Chris hecker Hates Nintendo

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[quote name='TimPV3']It's about time somebody explains to the public that graphics aren't the only thing the Wii is lacking behind in this generation, but also the ability for complex AI and other related processor issues.[/QUOTE]


Have you not played games? Even with the 360 and ps3 AI continues to be buggy and stupid at times. Its not the lack of power more than the lack of technical ability to make ans debug such AI. Another is physics. Perfect Dark Zero for 360 had problems with bodies flying off into space or something. Saying you want more power before you master what you have is foolish.

On a last note no one needs to explain to the public squat about power or graphics. Nintendo has repeated time and time again before the Wii came out it would not be a powerhouse. Some people just refuse to listen.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Maybe, but video games are going on 30 years (if Pong isn't that old already) so it takes a pretty lose definition of emerging in any case.[/QUOTE]

It took film nearly 50 years before it started making anything we would truly consider a classic (1880s - 1930s).

However, you make a point, the art styles used in games certainly have been around the block.
 
He doesnt hate nintendo he is just speaking the facts about the system. lets face it nintendo fanboys a developer finally got the balls to finally say what everyone is thinking. Good for him. It's gonna start a chain reaction now, finally other people will get off their "I'm not biased" high horse and lay down some real facts about the wii (which is really the biggest rip-off in gaming history in my book).
 
Videogames. Serious Business. So says Chris Hecker.

Let's drop the whole games as art bullshit. Games aren't art. Games aren't movies. Games aren't books. Games are games. Play your games. Grow up. People like him have their heads so far up their asses trying to over analyze videogames that they can't see what makes videogames good.
 
I was playing Gears of War last night, and in one level, one of my squad-mates was running into the corner as if he were running a 26 mile marathon. Then, later, an enemy was walking slowly past me... like right past me, I wasn't hiding or anything. I just cold-cocked him for a kill.

Thank goodness we have all that power to make amazing AI! In some ways, the pattered "AI" of the ghosts in Pacman were superior to what most games have now.
 
[quote name='richbastard']He doesnt hate nintendo he is just speaking the facts about the system. lets face it nintendo fanboys a developer finally got the balls to finally say what everyone is thinking. Good for him. It's gonna start a chain reaction now, finally other people will get off their "I'm not biased" high horse and lay down some real facts about the wii (which is really the biggest rip-off in gaming history in my book).[/quote]

I guess this is how morons remain prominent figures in society. There is always going to be other morons supporting what they do and say.
 
This guy has a point... Nintendo is becoming gimmicky... which is why as of now the Wii has Mini games and last gen ports. and Zelda great game using the Ocriana of Time engine. If this was any other company you Nintendo fans would not stand for it.. It greed that makes Nintendo go after the casual fan market... I think gamers have done a good job in supporting this video game industry why cater to the needs of a casual gamer that hasn't supported you. - Greed
 
[quote name='Thomas96']This guy has a point... Nintendo is becoming gimmicky... which is why as of now the Wii has Mini games and last gen ports. and Zelda great game using the Ocriana of Time engine. If this was any other company you Nintendo fans would not stand for it.. It greed that makes Nintendo go after the casual fan market... I think gamers have done a good job in supporting this video game industry why cater to the needs of a casual gamer that hasn't supported you. - Greed[/quote]Ok, I'm sorry but this is the stupidest post I've ever seen in my life. And I followed the RegalSin thread closely.

It's not greed, it's keeping a company alive. It's in Nintendo's best interests to broaden out their market, just like Sony felt it was in their best interest to get BluRay into the PS3, or Microsoft buying up talented game studios to put exclusive, quality games on their system.

Twilight Princess is not running the OoT engine. Having a similar art atyle and map layout is not the same thing as the engine.

If you're offended by what Nintendo's doing, then don't buy their stuff.
 
[quote name='yukine']I guess this is how morons remain prominent figures in society. There is always going to be other morons supporting what they do and say.[/QUOTE]

You just figured out how Orielly, Limbaugh, Coulter, et all have made money for the past decade.
 
