Ariz. governor signs immigration enforcement bill

[quote name='thrustbucket']This is what happens when the Federal Government completely ignores one of the top 5 political issues to most Americans for more than a decade.[/QUOTE]

100% agree. even though, as i said earlier, i think this law is too broad, congress and the white house havent touched this issue. ask anyone in california, arizona, new mexico and texas to name their biggest concerns for the state and illegal immigration is going to pop up every single time. if anything, hopefully this will spur congress to pass some common sense immigration reform. or ya know, at least enforce existing laws.
 
Yeah I am not sure this bill AZ passed is the answer, or if it will help their problem - but at the very least it will, perhaps, wake up Congress and force them to address the one important issue that may not help their reelections.
 
[quote name='xycury']State issued ID?

Any form of photo identification, but that doesn't really count for citizenship unless maybe a passport.


Seems to be the only solution is either A) State mandated IDs B) Citizenship IDs[/QUOTE]
Yea, that's the problem. State IDs don't confer citizenship status.

I don't really grief Arizona for wanting to do something about this issue that seems to be such a big deal for them (we in Texas don't really give a shit, at least here in sanctuary city Houston). But the cure is going to cost the state millions in litigation and they're going to lose badly and the worst part is they know it.
 
[quote name='xycury']State issued ID?

Any form of photo identification, but that doesn't really count for citizenship unless maybe a passport.


Seems to be the only solution is either A) State mandated IDs B) Citizenship IDs[/QUOTE]

So what about children? When was the last time you've seen someone that is 16 or younger carrying around a state id? More importantly, would you trust them to have them all the time?

Speed, hell even Birth Certificates don't confer citizenship all the time. I may be related to illegal immigrants but I still refuse to admit that two illegals having a kid in America = American citizen.
 
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[quote name='speedracer']Yea, that's the problem. State IDs don't confer citizenship status.

I don't really grief Arizona for wanting to do something about this issue that seems to be such a big deal for them (we in Texas don't really give a shit, at least here in sanctuary city Houston). But the cure is going to cost the state millions in litigation and they're going to lose badly and the worst part is they know it.[/QUOTE]

I agree. It's not really a State issue and only got that far because they've been sitting on the problem.


[quote name='cindersphere']So what about children? When was the last time you've seen someone that is 16 or younger carrying around a state id? More importantly, would you trust them to have them all the time?[/QUOTE]

Yes, they too would get IDs, that would also help a bunch of other issues too if valid IDs can be found.

Simply do what people do when they lose their driver's, pay the insane $35 reissue. Get kids to get on their phones to call their parents... to validate ID.

It's not the problem of replacing it, it's the problem of initially getting one. Once you're in, you're fine. Police can look you up.

I doubt Police are targeting kids. We're not having an illegal kid problem.... it's illegal adults.


I would say the easiest is the "new" SSN card... State issued cards really won't work, unless Federal cards don't get passed somehow, and states are forced to.

I really have no problem carrying an ID, and I don't see how anyone else would either. Any issues? Anyone?
 
[quote name='xycury']Yes, they too would get IDs, that would also help a bunch of other issues too if valid IDs can be found.

Simply do what people do when they lose their driver's, pay the insane $35 reissue. Get kids to get on their phones to call their parents... to validate ID.

It's not the problem of replacing it, it's the problem of initially getting one. Once you're in, you're fine. Police can look you up.

I doubt Police are targeting kids. We're not having an illegal kid problem.... it's illegal adults.


I would say the easiest is the "new" SSN card... State issued cards really won't work, unless Federal cards don't get passed somehow, and states are forced to.

I really have no problem carrying an ID, and I don't see how anyone else would either. Any issues? Anyone?[/QUOTE]

I don't really have a problem with it myself, as long as everyone is getting checked all of the time. I mean everyone too. While we're at it, I want people to be checked for outstanding warrants and past due tax bills if we're going to say it's about crime and money.
 
