Black Teen Shot, Killed By Neighborhood Watch
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Purple Flames
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I found this on another forum. I was quite amused when I saw it:
"Though civil rights demonstrators have argued Zimmerman should not have prejudged Martin, one black neighbor of the Zimmermans said recent history should be taken into account.
"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."
Doh, I totally agree with you on the ballistics. Did the prosecution make a huge deal out of it? If TM was in the full mount position, it would seem like GZ would have shot at an upwards angle. Maybe TM and GZ chests were parallel, like lying on top of each other? The wound seems high on the chest also. I would like to see the line of questioning and GZ's defense explain this. More detail than "I shot him." I didn't say that this would screw GZ, I said it would be trouble. I want to see and hear GZ's explanation, but this is the best evidence for a case against GZ that I have seen.
http://www.wtsp.com/news/photo-gallery.aspx?storyid=255685
I've been to plenty of idiots fighting on calls, and the scalp is very vascular so bleeding can often make the injuries look worse than they are, but you can not tell me GZ didn't take a beating that night.
"Let's talk about the elephant in the room. I'm black, OK?" the woman said, declining to be identified because she anticipated backlash due to her race. She leaned in to look a reporter directly in the eyes. "There were black boys robbing houses in this neighborhood," she said. "That's why George was suspicious of Trayvon Martin."
Doh, I totally agree with you on the ballistics. Did the prosecution make a huge deal out of it? If TM was in the full mount position, it would seem like GZ would have shot at an upwards angle. Maybe TM and GZ chests were parallel, like lying on top of each other? The wound seems high on the chest also. I would like to see the line of questioning and GZ's defense explain this. More detail than "I shot him." I didn't say that this would screw GZ, I said it would be trouble. I want to see and hear GZ's explanation, but this is the best evidence for a case against GZ that I have seen.
http://www.wtsp.com/news/photo-gallery.aspx?storyid=255685
I've been to plenty of idiots fighting on calls, and the scalp is very vascular so bleeding can often make the injuries look worse than they are, but you can not tell me GZ didn't take a beating that night.
Purple Flames
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Martin had absolutely zero defensive wounds on his body, which indicates that Zimmerman made no effort to resort to non-lethal methods of "defending himself" before going for his gun and pulling the trigger. For a guy who was a former bouncer, this is pretty glaring. That is a critical blow to his defense claims.
mrsilkunderwear
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I know Msut77 has me on the ignore list but this takes the case for clueless post of the day. I wonder how he would feel if someone started beating him in the face in a dark alley at night without another soul in sight. Would he consider that life threatening? I would say it is a possibility as you do not know what the strangers are capable of.
Maybe he used his hands to block the blows? Did GZ mention if he returned any blows back to TM?
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Purple Flames
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mrsilkunderwear
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Then how did Zimmerman get hurt? Didn't the police come by soon after 911 calls were made? Do you think he decided to do this to himself in the meantime? Or am I missing something?
Could you believe that it is a possibility to not have bruised hands but still throw a few punches? I do not think it was 30 punches and maybe just an exaggeration in the heat of the moment. Is it not a possibility that he was blocking his face while TM was landing those punches therefore not all the blows went through and skin did not break? And maybe he was using other parts than his knuckles like the bottom part of the fist or even the back.
Purple Flames
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Hell Zimmerman could have gotten those injuries shaving his head, but if you wanna stick with it happening during the confrontation, he probably slipped and scraped his head on the concrete. Having your head slammed over and over would leave massive cranial damage, and he definitely would have gone to the hospital. All the PS who testified said Zimmerman declined any any all offers to go to the hospital, and the very next day he seemed more concerend with not missing work that what transpired the night before.
That would still leave noticeable trauma on his hands. Remember, Zimmerman is attesting to having taken a brutal beatdown. He said Martin punched him repeatedly, slammed his head into the concrete dozens of times, covered his mouth, and went for his gun. None of the evidence supports his story.
That would still leave noticeable trauma on his hands. Remember, Zimmerman is attesting to having taken a brutal beatdown. He said Martin punched him repeatedly, slammed his head into the concrete dozens of times, covered his mouth, and went for his gun. None of the evidence supports his story.
mrsilkunderwear
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They examined TM hands but what about Zimmerman? Did they examine his body that night or sometime soon after? Did they find any blood or scraped off skin on the concrete at the scene?
