CAGcast #326: STRING

[quote name='S0LIDARITY']I thought that Cheapy's sex-exchange analogy for Microsoft/Sony and their customers would be the most confusing moment of the show. Then I heard the hacking into the Xbox One's XBL platform discussion. Maybe Super Programmer John can give some thoughts on the security feasibility. I do appreciate the Mission Impossible jokes, but I suspect that XBL security is a point of pride for Microsoft even if they're not marketing it.

Fun episode as always.[/QUOTE]


Jesus H I almost crashed my vehicle when Cheapy mentioned Sony being nice enough to give out hand-jobs! KUDOS!!!!
 
I hate to be 'that guy' and I apologize in advance, but for all the complaints with the Souls series, the only remedy is to be better. I just recently got the 1000 on the PC version to go with my 360 1000 and PS3 platinum. I'm a veteran souls player, and it only took me three days. Once you get it down and know what you're doing, it's not a big deal. It can be hard to get over the initial hump of learning the game, though. I actually gave up on my first time playing it (It was entirely my fault. My strategy was all wrong: I focused on leveling up, which is not very important at all, and I didn't make use of upgrading my equipment). I'm just happy I went back to try again. Also make sure you play co-op. It makes it way, way easier, and you really want that boost when you're brand new and don't know what the hell you're doing.

My point is, ideally, you're not grinding, nor are you replaying sections over and over. If you are, you are doing something wrong. Change your equipment (makes the biggest difference in the game), don't focus on levels--unless it's to get a certain attribute high enough for equipment that you want to use--and make sure you play co-op when first learning. Also, the stuff about restarting to be a different class is a load of crap. It only takes a few levels to even any of the starting classes out to be identical, and all the starting gear can be acquired without too much difficulty.
 
It has to be said for people that may not be aware of this. Most of the media companies feel that you buy a license and the fact its on a disc is irrelevant to them.

So if you are a company that takes this stance, of course you will do something to have used games be less viable. The crap about Microsoft being evil and Sony "listening" is pure pimply faced teenage fanboy talk. If the infrastructure was in place by now, there would be no physical media to deal with, but The United States in a LONG way from having this happen.

The angry reaction is mostly from people who just like to be angry for the sake of anger.
 
[quote name='lowgear26']It has to be said for people that may not be aware of this. Most of the media companies feel that you buy a license and the fact its on a disc is irrelevant to them.

So if you are a company that takes this stance, of course you will do something to have used games be less viable. The crap about Microsoft being evil and Sony "listening" is pure pimply faced teenage fanboy talk. If the infrastructure was in place by now, there would be no physical media to deal with, but The United States in a LONG way from having this happen.

The angry reaction is mostly from people who just like to be angry for the sake of anger.[/QUOTE]

Or from people who currently take advantage of, and rely on, the current physical media based ecosystem? It's crap to just dismiss complaints due to fanboyism. Sure, there is some of that, but being essentially unable to buy and sell used games on a console would be really shitty for a lot of people. Don't let the tards make you lose sight of the actual issue at hand.
 
I'm pretty sure that the "Xbox ecosystem" is referring to Xbox 360 and XBLA games, not music and movies.

Fuse is the name of the alien substance that the evil corporation in the game is hoping to use to take over the world.

The closest BB in Ohio with Wii U stuff to Shipwreck is by Dayton. I'm surprised you guys didn't criticize the hours that the demos are available, which is four hours on 5/12 and four hours on 5/15.
 
[quote name='lowgear26']
The angry reaction is mostly from people who just like to be angry for the sake of anger.[/QUOTE]

Not quite. Games have always been 1s and 0s and consumers have always been able to buy/sell/trade/lend to our heart's content. Only now that we're entering the digital age is it a "license" and not an actual product. If I buy a a digital movie I'm free to put it on multiple devices, and *gasp* even sell the physical copy it came with. The horror!

No matter how you slice it, consumers have rights and the gaming industry is intent on taking those rights away.

If you are fine giving up your rights as a consumer, more power to you, but some of us don't want to sit idly by while it happens.

It has nothing to do with fanboyism and everything to do with MS trying to change the way gaming has been for the past 35 years.
 
I said mostly fanboyism. Don't confuse that with everyone.

There are real concerns here, but look at the anger, it's based on rumour and speculation which people go crazy over. Microsoft is doing a terrible job communicating this issue with the consumer but I really think they will run with this as far as they can go. Think about it, all this free attention they are getting, whether good or bad, is making people talk about the console. They can always model what they do based on the reaction and get free publicity all said and done.

