CAGcast #136: Pre-TGS BS, DSi, LBP, and Other Abbreviations

Your (CheapyD) subdued interest in TGS might be because you are personally interested mostly in Western style games. I think E3 is bigger for you in this regard.

Wombat is right about the used games and movies scenario in all his points, from the aftermarket situation of DVDs to the impossibility of $10 AAA video games. Most DS games cost $30 and I still buy mostly used. If video game makers COULD sell twice as many or more at half the cost, then their market research wouldve already told them that, and someone wouldve tried it.

The way video game sales work for most games, the vast majority of your lifetime game sales happen in the first month, in some cases in the first 2 weeks from the launch of a title. This is why they have to be full priced.

I'm going to be buying pretty much all of the Wii GC remakes, since the motion control/pointing is going to make those games much better. I didnt play any of the Pikmins or Metroid Primes because I was not satisfied with the control scheme.
 
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Nice discussion about LBP. I think Wombat is right about LBP not being a casual type of game. Alot of the people I know who are excited about it are hardcore gamers. My sis thought the game is cute but she has no real interest with it even after I showed her some videos of those awesome levels made by other users. LBP is a wild card with its audience, imo.

Once again, great show. Btw, Cheapy, don't embarrass yourself in front of Major Nelson. ;)
 
I hate to say it Cheapy but I found this site through Kotaku and even though I didn't "click through" every time I saw a story sourcing your site, after seeing it come up a couple times I finally decided to check it out and join.
 
I don't know about paying the Wombat to work on the podcast. That type of thing is better done from love. However, if there was something else he could do like edit the show, marketing, or something not directly related to the show that would be cool.
 
Thanks Cheapy, I have now canceled my Amazon Little Big Planet pre-order. The more you talked about it the more I began to question just how long I would be playing this one. I know I won't be creating a bunch of levels and if the gameplay is really that incredibly simple then I can probably wait for a deal for this one.
 
LOLed at the story of the safe sex Flash ad for Wombat's company. Related to that, you should watch this 5-minute clip from Ricky Gervais's standup on the same subject:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTeB4KeeaQg


On LBP, I think it will certainly resonate with the casual audience--if Sony can get it in their hands. I know you both offered up your anecdotal evidence to the contrary with your wives, so I'll go ahead and offer mine: I cannot get my 9-year-old and 12-year-old daughters off the damn game. The minute I get home from work, they want to fire it up (which means they bust their asses to get homework done--that's never happened before). They get to play dress-up with their Sackboy, discover all kinds of new and bizarre levels that people have created, tinker with and decorate their own creations, and bomb through levels together cooperatively.

As a single player game, I'm pretty confident it's going to be excellent. Even though the mechanics are simple, the ways people are extending those into other elements--like music creation and clever puzzles, like the Heist one you mentioned--have amazing potential to make it more interesting than simply "jumping and grabbing." Remember that the final game will have 20 times the developer-created levels that this beta has, not to mention 100 times the number of users creating content--and rating it so the cream rises to the top. Have faith, brethren.

Oh, and I'd be a total ass if I didn't say--enjoyed the show, as always.
 
I wasn't impressed when I saw gameplay videos of LBP. The control aren't tight and whoever was playing the Mario 1-1 on the video has trouble controlling sackboy.
 
I think Wombat is right to question if LBP caters to the Wii crowd, but the Wii crowd, by all indications, picks it up once or twice and then never plays it again. So, if LBP does that, then it has catered to the Wii audience, except those people now have a hi-def player in their house.
 
This is the first time I've heard of feature-stripping used games.

For me it means that I'm not going to buy Gears of War II at any price, or any other game with this sort of bullshit.
 
Do you really not consider blogging and posting as work?
It's generating content for the site thus making it more interesting, is it not?