Purple Flames
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That's the weird thing. He wasn't given any of the standard tests you'd usually administer in a case like this: drug tests, breathalyzers, nothing. All they did was clean him up, take a few photos if his scrapes, and sent him on his way.
I believe Martin's body was examined the next day according to Dr. Bao's testimony from Friday.
There was no DNA found at the scene of the crime at all. Not on the sidewalk or the grass.
I believe Martin's body was examined the next day according to Dr. Bao's testimony from Friday.
There was no DNA found at the scene of the crime at all. Not on the sidewalk or the grass.
Purple Flames
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Just tuned back in. The defense only seems to be trotting out Zimmerman's friends and family thus far.
- Zimmerman's friend Ostermann who wrote the book is back on the stand. The state got him to admit that the gun would be very hard to see in the dark and that GZ was in no way law enforcement. According to Ostermann, the holster couldn't have been seen unless you knew it was there. That contradicts GZ's story that Martin saw and went for his gun.
- Geri Russo, a friend of Zimmerman's, is on the stand. She says she's never heard him scream before, yet say say with certainty that it's him.
- The defense's strategy seems to be :1) Call Zimmerman's friends and family to the stand 2) Play the 911 tape 3) say it's him.
- Same deal with this next witness.
- John Donley is on the stand now. He's a physician's assistant and yet another one of GZ's friends. this guy spent an awful lot of money to prep GZ for the trial: 3k donated to his personal site, and over 1700 spent on clothes.
- Officer Singleton, the other cop to interview Zimmerman, is back on the stand. The judge wouldn't allow the defense to ask what Martin's dad said when he heard the tape because that would be hearsay.
- Officer Serino is back on the stand. He said that when Tracy Martin was asked if it was his son on the 911 tape, he said no.
- On the cross, the state seems to be saying that the no was in disbelief.
- The state brought up that Zimmerman said himself that he wasn't the one screaming on the 911 tape.
- The guy that owns the gym that Zimmerman went to is on the stand.
- They're trying to explain the "ground and pound" with a live demonstration. This a thing that's happening. he said that in a year of training Zimmerman went from an 0.5 to a 1 in proficiency.
- They're calling Martin's dad.
- He said he never said distinctly that it wasn't his son screaming for help. He also asked why Zimmerman even got out of the car to follow his son.
- Billy Ray Lee Jr, the former chief of police in Sanford, is on the stand now. He wasn't in the room with Martin's family when the 911 tape was played.
All done for the day.
- Zimmerman's friend Ostermann who wrote the book is back on the stand. The state got him to admit that the gun would be very hard to see in the dark and that GZ was in no way law enforcement. According to Ostermann, the holster couldn't have been seen unless you knew it was there. That contradicts GZ's story that Martin saw and went for his gun.
- Geri Russo, a friend of Zimmerman's, is on the stand. She says she's never heard him scream before, yet say say with certainty that it's him.
- The defense's strategy seems to be :1) Call Zimmerman's friends and family to the stand 2) Play the 911 tape 3) say it's him.
- Same deal with this next witness.
- John Donley is on the stand now. He's a physician's assistant and yet another one of GZ's friends. this guy spent an awful lot of money to prep GZ for the trial: 3k donated to his personal site, and over 1700 spent on clothes.
- Officer Singleton, the other cop to interview Zimmerman, is back on the stand. The judge wouldn't allow the defense to ask what Martin's dad said when he heard the tape because that would be hearsay.
- Officer Serino is back on the stand. He said that when Tracy Martin was asked if it was his son on the 911 tape, he said no.
- On the cross, the state seems to be saying that the no was in disbelief.
- The state brought up that Zimmerman said himself that he wasn't the one screaming on the 911 tape.
- The guy that owns the gym that Zimmerman went to is on the stand.
- They're trying to explain the "ground and pound" with a live demonstration. This a thing that's happening. he said that in a year of training Zimmerman went from an 0.5 to a 1 in proficiency.
- They're calling Martin's dad.
