Any advice on taking advantage of other people's misery?

fatherofcaitlyn

fatherofcaitlyn

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My wife works for the second largest employer in Louisville.

Yesterday, they decided to lay off over 1,000 people.

My wife's department is unaffected, but no one knows the future.

For a brief, glorious moment, she realized losing her job would spell financial doom for our family.

Then, American Idol came on and only 17 spots were left in the top 24.

I want to extend that moment for a year or two to have her help our family get out of debt permanently.

Any ideas other than the constant fear of losing everything to motivate her?
 
More importantly, why were you watching American Idol?

Also, I find that lies help with motivation. For instance, "Getting our family out of debt will make you look 10 years younger."
 
[quote name='javeryh']If she's working then what is the problem?[/QUOTE]

The problem is that he wants to make sure that while she is still working that they are aggressively getting rid of debts instead of sitting on them in case she gets laid off in the future.
 
Refresh us again on your employment situation before we help you decide on how to maintain pressure on your wife to support your family...
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']The problem is that he wants to make sure that while she is still working that they are aggressively getting rid of debts instead of sitting on them in case she gets laid off in the future.[/QUOTE]

Oh, I get it now. I was under the mistaken impression that it is basic common sense to aggressively get rid of debt all the time. Don't buy what you can't afford. It's not that hard.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']The problem is that he wants to make sure that while she is still working that they are aggressively getting rid of debts instead of sitting on them in case she gets laid off in the future.[/QUOTE]

Correct. We're both working full time. My employer cut my pay effectively by $1 or $2 a hour because of the "challenging economic environment".

Before, we needed ~92% of our pay and dropping to stay afloat. Now, we're around ~94% of our pay and dropping to stay afloat.

Of course, there is about 20% of our pay used on frivolous items.
 
[quote name='javeryh']Oh, I get it now. I was under the mistaken impression that it is basic common sense to aggressively get rid of debt all the time. Don't buy what you can't afford. It's not that hard.[/QUOTE]

You should move to America.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Before, we needed ~92% of our pay and dropping to stay afloat. Now, we're around ~94% of our pay and dropping to stay afloat.

Of course, there is about 20% of our pay used on frivolous items.[/QUOTE]

94% is way too high and borderline irresponsible - especially with the two of you working. What if something unexpected comes up? I could never live like that. 20% on frivolous items is also way too high. What are you constantly buying? Reign it in!!

[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']You should move to America.[/QUOTE]

This is what pisses me off about this country - everyone is buried in debt and living it up without a care in the world. I've got no debt (other than a reasonable mortgage), some money in the bank and I live well below my means - the "problem" is that I'm not having as much fun as I could be having relative to all of the irresponsible people out there.
 
Yea, living that tight just means you have to tighten the belt a little more. Sure you can try and find ways to motivate yourself and all, but if "financial ruin" doesnt do it, I doubt Simon Cowell will be a better motivator. Point is, you know the problem, you just have decide that you want to fix it. In fact your better off than a lot of people who need 110% to stay afloat and dont have a "frivolous items" budget. Suck it up and do something about it.
 
Anybody else find it funny that Lionel Hutz is arguing with Mr. Burns? Classic...

Back on topic, get rid of those frivolous expenses and use the money to pay the bills. But what does Idol have to do with it?
 
I always liked both arguments. Really, the secret to staying out of debt is as simply of not spending so much on things you really dont need.

But on the other hand you cant over look that never in our nations history have we had young adults start out in such a deep hole. Average college grad has what, 20 to 30 grand in debt? And with most entry level jobs going to vets willing to take a pay cut it simply, "living within your mean." Might be a understatement.

Hell most college grad dont even have means as the popularity of slave labor internships make most kids go further into debt simply to get a shot at the ol foot in the order. No one has yet told them that the majority of the time they will not be hired like the days of yesteryear.
 
[quote name='tankass']Yea, living that tight just means you have to tighten the belt a little more. Sure you can try and find ways to motivate yourself and all, but if "financial ruin" doesnt do it, I doubt Simon Cowell will be a better motivator. Point is, you know the problem, you just have decide that you want to fix it. In fact your better off than a lot of people who need 110% to stay afloat and dont have a "frivolous items" budget. Suck it up and do something about it.[/QUOTE]

His point is--what can he do to motivate his wife to tighten her belt and quit wasting money. He wants to be frugal and pay it off, but she's not cooperating, so he was asking for advice on how to motivate her. He's posted before about her wasting money, not paying the bills etc.