I think this will hurt the industry in a major way if they attack the consumers. The people will speak with their wallets and most people who don't flame on boards about how evil this is, will wait until the official policy is there until we buy our pitchforks and torches.
 
[quote name='Corvin']Not quite. Games have always been 1s and 0s and consumers have always been able to buy/sell/trade/lend to our heart's content. Only now that we're entering the digital age is it a "license" and not an actual product. If I buy a a digital movie I'm free to put it on multiple devices, and *gasp* even sell the physical copy it came with. The horror![/QUOTE]
I have a number of digital copies that came with Blu-rays and none of them are transferable to my Nexus 7. They're stuck on the PC unless I want to find a way to break the encryption so it's as portable as they claim it is.
 
[quote name='Corvin']

And? These guys aren't any different from you and me. They aren't getting paid to be objective. They have their favorites just like you or I.[/QUOTE]

Is that so
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']I have a number of digital copies that came with Blu-rays and none of them are transferable to my Nexus 7. They're stuck on the PC unless I want to find a way to break the encryption so it's as portable as they claim it is.[/QUOTE]

I had my harddrive crash and lost almost every movie from the Itunes redeem codes that came with my Blurays. Apple could only restore a couple.
 
[quote name='RaiderFan999']Thanks for the Dark Souls discussion. I was just about to buy it on the XBL sale, but after hearing how truly painful it can be (like Wombat, i love Skyrim but don't have the patience for such extensive grinding and dying).

Thanks for saving me $5.[/QUOTE]
"Getting Dark Souls All Wrong"
[...]It was a combination of elements that made it easy for me to shelve my copy: the continuous discussion of its incredible difficulty and the "if you don't like it, you don't get it" attitude from fanatics. I never planned to play Dark Souls again...
Click to expand...
 
Cheap has been known to be a Xbox fanboi for a long time but over the last few days of him defending them so much is really awful. This was most noticeable when he went to the 8-4 podcast and acted like a MS rep, deflecting and giving answers that MS isn't evil, would never do this or that and everyone who doesn't buy one isn't correct.

I mean come on.. Anyways..

I will not be buying a Xbox with there recent discovery of the system now. I also do NOT want to be behind another pay wall this generation to play online. They never did mention you CAN'T do any of those dumb TV apps/skype without paying $60.00 a year for Gold.

Right now Xbone has no exclusive I care about or should most people that are using as a defense.

"DudeBro" games, no more GoW please, no more Halo please and god forbid stop with the unfun Forza games.

Hopefully the 15 "exclusive" games they will show at E3 aren't 11/15 Kinect garbage games. yes Ps Eye is garbage too, Thanks goto Wii for this shit tech.

Final note, game consoles need to be game consoles 1st, stop pushing non gaming shit on them to us. I have million other devices doing things already or use my HTPC.

My breakdown on prices:

Xbone system $449 w/Live Gold for 1 year signup or $349 w/2 year signup
Xbone Controllers $59.99
Xbone 750GB External HDD $149.99
 
Jason here, long time listener, first time commentor....er.

Great show as Always, but Cheapy, I think your obvious bias towards X-Box is starting to really show. Especially in the 8-4 Play podcast where you practically sounded like a Microsoft exec. When I hear your "level headed" argument, I can practically see the "Go Team X-Box!" rallying flags being waved in the air.

Not only that, in this episode you even mention how the anti-consumerism of the X-Box one could actually affect you in a bad way (if no more cheap games, no more cheap-ass gamer) and yet, you keep saying "wait until E3". THIS IS WAY MORE THAN ABOUT GAMES! This is about our right slowly being taken away as consumers. This is about our privacy being affected with a "Hall-9000" Kinect that can see waaay too much. This is about my ability to trade in used games I've completed towards new games. If I can't rent or trade in games, I'll be forced to buy a lot less new ones.

Also, your ridiculous "Sony's doing the exact same thing" argument is invalid. Maybe they are doing the same thing, maybe not. They never came out and said anything about how used games will be run on their system. As far as "always online" goes.......

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=572949

That's them flat out saying that since online doesn't work in some regions, online won't a requirement for single player games.

Y'know what though? It's okay to be a bit biased. It's normal. You like the 360 controller. It's a great controller and the XB1 controller looks even better. You probably like thier IP's like Forzda too. That's fine. I like LIVE'S Arcade games, I love the controller, I'm excited for the Halo TV show, but I've gone through five 360's and a GOLD service that's basically blackmail for Netflix and online play while Sony's Plus service give me free games and discounts. This effected my stance on X-Box as a quality product. I also like Sony's IP's better even if their controller isn't as good. Hell, I love the Miiverse on the WiiU because it's a great way to get help on tough games like Monster Hunter, I get lot's of "yeahs" from my funny drawings and as a shy person, I don't like doing voice chat often because of LIVE'S foul-mouthed players.