I'd imagine that for a full-time game journalist even playing games should be considered work, as it is necessary for formulating opinions.
That's especially true in case of the Shipwrecks since they have to play such horrible games like 'Hot Librarian Word Puzzle' and 'My Little Pony: Deathrace'
 
[quote name='dece']Do you really not consider blogging and posting as work?
It's generating content for the site thus making it more interesting, is it not?

I'd imagine that for a full-time game journalist even playing games should be considered work, as it is necessary for formulating opinions.
That's especially true in case of the Shipwrecks since they have to play such horrible games like 'Hot Librarian Word Puzzle' and 'My Little Pony: Deathrace'[/quote]

I don't think they actually play all of those titles, unless they are getting shipped to them by the publishers. I think mainly it's just trying to find info about them or maybe playing a demo from a kiosk; which is still a lot of work considering how much of the PC/DS/Wii game releases are just shovelware crap.

I have the IGN review app for my IPhone and I had to turn off everything but PS360 reviews because of all the crap for those 3 other platforms. I can't imagine how much time it takes to fully research them.
 
[quote name='CheapyD']It sounds like they are going to simplify the process and make it a one-step deal. So, you hit one button, the Wii copies the game off the SD card onto it's internal memory and the game launches.

http://www.nintendo.co.jp/n10/conference2008fall/presen/e/06.html[/quote]
Doesn't sound like the solution that everybody wants, but I'll have to wait until next year to see if it's useful or not.
---------------------------------------

I think the only thing you could have done more to be a great friend of the gays is to have sex with a gay man.

I agree with Wombat about the Game Store not looking like that much of an improvement, especially since I didn't see much of what I thought the marketplace needed. It needs a way to sort out the free stuff since it's almost not worth it to just go through the 400+ game list to see where it's all at. They also need to get rid of either the new arrivals or spotlight sections, which are pretty much the same thing and a redundant style of menu. Playing around with the flash demonstration of NXE which has nothing like that but a generic Games Marketplace tab that only shows the latest DLC.

The embargo for Fracture lifted last week, I believe, as evidenced by this review and metacritic.

I like how Cheapy's going to give away DSi's to CAGs that we won't be able to fully use since the DSi-exclusive stuff is region-locked. :lol:

I'm interested in the DSi, mostly because I've yet to buy a DS and the latest model is a good place to start, though the feeling that it's not coming out until late 2009 is probably what will make me go for a Lite instead.

Is there anything else that LBP is supposed to be besides the platformer that it was promised to be? I think the level design is what will create the unique gameplay experiences in the story mode, like the jump rope mini-level that is among the four developer levels that came with the beta. No structure? It seemed easy enough to be motivated to move from level to level in the story mode, though I'm betting having the full offering will make it easier in the full game. I do forsee Wombat starting off his thoughts on LBP in the future with "The problem with LittleBigPlanet is..." like he does with Warhawk.

It wasn't that hard to get the dice in the right order in the Heist level, as you just push them up against another die, get on top, grab the die you want to move, and pull it over the other die. It didn't take anywhere near five minutes to get that done, so maybe the group was full of stupid people that caused you to become a little slow, too, Cheapy. ;) I played that same level with a random group of others online and we couldn't get past the swinging parts before that part because the others kept falling into the fire and used up all of our lives.

Jack Tretton said that in EGM, which that interview was done at least a month or so before, when PS3's were hard to find during the Christmas frenzy. I remember that because I had only seen one PS3 in 2006 and it was at a TRU the day after Christmas.

I doubt there will be any TGS coverage from what I've seen of the amazing E3 coverage besides next week's podcast. Is there not going to be a live show again this week? Good show any though Wombat kept bringing up the lack of growth in listeners throughout the show.
 
Cheapy sometimes you have to walk away from the table with the Ace in your sleeve. I'm talking about telling Wombat you would hire shipwreck first. That is like telling your current girlfriend you won't marry her, but if her friend was available you would consider proposing to her. You can think those thoughts, but never let them escape from your mouth. Just because it is true doesn't mean it needs to be said.
 