Don't really have anything to add that hasn't already been said. Just a stupid, stupid bill.

Will just lead to more racial profiling of hispanics. Reasonable suspicion--the requirement to make a stop--is vague already. Even more so when you add illegall immigration as a possible reason for a stop etc.

Making illegal immigration a state crime is dumb as well. The CJ system is already incredibly overwhelmed and over crowded at every step.
 
[quote name='xycury']I agree. It's not really a State issue and only got that far because they've been sitting on the problem.




Yes, they too would get IDs, that would also help a bunch of other issues too if valid IDs can be found.

Simply do what people do when they lose their driver's, pay the insane $35 reissue. Get kids to get on their phones to call their parents... to validate ID.

It's not the problem of replacing it, it's the problem of initially getting one. Once you're in, you're fine. Police can look you up.

I doubt Police are targeting kids. We're not having an illegal kid problem.... it's illegal adults.


I would say the easiest is the "new" SSN card... State issued cards really won't work, unless Federal cards don't get passed somehow, and states are forced to.

I really have no problem carrying an ID, and I don't see how anyone else would either. Any issues? Anyone?[/QUOTE]

Kids already get targeted to disclose immigration status. This will just give immigration happy schools authority to try to glean immigration information from their parents when they enter their kids into schools. Little johnny doesn't have a official id card yet, lets call the INS office and report the family because he could be an illegal immigrant.
 
I guess I am curious for realz (though my post was mostly for lulz) if the bill applies to other types of immigrants. If we hear an "aboot" can they ask to see their papers? I can't imagine the bill is specifically only for one type of immigrant, but I just can't get the hillarious mental picture out of my head of a cop asking for a Canadian's papers. Well, the mental picture of a cop doing it for a Mexican is funny too, but you know what I mean.
 
The only part I'm opposed to is that citizens can sue their local government if they don't think immigration laws are being upheld. There are going to be a lot of assholes out there that will be suing the mayor every week. I actually think it's a solid idea. I've never understood the viewpoint that as a nation, we should allow illegal immigration. If we're tacitly supporting it, is it still illegal?
 
[quote name='cindersphere']Kids already get targeted to disclose immigration status. This will just give immigration happy schools authority to try to glean immigration information from their parents when they enter their kids into schools. Little johnny doesn't have a official id card yet, lets call the INS office and report the family because he could be an illegal immigrant.[/QUOTE]

Should it be up to the school? it is funded by the big G and well they really shouldn't be here....

If the parents came here illegally, and birthed a child that would be US born, they have 3 options.

1) get out, with kid.
2) get out, kid becomes an orphan
3) somehow by magic, they'll go through the process to not be illegal.


I am kinda on the fence. If you're here illegally, you really don't get my mercy but if it's that difficult, which I know, I sponsored someone, that process should be a bit easier.


Little Johnny is at the mercy of bad parents. If they somehow went to a private school, then the school wouldn't care.

I would think that for any government services that's need, proper ID is requried... welfare, section 8, SS, blah blah blah. We already passed that in this state.

Illegal is still illegal.
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']I guess I am curious for realz (though my post was mostly for lulz) if the bill applies to other types of immigrants. If we hear an "aboot" can they ask to see their papers? I can't imagine the bill is specifically only for one type of immigrant, but I just can't get the hillarious mental picture out of my head of a cop asking for a Canadian's papers. Well, the mental picture of a cop doing it for a Mexican is funny too, but you know what I mean.[/QUOTE]

of course its for all immigrants. people are just upset that it will unfairly target the hispanic population. i mean, hispanics account for about 75% or so of illegal immigrants so its pretty obvious theyll be targeted.
 
[quote name='cindersphere']Supreme Court says they should and have to be there regardless of status.[/QUOTE]

And they can appeal to INS, but that requires money and lawyers.

They have none, thus they a go-go out.

