Are video games childish?

I voted no but that doesn't tell the entire story. They are as childish as movies, books, music or any entertainment can be. It depends on the game.
 
kinda. I think the overwhelming majority of games are aimed at teens, but gameplay is something that can attract anyone. Thus explaining how grown men can like Blue Dragon :lol:
 
The question is far too general to be answered correctly either way.
 
[quote name='jer7583']The question is far too general to be answered correctly either way.[/quote]

That was the point I was trying to get Pyro to understand.
 
Well, it's like answering the question- Does cake have fish shaped confectionary in it?

Well certainly some types of cake do, but you don't need that to have cake.

This question goes either way when you substitute Half Life 2: Episode 2 (absolutely not) for Videogames or if you substitute MLB Power Pros (questionable) or if you substitute Cars (absolutely) The problem is with the question, not the answer.
 
Childish has too many subjective definitions to be understood properly.

Childish as in "made for kids"? Well, the unending flow of licensed crap from various cartoons / movies would say yes.

Childish as in immature? I think most violence-for-violence's sake games (as well as a lot of perversion out there) would say yes. The irony of many games that have it getting the "mature" rating makes me laugh a lot of the time.

Childish as in for the simple minded? I suppose, maybe.

And yet, there's games to counteract all of that. Certainly violent games aren't made for children. There are games that pull of violence for trhe sake of story telling. And as far as simple minded? Go play Portal.

So, the correct answer is Yes and No.
 
Depends on the person using them. Videogames aren't inherently childish, but they can be enablers for a childish person who plays them:



1. You blow off a significant other to play them
2. You blow off work to play them
3. You blow off School to play them
4. You play them instead of socially interacting (I mean consistently)
5. You play them and don't get any exercise (ie playing them instead of getting some physical activity)


So, if you play some Bioshock for an hour or two after work or on some weeknight when nothing is going on then it's all good, but if you have to be on the internet and your computer for hours a day to play WoW instead of interacting with your friends or doing your homework then...well.

As for the medium itself being "childish", the notion is idiotic. Are movies childish? Music? Fiction? Tossing around a ball while people cheer you on? Labels like that are usually flimsy insults used by people with big fucking attitudes.
 
[quote name='javeryh']I voted no but that doesn't tell the entire story. They are as childish as movies, books, music or any entertainment can be. It depends on the game.[/quote]

Exactly what I was going to respond with.
 
I think it's childish that you made a thread about you and Pyrogamer's argument from another thread to get people to side with you....
 
[quote name='linkpwns']I think it's childish that you made a thread about you and Pyrogamer's argument from another thread to get people to side with you....[/quote]

If you say so.
 
To me, that's the same as asking whether film is childish or not. games are stories. Interactive stories, and like film they offer a variety of depths. Even games that don't have a specific story (Smash Brothers, for example) are a tool for the player to createe their own stories as their gameplay experience comes together.

Games need to be seen more along the lines of books, film, and theater.
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']That was the point I was trying to get Pyro to understand.[/QUOTE]
No it wasn't. I'm well aware of that point, and I agree with it.

The vast majority of games are childish, as such is is quite reasonable to call videogames, as a whole, "childish".

If 99.9999% of the time someone is a dick, it would be reasonable to call them, on the whole, a dick.


Though right now I'm still struggling to name a single videogame that isn't childish, so that 99.9999% example might be a bit too generous.

[quote name='javeryh']I voted no but that doesn't tell the entire story. They are as childish as movies, books, music or any entertainment can be. It depends on the game.[/QUOTE]
That's pure theory and speculation. What something has the potential to be and what something is are entirely different things. The poll is not "is interactive entertainment inherently childish?" it's "ARE videogames childish?".
 
Pyro, not really a challenge to you but I'm just curious. What would you say is childish about a game like Half-Life 2 or the Halos or Resistance that use pretty generous violence in the act of telling a mature story?
 
[quote name='daroga']Pyro, not really a challenge to you but I'm just curious. What would you say is childish about a game like Half-Life 2 or the Halos or Resistance that use pretty generous violence in the act of telling a mature story?[/QUOTE]
Half-Life 2 I have not played.

Halo? From the names of medals in online multiplayer, to the comic actions and dialogue of your enemies, to the online community and the "teabagging" sensation that took the world by storm...

Resistance? Aliens coming down during World War II? And you get a bunch of guns and shoot them up? This doesn't seem at all childish to you?

Your implication that generous violence is exclusive of childishness is absolutely silly. Go watch SAW and tell me the movie is not childish BECAUSE of its generous violence.

If your definition of "maturity" is "something that would warrante a 'Mature' rating", then I suppose you'd be a little off in your recognition of childish things.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']Half-Life 2 I have not played.

Halo? From the names of medals in online multiplayer, to the comic actions and dialogue of your enemies, to the online community and the "teabagging" sensation that took the world by storm...

