8 year-old boy dies after accidentally shooting himself with Uzi at gun show

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The federal ATF is expected in Westfield today to aid local police in investigating the accidental death of an 8-year-old boy who was killed yesterday after firing an Uzi submachine gun while attending a gun show.
The boy, identified as Christopher Bizilj, was firing the Uzi when he lost control, forcing it upwards and back, causing him to shoot himself in the head, said Westfield Police Lt. Hipolito Nunez. Bizilj of Ashford, Conn., was under the supervision of a certified instructor at the gun expo at the Westfield Sportman’s Club when he was shot.
The annual machine gun show is advertised as a free-for-all for gun enthusiasts, and has created discord among some club members, said longtime club member Bob Greenleaf.
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http://news.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1128071&srvc=home&position=emailed
WTF

8 year-olds with machine guns?

I am all for gun rights but I wish people would remember that guns are not toys.
 
Same here, I'm all for gun rights, even as a liberal, but damnit, there are physical and mental limitations that need to be enforced with guns!

If you physically cannot handle a gun or its recoil accurately, or are too stupid to understand that they can be used to kill you or others, you should not be allowed to use it.

The following quote sums this situation up perfectly:
“To let an 8-year-old boy fire an Uzi is the height of stupidity,” said Greenleaf
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and the follow advertisement for the gun show should depict perfectly the level of stupidity of those running it:
“No age limit or licenses required to shoot machine guns, handguns, rifles or shotguns!!!”
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and the final nail in the coffin (forgive the pun), glorifies the idiotic "guns ablazin" mantra that makes many liberals deem gun restrictions a good idea:

“You will be accompanied to the firing line with a certified instructor to guide you, But You Are In Control - Full Auto Rock And Roll.”
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Nothing more American than chugging a beer and firing a fully automatic. WOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!! /sarcasm

~HotShotX
 
And people wonder why some folks want guns banned. It's stupid shit like this that just pours fuel on the fire.
 
It's pretty tragic. What 8 year old boy would say to the opportunity. This kids dad is a moron. I fired a class III SMG for the first time at 14 and even with instruction it was a challenge (I was already 6'1 at the time).

UZI's, even to experienced professionals, are volatile and difficult to handle as most sub-machine guns on full auto.

[quote name='JolietJake']And people wonder why some folks want guns banned. It's stupid shit like this that just pours fuel on the fire.[/quote]

FYI- Class III weapons (like any fully automatic weapon) are de facto banned since only those manufactured before 1986 can be sold by one civilian to another. Which also requires ATF approval and an FFL; limiting class III ownership to serious collectors and gun store owners. It also fixes the dwindling pool of available weapons.

Shows like this are pretty much the only way the average joe can ever legally fire one now, unless you know someone who already owns one.
 
Do gun shows typically let you fire a weapon while the show is open to the public? What's to stop some psycho from signing up to test a gun, then go apeshit out on the show floor, firing up the place in an attempt to steal merchandise, or create random acts of violence?
 
[quote name='JolietJake']It still gives anti-gun advocates an example to point to. Guns are guns to most people.[/quote]

That's exactly why anti-gun activists aren't worth listening to; and why gun owners and second amendment advocates have so little tolerance for them. It's like trying to have a conversation about the sub-prime mortgage market with your average cable guy.
They can't get past the existing lay-of the land and only want to focus on the veneer that is their perception of reality, e.g. "it's wall-street," "guns are bad," "all drugs are bad. . . "

I am not saying that all second amendment advocates are fully aware of the subtleties and nuances of gun ownership either (obviously).
 
This is a prime example of why no one in the civilian sector, apart from law enforcement, should be allowed to have guns.

And as shieryda said, some lunatic at a gunshow could have a heyday. Though, it would be ironic.
 
[quote name='shieryda']Do gun shows typically let you fire a weapon while the show is open to the public? What's to stop some psycho from signing up to test a gun, then go apeshit out on the show floor, firing up the place in an attempt to steal merchandise, or create random acts of violence?[/quote]

I'm pretty sure they have to show a photo ID and pay a small fee to handle the gun.

That stops most crazies, right?
 
[quote name='shieryda']Do gun shows typically let you fire a weapon while the show is open to the public? What's to stop some psycho from signing up to test a gun, then go apeshit out on the show floor, firing up the place in an attempt to steal merchandise, or create random acts of violence?[/quote]


[quote name='crystalklear64']This is a prime example of why no one in the civilian sector, apart from law enforcement, should be allowed to have guns.

