Black Teen Shot, Killed By Neighborhood Watch

[quote name='mykevermin']http://jezebel.com/5896408/racist-hunger-games-fans-dont-care-how-much-money-the-movie-made

This seems off topic, but does have some relevant points to the topic of racism.[/QUOTE]Since you posted that I'm going to write this here, as I've wanted to say something but didn't feel a whole thread was necessary.

You might remember me saying before that I work at a local university, and because of that I see emails that sometimes probably shouldn't have been sent to everyone on campus.

Anyway, a lot of the professors here have taken it upon themselves to, I think, read waaay too much into this movie and series of books. I saw the movie, it wasn't some sort of social commentary work of art. It could have been, but it's for kids sop they don't take the real chances or make some of the points they could have. Some sociology professors are going as far as to give extra credit to students who have seen the movie. It's just ridiculous. The movie and book series is basically Twilight mixed with Mad Max and then watered down for a teen audience, not The Great Gatsby. It almost feels like 1984 for tweens.
 
[quote name='Clak']Since you posted that I'm going to write this here, as I've wanted to say something but didn't feel a whole thread was necessary.

You might remember me saying before that I work at a local university, and because of that I see emails that sometimes probably shouldn't have been sent to everyone on campus.

Anyway, a lot of the professors here have taken it upon themselves to, I think, read waaay too much into this movie and series of books. I saw the movie, it wasn't some sort of social commentary work of art. It could have been, but it's for kids sop they don't take the real chances or make some of the points they could have. Some sociology professors are going as far as to give extra credit to students who have seen the movie. It's just ridiculous. The movie and book series is basically Twilight mixed with Mad Max and then watered down for a teen audience, not The Great Gatsby. It almost feels like 1984 for tweens.[/QUOTE]

What the hell, professors are giving credit for this book? This is a teen book, while I enjoyed the book quite a bit, definitely should not be something that you get credit for.
 
[quote name='Clak']Since you posted that I'm going to write this here, as I've wanted to say something but didn't feel a whole thread was necessary.

You might remember me saying before that I work at a local university, and because of that I see emails that sometimes probably shouldn't have been sent to everyone on campus.

Anyway, a lot of the professors here have taken it upon themselves to, I think, read waaay too much into this movie and series of books. I saw the movie, it wasn't some sort of social commentary work of art. It could have been, but it's for kids sop they don't take the real chances or make some of the points they could have. Some sociology professors are going as far as to give extra credit to students who have seen the movie. It's just ridiculous. The movie and book series is basically Twilight mixed with Mad Max and then watered down for a teen audience, not The Great Gatsby.[/QUOTE]
It's important to understand that there are always stories behind the stories. The Last Airbender, 21, Avatar, Thor, and even fucking Transformers are vapid movies, but the controversy around it also teaches us things. Just because things weren't purposely put into the movie, and sometimes they are, doesn't mean that we can't look at it with a critical eye to see what's really there. Depending on the lens we used, a movie as vapid as Hunger Games can yield some interesting observations both inside and around the movie.

For example, a sociology professor might give extra credit for students that watch it and describe how concepts they learned in class are applied in the movies. I personally don't think it's a great way to engage students because there are plenty of other vapid movies to choose from that are free, but that's an argument for another thread.
 
[quote name='soulvengeance']What the hell, professors are giving credit for this book? This is a teen book, while I enjoyed the book quite a bit, definitely should not be something that you get credit for.[/QUOTE]
I'm not kidding, I wish I were, but I'm completely serious. One of them, making a list of points it hits on, even mentioned biochemistry, as if that healing goo was realistic. Some of these people I know fairly well, and I was just shaking my head reading that.
 
Assuming that you live in a neighborhood like Zimmerman, feel free to google maps it, so you think that you know ALL of your neighbors? I'm pretty sure there are answers to the first two questions. As for dispatch, he asks if Martin is white, black, or Hispanic. Looking black could mean that he's possibly Hispanic with a dark complexion.
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I googled it earlier this morning just so I could have an idea of what type of neighborhood it was. I'm not 100% certain it was the right house (it was the address Spike Lee tweeted, correct me if I'm wrong because I definitely could be). It's a little bigger than my neighborhood, and mine is a little more "upscale" I guess would be the wording (larger homes, more land etc). I don't "know" all of my neighbors, but I could recognize the faces of people who live in it and those who don't.

Seeing as the shooter is Hispanic, I don't really know what it matters if he meant black or hispanic. From my googling and reading different stories I haven't found the answer to the location of the shooting vs the car.
 
[quote name='Clak'] I saw the movie, it wasn't some sort of social commentary work of art. It could have been, but it's for kids sop they don't take the real chances or make some of the points they could have. ...... The movie and book series is basically Twilight mixed with Mad Max and then watered down for a teen audience, not The Great Gatsby. It almost feels like 1984 for tweens.[/QUOTE]

elitist much?

Plus I love reading commentary from someone who hasn't even read the books. fucking awesome.

Look I am not going to claim the writing was epic and the story was original but certainly there are societal issues within the book that are ripe for deeper discussion- role of gov't, role of media, the haves vs. have nots, the role of women, etc. But I guess because it's not 100 years old or Japanese, it must suck.
 
[quote name='dohdough']It's important to understand that there are always stories behind the stories. The Last Airbender, 21, Avatar, Thor, and even fucking Transformers are vapid movies, but the controversy around it also teaches us things. Just because things weren't purposely put into the movie, and sometimes they are, doesn't mean that we can't look at it with a critical eye to see what's really there. Depending on the lens we used, a movie as vapid as Hunger Games can yield some interesting observations both inside and around the movie.

For example, a sociology professor might give extra credit for students that watch it and describe how concepts they learned in class are applied in the movies. I personally don't think it's a great way to engage students because there are plenty of other vapid movies to choose from that are free, but that's an argument for another thread.[/QUOTE]
But that's what I'm talking about, I don't know if you've seen this, but there was more real norse mythology in Thor than sociological substance in this movie.

