CAGcast #324: Still Breathing

CheapyD

CheapyD

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[preview][IMG-L=5838]15060[/IMG-L]The gang talks Iron Man 3, Far Cry 3: Blood Dragon, Penny Arcade Kickstarter, Pebble Watch and so much more!

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[podcast]234[/podcast]
Download (1 hour 10 minutes) - iTunes
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Intro/Outro: Who's Watching/Arty Fufkin - GI JOE PSA
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I guess you can listen to Wombat's other podcast, Uninformed Opinions.
 
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Woo, CAGcast!

Yes Penny Arcade still sucks but who really cares if fans want to donate, I don't think they want to sell the podcast on iTunes so that anyone can listen even without donating. Yes $1000 to play with them on Xbox live does seem extortionate but some people are huge fans of their website so why not let them spend their money and lets not forget how much Cheapy paid to see Howard Stern (although to be fair that money went to charity) as he was a huge fan.

I would happily donate some money if the CAGcast did a Kickstarter/Chip-in as I've listened to 324 episodes for completely free and although you might think it seems wrong/awkward taking money from people might have never met, it wouldn't feel that way to those who care about and enjoy the podcast. It would feel even less awkward if fans were chiping in for something like a Next Generation console for Wombat like Cheapy did with the PS3 as I suspect he will only buy one of them at launch as that is something that will be discussed a lot on the show.

Cheapy congrats on the 10 year anniversary of the website, it's as old as Steam!
 
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My friend has the Pebble and it's pretty cool. I want one but the shipments for nonbackers is taking forever. I've been on the mailing list for months.

And I totally agree about the Penny Arcade Kickstarter. They don't need the money from a kickstarter. The fact that they made the goal $10 was quite obvious. It's bullshit.
 
Is penny arcade going to do a kickstarter EVERY YEAR?! Cheapy, perhaps it's time to reconsider funding Child's Play. The Child's Play charity is a good cause however there are a lot of other good causes out there also which are desperately needing contributions. Maybe you could have a poll on the CAG forums to determine the new cause to support? I would nominate the Make a Wish foundation.
 
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My problem with the Penny Arcade Kickstarter looking like a slimy money-grab is that it has great potential to negatively impact their brand. If someone disapproves of it and thus decides to no longer support Penny Arcade in their efforts then that leaves them three main avenues to do so: 1. Don't visit their website, 2. Don't attend PAX, and 3. Don't give money to their charity.

That last option is the one which they should have seriously considered before brushing-off any potential backlash. It's very easy to either not give money to charity or to adjust the various Child's Play bundle sliders down to $0 and they definitely should have thought that bit through. I'm not worried about how their fans will react but rather how the people which already don't use their website or attend PAX will react.
 
Show Notes

2:15 Pebble watch - works indoors AND outdoors
8:00 Penny Arcade kickstarter
20:45 Wombat's private dining experience
22:15 Show feedback
22:15 - XBL DRM
23:45 Watch This
23:45 - Zero Dark Thirty
24:30 - Iron Man 3
29:30 - Room 237 (Kubrick docu)
30:15 New Releases
30:15 - Iron Sky Invasion
32:45 - Doritos game that doesn't work, Pac-man on WiiU
33:30 - Way of the Dog
34:45 - Mario/Donkey Kong
36:00 Far Cry: Blood Dragon
41:00 Tomb Raider
46:45 Pinball FX2 (pc)
49:15 Telltale Games: Wolf Among Us
52:00 New Gran Turismo
53:45 EA not supporting the WiiU
55:00 CAG 10 yr anniversary
56:30 Hellraid trailer
57:30 Cagbag
57:30 - Disappearance of ingame ads
1:03:00 - Saints Row IV trailer
1:03:45 - Using handles for names
 
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[quote name='BetaDemo']Is penny arcade going to do a kickstarter EVERY YEAR?![/QUOTE]

You're forgetting the annual "No ads" campaign they'll do in a few months I'm sure.
Also, that was a really good answer Wombat about the in-game ads. I never thought about the dashboard.
 