Dudes,
I got bored listening to the LBP section of the show.
It doesn't sound interesting to me AT ALL.
If Sony's depending on LBP's success to save the PS3 then I'm pretty sure it's abut to fail pretty bad.
 
Ok, so you guys are not thefirst ones to break the used games being discouraged story, but it bears discussion. Why is no one mentioning other venues? We are in a recession, driving $60 game sales is not going to work right now, no matter what you withhold from the final product. This is going to be a cheap gamer generation. I personally troll ebay for my games, and stay six months or more behind the releases. I play primarily PC titles, which are not sold used at ebay/gamestop anymore. I only recently got my hands on Assassin's Creed thanks to it being packaged FREE on ebay with Crysis : Warhead for a mere $25, when each game alone is priced at $30. What about how much Gamefly hurts new game sales? You can't tellme thattons of people are not skipping the retail release when they can have a game shipped to them and play the crap out of it for a month, and then ship it back for a new one, all for a low monthly fee LESS that that of a new $60 title! Are ebay and Gamefly next on the hit list? On a sidenote, you guys disappoint me. Have you only recently caught on to Nintendo's schtick? They have MASTERED the art of repackaging and reselling you the same thing! They know that the generation nagging their parents to buy games is not the same genereation that was spoon fed NES and SNES titles through their childhood, so now ever since the Gameboy Advance, we've seen little innovation and the insertion of the same old games selling for Wii points on the virtual console. Is anyone else sick of Mario Kart, and all off the lackluster repolished Mario junk? The next evolution are the Wiimakes. Yeah Nintendo, you are the most successful lazy company I can think of! Keep up the good shows guys!
 
[quote name='lilboo']^ It's called being respectful of others :)

Thanks, though! :roll:[/quote]
Your avatar's taco flavored kisses have convinced me to be more respectful.

Thanks, Picante Pants!
 
the last part about wombat being hired fulltime to write blogs?.....how much do bloggers get paid these days?? isnt blogging free?
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']I like how Cheapy's going to give away DSi's to CAGs that we won't be able to fully use since the DSi-exclusive stuff is region-locked. :lol:[/quote]

I wondered if anybody was going to mention this. Figures you'd beat me to it, FT. ;) On the same vein, though, what type of games are going to be DSi-exclusive? I'm guessing it's only the downloadable stuff and anything that wants to take advantage of the cameras--i.e., right now, nothing I can see that I'd be interested in.

Joystiq had an interesting blurb saying that the Nintendo points wouldn't be interchangeable between the Wii Shop Channel and the DSi Shop. That is, once you use some of the points in one or the other store, you have to use the rest that way. Seems silly to me, if all the money is going to the same place at the end of the day.

Wired also had an interesting article, entitled, "5 Reasons Not to Buy a DSi (But Why I Probably Will Anyway)." Basically, the article captures the essence of how Nintendo is apparently saying that this is going to be a 3rd console, not a replacement for the DS Lite. Also says something interesting, "The system also features on-board flash memory for use in storing titles procured from the newly revealed DSi Shop." When I was reading the news about the DSi, I always assumed that the SD card would be for game storage, but it seems (at least if this is true) that it's solely there for music and pictures. I think for a lot of current DS Lite owners, the DSi will not be a must-buy until they put something AWESOME out that's downloadable only (and given how little of what's on the Wii Shop Channel is AWESOME, I'd say it might take awhile).

/tk
 
[quote name='terpkristin'] "5 Reasons Not to Buy a DSi (But Why I Probably Will Anyway)

/tk[/quote]
That's dumb. The only set back is no GBA slot but come on the point of buying a DS is to play "DS" games. I don't see how EXTRA features is a set back. Sure if you already own a DS it may or may not seem like a big upgrade but if you had to choose between one or the other you may as well pick the one with extra stuff.
 
