Barry Bonds* breaks the all time home run record*

[quote name='galvatron2k1']

All I'm saying is McGwire was not taking heat like Barry is... Big deal, he didn't get in first ballot. Shocker. No secret that Barry won't either. [/quote]

Bonds will get in the first year he can, his career numbers and achievements stomp McGwires.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']I got his autograph, I'm rich!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/quote]

Autograph, hell. The guy'd probably agree to come mow your lawn if you gave him a lift.

j/k, Mark. You were money in the postseason and we miss you.
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']Bonds will get in the first year he can, his career numbers and achievements stomp McGwires.[/quote]

Agreed, but sadly, his "tainted by public-opinion" numbers will keep the voters from putting him in, maybe longer than just the first ballot. If you don't think so, ask yourself why Pete Rose (years after he cheated) still is not in the HOF.

And McGwire's numbers are ample enough to be a first ballot Hall of Famer, no question.
 
[quote name='galvatron2k1']Agreed, but sadly, his "tainted by public-opinion" numbers will keep the voters from putting him in, maybe longer than just the first ballot. If you don't think so, ask yourself why Pete Rose (years after he cheated) still is not in the HOF.
[/quote]

He can't get into the HOF because he was banned. The only way for him to get in is with the commish pardoning him and I really doubt that will ever happen
 
[quote name='galvatron2k1']Agreed, but sadly, his "tainted by public-opinion" numbers will keep the voters from putting him in, maybe longer than just the first ballot. If you don't think so, ask yourself why Pete Rose (years after he cheated) still is not in the HOF.[/QUOTE]

I wouldn't trust Pete Rose to tell me the time if he was looking at Big Ben. Voters = writers. Writers hate Rose, and only merely dislike Bonds. Bonds is statistically the best hitter of all time, combined with Gold Gloves, and 7 MVPs. It's not really a contest. And, what fart said.

Sad thing is, if Bonds really did do all of this without steroids (aside from what he's admitted), we should all bow down and kiss his ass for being a player we will probably never see again.
 
[quote name='fart_bubble']He can't get into the HOF because he was banned. The only way for him to get in is with the commish pardoning him and I really doubt that will ever happen[/quote]

He'll (Pete) get in when he dies. The great Bud Selig said he would put him in too if he would admit that he bet on baseball. So, he half-assed it and Bud screwed him again. Classic. But no, seriously. I would imagine if all this Balco stuff holds up, he may do something similar to Barry (as evidenced by his lack of enthusiam when he hit 755).
 
Did anyone catch the bit on the pitcher who gave up the record-breaker? Apparently his dad pitched to Aaron, and avoided giving up #756. The son, not so much. :lol:
 
[quote name='hohez']I don't see why he should be a nice guy when everyone in the world treats him like some kind of cheating antichrist. I guess no one else has ever been a dick at any point in their lives.
This is the steroid era, and until he actually fails a major league drug test then he shouldn't be condemned. I guess the only guys who have taken steroids are guys who put on mass and hit home runs? Does anyone really think they weren't cheating throughout baseball history? Of course they were.
People just make a big deal about shit now because this whole god damn generation loves nothing more than to tear people down.
Congrats Barry! I don't give a shit how you did it, but you did it and it's one of the most impressive sports accomplishments i have ever seen.[/QUOTE]

You do realize the steroid era was the 90's?

[quote name='galvatron2k1']He'll (Pete) get in when he dies. The great Bud Selig said he would put him in too if he would admit that he bet on baseball. So, he half-assed it and Bud screwed him again. Classic. But no, seriously. I would imagine if all this Balco stuff holds up, he may do something similar to Barry (as evidenced by his lack of enthusiam when he hit 755).[/QUOTE]

I thought Pete admit he bet on games in his book that came out in 05 or so.


[quote name='CaseyRyback']
And jmcc, Bonds had three MVP's before he even started using the juice and was one of the best players already of this era.[/QUOTE]

He was a great five tool player. However after you peak (35 or so) you get worse as a player. I'm neutral on whether he took roids or not.

