Blink Bundle Megathread | 12/09 - 12/16: Hidden Gems Bundle 3
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Unless devs are really good at advertising or have critically acclaimed indie games in their library, I don't see what other alternatives they'll have other than bundles if they want to profit decently. They'll need to make it to the front page on Steam if they want any major profit.. which isn't guaranteed to happen.
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Even the front page of Steam doesn't mean much anymore. The new releases list isn't the default tab anymore and the amount of games getting released has ramped up so much that even if it were games would get quickly bumped off. There's way more competition to get noticed on Steam now.
The thing is that indie developers complained about the difficulty of getting into Steam, but in those days when you did you got noticed. Now that the restrictions have drastically eased up, many more games are getting in and it's much harder to get noticed.
caseyblink
CAG Newbie
Our feedback discussion regarding this change has put together about 30 developers. A few of them are past participants, and the rest are developers of higher quality indie games. And the overwhelming response is they wouldn't touch the lower bundle market. And none of them have to this point. That goes for a few publishers now too. Except they have done the lower bundle market prior, but they see it as now going overboard. A couple brought up that bundles are going below covermount level, which is completely unacceptable. Higher quality indie games generally aren't that desperate. Hell, I know people that assumed Eldritch was going to bundle again in a cheaper bundle after and they're still waiting.
If the lower market of bundles was actually regularly churning out high quality bundles, then you might have something. But they're not. Quality has gone progressively downhill. More and more recent repeats and crossbundling. But since it's easier than ever to get on Steam they'll still have access to a lot of games. But the amount of devs with higher quality titles willing to bundle with them is obviously going down.
2 years ago things were different than they are now. It's not even comparable. There were some grumblings, but nothing too rampant. Eventually a race to the bottom has to have a breaking point where it's simply not worth it for many to participate.
asheskitty
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If you look closer the fat white men are riding atop working stiffs. The Grim Reaper is riding atop a black man. (I know, it's not immediately apparent.)
Okay but those are people who are obviously interested in the game to some degree that still haven't bought it. Even if it never gets bundled again, how do you change that perception?
caseyblink
CAG Newbie
Bundling is ultimately still a good idea. That's not really being argued. It's when the bundles go too far.
By front page I meant daily deal, flash deal, etc. Devs get more profits whenever they're featured deals.
caseyblink
CAG Newbie
It's going to take a while to convince some people. That's obvious. But the alternative is to join the race to the bottom. I'll take the first option. It might be a bit more work short term, but the second option doesn't have much long term viability.
BobbyTastic
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So what I'm getting from all this is is I missed out the golden era of cheap bundles with lots of good games?
asheskitty
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caseyblink
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I think Humble will still come through unless they've decided to make the daily a standard. But Humble is, and always will be, an anomaly.
CheapLikeAFox
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I do think bundles have gone too far. I mean at .20 cents a game, what's the point really? So I'm all for higher quality bundles. That said, most of the games I'm really interested in are the sort that are pretty popular right now (survival and zombie genre) so not likely to be bundled anytime soon. I just wish devs could be straight forward about their pricing strategies so it doesn't feel like a guessing game or like you have to second guess yourself every time you think about buying a game.
I remember once around Halloween I bought three indie games from Desura on their Halloween sale and a few days later two of them were in a Groupees bundle for cheap. The other one (Project Zomboid) was cheaper then than it's been since, so that was a win, but it's still silly.
Devs know that they are going to get a bulk of purchases from pre-orders/new release hype then people waiting for x price drop, etc. Don't know why they can't just say - Game will be full price for 3 months, 25% off in 3 months, 50% off in 6 months, 75% off in 9 months, etc. so the consumer can just decide when they want the game and at what price.
I remember once around Halloween I bought three indie games from Desura on their Halloween sale and a few days later two of them were in a Groupees bundle for cheap. The other one (Project Zomboid) was cheaper then than it's been since, so that was a win, but it's still silly.
Devs know that they are going to get a bulk of purchases from pre-orders/new release hype then people waiting for x price drop, etc. Don't know why they can't just say - Game will be full price for 3 months, 25% off in 3 months, 50% off in 6 months, 75% off in 9 months, etc. so the consumer can just decide when they want the game and at what price.
