CAGcast #165: Once Upon a Time Bullet
- Thread starter CheapyD
- Start date
aknowlesjr
CAGiversary!
cheapy was going to tell a story about moving w/o using boxes
mundione
CAGiversary!
[quote name='XTommyDonX']Great show guys. Thanks for the entertainment as usual.
Nice MJ story Cheapy. Wasn't there another story that you were supposed to tell during this episode that you mentioned on the last show or am I thinking of someone else?[/QUOTE]
It was the moving story about no boxes i believe you have forgotten to mention Cheapy
Nice MJ story Cheapy. Wasn't there another story that you were supposed to tell during this episode that you mentioned on the last show or am I thinking of someone else?[/QUOTE]
It was the moving story about no boxes i believe you have forgotten to mention Cheapy
ShinAkumA21
CAGiversary!
i'm enjoying The Conduit, i'll give it a 7.5 medicore single player campaign sucks, but online muilitplay is fun as hell and the controls are the best out there
The Great BM
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Though I haven't read comics regularly in 2-3 years, I'm still a Captain America fan, and I pretty much agree with you, Wombat. On top of that,
I think this is part of the reason I gave up reading comics...
from what I heard, isn't that basically the same way Batman "dies" in Final Crisis? Darkseid shooting him with some sort of special Omega Effect that just sends him back in time?
Cheapy you always end up mentioning on most shows how Nintendo sells like crazy because of brand recognition. Thats really not true, Nintendo's name didn't help them at all during the Gamecube era and it would have been this gen if they hadn't created the Wii. You give too much credit to the Nintendo name and not enough to the Wii brand.
hugues
CAG Veteran
I worked at an Electronics Boutique store over 15 years ago and from my recollection employees were definitely the main source of game theft. I was once sent to work at another location because the entire staff was fired for theft.
The most common theft tactic for staff was "short" shipments. There was a central warehouse that sent games to stores. They'd get 1,000 copies of Mike Ditka Power Football or whatever from the manufacturer then distribute them across all the stores. That was the case for games that sold 1-2 copies a week, major releases were sent directly to stores. Anyway, when a store received boxes they had to reconcile what was in the box vs. what they said was in the box. It was trivial to check an item as not received, no paperwork or audit, just mark that it wasn't in there. I can honestly say I never did this but know it happened all the time. Unless your store had some insane number of "missing" games no one ever checked. I think that's what happened at the other store I was sent to.
Once CD games starting coming in (I said this was over 15 years ago) overstock returns became a source of theft. Your store would get 30 copies of some Sega CD game that turned out to suck. They'd tell you to send 20 back to the warehouse who would then return them to Sega or whatever they did with them. Folks would open the game, pop out the CD, shrinkwrap it, and send the empty box back. Maybe they'd cram a free AOL disc in so it weighed the same, not that there's much weight difference between a full and empty Sega CD case. I also didn't do this but knew employees who did, although I didn't bother to stop them or rat them out.
With just empty display boxes on the shelf there wasn't much opportunity for customers to steal. Sometimes you'd get a group that worked as a team - some of them would try to get you to come to the back of the store to answer asinine questions while their buddies would grab whatever they could from behind the counter. That was pretty rare though. Now that I think about it, they weren't too bright. They'd try to steal $200-$300 worth of games while the register probably had $1000 worth of cash in it on an average day (way more if a major release just came out).
Oh and yeah, seasonal help was a sure source of theft.
The most common theft tactic for staff was "short" shipments. There was a central warehouse that sent games to stores. They'd get 1,000 copies of Mike Ditka Power Football or whatever from the manufacturer then distribute them across all the stores. That was the case for games that sold 1-2 copies a week, major releases were sent directly to stores. Anyway, when a store received boxes they had to reconcile what was in the box vs. what they said was in the box. It was trivial to check an item as not received, no paperwork or audit, just mark that it wasn't in there. I can honestly say I never did this but know it happened all the time. Unless your store had some insane number of "missing" games no one ever checked. I think that's what happened at the other store I was sent to.
Once CD games starting coming in (I said this was over 15 years ago) overstock returns became a source of theft. Your store would get 30 copies of some Sega CD game that turned out to suck. They'd tell you to send 20 back to the warehouse who would then return them to Sega or whatever they did with them. Folks would open the game, pop out the CD, shrinkwrap it, and send the empty box back. Maybe they'd cram a free AOL disc in so it weighed the same, not that there's much weight difference between a full and empty Sega CD case. I also didn't do this but knew employees who did, although I didn't bother to stop them or rat them out.
With just empty display boxes on the shelf there wasn't much opportunity for customers to steal. Sometimes you'd get a group that worked as a team - some of them would try to get you to come to the back of the store to answer asinine questions while their buddies would grab whatever they could from behind the counter. That was pretty rare though. Now that I think about it, they weren't too bright. They'd try to steal $200-$300 worth of games while the register probably had $1000 worth of cash in it on an average day (way more if a major release just came out).
Oh and yeah, seasonal help was a sure source of theft.
[quote name='ZombieJeebus']Cheapy, you should go to hawaii for your vacation. It's a good halfway point for you and your parents. And all the different islands have different stuff to do depending on your mood.[/QUOTE]
I second this, while I have never been to Hawaii i here it is nice ( maybe a little bit touristy.