And as shieryda said, some lunatic at a gunshow could have a heyday. Though, it would be ironic.[/quote]
Depends on what you mean buy a "gun show." Most "gun shows" don't have live weapons firings. They are large sales shows of mostly used firearms, ammunition, accessories, collectables and paraphernalia. Someone going "ape-shit" with any weapon (gun, knife, home-made bomb) is a possibility anywhere. Doing so at a "gun show" with thousands of other guns and people who really know how to use them is probably not a place where a criminal would go on a "spree" for very long. Criminals and psychopaths alike generally prefer gun free "fish-in-a-barrel" locals like schools for stuff like that, resistance is minimal there.

There are plenty in law-enforcement that I would prefer not to have firearms and plenty of civilians that I would prefer to see armed to the teeth over them.
 
[quote name='h3llbring3r']Depends on what you mean buy a "gun show." Most "gun shows" don't have live weapons firings. They are large sales shows of mostly used firearms, ammunition, accessories, collectables and paraphernalia. Someone going "ape-shit" with any weapon (gun, knife, home-made bomb) is a possibility anywhere. Doing so at a "gun show" with thousands of other guns and people who really know how to use them is probably not a place where a criminal would go on a "spree" for very long. Criminals and psychopaths alike generally prefer gun free "fish-in-a-barrel" locals like schools for stuff like that, resistance is minimal there.

There are plenty in law-enforcement that I would prefer not to have firearms and plenty of civilians that I would prefer to see armed to the teeth over them.[/quote]

some evidence to back this up!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNuRQmvykwk
 
Okay, what the hell. Why the fuck do you give an 8-year-old a loaded gun? What parents in their right mind would let that kid fire an Uzi? I don't give a shit about supervision or "trained experts", you don't give a kid a gun.

And an Uzi? Let's be real here, there is no way that kid could have had the strength or even the grip to be able to handle that weapon. The recoil alone on that thing is a bitch to handle.

I feel real bad that the kid died during this, but his parents have nobody to blame but themselves for even remotely thinking that this was a good idea.
 
[quote name='Regian']Okay, what the hell. Why the fuck do you give an 8-year-old a loaded gun? What parents in their right mind would let that kid fire an Uzi? I don't give a shit about supervision or "trained experts", you don't give a kid a gun.

And an Uzi? Let's be real here, there is no way that kid could have had the strength or even the grip to be able to handle that weapon. The recoil alone on that thing is a bitch to handle.

I feel real bad that the kid died during this, but his parents have nobody to blame but themselves for even remotely thinking that this was a good idea.[/quote]
I was shooting rimfires at six, at a range under close adult supervision. They didn't exactly "give" this kid a gun. However, I agree that these circumstances, a fully automatic short-barrelled machine gun in the hands of a eight year old, are moronic no matter who is watching or instructing.
 
Well I guess his parents probably should have learned to put more points into his strength stats before sending him out of vault 101. It just goes to show you throwing all your points into luck is never a good idea...
 
[quote name='Regian']Okay, what the hell. Why the fuck do you give an 8-year-old a loaded gun? What parents in their right mind would let that kid fire an Uzi? I don't give a shit about supervision or "trained experts", you don't give a kid a gun.

And an Uzi? Let's be real here, there is no way that kid could have had the strength or even the grip to be able to handle that weapon. The recoil alone on that thing is a bitch to handle.

I feel real bad that the kid died during this, but his parents have nobody to blame but themselves for even remotely thinking that this was a good idea.[/quote]
Beat me to it. And like h3llbring3r I was handling guns at that age, but they were .22 rifles and double barreled shotguns at a range with my dad and a licensed firearms instructor. The first time I fired a handgun I was 13 and it was at a range. The first and only time I fired an automatic weapon it was an MP5 at a military base when I was 19, so you can imagine I was being watched like a bloody hawk there. You'll probably notice a trend there: every time I was being properly supervised by licensed professionals who were in total control of the situation. Letting a kid hold a loaded uzi at a gun show is asking for trouble; that instructor should have known better and frankly I'm surprised no one else was injured.
 