I mean for the target audience it's fine, 13 year olds aren't going to understand anything too deep anyway, but It's ridiculous that grown adults are looking so far into such a shallow movie, especially when there are better examples.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']I googled it earlier this morning just so I could have an idea of what type of neighborhood it was. I'm not 100% certain it was the right house (it was the address Spike Lee tweeted, correct me if I'm wrong because I definitely could be). It's a little bigger than my neighborhood, and mine is a little more "upscale" I guess would be the wording (larger homes, more land etc). I don't "know" all of my neighbors, but I could recognize the faces of people who live in it and those who don't.[/quote]
Even if that's the case, should visitors be accosted(more like stalked) like Martin was?

Seeing as the shooter is Hispanic, I don't really know what it matters if he meant black or hispanic. From my googling and reading different stories I haven't found the answer to the location of the shooting vs the car.
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One drop rule? Really? And you're right, it doesn't matter even when you brought it up as a defense to Zimmerman's predilection for racist mentality when there's something called the Paperbag Test.
 
[quote name='Clak']But that's what I'm talking about, I don't know if you've seen this, but there was more real norse mythology in Thor than sociological substance in this movie.

I mean for the target audience it's fine, 13 year olds aren't going to understand anything too deep anyway, but It's ridiculous that grown adults are looking so far into such a shallow movie, especially when there are better examples.[/QUOTE]

This. It's a good book for the age demographic, I thought the movie was cool, but yeah, not a book I would pick for a college course for social commentary.
 
[quote name='usickenme']elitist much?

Plus I love reading commentary from someone who hasn't even read the books. fucking awesome[/QUOTE]
Was the book that much different from the film, because I've been told by those who read it that it was pretty much spot on. I doubt I'm going to find much substance in a series of books written for children. Hell, mgiht as well give medieval european history students extra credit for watching The Da Vinci Code...

And yeah, I'm an elitist for criticizing adults gushing over a children's movie, right. I thought Twilight was trash too, guess I'm a big ol' elitist because I thought it was ridiculous that middle aged women were freaking out over it too.

Grow the hell up.
 
[quote name='Clak']Was the book that much different from the film, because I've been told by those who read it that it was pretty much spot on. I doubt I'm going to find much substance in a series of books written for children. Hell, mgiht as well give medieval european history students extra credit for watching The Da Vinci Code...

And yeah, I'm an elitist for criticizing adults gushing over a children's movie, right. I thought Twilight was trash too, guess I'm a big ol' elitist because I thought it was ridiculous that middle aged women were freaking out over it too.

Grow the hell up.[/QUOTE]

Well, I wouldn't go as far as to compare Twilight and the Hunger Games. Twilight is complete garbage, pure and simple.
 
Even if that's the case, should visitors be accosted(more like stalked) like Martin was?
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Oh I'd never leave my car in a million years to follow someone, but I have no problem watching someone walk down the street in front of my house while I am still in my car. It isn't my place to "police" my neighborhood. I've already said Zimmerman should have never even had the opportunity to fire on Martin, he should have listened to the dispatch officer from the get go.
One drop rule? Really? And you're right, it doesn't matter even when you brought it up as a defense to Zimmerman's predilection for racist mentality when there's something called the Paperbag Test.
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I had to google the one drop rule, and don't really get how it applies to what I said. I don't know if Zimmerman is black if that is what you are meaning, just that he is Hispanic. You just mentioned that "looked black" could be code possibly Hispanic, and I just said the shooter was Hispanic, and that I didn't know if it mattered much whether he meant black or "possibly Hispanic". The dispatch wanted to know the race, and he gave his best guess.
 
here's a full account of Zimmerman background:
For more than a decade, George Zimmerman dreamed of a life in law enforcement — but instead of becoming a real cop, he lived out his big blue fantasy by tracking down stray dogs, “suspicious” children and other intruders in his gated Florida community.
Before he gunned down unarmed black teenager Trayvon Martin — an incident President Obama confronted Friday, calling it a tragedy — Zimmerman had been a nuisance to 911 operators. He would carry around with him a pistol and the hope that he would one day wear a badge.
PARENTS TELL OF THEIR NIGHTMARE



Zimmerman grew up in Manassas, Va., a Catholic altar boy who was the son of a military man.
He wrote in his senior yearbook that he was “going to Florida to work with my godfather who just bought a $1 million business” — but Zimmerman’s heart was pulling him toward law enforcement.
“He wanted to join the police force — either the State Police or the county police,” said George Hall, 78, a retired minister and longtime neighbor of Zimmerman in Virginia.
“He asked me to write him a letter of recommendation, and I was glad to. He was such a wonderful kid. I thought he’d be the kind of officer I wanted protecting me.
“I had no doubt about his abilities to look out for citizens. I would have an easier time respecting him than I have with some officers now.”
Hall said he didn’t know when Zimmerman’s detective dreams were dashed.
But that didn’t stop Zimmerman from playing the part.
He had a license to carry a concealed weapon, and he started a neighborhood watch last September in his gated community in Sanford, Fla.
Well before that, he was calling cops for just the slightest, racially tinged suspicions.
As the watch volunteer at the 260-unit Retreat at Twin Lakes, he became a paranoid pest — peppering 911 with at least 46 calls. They varied in urgency, but in the last year focused mostly on black men or boys.
That included a “suspicious” 7- to 9-year-old boy with a “skinny build” and short black hair.
In November 2006, he called to report a red Toyota pickup truck “driving real slow” around the neighborhood for five minutes.
In September 2009, he called about a “yellow speed bike” weaving in and out of traffic and doing “wheelies.”
A month later, Zimmerman was hot on the scent of an “aggressive white and brown pit bull.”
And last August, he reported a black man he believed was “involved in recent” burglaries.
The son of a white father and a Peruvian mother, Zimmerman was ambitious, friends said.
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Zimmerman has a LONG HISTORY of making 911 calls especially about "black kids"
Zimmerman moved to Florida in 2001, and he enrolled in Seminole State College in 2003, pursuing a vocational certificate to become an insurance agent.
Down South, he had his own brushes with the law. In 2005, he was arrested for assaulting a cop and resisting arrest. He avoided conviction by entering a pretrial-diversion program.
That same year, his ex-fiancée, Veronica Zuazo, filed a restraining order against him, claiming he had been near her home “just checking up” on her. When she demanded that he leave, he allegedly grew violent, pushing her, according to the Miami Herald.