It needs reform. There is no win in this... just more BS.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']of course its for all immigrants. people are just upset that it will unfairly target the hispanic population. i mean, hispanics account for about 75% or so of illegal immigrants so its pretty obvious theyll be targeted.[/QUOTE]

Yep. For the most part, outside of Hispanics, no other nationalities/ethnic groups get hit with the "illegal immigrants are criminals" stereotypes.

So this will only increase racial profiling of Hispanics.
 
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actually we're all american, if you go by continental nomenclature. but we aren't all amurrrkanstarsnstripesnationundergawdya'll.
 
[quote name='cindersphere']Kids already get targeted to disclose immigration status. This will just give immigration happy schools authority to try to glean immigration information from their parents when they enter their kids into schools. Little johnny doesn't have a official id card yet, lets call the INS office and report the family because he could be an illegal immigrant.[/QUOTE]

Only if the school wants to lose funding. I read this article about school complaining parents using fake address to get their kids enroll, but dont want to kick them out since fewer students means they get less funding.
 
Anti-immigration assholes always find new targets, at one time even Irish immigrants were thought of as scum, when was the last time you heard anyone say "dem Irish are takin' our jerbs." They always find new targets.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']Anti-illegal immigrant assholes always find new targets, at one time even Irish illegal immigrants were thought of as scum, when was the last time you heard anyone say "dem Irish are takin' our jerbs." They always find new targets.[/QUOTE]

Fixed for accuracy.

Most people don't mind immigrants. Most people mind law-breakers.

As much as some like you might wish - nobody is passing laws because they want less brown people; but for some reason that's the paintbrush used on those that want laws enforced by the bleeding heart left.

If only the tea party protesters got at least this out of control: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn0HdZlIDKQ
We'd have several days of headlines and an entire week of John Stewart's pretentious ranting over it.
 
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...

Y'know The Daily Show dedicated about half an episode to talking about the "crazy tea partiers" thing was a media-created image, right?
 
If only we could see if people would be as pissed off about illegal white Europeans being here.

But no, to me it seems that these people are using the law as cover for what they really want, mainly for immigration to be slowed or halted altogether. Because whenever i hear someone up in arms about jobs being taken away, i never hear them say illegal Mexicans, it's just Mexicans. Which in and of itself is ridiculous, as if all hispanic people were from Mexico.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Fixed for accuracy.

Most people don't mind immigrants. Most people mind law-breakers.
[/QUOTE]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ow_Nothing.jpg/200px-Citizen_Know_Nothing.jpg

200px-Citizen_Know_Nothing.jpg
 
Those police officers walking with someone they had arrested was a "violent riot" based on the title? And evidence, according to thrust, that the protest was "out of control"?

Come the fuck on. Hatebreed concerts are more out of control than that. fuck, black friday sales are more violent than that. That was one person being arrested and walked away by police while a whole bunch of other people followed.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Those police officers walking with someone they had arrested was a "violent riot" based on the title? And evidence, according to thrust, that the protest was "out of control"?

Come the fuck on. Hatebreed concerts are more out of control than that. fuck, black friday sales are more violent than that. That was one person being arrested and walked away by police while a whole bunch of other people followed.[/QUOTE]

Agreed, that video could have been mistaken for the "Walk for a Cure to (insert some horrible affliction)".
 
[quote name='JolietJake']If only we could see if people would be as pissed off about illegal white Europeans being here.

But no, to me it seems that these people are using the law as cover for what they really want, mainly for immigration to be slowed or halted altogether. Because whenever i hear someone up in arms about jobs being taken away, i never hear them say illegal Mexicans, it's just Mexicans. Which in and of itself is ridiculous, as if all hispanic people were from Mexico.[/QUOTE]

I personally haven't heard anyone complaining about immigration using "mexicans stealing jobs" in their language. I'm not say it's not out there, but I hear an awful lot of people claiming that's what is said, but I've never heard anyone really say it.