For something even cheaper and also a half way point, how about Mexico, you can even smoke weed there and not worry about getting into trouble!
Also this comment maybe a little late, but people complaining about you talking about weed too much need to lighten up, I thought by now people would have accepted it as ok, and it is only a matter of time before it becomes a legal controlled substance, no different than alcohol.
I second this, while I have never been to Hawaii i here it is nice ( maybe a little bit touristy.
For something even cheaper and also a half way point, how about Mexico, you can even smoke weed there and not worry about getting into trouble!
Also this comment maybe a little late, but people complaining about you talking about weed too much need to lighten up, I thought by now people would have accepted it as ok, and it is only a matter of time before it becomes a legal controlled substance, no different than alcohol.
You rest the wiimote on your lap or on the couch when you play a Wii game and are pointing at the screen!!!!!!! Anyone who has put some time into Wii games knows this. Doh!!! YOu guys seem ignorant about the Wii. EVery week that seems to grow. FYI - most people don't play Wii games like they do in those Wii commercials.
Not to say Conduit is a great game. It ain't. But it's because it's a low budget affair done by a non-AAA team. I think if these guys did a 360 game with the same budget you'd get a similar result.
Also I hate to tell you guys this, but when the 360 and PS3 (or the next Xbox or PS) get pointing functionality in their controllers you guys and the gaming press will be slobbering all yourselves. It really is a better shooting experience than an analog stick unless you are the type that enjoys a horse and buggy over an automobile for your daily transportation needs or likes washing your clothes on a washboard along the river bank instead of using one of those new fancy shmancy electric washing machines.
I will say one nice thing about the Conduit. The controls to throw a 'nade are sweet. The waggle is very responsive, very easy to learn, and you can seamlessly throw nades while also shooting and moving.
Last, it's pretty pathetic that Wombat can't learn to do anything new at his age. I'm talking about his comments about holding the wimote in his left and moving with his right. Can I start calling him "Gramps?"
Love the show - ignorance, warts and all.
P.S. Yep. Thriller was such a big event. And yeah kids in my school dressed up like Michael especially the black guys. (later on it was the white guys and girls.) Also I bought Thriller as an LP. I think it might have been the only record I bought. Unless you count Moon Zappa's album which I purchased for the song "Valley Girl." Anyway bought the Essential MJ after he died. Yeah he died and I'm motivated to buy his music? wtf? ....., but really digging listening to tunes of my yutes. I'm mostly a Who kind of music guy, but I like some funk/r&b in my diet as well. And MJ has/had some pretty deep hooks.
Not to say Conduit is a great game. It ain't. But it's because it's a low budget affair done by a non-AAA team. I think if these guys did a 360 game with the same budget you'd get a similar result.
Also I hate to tell you guys this, but when the 360 and PS3 (or the next Xbox or PS) get pointing functionality in their controllers you guys and the gaming press will be slobbering all yourselves. It really is a better shooting experience than an analog stick unless you are the type that enjoys a horse and buggy over an automobile for your daily transportation needs or likes washing your clothes on a washboard along the river bank instead of using one of those new fancy shmancy electric washing machines.
I will say one nice thing about the Conduit. The controls to throw a 'nade are sweet. The waggle is very responsive, very easy to learn, and you can seamlessly throw nades while also shooting and moving.
Last, it's pretty pathetic that Wombat can't learn to do anything new at his age. I'm talking about his comments about holding the wimote in his left and moving with his right. Can I start calling him "Gramps?"
Love the show - ignorance, warts and all.
P.S. Yep. Thriller was such a big event. And yeah kids in my school dressed up like Michael especially the black guys. (later on it was the white guys and girls.) Also I bought Thriller as an LP. I think it might have been the only record I bought. Unless you count Moon Zappa's album which I purchased for the song "Valley Girl." Anyway bought the Essential MJ after he died. Yeah he died and I'm motivated to buy his music? wtf? ....., but really digging listening to tunes of my yutes. I'm mostly a Who kind of music guy, but I like some funk/r&b in my diet as well. And MJ has/had some pretty deep hooks.
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[quote name='Wombat']Because without any added support, like a desk or all being attached to one piece like a game pad a left handed person can not aim well using their right hand/arm on the Wii-mote.
Even for a right handed person, it is shaky and clumsy, an analog stick takes out the shakyiness of a person's arm as does a mouse. That is why both are better then the Wii-mote.[/QUOTE]
A Wiimote is more accurate to holding a real life gun though.
Clearly Wii = Realism
Even for a right handed person, it is shaky and clumsy, an analog stick takes out the shakyiness of a person's arm as does a mouse. That is why both are better then the Wii-mote.[/QUOTE]
A Wiimote is more accurate to holding a real life gun though.
Clearly Wii = Realism
spineynorman
CAGiversary!
WiiHD because it would be easier to port 360 games to it? WTF? Come on Pachter. If he's talking about a new Wii with more horsepower, then fine. But if he's just saying similar polygon counts but HD and a bit sharper, that'll make almost no difference in porting a game from 360. What a goofy thing to say.
spineynorman
CAGiversary!
[quote name='GTAFanBoy']also i would like 2 add it isnt a big deal like realy it is funny when you talk about it. and you guys should just expt it if he wants to do that he should be able to if he wants[/QUOTE]
This is your brain on drugs.