On that front, I don't know what to tell them. She's an adult and parent just like him. If she's not fiscally responsible, and is materialistic still, she probably always will be as long as there is money coming in. I doubt anything short of a bankrupty/dose of poverty will get her to change. Which you can't wish for because of the kids involved.
 
[quote name='javeryh']

This is what pisses me off about this country - everyone is buried in debt and living it up without a care in the world. I've got no debt (other than a reasonable mortgage), some money in the bank and I live well below my means - the "problem" is that I'm not having as much fun as I could be having relative to all of the irresponsible people out there.[/QUOTE]

This says the lawyer making 6 figures.
 
Its all about budgeting and living within your means, it doesn't matter if you make 25k a year or 120k a year
 
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[quote name='Dead of Knight']This says the lawyer making 6 figures.[/QUOTE]

Why does his income matter? There are many people who make well below six figures that can manage their money just fine, and know how to not live beyond their means. Using the line "live in America" is a fucking cop out and everyone here knows it. Learn how to control your spending.
 
[quote name='javeryh'] basic common sense[/QUOTE]

:rofl:
It's long dead, when did they thaw you out Grandad ?

[quote name='encendido5']Anybody else find it funny that Lionel Hutz is arguing with Mr. Burns? Classic...[/QUOTE]

I hadn't until you pointed it out, nice one.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']His point is--what can he do to motivate his wife to tighten her belt and quit wasting money. He wants to be frugal and pay it off, but she's not cooperating, so he was asking for advice on how to motivate her. He's posted before about her wasting money, not paying the bills etc.

On that front, I don't know what to tell them. She's an adult and parent just like him. If she's not fiscally responsible, and is materialistic still, she probably always will be as long as there is money coming in. I doubt anything short of a bankrupty/dose of poverty will get her to change. Which you can't wish for because of the kids involved.[/QUOTE]

I agree. I'm kind of shocked to hear that you know you are spending 94% of your income (if I understand your situation correctly), and that your wife does not understand how irresponsible that is. It sounds like you will have to be serious with her and explain directly why this is a problem and why there is no good reason for it. Give her some points to consider:

-She is an adult, so she (meaning her family) should be self-sufficient. That includes handling unexpected expenses that might come up in the future, like medical emergencies, injuries, damages to car and home, family emergencies, etc. It is not really reasonable or responsible to expect that her parents or some other family members are going to cover these things if they come up. It's also pretty scary to think that if there is an accident in your family, you could be destitute within a month or two.

-She has children (again, I'm assuming), so in addition to being able to handle emergency situations, she should be planning at least a little bit for their futures. That could mean a lot of things, but usually that means having money put away, either to use for college or starter homes or inheritance or whatever.

-She wants to retire someday (also assuming). This won't be possible without planning and saving. Not much more to say other than that. And retirement is pretty expensive if you want to actually do anything.

And you could probably come up with some more things to talk with her about that are more relevant to your family. The point is you need to make this a serious issue for her because your family's finances are important, and they should be a priority for her. This should be the real reason she is working, not because she wants to buy frivolous things. Financial stability may allow her to do that, but if you aren't stable it isn't responsible to buy things you don't really need.

If that doesn't work, I suggest convincing her to talk to a financial manager (assuming you haven't done this already). It would be a good idea anyway, because you sound like you are living on thin margins already. But a financial manager should be able to scare you and her into trying to fit into a budget if you want these things, and will try to plan a bit for savings and retirement.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']My wife works for the second largest employer in Louisville.

Yesterday, they decided to lay off over 1,000 people.

My wife's department is unaffected, but no one knows the future.

For a brief, glorious moment, she realized losing her job would spell financial doom for our family.

Then, American Idol came on and only 17 spots were left in the top 24.

I want to extend that moment for a year or two to have her help our family get out of debt permanently.

Any ideas other than the constant fear of losing everything to motivate her?[/QUOTE]

Tape American Idol and replay the hell out of it?

[quote name='javeryh']94% is way too high and borderline irresponsible - especially with the two of you working. What if something unexpected comes up? I could never live like that. 20% on frivolous items is also way too high. What are you constantly buying? Reign it in!!



This is what pisses me off about this country - everyone is buried in debt and living it up without a care in the world. I've got no debt (other than a reasonable mortgage), some money in the bank and I live well below my means - the "problem" is that I'm not having as much fun as I could be having relative to all of the irresponsible people out there.[/QUOTE]

I agree.

