It was coming sooner or later. I just got done reading this article on Marvel's website and I guess they're bringing the real Cap (Steve Rogers) back. They don't go into many details about how he's still alive only that he is.
When all the media outlets covered the story of Cap's Death I was thinking, don't they know comic book characters never really die? I didn't think Marvel would revive him this soon but I knew it was coming. The only character I can think of that's died and stayed dead for decades is Unlce Ben.
My first thought when I saw this was... how many people who don't read comic books knew that Captain America was "dead"? I know it got a lot of attention when it happened, but how many non-comics type people remember that anymore? And for comic book reading people, this isn't exactly news... Ed Brubaker (the current writer of Captain America) was attached to a July project called "Reborn" (which is now officially called Captain America: Reborn), and everyone and their brother assumed he was bringing back Steve. All of that said, I love the book (and although I like "Bucky Cap", I trust Brubaker not to mess up the return of Steve Rogers); I just don't understand Marvel's strategy with the press release to news agencies, etc.
[quote name='DAWG26']Im sorry did you say Bucky? I thought he WAS the ONE chracter that stays dead.[/QUOTE]
He's been alive for a few years now. When he "died" on that plane with the bomb on it he actually lost his arm and instead drifted to Russia where he was brainwashed and given a cybernetic arm and became their personal assassin known as the Winter Soldier. It wasn't until Cap used the cosmic cube tht Bucky regained his memories and Cap's last wishes before his death were for Bucky to take the mantle.
[quote name='bardockkun']Honestly, I've already warmed up to Bucky as Cap. So I hope they put off on the whole Steve Rogers revival for another year or so.[/QUOTE]
I'm with ya. I really like Bucky Cap. While I'd like to see Steve eventually return I also think it's too soon. Bucky barely got his feet wet.
I always tought the Red Hulk would turn out to be Uncle Ben.
[quote name='Rodimus']I
I always tought the Red Hulk would turn out to be Uncle Ben.[/QUOTE]
It wouldn't make the current storyline any less stupider that's for sure.
It makes it difficult because there is no danger. A character dies, there is no drama because you are just counting down the says until they come back. A comic cannot kill of main characters because that is killing off revenue. Makes it hard to read because the stories really never go anywhere. I used to buy 10 comics a week right up until the civil war ended, it was getting so good until they took the cheap way out. Meh!
[quote name='Lice']It makes it difficult because there is no danger. A character dies, there is no drama because you are just counting down the says until they come back. A comic cannot kill of main characters because that is killing off revenue. Makes it hard to read because the stories really never go anywhere. I used to buy 10 comics a week right up until the civil war ended, it was getting so good until they took the cheap way out. Meh![/QUOTE]
That's why Robert Kirkman comics are soooo good.
[quote name='Lice']Can you expand on that? You intrigued me![/QUOTE]
If you really want to get into comics again read ANY of his creator owned stuff at Image. Specifically Walking Dead, Invincible and Astounding Wolfman. Each of them are heavy on characterization, action, good amounts of blood and great artists on each of those respective books. Plus since it's his own creator made characters; main characters in those books have gotten killed and mamed and each time they do it packs quite the literary punch because he does build them up only to unexpectedly take them away (or physically/mentally scar).
Also Walking Dead is one of the best zombie anything I've seen or read and it plays like a zombie epic that never ends. Plus Invincible is basically written for people who grew up reading early Stan Lee written Spider-man, but want something more "adult" oriented now. It strikes the right balance of light hearted humor and teen angst mixed with a serious threat that isn't taken lightly. As for Astounding Wolfman, it's little over a year old, but it's off to a good start and it does have a twist by around issue 7 or so that changes the status quo and it continues to reveal layers of story. So I really want to say give those books a shot.
Honestly, I thought they were going to leave him dead until the movie got closer, but I'm not surprised: they were setting up his return even before they killed him off (his weird issues with his memory, like when he goes back to visit Baron Zemo's castle, for example, and gets the location of the island wrong).