The next day, he filed his own petition and claimed she wanted him to stay the night and grew violent when he refused. A judge ordered both to stay away from each other.
In 2008, he explained away his arrest on an enrollment application to a citizen’s law-enforcement academy program at the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office.
“I was in an altercation with an undercover officer that was taking part in an ATF sting for underage drinking in UCF [University of Central Florida],” Zimmerman wrote, according to documents obtained by The Post.
“He never told me he was an officer and assaulted me first.
“My father is a retired magistrate judge for the Supreme Court of Virginia and my mother was a deputy clerk of court for over 20 years,” he wrote. “I hold law-enforcement officers in the highest regard as I hope one day to become one.”
Zimmerman was accepted into the 14-week course, which offers civilians an inside look at the sheriff’s office, the courthouse and the jail. He never became a cop — he was a pencil pusher, according to the Orlando Sentinel.
Zimmerman re-enrolled at Seminole State in 2009 — still with the hopes of joining law enforcement — but was booted last week because of safety concerns for him, the Los Angeles Times said.
Zimmerman’s paranoia led directly to his Feb. 26 encounter with Trayvon Martin, 17.
Police said Zimmerman first spied Trayvon walking from a 7-Eleven at about 7:15 p.m. and called police to report him as suspicious. Although he was told by a 911 operator not to get involved, Zimmerman followed Trayvon.
They scuffled and Zimmerman shot him once in the chest with his licensed Kel-Tec 9mm semiautomatic handgun. Zimmerman says he acted in self-defense. A special prosecutor, the FBI and the US Department of Justice are investigating.
Zimmerman is also facing trouble from the militant New Black Panther Party, which yesterday offered a $10,000 reward for his “capture,” the Sentinel reported.
George Zimmerman has placed at least 46 calls to 911 in the last eight years. In the last year, his calls focused on blacks in his gated community:
April 22, 2011: Reports “black male, 7 to 9 years old with skinny build,” walking around the neighborhood.
Aug. 3, 2011: Calls in a black male he “believes is involved in
recent burglaries in the neighborhood.”
Aug. 6, 2011: Fingers two black teens he thinks “have been burglarizing homes in this area.”
Oct. 1, 2011: Reports two black males, approximately 20 to 30 years old, whom he does not recognize. He says he’s “concerned due to recent burglaries in the area.”
Feb. 2, 2012: Drops dime on a black male because it is “unknown what he is doing.”
Feb. 26: Calls about Trayvon Martin
Hey, we’ve had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there is a real suspicious guy.
Asked by the dispatcher what the suspect looks like, he says:
He looks black . . . Now he’s coming towards me. He’s got his hand in his waistband.
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[quote name='soulvengeance']Well, I wouldn't go as far as to compare Twilight and the Hunger Games. Twilight is complete garbage, pure and simple.[/QUOTE]
Love triangle, typical Hollywood happy ending, same demographic, I'd say they have quite a bit in common. It did have a bit more substance, but it relied on a lot of the same stuff Twilight does to appeal to it's target audience, which appears to be young girls.

edit- I'll stop derailing this thread any further. ;)
 
[quote name='Clak']Love triangle, typical Hollywood happy ending, same demographic, I'd say they have quite a bit in common. It did have a bit more substance, but it relied on a lot of the same stuff Twilight does to appeal to it's target audience, which appears to be young girls.[/QUOTE]

To a certain degree. I mean, Twilight was all about the love triangle, and while there was one in Hunger Games, it wasn't as front and center. Anywho, I think we're way off topic at this point.:)
 
both twilight and hunger game is GARFARKINGBAGE!!!!

Why is the Hunger Game even called Hunger ( what kinda farking title is that )

How come we would widely popularize a movie about kids battling to the death, but a movie with kids having sex gets controversial ( Larry Clarke )
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Oh I'd never leave my car in a million years to follow someone, but I have no problem watching someone walk down the street in front of my house while I am still in my car. It isn't my place to "police" my neighborhood. I've already said Zimmerman should have never even had the opportunity to fire on Martin, he should have listened to the dispatch officer from the get go.

I had to google the one drop rule, and don't really get how it applies to what I said. I don't know if Zimmerman is black if that is what you are meaning, just that he is Hispanic. You just mentioned that "looked black" could be code possibly Hispanic, and I just said the shooter was Hispanic, and that I didn't know if it mattered much whether he meant black or "possibly Hispanic". The dispatch wanted to know the race, and he gave his best guess.[/QUOTE]
I wasn't implying that Zimmerman was black, but that because his mother is Latino, people say that he's Hispanic(there's a difference btw). Hence, the one drop rule.

As for Zimmerman making the "looks black comment," there are lots of Latinos with dark complexions, which is a possible explanation, albeit a highly unlikely one.
 
[quote name='HaloSucks']both twilight and hunger game is GARFARKINGBAGE!!!!