- He said he never said distinctly that it wasn't his son screaming for help. He also asked why Zimmerman even got out of the car to follow his son.
- Billy Ray Lee Jr, the former chief of police in Sanford, is on the stand now. He wasn't in the room with Martin's family when the 911 tape was played.
All done for the day.
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Purple Flames
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it's not about waiting until injuries are life threatening in this case. Its's about how his injuries are inconsistent with his story. I'm not gonna repeat everything I've typed from testimony over the last few weeks, but absolutely none of the forensic evidence supports any part of Zimmerman's story of being brutally beaten by Trayvon Martin.
I believe we have a bingo.
Purple Flames
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One last bit from the end of the trial today: The judge ruled the defense can introduce the toxicology reports from Martin's autopsy report. I hope this opens the door for allowing the state to show that Zimmerman was on Restoril around the time of the shooting.
EDIT: Someone over on the SA forums was kind enough to compile all of the inconsistencies from Zimmerman's various accounts of what happened that evening:
EDIT: Someone over on the SA forums was kind enough to compile all of the inconsistencies from Zimmerman's various accounts of what happened that evening:
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Purple Flames
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Back to the trial:
- The defense is trying to have some sort of animation show, but I think they're having technical difficulties.
- The judge is postponing the animation because it's taking too damn long.
- Dr. Di Maio has taken the stand for the defense. He's a private physician. He's here to testify that the evidence was packaged improperly.
- Di maio is also another ballistics experts and is also here I presume to testify about Zimmerman's injuries.
- He says that the gun was against the clothing but 2-4 inches away from the skin. That's similar to what Dr. Bao said.
- Fun fact: Di Maio has said he's done ballistics testing on live animals. There are two animal rescuers on the jury.
- This guy is saying basically the exact same things Dr. Bao mentioned in his testimony. The only thing different he's saying is that Martin could have possibly moved around a lot more.
- Di Maio is talking about the head injuries. He's trying to make the argument that you could have serious internal damage to your head (i.e slamming your head on the concrete) with no real visible marks on the skin.
- Di Maio is making a conscious effort to mention that all of the pictures the defense is showing him are of terrible quality.
- Not sure if it's out of the ordinary, but during the state's cross, Dr. Di Mao just confirmed that he's on the defense's payroll. He also said that the scrapes on Zimmerman's head could have come from hitting his own head during the struggle. Even he thinks Zimmerman's wounds were insignificant.
- The injuries to Martin's hands were so insignificant they'd have had to examine the skin underneath to detect any real trauma. This is the defense's witness, mind you.
- Exchange during the state's cross:
State: If I put my hands over a bloody nose, what would you expect on my hands?
Di Maio: Blood
- When Zimmerman was tended to, he had a GCS (Glasgow Coma Scale) of 15. That means he was fully alert walking straight and talking clearly.
- He feels that if Zimmerman had the life-threatening injuries he felt came from the savage beatdown he claimed, he should have gone to the hospital. He didn't. Once again, this is the defense's witness.
- Di Maio is off the stand.
- The Florida City Manager is on the stand now. He played the 911 tapes for Martin's family.
- Well that was pointless.
- They're phoning in another witness.
- Defense just said they're likely to rest tomorrow.
- The next long-distance witness, is a neighbor who lived in the complex who came home after the shooting.
- Aaaand another one of Zimmerman's associates says it was him screaming on the 911 tape despite the fact that she's never heard him scream before.
- She's all done. Not sure what the point of that was. She said she saw Zimmerman's truck. No one at any point ever disputed that.
All done for the day except for the issue about the animation the defense wanted to show.
It turns out Donnely, one of the defense's witnesses watched the court proceedings. You're not supposed to do that.
- The defense is trying to have some sort of animation show, but I think they're having technical difficulties.
- The judge is postponing the animation because it's taking too damn long.
- Dr. Di Maio has taken the stand for the defense. He's a private physician. He's here to testify that the evidence was packaged improperly.
- Di maio is also another ballistics experts and is also here I presume to testify about Zimmerman's injuries.
- He says that the gun was against the clothing but 2-4 inches away from the skin. That's similar to what Dr. Bao said.
- Fun fact: Di Maio has said he's done ballistics testing on live animals. There are two animal rescuers on the jury.