Cheapy and Wombat, I agree. LittleBigPlanet does not appear to be a game that can be played casually. Most often those interested in game or level creation are rather hardcore or dedicated. I suppose Sony hopes the cutesy characters will draw and inspire the casual crowd.
 
[quote name='Clarke']That's dumb. The only set back is no GBA slot but come on the point of buying a DS is to play "DS" games. I don't see how EXTRA features is a set back. Sure if you already own a DS it may or may not seem like a big upgrade but if you had to choose between one or the other you may as well pick the one with extra stuff.[/quote]
Yeah, but you fail to realize that GBA games is not the only thing the slot is used for. You talk about "extra stuff" and that is exactly what the GBA slot is used for.

By taking it out, you lose the ability to play games that use the GBA slot for extra stuff. Like... Guitar Hero DS, the Rumble Pack, or even the DS Paddle. There are are surprising amount of stuff that is compatible with those and other peripherals.

The only real solution is to have a Lite and DSi which is what I plan on doing.
 
Does playing a beta of a new game make you LESS likely to buy that game and/or less hyped for that game?

First impressions are important in life and games. I didn't get into the LBP beta, so I'm still sort of looking forward to the game. But I did get into the Socom beta and by playing the beta I decided that in wasn't the game for me. I think by playing a beta or even a demo, you kill that "new car smell" a new game has. I experienced the same thing when I played the Fracture demo. I was excited to buy the game but when I played through the demo I came to one conclusion.

If the demo is this shitty, the game must be horridness!!!

Your thoughts?

Cheapy...Wombat?
 
cheapy and wombat addressed this, i believe. i thought cheapy said that a demo can only kill your enthusiasm for a game.
 
Great show as always guys. Your comments regarding Little Big Planet supported the impressions and opinions I've gotten about the game. I haven't played it but the mechanics and gameplay just doesn't excite me. I don't want to create levels to have fun. Not that it couldn't be enjoyable, it just doesn't interest me.
 
I'm surprised at the unimpressed LBP beta discussision. Cheapy this was your game of the show like three times and every time you get exposed to LBP your enthusiasm gets lower and lower. The full version is obviously going to have more then the beta but I don't think there is going to be many drastic differences - just some more objects and the rest of the 50 single player levels.

I've had a lot of fun playing the beta and am super excited for the full game. I haven't really created much except for one level modified from a template - all my enjoyment has come from experiencing the great user created levels. Even if they all aren't great game levels, most of them have some great entertainment value whether its funny or clever or whatever. Of course the key for Sony is making sure that the best user levels are immediately accessable to everyone.

That LBP moment you had Cheapy was great, and disagree with Wombat for sayinig it's not the game. It *is* the game, at least in part, that's why you have so many buttons that are set to useless thinigs like smiling and waving. These are community functions that gives LBP its charm and enjoyment.
 
The whole gay thing is pretty pathetic and I agree with Wombat! The whole thing IS gay. I'm not gay myself, but I have a number of gay friends and they would never be offended by someone calling something gay. They think it's childish when people whine or cry about it, it's just as bad as saying something is retarded. Give me a break, it's a word, it's not personal and people should understand that. You guys didn't sound too bothered by it at all, which is good because honestly you shouldn't be. Keep up the amazing work you two. :D
 
you guys shouldnt care if a person stops listening because for stupid stuff, just move on and 1:30 min show is very nice 2 hours is too long for me
 
You can register for your 20 free downloadable Rock Band 2 songs right now at www.rockband.com/bonustracks. They will e-mail you the Xbox Live Marketplace code when the tracks are available to be downloaded.

BuffaloBills.jpg
 
Great show. It seems like publishers are trying the textbook publisher route of going after used games. Textbooks have lots of content online that can only be accessed with codes from a new textbook. These companies better be careful because unlike textbooks, their products are luxury items. As a consumer, I agree that it leaves me less desirable shopping choices.