Why is the Hunger Game even called Hunger ( what kinda farking title is that )

How come we would widely popularize a movie about kids battling to the death, but a movie with kids having sex gets controversial ( Larry Clarke )[/QUOTE]
Cause a movie about kids having sex would be really fucking weird and creepy.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']Cause a movie about kids having sex would be really fucking weird and creepy.[/QUOTE]

yes and a movie about kids out to kill each other is all so much better....:roll:

Fighting to the death...:booty:
 
Yeah I have to say, seeing a young girl brutally stabbing someone to death over and over again was a little unsettling. If that had been an R rated movie and actually showed details of some of the deaths, it probably would have caused a stir.
 
[quote name='dohdough']For example, a sociology professor might give extra credit for students that watch it and describe how concepts they learned in class are applied in the movies. I personally don't think it's a great way to engage students because there are plenty of other vapid movies to choose from that are free, but that's an argument for another thread.[/QUOTE]

I don't know the first thing about this series of books to be honest, so I can't speak to whether or not giving extra credit assignments based on this film is a good idea. But I can say that, without fail (and this is a phenomenon that is not going to improve over time due to the technological shift becoming permanent), students will immediately dismiss almost every effort they are offered if they can't immediately access it via their web browser or smart phone.

But the idea that people read a book, read phrases like "dark skin" and then become *upset* that the character is cast as black in the films - that's a great example of white privilege. That doesn't make those individuals klan-loving-the-south-will-rise-again racists, but it does reinforce the default of "whiteness" for most people - and how that perception is never really recognized by those who act on their white privilege daily (i.e., it's the same reason people cry about "BET," but lament that there's no "White Entertainment Television" - ignoring that television programs on EVERY OTHER NETWORK are dominated by whites).
 
[quote name='mykevermin']I don't know the first thing about this series of books to be honest, so I can't speak to whether or not giving extra credit assignments based on this film is a good idea. But I can say that, without fail (and this is a phenomenon that is not going to improve over time due to the technological shift becoming permanent), students will immediately dismiss almost every effort they are offered if they can't immediately access it via their web browser or smart phone.[/QUOTE]
I don't disagree at all. I find it problematic that it's considered extra credit and maybe you can shed some light on this, but in my experience in a few graduate/doctoral level courses, critiques are much more common?

But the idea that people read a book, read phrases like "dark skin" and then become *upset* that the character is cast as black in the films - that's a great example of white privilege. That doesn't make those individuals klan-loving-the-south-will-rise-again racists, but it does reinforce the default of "whiteness" for most people - and how that perception is never really recognized by those who act on their white privilege daily (i.e., it's the same reason people cry about "BET," but lament that there's no "White Entertainment Television" - ignoring that television programs on EVERY OTHER NETWORK are dominated by whites).
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This reminds me of that chain letter that makes its way around the internets every so often. But yeah, this is what I was alluding to when mentioning Airbender, 21, and Thor, although the Green Lantern was a very interesting case because a lot of people grew up with Jon Stewart as the Green Lantern.

The most recent similar controversy was when there was a campaign to get Donald Glover to play Spiderman. I remember that shitstorm well.
 
Re point #1: I dunno, certainly that's true at the graduate level - your work would never need to demonstrate superficial applications of concepts, because understanding the concepts is the least that is expected of you. You're right, a critique would be far more expected. But if this is a SOC101 course or somesuch, I wouldn't be too offended if the assignment was to find concepts in that film. Or any film, really. After all, aren't we critiquing Airbender for its whitewashing? ;)

(n.b. I had to look up John Stewart b/c the only dude I know by that name is on The Daily Show, though I know enough about comics to have successfully gleaned "oh, hey, I bet that's the black Green Lantern.")

I recall the Spiderman shitstorm. How did that end? There's a new film coming out. Did they successfully find a white dude to appease the people who complained?

As far as I can recall, the only Black actor who didn't get a bunch of shit was Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin in (Daredevil?). Which I could have simply misremembered - maybe there was a shitstorm. This is, that dude is (from a visual standpoint) a *PERFECT* Kingpin. That is, as long as we're talking about comic book adaptations.

I read this book a few years ago. It wasn't very good, but the points it makes about representations of whiteness in film is unmistakeable: http://books.google.com/books/about/Screen_saviors.html?id=6ZAPD2YdBXYC

I don't feel as if we've strayed too far off topic, since race and privilege are a huge part of this discussion. The presumption of Zimmerman's innocence, poor investigation, and poor follow up by the police in a scenario where someone's life was taken is an astonishing display of privilege. I'm a white dude, I never had to deal with that.
 
I know I get upset when source material is changed for movies, even the race of a character, but it's universal as well. If they made a Luke Cage movie and tried to cast a white guy I'd think that was wrong too because it would change who the character is, especially a character like Cage. But that's more of me being a fan boy who gets pissy when history is changed.

Luke Cage for those not familiar.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']Re point #1: I dunno, certainly that's true at the graduate level - your work would never need to demonstrate superficial applications of concepts, because understanding the concepts is the least that is expected of you. You're right, a critique would be far more expected. But if this is a SOC101 course or somesuch, I wouldn't be too offended if the assignment was to find concepts in that film. Or any film, really. After all, aren't we critiquing Airbender for its whitewashing? ;)[/QUOTE]
Hahaha...we are! My only beef is that I think it should just be a regular assignment rather than for extra credit.

(n.b. I had to look up John Stewart b/c the only dude I know by that name is on The Daily Show, though I know enough about comics to have successfully gleaned "oh, hey, I bet that's the black Green Lantern.")
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Whoops, missed the "h" in John, but yeah, it was refreshing to see that a black male was considered a mainstream-enough hero to have somewhat of a reaction. This goes on to address clak's point though.

I recall the Spiderman shitstorm. How did that end? There's a new film coming out. Did they successfully find a white dude to appease the people who complained?
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Yup, they got a nice white guy to play Peter Parker, which is too bad because with the right story(I know...it's a comic book movie for kids) Spiderman with a black Peter Parker could've been AWESOME.