[quote name='daroga']Ok, I'm sorry but this is the stupidest post I've ever seen in my life. And I followed the RegalSin thread closely.

It's not greed, it's keeping a company alive. It's in Nintendo's best interests to broaden out their market, just like Sony felt it was in their best interest to get BluRay into the PS3, or Microsoft buying up talented game studios to put exclusive, quality games on their system.

Twilight Princess is not running the OoT engine. Having a similar art atyle and map layout is not the same thing as the engine.

If you're offended by what Nintendo's doing, then don't buy their stuff.[/QUOTE]


Nintendo tried to broaden out of their market... but remember its still the hard core gamer that going to support them, and make them grow. It's still the hardcore gamer that's advertising the Wii to our grandmas, cousins, and friends... (casual gamer) not Nintendo...
 
[quote name='Thomas96']Nintendo tried to broaden out of their market... but remember its still the hard core gamer that going to support them, and make them grow. It's still the hardcore gamer that's advertising the Wii to our grandmas, cousins, and friends... (casual gamer) not Nintendo...[/QUOTE]

Wrong.

It's the millions - nay, billions - of people who don't play games who will make a market grow.

You're just wrong. So shut up.

Edit: Let's give some examples from all three companies. Nintendo has the Brain Age and Nintendogs series. Sony is now doing Playstation Home, which is meant to attract Second Life/Mii types and the casual crowd by inviting them into a "community aspect" sort of situation, where you have fancy graphics and other little touches to try and appeal to people who don't think mIRC screens are sexy. Microsoft has gone on record as saying that they need more games like Viva Pinata to attract people outside of the Halo market.

So yes. You are wrong. End of discussion.
 
Forgive me if I don't see the problem with Nintendo's attempts to broaden the market and make their system more accessible. Until the Wii came along my wife never played a video game for more than a minute or two.

I think games can quite easily be considered art, as the only requirement for 'art' is the appreciation of that medium (and specific piece) by a group of people. Art is very subjective, and I'm sure there is a lot of 'art' out there that many of us do not consider so. Tell all of the people who pay more than the original price for copies of FFVII for PS1 (or any other game) that the game is not art, and should not be collected now that we have better graphics.

There are plenty of things to gripe about with the Wii, but as others have pointed out, Hecker's method of doing so was downright childish. Nintendo has been pretty up-front about the graphics and processing abilities of the Wii, so people need to start stating facts if they want to convince me that is truly a problem with the system (i.e. if he had said "Spore will never run on Wii because of its lack of processing power" or something to that effect). Otherwise it just sounds like childish whining about a lack of spare processing cycles. God forbid he should be forced to produce efficient code while creating his art...I can't imagine how he feels about the DS.
 
The guy is doing it for the attention. Perhaps he was paid off in the sense that Gamepro was bought off by Electronic Arts.

Either way, the bottom line is this. Nintendo has been saying since 1999 that they would rather create games which are less complex. I literally have an article by Miyamoto saying this by my side in an old Next Generation magazine. What Nintendo is doing and what Heckler apparently feels insulted by, is Nintendo's desire to push the videogame format as a toy rather than something that would be accepted by the mainstream as a serious artform (aka Sponge Bob vs. Full Metal Alchemist).

I've personally had my issues with Nintendo over this fact and I think the GDC cracked a big hole in Nintendo's armor. Nintendo really needs to deliver something innovative at E3 or the tide will turn against them. This is more apt to happen in the western markets than the Japanese ones. Nintendo has Japan locked up. The Europe and American markets are pretty much still up in the air.

