CAGcast #134: Pure Credibility

Also, not for nothin', but since when is CAG a NEWS breaking site? A bargain hunter site, yes. A community site, yes. But a news site? Creschente must have his head firmly planted up his own ass to not realize any of that.

Not even to mention that the rumor in question was on a user blog, as Cheapy stated.
 
[quote name='Wombat']there was a required update in Japan only it was mentioned on the Playstationblog[/quote]
That's what I said. It wasn't required for everybody to get LwP, but it was required for everybody in Japan to download, as it's setting up their own video store. It has no use at all for anybody outside of Japan.
 
[quote name='level1online']I kinda have to disagree with Wombat's statement "Internet petitions don't do jack."

A example I'd like to use is how Microsoft will include 16:10 monitor support in the upcoming Fall update. Here is a link to it: http://www.petitiononline.com/X3601610/petition.html [/quote]


Is Microsoft including 16:10 support because of that petition? If it's just coincidence, it doesn't count. If it is directly due to that Internet petition, then it's just one drop of victory in oceans of failure.

Ninety-nine percent of Internet petitions do not work.

[quote name='ajm1240']Also, not for nothin', but since when is CAG a NEWS breaking site? A bargain hunter site, yes. A community site, yes. But a news site? Creschente must have his head firmly planted up his own ass to not realize any of that.

Not even to mention that the rumor in question was on a user blog, as Cheapy stated.[/quote]

I agree. CAG may evolve into an IGN-esque website, but as things presently stand it's a deals website supported by its massive community. The fact that Kotaku posted a rumor from a user blog shows that Kotaku does not have high journalist standards. And if anyone should be upset, it's Kotaku's regular readers. I would not frequent a website that chose to post rumors from unreliable user blogs. It was irresponsible of Kotaku.
 
the show is so much better when you guys are going after other peoples throats as opposed to bitching at each other. good show guys. maybe seeing each other on camera helps release some tension? if so you guys should continue to use it.

Cheapy please tell me you screen captured images of wombat with his teddy bear.
 
Cheapy, I don't know if you really changed your mind.

You still have the same problem, blogs who pretend to be "serious" news outlets posting fabricated and ridiculous rumors....
 
Cheapy, the normal, linear progression of songs in Rock Band 2 does still exist. It's in "Play Challenge" which is listed right under "Continue Tour". It's still there if you want to play through it the old fashioned way. It's the same type of setlist structure that you like from the last game. Just keep doing the "Marathon" ones such as the "Apprentice Marathon" and the "Warmup Marathon" and that should get you most if not all the songs.

If there are any songs that you don't get from those then there will be other setlists besides the marathon ones to get those songs.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
[quote name='Chase']Is Microsoft including 16:10 support because of that petition?


[/quote]

I don't know, i was hoping maybe Wombat or CheapyD could answer that in the next podcast. I missed the entire e3 press conference, so i really don't know what Microsoft has said.
 
[quote name='steverl22']Cheapy --> grown a pair and stop backing down to these bs blogs.

Shipwreck ---> good job on selling out wombat and the cagcast....loser!

Wombat ---> good contest, these gaming blogs are becoming a bigger joke day by day[/QUOTE]

Thanks! I didn't really sell out Wombat though. He just doesn't like it when I don't agree with him. Here's my exact post from the Kotaku thread:

[quote name='shipwreck on Kotaku']Hmm... not exactly sure where I stand on this one. While I was thinking "no, no, Wombat don't", when he was talking about this on the CAGcast, it's certainly been an interesting read all day.

And that's one of the reasons all these rumors get reported, to start conversations. They are always among the top viewed and commented on articles and this one is no different in that regards.

*Not sure how credible my thoughts are on this situation.* (Just kidding, I understand Crecente's initial reaction)[/quote]

And I still pretty much feel that way. I guess I have a similar view to Mrs. Cheapy in that it doesn't really bother me what other sites do with rumors.

And by saying that I understood Crecente's reaction, I meant that I could understand how he could react that way initially. If you read through his comments in that thread, you can see him getting less and less pissed and more reasonable about the whole situation. I'd be surprised if he would have worded his update that way a half hour later. I was actually thinking that he would change the wording later, but oh well, it's his site.

And at the very least it caused a lot of press for CAG.

C'mon, the whole thing was just humorous.

Oh, and if you're hiring Kotaku...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Great Podcast. I don't want to sound like a dick cheapy, but i think the reason why Peter Molyneux is proud of Media Molecule cause alot of em are ex-Lion head guys.

