Atlus in trouble?

Erad30

Erad30

CAGiversary!
Is Atlus Alright? This Is Sure Worrying.
ku-xlarge.jpg


Index, the parent company for Japanese game maker Atlus, just filed for what sounds like bankruptcy. The company is entering "civil rehabilitation proceedings" in order to cut off the corporate bloodletting before it becomes fatal. Geez.

NeoGAF user Mandoric has a good definition of Japanese Civil Rehabilitation Law that should help you understand the legalese.

Related



Atlus' Parent Company Is Under Investigation for Shady Practices
Atlus is famous for role-playing games, like the Persona series. In Japan, its parent company is now in trouble with Japanese authorities for dodgy… Read…




This comes as Index is under investigation for shady business practices. Oh, there's a new Entrian Odyssey game out today, too.

-I hope somebody (maybe Nintendo?) rescues Atlus, or we might not get a lot of those cool quirky rpgs over here anymore and it might even be the end of the Shin Megami series.

 
There's no way that someone won't pick them up - it's not like THEY are losing money, I'd imagine their games turn a decent enough profit to interest other companies.  Maybe S-E or Namco Bandai?  

EDIT:  NOT Nintendo please, I don't want to see all of their games relegated to the Wii U / 3DS (even tho I own both of those systems).  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I hope Atlus isn't picked up by another game company/publisher... one of the reasons Atlus has been able to take risks is because thier parent (Index Corp) didn't really care what they did as long as it made money.

 
Vinny said:
I hope Atlus isn't picked up by another game company/publisher... one of the reasons Atlus has been able to take risks is because thier parent (Index Corp) didn't really care what they did as long as it made money.
Click to expand...
Yeah well now they're broke.

 
I bet there's a problem in the dream world or TV land or wherever those demons come from. Lets get some persona guns, shoot ourselves in the head and save Atlus!!
 
Vinny said:
I hope Atlus isn't picked up by another game company/publisher... one of the reasons Atlus has been able to take risks is because thier parent (Index Corp) didn't really care what they did as long as it made money.
Click to expand...
There are a few companies I can see picking up Atlus and treating it the same way Index did-- primarily smaller ones. If they're sold off, Marvelous AQL is at the top of my Atlus acquisition wishlist (at the bottom? Most any of the bigger guys, especially Square Enix).

 
Last edited by a moderator:
gunnm said:
Yeah well now they're broke.
Click to expand...
Index Corp is the party that's under investigation for "shady" accounting for months now... chances are, the execs were involved in larceny or embezzlement. We don't know whether or not Atlus is profitable or not, but chances are, they're doing pretty well for a niche publisher given how well their games sell.

NoelVermillion said:
Aksys Games can always pick them up the SMT series.
Click to expand...
Atlus is attractive because of the SMT games, which will probably put them out of range for smaller companies like Aksys or Xseed.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Vinny said:
Atlus is attractive because of the SMT games, which will probably put them out of range for smaller companies like Aksys or Xseed.
Click to expand...
True. But Aksys already has some special relation with Atlus. Since they developed P4:Arena for them. You know, Atlus could've gotten any other big company to do their game. Yet, they picked Aksys. ALthough, this just speculation from me. I know this doesn't actually matters. If Atlus goes bankrupted everything will be settle in a auction house just like THQ.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
NoelVermillion said:
True. But Aksys already has some special relation with Atlus. Since they developed P4:Arena for them. You know, Atlus could've gotten any other big company to do their game. Yet, they picked Aksys. ALthough, this just speculation from me. I know this doesn't actually matters. If Atlus goes bankrupted everything will be settle in a auction house just like THQ.
Click to expand...
I'm guessing they picked Aksys because it offered the most favorable terms for both companies... can you imagine if they asked Capcom to make the game? Capcom would probably like to keep most of the profits and exclusive rights everything.

And I have no idea how liquidations work in Japan... but it will probably be similar to THQ's.

 
GhostShark said:
Here comes EA, Ubisoft and Activision Blizzard to save the day!
Click to expand...
It's generally pretty hard for American or non-Japanese companies to buy Japanese companies. It's not that it doesn't happen, it's just not common. It's more likely that another Japanese company would pick them up.