Most people are not upset at the illegal immigrants themselves. They are upset at the government for refusing to enforce their own laws. The illegal immigrants are just taking advantage of the giant 5 decade "wink wink" from the US government, and why shouldn't they?

You can come here illegally and not only be winked at but defended by most of the left, or you can try to come here legally and spend several years and thousands of dollars you likely don't have. Hard choice.

[quote name='mykevermin']Those police officers walking with someone they had arrested was a "violent riot" based on the title? And evidence, according to thrust, that the protest was "out of control"?

Come the fuck on. Hatebreed concerts are more out of control than that. fuck, black friday sales are more violent than that. That was one person being arrested and walked away by police while a whole bunch of other people followed.[/QUOTE]

Walking? They were throwing shit at the cops. Or did you miss that? If any sort of contention with cops happened at a Tea Party rally it would be big news. As one to wear his "racial issue witchunt" patch on his arm proudly, you should know this.
 
[quote name='JolietJake']If only we could see if people would be as pissed off about illegal white Europeans being here.

But no, to me it seems that these people are using the law as cover for what they really want, mainly for immigration to be slowed or halted altogether. Because whenever i hear someone up in arms about jobs being taken away, i never hear them say illegal Mexicans, it's just Mexicans. Which in and of itself is ridiculous, as if all hispanic people were from Mexico.[/QUOTE]


Agreed. There are plenty who are just opposed to illegal immigration, want better border security etc.

But there are also plenty who'd just like immigration slowed or halted period for racist reasons. These are the types who want these types of laws, tight border security and stricter immigration allowances and would never go for the real solution of tigher border security and more liberal immigration policies to let more Hispanics in legally.
 
Well the video is actually only about 30 seconds long, then it repeats and then starts to repeat again.

People are definitely throwing some shit in various directions, probably towards the cops. To call it a riot seems a bit melodramatic though.
 
throwing a cup, or a crumpled bag isn't a riot. protest maybe?

when I think of riot... damage, personal or private, people throwing rocks or bricks for intended harm.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Better find another video, the one you posted and the one you think you saw are not the same.[/QUOTE]

throwing things at cops, not cool. thrust is right, if this happened at a tea party rally, boy oh boy youd never hear the end of it.

[quote name='xycury']throwing a cup, or a crumpled bag isn't a riot. protest maybe?

when I think of riot... damage, personal or private, people throwing rocks or bricks for intended harm.[/QUOTE]

try throwing a crumbled bag at a cop next time you see one and see what happens, if he seems upset just say youre protesting something. though i wouldnt recommend doing it unless you have a few thousand people with you.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']I personally haven't heard anyone complaining about immigration using "mexicans stealing jobs" in their language. I'm not say it's not out there, but I hear an awful lot of people claiming that's what is said, but I've never heard anyone really say it.

Most people are not upset at the illegal immigrants themselves. They are upset at the government for refusing to enforce their own laws. The illegal immigrants are just taking advantage of the giant 5 decade "wink wink" from the US government, and why shouldn't they?

You can come here illegally and not only be winked at but defended by most of the left, or you can try to come here legally and spend several years and thousands of dollars you likely don't have. Hard choice.



Walking? They were throwing shit at the cops. Or did you miss that? If any sort of contention with cops happened at a Tea Party rally it would be big news. As one to wear his "racial issue witchunt" patch on his arm proudly, you should know this.[/QUOTE]

Eh, I just think it depends where you're located. The news seems to report favorably towards the Tea Party in Indiana as far as I see, they don't knock them or anything, which is fine, they have a right to protest. Also, I've heard the "Mexicans stealing our jobs" quite a bit here.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Fixed for accuracy.

Most people don't mind immigrants. Most people mind law-breakers.

As much as some like you might wish - nobody is passing laws because they want less brown people; but for some reason that's the paintbrush used on those that want laws enforced by the bleeding heart left.