Resistance? Aliens coming down during World War II? And you get a bunch of guns and shoot them up? This doesn't seem at all childish to you?[/quote]Ah, I'd never played Resistance so I don't know much of anything about that.

The online component of Halo I could see that being argued, but I think the single player is actually a fairly decent example of a truly "mature" game, along with Half-Life 2. Having moments of humor doesn't make it a Disney movie in my point of view.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']No it wasn't. I'm well aware of that point, and I agree with it.

The vast majority of games are childish, as such is is quite reasonable to call videogames, as a whole, "childish".

If 99.9999% of the time someone is a dick, it would be reasonable to call them, on the whole, a dick.


Though right now I'm still struggling to name a single videogame that isn't childish, so that 99.9999% example might be a bit too generous.


[/quote]




Age of Empires, SimCity, Pharoah, Snatcher, Virtual Pool. Civilization, Command and Conquer, Alpha Centauri, StarCraft, Medal of Honor, StarLancer, Pac Man CE, Ico, Resident Evil, Tetris, Indigo Prophecy, Fatal Frame, Rule of Rose, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Flight Simulator, Gran Turismo, Aerobiz, Liberty or Death, Monopoly, Rez...

Those are just from the top of my head.
 
I should point out Guile ripped me completely out of context.
[quote name='Guile']If people want to act like kids then they should expect to be treated as such.[/quote][quote name='PyroGamer']Says the grown man who still plays videogames (and Street Fighter, at that).[/quote][quote name='Guile']Ok? I really don't know what that statement was trying to accomplish.[/quote][quote name='PyroGamer']If you don't expect people who play childish and immature videogames to sometimes have childish and immature Gamer Mottos, then you're a stuck-up idiot. [/quote][quote name='Guile']Also, if you want to stick by the statement that...

"We should expect immature, childish behavior from what you consider immature,childish games...."

Just realize that is the SAME argument Jack Thompson uses about violent games producing violent behavior in people.

Both of your are saying games influence behavior.[/quote][quote name='PyroGamer']No I'm not. I'm saying playing videogames IS childish behavior.[/quote]

Okay, so I start off by saying "You should expect childish behaviour from people who play childish games"... then Guille tells me "So you're saying videogames influence behaviour?" and I say, "No, playing videogames IS childish behaviour"

Now, what was I talking about? Let's look at the context: I was talking about CHILDISH videogames. Of course someone who plays childish videogames is childish, and as such "sometimes" one such person could be expected to "sometimes" behave childishly.

In fact, throughout I concede the possibility of relatively "unchildish" videogames. Though we should remember, the person who BROUGHT UP "unchildish" videogames was GUILE. It was never my intent to discuss anything other than specifically "childish" videogames.


The amazing thing is that my original point, which was the hypocracy of someone like Guile accusing someone else of being childish, has been twisted into making some out-of-context declaration that videogaming as a whole is childish.
 
I don't think video game are inherently childish, by their nature they are just a more interactive form of entertainment. I think the medium was branded childish, because it was popularized by a younger genaration, and early in its history games were very cartoonish in appearance.

Unfortunately it will be difficult to break the stigma that has developed over the years, and for the most part the industry isn't helping itself. The biggest misconception I see with current games is that video games are now more mature because of their violence. Sure they get a "mature" rating, but the exploration of themes involved in the violence is still generally childish. We've gone from the stories made for kids (Marios and Zeldas), to stories made for prepubescent boys (generic, but popularly referred to as epic, action games with one dimensional characters, simple themes, violence for the sake of violence, etc). But all of this just deals with the stories attached to games.

The Halos and Resistances of the world certainly aren't the answer for gaming maturity. Bioshock did delve into some deeper subject matters like objectivism, but I would say it just scratched the surface. There isn't anything childish about the brain puzzles in a game like Portal and its use of physics.
 
They're only "childish" in the sense that playing games can often revive the curiosity and imagination most people displayed as children, but have lost as adults. Games are definitely not just for kids or for those who have failed to "grow up", so they aren't childish at all in the traditional sense of the word.
 
Are games childish?

Does anyone ask, are movies childish? Is listening to music childish?

When are we going to move past the 'games are for kids' stigma?

Videogames are another form of entertainment, just like movies, music, books, sports, etc.

And just like those other forms of media, they can be childish, if they are aimed at children, but they can also be very adult. You cant lump all videogames together. There are movies and books for kids, and movies and books that kids should never see or read.
 
[quote name='Shivy']To me, that's the same as asking whether film is childish or not. games are stories. Interactive stories, and like film they offer a variety of depths. Even games that don't have a specific story (Smash Brothers, for example) are a tool for the player to createe their own stories as their gameplay experience comes together.

Games need to be seen more along the lines of books, film, and theater.[/QUOTE]


Smash Bros. lets the gamer make his own story? You're reaching a little too far there...