I know you guys won't say it for fear of backlash but I'll go ahead and say it:

fuck PENNY ARCADE! Their kickstarter crap is a bunch of bullshit. I never visit their website, their comic isn't funny, and every time they speak they come off as douchebags (ya know why? because they are douchebags). They always act like the world owes them something for being picked on in high school or something. It's obvious they still harbor resent for not being popular back in the day. This is obviously another cash grab and they should be ashamed of what they are doing. $500-$1000 for a mention or being able to play with you on XBOX LIVE? fuckING Seriously? Who cares? Assholes.

On another note: Ya know what? If you guys asked me for $10 bucks I give it up in a heartbeat, as of this episode I've gotten #324 podcasts for $0. Your attitude is that of regular gamers not some elitist bullshit place that only exists in the minds of PA. Tack on all of the great deals, CAG conversations, and general good will I've gotten over the many years I've been here and I feel like I should be pledging more. Your work is appreciated. So I guess what I'm trying to say is HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!!!! As a longtime member it's great to see how it's grown.

RANT OVER.
 
I love Cheapy's "no judgements - this shit wrong" statement about Kickstarter (KS).

Wombat seems like he really would like to do a KS... why don't you start a KS for your other podcast.

I know someone at KS and they are struggling with this problem of who to let use their service. They better change their policy because this is egregious.

So Wombat were going put ads in The Warriors game? Isn't that a bit anachronistic?

Oh yeah Wombat, DON'T DO A TASTING MENU on Long Island. Go to the Zagat's guide pick the top places in NYC, easy-peasy.
 
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Cheapy, Wombat, Shipwreck. If you wanted to see how much you could get through Kickstarter. You could make an unrealistic amount like one trillion dollars for it to be funded and make mention that you just want to see how much you could make.
 
Penny-Arcade-Kickstarter-620x321.jpg
 
I'm with Cheapy--I don't really understand the people who get outraged about Kickstarter projects that violate The Spirit of Kickstarter, as if that is some long established and important concept we must defend. As long as no one is forcing you to donate to a Kickstarter project, and as long as the Kickstarter people are comfortable letting the project run, who cares? People sell all kinds of things I'm not interested in, why should it matter to me how they choose to go about that? That said, the Penny Arcade Kickstarter does seem to be a particularly stupid one, and I'm not sure why anyone would donate to it. But if there are people who want to pay $500 to hear the PA dudes say their name, then good for them, I guess?

Wombat tricked me into downloading Uninformed Opinions because I was too curious about his private dining experience. I did a tasting menu at the chef's table at a very fancy restaurant out in my area on the night my wife and I got engaged, and it was phenomenal (and phenomenally expensive), so I can sympathize with how bad it would be to have a disappointing meal under those circumstances. But Wombat should just tell us which Rockstar game he was talking about already--what bridges could that possibly burn at this point? Given the details, I assume it must be the Warriors game they did (they did that, right?).
 
I haven't paid CAG directly any money for the CAGcasts, but they have cost me plenty of money to date. There have been many games mentioned by all three (and Mrs. Shipwreck) that I had no interest in until their discussions. Then, I bought the games.

Also, regarding Wombat's "experience", I stopped the CAGcast to move to the UNOPcast for the full story, then back. Bummer of an "experience". Don't know if "horrible" was the best word to describe it, but it would've been on the "majorly disappointing" level for just about anyone.
 
I think Wombat just sold me on checking out Uninformed Opinions. Episode 17 away!

I appreciate that you do the CAGcast because you enjoy it. I would still give some financial support to CAG if given an opportunity.

I got a big kick out of the Frisky Tanooki owes CAG $500 riff.
 
I'm with Wombat and Shipwreck: that Pebble watch seems pretty pointless. Cheapy did not do a good job in selling it. I wear a Timex Ironman like Wombat, and it serves its purpose just fine. I also have yet to drop a phone, and I don't really understand why some people find it so easy to. Just... be more careful in taking it out.

As for PA's Kickstarter, it's abhorrent, but I don't really care. I don't visit PA at all, nor will I listen to their podcast. I agree that it sounds like they should just sell their podcast on an episode basis.
 
[quote name='kupomogli']Cheapy, Wombat, Shipwreck. If you wanted to see how much you could get through Kickstarter. You could make an unrealistic amount like one trillion dollars for it to be funded and make mention that you just want to see how much you could make.[/QUOTE]

Make the $500,000 goal be "Have the hosts refer to each other as Dave, Stew and Bob."
 