- This guy is saying basically the exact same things Dr. Bao mentioned in his testimony. The only thing different he's saying is that Martin could have possibly moved around a lot more.
- Di Maio is talking about the head injuries. He's trying to make the argument that you could have serious internal damage to your head (i.e slamming your head on the concrete) with no real visible marks on the skin.
- Di Maio is making a conscious effort to mention that all of the pictures the defense is showing him are of terrible quality.
- Not sure if it's out of the ordinary, but during the state's cross, Dr. Di Mao just confirmed that he's on the defense's payroll. He also said that the scrapes on Zimmerman's head could have come from hitting his own head during the struggle. Even he thinks Zimmerman's wounds were insignificant.
- The injuries to Martin's hands were so insignificant they'd have had to examine the skin underneath to detect any real trauma. This is the defense's witness, mind you.
- Exchange during the state's cross:
State: If I put my hands over a bloody nose, what would you expect on my hands?
Di Maio: Blood
- When Zimmerman was tended to, he had a GCS (Glasgow Coma Scale) of 15. That means he was fully alert walking straight and talking clearly.
- He feels that if Zimmerman had the life-threatening injuries he felt came from the savage beatdown he claimed, he should have gone to the hospital. He didn't. Once again, this is the defense's witness.
- Di Maio is off the stand.
- The Florida City Manager is on the stand now. He played the 911 tapes for Martin's family.
- Well that was pointless.
- They're phoning in another witness.
- Defense just said they're likely to rest tomorrow.
- The next long-distance witness, is a neighbor who lived in the complex who came home after the shooting.
- Aaaand another one of Zimmerman's associates says it was him screaming on the 911 tape despite the fact that she's never heard him scream before.
- She's all done. Not sure what the point of that was. She said she saw Zimmerman's truck. No one at any point ever disputed that.
All done for the day except for the issue about the animation the defense wanted to show.
It turns out Donnely, one of the defense's witnesses watched the court proceedings. You're not supposed to do that.
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perdition(troy
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I read something about pot being involved now in trayvons system. What are they trying to prove by bringing that up? That he was even more chill that night than we thought?
Purple Flames
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I think they're gonna try to prove that Martin was paranoid that night, despite the face that he only had trace amounts of THC in his system. He could have had his last smoke upward to two weeks before the shooting.
Do you mind if I ask to whom are you referring when you say "those people"? And I don't think GZ will walk. If he does, I imagine whichever group you're referring to will do a lot more than riot.
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Purple Flames
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Just ignore gunnm. He's one of the laziest trolls in the VS forum.
I think that's where it will go too, but considering the trace amounts, prosecution could probably argue that he was more calm compared to paranoid, or whatever. I really want to hear what the Dr. says about the effect of trace amounts of THC though.
Question:
Was the "trace amounts" of THC found in TM's blood or urine?
Answer: Blood
^ This means he would have had to of literally smoked that day/afternoon/night.
Regardless I think it is irrelevant to the case too.
DurbanBrown
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i still think GZ is not guilty. very unfortunate situation, but I dont feel he should be incarcerated.
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I'm sure someone could challenge these but they would be banned for doing so over there.
Ummm...no.
edit: LOLZ I think I figured out why you have the h8torade for SA: you got banned for being racist, didn't you?
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Purple Flames
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Purple Flames
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Trials back on. The defense cannot use the animation nor the text messages as evidence.
- Another MMA/weapons expert is on the stand, however thanks to the state's objections he can't make any real comment relevant to the events of the evening because it would all be opinion and speculation.
- During the state's cross, it's revealed that the witness approached Zimmerman's attorney to testify. The state is implying that he only did it to promote his company on national television.
- The state is using a dummy in a live demonstration to show how improbably the scenario put forth by Zimmerman's account was. There's no way Martin could have reached for the gun, let alone know it was there if he were on top the way Zimmerman claims. The gun would have been behind Martin's left leg well out of his field of vision. This is compounded by the fact that it was dark.
- The state is destroying this guy on the stand. For context, Zimmerman sliding down and exposing his gun putting it behind Martin and out of sight. Martin had no way of seeing it unless Zimmerman displayed it beforehand.