This is your brain on drugs.
[quote name='spineynorman']WiiHD because it would be easier to port 360 games to it? WTF? Come on Pachter. If he's talking about a new Wii with more horsepower, then fine. But if he's just saying similar polygon counts but HD and a bit sharper, that'll make almost no difference in porting a game from 360. What a goofy thing to say.[/QUOTE]
I know that was an odd quote, maybe if he is vague enough he can claim he was right later on.
I know that was an odd quote, maybe if he is vague enough he can claim he was right later on.
Davestation
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[quote name='sdp']A Wiimote is more accurate to holding a real life gun though.
Clearly Wii = Realism[/QUOTE]
Is this an attempt at a bad joke? Please tell me you are being sarcastic, I know my uncle took his Wii-mote to a gun fight and they told him to high tale him and his remote control out of there. My other Uncle died in that same gun fight, he took the original NES Zapper. In fact my other uncle was the only one that brought a real gun to the three man gun fight, and after watching the gunfight that 9mm is nothing like holding a wii mote.....
Clearly Wii = Realism[/QUOTE]
Is this an attempt at a bad joke? Please tell me you are being sarcastic, I know my uncle took his Wii-mote to a gun fight and they told him to high tale him and his remote control out of there. My other Uncle died in that same gun fight, he took the original NES Zapper. In fact my other uncle was the only one that brought a real gun to the three man gun fight, and after watching the gunfight that 9mm is nothing like holding a wii mote.....
[quote name='Wombat']which is why all the best selling and critically acclaimed fps's of this generation are on the Wii, oh wait[/QUOTE]
That is independent of whether the pointing functionality > analog stick for aiming and shooting.
Take the PS1 and N64. The Ps1 was the runaway success while the N64 was the console that introduced the superior control in the form of the analog stick. Sony eventually copied it of course.
It's not the control's fault that AAA fps games haven't come to the Wii. It's a combination of other factors. Some right. Some wrong. But that's beside the point.
Fact is pointing functionality is a faster and more accurate videogame shooting mechanism that an analog stick. Seeing as how shooters are some of the most popular games on the 360 and PS3 it is a question of when and not if pointing functionality arrives on those systems or their successors.
So keep those Tai's and Samantha's bibs handy. You're going to need them.
That is independent of whether the pointing functionality > analog stick for aiming and shooting.
Take the PS1 and N64. The Ps1 was the runaway success while the N64 was the console that introduced the superior control in the form of the analog stick. Sony eventually copied it of course.
It's not the control's fault that AAA fps games haven't come to the Wii. It's a combination of other factors. Some right. Some wrong. But that's beside the point.
Fact is pointing functionality is a faster and more accurate videogame shooting mechanism that an analog stick. Seeing as how shooters are some of the most popular games on the 360 and PS3 it is a question of when and not if pointing functionality arrives on those systems or their successors.
So keep those Tai's and Samantha's bibs handy. You're going to need them.
Davestation
CAGiversary!
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[quote name='trip1eX']That is independent of whether the pointing functionality > analog stick for aiming and shooting.[/QUOTE]
When you take the wii mote and aim it you have to look and figure out where on the screen your cross hair is. Than you have to move it and keep it very steady while you aim and than shoot. This is much easier done with analog and just the simple movement of your thumb instead of your whole arm.
[quote name='trip1eX']Take the PS1 and N64. The Ps1 was the runaway success while the N64 was the console that introduced the superior control in the form of the analog stick. Sony eventually copied it of course.[/QUOTE]
If you check your history, the first controller to actually use analog stick was the Atari 5200 in the form of their joystick. Nintendo was first to use it for 3-D games, though Sega also used a simular controller on their Sega Saturn Knights into Dreams that was in development at the exact same time. Sony only revolutionized the concept with coming out with two analog sticks. Nintendo copied this on the Gamecube by adding the C-stick, even Microsoft uses this same technology. The first game to make you use the dual analog controllers was Ape Escape for the PS1. The first FPS game ever to use the dual analogs was Timesplitters for the PS2, wich had many of the same developers from Rare that worked on 007 Goldeneye for the N64.
[quote name='trip1eX']It's not the control's fault that AAA fps games haven't come to the Wii. It's a combination of other factors. Some right. Some wrong. But that's beside the point.[/QUOTE]
Yes it is the controllers fault. PS3 and X-Box have eight main buttons (ten including analog stick buttons) plus a D-Pad (usually ued for weapon select) while the Wii-mote + nunchuck only has four main buttons that are accesible while holding it plus a D-Pad. The - and + buttons you can use so I will even add them to it, but the total number of buttons is six. You can not comfortably hold the controller and move your thumb down to hit 1 or 2. This is a list of what is common in FPS games now on consoles that you need a buttons for. Fire, Reload, Zoom/Aim, Dash, Crouch/Prone, throw grenade, action button (hit an elevator button or a switch), fire secondary, grenade type select. Weapon select is usually achieved by a D-Pad. So if you want a real current FPS, the wii controller can not handle it due to lack of buttons. You have to settle for things being taken out to acomidate the controller.