[quote name='Jasper Kazai']I'm with Wombat and Shipwreck: that Pebble watch seems pretty pointless. Cheapy did not do a good job in selling it. I wear a Timex Ironman like Wombat, and it serves its purpose just fine. I also have yet to drop a phone, and I don't really understand why some people find it so easy to. Just... be more careful in taking it out.
[/QUOTE]

But the Pebble Watch works Inside AND Outside!!!
 
[quote name='skadave']Did Wombat really say "Scary as Get Out" ?

What are you a sassy middle aged housewife?[/QUOTE]

Kiss my grits!
 
Just finished listening here.

I have a buddy that went in on, one of those smart watches kickstarters. He thought it was the coolest thing...........For 1 day, haven't heard him talk about it or wear it since.

I'm going to listen to Wombat's other cast now to check it out.

As always though, good stuff.
 
Over $58,000 now.

I could explain it further. But there's no point. These are terrible people. And Kickstarter is terrible for being for-profit and allowing it. In the words of the Dude.
xkhUFd5.jpg
 
Thank you guys for keep the 'cast free! It is the only podcast I listen to other than Uninformed Opinions.

Congrats on 10 years! I thought you were going to start crying during your speech :lol:
 
@Wombat

another great show...I also just listened to ign's spoilercast and they also brought up the fact that it was weird that the avengers weren't mentioned more...They brought up the fact that the iron patriot looks a lot like the captain america costume lol...I also thought iron man 2 was slightly better...maybe its because it was more iron man than tony idk...
 
[quote name='testudo']So Wombat were going put ads in The Warriors game? Isn't that a bit anachronistic?
[/QUOTE]
I would assume they would have used period billboard ads.

In case in wasn't clear from the cagcast, Iron Sky is primarily in English with a few sections toward the beginning in German with English subtitles. And the movie is awesome, it is a dumb movie that knows it is a B-movie, but is is just so much fun. It is set in the near future (not the present. I think it is on Netflix instant watch so it doesn't cost anything to check it out. It's from the same people who did the parody "Star Wreck" if you've ever heard of it.
Here's the Iron Sky Trailer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=He_PWsJqsVY

Blood Dragon isn't really THAT revolutionary. It is only one step further than retail releases like Infamous: Festival of Blood and Red Dead: Undead Nightmare (by having a new protagonist instead).
 
Great show as usual. Some random thoughts:

- I initially felt the same about IM3 not even having so much as a SHIELD agent in it, but got over it. As was mentioned, this is a thing in comics...the reader just assumes other heroes have problems of their own.

And there was the throwaway line early in the movie that the US Gov't wanted to keep the problem "in house", and that's why they put Iron Patriot front and center.

In recent interviews Kevin Feige has specifically said that in order to help prevent franchise fatigue, they want to try to keep the heroes separate except for Avengers.

However I do think there will be a little more crossover in the other properties until they can prove they can reach the popularity of the IM franchise.

- Does anyone pay for a podcast? I've never searched itunes to see if any of them aren't free. If there is I would never pay for a podcast. So I'm not sure that's a feasible option. If you need money for your 'cast do what everyone else does and get a sponsor.

- The PA podcast kickstarter is pretty disgusting. But I don't know if it's fair to make it sound like they have plenty of free time and that it should be easy to just shit out a podcast every week.

From what has been discussed during their last KS, it's not just the two guys running PA. They have a staff.

They have to run the site, crank out comics, organize and front two PAX shows a year, and who knows what else.

Again- doing a kickstarter for a podcast is repulsive. But I thought I'd play devils advocate. Maybe doing a 'cast isn't as easy a time investment for them as we assume it to be.
 
[quote name='skadave']But the Pebble Watch works Inside AND Outside!!![/QUOTE]

That part was hilarious.
 
Don't you three DARE drop the handles! I can't imagine the disconnect of hearing your banal real names in this context. I mean, it's not like...I still imagine animated versions of your avatars doing the talking...or anything....
 
