systems available that support it, and are sometimes cheaper than even the new 40GB will be.[/QUOTE]40GB is coming to the U.S. too. The only reason we got the 60GB PS3 with EE/GS was because the software emulated EE wasn't ready until March.
As for the pricing, The 360 pricing in Euro is 349 Euros for the Premium and 449 Euros for the Elite. Replace Euro with $ and you have the U.S. pricing. PS3 has been priced the same way, at 599 Euros at launch, dropped to 499 Euros (same as $499 in the U.S., although the exchange rate makes it look more expensive) and a 399 Euro 40GB model (which will be $399 in the U.S.).
[quote name='The Mana Knight']The PS1 emulator has already been complete long ago and the PS3 cell can run it. With the PS2, it has nothing to do with whether the PS3 cell can handled it, it all comes down to the difficulty of emulating both the EE and GS. The EE was already extremely difficult to code for, and emulating alone is pretty difficult. Along with that, emulating the functions of the GS isn't exactly easy either. If PS3 was going to do BC without the GS/EE, every single PS2 game would have to be emulated individually as a driver (like the 360), and it would take forever getting the BC up to snuff. There have been a few PS2 games which can run without the GS/EE from emulators made by amateurs, but that number is like 5% or less. With MS, making Xbox BC games wasn't as bad because the selection of Xbox games is no where near as big as PS2, and PS2 games were made on a much more complicated architecture. Emulating the EE and GS is exactly like emulate the Saturn architecture, which is already pretty difficult and why there's no good Saturn emulator out there (The ones there are don't run every game and still have some issues with some games). [/quote]Pardon my ignorance. What's the GS?
The Mana Knight
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[quote name='daroga']Pardon my ignorance. What's the GS?[/QUOTE]Graphics Synthesizer. I'm not 100% sure how it was used in PS2 games, but basically it was the graphics chip for the PS2, designed by Sony themselves I believe (instead of having nVIDIA make the RSX for PS3).
It's strange because the EE was made to interface with the GS and no other chip (meaning Sony just can't use the RSX instead and expect it to do the exact same thing right off the bat). Although the EE was mostly being utilized when developing PS2 games, the GS is still needed.
It's strange because the EE was made to interface with the GS and no other chip (meaning Sony just can't use the RSX instead and expect it to do the exact same thing right off the bat). Although the EE was mostly being utilized when developing PS2 games, the GS is still needed.
PenguinMaster
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Sony has no excuse for not being able to emulate a PS2 entirely using software on a PS3. Microsoft was able to emulate an Xbox (which is much more powerful than a PS2, so presumably harder to emulate) fairly well on an Xbox 360.
mykevermin
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[quote name='benjamouth']So hard it makes our eye's water, I mean the French and Germans deserve it, but not us plucky Brits [/QUOTE]
Eh, someone's gotta pay for bringing the world HP Sauce and Lady Sovereign.
[/QUOTE]Eh, someone's gotta pay for bringing the world HP Sauce and Lady Sovereign.
OK so if the $400 ps3 did have bc, who in their right mind would buy the 80 gig with motorstorm?
Its not a matter of taking it out because they lose money on that ps3, its a matter of taking it out so that it doesnt up their other SKUs. Its made many of us double guess the value of the $400 ps3, and so yes it has worked.
The old bait and switch, come in to get the new $400 ps3 and then find out for only $100 more u can get more hard drive space and bc! What a steal!
Its not a matter of taking it out because they lose money on that ps3, its a matter of taking it out so that it doesnt
up their other SKUs. Its made many of us double guess the value of the $400 ps3, and so yes it has worked.The old bait and switch, come in to get the new $400 ps3 and then find out for only $100 more u can get more hard drive space and bc! What a steal!
bread's done