As far as I can recall, the only Black actor who didn't get a bunch of shit was Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin in (Daredevil?). Which I could have simply misremembered - maybe there was a shitstorm. This is, that dude is (from a visual standpoint) a *PERFECT* Kingpin. That is, as long as we're talking about comic book adaptations.
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Hmmm...I don't remember because I'm pretty sure that was before I started arguing with people on the internet and the fact that I had a much more active social life...haha.

I read this book a few years ago. It wasn't very good, but the points it makes about representations of whiteness in film is unmistakeable: http://books.google.com/books/about/Screen_saviors.html?id=6ZAPD2YdBXYC
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I'll try to thumb through it tonight eventhough I'm sure I'm already familiar with the issues raised.

I don't feel as if we've strayed too far off topic, since race and privilege are a huge part of this discussion. The presumption of Zimmerman's innocence, poor investigation, and poor follow up by the police in a scenario where someone's life was taken is an astonishing display of privilege. I'm a white dude, I never had to deal with that.
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Yeah, there's a broader discussion to be had beyond to be had about the different things at play in this particular case.

[quote name='Clak']I know I get upset when source material is changed for movies, even the race of a character, but it's universal as well. If they made a Luke Cage movie and tried to cast a white guy I'd think that was wrong too because it would change who the character is, especially a character like Cage. But that's more of me being a fan boy who gets pissy when history is changed.[/QUOTE]
I think black superheroes are different due to the sheer lack of them in comics. I can be a bit of a fanboy too, but you don't strike me as someone that would get upset about a black Heimdall in Thor or Glover as Spiderman. I can see a colorblind argument against me to be made here, which I speak out against a lot, but considering the lack of black superheroes, it's not exactly the same.
 
Yeah, there were complaints on forums about casting a black actor as Kingpin in Daredevil back in the day.

Mellowed out once it came out as most seemed to like his performance. But there was some fanboy bitching on forums about them changing the race of the character.

Not as much as the Spider-man announcement, but it's not as major a character either.
 
But race can be such a personal thing, it'd change any character to a certain degree. i mean, Spider-Man is supposed to be some nerdy kid who deals with bullies and social awkwardness, change his race and that introduces new things he has to deal with too. Which I'm not entirely against in an experimental situation, I think there has actually been at least one spider-man variant that was of another race, and it's certainly interesting to see what can be done with the character like that. It's just that I know who these characters are, their history, the things they struggle with, changing a variable, especially one that can be as major as race can radically change the character. Now in some cases I don't think it would matter as much, Thor himself could be made black and, even though it'd seem a little strange given his norse origins, I don't think it would radially change the character. I think that's because Thor is an outsider anyway, he freaks people out even being white.

But it's like the Luke Cage example, change his race and that radically changes the character because his racial identity is so integral to the character. On the other hand, Blade's identity isn't as focused on him being black, if they'd made him white in the movies I don't think it would have radically changed the character cause he'd still be a badass vampire hunter with a sword.
 
Or the proper answer is to cast Ben Affleck as the protagonist in a superhero movie. That will take all the heat off of a rainbow cast of characters.

;)
 
[quote name='dohdough']It's a fact that Zimmerman was stalking Martin and attempted to confront him. Since Zimmer was the aggressor because of the stalking, it would put Martin on the defensive. When Martin bolted, and rightfully so, Zimmerman pursued him. These are all facts backed up by Zimmerman's 911 call.


Just because Zimmerman might not full-on hate black people, his bias against black people by thinking that they must be criminals, or else he wouldn't have attempted to stop Martin, is what leads people to that conclusion...unless you subscribe to the ridiculous notion that wearing a hoodie with the hood on in the rain qualifies as suspicious behavior.[/QUOTE]

The people waiting for "all the facts to come out" and waiting for the local police to handle are just obfuscating at this point. The other side of the story is dead (Zimmerman quite literally is just making up anything to get out of trouble) and the cops on the scene were ludicrously inept.
 
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Back to the story and pulled from another forum:

Trayvon was returning from a 7-Eleven. The police responded to the rear of 1231 Twin Trees. The final confrontation appears to have occurred on the strip of sidewalk along the backyards to the East of Twin Trees, between Twin Trees and Retreat View Circle, which matches news footage.

The neighborhood only has 3 streets, and Zimmerman "patrolled" it regularly, which calls into question his claim that he was attacked while out of his vehicle checking the street name. The final confrontation happened ~0.1 miles from the gated entrance, given what we know of Zimmerman's call to 911, and Trayvon's attempt to elude Zimmerman, it seems evident there was incredibly rapid escalation of the situation immediately after Zimmerman's 911 call ended, and that Zimmerman called 911 literally the moment Trayvon walked through the gate.

Trayvon's last walk:
http://g.co/maps/ztpas

Over in GBS we figured out the most likely final route of Trayvon for his return from the store, I figured it may be useful here in D&D.

Trayvon was returning from a 7-Eleven. The police responded to the rear of 1231 Twin Trees. The final confrontation appears to have occurred on the strip of sidewalk along the backyards to the East of Twin Trees, between Twin Trees and Retreat View Circle, which matches news footage.

The neighborhood only has 3 streets, and Zimmerman "patrolled" it regularly, which calls into question his claim that he was attacked while out of his vehicle checking the street name. The final confrontation happened ~0.1 miles from the gated entrance, given what we know of Zimmerman's call to 911, and Trayvon's attempt to elude Zimmerman, it seems evident there was incredibly rapid escalation of the situation immediately after Zimmerman's 911 call ended, and that Zimmerman called 911 literally the moment Trayvon walked through the gate.