[quote name='trip1eX']Fact is pointing functionality is a faster and more accurate videogame shooting mechanism that an analog stick. Seeing as how shooters are some of the most popular games on the 360 and PS3 it is a question of when and not if pointing functionality arrives on those systems or their successors.[/QUOTE]
No an analgog and joystick are more accurate. You do not see the Army using motion sensor technology to drop bombs on Iraq, they use joysticks because like an analog you can steadily keep aim on a target with ease unlike holding your arm up, if you need something to rest your arm while you play that is not the most efficient.
[quote name='trip1eX']So keep those Tai's and Samantha's bibs handy. You're going to need them.[/QUOTE]
Who's Samantha? Why do you need to keep bibs ready. I bet that Sabrina* can kick your ass in games in about six years...
*I thought Wombats offspring was named after a teenage witch, I am not as good of a stalker as I used to be so I may be wrong.
When you take the wii mote and aim it you have to look and figure out where on the screen your cross hair is. Than you have to move it and keep it very steady while you aim and than shoot. This is much easier done with analog and just the simple movement of your thumb instead of your whole arm.
[quote name='trip1eX']Take the PS1 and N64. The Ps1 was the runaway success while the N64 was the console that introduced the superior control in the form of the analog stick. Sony eventually copied it of course.[/QUOTE]
If you check your history, the first controller to actually use analog stick was the Atari 5200 in the form of their joystick. Nintendo was first to use it for 3-D games, though Sega also used a simular controller on their Sega Saturn Knights into Dreams that was in development at the exact same time. Sony only revolutionized the concept with coming out with two analog sticks. Nintendo copied this on the Gamecube by adding the C-stick, even Microsoft uses this same technology. The first game to make you use the dual analog controllers was Ape Escape for the PS1. The first FPS game ever to use the dual analogs was Timesplitters for the PS2, wich had many of the same developers from Rare that worked on 007 Goldeneye for the N64.
[quote name='trip1eX']It's not the control's fault that AAA fps games haven't come to the Wii. It's a combination of other factors. Some right. Some wrong. But that's beside the point.[/QUOTE]
Yes it is the controllers fault. PS3 and X-Box have eight main buttons (ten including analog stick buttons) plus a D-Pad (usually ued for weapon select) while the Wii-mote + nunchuck only has four main buttons that are accesible while holding it plus a D-Pad. The - and + buttons you can use so I will even add them to it, but the total number of buttons is six. You can not comfortably hold the controller and move your thumb down to hit 1 or 2. This is a list of what is common in FPS games now on consoles that you need a buttons for. Fire, Reload, Zoom/Aim, Dash, Crouch/Prone, throw grenade, action button (hit an elevator button or a switch), fire secondary, grenade type select. Weapon select is usually achieved by a D-Pad. So if you want a real current FPS, the wii controller can not handle it due to lack of buttons. You have to settle for things being taken out to acomidate the controller.
[quote name='trip1eX']Fact is pointing functionality is a faster and more accurate videogame shooting mechanism that an analog stick. Seeing as how shooters are some of the most popular games on the 360 and PS3 it is a question of when and not if pointing functionality arrives on those systems or their successors.[/QUOTE]
No an analgog and joystick are more accurate. You do not see the Army using motion sensor technology to drop bombs on Iraq, they use joysticks because like an analog you can steadily keep aim on a target with ease unlike holding your arm up, if you need something to rest your arm while you play that is not the most efficient.
[quote name='trip1eX']So keep those Tai's and Samantha's bibs handy. You're going to need them.[/QUOTE]
Who's Samantha? Why do you need to keep bibs ready. I bet that Sabrina* can kick your ass in games in about six years...
*I thought Wombats offspring was named after a teenage witch, I am not as good of a stalker as I used to be so I may be wrong.
CheapyD, the new feature you talked about implementing into the CAG site sounds pretty major. I'm surprised how quickly you glossed over it in the podcast. For those who don't know, that feature is the storing trade-in value of used games across all major retailers.
Imagine going to CAG, looking up a game and seeing how much its trade-in value is. Imagine being able to compare the trade-in values of Amazon and Gamestop. This is something that will take CAG to a whole new level!!!
There have been times I've gone to Gamestop with a pile of games and got back a ridiculously low amount of store credit. One of my games was worth only $2 in store credit.
I've also tried calling Gamestop to ask about trade-in values. The lazy bastards usually tell me I have to go to the store to get my game appraised.
This new feature will definitely save me a lot of time and energy.
Imagine going to CAG, looking up a game and seeing how much its trade-in value is. Imagine being able to compare the trade-in values of Amazon and Gamestop. This is something that will take CAG to a whole new level!!!
There have been times I've gone to Gamestop with a pile of games and got back a ridiculously low amount of store credit. One of my games was worth only $2 in store credit.
I've also tried calling Gamestop to ask about trade-in values. The lazy bastards usually tell me I have to go to the store to get my game appraised.
This new feature will definitely save me a lot of time and energy.
saunderscowie
CAGiversary!
With the discussion about TV shows I was wondering if either of you have watched Curb Your Enthusiasm? It's my top favourite US show and I think you'd both love it.
And on a name for Wombats section maybe "Wombat's Nest"?
And on a name for Wombats section maybe "Wombat's Nest"?
Earmuffin585
CAGiversary!