- Actual exchange from the defense's redirect:
:O'Mara mounts the dummy and starts smashing it against the floor:
O'Mara: Is that consistent with the defendant's injuries
Defense witness: I don't think so
O'Mara: How about this? :O'Mara starts hitting it against the ground softer:
Another exchange:
O'Mara: Do you think Zimmerman has any useful ability to describe how Z got the gun into his hand?
Defense witness: No
So, based on the defense's very own witness, there's NO reason to trust any of Zimmerman's story. Good job guys!
- We're back from recess. The judge is asking Zimmerman if he wants to testify or not. he says he has to discuss it with his attorneys.
- During the re-cross, the witness just mentioned the Jolly Green Giant. I am not making this up.
- Now he's talking about "The Warrior Mindset."
- Mercifully, this witness is done.
- Olivia Bertalan is on the stand now. Yet another neighbor of Zimmerman's. She's telling a story about how her house was almost broken into by two black guys previously. What this has to do with the trial I have no idea. I can only assume this is a sad attempt at a "young black guys in the neighborhood are scary" defense. This wtiness could backfire for the defense because it gives credit to the idea that Martin was racially profiled.
- Zimmerman's father is taking the stand now. Just another witness to way it was GZ on the 911 tape.
-When they get back from recess we;re gonna find out if Zimmerman is gonna testify.
-Zimmerman's not gonna testify.
- The second motion for acquittal is denied, and I believe the defense rested. The state is bringing back Zimmerman's MMA trainer as a rebuttal witness.
- This guy just lied his ass off. He said he wasn't promoting the training he gave Zimmerman on his website. The link is right here: http://www.kogym.com/zimmerman.htm
- The state wants to bring in a guy who brought charges against Zimmerman for attacking a cop. The judge grants it based on the availability of the witness. Looks like we're done for the day.
- Another MMA/weapons expert is on the stand, however thanks to the state's objections he can't make any real comment relevant to the events of the evening because it would all be opinion and speculation.
- During the state's cross, it's revealed that the witness approached Zimmerman's attorney to testify. The state is implying that he only did it to promote his company on national television.
- The state is using a dummy in a live demonstration to show how improbably the scenario put forth by Zimmerman's account was. There's no way Martin could have reached for the gun, let alone know it was there if he were on top the way Zimmerman claims. The gun would have been behind Martin's left leg well out of his field of vision. This is compounded by the fact that it was dark.
- The state is destroying this guy on the stand. For context, Zimmerman sliding down and exposing his gun putting it behind Martin and out of sight. Martin had no way of seeing it unless Zimmerman displayed it beforehand.
- Actual exchange from the defense's redirect:
:O'Mara mounts the dummy and starts smashing it against the floor:
O'Mara: Is that consistent with the defendant's injuries
Defense witness: I don't think so
O'Mara: How about this? :O'Mara starts hitting it against the ground softer:
Another exchange:
O'Mara: Do you think Zimmerman has any useful ability to describe how Z got the gun into his hand?
Defense witness: No
So, based on the defense's very own witness, there's NO reason to trust any of Zimmerman's story. Good job guys!
- We're back from recess. The judge is asking Zimmerman if he wants to testify or not. he says he has to discuss it with his attorneys.
- During the re-cross, the witness just mentioned the Jolly Green Giant. I am not making this up.
- Now he's talking about "The Warrior Mindset."
- Mercifully, this witness is done.
- Olivia Bertalan is on the stand now. Yet another neighbor of Zimmerman's. She's telling a story about how her house was almost broken into by two black guys previously. What this has to do with the trial I have no idea. I can only assume this is a sad attempt at a "young black guys in the neighborhood are scary" defense. This wtiness could backfire for the defense because it gives credit to the idea that Martin was racially profiled.
- Zimmerman's father is taking the stand now. Just another witness to way it was GZ on the 911 tape.
-When they get back from recess we;re gonna find out if Zimmerman is gonna testify.
-Zimmerman's not gonna testify.
- The second motion for acquittal is denied, and I believe the defense rested. The state is bringing back Zimmerman's MMA trainer as a rebuttal witness.