While I have some debt, I have been working it off. The only thing I have one credit card to pay off and student loans. I admit it can be less than fun to live below your means. I don't have cable, I don't go out every night to eat, I don't have a girlfriend, wife or kids.

You know what though? My credit is excellent, I rent instead of paying on a house in a economically depressed area that makes it hard to sell. My truck is paid off and mine. In fact, I am the only person in my family that has a vehicle that is paid off. Not my parents and not my sister or her husband. I am the only one that has an actual savings account that I don't touch. I actually keep several thousands of dollars in my checking instead of spending to the point of worrying about getting near zero every month. I don't like my checking account getting below a certain amount. The downside is that because of this everyone looks to me when they are in a financial bind. My mother settled a credit card debt which means she has none now. My brother-in-law went bankrupt and lost his vehicle. My sister has a second baby on the way but her job only lasts until May and has nothing else lined up, but she refuses to even consider bankruptcy as a last resort. Planning plays a big part in everything. I already told them I would help out within reason but I am not going to ruin myself because of their problems. It might sound cold, but I showed restraint in my spedning for a reason and family or not, I'm not going to burn through my hard earned saving for their bad decisions.

Just because you WANT to be married and have kids doesn't mean you can afford it. Just because you WANT a house doesn't mean you can afford it. Unfortuantely, my sister and brother-in-law like many americans want it all without really planning any of it. Now neither has savings an if something unfortunate were to happen, like my brother-in-law geting fired, they'd be fucked.

[quote name='encendido5']Anybody else find it funny that Lionel Hutz is arguing with Mr. Burns? Classic...

[/QUOTE]

:lol:

[quote name='Soodmeg']I always liked both arguments. Really, the secret to staying out of debt is as simply of not spending so much on things you really dont need.

But on the other hand you cant over look that never in our nations history have we had young adults start out in such a deep hole. Average college grad has what, 20 to 30 grand in debt? And with most entry level jobs going to vets willing to take a pay cut it simply, "living within your mean." Might be a understatement.

Hell most college grad dont even have means as the popularity of slave labor internships make most kids go further into debt simply to get a shot at the ol foot in the order. No one has yet told them that the majority of the time they will not be hired like the days of yesteryear.[/QUOTE]

The hole people start in is deep, which is why we would be better off teaching kids how to budget in the real world than a lot of the shit we teach them now.

[quote name='Dead of Knight']This says the lawyer making 6 figures.[/QUOTE]

Hey, even people well off can spend like fools. The fact he doesn't is awesome.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']
I agree.

While I have some debt, I have been working it off. The only thing I have one credit card to pay off and student loans. I admit it can be less than fun to live below your means. I don't have cable, I don't go out every night to eat, I don't have a girlfriend, wife or kids.
[/quote]

Mostly the same. I have student loans I just started back, a car loan I've been paying on for a couple of years, and that's it. I do have a girlfriend, and we do eat out once or twice a week, but we both make decent incomes and aren't straining our budgets or credit to eat out etc.

I've cut back on buying games--get most everything from Goozex, buy maybe 1 or 2 games a year. Cut back on buying movies, rely on Netflix. I do keep cable as I'm a huge sports fan, but I got a great deal where I get cable with HD, DVR and 12 MBPS internet for $67 a month for a year currently. Don't have a smartphone with a pricey data plan etc.

My only luxury expense that I probably spend to much on is beer, as I love good beer.

But otherwise I'm trying to build up savings and get my debt paid down as quickly as possible, so I"m pretty careful about what I spend my money on. I could be more frugal for sure, but I'm doing well enough currently while still having some luxury/entertainment budget. I try to keep my checking account around $10K at the end of the month, and when it gets a thousand or two above I move money over to my savings account at ING.


Just because you WANT to be married and have kids doesn't mean you can afford it. Just because you WANT a house doesn't mean you can afford it. Unfortuantely, my sister and brother-in-law like many americans want it all without really planning any of it. Now neither has savings an if something unfortunate were to happen, like my brother-in-law geting fired, they'd be fucked.



The hole people start in is deep, which is why we would be better off teaching kids how to budget in the real world than a lot of the shit we teach them now.
Click to expand...

Agreed, a lot of people get themselves in trouble by starting families before they have the means to support them. And agree 100% that finance should be a part of the core education curriculum. Hell, I have a Ph D and I don't know much about investing, the stock market etc., and anything I do know I learned on my own.


Hey, even people well off can spend like fools. The fact he doesn't is awesome.
Click to expand...