[quote name='ZombieJeebus']- Does anyone pay for a podcast? I've never searched itunes to see if any of them aren't free. If there is I would never pay for a podcast. So I'm not sure that's a feasible option. If you need money for your 'cast do what everyone else does and get a sponsor.[/QUOTE]
I do not pay personally, but yes, there are podcasts that charge. Well, I'm not sure if there is a podcast that charges for every ep, but I follow a couple of podcasts that charge maybe $1-3 for certain eps, i.e. a special feature of some sorts. (I just skip those myself, though.)

The handles are fine. ScrewAttack's Stuttering Craig is a semi-handle, and he still uses it, but it isn't as front-and-center as it once was. The whole ScrewAttack crew used to use nicknames, but they've kind of fallen to the wayside now.
I have a group of online friends that I've known for about 8 years now, and even though we all know each other's real names, we still refer to one another as our online names since it's just more natural.

This is a moot point, but I think Wombat mistook the end of the Saint's Row IV question (the guy saying he just isn't interested) as Cheapy's opinion, which it wasn't. I just felt like pointing that out.
 
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I'd back a CAG kickstarter in a second. Years of free podcasts, hundreds of dollars in savings, and a free live cheap bracelet? That's worth something.
 
Good show, good discussion as usual, very entertaining. Was I the only person yelling "ITS THE WARRIORS!" at my iPod during the advertising segment?

I rate this podcast 8.5/10; would download again A+++.
 
Hey guys, I think internet friends referring to each other by their screen names is a lot more common than Wombat made it sound. Calling someone by their real name when I haven't met the person just seems too...formal, I guess? I know I do that among most of the people I know in the internet.
 
Interesting talk on the use of screen names. I'll relate my little experience. My first real life meeting with Cheapy (and Shipwreck and Mrs. Shipwreck) happened last year at PAX. Me and my son actually ran into them on the street the evening before the convention. Cheapy being the big-time Internet celeb that he is, I recognized him right away. But to make sure, when I introduced myself, I addressed him as Cheapy - that just seemed like the right thing to do. It would have felt odd calling him Dave or David. Same with Ship. On the other hand, I would feel odd calling Mrs. Shipwreck "Mrs. Shipwreck". But that just might be because she was not nearly as much of a forum regular as the other two. I would have no problem calling the other guy "Wombat" (haven't met him though).

And I say all this as someone who is a bit older and finds the ideas of Internet "handles" themselves very strange (and yet a necessary evil to maintain some level of privacy). However, I guess over many years of being on CAG I've gotten used to them. Though I would find it extremely odd if anyone ever called me "Io" in person. That is the name of my (now deceased) cat by the way... Yeah, I couldn't think of anything better when I signed up oh so many years ago ;).
 
I agree that the Penny Arcade Kickstarter comes across as incredibly tacky and gross, especially given the success that they have enjoyed. The biggest problem with it (aside from the obvious one of asking for money to do a podcast) is that they're using the Kickstarter platform as their personal subscription service, which I really believe goes against the spirit of Kickstarter, even if it turns out to not technically be against the rules.

Many may not remember, but when Penny Arcade originally started their "Downloadable Content" podcast back in March 2006 they made a not-too-subtle jab at Tim Buckley (of Ctrl+Alt+Del) for charging a subscription fee for his extra content package "CAD Premium." Mike Krahulik (Gabe) then goes on to explain how simple it is to do their podcast: "We’re putting it out there to gauge interest. Would you guys like to get one of these a week? I mean, we’re writing the strip anyway, it’s not hard to turn the mic on."

The hypocrisy is simply delicious.

Linky...
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2006/03/20/downloadable-content
 
The sad thing about the PA thing is that it isn't even the most egregious example of violating the spirit of Kickstarter. What really chaps my hide are the ones where celebrities start one to fund their Hollywood movies, like the Veronica Mars or Zach Braff ones. These people aren't starving artists. I certainly understand the desire to have creative control over your product, but the fact is they have access to funds that smaller guys don't, and like you guys said, it becomes more of a marketing ploy than a creative endeavor.
 
Wombat was pretty spot-on in saying how gross it was that PA set the donation goal to $10, simply because no matter how much money they got the thing was technically funded, and therefore they got to keep all of the money regardless of what they choose to do with it.

The entire debacle is atrocious and clearly shows just how easily exploitable the kickstarter system can be. The entire kickstarter page reads like a pretentious jerk saying "I could do everything here for free, but let me see how much money you suckers will give me."