It's PS4 this coming generation for me. I've got my bias's, you've got yours. Be honest about it.

P.S. Shipwreck and Wombat Disney Infinite vs. New Skylanders. Which are you going for?
 
I love that Cheapy's alleged Xbox bias is telling people to be patient and wait until we know everything. If you do not rush to judgement then clearly you are a fanboy...strange how the internet works.

It is odd that people thing that just now people are going start trying to hack Microsoft. People are attempting to hack into Microsoft everyday. I think that is one of the reason they have improved their security so much over the last ten years.
 
Most people are referencing the 8-4 podcast as evidence of Cheapy's xbox bias.... I for one am happy he's biased towards microsoft because it means we know where he stands. I don't need people pretending they're not biased in some form or another. As for me, I have a 360, but I'm not sold on the CrossBone yet, even if I think Forza is the greatest racing franchise of this generation (suck it EA).

Actually, I'm not buying either system, not at launch and not for the first year minimum. I hear the guys in the podcast saying all the complainers will be there in line on release night, but I just don't see the demand with anyone I talk to. If they're releasing these systems as close to the holiday shopping season as I think, then I wouldn't be able to buy one without wrecking my holiday budget anyway.

I did have a question for you guys; Do you think were are any games in development for current gen systems that were suddenly made exclusive to next gen systems. I know it doesn't make sense to essentially lose all that time invested, but might they do something like that to help with next gen console sales? As in, to get people off the fence.
 
[quote name='DS9']

Final note, game consoles need to be game consoles 1st, stop pushing non gaming shit on them to us. I have million other devices doing things already or use my HTPC.

[/QUOTE]

Those days are gone. The quicker you come to terms with this, the better you will feel come next gen. Everything will have apps, microtransactions, rentals and all sorts of other wonderful things that aren't games.
 
[quote name='Tankcore']Most people are referencing the 8-4 podcast as evidence of Cheapy's xbox bias.... I for one am happy he's biased towards microsoft because it means we know where he stands. I don't need people pretending they're not biased in some form or another. As for me, I have a 360, but I'm not sold on the CrossBone yet, even if I think Forza is the greatest racing franchise of this generation (suck it EA).
[/QUOTE]

I don't have a problem with him being biased, I just want him to be honest about it. I can listen to PS Nation or GoNintendo and still enjoy listening to their opinions on games because I already know where they stand on games. Hell, GoNintendo constantly talks about the latest PS3 games they've been playing. Cheapy said he prefers playing games on his 360 because of the controller and that's cool. I have no problem with that. Just come clean.

I do have a question for Cheapy though. If everything the MS execs are saying ( and then going back on) end up true at E3, but Sony's PS4 ends up having no DRM and can play used games, would you take a PS4 over an XB1 or is it too tempting to stay with your favorite IP's?
 
It never ceases to amaze me how preoccupied the gaming community is with bias and preference. And usually confusing the two.
 
[quote name='Iron Angel']I find it fascinating that saying "We don't know yet, we will have to see which one is better" makes you a Xbox fanboy.[/QUOTE]

"We don't know yet. It's going to be a long time before the system comes out. I play 90% of my games on the PC anyway." Clearly statements made by an Xbox fanboy. God. Gamers are so fucking childish.
 
What does it matter if Cheaply does have a preference towards the Xbox? He's only one out of three hosts on this show, with Shipwreck pretty much playing on everything. Besides, as stated above, Cheapy plays most everything on the PC these days.
 
The Xbox One discussion was painful to listen to. Bunch of jumbled logic being thrown all over the place. Everyone was presenting multiple lines of evidence that led in completely different directions.

* Cheapy was basically saying people will buy it anyway and the focus on TV in the conference shouldn't bother anyone. This is a personal argument made to core gamers, which is obviously ludicrous. After all, not all core gamers own both systems this console generation and they've had 5+ years to pick them up. So yes, people will be making a decision between the two. We will not just buy both and the whole waiting thing made no sense. Obviously I can have my mind changed at E3, but what you're saying is "don't think anything and communicate it between now and then?"

* Shipwreck was saying third party games will be on all platforms so Xbox One will be ok no matter what. This was an argument that merely supports the idea that you don't actually NEED to choose Xbox One to experience the same games for the most part. This logic is baffling, it's like saying "they're all equal, therefore Microsoft is good." And it discounts the importance of exclusives. "Indie games don't sell all that much" -- selling much is supposed to matter to me as a gamer? The only time the popularity of a product should matter to the player is when you need people to do multiplayer with.