[quote name='bardockkun']If you really want to get into comics again read ANY of his creator owned stuff at Image. Specifically Walking Dead, Invincible and Astounding Wolfman. Each of them are heavy on characterization, action, good amounts of blood and great artists on each of those respective books. Plus since it's his own creator made characters; main characters in those books have gotten killed and mamed and each time they do it packs quite the literary punch because he does build them up only to unexpectedly take them away (or physically/mentally scar).[/QUOTE]
Agreed, but you didn't mention Savage Dragon, which definitely deserves a name check in this regard. It is pretty much the book that set the standard (at least in the Image universe) for the "HOLY SHIT, THEY KILLED THAT CHARACTER?"-level surprises that don't get retconned or undone or whatever after several years. It was easily the best of the original Image books (not hard when you're up against stuff like Spawn, Pitt, and Youngblood, but still...), and the only one that has had the same guy doing every single one of the 150+ issues so far.
I need to catch up on Invincible...bought the first 4 or 5 collections and then kind of fell off. Really liked it though. I don't buy many comics at all anymore so my motivation is low.
[quote name='Rodimus']The only character I can think of that's died and stayed dead for decades is Unlce Ben.[/QUOTE]Barry Allen stayed dead for 23 years.
No Gwen didn't come back, but they did reveal that she had a love affair with the Norman Osborne (Green Goblin) in France and they had twins which aged faster because of his enhanced blood???
Not surprising, but I thought Cap was never officially dead, anyway. I remember Ms. Marvel telling Spider-Woman that he was still alive.
Colossus is one I wish hadn't come back from the dead. As much as I like the character, his sacrifice was a great scene, and it always felt cheapened when he came back.
Don't forget some of the classic Vertigo stuff like Transmetropolitan, Preacher, Sandman. I also liked Grant Morrison's WE3 even though I usually can't stand his normal work. It's a quick three issue read.
[quote name='Gameboy415']Whaaaaaaaaaaa????
Damn. I thought this one would stick.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Gwen Stacy never came back.....right??
(in the original Marvel Universe, I know she did in the Ultimate Universe!)[/QUOTE]
The original version? No, but they bring her back as a clone during the whole Spider-Man "Clone Saga" about 15 years ago.
[quote name='Gentlegamer']Barry Allen stayed dead for 23 years.[/QUOTE]
IIRC, isn't he the one that they're bringing back in "The Flash Reborn"? I think DC is bringing back the popular versions of the characters. Much like they revived Hal Jordan as Green Lantern.
As for Cap coming back, I wonder what they'll do with Bucky's version? Hopefully they won't kill him off again, since I'm starting to get used to his version. I'm hoping they don't screw this up like they did with Spider-Man reboot(Anti-Venom? Menace? What we need, more copies of characters).
The only 'surprise' is that it took this long. But the point about this being timed as the beginning to the 'ramp-up' for his movie and the Avengers film is well taken.
[quote name='Gentlegamer']Barry Allen stayed dead for 23 years.[/QUOTE]
Kinda sorta, since he appeared randomly via the speed force to aid Wally in some of his events (during Rogue War, Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis). Plus he is back in Flash: Rebirth, at least for now.
[quote name='KaneRobot']Agreed, but you didn't mention Savage Dragon, which definitely deserves a name check in this regard. It is pretty much the book that set the standard (at least in the Image universe) for the "HOLY SHIT, THEY KILLED THAT CHARACTER?"-level surprises that don't get retconned or undone or whatever after several years. It was easily the best of the original Image books (not hard when you're up against stuff like Spawn, Pitt, and Youngblood, but still...), and the only one that has had the same guy doing every single one of the 150+ issues so far.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, Savaga Dragon is also a good one. Especially considering within first few issues he gets impaled among other things. That and his character actually does go through drastic changes.
Only thing that kinda turned me off by Dragon was Larsen's artwork. It just seemed a bit too scribbly on details at times.
[quote name='Wombat']I don't think Ted Kord or the Dibney's are really coming back[/QUOTE]
Black Lanterns beg to differ.
[quote name='youbastards']No Gwen didn't come back, but they did reveal that she had a love affair with the Norman Osborne (Green Goblin) in France and they had twins which aged faster because of his enhanced blood??? [/QUOTE]
holy shit wtf!!!!!!! didnt she marry harry ? so basically his dad hit that and had kids with her? man thats some ed up shit.
[quote name='lokizz']holy shit wtf!!!!!!! didnt she marry harry ? so basically his dad hit that and had kids with her? man thats some ed up shit.[/QUOTE]
BUT WAIT! Those events MAY NOT have happend after Mephisto offered a deal to Peter Parker and Mary Jane for them to split up their marriage (and totally destroy continuity) for the sake of Aunt May's life. Well Mary Jane decided to let the old crow live so NOW continuity is rewritten (to an extent) and it MAY not have happened, but they never explain it.