This drought is really, really killing Nintendo. If there was stuff out here that made really want us to play with our console that would be one thing, but it's all just Virtual Console games and a port here and there. I think we should be looking to Q4 2007 before any amount of substanstial games hit the market that will make any of us truly happy.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']Nintendo tried to broaden out of their market... but remember its still the hard core gamer that going to support them, and make them grow. It's still the hardcore gamer that's advertising the Wii to our grandmas, cousins, and friends... (casual gamer) not Nintendo...[/quote]And? Word of mouth is powerful. Nintendo knows that "gamers" would be the first people in on the Wii which would then translate into sales for them from people who wouldn't have even paid attention to such a thing. I can name 3 Wii systems, actually, that have been sold because of someone trying out mine and going out there. But *I* didn't buy those three systems, non-gamers did. Thus, while I was more or less a demo kiosk (tool?) of Nintendo, it's their reaching out the non-gamers with an accessible product that is making thieir userbase go beyond that which video games have held in the past.

In the end, your points are not only illogical, I'm not even sure you actually were making a point. This comment and the "greed" of Nintendo sure sounds a lot more like a indignant Sony fan grumbling that Nintendo's underpowered DS and Wii are running roughshod over the mighty Playstation brand at this point.
 
I guess that's his opinion.. so it's cool :)
To me spending time playing Wii sport and Wii play with my wife and playing catch up to some of the cube games I didn't have a chance to pop in my cube (thanx to the Wii now.. I kinda am....) is good enough.

For many and i mean alot of people, the wii maybe an introductory to videogame art to them. There are at least 3 people whom I know would never even glance at videogame and now they have the Wii. Amazingly, two of my friends who are girls and as cheap as they comes... are considering to buy a Wii as well (Well their gang always go to the weekly art show, so not sure if there's corelation there haha)...... I enjoy the Wii art as much as Xbox360/PS3 art.. but it doesn't justify the price (tangible and intangible) for me to pay for those art yet.. once the 'price is right'.. I'll try to enjoy all three ;)
 
Who the fuck is Chris Hecker and why should we care?

Do I get to make a thread in the PS3 boards that "Foltzie" hates Sony? Which for the record overstates my dislike of Sony, I just happen to dislike the fact that they cant seem to release a system that doesnt wear out in 3 years.
 
[quote name='soyverde']Forgive me if I don't see the problem with Nintendo's attempts to broaden the market and make their system more accessible. Until the Wii came along my wife never played a video game for more than a minute or two.
[/QUOTE]

I agree it's a good thing for them. I just hope it means enough "substantive" games on the Wii for us more hardcore gamers.

On the DS there's a nice mix of stuff like Brain Age and Nintendogs with non-gamer appeal but a ton of stuff like NSMB, Mario Kart, Castlevania and on and on for the hardcore gamers.

As long as the Wii has the same mix, then their strategy is fine for all involved, and I don't see any reason it won't be.

Yes, right now its heavy on non-gamer friendly stuff like Wiisports, Wiiplay and the various mini-game collections, but there's also Zelda and stuff coming like Paper Mario, Metroid Prime 3, Mario Galaxy and so on for the hardcore gaming crowd.

So my only real concern is if the third parties will put out decent games, or if the wii will drift into just having the 2-4 good Nintendo titles a year like the Gamecube did it's last 2 or 3 years.
 
I do wish the Wii had more horsepower under the hood.

But really only because I want to see what Zelda and Mario could look like if it had the power of 360 or PS3.

Maybe next generation.
 
[quote name='dallow']I do wish the Wii had more horsepower under the hood.

But really only because I want to see what Zelda and Mario could look like if it had the power of 360 or PS3.

Maybe next generation.[/quote]I think there's a limit to where horsepower can improve a game like Mario. There's only so much detailing you can do to the portly plumber before changes become hardly noticable. Wind Waker would be the same instance. However, a Zelda with TP's style on a box with a ton under the hood could be amazingly interesting. I'm anxious to see what the Made-for-Wii Zelda ends up looking like.
 