* Wombat was saying the mainstream audience is all Microsoft needs to win to be financially successful. This is true, but means jack shit to any core gamer who isn't a Microsoft fanboy. I don't care if Microsoft is financially successful, I care if they're catering to me. Maybe they don't need me, OK, how is that supposed to convince me to buy an Xbox One?

This was nearly as bad as last week's inability to read tech specs and know that GGDDR5 is way stronger than DDR3 (anyone who owns a PC should know this). That was embarrassing to listen to..

There's nothing wrong with having a preference, the problem is when you let it affect your ability to analyze facts. I like the show, but it's becoming hard to listen to segments like this that are so clearly coming from a strong, preferential point of view.
 
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What's ironic is that cheapy goes from being the King of snarky comments (against Sony) and now when people are displeased with Microsoft he becomes the voice of reason (With no snarky comments), I guess he's matured right before our very eyes.
 
[quote name='Das_Regal']

* Wombat was saying the mainstream audience is all Microsoft needs to win to be financially successful. This is true, but means jack shit to any core gamer who isn't a Microsoft fanboy. I don't care if Microsoft is financially successful, I care if they're catering to me. Maybe they don't need me, OK, how is that supposed to convince me to buy an Xbox One?

.[/QUOTE]

I wasn't trying to convince you to do anything. I think you missed the point.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']What's ironic is that cheapy goes from being the King of snarky comments (against Sony) and now when people are displeased with Microsoft he becomes the voice of reason (With no snarky comments), I guess he's matured right before our very eyes.[/QUOTE]

That was kind of funny.


He did go a bit overboard there. I guess he felt he had to match one extreme with another.

But it is funny that I don't recall Mr Reasonable and Rational ever coming to the defense of Nintendo's platforms by saying the 3ds will be ok once it gets games and the price drops or the Wii U will look much better a year from now as the games pile up and its price drops some. Afaik Mr. R & R leaves the building in those cases. And Mr. Snarky enters. ;). I kid. I kid.

We all do have our preferences.
 
[quote name='Das_Regal']
* Wombat was saying the mainstream audience is all Microsoft needs to win to be financially successful. [/QUOTE]

That's a flawed strategy though. The mainstream isn't going to buy this on day 1. They don't usually buy in until the first price drop (so a year or so). So until then, what does MS have if they shun the core crowd that are typically early adopters and drive up the attach rate?
 
[quote name='Wombat']I wasn't trying to convince you to do anything. I think you missed the point.[/QUOTE]The topic of discussion was complaining about people complaining about the Xbox One. The people complaining about the Xbox One were complaining because it wasn't what they want. Your response was basically, "Well what you want doesn't matter, Microsoft can succeed without you." This may be true and seems like a reasonable enough assertion, but while you're discussing that, the others on the Cagcast were talking about why those people shouldn't dislike it (Ship's answer is that it'll have third party stuff, Cheapy did a whole mental gymnastics routine).

That's my point, you guys were all talking about different things at once. Business viability vs what core gamers should think vs etc.

Lack of overall coherence.

One thing that confuses me: why you felt the need to tell your audience of core gamers "they've got the dudebro, they don't need you" -- as if we're more concerned about Microsoft's financial success than what's good for core gaming.

BTW: I think you guys are all unqualified to judge Microsoft's most recent products because, as far as I'm aware, none of you own Windows 8. If you want to see missteps and broken promises, look no further than the Win 8 store.
 
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@Wombat - Beavercreek Ohio Best Buy is actually a huge one - it's in a great location because there's a college (my Alma Mater ) 30 seconds away.
 
I had to set up and configure a Windows 8 laptop for a non tech-savvy user over the past week and it was a nightmare. Hopefully Windows 8.1 will fix a lot of the awful design decisions Microsoft originally made with their new OS.
 
[quote name='spid']I love that Cheapy's alleged Xbox bias is telling people to be patient and wait until we know everything. If you do not rush to judgement then clearly you are a fanboy...strange how the internet works.[/QUOTE]


Be patient and wait for E3 for Microsoft. But Sony who hasn't admitted to the used game fees? Clearly they are doing the same thing. No need to wait until E3 according to Cheapy when it comes to Sony explaining their potential used game stance. Nope. Cut and dry there as opposed to Microsoft who HAVE had people come out and talk about the things people are pissed off about. Nope, those are misunderstandings that will be cleared up at E3.

That's just one example. It's not hard to see the bias, especially having listened to them for years.
 
Even with the new consoles Cheapy is still going to use his gaming PC 99% of the time.  The remaining 1% will be for the 360 and all that Rockband 3 content that won't transfer over to the XBox One.