Trayvon's last walk:
http://g.co/maps/ztpas

Streetview of the neighborhood gate, where Zimmerman's pursuit of Trayvon likely started:
http://g.co/maps/bnxb2
Click to expand...

http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...erid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=20#post401934365

This information was compiled by the various reports and 911 call. A simple search for 7-11 and the address given in the 911 call was used for the mostlikely route(the only one really) from 7-11 to the call. All sorts of fucked up here.

edit: More facepalming from me. A cop is suspended for "colorful" comments made by him. His wife joined in for extra points.

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012/03/nopd_officer_under_investigati.html
 
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[quote name='Clak']Yeah I have to say, seeing a young girl brutally stabbing someone to death over and over again was a little unsettling. If that had been an R rated movie and actually showed details of some of the deaths, it probably would have caused a stir.[/QUOTE]

Are the girls in Hunger Games that much younger then the ones in Sucker Punch?
 
Since we've gone to the topic of minority super heroes, how about a shout out to the now-passed Dwayne McDuffie - an awesome guy I once exchanged e-mails with and creator/co-creator of many, many black superheroes that no one cares about because they debuted in the 90's when every one and their grandmother was introducing new comics and it was a damn shame because the Milestone comics really did some awesome stories.

On one hand, I'm glad to know that the "Dakota Universe" was taken up by the standard DC universe instead of wasting away. On the other hand, it seems like no one still cares about them - though I did get a kick out of the cameo for Icon and Rocket on Young Justice last week. :D

Also - Racism in Comic Media - I think Static Shock is the only DCAU series not to be released as a full series on DVD (though I do have a DVD that has like two episodes on it). Granted, the series was aimed at a much, much more immature audience than the comic, but it was still a fun ride... aside from that horrible theme song.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']Are the girls in Hunger Games that much younger then the ones in Sucker Punch?[/QUOTE]
They were supposed to be 13-18 for the games I think, so between that.
 
[quote name='dohdough']Back to the story and pulled from another forum:



http://forums.somethingawful.com/sh...erid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=20#post401934365

This information was compiled by the various reports and 911 call. A simple search for 7-11 and the address given in the 911 call was used for the mostlikely route(the only one really) from 7-11 to the call. All sorts of fucked up here.

edit: More facepalming from me. A cop is suspended for "colorful" comments made by him. His wife joined in for extra points.

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2012/03/nopd_officer_under_investigati.html[/QUOTE]
:lol: I swear, if that isn't racist then what exactly is?
 
I think fans just really appreciate accurate depictions of their favorite characters, though I'm sure there are hints of racism behind the thoughts of some. Interesting note, there are no black/asian/hispanic people in the Lord of the Rings films, and that doesn't look like it will change with the Hobbit, either. A pretty bold move just to remain accurate to Tolkien's narrow geographical viewpoint.

This would make a fun thread, ya?

---

damn, that's some appalling stuff to come from a police officer's viewpoint. his Guile haircut was equally shocking, too.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']I think fans just really appreciate accurate depictions of their favorite characters, though I'm sure there are hints of racism behind the thoughts of some.[/QUOTE]

Accurate on whose account? Their own or the author?
 
Well, the creator, of course.

The backlash over the Hunger Games is clearly racist in tone, though, I agree. You had readers interpreting the author's words as they saw fit, and when the movie showed its chosen depictions, the racists in the audience gave themselves away.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']I think fans just really appreciate accurate depictions of their favorite characters, though I'm sure there are hints of racism behind the thoughts of some. Interesting note, there are no black/asian/hispanic people in the Lord of the Rings films, and that doesn't look like it will change with the Hobbit, either. A pretty bold move just to remain accurate to Tolkien's narrow geographical viewpoint.

This would make a fun thread, ya?[/quote]
If you know who Howard Zinn and Noam Choamsky are, you'll LOVE this:
http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/...platinum-series-extended-edition-dvd-part-one


damn, that's some appalling stuff to come from a police officer's viewpoint. his Guile haircut was equally shocking, too.
Click to expand...
I think the worst thing about it is that his sentiments aren't uncommon.
 
uh huh. uh huh... and slowly the other side of the story is getting released....

my favorite comment (echoing what I've been saying all along):

"I think we need to let the investigation come forward and let all the facts in this case come out," Sonner said on the "Today" show. "I think it's going to tell a different story than the way it's been related and portrayed in the media."


Good reads:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline...erge-facebook-twitter-accounts-180103647.html

The same week, Martin was suspended for 10 days from Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in North Miami-Dade. "He was not suspended for something dealing with violence or anything like that," his father said. "It wasn't a crime he committed, but he was in an unauthorized area [on school property]," declining to offer more details.
But a family spokesman told the Associated Press on Monday that Martin was suspended because marijuana residue was found in his book bag.


You know... honesty is the best policy. Why we gotta lie?




http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-shooter-told-cops-teenager-went-gun-030349812--abc-news.html

Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, said at a news conference today, "All I've got to say is they killed my son, and now they're trying to kill his reputation."

^ Which is unfortunate but they had to anticipate that at some point this information was going to surface...



Look... Trayvon's dead and that is a tragedy in itself but what makes me sick is how an incident like this spurs social disrest because hate mongerers just can't resist the temptation to excite those without enough self control to let all the facts surface and the entire story unfold.

I know dohdough, Trayvon is dead so he can't tell his story... that is true; but perhaps his parents can continue to talk half truths and use the 8 year old picture of him combined with the mental illustration of him buying skittles and ice tea and other smoke and mirror tactics to keep people from honestly asking themselves if Trayvon had any responsibility, regardless of how small, in his own death.
 
what relevance does being caught with a little green have with someone's character? if anything that paints him as even more of a typical teenager. maybe they'll find some porn history on his web browser at home? what a thug.
 
Where did his father get that information about his suspension from exactly?

And yes, I know it's completely irrelevant to this case.
 
