sblymnlcrymnl
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[quote name='alonzomourning23']I'm not arguing with russell, but should greatest ever be based on having great statistics?[/QUOTE]Not completely, but you have to have something quantifiable.
Best basketball player in NBA history?
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[quote name='cdeener']How can everybody forget about the man that averaged a triple double everytime he stepped on a NBA court for five straight seasons (before there was even an official stat for it) hands down if we are looking at individual all around stats when it comes to the NBA the best player ever would be:
OSCAR ROBERTSON
http://www.nba.com/history/players/robertson_summary.html
Championships and Changing how the NBA Game is played:
BILL RUSSELL
http://www.nba.com/history/players/russell_summary.html
Sorry, my friends but Jordan has nothing on either one of them and Oscar Robertson could basically play any position on the court. Russell just was one of classy individuals to ever grace the court the man won 11 championships in his NBA career and even became coach of the Celtics for a short time so there you go.[/QUOTE]
I already gave Big O plenty of props even acknowledging that he was better than Cousy. But with that said I still think Jordan was a better all around player and did more for his team. You got to remember that Oscar Reobertson didn't win his championship until Kareem entered the league. By that point it wasn't his team anymore. He was more like Scotty to Kareem".
Russell I think it's the only fair comparision just because of how many championships he won and the way he played Wilt. The downside to Russell's greatness was that he played with 4 or 5 hall of famers. That certainly contributed to winning those 9 Championships.
OSCAR ROBERTSON
http://www.nba.com/history/players/robertson_summary.html
Championships and Changing how the NBA Game is played:
BILL RUSSELL
http://www.nba.com/history/players/russell_summary.html
Sorry, my friends but Jordan has nothing on either one of them and Oscar Robertson could basically play any position on the court. Russell just was one of classy individuals to ever grace the court the man won 11 championships in his NBA career and even became coach of the Celtics for a short time so there you go.[/QUOTE]
I already gave Big O plenty of props even acknowledging that he was better than Cousy. But with that said I still think Jordan was a better all around player and did more for his team. You got to remember that Oscar Reobertson didn't win his championship until Kareem entered the league. By that point it wasn't his team anymore. He was more like Scotty to Kareem".
Russell I think it's the only fair comparision just because of how many championships he won and the way he played Wilt. The downside to Russell's greatness was that he played with 4 or 5 hall of famers. That certainly contributed to winning those 9 Championships.
brainstorm
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For me its simple, it's definetely a toss up between Isiah Rider and Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Abdur-Rauf
oh and how ironic, Rider was arrested on kidnapping charges today, http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2308253
No, seriously I put down Robertson, because he's the only guy to average a triple double for an entire season which is absolutely sick. But in reality it's probably Bill Russell or MJ.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmoud_Abdur-Rauf
oh and how ironic, Rider was arrested on kidnapping charges today, http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2308253
No, seriously I put down Robertson, because he's the only guy to average a triple double for an entire season which is absolutely sick. But in reality it's probably Bill Russell or MJ.
Zenithian Legend
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[quote name='onetrackmind']Since Isiah's not on the list i had to go with Bill Russel... that guy was 
ing amazing[/QUOTE]
Growing up in suburban Detroit, Isiah was definitely my favorite player.
ing amazing[/QUOTE]Growing up in suburban Detroit, Isiah was definitely my favorite player.
BigSpoonyBard
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[quote name='2fast_2fuhrer']DT778, can I hear why you think Magic is the greatest of all time (no offense meant, just curious)?[/QUOTE]
I'll take the liberty of starting DT's answer for him.
From what I posted in the other thread:
As a 20 year old rookie in the NBA Finals, Magic started game six at center in place of the injured Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and went on to record 42 pts, 15 rebounds, 7 assist and 3 steals, becoming the first rookie to win NBA Finals MVP. You want clutch? See the hook shot against the Celtics to win game 4 of the NBA Finals. You want defense? League leader in steals in 81 and 82 (record for most consecutive seasons leading the league in steals), and is 9th on the all time steals list. Toss in 7 rebounds, 11 assists and 19 points a game, along with 5 championships, and you've got the greatest player of all time.
Now, with all this talk about Jordan globalizing the game, I think we need to consider where Jordan got his jumping off point. That's right, Magic. Before Magic came into the league, TV ratings for the NBA were floundering. He made basketball worth watching. There would be no NBA as we knew it for Jordan to globalize had Magic not made the game popular in the 80s. His rivalry with Bird is the stuff of legend. The marketing of the NBa became prevalent because of Magic, plain and simple. Jordan picked up where Magic left off, which happened to coincide with the "shrinking of the globe" that occured with the technology boom of the 90's.