I kinda hope it's either Nintendo or Sony.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
NoelVermillion said:
True. But Aksys already has some special relation with Atlus. Since they developed P4:Arena for them. You know, Atlus could've gotten any other big company to do their game. Yet, they picked Aksys. ALthough, this just speculation from me. I know this doesn't actually matters. If Atlus goes bankrupted everything will be settle in a auction house just like THQ.
Click to expand...
Aksys had nothing to do with P4 Arena. Arc System Work made it.

 
They have a small connection with Capcom. One of their designers made the Devil forms for Dante and Vergil in DMC3 forward. Dante was in Nocturne. Capcom could do it I suppose...unfortunately 

 
Been following the Neogaf thread, likely candidates are Gungho (yes them, they own Xseed and Grasshopper Manufacture) Sony, Nintendo, Namco-Bandai, or some other JPN entity.

If anyone has been following Atlus' releases in the last few years and watching behind the scenes there's been some shakeups afoot, PR manager Aram left to Sony, their president flew the coup if I remember correctly. They canned the release of Persona 2: EP over some inane reasoning (they stated it had no relation to low sales **coughBScough**) and they've been bleeding money with the US branch over crap liscensing and aquisitions since trying to find the next Demon's Souls (which never panned out for them) and to add even more problems is the issue with Index playing the money laundering game and causing issue with Atlus over that.

In a perfect world Cozy Okada & Kazuma Kaneko would have the capital to buy Atlus outright and take it private and run the show the way they used too. But since it's not, we can only hope they find a financially stable company that will ALLOW them the freedom to release the games they want to make and the fans want. Out of the companies I listed, only a few fit that list well, but not completely. But honestly I would not be surprised if Gungho of all companies doesn't try an outright buyout of Atlus they're flush with money have been doing aquisitions quite a lot recently and it would be a way to strengthen their RPG brand and IP since that is where they are raking in all of the money at the moment as it is. And before somebody scoffs and says no way, check this out.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/192416/killer__dragons_the_gungho_and_.php

"There's a new powerhouse in Japan -- one whose market cap has now passed Nintendo's. Developer GungHo Online is earning well over $3 million dollars a day from the unbelievably huge smartphone match-3 hit, Puzzle & Dragons, which has driven the company's market value to over $15 billion."
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
uncle5555 said:
Been following the Neogaf thread, likely candidates are Gungho (yes them, they own Xseed and Grasshopper Manufacture) Sony, Nintendo, Namco-Bandai, or some other JPN entity.

If anyone has been following Atlus' releases in the last few years and watching behind the scenes there's been some shakeups afoot, PR manager Aram left to Sony, their president flew the coup if I remember correctly. They canned the release of Persona 2: EP over some inane reasoning (they stated it had no relation to low sales **coughBScough**) and they've been bleeding money with the US branch over crap liscensing and aquisitions since trying to find the next Demon's Souls (which never panned out for them) and to add even more problems is the issue with Index playing the money laundering game and causing issue with Atlus over that.

In a perfect world Cozy Okada & Kazuma Kaneko would have the capital to buy Atlus outright and take it private and run the show the way they used too. But since it's not, we can only hope they find a financially stable company that will ALLOW them the freedom to release the games they want to make and the fans want. Out of the companies I listed, only a few fit that list well, but not completely. But honestly I would not be surprised if Gungho of all companies doesn't try an outright buyout of Atlus they're flush with money have been doing aquisitions quite a lot recently and it would be a way to strengthen their RPG brand and IP since that is where they are raking in all of the money at the moment as it is. And before somebody scoffs and says no way, check this out.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/192416/killer__dragons_the_gungho_and_.php
Click to expand...
Wow, I didn't realize Atlus USA was losing money... their releases seemed to indicate that their most games were selling well.