San Francisco! It's not too far from Japan and not to far from New York. San Francisco got good seafood and sights.
AgentSushi
CAG Veteran
Cheapy you should come to Britain on holiday lol
I was looking for Anna Paquin boobs and yeah I found 'em* and between them and CheapyD's recommendation I think I'm going to take up First Blood
P.S. After reading the comment on that page i think that it IS a stupid site. lol internet. lol.
[quote name='Davestation']Yes it is the controllers fault. PS3 and X-Box have eight main buttons (ten including analog stick buttons) plus a D-Pad (usually ued for weapon select) while the Wii-mote + nunchuck only has four main buttons that are accesible while holding it plus a D-Pad. The - and + buttons you can use so I will even add them to it, but the total number of buttons is six. You can not comfortably hold the controller and move your thumb down to hit 1 or 2. This is a list of what is common in FPS games now on consoles that you need a buttons for. Fire, Reload, Zoom/Aim, Dash, Crouch/Prone, throw grenade, action button (hit an elevator button or a switch), fire secondary, grenade type select. Weapon select is usually achieved by a D-Pad. So if you want a real current FPS, the wii controller can not handle it due to lack of buttons. You have to settle for things being taken out to acomidate the controller[/QUOTE]I may be stepping into a fight I know nothing about but if you think an FPS actually needs all those buttons you crazy.
You can make a good FPS without grenades, action buttons can be contexual combinations, secondary firing options aren't necessary, no grenades means no grenade select, not that you couldn't get by with just one grenade type. lots of good FPS don't have dash. If it's done right you can get by with just one gun at a time instead of two. Heck there was a time when FPS shooters didn't have a melee. Though quite frankly with motion controls can't see why you wouldn't use it for fwaping.
Whether you like it or not games are freaking over-complicated. it's not always a bad thing but you have to be able to see that games could simplify a lot and still be good. I remember PC fps that have lean buttons, alternate vision buttons, special skill buttons on top of all the buttons you listed. These are modern games too and that doesn't make the console games any less.
Having not played The Conduit I can't say if they're designing a game for more buttons than they have but there's no reason you NEED that many buttons.
P.S. After reading the comment on that page i think that it IS a stupid site. lol internet. lol.
[quote name='Davestation']Yes it is the controllers fault. PS3 and X-Box have eight main buttons (ten including analog stick buttons) plus a D-Pad (usually ued for weapon select) while the Wii-mote + nunchuck only has four main buttons that are accesible while holding it plus a D-Pad. The - and + buttons you can use so I will even add them to it, but the total number of buttons is six. You can not comfortably hold the controller and move your thumb down to hit 1 or 2. This is a list of what is common in FPS games now on consoles that you need a buttons for. Fire, Reload, Zoom/Aim, Dash, Crouch/Prone, throw grenade, action button (hit an elevator button or a switch), fire secondary, grenade type select. Weapon select is usually achieved by a D-Pad. So if you want a real current FPS, the wii controller can not handle it due to lack of buttons. You have to settle for things being taken out to acomidate the controller[/QUOTE]I may be stepping into a fight I know nothing about but if you think an FPS actually needs all those buttons you crazy.
You can make a good FPS without grenades, action buttons can be contexual combinations, secondary firing options aren't necessary, no grenades means no grenade select, not that you couldn't get by with just one grenade type. lots of good FPS don't have dash. If it's done right you can get by with just one gun at a time instead of two. Heck there was a time when FPS shooters didn't have a melee. Though quite frankly with motion controls can't see why you wouldn't use it for fwaping.
Whether you like it or not games are freaking over-complicated. it's not always a bad thing but you have to be able to see that games could simplify a lot and still be good. I remember PC fps that have lean buttons, alternate vision buttons, special skill buttons on top of all the buttons you listed. These are modern games too and that doesn't make the console games any less.
Having not played The Conduit I can't say if they're designing a game for more buttons than they have but there's no reason you NEED that many buttons.
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Lefty Flip
Were you a huge fan of the Atari Lynx? Do you play Halo with the Legacy settings? Unless you only use Legacy and don't play games that don't offer it you've proven that you're adaptable. As a fellow southpaw I can speak from experience and say the world is designed for the right-handers. You've been adapting your entire life to right sided design. The very fact that the buttons are on the right side of the controller is counter dominant to us, but we adapt. Not every game offers a southpaw option and we still play them. It will be the same with the Wiimote. It just takes practice.*
Should more (all) Wii games support a lefty flip**? Yes. Will they? No. but we'll adapt like we did when FPS games switched from the Legacy to the current standard controls. Think of it like learning to use scissors it was awkward at first but I bet you could make some great paper craft if I locked you in my basement with scissors and paper?
*I'm sure someone will make the argument that considering the library there's no much reason to practice and that's all fine and well but to address the 'stranger' aspect of the controls my point remains
** it is a shame that the most customizable Wii game neglects a lefty flip option.
Were you a huge fan of the Atari Lynx? Do you play Halo with the Legacy settings? Unless you only use Legacy and don't play games that don't offer it you've proven that you're adaptable. As a fellow southpaw I can speak from experience and say the world is designed for the right-handers. You've been adapting your entire life to right sided design. The very fact that the buttons are on the right side of the controller is counter dominant to us, but we adapt. Not every game offers a southpaw option and we still play them. It will be the same with the Wiimote. It just takes practice.*
Should more (all) Wii games support a lefty flip**? Yes. Will they? No. but we'll adapt like we did when FPS games switched from the Legacy to the current standard controls. Think of it like learning to use scissors it was awkward at first but I bet you could make some great paper craft if I locked you in my basement with scissors and paper?