Wombat is right about the DVD being after market products. Promotion for the Iron Man DVD for example, shouldn't cost nearly as much because all the buzz and interest was established with the theater release. Heck, they could reuse the same commercials (chances are they do).

I would think the closest video game equivalent would be the Greatest Hits, Platinum Hits and Player's Choice lines of hit games for the big three. Even then, game stores manage screw over publishers by selling the used game 5 dollars less than the budget price.

The post show ramble was pretty hilarious.
 
I don't understand why Wombat feels he is entitled to a piece of CAG. Wombat's approach is "If you pay me, I'll do more for the site". Which is not getting him anywhere, nor should it. Whereas Shipwreck has been a contributer and to my knowledge gets not a dime from Cheapy. Difference is, Ship acts like he loves being part of CAG and has carved out a section he can call his own. Cheapy has every right to feel like Shipwreck should be hired over Wombat because of that. Attitude and willingness to contribute for the sake of contributing often times gets rewarded. I bet there are bigger things in store for Ship because of his great attitude. Look what paying Wombat to contribute gets you...have you seen his UGO blog? Yipe! I'd pick Shipwreck any day of the week.

Wombat has blown a golden opportunity to impress CAG readers and make a bigger presence for himself on Cheapy's website instead opting for the MUCH less trafficked UGO site. If he would have invested his time and efforts into CAG without complaining so much or acting like Cheapy owes him because he shares billing on the podcast, I bet he would be further along in realizing his dream of working in the gaming field. Wombat is lucky to have hitched his wagon to Cheapy's Star, it's too bad he's not smart enough to see a great opportunity right in front of him.
 
Hey do you think ryan paton is working in microsoft because they think he can understand how to make games for japanese audiences since he was working for kojima on mgs4
 
[quote name='kiddvid']I don't understand why Wombat feels he is entitled to a piece of CAG. Wombat's approach is "If you pay me, I'll do more for the site". Which is not getting him anywhere, nor should it. Whereas Shipwreck has been a contributer and to my knowledge gets not a dime from Cheapy. Difference is, Ship acts like he loves being part of CAG and has carved out a section he can call his own. Cheapy has every right to feel like Shipwreck should be hired over Wombat because of that. Attitude and willingness to contribute for the sake of contributing often times gets rewarded. I bet there are bigger things in store for Ship because of his great attitude. Look what paying Wombat to contribute gets you...have you seen his UGO blog? Yipe! I'd pick Shipwreck any day of the week.

Wombat has blown a golden opportunity to impress CAG readers and make a bigger presence for himself on Cheapy's website instead opting for the MUCH less trafficked UGO site. If he would have invested his time and efforts into CAG without complaining so much or acting like Cheapy owes him because he shares billing on the podcast, I bet he would be further along in realizing his dream of working in the gaming field. Wombat is lucky to have hitched his wagon to Cheapy's Star, it's too bad he's not smart enough to see a great opportunity right in front of him.[/QUOTE]
agree with you
 
[quote name='kiddvid']I don't understand why Wombat feels he is entitled to a piece of CAG. Wombat's approach is "If you pay me, I'll do more for the site". Which is not getting him anywhere, nor should it. Whereas Shipwreck has been a contributer and to my knowledge gets not a dime from Cheapy. Difference is, Ship acts like he loves being part of CAG and has carved out a section he can call his own. Cheapy has every right to feel like Shipwreck should be hired over Wombat because of that. Attitude and willingness to contribute for the sake of contributing often times gets rewarded. I bet there are bigger things in store for Ship because of his great attitude. Look what paying Wombat to contribute gets you...have you seen his UGO blog? Yipe! I'd pick Shipwreck any day of the week.

