Are Illegal immigrants that bad?

Why is it that when we mention illegals, we always mention mexicans? While its true that over 48% of illegals are of hispanic origin, no one else mentions the asians, africans, europeans and so forth. Why is that?

Edit: I am hispanic born in California. Not mexican though. Hopefully you could tell from my avatar.

This also made me laugh some. Especially when some spanish lady at 2:08 is at the minuteman rally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8nDzH2J8F0
 
[quote name='vasco']Why is it that when we mention illegals, we always mention mexicans? While its true that over 48% of illegals are of hispanic origin, no one else mentions the asians, africans, europeans and so forth. Why is that?
[/quote]

It's probably that whole actually bothering to learn english rather than trying to shove spanish down everyone's throat. When you "act" american or stay hidden people tend to ignore you.
 
[quote name='BodyShot213']I have to be honest and say that i respect them a hell alot more than our own U.S citizens that beg on the street for money. In fact, i like them more than our fat lazy citizens that take advantage of disability, welfare, and unemployment. But thats just my opinion.

Without these workers my city, my state would go bankrupt.[/QUOTE]
On an individual basis, I'm sure that are many hard-working, responsible illegal immigrants. The problems are those associate with the unrestricted immigration of 10's of millions of illegal immigrants.

The underlying problem is, by and large, that VAST majority of illegal immigrants are poor. They are unskilled. They will not build our economy, they will drain from it. True, the slave wages they will happily accept may cut a few cents off the price of a pound of produce, but you pay that money back in many other ways. Educate just 1 illegal immigrant child and you'll pay more than $5000 per year. If they visit the emergency room, they won't be able to pay, you are eventually absorbing the cost of their care (in the event the emergency rooms losses are bailed out by local government, otherwise, you just lose another emergency room). The cost of feeding, housing, and caring for illegal alien criminals is immense.

Another problem is that the latest groups of illegal immigrants are here for a different reason than our immigrant forefathers. They came here to become AMERICAN. They tried to learn English, they taught their children that was the language to speak. They put American flags on their stoops. The latest groups are NOT here to assimilate. They are here to cash in. They are not interested in learning English, and in fact have the audacity to demand we educate their children in their home language (generally Spanish)

All in all, immigrants are not a problem. Unrestricted illegal immigration is.
 
I'm strongly pro-immigration, being the child of immigrants. That's why I am just as strongly against illegal immigration.
 
[quote name='dopa345']I'm strongly pro-immigration, being the child of immigrants. That's why I am just as strongly against illegal immigration.[/quote]

Well said, the argument that our fore-fathers settled here illegally, so it should be OK to illegally immigrate here now is redundant and illogical, it doesn't negate the fact that we have a legal process that they must be abide by when immigrating, like the rest of the world. I am not for giving illegal immigrants 'work visas', it will just give them more of an incentive the cross that border illegally.
 
[quote name='dopa345']I'm strongly pro-immigration, being the child of immigrants. That's why I am just as strongly against illegal immigration.[/quote]

Well said, the argument that our fore-fathers settled here illegally, so it should be OK to illegally immigrate here now is redundant and illogical, it doesn't negate the fact that we have a legal process that they must be abide by when immigrating, like the rest of the world. I am not for giving illegal immigrants 'work visas', it will just give them more of an incentive the cross that border illegally.
 
[quote name='Revenantae']On an individual basis, I'm sure that are many hard-working, responsible illegal immigrants. The problems are those associate with the unrestricted immigration of 10's of millions of illegal immigrants.

The underlying problem is, by and large, that VAST majority of illegal immigrants are poor. They are unskilled. They will not build our economy, they will drain from it. True, the slave wages they will happily accept may cut a few cents off the price of a pound of produce, but you pay that money back in many other ways. Educate just 1 illegal immigrant child and you'll pay more than $5000 per year. If they visit the emergency room, they won't be able to pay, you are eventually absorbing the cost of their care (in the event the emergency rooms losses are bailed out by local government, otherwise, you just lose another emergency room). The cost of feeding, housing, and caring for illegal alien criminals is immense.