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L
lostnumberwar
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Didn't Indie Gala have that stress test that gave steam keys for all those Alien/Zombie Shooter games for a penny?
Rhetorical question. The answer is yes they did.
I feel that way too. I don't necessarily mind paying a bit more than bundle pricing for something I really want but I also don't want to do that and then have it turn around and be a few dollars with a bunch of other games next week. While I realistically don't expect developers to never bundle their games, it's gotten to the point where new releases and even Early Access stuff is getting bundled.
Another thing for me is not really being able to try before you buy in most cases or even if you can the sheer volume of games makes downloading, installing, playing etc a demo for them all a bit not feasible. Really part of the reason I buy so much in bundles too is because I'll maybe like 1 or 2 out of every 10 games. That being the case a very low price and high volume of games is low risk.
I've seen a couple of indie games do inline webpage demos with the Unity web plugin and I'm for something like that. I just don't want to be constantly downloading, installing and uninstalling a steady stream of games. That's a pain. And that's if they even bother to offer a demo which many don't.
caseyblink
CAG Newbie
Actually with some recent bundles 20 cents is becoming high end. And disturbingly that's not even what the devs are getting.
Because every situation is different. I've tried to stress this before in other conversations. Some developers actually need to bundle to even progress to getting to experience their first major Steam sale (which most don't even know when it is until it's practically started). Especially with small development teams. But it's also true for smaller publishers too with the industry today.
It's usually impossible for them to predict what their sales are going to be like in two weeks. So you can't expect them to give price guidelines for months. It's incredibly unrealistic. And this is even more true today with Steam getting rushed with publishers loading up their back catalogs on Steam, and Greenlight pounding the new releases. And then Steam deciding to not repeat the Spring Indie Sale, which was a pretty big blow for indie developers. Then you factor in how unpredictable the effectiveness of DIY sales are currently, and Steam deciding to take focus away from new releases. And all of that doesn't even bring in any personal issues for the developers that might occur that put them in a situation where they actually need more revenue.
caseyblink
CAG Newbie
I've actually dealt with the early access thing only a few times. But I've definitely talked to a lot of developers about it. Sometimes it is ill advised for a developer to bundle in early access. But there are times when it actually does make a bit of sense.
One of the reasons why you do early access is so you have people actually playing the game and helping to refine it into hopefully a great final product. But there are a lot of people out there that just don't like the idea of paying for a game early to beta test. Especially since there are already a few early access horror stories with abandoned games. So this overwhelming amount of early access titles has to divide what remains of the potential customer base. There are quite a few really good early access games that have hardly anyone playing them. And that not only affects them revenue wise, but also potentially the final product that they release.
So it's not always cut and dry whether a developer should bundle in early access. If they bundle really early on in the early access then I hope it's simply due to company/personal issues forcing them to consider it.
MrNinjaSquirrel
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Mayhem Intergalactic was just unlocked as the last bonus for the Embiggened Bundle.
Are you still up for splitting a bundle? I'm mainly interested in the Cold War game and Jagged Alliance Gold. I don't think I want any of the rest.
Edit: Split has been done thanks again Squirrel!
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MulderYuffie
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Sweet another bonus I do not own! 
caseyblink
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Nah. Go ahead and pump out dailies, just so long as they're still bundles you'd actually want to buy. Just don't start pumping out Humble style dailies.As long as you don't start pumping out Dailies, take as long you need
MulderYuffie
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Are we in for a new bundle next week......pls?
MrNinjaSquirrel
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Casey, here's a good game to try and get in a future bundle.
http://store.steampowered.com/app/25500/
http://store.steampowered.com/app/25500/
caseyblink
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Doubt we'd include it in future bundles. Sale price is low enough that it wouldn't really make sense in the new format. Unless it had cards added and we decided to do another trading card bundle.
BobbyTastic
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A bundler refusing to bundle a $3 game? Sounds like bs to me. Casey is obviously just making excuses for keeping his bundles free from boring non-American sports.Well poo, I guess I'll have to buy it.
I am buying it now. Fuhriously.
caseyblink
CAG Newbie
Unlikely. Launching the new format right before a major Steam sale is bad timing. And we've already said we aren't fans of the idea of running bundles during Steam sales. We might promote Steam flash/daily sales that stand out to us during, but that's about it. So we likely won't launch the new bundles until after the Steam sale is complete.
