As Lehman was going under, millions were shuttled to execs

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WASHINGTON - Days from becoming the largest bankruptcy in U.S. history, Lehman Brothers steered millions to departing executives even while pleading for a federal rescue, Congress was told Monday.
As well, executives who feared for their bonuses in the company's last months were told not to worry, according to documents cited at a congressional hearing. One executive said he was embarrassed when employees suggested that Lehman executives forgo bonuses, and cracked: "I'm not sure what's in the water."
...
Waxman read excerpts from Lehman documents in which a recommendation that top management should forgo bonuses was apparently brushed aside. He also cited a Sept. 11 request to Lehman's compensation board that three executives leaving the company be given $20 million in "special payments."
"In other words, even as Mr. Fuld was pleading with Secretary Paulson for a federal rescue, Lehman continued to squander millions on executive compensation," Waxman said before Fuld appeared as a witness.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081006/ap_on_go_co/meltdown_lehman

Where else in life can you fail so miserably and be rewarded so handsomely. Truly strange times we live in.
 
[quote name='camoor']http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081006/ap_on_go_co/meltdown_lehman

Where else in life can you fail so miserably and be rewarded so handsomely. Truly strange times we live in.[/QUOTE]

It's beyond being rewarded for failure. It's akin more to rewarding bank robbers by giving them the banks.

All I know is, if Americans aren't going to grab their torches and pitchforks and storm Washington over this, they never will.

Then you have countries like Ecuador, where even the slightest hint of corruption in the government, and the citizens literally storm the gov buildings and peacefully throw them out, and install new leaders.

Sad indeed.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']It's beyond being rewarded for failure. It's akin more to rewarding bank robbers by giving them the banks.

All I know is, if Americans aren't going to grab their torches and pitchforks and storm Washington over this, they never will.

Then you have countries like Ecuador, where even the slightest hint of corruption in the government, and the citizens literally storm the gov buildings and peacefully throw them out, and install new leaders.

Sad indeed.[/quote]

Like Avery Brooks said in Deep Space Nine (paraphrased), "Sometimes a house becomes so infested with rats, that you can't simply get rid of the rats, but you have to tear down the house."
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']Like Avery Brooks said in Deep Space Nine (paraphrased), "Sometimes a house becomes so infested with rats, that you can't simply get rid of the rats, but you have to tear down the house."[/QUOTE]
I thought it was termites.
 
All major companies do this. I'm not saying it's right or fair, but if you knew your company was about to lose all of its assets you'd do the same thing. I find it funny that people see this and are literally shocked. My response is always: *Stan's voice* "Really?"
 
[quote name='Friend of Sonic']I thought it was termites.[/quote]


That's why I said paraphrased, those people in Washington are more like rats. ;)
 
[quote name='GuilewasNK']That's why I said paraphrased, those people in Washington are more like rats. ;)[/QUOTE]
Ahhhha! I see what you did there! My apologies.
Good usage of Sisko. Most underated captain evar.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']They rarely get any.


Hurricanes coming from the West are pretty rare. They can get earthquakes though.[/quote]

I was thinking about moving there.

Assuming I could dump all of my debts, what is the middle to lower upper class income for Ecuador?

Could my wife and I live like doctors on $8/hour Internet jobs?

Could I mine gold with an online game and survive?
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']I was thinking about moving there.

Assuming I could dump all of my debts, what is the middle to lower upper class income for Ecuador?

Could my wife and I live like doctors on $8/hour Internet jobs?

Could I mine gold with an online game and survive?[/quote]


ehh just become a hunter/gatherer its much more easy going existence.
 
nowai.jpg


Seriously, this should surprise no one.
 
[quote name='Ikohn4ever']ehh just become a hunter/gatherer its much more easy going existence.[/quote]

It is hard to enroll your children in schools in you live in a VW bus.

After the kids are grown ... I guess I'll argue with the wife.
 
Reality's Fringe;4945532 said:
All major companies do this. I'm not saying it's right or fair, but if you knew your company was about to lose all of its assets you'd do the same thing. I find it funny that people see this and are literally shocked. My response is always: *Stan's voice* "Really?"
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I don't agree.

First: If you're a small business-owner and you pay yourself the remainder of your ledger as a "bonus" immediately before declaring bankruptcy, it's called bankruptcy fraud. Normal people don't do it because they don't want to spend years in court or the pokey. But you multiply this 1000 times (causing a financial meltdown in the process) and all you get is a stern talking-to from congress.

Second: Lehman Brothers Holding Inc was not a private bank account for the executives. It was not their company in the manner in which you are implying. Unfortunately you are partially correct in one respect -- any major company with a weak and collusive board of directors (IE most of them) will allow their executives to operate in a similar manner.

Third: Who's shocked?
 
[quote name='camoor']I don't agree.

First: If you're a small business-owner and you pay yourself the remainder of your ledger as a "bonus" immediately before declaring bankruptcy, it's called bankruptcy fraud. Normal people don't do it because they don't want to spend years in court or the pokey. But you multiply this 1000 times (causing a financial meltdown in the process) and all you get is a stern talking-to from congress.

Second: Lehman Brothers Holding Inc was not a private bank account for the executives. It was not their company in the manner in which you are implying. Unfortunately you are partially correct in one respect -- any major company with a weak and collusive board of directors (IE most of them) will allow their executives to operate in a similar manner.

Third: Who's shocked?[/QUOTE]


You can't do it with a small business because a small business (sole proprietor) has 100% liability. When you incorporate, bankruptcy applies to assets still in the company (minus a few things) since it is now a separate entity.

Of course it wasn't -their- company in the sense that it was "owned" by the shareholders, but they're the ones calling the shots so they effectively own it in the sense I'm referring to.

And you'd be surprised how many people news like this still surprises.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']I was thinking about moving there.

Assuming I could dump all of my debts, what is the middle to lower upper class income for Ecuador?

Could my wife and I live like doctors on $8/hour Internet jobs?

Could I mine gold with an online game and survive?[/QUOTE]

Why dump your debt? Your credit is irrelevant outside the country :) Give yourself a bailout package when you move.

It heavily depends on where you live, as to the cost of living. You can live comfortably and securely, though, on $1000 a month, possibly $800.
 
Reality's Fringe;4946527]You can't do it with a small business because a small business (sole proprietor) has 100% liability. When you incorporate said:
I'll be honest and say I don't know the details of corporate bankruptcy but I figured it worked something like that. I'll tell you what though - IMO it's more evidence that small business owners live by a different set of rules from the corporate titans.

We all know people like this, but I hope you're not implying we would all act like this. These execs are like that guy who makes a sweetheart deal with his brother to sell his ratty old car for more cash then it's worth and then goes back and strips out the radio, seats, and spare tire in the back before giving his bro the keys.

Reality's Fringe;4946527]Of course it wasn't -their- company in the sense that it was "owned" by the shareholders said:
Ideally the board of directors should also be wielding power and making decisions that are in the best interests of the shareholders. When I read your post I interpreted your message as "it's their company and they can do what they want, you would too". I'm not arguing that isn't what happened here - but it doesn't have to be - there were people who had the power to stand up to the execs. Just look at Warren Buffett - you think he would ever let his execs get away with this type of BS?

:lol: Well you got me there.
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[quote name='javeryh']Left-handed middle relief?[/quote]

Jim Haslett? ...to continue the sports allusions...
 
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