Another problem is that the latest groups of illegal immigrants are here for a different reason than our immigrant forefathers. They came here to become AMERICAN. They tried to learn English, they taught their children that was the language to speak. They put American flags on their stoops. The latest groups are NOT here to assimilate. They are here to cash in. They are not interested in learning English, and in fact have the audacity to demand we educate their children in their home language (generally Spanish)

All in all, immigrants are not a problem. Unrestricted illegal immigration is.[/QUOTE]

Damn...that sums up everything I believe in. Too bad living in SoCal if you even bring it up I'm marked as a 'racist' because 85% of people out here are hispanic.
 
That does seem to be a problem. Go into any national chain (Best Buy, Sears, Lowe's etc.) and the signs for the departments are all in English and Spanish. It seems that at least 1/2 - 2/3 of all products on the shelves in stores have packaging in English and Spanish. If you say you disagree with it, you are considered a racist.

I have heard in some areas like Texas you can't even get a job unless you know Spanish as well as English and when my cousin lived in Miami, he said so few people knew English that he couldn't even walk into a deli and order without problems.
 
Saying all illegals are good hardworking people to me is racial profiling.
Millions of people that commited the same crime and instead of calling them criminals were gonna say 'hey stats say thousands of them work hard' so lets just say there all hard workers he looks dark he must work a field!


How about that reach for 'oooh lazy americans ' as if none of the illegals are lazy? how about some black and white.
WHO CARES WHOS LAZY.

Remember tookie williams? he still got the chair.

We have this society set up so you cant just do a crime and then 'oh i got away with it for 10 years' so im gonna walk down the street and demand you dont arrest me.
ARE YOU SERIOUS? you watch tv old men and woman who got away with robbing banks 30 years ago on there death bed end up being put in prison.

SO your not gonna stick up for your own american criminals you wanna take up for people from another country...WOW!
Lets put it this way...
theres millions of oj simpsons in this country how about the government sends out monthly donation envelopes to the supporters of the illegals and those people..'some of you people' pay there way every month.
The rest of us wont bend the rules anymore and pay nothing.

That would be truly fair for everyone sound good?
 
I have an honest question...

Is it that hard to become a legal US citizen? I don't mean that in a smartass way. I have no idea how the process works, but I know my best friend and his family are from Pakistan and they are here legally.

Anyway, if you want to stop illegal immigration you have to some down hard on the companies that hire them. The problem lies in the fact that a lot of the people in the goverment owe the money they have to illegal labor whether directly or indirectly so they have no interest in really cracking down on it.
 
[quote name='Revenantae']On an individual basis, I'm sure that are many hard-working, responsible illegal immigrants. The problems are those associate with the unrestricted immigration of 10's of millions of illegal immigrants.

The underlying problem is, by and large, that VAST majority of illegal immigrants are poor. They are unskilled. They will not build our economy, they will drain from it. True, the slave wages they will happily accept may cut a few cents off the price of a pound of produce, but you pay that money back in many other ways. Educate just 1 illegal immigrant child and you'll pay more than $5000 per year. If they visit the emergency room, they won't be able to pay, you are eventually absorbing the cost of their care (in the event the emergency rooms losses are bailed out by local government, otherwise, you just lose another emergency room). The cost of feeding, housing, and caring for illegal alien criminals is immense.

Another problem is that the latest groups of illegal immigrants are here for a different reason than our immigrant forefathers. They came here to become AMERICAN. They tried to learn English, they taught their children that was the language to speak. They put American flags on their stoops. The latest groups are NOT here to assimilate. They are here to cash in. They are not interested in learning English, and in fact have the audacity to demand we educate their children in their home language (generally Spanish)

All in all, immigrants are not a problem. Unrestricted illegal immigration is.[/quote]

I think you make some good points about unskilled immigrants putting a drain on the economy, but I think your notions about the "latest immigrant group" are misguided.

Many of the immigrants to America didn't try especially hard to assimilate (hence "Chinatown", "Little Italy", etc) - even today I hear old-timer Irish immigrants endlessly complaining about the problems of America (begging the question - why did you come). However it seems like the second-generation of immigrants are the ones who learn the language, absorb the culture, and catch the jingoistic spirit du jour.