I know the pundits and critics and gun enthusiasts are all over this story, but I would be interested in hearing from the parent's mouth who they blame.
 
[quote name='SoonerMatt']Beat me to it. And like h3llbring3r I was handling guns at that age, but they were .22 rifles and double barreled shotguns at a range with my dad and a licensed firearms instructor. The first time I fired a handgun I was 13 and it was at a range. The first and only time I fired an automatic weapon it was an MP5 at a military base when I was 19, so you can imagine I was being watched like a bloody hawk there. You'll probably notice a trend there: every time I was being properly supervised by licensed professionals who were in total control of the situation. Letting a kid hold a loaded uzi at a gun show is asking for trouble; that instructor should have known better and frankly I'm surprised no one else was injured.[/quote]

Yeah, perhaps I should've rephrased: You don't give a really young kid an automatic weapon. Hope I didn't offend either of you on that.

I know that some kids do have parents who train them when it comes to rifles for hunting and such. I actually knew a kid in middle school who participated in shooting competitions with his father.
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']This is a prime example of why no one in the civilian sector, apart from law enforcement, should be allowed to have guns.

And as shieryda said, some lunatic at a gunshow could have a heyday. Though, it would be ironic.[/QUOTE]


This is stupid on many levels. I will always have a gun. I rarely shoot it but will if I have to.
 
If you've never fired a fully automatic weapon; you're missing out.

As for this story, it's not even worth commenting on the stupidity here. It's like having a "NASCAR DRIVEATHON" event where kids can drive a racecar around a track at 200+mph. It's ok, as long as they have an instructor in the passenger seat!
 
[quote name='Regian']Yeah, perhaps I should've rephrased: You don't give a really young kid an automatic weapon. Hope I didn't offend either of you on that.

I know that some kids do have parents who train them when it comes to rifles for hunting and such. I actually knew a kid in middle school who participated in shooting competitions with his father.[/quote]
No worries, I got what you were saying. That "licensed instructor" still should have known better; you always start teaching people to handle firearms with long barrels first, they're much less likely to hurt themselves or others. While I'm very much an advocate for more gun control, I own two shotguns and a rifle and understand the importance of firearm education.
 
[quote name='RedvsBlue']Well I guess his parents probably should have learned to put more points into his strength stats before sending him out of vault 101. It just goes to show you throwing all your points into luck is never a good idea...[/quote]

:applause: Well said.
 
[quote name='VipFREAK']This is pretty hilarious.[/quote]
Not really. I am pretty dark and cynical shit- but a dad watching his son blow his own head off is pretty horrific.

I had a friend (15) who was fatally shot by a trespasser in Columbus, Ga during hunting season; Seeing your kid get shot and die is pretty fucking terrible.

What's even worse is the futile scramble with the body, even when you know its too late and pointless to do anything.

It can strip you of your humanity.
 
I've never gone to a gun show, thank god... but anyway...

Question... Prior to the kid shooting himself.

Umm... Public venue, ummm... Gun lock?

Umm... Public venue, ummm... Loaded gun?

Umm... Public venue, ummm... Certified instructor?

Umm... How many times or how long has it been since we started becoming aware of guns and kids as well as safety around guns?

Dokie Okie...

Questions... After the kid shot himself

How... ?

Questions... Serious

So, what would've happened if it wasn't a kid but say a "terrorist" or a psycho or... I mean lets GTA it up! Yee Haw!
 
Yeah, I wouldn't call this hilarious at any time. Like hellbringer said, it's tragic. The kid's dad is the head of the ER at a hospital in Connecticut. I don't think he ever thought his son would be in a position like that. He probably snapped and just wanted someone to save his boy no matter how long he hadn't had a pulse or been breathing. I'd be in the same boat if something happened to me.
 
[quote name='VipFREAK']I've never gone to a gun show, thank god... but anyway...

Question... Prior to the kid shooting himself.

Umm... Public venue, ummm... Gun lock?

Umm... Public venue, ummm... Loaded gun?

Umm... Public venue, ummm... Certified instructor?

Umm... How many times or how long has it been since we started becoming aware of guns and kids as well as safety around guns?

Dokie Okie...

Questions... After the kid shot himself

How... ?