This is why Spider-man is going down the shitter in a heartbeat.
I stopped bothering with comics due to moves like this one. Personally have no problem with the main character being killed off and being replaced, what they do isn't exactly the safest thing in the world and death is just the natural outcome of it. I mean really what is the point of having a sidekick if they never take over? DC almost had all of this right when they started getting rid of the older generation but then the new writers came in and pretty much undid all of it in a few short years.
[quote name='bardockkun']This is why Spider-man is going down the shitter in a heartbeat.[/QUOTE]
I tought the same when Brand New Day started but I've been enjoying Spider-Man for the last few months and has become one of my favorite reads. The fact that Norman is the most powerful man in America has me curious what Spidey's gonna do about it. Plus the past few arcs have been great (New Ways to Die, Character Assassination & currently America's Son)
It was a rocky start but I think it paid off. Maybe It's just me and my awful taste in comics.
[quote name='bardockkun']BUT WAIT! Those events MAY NOT have happend after Mephisto offered a deal to Peter Parker and Mary Jane for them to split up their marriage (and totally destroy continuity) for the sake of Aunt May's life. Well Mary Jane decided to let the old crow live so NOW continuity is rewritten (to an extent) and it MAY not have happened, but they never explain it.
This is why Spider-man is going down the shitter in a heartbeat.[/QUOTE]
wow sounds like someone ed up spiderman. i think its cool characters from the diff comics are intermingling but to that extent thats just in stupid. oh well at least the xmen comics are still good.
[quote name='Rodimus']I tought the same when Brand New Day started but I've been enjoying Spider-Man for the last few months and has become one of my favorite reads. The fact that Norman is the most powerful man in America has me curious what Spidey's gonna do about it. Plus the past few arcs have been great (New Ways to Die, Character Assassination & currently American's Son)
It was a rocky start but I think it paid off. Maybe It's just me and my awful taste in comics.[/QUOTE]
More I just feel no one knows how to write him anymore. I Think it's mostly because they CAN'T follow the Stan Lee way of writing him because now he's grown up. The last refuge for Spider-man I had was Ultimate Spider-man, but due to the worse crossover ever made (Ultimatum) they've raped and tossed that body to the side.
[quote name='bardockkun']More I just feel no one knows how to write him anymore. I Think it's mostly because they CAN'T follow the Stan Lee way of writing him because now he's grown up. The last refuge for Spider-man I had was Ultimate Spider-man, but due to the worse crossover ever made (Ultimatum) they've raped and tossed that body to the side.[/QUOTE]
Very true. It's much more intresting to read about the escapades of a young Spider-Man as oppsoed to an adult one. Ultimate Spidey was the shit, with emphasis on "was".
Bucky Cap has grown on me and I hope he sticks around in some capacity but nobody can replace Steve Rogers. Though I suspect we may not see Steve as Cap again for a bit longer even when he's back.
[quote name='lokizz']what hapened with that other extra cpt america type guy? he had a dark costume and was a west cost avenger for a while.[/QUOTE]
You mean U.S. Agent? He was in Omega Flight (Canada's version of the Avengers) But that was short lived and now he's currently a member of the Mighty Avengers which is a new team competing with Norman's Dark Avengers. Honestly I'm not a fan of the comic.
[quote name='bardockkun']Kinda sorta, since he appeared randomly via the speed force to aid Wally in some of his events (during Rogue War, Infinite Crisis and Final Crisis). [/quote]Barry Allen was a time traveller, so sometimes a future Barry would show up, but he was "really dead" for quite a while.
Plus he is back in Flash: Rebirth, at least for now.
[quote name='bardockkun']Only thing that kinda turned me off by Dragon was Larsen's artwork. It just seemed a bit too scribbly on details at times.[/QUOTE]
As much as I'd like to argue since I have every single issue of that book to date, I don't. Besides the point you made, his artwork is seriously all over the map. It's actually kind of fascinating to watch where it has gone since Image first popped up. He's done stuff that looks like he's aping McFarlane, aping Kirby, issues where he completely changes the color style for just one issue and is then back to normal, stuff where he letters the book by himself, stuff where he tries to make it look like it was printed in the 70's...such are the options of a creator on his own book I suppose. I can overlook it since I've enjoyed the story pretty much since day 1, aside from the weird semi-reboot he did for about six months when #75 came out.