The European immigrants just showed up at the right time, and they still got a hard time from "America Firsters" who used arguements very similar to yours. I think the problem with immigrants today is that medical and hospital care prices have skyrocketed, so more immigrants incur costly medical bills instead of just dying off like the early 20th Century Europeans.
 
[quote name='Starwishi']Illegal immigrants are good for working at small businesses and doing low paying, degrading jobs that no one else wants, but there is a negative side. For instance, they don't pay taxes and they get all the benefits of American citizens without actually being a citizen. Its not fair to the rest of us.[/QUOTE]

yes like all those construction jobs that are "degrading" and "no one else wants"
 
[quote name='rsigley']yes like all those construction jobs that are "degrading" and "no one else wants"[/quote]

What the hell are you talking about? If no Americans wanted construction jobs then so many wouldent have them, the only reason to many illegal immigrants do these jobs is because employers know that they can pay them an outrageously low price for hard labor.
 
[quote name='Rozz']What the hell are you talking about? If no Americans wanted construction jobs then so many wouldent have them, the only reason to many illegal immigrants do these jobs is because employers know that they can pay them an outrageously low price for hard labor.[/QUOTE]

oh he was saying the mexicans only do the degrading jobs no one else wants, and i was being sarcastic since here they do most of the construction jobs a lot of people would love to have
 
[quote name='YoshiFan1']That does seem to be a problem. Go into any national chain (Best Buy, Sears, Lowe's etc.) and the signs for the departments are all in English and Spanish. It seems that at least 1/2 - 2/3 of all products on the shelves in stores have packaging in English and Spanish. If you say you disagree with it, you are considered a racist. [/quote]

Is that really a problem? I mean honestly, do you really care if there are two languages on signs and products? Does that damage you in some way?
 
[quote name='SpazX']Is that really a problem? I mean honestly, do you really care if there are two languages on signs and products? Does that damage you in some way?[/quote]

Yes it is a problem. As stated before by Cammo, "Many of the immigrants to America didn't try especially hard to assimilate". This only encourages that aspect.
 
...and the problem with a lack of assimilation is...?

They work, right?

They (ideally, at any rate) would pay their taxes?

They keep to themselves, right?

So what's the fuckin' problem? I don't see you knockin' down Chinatowns, man, and tellin' them to assimilate or else.
 
[quote name='SpazX']Is that really a problem? I mean honestly, do you really care if there are two languages on signs and products? Does that damage you in some way?[/QUOTE]

Higher product costs. For example, frozen food now has instructions in English and Spanish. More ink on the box, plus the costs of having to re-design the box to include the Spanish. Stores like Best Buy also have Spanish versions of their websites which cost money to develop so the costs have to come from somewhere. I also find it annoying to pick up a box to look at the microwaving directions only to have to flip it around because I looked at the Spanish side. Yeah it's not a huge deal but it's more of the fact Spanish only speakers are being catered too and have no reason to learn English which bothers me when every other non English speaking group had to learn English when they came to the US or at least know that everything would not be in their language. What's going to happen years from know when you have a larger and larger percentage of the population that doesn't speak English?
 
[quote name='YoshiFan1']Higher product costs. For example, frozen food now has instructions in English and Spanish. More ink on the box, plus the costs of having to re-design the box to include the Spanish. Stores like Best Buy also have Spanish versions of their websites which cost money to develop so the costs have to come from somewhere. I also find it annoying to pick up a box to look at the microwaving directions only to have to flip it around because I looked at the Spanish side. Yeah it's not a huge deal but it's more of the fact Spanish only speakers are being catered too and have no reason to learn English which bothers me when every other non English speaking group had to learn English when they came to the US or at least know that everything would not be in their language. What's going to happen years from know when you have a larger and larger percentage of the population that doesn't speak English?[/QUOTE]

I disagree with that argument, unless there's some federal law of some sort that requires that. Companies wouldn't bother making the effort to translate unless it improved their bottom line by expanding their market.
 
[quote name='dopa345']I disagree with that argument, unless there's some federal law of some sort that requires that. Companies wouldn't bother making the effort to translate unless it improved their bottom line by expanding their market.[/quote]

Yes it expands their market, BUT it is just another example of us pandering to immigrants and not having them adjust their style of life to ours. Nobody is saying get rid of their culture, but if you can't even make the effort to read and speak our native language, there are problems.
 