 
If you want to talk about bias, I was at a Gamestop today and the Gamestop employee was telling 2 customers to not buy the Xbox One because Kinect 2 will take a picture of your room without permission and upload it to Microsoft, and that Sony was the way to go because of that.

LOL.

 
Hey Cheapy/Wombat,

What is a good list to start watching the DC animated cartoons you guys rave over? Also what is best place to find them? Do streaming sites have them? Thanks
 
firstadopter said:
If you want to talk about bias, I was at a Gamestop today and the Gamestop employee was telling 2 customers to not buy the Xbox One because Kinect 2 will take a picture of your room without permission and upload it to Microsoft, and that Sony was the way to go because of that.

LOL.
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It was never deconfirmed though :whee:

 
I love shipwreak asking wombat about his dark souls purchase!

"how are them controls?"

and

"You bought it becuase you like Skyrim, right?"

I can tell shipwreak spends alot of time thinking about the audience for games and profiled wombat perfectly.

Great, Great, Great!

 
shadowofthetoaster said:
new podcast today? :D
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I'm guessing there isn't one this week because of the CAG 3.0 rollout and E3 coming next week (and thus all 3 of the hosts getting ready to travel, etc). But of course one of them can better answer that more definitively than me ;).

 
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  Someone on the latest CAGcast mentioned "What will happen in 10 years" speaking of games being playable on the XBox 1 after they eventually pull server support for it. I'm guessing when the system gets to it's closeing year they would release a new dash, firmware or patch that drops the need to logon every 24 hours. Basically freeing the need for this connection to play single player games.

  This makes me wonder if this would be an option for them if they see the system is tanking and they suspect the "always on" feature or other DRM features are the reason for it. The 360 has changed more than any other system since launch and it's that reason that I belive that they will probably have the power to implement or back out of many of these questionable descisions.

  Keep up the good work guys and I was also wondering if Kings of Steel was still keeping Shipwreck entertained.

 
GOTA said:
Even with the new consoles Cheapy is still going to use his gaming PC 99% of the time. The remaining 1% will be for the 360 and all that Rockband 3 content that won't transfer over to the XBox One.
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Oh yeah, good point. From listening to the CAGcast it seems pretty obvious that Cheapy hates having lots of consoles and equipment in his living room... Cheapy, will you keep the 360 out to play Rockband 3 or just give up on that game and stuff the 360 in a closet with your Kinect, 3DS, etc?

 
4thHorseman said:
spid said:
I love that Cheapy's alleged Xbox bias is telling people to be patient and wait until we know everything. If you do not rush to judgement then clearly you are a fanboy...strange how the internet works.
Click to expand...

Be patient and wait for E3 for Microsoft. But Sony who hasn't admitted to the used game fees? Clearly they are doing the same thing. No need to wait until E3 according to Cheapy when it comes to Sony explaining their potential used game stance. Nope. Cut and dry there as opposed to Microsoft who HAVE had people come out and talk about the things people are pissed off about. Nope, those are misunderstandings that will be cleared up at E3.

That's just one example. It's not hard to see the bias, especially having listened to them for years.
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With the news that sony has no restriction on used games, this post is so perfect.

Especially since cheapy was on his high horse all podcast, saying that all other gamers where wrong and basically whiners and fools to have faith in Sony.

Other than pricing the console at $199 or locking up something like madden as an exclusive, what can MS do to save the 361.

 
I guess your days of constant Microsoft rim-jobbing are finally coming to an end, huh Cheapy? I've been following E3 since 2005, and this was by far the most satisfying one yet. Final Fantasy XV (a.k.a. Versus XIII), Kingdom Hearts III, and Microsoft getting completely destroyed like you wouldn't believe. Oh, sweet fucking justice. I'm creaming my pants right now.

 
Alright, question: is nobody remotely concerned about kinect? Always on, facial recognition, voice recognition, being able to tell if you're in the room, how many people are in the room, heartbeat, can't be turned off, uploads data every 24 hours?

And see, the thing is is it might sound crazy and paranoid to think someone might be reviewing what itsmpicking up. Except, I just read this other story about the NSA mining allnphone, data, and text info from Verizon. Its called PRISM. And Microsoft was forced to give up info as well.

I mean, ok, so knowing the govt is going after microsoft specifically for their data on customers, you're telling me NO ONE is concerned with putting a video recorder in their living room from the same company?

I mean, cheapy can kinda be a sycophantic db, but even he must stop and think about this. Although, I suppose it's not that hard to see him say, "dude, if you wanna watch me and my kid eat cheerios that's fine, hahaha", but wombat and shipwreck, no way, right? I can't be alone here.
 
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