- This guy just lied his ass off. He said he wasn't promoting the training he gave Zimmerman on his website. The link is right here: http://www.kogym.com/zimmerman.htm
- The state wants to bring in a guy who brought charges against Zimmerman for attacking a cop. The judge grants it based on the availability of the witness. Looks like we're done for the day.
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the entire thing is rigged anyways..
you know if he is set free what he should be any stupid mother
er will riot just to riot not even knowing what they are rioting about.
if he is set free they will complain how there was not a single black person on the jury and demand another hearing (why do you think they picked almost a pure white jury to play the race card when they lose)
you know if he is set free what he should be any stupid mother
er will riot just to riot not even knowing what they are rioting about.if he is set free they will complain how there was not a single black person on the jury and demand another hearing (why do you think they picked almost a pure white jury to play the race card when they lose)
So I've read the trial summaries a few of the posters in this thread have offered, and I gotta tell ya, they're pretty much wildly inconsistent with what is happening based on the video I've seen. We're all guilty of putting our spin on things, but in the bits I've seen, the analysis of attorneys is, "OK defense, you won. Just wrap the case up and your guy is off for murder. Maybe he'll get manslaughter, but after the defense's medical examiner testified and ripped to shreds the State's rambling, poorly prepared examiner, you got this."
The burden is so high for the State, and the questions surrounding it all are so great, that I've got to think any reasonable jury would say that reasonable doubt has been established. Yes, I think by following the kid, Zimmerman put himself in a position to set this all in motion, but it sounds like it's been clearly established that Martin was on top, Zimmerman clearly had injuries (Purple Flame, my man, I keep on trying to get my brain wrapped around how you overlook rather significant injuries to the face), and the defense's medical examiner clearly explained how ballistics show that the shirt would be hanging off of Martin, thus the 2-4 inches from the body. Whether it's as the State contends, it could have been because Martin was sitting up to get away, or as Zimmerman does, he was catching an ass-whooping from the guy on top, we can at least safely assume Martin was on top. Beyond that, there's a lot of theory and doubt.
Not crazy about Zimmerman creating a bad situation, then making it worse, but dang, as much of a creep as he is, I have lots and lots of doubts that in his mind, and under the legal definition, he didn't act in self-defense.
The burden is so high for the State, and the questions surrounding it all are so great, that I've got to think any reasonable jury would say that reasonable doubt has been established. Yes, I think by following the kid, Zimmerman put himself in a position to set this all in motion, but it sounds like it's been clearly established that Martin was on top, Zimmerman clearly had injuries (Purple Flame, my man, I keep on trying to get my brain wrapped around how you overlook rather significant injuries to the face), and the defense's medical examiner clearly explained how ballistics show that the shirt would be hanging off of Martin, thus the 2-4 inches from the body. Whether it's as the State contends, it could have been because Martin was sitting up to get away, or as Zimmerman does, he was catching an ass-whooping from the guy on top, we can at least safely assume Martin was on top. Beyond that, there's a lot of theory and doubt.
Not crazy about Zimmerman creating a bad situation, then making it worse, but dang, as much of a creep as he is, I have lots and lots of doubts that in his mind, and under the legal definition, he didn't act in self-defense.
Purple Flames
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You're speaking of Zimmerman's possibly broken nose? No one can say for sure if it was broken because GZ never went to get an official diagnosis. All you can say for sure it that it was bloody an injured. The fact that the swelling went down that very same night leads me to believe that it was, but I'm not a medical examiner, so I can only speculate.
http://democrats.judiciary.house.gov/press-release/house-judiciary-democrats-encourage-department-justice-review-trayvon-martin-shooting
Maybe they listened to MSNBC's edited tape?
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/07/10/newly-released-documents-detail-the-department-of-justices-role-in-organizing-trayvon-martin-protests/
Is this common practice? Is it even legal? Taxpayer money being spent to help protests against a US citizen?
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/05/04/third-nbc-employee-fired-for-false-zimmerman-edit/
GZ might end up with a couple million after this whole thing....
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/07/13/fbi-george-zimmerman-is-not-a-racist/
Hmmmmm....
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/06/27/george-zimmerman-passed-a-lie-detector-test-the-day-after-his-confrontation-with-trayvon-martin/
Voice stress test??? Did they also give him the traditional one?