-K
 
Great podcast from a new listener. Just started listening last week (not in relation to the rumor blog stuff), but I'm a long time CAG member and heard good stuff about this on the Player One podcast. :)
 
A great show once again guys. Even though you touched on all the news, new releases, and a little of your personal lives as expected, it really bothered me that the first half hour of the show was about rumors on gaming news sites. I realize how pissed you guys were about it but like Cheapy's wife said, it's really none of your business.

Even though you were mainly talking about the contest, 30 minutes is kind of long for such a conversation. By the way, I don't mean to come off as an asshole but I feel it had to be said.

As for the Brian Crecente ordeal, I'm sure he has no hard feelings for CAG and Cheapy.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Wow, this is by far the worst CAGcast I have heard. The part about douping the internet was good, but going on and on about it was very lackluster and boring. It seemed like Cheapy had a hard time recovering from losing his pal over at that website. Also, this is the second podcast in a row that they have not read comments about the previouse podcast, whats up with that?

Also, I understand the frustration about news organizations reporting on rumors and speculations without verifying sources. A very good example of this is when 9/11 was going down, multiple news organizations where reporting car bombs going off in other cities across the nation. Another great example of this is the prank Captain Janks (or is it Jenks?) pulled in Las Vegas reporting that Artie Lange passed away in his hotel room. Bottom line, these organizations do not care to check sources, they just want the views or the ratings. Another great screw up was Dan Rather reporting about George W's record in the armed forces during the '04 elections. Out of all of those, only the Dan Rather one was the one pointed out.
 
You know, I've seen CAG around before, but I'm a new member as of today, and I just wanted you guys to know that this particular podcast has set the gears in motion for me wanting to be a member of this community.

You guys seem truly earnest and practical [and passionate?] about whatever it is you're doing here, and I think that's a really good thing. This CheapyD guy might sound a lot like Barney the dinosaur, but he's got merit.

So, um, way to go guys. I'll be tuning in until further notice. Which there probably won't be. Unless you guys put out a fake rumor that they're putting the Beatles in Rock Band. That's just cruel.

EDIT: I did believe that post on Kotaku for about 6 minutes, so congratulations to the initiator [I forgot the name] for making up a rumor in less time than it took the average person to figure out what it was. o_O
 
Another great show guys. After reading some posts regarding the Xbox Pure rumor I felt like most bloggers were taking this with a grain of salt rather than treating it as if it may be possible. My feeling is that if they are working towards a quota of posts and required so many views then they gotta do what they gotta do. I agree with others that Crecente was out of line with his swipe at CAG and hopefully he'll get over it.
 
Samba de Amigo for the Wii is played with the Wiimote and nunchuck, or optionally with two wiimotes. I assume the "maracas" offered by Best Buy are just white plastic attachments, but I don't know for sure.
 
I usually don't take the time to go off this heavy, but the backlash CAG has been receiving from the Blog Rumor Contest has me a little steamed. I apologize that I will be re-treading some firmly established ground here before going in-depth, but there is a foundation that needs to be firmly established:

First -- The "contest" was public. Whether or not it was decided in advance or impromptu on the show makes absolutely no difference in assigning "the blame" for whatever resulted. CheapyD and Wombat went on the record with this contest on one of the most highly listened-to video game podcasts in existence.

--Why this is important--

As a quick aside, this is important because even this level of plausible denial takes some of the edge against the act of disseminating misinformation. Public foreknowledge is the only reason why, even though the internet becomes unreadable on the first of April every year, the act is begrudgingly tolerated and not seen as bordering on the criminal.

But more important is that Kotaku, Engadget, Joystiq, and all those other "news sites" are dependent on having important news brought to them by the masses, many of whom heavily overlap with other sites. The inability of their methodology to provide them with the information that this contest was in place illuminates one of the staggering flaws in their strategy. Despite a goodly number of their sites' users were aware of the contest, no one cared to warn them it was coming, and they did not even garner a glimpse of forewarning necessary to place any breaking but dubious news stories from cheapassgamer with additional grains of salt for the immediate future.

One of the basic tenets of ANY industry is to be aware of what your competitors in the industry are doing. In any given week, someone from Target is going over the ads from Shopko. Editors at Time are reading Newsweek. Content directors at NBC are watching tapes and going over the Nielsen numbers of the top shows on Fox. It was mentioned on the CAGcast that Joystiq did not run the Xbox Pure rumor, possibly because people at Joystiq listen to the CAGcast. Congratulations to them for playing the game the way it should be played.

SECOND: The rumor was user-generated, in the forums.