[quote name='panzerfaust']what relevance does being caught with a little green have with someone's character? if anything that paints him as even more of a typical teenager. maybe they'll find some porn history on his web browser at home? what a thug.[/QUOTE]


Smoking weed doesn't make one a thug... but it's not good to lie either; I mean if Trayvon would allegedly swing at a bus driver:

As Dan Linehan, a blogger at Wagist.com, pointed out, correspondence with Martin on Twitter before he died alludes to an incident with a bus driver. "Yu ain't tell me you swung on a bus driver," Martin's cousin wrote to him on Feb. 21.

You don't think it would be remotely possible he'd swing at someone that was following him?


I mean the first few weeks after the shooting it was Trayvon Martin, skittle eater, ice tea drinker, baby face (maybe because the picture is 8 years old), old lady helper, volunteer was murdered in cold blood.

Now we're getting new information, which might not be relevant, but the fact that the family and supporters would maliciously lie to hide it is relevant.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']uh huh. uh huh... and slowly the other side of the story is getting released....

my favorite comment (echoing what I've been saying all along):

"I think we need to let the investigation come forward and let all the facts in this case come out," Sonner said on the "Today" show. "I think it's going to tell a different story than the way it's been related and portrayed in the media."[/QUOTE]
Look, you obtuse motherfucker. The local police stonewalled the investigation in the hopes of letting it die. They were done until the story started spreading in the media and then last week, they decide to release the tapes after the parents sued for them for it and then the department passed on the case to the DA because of the same pressure. The FACT that the 911 call doesn't jive with Zimmerman's account is pretty damning in itself and anyone with half a brain can see the inconsistencies between the two accounts.


Good reads:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline...erge-facebook-twitter-accounts-180103647.html

The same week, Martin was suspended for 10 days from Dr. Michael M. Krop Senior High School in North Miami-Dade. "He was not suspended for something dealing with violence or anything like that," his father said. "It wasn't a crime he committed, but he was in an unauthorized area [on school property]," declining to offer more details.
But a family spokesman told the Associated Press on Monday that Martin was suspended because marijuana residue was found in his book bag.


You know... honesty is the best policy. Why we gotta lie?




http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-shooter-told-cops-teenager-went-gun-030349812--abc-news.html

Martin's mother, Sybrina Fulton, said at a news conference today, "All I've got to say is they killed my son, and now they're trying to kill his reputation."

^ Which is unfortunate but they had to anticipate that at some point this information was going to surface...
Click to expand...
What the fuck does having an empty baggy with weed residue have to do with anything beyond dog-whistle racism? As if literally millions of people in this country aren't overt in their use of weed. Oh right, he's a young black male so he's obviously a hardcore gangsta trying to make a claim on some territory on ZImmerman's turf.

If someone was stalking me while walking back to my father's place, chased me down, and try to detain me, and saw that they were brandishing a weapon, I'd go for the fucking gun too so it wouldn't be used against me.

Look... Trayvon's dead and that is a tragedy in itself but what makes me sick is how an incident like this spurs social disrest because hate mongerers just can't resist the temptation to excite those without enough self control to let all the facts surface and the entire story unfold.
Click to expand...
Hate mongerers you say? You MUST be talking about the overtly racist sentiment that been making waves on the internet right? Yeah...I'm so glad that we have a goddamn white knight like you to speak out again rhetoric that implies that Martin somehow deserved what he got. Oh wai...

I know dohdough, Trayvon is dead so he can't tell his story... that is true; but perhaps his parents can continue to talk half truths and use the 8 year old picture of him combined with the mental illustration of him buying skittles and ice tea and other smoke and mirror tactics to keep people from honestly asking themselves if Trayvon had any responsibility, regardless of how small, in his own death.
Click to expand...
Half truths? YOU MEAN BUYING SKITTLES AND ICED TEA WAS A LIE??? Are you fucking serious? So you're saying that after being stalked by Zimmerman, trying to escape any possible danger and hostilily(and rightly so), and being chased down, Martin somehow loses the right to self defense? All of which is confirmed by Zimmerman's OWN ACCOUNT as recorded on the 911 call?

Even if he was the most gangsta-est gangsterer gangsta-ish gangsta, in what possible way does that make any of it Martin's fault if Martin clearly hadn't provoked Zimmerman in anyway beyond walking through the entrance of a wannabe cul de sac? Does Martin lose his legal right to be there as a guest because Zimmerman thought he looked suspicious, on drugs, and upto no good? Of which he was wrong ON ALL THREE COUNTS because he was legally allowed to be there and NO DRUGS OR ALCOHOL were found in or on him? This is still all based on Zimmerman's 911 call ALONE. And you STILL want to play blame the victim? What the fuck is wrong with you.
 
[quote name='GBAstar']Smoking weed doesn't make one a thug... but it's not good to lie either; I mean if Trayvon would allegedly swing at a bus driver:

As Dan Linehan, a blogger at Wagist.com, pointed out, correspondence with Martin on Twitter before he died alludes to an incident with a bus driver. "Yu ain't tell me you swung on a bus driver," Martin's cousin wrote to him on Feb. 21.

You don't think it would be remotely possible he'd swing at someone that was following him?


I mean the first few weeks after the shooting it was Trayvon Martin, skittle eater, ice tea drinker, baby face (maybe because the picture is 8 years old), old lady helper, volunteer was murdered in cold blood.

Now we're getting new information, which might not be relevant, but the fact that the family and supporters would maliciously lie to hide it is relevant.[/QUOTE]
You know what's even funnier? THAT'S THE WRONG TRAYVON MARTIN. You wanna know what's even funnier that that? THAT TRAYVON MARTIN WAS SLEUTHED OUT BY STORMFRONT and paraded around by Breitbart.com, Michele Malkin, and other racist and conservative blogs/sites until it was yanked by those same sites after THEY REALIZED IT WAS THE WRONG TRAYVON MARTIN.

I ask again, WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM MOTHERfuckER?
 