Yep. Plus, IIRC, he lives in the NYC area where making a $100K isn't nearly as much money as it sounds.
 
I can understand going into debt if you don't have any support from your family growing up, but 20% on frivolous items? Do you sprinkle caviar on your cereal in the morning?
 
[quote name='willardhaven']I can understand going into debt if you don't have any support from your family growing up, but 20% on frivolous items? Do you sprinkle caviar on your cereal in the morning?[/QUOTE]

Again, to be fair to FoC, from his past posts I think the majority of that is his wife blowing money--hence this post.

One can get up to 20% of income on frivolous quickly if they're not high income earners are are spending money on eating out, clothes, concerts, cds, dvds etc. etc. as many people do in today's society.
 
[quote name='Stoic Person Eater']Have you tried a firm slap to the face? That's what I do.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that's a nice, mature response there. :roll:

Make sure you do it in front of the kids too FoC. :roll:
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Again, to be fair to FoC, from his past posts I think the majority of that is his wife blowing money--hence this post.

[/QUOTE]


That explains more than you could imagine.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Correct. We're both working full time. My employer cut my pay effectively by $1 or $2 a hour because of the "challenging economic environment".

Before, we needed ~92% of our pay and dropping to stay afloat. Now, we're around ~94% of our pay and dropping to stay afloat.

Of course, there is about 20% of our pay used on frivolous items.[/QUOTE]

Just cut back on the frivolous items taking up 20% of your income, don't go out to dinner, don't go on vacation, buy generic, clip coupons, only buy stuff when it's on sale, etc.
 
[quote name='J7.']Just cut back on the frivolous items taking up 20% of your income, don't go out to dinner, don't go on vacation, buy generic, clip coupons, only buy stuff when it's on sale, etc.[/QUOTE]

I'm sounding like a broken record here...

Again, he's asking for advice on how to get his WIFE to do those things. He's doing it, but his wife isn't on the same page.
 
You have to sit down together and go through your family budget. Show your wife how close to the edge you're living with your current financial habits and how catastrophic it would be if either of you lost your job.

Probably won't help but it's really the best you can do.
 
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Create a fake storefront in your house and give your wife monopoly money. Whenever she feels like spending money, she can "go to the store" and buy things from you. It's important that you stay in role as the shopkeeper. Just pull stuff out of your cabinets/attic to "sell" to her.
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']Why does his income matter? There are many people who make well below six figures that can manage their money just fine, and know how to not live beyond their means. Using the line "live in America" is a fucking cop out and everyone here knows it. Learn how to control your spending.[/QUOTE]

You're talking to the wrong person telling me to control my spending. I have no debts, put away well over half of my entry-level income into savings, and have tens of thousands of dollars in savings.

I was just trolling him.
 
[quote name='Stoic Person Eater']No kids, I slapped her in the baby maker already.[/QUOTE]

It's too bad your father didn't try that on your mother.
 
C'mon FoC, this is like the thousandth time you've posted about this same problem. Just get into the argument and see what comes of it. If nothing then just start ebaying her shit behind her back and see how long it takes before she notices.
 
Yeah, as much as I've stuck up for him--as I do feel bad for FoC as it's a shitty, shitty situation--that is what it really boils down to.

You have to have the argument and get her to see the importance of being frugal, getting debt paid down and savings built up. Or you have to learn to live with the situation unless you're willing to end it--which is a damn hard decision with kids in the equation.

Talk to her about all the layoffs and how much you guys are fucked if either of you becomes unemployed even for a few months since you have little savings and spend nearly all your income each month. Talk her about the consequences of losing your home, cards whatever other debts you have in bankrupty and the years and years it would take to get the credit score back up and get any semblence of the current lifestyle back etc.

If she can't see the light with those very real risks laid out, then she's a lost cause and you just have to decide if you can keep living that way or not, and go from there.

I hope it works out for the best.
 
[quote name='Dead of Knight']You're talking to the wrong person telling me to control my spending. I have no debts, put away well over half of my entry-level income into savings, and have tens of thousands of dollars in savings.

I was just trolling him.[/QUOTE]

Calm down. We all know your financial situation since you've mentioned it countless other times in other threads. You've mentioned several times on here how your parents have given you thousands of dollars and how you work for a CPA. We've got that. Good for you. For one, I hardly was telling you to control your spending. I commented on how his income level does not mean a damn thing when managing money. Where exactly in my post did you see me mention anything about YOU specifically in regards to your spending or how much money YOU have in the bank? No one cares about the fact that you have money saved up.
 