I'll take the liberty of starting DT's answer for him.
From what I posted in the other thread:
As a 20 year old rookie in the NBA Finals, Magic started game six at center in place of the injured Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and went on to record 42 pts, 15 rebounds, 7 assist and 3 steals, becoming the first rookie to win NBA Finals MVP. You want clutch? See the hook shot against the Celtics to win game 4 of the NBA Finals. You want defense? League leader in steals in 81 and 82 (record for most consecutive seasons leading the league in steals), and is 9th on the all time steals list. Toss in 7 rebounds, 11 assists and 19 points a game, along with 5 championships, and you've got the greatest player of all time.
Now, with all this talk about Jordan globalizing the game, I think we need to consider where Jordan got his jumping off point. That's right, Magic. Before Magic came into the league, TV ratings for the NBA were floundering. He made basketball worth watching. There would be no NBA as we knew it for Jordan to globalize had Magic not made the game popular in the 80s. His rivalry with Bird is the stuff of legend. The marketing of the NBa became prevalent because of Magic, plain and simple. Jordan picked up where Magic left off, which happened to coincide with the "shrinking of the globe" that occured with the technology boom of the 90's.
alonzomourning23
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Not really arguing, but steals are often gained by gambling on defense. Jason williams, when he was at his worst defensively, average almost 2 steals a game. Sure defense plays a large part, but they are a somewhat easy defensive stats for poor defensive players to rack up. As for clutch, jordan didn't cling to just a few great moments, but consistently was deadly when it counted.
Ikohn4ever
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wilt because they had to change the game for him, also Iverson is a better player than Kobe, so if anything he should be on the list
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Isiah Thomas.
thamaster24
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Boston Celtics, Los Angeles Lakers, New York Knicks. Would someone name some other teams that won 2 or 3 championships in or row or even in a decade, during the time Russell played. Now that sounds good but who else was there? No one, these three were the only teams that had a chance unlike the Bulls who had in my opinion tougher opponents. You would all pick MJ if you go back watch him and realize he could do anything he wanted to at any time. On offense or defense.
Reggie Miller deserves some credit he was one of the best clutch shooters in the postseason, in the Eastern Conference Playoffs he hit something like 8 pts in less than 10 seconds. The only two clutch shooters better than him are Robert Horry and MJ
Reggie Miller deserves some credit he was one of the best clutch shooters in the postseason, in the Eastern Conference Playoffs he hit something like 8 pts in less than 10 seconds. The only two clutch shooters better than him are Robert Horry and MJ
[quote name='BigSpoonyBard']I'll take the liberty of starting DT's answer for him.
From what I posted in the other thread:
As a 20 year old rookie in the NBA Finals, Magic started game six at center in place of the injured Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and went on to record 42 pts, 15 rebounds, 7 assist and 3 steals, becoming the first rookie to win NBA Finals MVP. You want clutch? See the hook shot against the Celtics to win game 4 of the NBA Finals. You want defense? League leader in steals in 81 and 82 (record for most consecutive seasons leading the league in steals), and is 9th on the all time steals list. Toss in 7 rebounds, 11 assists and 19 points a game, along with 5 championships, and you've got the greatest player of all time.
Now, with all this talk about Jordan globalizing the game, I think we need to consider where Jordan got his jumping off point. That's right, Magic. Before Magic came into the league, TV ratings for the NBA were floundering. He made basketball worth watching. There would be no NBA as we knew it for Jordan to globalize had Magic not made the game popular in the 80s. His rivalry with Bird is the stuff of legend. The marketing of the NBa became prevalent because of Magic, plain and simple. Jordan picked up where Magic left off, which happened to coincide with the "shrinking of the globe" that occured with the technology boom of the 90's.[/QUOTE]
Magic wouldn't have been half as great without Bird. The 80's were all about the Lakers and Celtics.
Jordan didn't have any true rivals in the 90's. No team in the league could stop the Bulls and besides the Jazz he never faced the same team twice in the Finals.
From what I posted in the other thread:
As a 20 year old rookie in the NBA Finals, Magic started game six at center in place of the injured Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and went on to record 42 pts, 15 rebounds, 7 assist and 3 steals, becoming the first rookie to win NBA Finals MVP. You want clutch? See the hook shot against the Celtics to win game 4 of the NBA Finals. You want defense? League leader in steals in 81 and 82 (record for most consecutive seasons leading the league in steals), and is 9th on the all time steals list. Toss in 7 rebounds, 11 assists and 19 points a game, along with 5 championships, and you've got the greatest player of all time.