If only the tea party protesters got at least this out of control: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pn0HdZlIDKQ
We'd have several days of headlines and an entire week of John Stewart's pretentious ranting over it.[/QUOTE]

Tiananmen square protesters were more confrontational than this and that is considered a peaceful protest. Man when tea partiers attacked non teabaggers man that must have been a brutal bloodbath. :roll:
 
[quote name='docvinh']Eh, I just think it depends where you're located. The news seems to report favorably towards the Tea Party in Indiana as far as I see, they don't knock them or anything, which is fine, they have a right to protest. Also, I've heard the "Mexicans stealing our jobs" quite a bit here.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I've heard the "mexicans are stealing our jobs", "mainly criminals are crossing the boarders" etc. pretty often when visting my folks in WV. And that's a place that has very little immigrant population and is one of the whitest states in the country. Also here it some here in Georgia when I make the mistake of venturing out of Atlanta.

It seems to be a pretty common view among under educated, lower class whites in my experience.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']It seems to be a pretty common view among under educated, lower class whites in my experience.[/QUOTE]

Unskilled laborers have a hard time displacing people with PhDs or high school diplomas.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Unskilled laborers have a hard time displacing people with PhDs or high school diplomas.[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

But they could still complain about illegal immigrants taking their jobs and not "Mexicans" taken their jobs.

But unfortunately ignorance in the form of lack of education and cultural experience is highly correlated with ignorance in the form of racism etc.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Yeah, I've heard the "mexicans are stealing our jobs", "mainly criminals are crossing the boarders" etc. pretty often when visting my folks in WV. And that's a place that has very little immigrant population and is one of the whitest states in the country. Also here it some here in Georgia when I make the mistake of venturing out of Atlanta.

It seems to be a pretty common view among under educated, lower class whites in my experience.[/QUOTE]
I hear it from my father all the time, has no idea why it bothers me either, despite trying to explain it to him.

I think i said this before, but he's one of the holdout dixiecrats basically.Only votes democrat because of support for labor unions. Here in the south i hear Mexicans used all the time, i hardly ever hear anyone say illegal immigrant/alien.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']throwing things at cops, not cool. thrust is right, if this happened at a tea party rally, boy oh boy youd never hear the end of it.



try throwing a crumbled bag at a cop next time you see one and see what happens, if he seems upset just say youre protesting something. though i wouldnt recommend doing it unless you have a few thousand people with you.[/QUOTE]

It's not cool, but that's it.

A police officer going off on a paper bag is not professional. And the only law broken would be littering.

Hell, bad concerts do that all the time, throwing shit, and they are not "rioting" They may have bad attitudes and rude, but not rioting.

The only difference is they found trash to throw and not picket signs. Video shows nothing really. It'll be more interesting to see what happens after they drag that guy in a police car.


Where's that video of that old bastard walking through the crowd and the sign states SINGLE PAYER NOW... and the crowd is yelling throwing shit... oh they be a rioting... come on.
 
[quote name='xycury']Where's that video of that old bastard walking through the crowd and the sign states SINGLE PAYER NOW... and the crowd is yelling throwing shit... oh they be a rioting... come on.[/QUOTE]

Really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgZDYNQEwlM&feature=youtube_gdata

I don't remember tea party protesters throwing water bottles at police officers or anyone getting arrested. How many Tea Party protests have there been around the country?
 
right hand: we gots guns, come get it bitches!

left hand: OMFG YOU THREW A BOTTLE OF WATER AT ME

make up your minds, shit

feigning that tea dumblicans were any nicer at their rallies is HILARIOUS by the way
 
Strell - which Tea Party protest ended with someone getting arrested for assaulting an officer of the law? Or assaulting anyone?
 
well it certainly wasn't the ones where people yelled out $$$$$$ and $$$$$$ and threw dollar bills in the face of a disabled veteran, now wasn't it?

don't sweat it too much though. maybe the arizona gov can sign a bill to deport water bottle throwers next.
 
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