[quote name='schuerm26']Yes it expands their market, BUT it is just another example of us pandering to immigrants and not having them adjust their style of life to ours. Nobody is saying get rid of their culture, but if you can't even make the effort to read and speak our native language, there are problems.[/QUOTE]

Then your anger is misplaced. You should be blaming the greedy corporations for selling out American culture to make an extra buck by "pandering" to immigrants.
 
[quote name='YoshiFan1']Higher product costs. For example, frozen food now has instructions in English and Spanish. More ink on the box, plus the costs of having to re-design the box to include the Spanish. Stores like Best Buy also have Spanish versions of their websites which cost money to develop so the costs have to come from somewhere. I also find it annoying to pick up a box to look at the microwaving directions only to have to flip it around because I looked at the Spanish side. Yeah it's not a huge deal but it's more of the fact Spanish only speakers are being catered too and have no reason to learn English which bothers me when every other non English speaking group had to learn English when they came to the US or at least know that everything would not be in their language. What's going to happen years from know when you have a larger and larger percentage of the population that doesn't speak English?[/quote]
English/French seems to work ok in Canada, I'm sure English/Spanish would work out fine here.

Spanish is the second most spoken western language in the world, it wouldn't be a bad idea to learn it anyway.

But to address the point: I don't really think that many immigrants wouldn't want to learn English anyway since it would be easier for them to function in society. It's the first-generation immigrants that don't know the language well, that's the way it always has been. It's hard enough for older people to learn to speak a new language well enough to function, I don't see why it's really that much of a problem to make it a little easier for them to microwave a dinner or something.
 
[quote name='Rozz']How about the crime they bring in?

I can think of a town. It's called Hazelton, PA in Northeast PA. It was a quiet town with virtually no serious crime at all. Now that about an estimated 30% of the population there is of illegal immigrants there are gangs and shootings. That, my friend, is not a good thing.[/QUOTE]

Anecdotal evidence. If you look at the statistics, you'll see that crime has dropped in the biggest cities recently -- NYC, LA, Chicago -- exactly at the same time when immigrant populations in these cities have increased. What you're saying is like blaming videogames for violence when crime rates have decreased significantly at the same time videogames have gained popularity.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Anecdotal evidence. If you look at the statistics, you'll see that crime has dropped in the biggest cities recently -- NYC, LA, Chicago -- exactly at the same time when immigrant populations in these cities have increased. What you're saying is like blaming videogames for violence when crime rates have decreased significantly at the same time videogames have gained popularity.[/quote]

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=20469

Go look at the top 10 list. It is no coincedence that Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico are the top 3.
 
[quote name='schuerm26']http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=20469

Go look at the top 10 list. It is no coincedence that Nevada, Arizona and New Mexico are the top 3.[/QUOTE]

http://www.morganquitno.com/dang07.htm

If you actually look at the website that did the data (even if all they did is a bland-ass method that compared state averages versus the national average, which is, statistically, something that a kid with diapers on could do), you'll notice the change from previous years. That is, those "dangerous states" are moving down.

Nevertheless, you could argue, what is the difference between being the #2 and #3 most dangerous state, and you'd have a valid point.

It doesn't change, of course, that, at the very best, you're making a logically fallacious jump from "southwestern states are more dangerous" to "the crime rate is due to illegal immigrants." The data/study cited simply do not prove anything about immigration and crime, and you're asking us to take a gigantic leap of faith with you. I see a cliff ahead, so I'll keep my feet on the ground.

Now, let's go look at the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports (UCR), which the Quitno data simply polished up for you. Here's one example of illegal immigrants' contribution to the crime rate. Let's make the assumption that, since illegal immigration is a problem that most US citizens have with Mexicans and other latinos, few illegal immigrants can be catgorized as "white" or "black" (ethnic categorization of Latinos is whole can of worms for another thread).