The Spider-Man stuff (that I was totally in the dark on, I stopped following the main Spider-books when they had Peter exit during the clone storyline) looks asinine. Gwen was banging Norman Osborn? Mephisto bartering for Aunt May's soul with the cost being Peter and MJ's marriage? Why does this look like fanfic written by a 14 year old? Obviously I don't know the whole story, and since this is a Cap thread I'll stop on the off-topic stuff for now, but...damn. Really.
why the woul aunt may be in hell anyway? what was she a hooker/assasin in her youth? i she molest peter? man sometimes they hit homeruns and ther times theyre jus scratchin their asses and sniffin their fingers.
[quote name='KaneRobot']The Spider-Man stuff (that I was totally in the dark on, I stopped following the main Spider-books when they had Peter exit during the clone storyline) looks asinine. Gwen was banging Norman Osborn? Mephisto bartering for Aunt May's soul with the cost being Peter and MJ's marriage? Why does this look like fanfic written by a 14 year old? Obviously I don't know the whole story, and since this is a Cap thread I'll stop on the off-topic stuff for now, but...damn. Really.[/QUOTE]
Won't go into much detail, but both were weird. I'll put a summary in spoiler tags.
-The Gwen Stacy/Norman Osborn thing happened supposedly one when Harry was brought to his house by MJ & Gwen after he was sick. One night while Gwen was keeping an eye on Norman, he made a move. A month later, she found out she was pregnant, broke up with Peter & moved to Europe. The kids were born & dumped in Europe while she moved back to the U.S. Where we all know what happens to her. IIRC(it's been nearly 6-7 years since this story), but I think the son died after the daughter realized how twisted Norman was and protected Spider-Man. After that, there was no mention of the kids.
- As for whole bartering with Aunt May's soul, it happened during the Civil War story arc where everyone knew Spider-Man was Peter Parker. Someone hired a hit on Peter, missed and hit Aunt May instead. Peter & MJ kept hiding her under aliases in hospitals, but she was dying. Near the end, Mephisto appears and makes a deal that she would live if Peter & MJ agree to wipe their memory of them being together. They agree and at this point in the new story, it's being hinted that MJ is a super-hero fighting alongside Spider-Man in a couple of his battles.
[quote name='smarkbran']What happened with the Punisher taking Captain Americas spot? I have been out of the loop since the civil war.. [/quote]
Iron Man was the one that decided that Bucky would become Captain America. It was decided after he saw the message Steve left him telling that even though he's dead, Captain America needs to live on.
But there is one thing that bothers me. A couple issues after he died, they showed the body and he seemed to revert back to his skinny body frame before the Super Soldier serum. Either they explain why that happened or just say that one was a clone all along.
[quote name='smarkbran']What happened with the Punisher taking Captain Americas spot? I have been out of the loop since the civil war..[/QUOTE]
That happened in Punisher: War Journal when I want to say it was the Hate Monger or whatever proclaiming he was the new Captain America after Cap died and made his own Cap'esque costume and was killing Mexicans on the border. This got the Punisher to decide that two wrongs make a right in a sense and decided to make his own Cap costume to bring honor back to him since he respected him.
[quote name='KaneRobot']As much as I'd like to argue since I have every single issue of that book to date, I don't. Besides the point you made, his artwork is seriously all over the map. It's actually kind of fascinating to watch where it has gone since Image first popped up. He's done stuff that looks like he's aping McFarlane, aping Kirby, issues where he completely changes the color style for just one issue and is then back to normal, stuff where he letters the book by himself, stuff where he tries to make it look like it was printed in the 70's...such are the options of a creator on his own book I suppose. I can overlook it since I've enjoyed the story pretty much since day 1, aside from the weird semi-reboot he did for about six months when #75 came out.[/QUOTE]
Whoa, whoa. Nothing against you and him, but his art style is just too John Bryne for me these days. I Respect him as a story teller, but his art just isn't my kinda style. Though it doesn't stop me from reading up and catching up on the comic.
The Spider-Man stuff (that I was totally in the dark on, I stopped following the main Spider-books when they had Peter exit during the clone storyline) looks asinine. Gwen was banging Norman Osborn? Mephisto bartering for Aunt May's soul with the cost being Peter and MJ's marriage? Why does this look like fanfic written by a 14 year old? Obviously I don't know the whole story, and since this is a Cap thread I'll stop on the off-topic stuff for now, but...damn. Really.