 
Vinny said:
Wow, I didn't realize Atlus USA was losing money... their releases seemed to indicate that their most games were selling well.
Click to expand...
Can uncle5555 actually back that up with a link? If the Western games Atlus published are doing horrible they won't be funding for sequels like Zeno Clash II. Atlus itself is doing fine, as their games sold tons of merchandise. The problem is parent company Index.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
YBX87 said:
you mean the company that published/made ni no kun: wrath of the white witch?
Click to expand...
And Professor Layton, and Dark Cloud/Chronicle, and a lot of other beloved games. They're one of the most successful Japanese console game makers these days and might be a good fit for an Atlus acquisition, but as so much of their stuff is family-friendly, it would also be massively weird.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
R. Kasahara said:
And Professor Layton, and Dark Cloud/Chronicle, and a lot of other beloved games. They're one of the most successful Japanese console game makers these days and might be a good fit for an Atlus acquisition, but as so much of their stuff is family-friendly, it would also be massively weird.
Click to expand...
Level 5 been going through some tough times, after Layton vs Ace Attorney and Time Travelers failed in Japan.

 
62t said:
Actually Xseed is own by Marvelous AQL
Click to expand...
Heh, must of confused it since they are publishing Killer is Dead from Grasshopper and Gungho. I need more sleep, I guess. :lol:

62t said:
Can uncle5555 actually back that up with a link? If the Western games Atlus published are doing horrible they won't be funding for sequels like Zeno Clash II. Atlus itself is doing fine, as their games sold tons of merchandise. The problem is parent company Index.
Click to expand...
Do I seriously need to put cold hard numbers down for the sales of Persona 4 Arena, Game of Thrones and the Cursed Crusade or can you say those did awesomely. I can go look for numbers (but if I find and post them, it'll be that site isn't reliable according to most people, vgchartz, so unless you know someplace that has hard accurate US numbers, I'm going stick with watching retail sales, seeing how fast they were discounted, and the fact no one bought the stupid things as my main sources of info)

For the sake of argument since you're taking me to task...fine here sales of the cursed crusade. 120K worldwide. (and no bitching about the source unless you have a better one) 130k counting xbox sales as well.

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/48394/the-cursed-crusade/

http://www.vgchartz.com/game/48395/the-cursed-crusade/

Game of thrones didnt do much better at around 300k for all platforms worldwide.

http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?name=game+of+thrones

And their handheld titles make them money, but still being niche, aren't pulling in the kind of numbers they want from them and aren't even coming close to the Demon's Souls numbers that they had.

Even persona 4 arena did less than 500k worldwide, if you believe those numbers (you can check the media create stats for Japan if you'd like, that's at least one thing Vgchartz gets right, mostly)

That Demon's souls money ain't gonna last forever, and with stuff like Xenoclash II coming up, that doesn't help the bottom line, even though it's much less of a financial risk.

Rock of Ages, Trine 2, and other digital titles weren't massive sellers for them.

Dragon's Crown and SMT IV will do well for them, but the licensed stuff is hit or miss for them, even Soul Hackers sold to the SMT audience, but had very little reach outside of that I'd argue, plus it's over 10 years old too.

Frankly, I'm just pointing out what I've seen and have seen sales wise for the last few years, they've been bullish on some console releases they shouldn't have and that cost them money. XC II is digital only release much less of a financial risk (if you read anything Vic Ireland writes, he says as much) And if you look at some of their DS and 3DS releases like Radiant Historia for instance, they went back to print since they under produced the game to cover production cost and make some profit, they didn't see it being as popular as it was. And as they will do with any game they make, but you can't tell me they didn't take a hit on GoT and TCC (they've said as much, their was an interview with Siliconera or someone, saying they fucked up, period with those games trying to find the next Demon's Souls and that failed miserably)

Hey argue what you want, pretend I'm talking nonsense, fine, I know what I read and what I see posted online from various sites and Neogaf (those people are nutty when it comes to fact checking), and if you want to believe Atlus USA, is in perfect health and doing fine, believe that, I'm not going to persuade or disuade you either way.

People wouldn't be jumping ship so easily after being long time dedicated employees if there wasn't something going on behind the scenes we are not privvy too.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
So what did you proved?  None of those games are big budget release and don't need to sell a million copy to do well.  If you follow Neogaf you know that 100k is enough for a niche title to be profitable.  It is meaningless unless you know how many copy they expected to sell.  Show me the link to siliconera where they said they failed miserably.  Link me to a Neogaf topic where Atlus USA is in trouble.