So, if we can handle that, take a look at non-white and non-black contribution to murder rates: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/violent_crime/murder.html

Scroll down to table 2.5 - it lists racial contributions to murder. So, we have 68.5% of murders committed by "blacks" and "whites," and 1.7% "other." The remaining 30% are "unknown." So, we can come to several conclusions:
1) Latino contribution to the crime rate is overstated - although murder is only one kind of crime among many, they simply aren't represented as a substantial portion of the murdering population.
or,
2) The data is flawed because the US government is always horrible at classifying Latinos racially - they may be in there, but they're likely hiding amongst the "black" and "white" groups.
or,
3) You can deny it all and insist that Latinos still contribute to the crime rate, but that they're just *so good* at it that they aren't caught. :lol:

Anyway, I'm not any closer to a definitive conclusion, but I'm also a lot closer to making an argument related to race-based crime rates. I'm not going to present some hackneyed "oh, Nevada is in the south, and that's where 'messicans are, and that's why crime is high, and I'm going to totally ignore the mafia, gambling-based crime, and the geographical opportunities that a low-population density state offers when considering how dangerous it is" explanation. ;)
 
[quote name='mykevermin']http://www.morganquitno.com/dang07.htm

If you actually look at the website that did the data (even if all they did is a bland-ass method that compared state averages versus the national average, which is, statistically, something that a kid with diapers on could do), you'll notice the change from previous years. That is, those "dangerous states" are moving down.

Nevertheless, you could argue, what is the difference between being the #2 and #3 most dangerous state, and you'd have a valid point.

It doesn't change, of course, that, at the very best, you're making a logically fallacious jump from "southwestern states are more dangerous" to "the crime rate is due to illegal immigrants." The data/study cited simply do not prove anything about immigration and crime, and you're asking us to take a gigantic leap of faith with you. I see a cliff ahead, so I'll keep my feet on the ground.

Now, let's go look at the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports (UCR), which the Quitno data simply polished up for you. Here's one example of illegal immigrants' contribution to the crime rate. Let's make the assumption that, since illegal immigration is a problem that most US citizens have with Mexicans and other latinos, few illegal immigrants can be catgorized as "white" or "black" (ethnic categorization of Latinos is whole can of worms for another thread).

So, if we can handle that, take a look at non-white and non-black contribution to murder rates: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_reported/violent_crime/murder.html

Scroll down to table 2.5 - it lists racial contributions to murder. So, we have 68.5% of murders committed by "blacks" and "whites," and 1.7% "other." The remaining 30% are "unknown." So, we can come to several conclusions:
1) Latino contribution to the crime rate is overstated - although murder is only one kind of crime among many, they simply aren't represented as a substantial portion of the murdering population.
or,
2) The data is flawed because the US government is always horrible at classifying Latinos racially - they may be in there, but they're likely hiding amongst the "black" and "white" groups.
or,
3) You can deny it all and insist that Latinos still contribute to the crime rate, but that they're just *so good* at it that they aren't caught. :lol:

Anyway, I'm not any closer to a definitive conclusion, but I'm also a lot closer to making an argument related to race-based crime rates. I'm not going to present some hackneyed "oh, Nevada is in the south, and that's where 'messicans are, and that's why crime is high, and I'm going to totally ignore the mafia, gambling-based crime, and the geographical opportunities that a low-population density state offers when considering how dangerous it is" explanation. ;)[/quote]

Arizona, Nevada, Texas and California are all in the Top 12 ranked as most dangerous. This is not a coincidence that 25% of the top 12 are border states to the south.
 
The issue of whether illegal immigrants increase crime or not is immaterial. The fact remains that they are here illegally. If someone breaks into your house and stays there but takes really good care of the house and keeps it clean, it still doesn't negate the fact that they still broke into your house and are there illegally.
 
[quote name='Rozz']Then why have all the shootings there been by illegal Mexicans?

Why have all the gangs there been by illegal Mexicans?

I've been there, it was a small little town with virtually no crime, and since they've come in the rate has definitely gone up.[/quote]

Crime (like most things) has a lot more to do with social class than ethnicity/race/nationality. Most likely the problem is that they're poor illegal Mexicans, not that they're illegal Mexicans.

The legality issue is pretty moot when it comes to that anyway unless that's the only reason they can't find a job and are therefore poor. Plently of people that are here perfectly legally engage in crime so obviously that's not a causal factor and all Mexicans obviously don't engage in crime so unless illegal + Mexican = criminal then that's not the reason why they are criminals.