You people have to stop comparing games to movies and books as if it lends legitimacy to videogaming. Most popular film and fiction is also mindless, time wasting self-gratification. Here is a gun, shoot everything and move to the next level. Wow, his head exploded and his body fell like a rag doll, didn't that look cool! Oh, Darcy's cheating on Jim but Jim's cheating with Bruce.

"Child-ish" can be applied to 99% of all our media content in todays world regardless if it's interactive or not. So, no, there is no simple "yes or no" answer to the question. Asking if videogames are childish is like asking if guns are inherently murderous. It has everything to do with the behavior of the user, not the object.

I'm sure childish people like to play childish games, watch childish movies, read childish books and do many other childish things to avoid a productive adult livelihood. When someone prefers a life of gaming masturbation to intellectual stimulation, then we should speak of childish things. But heck, everybody jerks off once in a while.
 
People who would actually say that all videogames are childish are just ashamed of their hobby and feel like they need to insult themselves for liking it to preempt someone else saying it, somehow thinking they'll save face by "being aware" while all the other loser nerds have no idea how childish they are, but it's okay for you, because you "are aware" and admit it.

Grow up. Games are fun, why all this posturing? Pryo needs to work on that insecurity.
 
[quote name='linkpwns']I think it's childish that you made a thread about you and Pyrogamer's argument from another thread to get people to side with you....[/QUOTE]

Oi. The internet has really destroyed logic and thinking skills over the year. Guile made this thread for input. Hell, he even went as far as to it call the spat with Pyro a "discussion" when everyone who read the original thread realized it was Pyro being a complete and utter douche (Though, truth be told I didn't read past my comments. Mostly because it finally gave me enough justification to block Pyro).

Guile didn't start the topic by saying "I had an internet fight and I need proof I'm right." He didn't even post the original thread for nearly 10 minutes and only then so people see what exactly prompted Guile's interest in the topic.

Blimey.

And to answer, no. The content of a game is irrevelant to whether its "childish" or not. To have such a narrowminded view to liken something like Bioshock to painted wooden blocks is absurd. The only reason a game could be considered "childish" is because the person applying the label refuses to view it as something more than a painted wooden block.

How many look past the artistic quality of something like Walt Disney's Sleeping Beauty because its "childish"? To keep such a narrowminded view only hurts you as a person.
 
Pyro,

Though, I agree with you that M games can be childish, I would offer these games instead

Metal Gear Solid 2
Metal Gear Solid 3
Ico
Puzzle Quest
Geomety Wars

Just to name 5 here. Radically different games, but I wouldn't call any of these games "childish".

What is really bad here is that, in the 80's, video games were a toy. Yet, now, they really are a form of media, holding their stories in the same lines as books and movies. Some are good, the vast majority of them are bad.

Yet, 99.9% of games being childish is a touch brash. That would be the same as me saying that 99.9% of movies are really porn. Hey, most of them have pretty women in them and they try to entice men, so why not just call it porn?

Just because someone is shot in a game and it's violent doesn't make it kiddy.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']You people have to stop comparing games to movies and books as if it lends legitimacy to videogaming. Most popular film and fiction is also mindless, time wasting self-gratification. Here is a gun, shoot everything and move to the next level. Wow, his head exploded and his body fell like a rag doll, didn't that look cool! Oh, Darcy's cheating on Jim but Jim's cheating with Bruce. [/QUOTE]THANK YOU!!! This is exactly what I mean: 99.9% of film, music, books and television is childish. But the fact is, even with the childish junk, there are so many films, so much music, and so many books (even a bit of television) that are uplifting, productive, artistic, and of real value.

I cannot say the same thing for videogames. And I certainly can't say that someone who plays videogames manages to skip over every single childish videogame and play the 0.001% of games that aren't childish.

I can watch film, I can read litterature, I can listen to music, and completely ignore the childish stuff. And I do! But I try to do that with videogaming and I must admit it's impossible. This stuff is laughably childish. I mean, it's improving, it has potential, but it's still very childish.

I think it perfectly reasonable to say, as I did, that being a videogamer requires you to regularly engage in childish behaviour.

Did I say this is a terrible bad thing? A scourge on our society? HELL NO. I am a fucking videogamer for christ's sake! There is nothing wrong with a bit of childishness. But when it comes to crying over someone else having a childish Gamer motto while you yourself gain pleasure from wasting away time shooting up virtual cops (as Guile was doing), that is simply too ironic to pass over without noting.

[quote name='terribledeli']How many look past the artistic quality of something like Walt Disney's Sleeping Beauty because its "childish"? To keep such a narrowminded view only hurts you as a person.[/QUOTE]
That's a very ignorant and offensive statement. Sleeping Beauty is one of my favorite films of all time. It's art, and it's far from childish.