[quote name='lokizz'] the fact is and yeah people dont want to admit this but alot of this is racially motivated. [/QUOTE]

GTFO the last guy to break the single season record was white, and they questioned steroid use when he did it. But the difference between McGuire, and Bonds is that. McGuire didn't get called into a grand jury during his career, and on the way to break a record.

[quote name='galvatron2k1']

I think he might be the ONLY person in any sport that has juiced that might face actual jail time... And why? Because he didn't admit it???
[/QUOTE]

Its called perjury, he said he didn't but his trainer was giving it to him allegedly.

[quote name='Ikohn4ever']yea we don't want anyone not white to hold a record, oh wait Hank Aaron is black. [/QUOTE]

I agree here are some African American/Latino ball players that hold some records, or are celebrated players.


Jackie Robinson
Larry Doby
Roy Campanella
Willie Mays
Willie McCovey
Ernie Banks
Roberto Clemente
Hank Aaron
Juan Marichal
Frank Robinson
Eddie Murray
Reggie Jackson
Dave Winfield
Willie Stargell
Orlando Cepeda
Barry Bonds
Joe Morgan
Josh Gibson
Satchel Paige

[quote name='galvatron2k1']That's not what I am saying. We are talking about major league players period. There are exceptions and why? Because Barry was chasing a record? I acknowlege there are other factors to it, but if you think race isn't an issue with this, then I don't know what to tell you. The only thing I try to compare this too is McGwire because he too was chasing a record. It's funny how ESPN briefly brings his name up and then that's the last you hear of it. He doesn't play anymore, but he did break a hallowed record.

[/QUOTE]

Race has nothing to do with it. People that just so happen to say hey "Bonds is black, and people are hating on him. Must be because he's black. Those assholes" Is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard. (see above list) Its not because the man black but because he possibly took roids color of skin has nothing to do with it. But a Balco grand jury a few years back has everything to do with it. The Cream, and the Clear have everything to do with it. Not the color of his fucking skin.
 
[quote name='jmcc']Why is it impressive at all? Any human being on Earth, regardless of age or gender, could easily have done it with access to the same pharmaceuticals Bonds used. You could be the record holder if you had the money to buy the drugs.[/quote]
cmon lets not go that far..
it certainly helped but he was a great player even before he started taking steroids. and im sure there are so many other ppl that are juiced, u dont see them hitting 756hrs
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']No, the picking and choosing is bullshit. Let's celebrate a player who has already testified he used steriods (albeit 'unintentionally'), yet let's crucify someone who may or may not have used steroids but has no idea how to testify in front of congress.

The fact of the matter is the only people we KNOW have used steriods are Barry, Rafael, Canseco and anyone else who has actually tested positive.[/quote]


yeah im with you on that everyone who used or uses them should be outed not just a few. yeah we dont know for a full on fact who did what but we all know on the inside its common practice for alot of athletes. right or wrong its going on and has been for a while and probably will never end. steroids are just a part of sports and even if you get rid of one kind someone will figure out a way around it and come up with something else.

all in all why the fuck do people care though i could see why athletes who dont use steroids would care but for the fans youre getting your moneys worth theyre putting up numbers and if the athlete chooses to shorten his lifespan then shouldnt it be up to them?
 
[quote name='galvatron2k1']Agreed, but sadly, his "tainted by public-opinion" numbers will keep the voters from putting him in, maybe longer than just the first ballot. If you don't think so, ask yourself why Pete Rose (years after he cheated) still is not in the HOF.

And McGwire's numbers are ample enough to be a first ballot Hall of Famer, no question.[/quote]

Here's the thing, though....Barry didn't cheat! Heh, everyone keeps forgeting that. It has been proven that Pete Rose bet on baseball. Barry has never admitted or been found guilty of anything. Even under oath and knowing that his testimony would never be revealed to the public (which of course it was), Barry Bonds didn't admit anything. He said he never knowingly took any substance containing steroids. I know in America now we just convict everyone based on circumstanial evidence, but it has become ridiculous. Until he is found guilty of something, he is a first ballot hall of famer. Nancy Grace be damned!
 