Questions... Serious

So, what would've happened if it wasn't a kid but say a "terrorist" or a psycho or... I mean lets GTA it up! Yee Haw![/quote]

I don't follow most of your post, but like I said before: I can think of no place I would rather be (except maybe the south lawn of the Whitehouse, where I once saw a man jump the fence and wow, who knew there were so many hidden armed guards) if a terrorist or psycho wanted to go on a rampage than at a gun show. A few hundred (mostly) well trained gun owners with thousands of guns, the response would be quick and final as opposed to that happening at an airport, park, public school or college where any armed response would be delayed (if it happened at all) by the handful armed security that might or might not be anywhere near. Usually the assailants kill themselves before someone even attempts to stop them.

People rob banks because that is where the money is and people go on armed rampages at offices, schools and public places because that's where they are likely to meet the least resistance.
 
[quote name='lordwow']I hope the terrorists don't read that and cancel their attack on the big gun show![/quote]
The first post in this thread to make me chuckle. Seriously, would you try and rob a gunstore or even worse a gun show? You would have a better chance of robbing the police station, there are less guns and fewer armed people.
 
[quote name='h3llbring3r']The first post in this thread to make me chuckle. Seriously, would you try and rob a gunstore or even worse a gun show? You would have a better chance of robbing the police station, there are less guns and fewer armed people.[/quote]


:roll:

I disagree 100% with your reasoning. Your ability to pretend that owning and knowing how to operate a gun is somehow linked to intelligence is offensive.

And its completely utterly foolish to compare a bunch of people with guns to a police station. Difference being one group is trained to prevent people from dying and only using force to save others while the other is just a random group of people who happen to know how to fire guns.

In your dream world apparently knowing how to operate a gun turns you into some type of high grade super hero. If someone tried to shoot up a gun show, yes he would most likely be killed before he had time to take out a lot of people. But guess what? He wouldnt have to because you can bank on the poor judgment of stupid people to finish the job and shoot each other as they all try desperately to be the hero but are not trained to break down a situation and find a threat.


People are not against guns so much as they are against letting any dumbass have a gun. If this case does anything it should scream out the fact that most humans are fucking stupid and that at the very least we should have some type of judgment test before letting someone have a gun. Since last time I checked there were still rasict, closed minded, quick to anger people in the world.


Again its not so much that people are against guns themselves but more the easy access to them by any nut job. And to be honest you are already to over the top to be allowed a gun. Because once you get in the frame of mind that "I can do a better job at being a cop beacuse I am such a bad ass with my gun" you are already to ignorant to be allowed to have one. If you think you can do a better job shooting people then go join the army so they will at least teach you to hit the right person.

Pfft, you should rob a police station because it would be easier than a gun show? Are you fucking kidding me?:roll:
 
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[quote name='Soodmeg']:roll:

I disagree 100% with your reasoning. Your ability to pretend that owning and knowing how to operate a gun is somehow linked to intelligence is offensive.

And its completely utterly foolish to compare a bunch of people with guns to a police station. Difference being one group is trained to prevent people from dying and only using force to save others while the other is just a random group of people who happen to know how to fire guns.

In your dream world apparently knowing how to operate a gun turns you into some type of high grade super hero. If someone tried to shoot up a gun show, yes he would most likely be killed before he had time to take out a lot of people. But guess what? He wouldnt have to because you can bank on the poor judgment of stupid people to finish the job and shoot each other as they all try desperately to be the hero but are not trained to break down a situation and find a threat.


People are not against guns so much as they are against letting any dumbass have a gun. If this case does anything it should scream out the fact that most humans are fucking stupid and that at the very least we should have some type of judgment test before letting someone have a gun. Since last time I checked there were still rasict, closed minded, quick to anger people in the world.


Again its not so much that people are against guns themselves but more the easy access to them by any nut job. And to be honest you are already to over the top to be allowed a gun. Because once you get in the frame of mind that "I can do a better job at being a cop beacuse I am such a bad ass with my gun" you are already to ignorant to be allowed to have one. If you think you can do a better job shooting people then go join the army so they will at least teach you to hit the right person.

Pfft, you should rob a police station because it would be easier than a gun show? Are you fucking kidding me?:roll:[/quote]

I don't mind guns, I just don't want stupid people to have guns.

Last time I checked, there are too many stupid people in the world.

I don't like the word control, but more like Gun responsibility, and not alot of people have that.

I can wield a gun, carry it, respect it, fire it, does that mean I should have one?... no.