*I'm sure someone will make the argument that considering the library there's no much reason to practice and that's all fine and well but to address the 'stranger' aspect of the controls my point remains
** it is a shame that the most customizable Wii game neglects a lefty flip option.
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[quote name='Davestation']Yes it is the controllers fault. PS3 and X-Box have eight main buttons (ten including analog stick buttons) plus a D-Pad (usually ued for weapon select) while the Wii-mote + nunchuck only has four main buttons that are accesible while holding it plus a D-Pad. The - and + buttons you can use so I will even add them to it, but the total number of buttons is six. You can not comfortably hold the controller and move your thumb down to hit 1 or 2. This is a list of what is common in FPS games now on consoles that you need a buttons for. Fire, Reload, Zoom/Aim, Dash, Crouch/Prone, throw grenade, action button (hit an elevator button or a switch), fire secondary, grenade type select. Weapon select is usually achieved by a D-Pad. So if you want a real current FPS, the wii controller can not handle it due to lack of buttons. You have to settle for things being taken out to acomidate the controller[/QUOTE]I may be stepping into a fight I know nothing about but if you think an FPS actually needs all those buttons you crazy.
You can make a good FPS without grenades, action buttons can be contexual combinations, secondary firing options aren't necessary, no grenades means no grenade select, not that you couldn't get by with just one grenade type. lots of good FPS don't have dash. If it's done right you can get by with just one gun at a time instead of two. Heck there was a time when FPS shooters didn't have a melee. Though quite frankly with motion controls can't see why you wouldn't use it for fwaping.
Whether you like it or not games are freaking over-complicated. it's not always a bad thing but you have to be able to see that games could simplify a lot and still be good. I remember PC fps that have lean buttons, alternate vision buttons, special skill buttons on top of all the buttons you listed. These are modern games too and that doesn't make the console games any less.
Having not played The Conduit I can't say if they're designing a game for more buttons than they have but there's no reason you NEED that many buttons.
You can make a good FPS without grenades, action buttons can be contexual combinations, secondary firing options aren't necessary, no grenades means no grenade select, not that you couldn't get by with just one grenade type. lots of good FPS don't have dash. If it's done right you can get by with just one gun at a time instead of two. Heck there was a time when FPS shooters didn't have a melee. Though quite frankly with motion controls can't see why you wouldn't use it for fwaping.
Whether you like it or not games are freaking over-complicated. it's not always a bad thing but you have to be able to see that games could simplify a lot and still be good. I remember PC fps that have lean buttons, alternate vision buttons, special skill buttons on top of all the buttons you listed. These are modern games too and that doesn't make the console games any less.
Having not played The Conduit I can't say if they're designing a game for more buttons than they have but there's no reason you NEED that many buttons.
Davestation
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[quote name='Wolfkin']
I may be stepping into a fight I know nothing about but if you think an FPS actually needs all those buttons you crazy.
[/QUOTE]
Just pointing out that the Wii controller is limited and comparing "AAA" titles like Resistance, Halo, and Call of Duty. You can not have an experience like any of those using a Wii controller scheme. I do not play my wii, but the games I have played the - and + buttons where never used, but I still added them to make six buttons.
If you wanted to create the FPS of your dreams, would you create it on the Wii? Or would you want to be able to have more access of controls and not take out grenades or dashing to help make your game the best FPS ever? Than again, this is the big Line that Nintendo is drawing from Casual gamers to hardcore and they are holding the industry back and not revolutionizing it. They are just like Atari with how much garbage they have on their console with zero to no quality control wich is flooding the market, and now I have to have discussions like this because Nintendo is always behind the current video game trends.
I may be stepping into a fight I know nothing about but if you think an FPS actually needs all those buttons you crazy.
[/QUOTE]
Just pointing out that the Wii controller is limited and comparing "AAA" titles like Resistance, Halo, and Call of Duty. You can not have an experience like any of those using a Wii controller scheme. I do not play my wii, but the games I have played the - and + buttons where never used, but I still added them to make six buttons.
If you wanted to create the FPS of your dreams, would you create it on the Wii? Or would you want to be able to have more access of controls and not take out grenades or dashing to help make your game the best FPS ever? Than again, this is the big Line that Nintendo is drawing from Casual gamers to hardcore and they are holding the industry back and not revolutionizing it. They are just like Atari with how much garbage they have on their console with zero to no quality control wich is flooding the market, and now I have to have discussions like this because Nintendo is always behind the current video game trends.
[quote name='Davestation']When you take the wii mote and aim it you have to look and figure out where on the screen your cross hair is. Than you have to move it and keep it very steady while you aim and than shoot. This is much easier done with analog and just the simple movement of your thumb instead of your whole arm.
[/quote]
Ignorance is bliss. You don't use your whole arm. Anyone that has put some time into the Wii knows this. How do you use your TV remote? Do you stick your arm straight out in the air and aim it at the TV every time you want to change a channel?