Wombat has blown a golden opportunity to impress CAG readers and make a bigger presence for himself on Cheapy's website instead opting for the MUCH less trafficked UGO site. If he would have invested his time and efforts into CAG without complaining so much or acting like Cheapy owes him because he shares billing on the podcast, I bet he would be further along in realizing his dream of working in the gaming field. Wombat is lucky to have hitched his wagon to Cheapy's Star, it's too bad he's not smart enough to see a great opportunity right in front of him.[/QUOTE]

I'l be honest I don't appreciate taking something I said to Cheapy in a joking way, we did say that on the show, and claiming that I feel I have some sense of entitlement or that I don't feel grateful for what I have.
Do you think I accepted the UGO gig without talking to Cheapy? He was one of my biggest cheerleaders for me doing it and so far it has done nothing but help the site. UGO has reached out to Cheapy in numerous way, he even wrote a piece for them this year.

So please don't make assumptions about things that make me look like something I am not.
 
img_39861_gi.jpg
[quote name='Wombat']I'l be honest I don't appreciate taking something I said to Cheapy in a joking way, we did say that on the show, and claiming that I feel I have some sense of entitlement or that I don't feel grateful for what I have.
Do you think I accepted the UGO gig without talking to Cheapy? He was one of my biggest cheerleaders for me doing it and so far it has done nothing but help the site. UGO has reached out to Cheapy in numerous way, he even wrote a piece for them this year.

So please don't make assumptions about things that make me look like something I am not.[/QUOTE]
SORRY,didn't mean to hurt you but you always get the feeling that you will work with much more enthusiasm for money
 
I happen to like my job. Does that mean I should renounce my salary?

The difference between doing something for free and getting paid for it is in responsibility. If you don't get paid you are free to do whatever you want, whenever you want. As an employee you have some obligations and you get compensated for it.

Any sane person would choose being paid for doing something he enjoys over doing it for free. You cannot blame Wombat for doing the sensible thing. Unless Cheapy chooses to pay him he has no obligation to contribute to this site, and there is nothing wrong with that.
 
[quote name='ocelot24']Hey do you think ryan paton is working in microsoft because they think he can understand how to make games for japanese audiences since he was working for kojima on mgs4[/quote]
He was there to help them make MGS4 better for Western audiences.
 
[quote name='Wombat']I'l be honest I don't appreciate taking something I said to Cheapy in a joking way, we did say that on the show, and claiming that I feel I have some sense of entitlement or that I don't feel grateful for what I have.
Do you think I accepted the UGO gig without talking to Cheapy? He was one of my biggest cheerleaders for me doing it and so far it has done nothing but help the site. UGO has reached out to Cheapy in numerous way, he even wrote a piece for them this year.

So please don't make assumptions about things that make me look like something I am not.[/QUOTE]

I don't have to make assumptions, your attitude makes things all too clear. I have been listening to the show a long time. You can say you are joking all you want, but it is obvious in your words and attitude that you feel you should be ASKED more to be part of the site. You acted hurt when you didnt know what going on with CAG 2.0 and that Cheapy was paying someone (John) to work on the site and you were not, you act hurt when you say you dont have forum moderation access, you dont understand why Cheapy would pay Shipwreck over you and I'm saying its obvious.

Cheapy has asked you over and over to put more work into the outline even and your answer is if you are doing the audio part and sound clips and whatever else, that cheapy can do the outline. Same with Ship, when you two did the show together, if he did this, you would do that, to make it even. What I'm saying is, if you went out of your way , if you went above and beyond, perhaps you would see the rewards you are looking for. Cheapy has complained before you dont contribute to the content or research for your own show! So how could you expect him to hire you. Ship creates content. You are a sidekick who imagines he is something more. Im saying, DO MORE and make your case for being an employee compelling. If you have to argue how many hours per week you contribute compared to Ship, then I'd say you are not making a big enough impression. And no, posting in the forums does not count. I do that and I dont expect a dime from Cheapy.

What would you do if Cheapy paid you to be a part of the site?
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']He was there to help them make MGS4 better for Western audiences.[/QUOTE]
So maybe microsoft thinks he understands japanese audiences as well
 
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