Look, you obtuse motherfucker. The local police stonewalled the investigation in the hopes of letting it die. They were done until the story started spreading in the media and then last week, they decide to release the tapes after the parents sued for them for it and then the department passed on the case to the DA because of the same pressure. The FACT that the 911 call doesn't jive with Zimmerman's account is pretty damning in itself and anyone with half a brain can see the inconsistencies between the two accounts.
Click to expand...

What about the eye witnesses that can confirm Zimmerman's account? Are you suggesting that Austin Brown is lying? Or perhaps he's racist... Wait that wouldn't make sense, isn't he black?



What the fuck does having an empty baggy with weed residue have to do with anything beyond dog-whistle racism? As if literally millions of people in this country aren't overt in their use of weed. Oh right, he's a young black male so he's obviously a hardcore gangsta trying to make a claim on some territory on ZImmerman's turf.
Click to expand...

Then why lie? Why paint a picture of Trayvon as if he is such an innocent little boy (funny how each picture that had been released prior to today was extremely dated) and continue to pump out feel good storied about him volunteering and helping out. What about all the storied about him never getting into any trouble (false) or not being one to be confrontational (but perhaps punched a bus driver?)


If someone was stalking me while walking back to my father's place, chased me down, and try to detain me, and saw that they were brandishing a weapon, I'd go for the fucking gun too so it wouldn't be used against me.
Click to expand...

Yeah that's fucking smart. Grab his gun...

What about all the stories about Trayvon being an outstanding athlete... how about run away?


Hate mongerers you say? You MUST be talking about the overtly racist sentiment that been making waves on the internet right? Yeah...I'm so glad that we have a goddamn white knight like you to speak out again rhetoric that implies that Martin somehow deserved what he got. Oh wai...
Click to expand...

I never said he deserved what he got.. I said it is time that people start thinking that perhaps the story, as originally reported isn't accurate at that Trayvon may possible have some responsibility in his own shooting.


Half truths? YOU MEAN BUYING SKITTLES AND ICED TEA WAS A LIE??? Are you fucking serious? So you're saying that after being stalked by Zimmerman, trying to escape any possible danger and hostilily(and rightly so), and being chased down, Martin somehow loses the right to self defense? All of which is confirmed by Zimmerman's OWN ACCOUNT as recorded on the 911 call?

Even if he was the most gangsta-est gangsterer gangsta-ish gangsta, in what possible way does that make any of it Martin's fault if Martin clearly hadn't provoked Zimmerman in anyway beyond walking through the entrance of a wannabe cul de sac? Does Martin lose his legal right to be there as a guest because Zimmerman thought he looked suspicious, on drugs, and upto no good? Of which he was wrong ON ALL THREE COUNTS because he was legally allowed to be there and NO DRUGS OR ALCOHOL were found in or on him? This is still all based on Zimmerman's 911 call ALONE. And you STILL want to play blame the victim? What the fuck is wrong with you.
Click to expand...


Half truths like (and I'll find quotes if you need me to) like Trayvon's family reporting he'd never been in trouble, and that changing to he was suspending for truancy, and that changing to his was suspended for being in an unauthorized area, and that changing to he was suspended for having a baggie with weed residue.



Just a few weeks ago you made it sound like there wasn't a chance in hell that Trayvon put his hands on Zimmerman, that a fight did NOT occur, that it was all Zimmerman.
 
trayvon-facebook.jpg



You notice anything different in these two pictures?
 
[quote name='GBAstar']Smoking weed doesn't make one a thug... but it's not good to lie either; I mean if Trayvon would allegedly swing at a bus driver:

As Dan Linehan, a blogger at Wagist.com, pointed out, correspondence with Martin on Twitter before he died alludes to an incident with a bus driver. "Yu ain't tell me you swung on a bus driver," Martin's cousin wrote to him on Feb. 21.

You don't think it would be remotely possible he'd swing at someone that was following him?


I mean the first few weeks after the shooting it was Trayvon Martin, skittle eater, ice tea drinker, baby face (maybe because the picture is 8 years old), old lady helper, volunteer was murdered in cold blood.

Now we're getting new information, which might not be relevant, but the fact that the family and supporters would maliciously lie to hide it is relevant.[/QUOTE]

Well, as you said, they told a half-truth. If they are ashamed of a childish incident involving their son and drugs, then so they are. It will come to surface, but the parents are naturally going to be the ones talking the least about it. Understanding who Martin was is important to the case, but I was simply taking issue in your selection of interest about Martin's character, because a mere 10 day suspension for having some resin in your backpack means, at the very most, that you are indeed a kid.

Now, swung at a bus driver? You should of used that one first.

--

On to more of a personal rant (and please just look at me as some random online commentator, I don't claim to be terribly well read), what I really don't like about this Zimmerman guy is how inept he seems at the hobby he's taken so seriously. Patrolling your community, gun in holster, like some righteous soldier and defender of the defenseless -- and you can't even scrap with an unarmed teenager without unsheathing the last resort?

Now hey, I certainly couldn't. A 17 year old is a grown man in terms of physical capability. But I'm not walking around the streets like a warrior of peace. How is it okay that he decides to undertake this job --- and as out of shape as he seems to be -- and can legally carry a death sentence but is undoubtedly completely untrained in handling a melee confrontation? A neighborhood watch should certainly be able to handle Martin without a passing thought to using a firearm, but Zimmerman? A man that untrained sounds absolutely terrifying, and this case has shown why.

Because maybe Martin did turn around and beat the shit out of a stalker, maybe he did. My problem though is why it is remotely possible to have a man as dangerous as Zimmerman patrolling the streets, gun in hand, when he's completely incapable (both intellectually and physically) and, as already proven, has horrible judgement.

I assumed he passed some gun training, enough for him to legally carry and live out his fantasy without having to put any sort of real training into mind and body. That's the convenient nature of firearms, I suppose.

We should go back to swords, really.
 
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