--Why This is Important--

Kotaku took a swing at CAG's "credibility." They could have chosen to address CAG's or Cheapy's character, good standing, operations in good faith, or any number of moral hairs to split. And yet, credibility was their main volley. To extend the credibility of the whole of CheapAssGamer, or even just Cheapy himself, to any given forum poster's rumor and to BANK on that "Credibility" as adding weight or value to that rumor is as if to claim "we believe your posters are smarter, more connected, and more forthright than our posters (and those of other sites)." There's even a grain of truth to it, since the high standards CAG users have set for themselves are what kept Cheapy's (and their own) fears of the forums running amok with rumor spam from coming to pass. And yet, while other sites recognizing and extending to us this identity is a fine compliment, come on fellas -- that's no way to run a business.

And why in particular? Because CheapAssGamer, like EVERY OTHER SITE WITH A FORUM ON EARTH, contains nuggets (similarly worded in some fashion) like these, from the Terms of Use:
"The Site does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity or quality of any Content. You acknowledge that the Content cannot replace or substitute for the services of trained professionals in any field, including but not limited to, financial, medical, or legal matters. You further acknowledge that by accessing the Site, you may be exposed to Content that is offensive, indecent or objectionable. Under no circumstances will the Site or the Management be liable for Content, including but not limited to for any errors or omissions in Content or for loss or damage incurred as a result of the use of Content."

"You acknowledge that all content posted on the Site is the sole responsibility of the person posting such Content. This means that you, and not the Site, are entirely responsible for all Content that you post, email, transmit or otherwise make available via the Site. The Management does not control the Content posted by others and does not guarantee its accuracy, integrity or quality. You understand that by accessing the Site, you may be exposed to content that is offensive, indecent or objectionable."

The website is well within its rights to moderate content and punish or ban users for posting information that goes against terms of service, but with a public forum, the hosting website clearly has to (and does) distinguish its own beliefs, practices, opinions, and reporting from that of its users.

To run a story, even though marked as a rumor, on the hearsay of an anonymous forum poster is an invitation to error. The big boys of the "Real news" sites have emphasized for years the need to have a second, corroborating source for any rumor before running with it. It is a safety mechanism most internet sites choose to disregard for fear of losing the microsecond lead time with a scoop on the net. General policy is to shoot first and ask questions later, and this is what they get. If credible news is what they are after, then relying on such sources for information highlights the fundamental inadequacies of their information channels.

--Conclusion--

With no disregard to Shima, CheapyD has a very valid point in being annoyed with gamer blogs and "news sites" running with clearly B.S. rumors as their lead stories. And he is right to do so. Public opinion shapes policy, and sometimes the truth cannot withstand against the things people believe to be the truth. Political parties know this already, which is why they readily repeat rumors, and even will acknowledge them as such, knowing that the seeds of the idea, however erroneous, still take root. These bits of misinformation can unintentionally shape or guide a consumer's attitudes and their spending patterns, such as in causing buyers to hold off on buying a console because of a rumored price drop. For real world examples of the havoc rumors can cause, look to Nashville, Tennessee and their dry gas stations.

Brian Crecente and others who are angry with CAG need to come clean and admit that the REAL reason that they are annoyed with Cheapy and Wombat is because getting a blatantly unfounded rumor to the front page of their video game "news sites" was shooting fish in a fucking barrel, and CheapyD and Wombat knew it. They knew it would work, and that's why Cheapy hesitated in the first place. Because it was Too. Damn. Easy. It wasn't like suggesting that users hack the sites to make them look silly, which would have been both illegal and non-constructive, but it was merely exploiting the very nature of the beast that was already causing it to look silly, which was Cheapy's whole point to begin with.

So suck it up, Brian. Cheapy did you a favor. If you want to bank your following and page-views on rumors while keeping a modicum of respect, you are going to have to look at sites like macrumors.com that "do it for a living," and see how they rake over EVERY story from EVERY source, giving it the "sniff test" and considering the source and the history or success rate of the source before giving it even a page 2 slot, much less front page importance. You were exposed. Learn from it and make yourself better.
 
CAG's creditability went down the drain when someone in there community posted a made up Rumor?....and Kotaku and all the other so called "news" site's creditability isn't for posting "news" without checking the source or doing further research into it? :???:

These are the same kind of people who would think the sky is falling if you told them.


P.S. Cheapy you need to give that sweater away as a CAG giveaway since it doesn't fit, or would that be to mean?
 
i feel like giving Cheapy and Wombat a hug after this show. a very gaygamer-type hug.
 
Cheapy, have you actually contacted Crecente and talked about this? I'm sure it's just an internet dick waving match and he'll be cool enough to put it past him if you would just be the bigger man and offer the peace pipe.
 