Ironically it seems the same crowd that says, "oh you can just flick your wrist in WiiSports instead of doing the full motions" also thinks you have to hold your arm straight out in the air in order to aim at the screen.
Can we bury this wiimote myth yet? Bueller?
[quote name='Davestation']
If you check your history, the first controller to actually use analog stick was the Atari 5200 in the form of their joystick. Nintendo was first to use it for 3-D games, though Sega also used a simular controller on their Sega Saturn Knights into Dreams that was in development at the exact same time. Sony only revolutionized the concept with coming out with two analog sticks. Nintendo copied this on the Gamecube by adding the C-stick, even Microsoft uses this same technology. The first game to make you use the dual analog controllers was Ape Escape for the PS1. The first FPS game ever to use the dual analogs was Timesplitters for the PS2, wich had many of the same developers from Rare that worked on 007 Goldeneye for the N64.[/quote]
You're missing the point. The point wasn't to debate the exact history of game controllers, but to show that superior control technology is often independent of success at least at first. You've just backed me up there whether you realize it or not.
Again there are lots of factors of why the best fps games aren't on the Wii. The wiimote isn't on that list of factors from what I can tell. I don't believe developers are saying, "the wiimote has that pointing functionality so we're not going to bring our fps games to the Wii."
[quote name='Davestation']
Yes it is the controllers fault. PS3 and X-Box have eight main buttons (ten including analog stick buttons) plus a D-Pad (usually ued for weapon select) while the Wii-mote + nunchuck only has four main buttons that are accesible while holding it plus a D-Pad. The - and + buttons you can use so I will even add them to it, but the total number of buttons is six. You can not comfortably hold the controller and move your thumb down to hit 1 or 2. This is a list of what is common in FPS games now on consoles that you need a buttons for. Fire, Reload, Zoom/Aim, Dash, Crouch/Prone, throw grenade, action button (hit an elevator button or a switch), fire secondary, grenade type select. Weapon select is usually achieved by a D-Pad. So if you want a real current FPS, the wii controller can not handle it due to lack of buttons. You have to settle for things being taken out to acomidate the controller. [/quote]
Again you're missing the point. I believe I said "pointing functionality is greater than the analog stick for aiming and shooting." You can debate the button counts with yourself if you want. I'm pretty sure the wiimote isn't the end all be all for controllers and will be improved upon in the future. And, again, I don't believe developers are saying, "we're not bringing our fps games to the Wii because of that darn pointing functionality present in the wiimote."
[quote name='Davestation']
No an analgog and joystick are more accurate. You do not see the Army using motion sensor technology to drop bombs on Iraq, they use joysticks because like an analog you can steadily keep aim on a target with ease unlike holding your arm up, if you need something to rest your arm while you play that is not the most efficient. [/quote]
That's a terrible analogy. Do soldiers aim their M16s (or whatever they use now) with joysticks? I thought they still point and shoot. If the army wanted to shoot virtual human targets on a virtual screen in their living room they would use a wiimote instead of a joystick. It's faster and more accurate.
[quote name='Davestation']
Who's Samantha? Why do you need to keep bibs ready. I bet that Sabrina* can kick your ass in games in about six years...
*I thought Wombats offspring was named after a teenage witch, I am not as good of a stalker as I used to be so I may be wrong.[/QUOTE]
Ok wrong witch. My middle name is Cheapie.
[/quote]
Ignorance is bliss. You don't use your whole arm. Anyone that has put some time into the Wii knows this. How do you use your TV remote? Do you stick your arm straight out in the air and aim it at the TV every time you want to change a channel?
Ironically it seems the same crowd that says, "oh you can just flick your wrist in WiiSports instead of doing the full motions" also thinks you have to hold your arm straight out in the air in order to aim at the screen.
Can we bury this wiimote myth yet? Bueller?
[quote name='Davestation']
If you check your history, the first controller to actually use analog stick was the Atari 5200 in the form of their joystick. Nintendo was first to use it for 3-D games, though Sega also used a simular controller on their Sega Saturn Knights into Dreams that was in development at the exact same time. Sony only revolutionized the concept with coming out with two analog sticks. Nintendo copied this on the Gamecube by adding the C-stick, even Microsoft uses this same technology. The first game to make you use the dual analog controllers was Ape Escape for the PS1. The first FPS game ever to use the dual analogs was Timesplitters for the PS2, wich had many of the same developers from Rare that worked on 007 Goldeneye for the N64.[/quote]
You're missing the point. The point wasn't to debate the exact history of game controllers, but to show that superior control technology is often independent of success at least at first. You've just backed me up there whether you realize it or not.
Again there are lots of factors of why the best fps games aren't on the Wii. The wiimote isn't on that list of factors from what I can tell. I don't believe developers are saying, "the wiimote has that pointing functionality so we're not going to bring our fps games to the Wii."