Now, with all this talk about Jordan globalizing the game, I think we need to consider where Jordan got his jumping off point. That's right, Magic. Before Magic came into the league, TV ratings for the NBA were floundering. He made basketball worth watching. There would be no NBA as we knew it for Jordan to globalize had Magic not made the game popular in the 80s. His rivalry with Bird is the stuff of legend. The marketing of the NBa became prevalent because of Magic, plain and simple. Jordan picked up where Magic left off, which happened to coincide with the "shrinking of the globe" that occured with the technology boom of the 90's.[/QUOTE]
Magic wouldn't have been half as great without Bird. The 80's were all about the Lakers and Celtics.
Jordan didn't have any true rivals in the 90's. No team in the league could stop the Bulls and besides the Jazz he never faced the same team twice in the Finals.
BigSpoonyBard
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[quote name='kill3r7']Magic wouldn't have been half as great without Bird. The 80's were all about the Lakers and Celtics.
Jordan didn't have any true rivals in the 90's. No team in the league could stop the Bulls and besides the Jazz he never faced the same team twice in the Finals.[/QUOTE]
And I think that needs to be taken into consideration as well. Jordan had no one with similar abilities to challenge him. Magic and Bird were near mirror images of each other in terms of ability. The difference was that Magic played the point, so he passed more, and Bird, at forward, got to shoot more. The closest to Jordan in terms of skills at the time was Clyde Drexler. The 90s were really the domain of the centers with Ewing, Olajuwan, Robinson and Shaq going head to head all the time. In terms of SGs and SFs, there wasn't really another "great" player to push Jordan. If you look at the NBA now, and we'll use Kobe as an example since he's the talk of the week, you've got T-Mac, Lebron, D-Wade all who compete on a very high plane with each other. And look at the glut of extremely talented power forwards in the league right now.
Jordan didn't have any true rivals in the 90's. No team in the league could stop the Bulls and besides the Jazz he never faced the same team twice in the Finals.[/QUOTE]
And I think that needs to be taken into consideration as well. Jordan had no one with similar abilities to challenge him. Magic and Bird were near mirror images of each other in terms of ability. The difference was that Magic played the point, so he passed more, and Bird, at forward, got to shoot more. The closest to Jordan in terms of skills at the time was Clyde Drexler. The 90s were really the domain of the centers with Ewing, Olajuwan, Robinson and Shaq going head to head all the time. In terms of SGs and SFs, there wasn't really another "great" player to push Jordan. If you look at the NBA now, and we'll use Kobe as an example since he's the talk of the week, you've got T-Mac, Lebron, D-Wade all who compete on a very high plane with each other. And look at the glut of extremely talented power forwards in the league right now.
sethvega
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This is an easy argument....Michael Jordan.
Magic and Larry were great and very talented but each had the benefit of multiple Hall-of-Famers on their team that included dominant centers (Kareem and Robert Parish)
Jerry West was a great player but only won one ring as a player. Plenty of players can make that claim.
Wilt and Russell were dominant in their day since defense didn't exist then.
Won't even talk about Shaq and Kobe.
LeBron is the closest thing to MJ today....period.
Jordan had one HOF player (Pippen) and pathetic big men (Perdue, Longley, Wennington, etc.) supporting him.
Case rested....and you all know it.
Magic and Larry were great and very talented but each had the benefit of multiple Hall-of-Famers on their team that included dominant centers (Kareem and Robert Parish)
Jerry West was a great player but only won one ring as a player. Plenty of players can make that claim.
Wilt and Russell were dominant in their day since defense didn't exist then.
Won't even talk about Shaq and Kobe.
LeBron is the closest thing to MJ today....period.
Jordan had one HOF player (Pippen) and pathetic big men (Perdue, Longley, Wennington, etc.) supporting him.
Case rested....and you all know it.
dragonreborn23
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For some reason I couldn't find Vlade Divac name anywhere....hrmm...
magforce x
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Minute Bol. I believe he once scored 130 points in a game in his African village.
[quote name='dragonreborn23']For some reason I couldn't find Vlade Divac name anywhere....hrmm...[/QUOTE]
LMAO... just had to repost this shit cause i thought it was funny as hell. but seriously guys, this isn't even a contest, Michael Jordan is by far the best player of all time. look at all his stat categories and the passion he played with. plus he never did have the supporting crew anyone else did. i'm going to leave you with a thought.. MJ would beat anyone in this poll 1 on 1...
LMAO... just had to repost this shit cause i thought it was funny as hell. but seriously guys, this isn't even a contest, Michael Jordan is by far the best player of all time. look at all his stat categories and the passion he played with. plus he never did have the supporting crew anyone else did. i'm going to leave you with a thought.. MJ would beat anyone in this poll 1 on 1...
bread's done