 
Persona 5 on Wii U? YES PLS (also maybe a Persona collection or something):

Mon, Jul 22, 2013 | 10:01 BST

Nintendo gearing up for Atlus acquisition – rumour
Nintendo has been painted as a likely bidder for studio and developer Atlus in a new report. It has been suggested that both companies have been working together closely in recent months ahead of a deal.

The rumour follows reports that troubled Atlus parent company Index is to sell off its subsidiaries at auction, ahead of its supposed stock market de-listing on July 28.

International Digital Times suggests that the close relationship between Atlus and Nintendo – which has brought games like Shin Megami Tensei 4 to the 3DS format – is a precursor to a purchase offer.

The report states, “The single most likely bidder for Atlus in the Atlus bankruptcy case is Nintendo. As a matter of fact, I’d like to suggest that a Nintendo-led acquisition of Atlus may actually have been in the works for some time.

“That’s because Nintendo has been working unusually closely with Atlus lately, treating them practically like an in-house studio. That may be because Atlus is about to become one.”

We’re not sure of the true extent of the relationship between Nintendo and Atlus, but it’s an interesting prospect. What do you think?

Thanks Nintendo Life.

 
I mean really the only titles which have arguably been a success for Atlus lately have been portable titles (PSP, Vita, DS, 3DS). If Nintendo scooped them up they'd have an absolute powerhouse for 3ds and the foundation of an interesting future for Wii U. Considering I have no interest in PS4 or X1 and already own a Wii U (as well as 3ds), I wouldn't have any problem with Nintendo snatching up Atlus.
 
Erad30 said:
Persona 5 on Wii U? YES PLS (also maybe a Persona collection or something):

Mon, Jul 22, 2013 | 10:01 BST

Nintendo gearing up for Atlus acquisition – rumour
Nintendo has been painted as a likely bidder for studio and developer Atlus in a new report. It has been suggested that both companies have been working together closely in recent months ahead of a deal.

The rumour follows reports that troubled Atlus parent company Index is to sell off its subsidiaries at auction, ahead of its supposed stock market de-listing on July 28.

International Digital Times suggests that the close relationship between Atlus and Nintendo – which has brought games like Shin Megami Tensei 4 to the 3DS format – is a precursor to a purchase offer.

The report states, “The single most likely bidder for Atlus in the Atlus bankruptcy case is Nintendo. As a matter of fact, I’d like to suggest that a Nintendo-led acquisition of Atlus may actually have been in the works for some time.

“That’s because Nintendo has been working unusually closely with Atlus lately, treating them practically like an in-house studio. That may be because Atlus is about to become one.”

We’re not sure of the true extent of the relationship between Nintendo and Atlus, but it’s an interesting prospect. What do you think?

Thanks Nintendo Life.
Click to expand...
It is not a rumor. It's speculation.

 
Would be a good pick up for Nintendo.  Wouldn't do much for their sales in the US really, as Atlus games are super niche here.  Would get some love from JRPG fans of course, but not enough to really save the Wii U or anything.  Probably wouldn't help 3DS sales much with SMT etc. already being out on it those fans probably already took the plunge.

But would help the Wii U in Japan for sure if some big games there like Persona sequels were exclusive to it.

And the reality is that Nintendo just has to find ways to make a profit with their smaller market.  They caught lightning in a bottle with the Wii getting casual/non-gamers to buy.  But that ship has sailed and their back to GameCube status basically of needing to find a way to make a profit with that type of market size as they just can't compete with Sony or MS in the western world.  They just don't have the teams skilled in making shooters, WRPGs and other things that move consoles in the west.  

The kill the kid/family market, especially with their portables, and have a decent market of long time fans who'll keep buying their consoles (even if as 2nd or 3rd machines) to play their games.  About the only way they can try to broaden their market some is going after some big JRPG exclusives that will get fans in the west to buy in, but more importantly help drive up sales in Japan.

 
hell no, i do not want atlus to be acquire by nintendo, and change all their working/ developing titles as nintendo exclusives. I want sony  topurchase it, so i can play finally Shin Megami Tensei: series on playstation 3, or playstation 4 as well as others. Nintendo can stick to rehasing, and republishing their mario titles, with legend of zelda.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If Nintendo buys Atlus, they will probably be treated like Monolith. Which means like shit. Monolith has made a couple good games since Nintendo acquired them, but mostly they have been stuck on helping other studios with their games, most recently helping to finish Project X Zone, Animal Crossing New Leaf, and Pikmin 3. If Nintendo would just leave Monolith alone, they could do so much more, and I would be afraid they would treat Atlus the same way.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Seems like Atlus has put a lot of their focus on 3DS lately, so this wouldn't be entirely strange. Still, Persona 5 a Wii U exclusive? That... would be a thing.