When will we learn that a gun is not a sport but a weapon to kill.
 
[quote name='Soodmeg']:roll:

I disagree 100% with your reasoning. Your ability to pretend that owning and knowing how to operate a gun is somehow linked to intelligence is offensive.

And its completely utterly foolish to compare a bunch of people with guns to a police station. Difference being one group is trained to prevent people from dying and only using force to save others while the other is just a random group of people who happen to know how to fire guns.

In your dream world apparently knowing how to operate a gun turns you into some type of high grade super hero. If someone tried to shoot up a gun show, yes he would most likely be killed before he had time to take out a lot of people. But guess what? He wouldnt have to because you can bank on the poor judgment of stupid people to finish the job and shoot each other as they all try desperately to be the hero but are not trained to break down a situation and find a threat.


People are not against guns so much as they are against letting any dumbass have a gun. If this case does anything it should scream out the fact that most humans are fucking stupid and that at the very least we should have some type of judgment test before letting someone have a gun. Since last time I checked there were still rasict, closed minded, quick to anger people in the world.



Pfft, you should rob a police station because it would be easier than a gun show? Are you fucking kidding me?:roll:[/quote]

Okay, first off I never said or even implied that owning a gun allotted you any intellegence (at all) or super powers. If you read my posts earlier in the thread you will see that I make quite the opposite assertion. While I tongue and cheek said "you would have a better chance" not should rob a police station (as you asserted).

I have never even implied any of the things you claim.

I take great offense at you putting words in my mouth and trying to read something between the lines that isn't even hinted at.

However, as many a police officer has told me they rarely stop crimes, just investigate and report. You affect the degree to which you are a victim by the choices you make.

Don't paint me as some guy with a BS "cowboy mentality," someone may chose not to arm themselves (I respect that decision) but don't condemn me for trying to keep myself prepared for the potential of an armed conflict with an assailant. I am well aware of the grim reality of guns as I have been and seen it from both sides.

[quote name='xycury']I don't mind guns, I just don't want stupid people to have guns.

Last time I checked, there are too many stupid people in the world.

I don't like the word control, but more like Gun responsibility, and not alot of people have that.

I can wield a gun, carry it, respect it, fire it, does that mean I should have one?... no.

When will we learn that a gun is not a sport but a weapon to kill.[/quote]

You might find this surprising but I agree with this 100%, and I wish we could be more descriminating with who could and could not have access to firearms.
 
My opinion: we permit guns and gun ownership in our society. Firearm-related fatalities are a sometimes-intentional, sometimes-unintentional side effect of having this right as citizens.

So no shock, no surprise, no outrage on my part. This is the cost we pay for the freedoms we decide to have.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']My opinion: we permit guns and gun ownership in our society. Firearm-related fatalities are a sometimes-intentional, sometimes-unintentional side effect of having this right as citizens.

So no shock, no surprise, no outrage on my part. This is the cost we pay for the freedoms we decide to have.[/quote]

I don't think the majority of people support 8 year-olds being allowed to fire automatic weapons. Seriously, I've heard of things like that happening in remote parts of Africa but it's absolutely shocking to see it in America
 
[quote name='crystalklear64']This is a prime example of why no one in the civilian sector, apart from law enforcement, should be allowed to have guns.[/quote]

That's a ridiculous statement. By your logic a single event is reason enough to prevent guns from being in the hands of civilians. As a rebuttal here is an instant of law enforcement having a close call.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aSJgcpqePk

There is one of a guy actually getting shot in the head when police used a gun as a club, but I'm not posting that.

The fact is there will never be a cure for stupid, and wearing a badge doesn't put someone above stupid.

That being said I don't own a gun. I've been around them due to my father being in the military and in responsible hands 8 year olds don't shoot guns and die.
 
That was fucking hilarious, but ya know what it needs a guy to really make the point.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUsXmloCWzQ[/media]
 
You guys know the weird part, it occurred in the town of Westfield, MA...which is the town bordering the town I live in. This story has covered the local news every day since it has occurred. :(
 
[quote name='VipFREAK']That was fucking hilarious, but ya know what it needs a guy to really make the point.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUsXmloCWzQ[/media][/quote]


:applause:

Guns + stupid = failure.


I don't know why anyone didn't stop them.... (in reguards to the OP's story)
 
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