If you guys read my posts from previous shows I'm normally a big fan of the show and agree with you 100% on the blog contest, but man was Wombat's self-congratulatory tone ever off-putting. It wasn't that funny, especially after literally, the 200th post on Kotaku telling Crecente he was wrong. I'm glad most blogs removed the story and moved on.

Do I think this needed to happen? Yes. Am I glad this happened? You bet. Was this a Cirque Du Soleil end-all and be-all spectacle some people made it out to be? Not even close. I do appreciate that both Cheapy and Wombat did acknowledge that in the grand scheme of things, all this nonsense really doesn't matter.
 
I think they both deserve a standing ovation for putting the spotlight on what seems to be the biggest problem in game journalism today. Shawn Elliot, formerly of 1up.com and GFW Magazine, put it best when he described himself and the rest of the business as "professional enthusiasts," rather than "game journalists." What they all do, for the most part, is want the best of both worlds, which is a systemic problem in the whole of the blogosphere. They want the respect and cache' of real journalists, without wanting to do the work of a real journalist. A press pass and a soap box does not make one a journalist, and these bloggers need to learn that. It makes me very sad to see, and I'm glad that the CAGCast did their part in solving the problem. I don't always agree with Cheapy and Wombat, but ya made me proud today!
 
Re: Rumor Postings.

Wombat might be familiar with this. In the comics industry there's a popular rumor column called Lying In The Gutters. All the entries are rumors, no real news. The writer's system is to tag each entry with traffic light color.

The traffic lights are an indication (and only that) of how reliable I believe the story to be, based on source, context and gut feel. Red lets you know I think this rumour is bunkum, but it is still one being spread about. Amber indicates I think there is a heavy bias involved here, or it just seems a little dodgy. And Green as far as I can tell (as far as I can ever tell) is the real deal, junior.

I think that's a system that all blogs should follow. Post the rumor, but give an indication about how your site feels about it. I used to work at a company LITG covered. Sometimes we'd laugh at how off base he was. Other times he knew more about our company then most of the employees.
 
Re: Rumor Validation.

Got an interesting story myself concerning rumor validation. Besides yours, another podcast I listen to is the Giant Bombcast. In a recent show, they discussed the rumor that the writer of the story for Mortal Kombat Versus DC Universe was a hidden characterin the game. He would have all the moves of Johnny Cage. Jimmy Palmiotti is famous writer and inker in comic circles and since the designers of MK often put themselves in games, this wasn't out of the realm of possibilities.

Without any prior contact, I took two minutes to search his name on Facebook and sent a message asking about the rumor. Within one day I got an answer. I took the quote and wrote it up as a story on a different website I write for. Two minutes of research to get the real answer. That's all it took.
 
Re: Star Wars The Force Unleashed.

Right on, Cheapy. I had a blast playing the game. Sometimes gaming critics get so caught up in pointing out the minor flaws of a game that they forget how much fun it is to play it. Played through it once and it's one of those rare games I want to play again on a higher difficulty setting. I remember the first GTA3 was the same way. It didn't get great initial review scores because the game was kind of buggy. But when it blew up as a monster hit, story after story appeared about how great the game was.

P.S. - Picked it up at Toys R Us since they gave a $20 gift card with it. So I consider that I got the game for $40. Well worth it. And I knew about that deal thanks to CAG.
 
best part of the show was toward the end when cheapy said only hill billies buy the xbox arcade, i cant stand red necks and that was hilarious when cheapy made fun of them. that should be a new segment if something stupid happens in the game world cheapy should talk about it in that voice.
 
[quote name='sublime90']best part of the show was toward the end when cheapy said only hill billies buy the xbox arcade, i cant stand red necks and that was hilarious when cheapy made fun of them. that should be a new segment if something stupid happens in the game world cheapy should talk about it in that voice.[/QUOTE]

Wow, man. You certainly type like a Redneck. What's with the hate?
 
Hey Cheapy, I think your original opinion was correct. These blogs portray themselves as legitimate news sites they should have integrity to check their sources. Maybe as a website owner you wouldn't care what other websites do but as a video game consumer you care that these blogs are making an effort to post accurate information.

I am not so sure that they are just looking for page views anyway they can.
 
I'm going to be honest, I've neglected the CAGcast for about 20 shows, but this Kotaku business got me listening again, thanks guys!
 
This latest show hasn't shown up as a post on the UK region frontpage of cheapassgamer. The extra couple of clicks to find it were tiring.
 
[quote name='swerv']This latest show hasn't shown up as a post on the UK region frontpage of cheapassgamer. The extra couple of clicks to find it were tiring.[/quote]

Spoken like a true gamer.
 