Not that I'm saying what they're doing is right, they should be arrested and subsequently deported if here illegally, but yeah, if they had good jobs they probably wouldn't be in gangs whether or not they're illegal or Mexican.
 
[quote name='Rozz']Then why have all the shootings there been by illegal Mexicans?

Why have all the gangs there been by illegal Mexicans?

I've been there, it was a small little town with virtually no crime, and since they've come in the rate has definitely gone up.[/QUOTE]

Allow me to clarify. I am not arguing that illegal immigration doesn't bring crime problems. Look up the numbers of illegals in federal prisons for a shocker. There are plenty of organized drug/people trafficking gangs operating on the border that I think all of us would fully support a crackdown on.

However, you are generalizing too much in your statements. Most people who come across, even the poor, uneducated ones, are not criminals. I want illegal immigration stopped as much as you probably do, but the facts aren't as you portray them to be by generalizing.

Here's a good article on this subject:
http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=9302881
 
[quote name='dopa345']The issue of whether illegal immigrants increase crime or not is immaterial. The fact remains that they are here illegally. If someone breaks into your house and stays there but takes really good care of the house and keeps it clean, it still doesn't negate the fact that they still broke into your house and are there illegally.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't blame them for "break into my house" though, they're just looking for a better life (well most of them). I wouldn't want to stay in a third-world country, rotting, when a land of opportunity is a fence away.
 
[quote name='crazytalkx']I wouldn't blame them for "break into my house" though, they're just looking for a better life (well most of them). I wouldn't want to stay in a third-world country, rotting, when a land of opportunity is a fence away.[/QUOTE]

Oh. So its ok if 80 of them 'break into your house', live there, have 6 kids each, don't work, and try and get as much gov. help as possible. Thats cool, right?
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Oh. So its ok if 80 of them 'break into your house', live there, have 6 kids each, don't work, and try and get as much gov. help as possible. Thats cool, right?[/QUOTE]

woahwoahwoah...lay off the stereotypes there, Ian Stuart.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']woahwoahwoah...lay off the stereotypes there, Ian Stuart.[/QUOTE]

Come to SoCal and take a look around. How can a 3 bedroom house have 12 (!) cars parked outside/on the grass all the time? Oh, they are ALL living there!

Drive down the street and plan on seeing a few 14 year old girls pushing a baby stroller with another in the oven.

Prepare to see a huge increase in traffic...how many actually HAVE a drivers license?

I'm not racist by any means, but you would have to be blind not to notice any of this in SoCal.
 
So we've established that southern california has a large latino population. Thanks for the fuckin' newsflash, ace.

Now, instead of telling me the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening, how's about you, instead, go about proving your claims that latinos (1) don't work, (2) thrive on government aid, and (3) drive without legal license more than others. They're your claims, after all, and you haven't done a fucking thing to prove them.
 
[quote name='crazytalkx']I wouldn't blame them for "break into my house" though, they're just looking for a better life (well most of them). I wouldn't want to stay in a third-world country, rotting, when a land of opportunity is a fence away.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure most people commiting crimes are looking for a better life but the ends do not justify the means. If you want to enter our country, then you should have to do it legally like everyone else trying to get in.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']So we've established that southern california has a large latino population. Thanks for the fuckin' newsflash, ace.

Now, instead of telling me the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening, how's about you, instead, go about proving your claims that latinos (1) don't work, (2) thrive on government aid, and (3) drive without legal license more than others. They're your claims, after all, and you haven't done a fucking thing to prove them.[/QUOTE]

How would I prove this? Would you like me to take pictures?
How about the illegal who hit my car, didn't have a drivers license, nor a job, and therefore I couldn't SUE them because what would I get, food stamps? C'mon.

Yes, SoCal has a HUGE population of Latino's. I wonder if it has to due with us being on the border of Mexico? I don't think to many would travel up to Maine :roll:
 
[quote name='mykevermin']It's simple, then, really. If you can't prove it, don't claim it.[/QUOTE]

Ahh, ok.
So I guess all your claims you can't prove either then, right? They are all just 100% good people who all have great jobs, don't cause any crimes, pay all their taxes, and do nothing wrong, right? They all carry $100 bills in their pocket because when they cash their check they always get that. Its not because they get paid under the table and do not pay any taxes that you and I do, right?