What PA should be doing with that money is using it to fund projects that are struggling and could use the bump instead. Of course, they won't, because then how would they be able to fund PAX Australia?
 
[quote name='polly']I agree that the Penny Arcade Kickstarter comes across as incredibly tacky and gross, especially given the success that they have enjoyed. The biggest problem with it (aside from the obvious one of asking for money to do a podcast) is that they're using the Kickstarter platform as their personal subscription service, which I really believe goes against the spirit of Kickstarter, even if it turns out to not technically be against the rules.

Many may not remember, but when Penny Arcade originally started their "Downloadable Content" podcast back in March 2006 they made a not-too-subtle jab at Tim Buckley (of Ctrl+Alt+Del) for charging a subscription fee for his extra content package "CAD Premium." Mike Krahulik (Gabe) then goes on to explain how simple it is to do their podcast: "We’re putting it out there to gauge interest. Would you guys like to get one of these a week? I mean, we’re writing the strip anyway, it’s not hard to turn the mic on."

The hypocrisy is simply delicious.

Linky...
http://www.penny-arcade.com/2006/03/20/downloadable-content
[/QUOTE]

Exactly
 
I guess I'm not falling in line with all of the opposition to paying PA for their podcast.

1) I never give those guys any money: I have never clicked an ad on their site, bought any of their merch nor participated in the community. Maybe for someone else like me this is just a way to give those guys some money.

2) I have enjoyed PA entertainment for over a decade: to get 3 comics and commentary on the industry for ~13 years I think I've gotten a lot for my money, which is great.

3) I would gladly pay for every podcast I listen to: BUT I don't want to pay for them on iTunes. Not everyone uses iTunes for podcasts.

4) This podcast is only pay now for backers only downloads: They're going to charge "pay what you want" for episodes (two weeks later), no indication has been made as to if this will be "pay nothing" if'n you want, but it might just be free anyway.

Ultimately I think that asking for money is not that bad; just don't pay. But I have a feeling that if I "kickstarted" this project I would have more to show for my money than a couple of other projects I've backed. IronBuds I'm looking at you...
 
I think one thing kickstarter should do is put a cap on the amount of money you can take in. If you want $50,000, then $50K is what you will get (Nothing More Nothing Less). If you put your amount at $10, that's what you'll get.

This would eliminate 2 things. . . (1) People can't lowball to eliminate the risk of not reaching their goal and (2) People asking to $10,000 won't get a bajjillion dollars if there is an insane interest (Kickstarter shouldn't be the equivalent of winning the lottery). I seriously doubt Kickstarter would do this since they benefit financially from all of this crap as well.
 
[quote name='skadave']I think one thing kickstarter should do is put a cap on the amount of money you can take in. If you want $50,000, then $50K is what you will get (Nothing More Nothing Less). If you put your amount at $10, that's what you'll get.

This would eliminate 2 things. . . (1) People can't lowball to eliminate the risk of not reaching their goal and (2) People asking to $10,000 won't get a bajjillion dollars if there is an insane interest (Kickstarter shouldn't be the equivalent of winning the lottery). I seriously doubt Kickstarter would do this since they benefit financially from all of this crap as well.[/QUOTE]

That's not necessarily a bad idea, but then stretch goals are no longer possible, at least in the way that they exist currently.
 
[quote name='The Great BM']The sad thing about the PA thing is that it isn't even the most egregious example of violating the spirit of Kickstarter. What really chaps my hide are the ones where celebrities start one to fund their Hollywood movies, like the Veronica Mars or Zach Braff ones. These people aren't starving artists. I certainly understand the desire to have creative control over your product, but the fact is they have access to funds that smaller guys don't, and like you guys said, it becomes more of a marketing ploy than a creative endeavor.[/QUOTE]

The purpose of kickstarter is funding. Veronica Mars and Wish I Was Here appeared on kickstarter for crowd sourcing so they might get funded. The celebrity status and wealth of Zach Braff and Kristen Bell does not change that fact. Certainly they could have chosen alternative, more traditional methods, but they chose crowd sourcing.

The Penny Arcade podcast kickstarter isn't funding anything. Which is why it does not compare to Veronica Mars or Wish I Was Here, and also why it does not belong on kickstarter.
 
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