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/07/09/russell-simmons-whether-guilty-or-innocent-zimmerman-will-ultimately-
"Whether George Zimmerman is found innocent or guilty by the jury, I am firm believer that all of us live by karmic law, and he will ultimately be punished for the death of Trayvon, no matter what."
"So if found innocent - which he obviously believes he is - Zimmerman will karmically be punished for having legally saved his own life in self defense?
I thought bad karma comes from performing misdeeds.
Apparently to Simmons, legally saving your own life is a misdeed."
What are the odds on Zimmerman in this year's deadpool?
Maybe they listened to MSNBC's edited tape?
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2013/07/10/newly-released-documents-detail-the-department-of-justices-role-in-organizing-trayvon-martin-protests/
Is this common practice? Is it even legal? Taxpayer money being spent to help protests against a US citizen?
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/05/04/third-nbc-employee-fired-for-false-zimmerman-edit/
GZ might end up with a couple million after this whole thing....
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/07/13/fbi-george-zimmerman-is-not-a-racist/
Hmmmmm....
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2012/06/27/george-zimmerman-passed-a-lie-detector-test-the-day-after-his-confrontation-with-trayvon-martin/
Voice stress test??? Did they also give him the traditional one?
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2013/07/09/russell-simmons-whether-guilty-or-innocent-zimmerman-will-ultimately-
"Whether George Zimmerman is found innocent or guilty by the jury, I am firm believer that all of us live by karmic law, and he will ultimately be punished for the death of Trayvon, no matter what."
"So if found innocent - which he obviously believes he is - Zimmerman will karmically be punished for having legally saved his own life in self defense?
I thought bad karma comes from performing misdeeds.
Apparently to Simmons, legally saving your own life is a misdeed."
What are the odds on Zimmerman in this year's deadpool?
Broken, bloodied, I'm certain no doc either, in fact I've never broken my nose so I don't have good personal experience there. (I have broken a couple of noses playing basketball, but that's the closest I've come).
The blood and bruising on the back of the head too. I mean, indisputably, clearly he was bruised and bloodied. The question is whether it was as painful, scary, and life threatening as Zimmerman claims it was. But he didn't get those by falling down the stairs. He caught a bit of an ass whooping is what it appears, and caught it from a guy who was at some point on top of him.
His wounds were minor and didn't require treatment from a hospital. If unarmed Person-A punches armed Person-B, Person-B can assume that they're about to die and rightfully kill Person-A? Is that how the law works in Florida?
If the law is that, you don't have to wait for life-threatening injury to occur but instead have a fear of life-threatening injury, this law is pretty much greater than everything else, right?
In Florida, If somebody looks at me strangely, I can then be afraid for my life (or afraid that they're about to cause life-threatening injury) and lawfully kill them?
Well, let's be clear: the head is a very vascular part of the body. This means that for all intents and purposes, the head is a gigantic blood-gorged sponge in a thin wrapper. This is why popping a zit will bleed more than a paper cut, which also explains the "large" blood streaks coming from Zimmerman's head. Saying that he would've bleed more if he cut his head shaving is no exaggeration. The fact that Martin's hands and wrists had no damage beyond the superficialest of scrapes under one knuckle doesn't jive with any of Zimmerman's accounts of that night. Judging from the numerous occasions that he's been less than honest about things related to the case, I have no problem with believing that Zimmerman is being less than honest with his various accounts. Especially when it comes to Martin being able to talk while his heart was filling his lungs with blood according to Dr. Bao.
Yes, this is pretty much how it works.
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I don't think I said any of that. I haven't been in a fight with someone on top of me, so I don't really have much to create a theory on how I would react. I've trained a good bit in grappling, so if I'm on the ground, I'd actually feel far less threatened than if it were a stand up fight. If Martin was able to bloody Zimmerman's nose and back of his head by looking at him, Superman is a pussy. That would be a real super power.
But to your second question, yes, if you fear for your life, and worry that unless you take immediate action your life will be in danger, in most states you can use lethal force. Florida's is even stronger in that regard. Many states require that you establish you cannot escape or take other actions to avoid lethal defense. Otherwise a guy could pull a knife, try to stab you, but you couldn't defend yourself until you were actually stabbed (in an area that would cause death). That wouldn't make much sense, would it?