 
With all of this talk I bought a $50 PSN card to snatch up the 4 portable Persona games on PSN even though I don't own a Vita yet and I have the 3 disks on PSP but I wanted these before Nintendo forces a take down.

 
I agree with those saying it would be good for Nintendo.  Lets face it, they have a massive pile of cash and they just sitting on it rather than using it to grow their business.  Their IP's are a bit stale and missing many entire genre's.  If they were smart they would have picked up Volition when THQ auctioned it's studios because the buyer only paid about $23 million dollars for it and it's got Saint's Row 4 coming out really soon that will generate hundreds of millions of revenue.  Plus they have no open world games...

Then again maybe Nintendo thought that it would tarnish their kid friendly image though to be fair, THQ put out a billion licensed kids games along with their game with a giant purple dildo baseball bat.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
oh boy...

while we are getting Project Diva F and I like Sonic racing transformed... I am not sure if I want to see Atlus in their fold with their general handling of Sonic franchise + localization issues with VC and Yakuza 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
wasabi5858 said:
oh boy...

while we are getting Project Diva F and I like Sonic racing transformed... I am not sure if I want to see Atlus in their fold with their general handling of Sonic franchise + localization issues with VC and Yakuza
Click to expand...
I think it would be hilarious if Sega bought Atlus.

Sega: Hey Atlus, we want you to make a new SMT game... but make all the Personas into Sonic characters.
Atlus: No.
Sega: Ok, ok... then make a game like Catherine but with these two as the stars.
Atlus: ...
Sega: Make sure there are lots of awkward kissing scenes. We want the player to be as uncomfortable as possible.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
It's only a rumor... if there are 20 companies (which seems plausible) than I doubt Atlus will be sold so quickly. I'm sure there's going to be multiple offers.
 
 
Vinny said:
It's only a rumor... if there are 20 companies (which seems plausible) than I doubt Atlus will be sold so quickly. I'm sure there's going to be multiple offers.
Click to expand...
is atlus going to be sold off in an auction similar to thq? like each ip sold to different companies.
 
YBX87 said:
  is atlus going to be sold off in an auction similar to thq? like each ip sold to different companies.
Click to expand...
From what I can tell, even though Index Crop is bankrupt, they're only going through restructuring. I believe this means most (possibly all) of their assets are being sold off until they're at a point where their liabilities are settled. There's still going to be a "bidding" process (Sega offers $200, Nintendo offers $205m) but I think Atlus has a say in this (i.e., though Nintendo made a better offer, they go with Sega since that means they can make multiplatform games).

THQ was flat out dead, meaning their liabilities far exceeded their assets). THQ had to be liquidated and had to have their assets auctioned off for whatever they could get.

I'm not a expert on Japanese law/business so I could be wrong.
 
YBX87 said:
damn, was hoping sony might acquire it. Atleast it is not nintendo.
Click to expand...
March 2, 2010 - Media Molecule

August 2, 2011 - Sucker Punch

July 2, 2012 - Gaikai

August 2013 - Atlus???

I wouldn't count Sony out since they have been buying a gaming related company for the Playstation business at least once a year since 2010, so far nothing in 2013 yet. Sony could really use Atlus for developing PS Vita titles.

 
KillerRamen said:
I hope it's either Nintendo or Sony who ends up getting them. I think they would benefit from being a 2nd party studio.
Click to expand...
How? They are the most effective when they are able to pick their platform. Unlike say Monolith Soft they include many teams.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yeah, when it comes down to it, I'm not sure I'd want to see either of those two companies to wind up with Atlus.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
bread's done
Back
Top