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[quote name='dmaul1114']I'm sounding like a broken record here...

Again, he's asking for advice on how to get his WIFE to do those things. He's doing it, but his wife isn't on the same page.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I could live on rice and beans for the next decade, but having three mouths going to McDonald's cancels out any savings.

Like I posted, the goal is continued motivation. For a moment yesterday, she realized there would be huge changes if her income disappeared. Then, she forgot like the protagonist in Momento.

To clarify the 94% figure, 6% goes to the 401Ks and the other 94% goes to bills or pissed away. Of course, some bills are like my mortgages and student loans. Principal is being paid off every month, but the size of the bill won't change until the debt is paid off. Once one debt is paid off, the leftover money is lumped into another debt to accelerate its payoff. Snowball effect in Dave Ramsey terms.

From what I calculate, all of our debts including mortgages and college for two kids can be paid off before my daughter turns 18 if incomes neither improve or worsen compared to the cost of living. As bonuses for paying off large sections of debt, vacations to Disney World, Hawaii and Europe are included.
 
[quote name='Canadian_Man']I can't get around the idea of you expecting your wife to pay the bills :whistle2:s[/QUOTE]

Why?

It's not 1950 anymore. They're both working and should both being sharing the duty in paying the bills. Both contributing monetarily and in the act of actually paying them since he's noted before that his wife doesn't want joint checking accounts as she wants to spend her money however.
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']Calm down, bitchola. We all know your financial situation since you've mentioned it countless other times in other threads. For one, I hardly was telling you to control your spending. I commented on how his income level does not mean a damn thing when managing money. Where exactly in my post did you see me mention anything about YOU specifically in regards to your spending or how much money YOU have in the bank? No one cares about the fact that you have money saved up.[/QUOTE]


Well, to be fair, you said "learn how to control your spending" while responding to her post. Since you used "they" as other people who don't make 6 figures and know how to control "their" spending, your post seems framed as a comparison between "them" and "you" with the "you" being DoK.
 
[quote name='SpazX']Well, to be fair, you said "learn how to control your spending" while responding to her post. Since you used "they" as other people who don't make 6 figures and know how to control "their" spending, your post seems framed as a comparison between "them" and "you" with the "you" being DoK.[/QUOTE]

This, jackass (obviously referring to mtxbass1). Now calm down. And learn to use better grammar if you don't want to be called out.

[quote name='dmaul1114']Why?

It's not 1950 anymore. They're both working and should both being sharing the duty in paying the bills. Both contributing monetarily and in the act of actually paying them since he's noted before that his wife doesn't want joint checking accounts as she wants to spend her money however.[/QUOTE]
Pay him no mind, he's from Quebec.
 
[quote name='SpazX']Well, to be fair, you said "learn how to control your spending" while responding to her post. Since you used "they" as other people who don't make 6 figures and know how to control "their" spending, your post seems framed as a comparison between "them" and "you" with the "you" being DoK.[/QUOTE]

The intention of my post was not calling out DoK at all on how she spends her money, but on how absurd it was for her to call out Javy in the first place based on what he makes. You're going to pick apart the last sentence of my post, yet not hers because she was "trolling"? Give me a break.

[quote name='Dead of Knight']This, jackass (obviously referring to mtxbass1). Now calm down. And learn to use better grammar if you don't want to be called out.
[/QUOTE]

:roll: I love how you claim that you were trolling Javy, and that entitles you to get a free pass about your comments that multiple people called you out on. Again, I don't care that you personally can control your spending. Congrats. My comment was in regards to people in general who spend well above their means.
 
I didn't see her comment as a big deal, and don't see why she herself called it trolling.

Javeryh should be respected for living below his means for sure. But at the same time it is of course easier to live below your means if you make 6 figures and have the fortune to not have student loan debt etc., so she had a point.

I can readily admit that I live below my means now as I make more than twice as much now than I ever have before since I finally finished grad school and finally started my career. And I haven't changed my lifestyle both to be frugal, and simply because I work a ton and don't have time to blow money very often. :D
 
[quote name='mtxbass1']The intention of my post was not calling out DoK at all on how she spends her money, but on how absurd it was for her to call out Javy in the first place based on what he makes. You're going to pick apart the last sentence of my post, yet not hers because she was "trolling"? Give me a break.[/QUOTE]

I didn't pick apart your sentence, you asked where you said anything about her spending specifically and I explained how it could be read that way. I don't care if she was messing with javeryh, and I doubt he would take what she said seriously.
 
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