[quote name='Davestation']
Yes it is the controllers fault. PS3 and X-Box have eight main buttons (ten including analog stick buttons) plus a D-Pad (usually ued for weapon select) while the Wii-mote + nunchuck only has four main buttons that are accesible while holding it plus a D-Pad. The - and + buttons you can use so I will even add them to it, but the total number of buttons is six. You can not comfortably hold the controller and move your thumb down to hit 1 or 2. This is a list of what is common in FPS games now on consoles that you need a buttons for. Fire, Reload, Zoom/Aim, Dash, Crouch/Prone, throw grenade, action button (hit an elevator button or a switch), fire secondary, grenade type select. Weapon select is usually achieved by a D-Pad. So if you want a real current FPS, the wii controller can not handle it due to lack of buttons. You have to settle for things being taken out to acomidate the controller. [/quote]
Again you're missing the point. I believe I said "pointing functionality is greater than the analog stick for aiming and shooting." You can debate the button counts with yourself if you want. I'm pretty sure the wiimote isn't the end all be all for controllers and will be improved upon in the future. And, again, I don't believe developers are saying, "we're not bringing our fps games to the Wii because of that darn pointing functionality present in the wiimote."
[quote name='Davestation']
No an analgog and joystick are more accurate. You do not see the Army using motion sensor technology to drop bombs on Iraq, they use joysticks because like an analog you can steadily keep aim on a target with ease unlike holding your arm up, if you need something to rest your arm while you play that is not the most efficient. [/quote]
That's a terrible analogy. Do soldiers aim their M16s (or whatever they use now) with joysticks? I thought they still point and shoot. If the army wanted to shoot virtual human targets on a virtual screen in their living room they would use a wiimote instead of a joystick. It's faster and more accurate.
[quote name='Davestation']
Who's Samantha? Why do you need to keep bibs ready. I bet that Sabrina* can kick your ass in games in about six years...
*I thought Wombats offspring was named after a teenage witch, I am not as good of a stalker as I used to be so I may be wrong.[/QUOTE]
Ok wrong witch. My middle name is Cheapie.
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[quote name='Wombat']Because without any added support, like a desk or all being attached to one piece like a game pad a left handed person can not aim well using their right hand/arm on the Wii-mote.
Even for a right handed person, it is shaky and clumsy, an analog stick takes out the shakyiness of a person's arm as does a mouse. That is why both are better then the Wii-mote.[/QUOTE]
I'm left-handed as well and I don't have any fatigue issues.. i guess it's just personal preference. the closest to being "good" at a shooting game on a dual analog I ever got was Stranglehold, and it still took me a few hours before i stopped spraying the walls with shells. Metroid Prime 3 on Wii came to me much more naturally-and I'm not saying it's perfect- but at least I was pretty accurate within 5 or 10 minutes.
Generally though- I don't even consider FPS games unless they're on a PC or I pick them up really cheap.
Even for a right handed person, it is shaky and clumsy, an analog stick takes out the shakyiness of a person's arm as does a mouse. That is why both are better then the Wii-mote.[/QUOTE]
I'm left-handed as well and I don't have any fatigue issues.. i guess it's just personal preference. the closest to being "good" at a shooting game on a dual analog I ever got was Stranglehold, and it still took me a few hours before i stopped spraying the walls with shells. Metroid Prime 3 on Wii came to me much more naturally-and I'm not saying it's perfect- but at least I was pretty accurate within 5 or 10 minutes.
Generally though- I don't even consider FPS games unless they're on a PC or I pick them up really cheap.
[quote name='Davestation']If you wanted to create the FPS of your dreams, would you create it on the Wii? [/QUOTE]while I personally would consider it debatable, my point was that just because it's not the best FPS ever of your dreams doesn't mean it can't be good. Doesn't mean it can't be VERY good. I mean in theory the best mech game ever should have been Steel Battalion (40+ buttons), the two lessons we learned there is that a) never jump ahead 20 more buttons than people are used to and b) more buttons doesn't make it better
Squeedom49
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Hey Wombat, I feel I need to infrom you. There is already a term that describes your time bullets. Its called Alien Sapce Bat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_space_bats
Example of the term: To debunk the possibility of a successful Operation Sealion by saying the only way it could be successful was if alien space bats helped the Nazis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_space_bats
Example of the term: To debunk the possibility of a successful Operation Sealion by saying the only way it could be successful was if alien space bats helped the Nazis
serenitygod
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About the DLC debate, do you think if you pre-order a game that you should get free DLC for life? A one time DLC purchase or what?
This question spawns from what Cheapy said. As he exclaimed that he hated the pre-order bonuses given from Gamestop.
So where do your loyalties lie? Also, what about games with limited editions? BAA states you get DLC pack 1 w/ le purchase.
This question spawns from what Cheapy said. As he exclaimed that he hated the pre-order bonuses given from Gamestop.
So where do your loyalties lie? Also, what about games with limited editions? BAA states you get DLC pack 1 w/ le purchase.
davkeats
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I watched the beginning of a Smallville episode once not knowing what it was. I honestly thought it was some shitty teen drama, such as the New 90210 or One Tree Hill, etc...
the show was a train wreck and i couldnt look away...then a reporter named Lois started talking to a guy named Clark and i realized what i was watching
im glad Wombat recognizes that Smallville is a guilty pleasure and not a good show. (from what ive gathered)
the show was a train wreck and i couldnt look away...then a reporter named Lois started talking to a guy named Clark and i realized what i was watching
im glad Wombat recognizes that Smallville is a guilty pleasure and not a good show. (from what ive gathered)
bread's done