[quote name='terribledeli']And to answer, no. The content of a game is irrevelant to whether its "childish" or not. To have such a narrowminded view to liken something like Bioshock to painted wooden blocks is absurd. The only reason a game could be considered "childish" is because the person applying the label refuses to view it as something more than a painted wooden block.[/QUOTE]
None of that made any sense whatsoever.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']
The vast majority of games are childish, as such is is quite reasonable to call videogames, as a whole, "childish".
[/quote]
The vast majority of music out today sucks, as such is is[sic on purpose] reasonable to call music, as a whole, "sucky."

The vast majority of animated features out today are childish and educational, as such is is quite reasonable to call animated features, as a whole, "childish."

The vast majority of stereotypes today are wrong, as such it may be somewhat reasonable to call most stereotypical staments "wrong by default?"

Oooh, self-awareness in logical fallacies for the win!
 
[quote name='MarioColbert']The vast majority of music out today sucks, as such is is[sic on purpose] reasonable to call music, as a whole, "sucky."

The vast majority of animated features out today are childish and educational, as such is is quite reasonable to call animated features, as a whole, "childish."[/QUOTE]
I'd agree with both these statements.

If the vast majority of music today sucks, then music today, as a whole, sucks. If it's true, as you say, that the vast majority of animated films today suck, then animated films today, as a whole, suck.

You have a problem with these statements? I don't. You even admit that they are true!

"Videogames are childish" =/= "Videogames are inherently incapable of being anything but childish"

"sic on purpose", as opposed to "sic accidentally"?

[quote name='bmulligan']So, no, there is no simple "yes or no" answer to the question.[/QUOTE]
Another point I should make: when I said "videogames are childish" in that other thread, I was using that phrase specifically, in the context of my argument. I agree there is no simple "yes or no" answer to the question, I think it could be argued both ways depending on your definitions, but in the context of my argument everything I said (besides the uncalled for insults I've apologized to Guile for) was quite reasonable and logical. The fact that Guile has effectively ripped me out of context with this thread and ignored the actual point I was making in the earlier thread is unfortunate.
 
Then, you don't mind if I paraphrase your statements as:

FACT: Music sucks.
FACT: Animated movies are childish.

If that is correct (and even if it isn't), I can not fathom as to why anyone cares to argue with your opinion as to whether or not Video Games are childish. Furthermore, I find it even harder to fathom why someone cares enough to try to change your opinion in any way. I imagine that you're probably in your twenties at the very least, which means that you've spent at least twenty years arriving to your conclusion. There is no truth to be uncovered, no universal rule to arrive to, only some people to insult for no good reason.


Now, I've seen you argue before, and I want to make it clear: I am not saying that I don't give a shit what your opinion is, or saying that you're so dumb, that everyone that argues with you is stupid. All I'm saying is: you feel quite strongly about something, and anyone who thinks that they can change your mind about this are on crack.

Now, I do believe you to be wrong, but my bullshit opinion is nowhere near pompous enough to claim to have rendered YOURS obsolete somehow.
 
Pyro, a majority of evidence still doesn't make a sweeping generalization true. Even more when you're talking something as wholly subjective as this.
 
This arguement is childish.

And pyro is just too insecure to simply enjoy something without labeling it. If something's fun, who cares? Not me.
 
[quote name='jer7583']This arguement is childish.

And pyro is just too insecure to simply enjoy something without labeling it. If something's fun, who cares? Not me.[/quote]Yet the other side is, is it automatically not childish if you enjoy it? Nope.

Like I said, this is all totally subjective (Is it childish? Is childish good/bad?) and a pretty unprofitable dicussion, even for the internet.
 
[quote name='PyroGamer']T... But the fact is, even with the childish junk there are so many films, so much music, and so many books (even a bit of television) that are uplifting, productive, artistic, and of real value.

I cannot say the same thing for videogames. And I certainly can't say that someone who plays videogames manages to skip over every single childish videogame and play the 0.001% of games that aren't childish.

I can watch film, I can read litterature, I can listen to music, and completely ignore the childish stuff. And I do! But I try to do that with videogaming and I must admit it's impossible. This stuff is laughably childish. I mean, it's improving, it has potential, but it's still very childish...
[/QUOTE]


I would agree with you that videogames lag far behind other media in artistic or other redeeming value. The reason is that 99% of videogames have a premise of nothing more than : "take this gun and kill/defeat everyone in the room; move to the next room; rinse; repeat." They challenge thumb reflex response and hand/eye coordination, not thoughts, moral beliefs or philosophy as books can. Until they come up with different forms of gameplay besides point-shoot-collect, games will always be viewed as immature, and rightly so.

Games like Indigo Prophecy, Ico, and some others come close to being at par with other forms of media and, at least, break from the norm of the typical videogame experience. But by far, the vast majority of games are suitable for the intellect of an 8 year old.
 
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