[quote name='dragonreborn23']Here's the thing, though....Barry didn't cheat! Heh, everyone keeps forgeting that. It has been proven that Pete Rose bet on baseball. Barry has never admitted or been found guilty of anything. Even under oath and knowing that his testimony would never be revealed to the public (which of course it was), Barry Bonds didn't admit anything. He said he never knowingly took any substance containing steroids. I know in America now we just convict everyone based on circumstanial evidence, but it has become ridiculous. Until he is found guilty of something, he is a first ballot hall of famer. Nancy Grace be damned![/QUOTE]

Explain McGwire.
 
[quote name='dragonreborn23']Here's the thing, though....Barry didn't cheat! Heh, everyone keeps forgeting that. It has been proven that Pete Rose bet on baseball. Barry has never admitted or been found guilty of anything. Even under oath and knowing that his testimony would never be revealed to the public (which of course it was), Barry Bonds didn't admit anything. He said he never knowingly took any substance containing steroids. I know in America now we just convict everyone based on circumstanial evidence, but it has become ridiculous. Until he is found guilty of something, he is a first ballot hall of famer. Nancy Grace be damned![/QUOTE]


Pete Rose betting on Baseball has nothing to do with nothing.

You said Bonds didn't admit anything but then you go on to say that "He said he never knowingly took any substance containing steroids."

With that said you do realize his trainer is facing jail time for giving bonds roids. Again I'm neutral on the roids deal. For all we know Nolan Ryan was juicing so he could throw 100mph, Rickey Henderson was juicing so he could steal all those bases.

We don't know who juiced or not so I feel we can't judge just one person. But because of the roids scandal all players from the 1980's through 2003 are questionable. Some players you can look at performance, and tell somewhat if they juiced.

Griffey Jr is a good example. Been roughly the same size his whole life has only put on about 40lbs or so since he was a rookie. Has had bad years, and good years. But his stat show that he proly didn't juice. He has from 20-58 home runs every year. That alone show that he was just going through a normal ball player cycle. Some good years, some bad years, then as he gets older after the peak (35) he gets worse. He's only do good this year because he moves over to RF which is less running for him for him. Which keeps his legs healthy. As all ball fans know thats where your power comes from when swinging a bat.
 
[quote name='dallow']Wait, are there people that think the steroids 'didn't' help him hit more HRs?[/quote]

Yes, and they would be Giants fans.
 
[quote name='Liquid 2']I hear the guy who caught the ball got the shit beaten out of him before security saved his ass.[/QUOTE]

Wouldn't doubt it. That could be a million dollar ball.
 
[quote name='gunm']I understand what you're saying, but I don't entirely agree. If comparing eras was as irrelevant as you suggest, then there's no reason to recognize any kind of record, baseball or otherwise, ever.[/QUOTE]

That's exactly the point, though. A record is just a number, there's no reason to assign any significance to it in of itself. Rather, records gain meaning through our reflections based upon what we associate with them: images of youth, trimuph, the "good old days," whatever. So Barry Bonds hit more home runs than Hank Aaron, but what does that really mean? Barry Bonds is Barry Bonds and Hank Aaron is Hank Aaron.

I'll try to summarize; the reason people railed against Maris in 1961, against Aaron in 1974, and against Bonds now, seems to stem from the fact that they feel that each cheapened the record somehow. But those men couldn't have cheapened anything; records exist as a product of the personality of the time in which they were set and the men who did the setting. What people think of said records becomes a product thereof. Therefore, records are not timeless, not immutable, and certainly not static; they are, at best, ephemeral. They, like the game, change over time, and shouldn't be recognized as having some sort of eternal, intangible grace of their own.
 
I dunno, IMO, it's not my place to judge what people value and why, even it's something as "moronic" as a baseball record.
 
[quote name='galvatron2k1']And the bullshit continues in baseball. Who said there wasn't a double standard???