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caseyblink
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MulderYuffie
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It could be July though.......please let it be July my wallet it's not ready not now not yet....
Oh yeah, I know you don't have Gabe's home phone number or anything, but you are talking to developers and we've seen some leaked stuff pointing to what you're saying.
Quite honestly though, I can say I'm more interested in the next Blink Bundle than 90% of what happens on the Steam Sales.
caseyblink
CAG Newbie
There will always be leaks. To be honest I've never understood Valve's ultra secretive approach to these sales. They seem to give developers and publishers very little notice (which makes it hard on participants to coordinate a sales strategy in advance). I don't think it's a good idea to actively promote the sale is coming at X date, but I think they might go a bit overboard to keep it secret as well. I don't think either extreme is beneficial.
CheapLikeAFox
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I actually think set dates each year would be beneficial all around. That way devs could plan release dates around big sales and set their strategies all around. How screwed is a dev who unwittingly releases their game a few weeks before a big sale and then has people put off buying it right away because they are afraid it's going to be on sale soon.
caseyblink
CAG Newbie
And if there were set dates then maybe we still would've had a Spring Indie sale this year. It definitely would make things a lot easier for developers and publishers. Rather than having a 2 month stretch on their calendar showing "STEAM SALE ???". At least with the Winter Sale there is a very small window of possible dates.
I don't think it makes business sense to announce the dates of a large sale like that a month in advance. Would it make things easier on publishers? Possibly, but the majority of people that Steam cares about are already in that inner circle.
By announcing the Steam sale date to everyone else, they could potentially lose a lot of sales because of it. Granted at this point, most people are familiar that the Summer and Winter sales are happening, especially on CAG. However, we're savvier than most Steam users, and are always looking for deals. Most users likely don't remember an approaching sale until it pops up on the home page. I know this firsthand because I've just reminded at least a couple people of the impending sale recently. By announcing the sale ahead of time, everyone's aware of it, and now no one would be buying any games at full price. Sales would halt to a complete stand still the weeks leading up to a sale. It just doesn't make business sense for them to announce something like that ahead of time.
That being said, I'm rooting for you guys to be right.
By announcing the Steam sale date to everyone else, they could potentially lose a lot of sales because of it. Granted at this point, most people are familiar that the Summer and Winter sales are happening, especially on CAG. However, we're savvier than most Steam users, and are always looking for deals. Most users likely don't remember an approaching sale until it pops up on the home page. I know this firsthand because I've just reminded at least a couple people of the impending sale recently. By announcing the sale ahead of time, everyone's aware of it, and now no one would be buying any games at full price. Sales would halt to a complete stand still the weeks leading up to a sale. It just doesn't make business sense for them to announce something like that ahead of time.
That being said, I'm rooting for you guys to be right.
caseyblink
CAG Newbie
That's definitely the downside of set dates. This is why I noted that I don't think it's a good idea to promote the sale is coming. But taking fairly extreme steps to prevent leaks (this is one of the reasons why everyone in that inner circle are given such short notice) is also not a good idea. It doesn't have to be one extreme or another. If the sale date is leaked the majority of Steam users are not going to become aware of it (unless Steam announces it themselves). The people that will be aware are more along the lines of the deal hunters, and most of those people have a general idea of when anyway so it's unlikely to affect their regular spending habits on Steam. They might even increase their sales some, since if people know of a date they might be less likely to spend their extra cash on one of other online stores doing their summer sales early.
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The Steam Summer Sale usually isn't until early/mid July. It's a full month away. There was that 'leaked' image asking dev/pubs to submit their pricepoints by June whatever but I doubt they'd make the deadline immediately before the sale... probably to get the info in early.
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caseyblink
CAG Newbie
It's pretty well known now that Steam doesn't give a big heads up. And there's more than that. Coupons are expiring next week, winter globes popped back up and it's unlikely that Steam will have the Dota 2 tournament conflict with the sale, so I'd say mid-July is definitely out. Only two of the four sales have started in July, so there's not enough of a history to assume based on it.
An earlier steam sale would certainly be cool, and your reasoning seems sound. In any case, the sooner the better; I want a new kick ass Blink bundle.
caseyblink
CAG Newbie
bread's done