I love the CagCast, but my God, over half an hour on the kotaku subject? That's about fifteen minutes too long, if you ask me. I understand it was a big story, but to take up a good chunk of the cast is a bit much, in my opinion.
 
Stupid Oceanside... it's the wrong one, guys.

I'm in Oceanside, California... we gots no Nathan's.
 
Pretty entertaining show. I only have one real comment. I agree with your wife, Cheapy. It's Kotaku's responsibility to take ownership of what they posted, and do their homework on what the source is. A user blog on CAG is not the same as CAG. And frankly, if they're not going to trust CAG for rumors in the future because CAG's "credibility" is so tarnished, then when you post something legitimate on the front page (as you've done in the past), well then maybe they'll just miss out. That's THEIR decision.

Looking forward to the next show!
/tk
 
Hey Cheapy and Wombat. The Giantbombcast talked about Wombat's fake rumor contest on their show. They answered one of the listener's e-mail.
 
I've been a CAG for many years, although I hardly ever post. (Am a religious CAGcast listener since episode 1 however.) And while I always knew that there was a CAG community with people who bought and traded games with one another, I have never been a part of that.
I posted in the contest thread about which games I would buy during Gamestop's B2G1F sale, in hopes of winning a gift card. I thought nothing more of it.
The next day I checked my Gmail account and to my suprise, a CAG had replied to my post directly to me! He told me about how he had found Chrome Hounds at Sears for $2.97 and that I should check that deal out at my local Sears instead of wasting my free game at the Gamestop sale on Chrome Hounds. (I could get a more expensive game for free) He went on to tell me his opinions on the game and whether I should pick it up at all etc.
The point of all this, is that I just wanna say that I had no idea that the CAG community was so openly helpful and friendly to its members. I am not a forum regular by any means, so for me to make a fluke post, and to get such an out-of-the-blue, courteous and helpful response, just blew me away. It's amazing to me that in this day and age, some people are still out to help their fellow man. Cheap Ass Gamer truly is the best place to find cheap games, and CAG "DrumsVocalsKeys" made that clear to me. Keep up the great work everyone and thanks again for the tip!
 
[quote name='Salmonday']With no disregard to Shima, CheapyD has a very valid point in being annoyed with gamer blogs and "news sites" running with clearly B.S. rumors as their lead stories. And he is right to do so. Public opinion shapes policy, and sometimes the truth cannot withstand against the things people believe to be the truth. Political parties know this already, which is why they readily repeat rumors, and even will acknowledge them as such, knowing that the seeds of the idea, however erroneous, still take root. These bits of misinformation can unintentionally shape or guide a consumer's attitudes and their spending patterns, such as in causing buyers to hold off on buying a console because of a rumored price drop. For real world examples of the havoc rumors can cause, look to Nashville, Tennessee and their dry gas stations.

Brian Crecente and others who are angry with CAG need to come clean and admit that the REAL reason that they are annoyed with Cheapy and Wombat is because getting a blatantly unfounded rumor to the front page of their video game "news sites" was shooting fish in a fucking barrel, and CheapyD and Wombat knew it. They knew it would work, and that's why Cheapy hesitated in the first place. Because it was Too. Damn. Easy. It wasn't like suggesting that users hack the sites to make them look silly, which would have been both illegal and non-constructive, but it was merely exploiting the very nature of the beast that was already causing it to look silly, which was Cheapy's whole point to begin with.

So suck it up, Brian. Cheapy did you a favor. If you want to bank your following and page-views on rumors while keeping a modicum of respect, you are going to have to look at sites like macrumors.com that "do it for a living," and see how they rake over EVERY story from EVERY source, giving it the "sniff test" and considering the source and the history or success rate of the source before giving it even a page 2 slot, much less front page importance. You were exposed. Learn from it and make yourself better.[/quote]

QFT.

As for the Xbox 360 Arcade, it allows people to buy the console incrementally. Lets say a kid wants a 360. His parents might be amenable to something that's $200 + games and not $300. He can later buy the accessories he wants after the parents forget about the initial cost of the console. Same goes for an adult who's on a monthly budget. It might also get first time console buyers to give the console a shot because they can get an entry-level system and addon as they feel comfortable. Of course it's probably more cost effective to go with the Pro system off the bat, but having a low-level model offers flexibility.
 
Cheapy, if you want a more linear progression in RB2 in terms of songs, do the challenge mode. The marathons go through all the songs on the disc in order of difficulty. You can also save and quit anytime and continue later. Plus, people can jump in to help you out in case you want to play with others or need help passing a tough song.
 
bread's done
Back
Top