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-selig-giambi&prov=ap&type=lgns

And before somebody says, he admitted it and look at what he's done with the community. It doesn't matter. Wrong is wrong![/QUOTE]

If we expect to get anything out of this steroid witch-hunt, we can't expect to throw the book at people who come forward and tell what they know. If we do that, we'll never find out anything. What he did, he did before there was a policy on it for punishment.
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']If we expect to get anything out of this steroid witch-hunt, we can't expect to throw the book at people who come forward and tell what they know. If we do that, we'll never find out anything. What he did, he did before there was a policy on it for punishment.[/quote]

It still doesn't make it right. So, is the standard - confess and all will be forgiven? I admire him for coming forward at least but to absolve him from any punishment is ludicrous IMO. And even if he did it before a policy on punishment, the substance was still illegal in the game when he did it.
 
[quote name='galvatron2k1']It still doesn't make it right. So, is the standard - confess and all will be forgiven? I admire him for coming forward at least but to absolve him from any punishment is ludicrous IMO. And even if he did it before a policy on punishment, the substance was still illegal in the game when he did it.[/QUOTE]

He admitted to taking during his MVP season of 2000, unless I'm grossly mistaken.

In 2000, steroids were not banned. They did not become so until 2002.

So you're going to tell a guy, 'Hey, you admitted to taking steroids when they weren't banned. Even when they became banned, there was no disciplinary action until last year. And you (after some protracted discussion) came forward and met with our guy.

....

Here's a 50 game ban.'

Fair?
 
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/12/02/MNG80A523H1.DTL[quote name='CocheseUGA']He admitted to taking during his MVP season of 2000, unless I'm grossly mistaken.

In 2000, steroids were not banned. They did not become so until 2002.

So you're going to tell a guy, 'Hey, you admitted to taking steroids when they weren't banned. Even when they became banned, there was no disciplinary action until last year. And you (after some protracted discussion) came forward and met with our guy.

....

Here's a 50 game ban.'

Fair?[/quote]

Per the San Francisco Chronicle:

"New York Yankees star Jason Giambi told a federal grand jury that he had injected himself with human growth hormone during the 2003 baseball season and had started using steroids at least two years earlier, The Chronicle has learned."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/12/02/MNG80A523H1.DTL
 
In 2003, they did survey testing - testing with no consequences. They didn't start really testing until June of 2004, and that only carried counseling. They didn't start punishing for it until 2005.

So, if he would have tested positive in 2003, he wouldn't have even had his name released, much less be punished.

If you can't retroactively apply lesser sentences for convicted felons, how can you retroactively apply harsher punishments in baseball?
 
[quote name='CocheseUGA']In 2003, they did survey testing - testing with no consequences. They didn't start really testing until June of 2004, and that only carried counseling. They didn't start punishing for it until 2005.

So, if he would have tested positive in 2003, he wouldn't have even had his name released, much less be punished.

If you can't retroactively apply lesser sentences for convicted felons, how can you retroactively apply harsher punishments in baseball?[/quote]
Ok, touche. However, Bonds allegedly took the "cream" and the "clear" in the same time frame as Giambi was taking HGH (2003).

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/12/03/MNGGFA0UDU65.DTL

Although, the closest Bonds has come to admitting it is saying he didn't know it was steroids, I still fail to see the double standard here. I know he was chasing a record, I get that, so it puts him in the limelight. Also, so does his alleged perjury in the Balco case.

Bottom line, if Bonds came out and told Mitchell and Selig the same thing as Giambi, I find it hard to believe they would just "let it go." I know for a fact the media wouldn't. IMO, what the commissioner did when he hit 755 and absent when he hit 756 spoke volumes to me on how he and the baseball administration views Bonds.
 
I think everyone baseball player should take steroids so its more interesting :D. Anyways, bonds still broke the record, and I hate how people are ruining what has so far been the biggest piece of sports history I've seen live.
 
It's pretty irrelevant to argue about the ramifications of steroids. Tons of players took them, and the truth will probably never come out. It's probably better just to group the era as the steroids era and consider the hr record to be tainted.

Bonds has the records, but the single season hr king is Roger Maris, and the alltime king is Hank Aaron.

I didn't care much when it was broken, I was just a little sad.
 
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