This is obviously a subject you and I simply will not agree about. I'm not changing my stance and neither are you. Many here that live in SoCal like I do actually understand whats going on and see it everyday. Again, I am far from racist, I just know what I know and see what I see that makes my opinion correct to me. This is something we will never agree about it.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Um.

Did he actually claim that?

Because I'm pretty sure he didn't. He just asked you to provide some evidence that wasn't totally anecdotal.

You responded with... anecdotal evidence.

fuck[/QUOTE]


I'm sorry, let me dig up some info then to show you what my opinion is then :roll:
This is exactly why I stay out of this forum.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Yeah! How dare we ask that you back up your assertions![/QUOTE]

Yes, I better take pictures!
How about I call up Bob Clark and ask him. Oh, wait...
 
[quote name='GizmoGC']Yes, I better take pictures!
How about I call up Bob Clark and ask him. Oh, wait...[/QUOTE]

All I want is data - if you can't back up what you say, put your fucking attitude in check. Don't get defiant because you have an opinion that you have nothing to verify with; it's no different than those Pat Robertson "if I vote for what Jesus wants I'll have a special place waiting for me in heaven" types.

Or those people who would vote for the candidate that the voices in their head tell them to, or scientologists, or what have you. The one thing you share in common? You're equally uninformed, but feel that your opinions are valid.

Let me break it down for you: what you describe above describes my neighborhood and surrounding neighborhoods. Pure trash, drug dealers, too many people to a home, 12 year olds with strollers and one in the oven.

The difference is that my neighborhood is 90%+ white. Now, let me set you up: would I be incorrect if I said "aw, dude, there are so many hillbilly methhead kid-poppin' motherfuckers. All white folks do is smoke meth, watch Judge Judy, drink "bud lite," and fuck"?

Well, would I be? Do *you* think all white folks are like that? No? So why is it that you seem to think it's okay to generalize all Latinos in the same way? Not just *okay*, but *accurate* as well?
 
fuck illegals. I live in Southern California, and they are EVERYWHERE. They come here, and they have NO respect for the people already legally living here. They won't learn the language, they want special rights for nothing, the use our tax dollars for healthcare, and welfare that my grandfather who was a war vet couldn't even get. They manipulate every aspect of the system, they get free and low-rent housing, live 15 people to a three bedroom house. Everything they do is a slap in the face to every hardworking, honest, taxpaying American citizen. Democrats let them in for thier votes, and Republicans keep them in for their cheap labor. The real American workers, and taxpayers suffer.

It sickens me.
 
Yet again, the "I live in southern california, so I can have a racist opinion without backing it up" card is played.

It's a bit worn, don't you think?
 
I went to college in SoCal and a frighteningly large percentage of the young white males have that mentality...I think its part of the culture. I'm also a white male but I grew up in the Bay Area where we have pretty much the most ethnically diverse population in the world, including alot of presumably illegal aliens (though not nearly as many as "the Southlands," as LA news likes to call it,) and I have no problem with them.

And Ive got a question...how the fuck are illegals getting government sponsered housing & wellfare? I highly doubt Uncle Sam is giving some guy money when you know damn well if he showed up in a wellfare line the INS would be there immediately.

Finally, I think you guys are delusional if you think you're better off with the creme de la creme of other nations storming in. Unless you're all doctors and nuclear physicists, that would make YOU THE UNDERCLASS. Society requires a pyramid like heirchy for the upper echelons to be able to enjoy the trappings of wealth, without a large base the economy would be a total disaster...so while my concern with unrestrained immigration is population saturation at some point (trust me theres gonna be some tough times ahead in the next 50 years or so with the current birth rate and the worlds resources) we are far from there yet and we still need unskilled, dirt cheap work to fuel the economy...like the one guy said fuck paying $7 for a head of lettuce...which is exactly what you'll be paying if a bunch of highschool graduate American fuckheads getting union wages are the ones picking the lettuce.
 
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