Did you ever even read what happened before? When Spider-man was basically a reincarnation of a Spider God in some sense and a vampire was hunting him down and ate Peter's eyeball and broke abunch of his bones? Then while in the hospital he attacked Peter again, but this time Peter grew claws from his arm and ate his face and killed him then ran off and made a coccoon out of web and came back stronger (and with both eyes)? I Wish I was making this up, but this is what Spider-man is reduced to in the past few years.
[quote name='bardockkun']That happened in Punisher: War Journal when I want to say it was the Hate Monger or whatever proclaiming he was the new Captain America after Cap died and made his own Cap'esque costume and was killing Mexicans on the border. This got the Punisher to decide that two wrongs make a right in a sense and decided to make his own Cap costume to bring honor back to him since he respected him.
Whoa, whoa. Nothing against you and him, but his art style is just too John Bryne for me these days. I Respect him as a story teller, but his art just isn't my kinda style. Though it doesn't stop me from reading up and catching up on the comic.
Did you ever even read what happened before? When Spider-man was basically a reincarnation of a Spider God in some sense and a vampire was hunting him down and ate Peter's eyeball and broke abunch of his bones? Then while in the hospital he attacked Peter again, but this time Peter grew claws from his arm and ate his face and killed him then ran off and made a coccoon out of web and came back stronger (and with both eyes)? I Wish I was making this up, but this is what Spider-man is reduced to in the past few years.[/QUOTE]
lmao in a. i would have loved to see them pitch that spiderman idea holy shit that is the dumbest ass story ive ever seen.thats why i like the walking dead it is what it is an its belivable. and when someone dies they stay dead.......well sort of. with the way super heroes always die come back die come back its hard to really enjoy it.
[quote name='tangytangerine']Won't go into much detail, but both were weird. I'll put a summary in spoiler tags.
-The Gwen Stacy/Norman Osborn thing happened supposedly one when Harry was brought to his house by MJ & Gwen after he was sick. One night while Gwen was keeping an eye on Norman, he made a move. A month later, she found out she was pregnant, broke up with Peter & moved to Europe. The kids were born & dumped in Europe while she moved back to the U.S. Where we all know what happens to her. IIRC(it's been nearly 6-7 years since this story), but I think the son died after the daughter realized how twisted Norman was and protected Spider-Man. After that, there was no mention of the kids.
- As for whole bartering with Aunt May's soul, it happened during the Civil War story arc where everyone knew Spider-Man was Peter Parker. Someone hired a hit on Peter, missed and hit Aunt May instead. Peter & MJ kept hiding her under aliases in hospitals, but she was dying. Near the end, Mephisto appears and makes a deal that she would live if Peter & MJ agree to wipe their memory of them being together. They agree and at this point in the new story, it's being hinted that MJ is a super-hero fighting alongside Spider-Man in a couple of his battles.
[/QUOTE]
Ok, I sort of knew the deal with the Aunt May thing since I read some of the Civil War TPB stuff and then the Wiki entries on the follow-up storylines (and I thought the old "battle for Aunt May's soul" storyline with Judas Traveller way back when was bad - this was even worse...yeesh), but that Gwen/Norman thing is just batshit insane. What the hell? Thanks for the recap though.
[quote name='bardockkun']
Whoa, whoa. Nothing against you and him, but his art style is just too John Bryne for me these days. I Respect him as a story teller, but his art just isn't my kinda style. Though it doesn't stop me from reading up and catching up on the comic.[/QUOTE]
Wasn't taking anything personally, I was agreeing with you. I was just adding that it has been weird to see how he has experimented with so many styles over the years.
Agreed on the Byrne thing too. Funny that he used to rip that guy relentlessly back during the formative Image years, when all those young whippersnapper creators were full of piss and vinegar. And enormous, out of proportion physiques & weapons.
[quote name='bardockkun']Did you ever even read what happened before? When Spider-man was basically a reincarnation of a Spider God in some sense and a vampire was hunting him down and ate Peter's eyeball and broke abunch of his bones? Then while in the hospital he attacked Peter again, but this time Peter grew claws from his arm and ate his face and killed him then ran off and made a coccoon out of web and came back stronger (and with both eyes)? I Wish I was making this up, but this is what Spider-man is reduced to in the past few years.[/QUOTE] JESUS. I was not aware of ANY of that. That sounds like a bad What If? storyline. I'd say "oh bullshit, you're just messing with me because you know I haven't been keeping up"...but with everything they've done in the last ten years, I'm sadly not surprised.
ed up shit.