I feel like you're looking at this emotionally rather than analytically.
Doh, whoops, posted right when you quoted me. You're absolutely right. I don't trust Zimmerman's entire account, head and face injuries bleed like crazy, and what looks nasty and painful could very well be the least significant of injuries.
That's where the mentality of the person being hit comes in, the series of events, and whether they feel their life is in danger. Which is debatable, thus the reason we're all following a trial about it.
That's where the mentality of the person being hit comes in, the series of events, and whether they feel their life is in danger. Which is debatable, thus the reason we're all following a trial about it.
jputahraptor
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You can have a concussion without your head being busted open. I'm not saying he did, but if someone is slamming your head into the ground, you can lose consciousness and then it could be anyone's guess what could happen to you from the person beating you. People get tackled with a helmet on in football games, it's not far fetched. And everyone is different, remember GZ was a lot thinner when this happened, I haven't been in fight but I can imagine that you may feel really threatened in the heat of the moment and then realize later that you don't have broken bones or grave wounds. I'm not justifying the outcome, but people are just looking at the outcome and ignoring what goes through your mind when you feel threatened.
And before somebody says, well than he should have stayed in his car, well we don't know who confronted who for sure, perhaps GZ went looking a little turned around and TM came back and confronted him or maybe GZ caught TM hiding, even though TM had a lead and was only 70 meters or so from his place, it's possible he still hid.
And before somebody says, well than he should have stayed in his car, well we don't know who confronted who for sure, perhaps GZ went looking a little turned around and TM came back and confronted him or maybe GZ caught TM hiding, even though TM had a lead and was only 70 meters or so from his place, it's possible he still hid.
Please don't feel like this, I wouldn't say it was accurate.
The lack of GZ's DNA on TM, the lack of relevant wounds on TM's hands, and Dr. Rao's detailing of GZ's "very minor, very little" abrasions - coupled with the fact that swelling on his nose had alleviated in just a few hours - these facts are important to my analysis.
This isn't accurate, GZ has confessed to following TM in his car before getting out of his car and following TM on foot.
Fair enough. My apologies. The Dr. Bao guy has come under quite a bit of fire for several of his medical opinions that other docs think were wildly inaccurate, so I'm not giving him much credibility to him considering several docs (a couple not associated with the trial at all) have major concerns over his analysis, but you're right, I'd definitely expect to see more signs of damage to Martin's hands. The question still remains though, how did his nose get bloodied, if the prosecution started off telling us Zimmerman was on top until that was debunked, what else are they wrong on, and according to Florida law, with these things considered, did Zimmerman legally defend himself, or did he kill a guy he was in an altercation with unnecessarily. No pun intended, but the jury is still out on that one.
Right, which is also why I agree that Murder 2 is beyond ridiculous, but that doesn't mean that he gets an automatic acquittal like pro-Zimmers idiotically think because Murder 2 includes all lesser charges like Manslaughter in the state of FL. What you're describing is exactly what needs to be addressed for the Manslaughter conviction and in the state of FL, all you need is reasonable doubt that Zimmerman is telling the truth and/or instigated the confrontation.
edit: Honestly, it would not surprise me if he gave himself a few whacks to the noggin. You can tell from the videos and photos at the police station that he picked at the back of his head and opened up the scrapes again.
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No I really mean Dr. Rao, the female doctor called by the prosecution last week...(or maybe the week before last?). The punch in question is a point of speculation for me too though, although I have a hard time buying the "GZ was following him and then lost sight of TM and then GZ started to leave but TM appeared behind him and punched GZ" theory.
And at a higher legal level, this is fascinating. If the State can allege the highest of crimes, and include multiple less severe crimes for the same action, it seems a little like playing "guess a number between 1-5" and giving them four tries. But that's just my rant on the legal practice of charging until something finally sticks.
Ah, gotcha. I didn't see anything by her. I saw Bao, then the defense's medical examiner from yesterday or two days ago. Then the docs that disagree with Bao's analysis and agreed with the defense's, were some guys on CNN (I know doh, I'm still watching some of that crap! haa)
bread's done