[quote name='daroga']I think there's a limit to where horsepower can improve a game like Mario. There's only so much detailing you can do to the portly plumber before changes become hardly noticable. Wind Waker would be the same instance. However, a Zelda with TP's style on a box with a ton under the hood could be amazingly interesting. I'm anxious to see what the Made-for-Wii Zelda ends up looking like.[/quote]Mario would probaby look better on hi-def TVs, but he wouldn't look inherently better. They wouldn't give him dimples and individual hairs in his mustache.

Personally I wish the 360 was more powerful so I could see Gears in 1440p. But I guess that will have to wait too. :D Yes, I'm being facetious. Every property will look better in the future, so no point crying over spilled milk.
 
I hate the wii but this guy only came off as a douche. That was certainly not any type of way to argue against the system. He comes off as a 14 year old on gamefaqs. For christ sakes if you dislike the system how about arguing against it intelligently?
 
[quote name='botticus']

Personally I wish the 360 was more powerful so I could see Gears in 1440p. But I guess that will have to wait too. :D Yes, I'm being facetious. Every property will look better in the future, so no point crying over spilled milk.[/QUOTE]

That's not really fair as people were saying they wanted to see what Nintendo franchises could look like currently if Nintendo had upped the power of the Wii to that of the competition. So its not a future thing.

I personally don't care, I like more stylish, cartoonish games for the most part, and as others said there's only so much graphic power can do to improve those games.

I'm not interested in photo realism. I play games to take a break from the real world, not to "interact" with it again. :D
 
[quote name='daroga']I think there's a limit to where horsepower can improve a game like Mario. There's only so much detailing you can do to the portly plumber before changes become hardly noticable. Wind Waker would be the same instance. However, a Zelda with TP's style on a box with a ton under the hood could be amazingly interesting. I'm anxious to see what the Made-for-Wii Zelda ends up looking like.[/quote]

Like Botticus said, I'm not expecting to finally see Mario's open pores or anything.
But they could do so much with more power.

Wind Waker could have more detail, more animation, more shaders, more fluidity. More like a seamless cartoon.... oh, so beautiful.
 
From websters.com, 1st definiton.

the quality, production, expression, or realm, according to aesthetic principles, of what is beautiful, appealing, or of more than ordinary significance.
Click to expand...

First off, I'm a little ashamed no one here has mentioned Silent Hill or Killer 7. Now, everyone is going to have differing opinions on SH and K7, how "deep/artsy" it is. But, based off this definition, here's how I see it.

It's about taking something, and looking past it's face value. Something as simple as an enemy in SH2 has to make you think more then just it being an obstacle. "Why am I killing manequins? Why does that one squirm and crawl around?"

Take it a lil further, and examine everything closely. How certain areas are vibrant and clean, and others are dark and dirty. Sound effects concerning everything, especially music. ("Letter from the Lost Days (SH3)" and especially "Your Rain (SH4)")

Yes, art is a very differing subject for everybody. But the "Games as Art" argument always comes up because we (Gamers and Developers) want our medium to be recognized. We want to be established as real, meaningfull.
I think it's just a matter of time.

And to end Chris's cute argument, I have this to say: NO. MORE. HEROES.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I agree it's a good thing for them. I just hope it means enough "substantive" games on the Wii for us more hardcore gamers.

On the DS there's a nice mix of stuff like Brain Age and Nintendogs with non-gamer appeal but a ton of stuff like NSMB, Mario Kart, Castlevania and on and on for the hardcore gamers.

As long as the Wii has the same mix, then their strategy is fine for all involved, and I don't see any reason it won't be.

Yes, right now its heavy on non-gamer friendly stuff like Wiisports, Wiiplay and the various mini-game collections, but there's also Zelda and stuff coming like Paper Mario, Metroid Prime 3, Mario Galaxy and so on for the hardcore gaming crowd.

So my only real concern is if the third parties will put out decent games, or if the wii will drift into just having the 2-4 good Nintendo titles a year like the Gamecube did it's last 2 or 3 years.[/quote]
Agreed...honestly if it weren't for the DS, I don't think I'd have a Wii right now. I jumped on the DS bandwagon late in the game (when the lite came out), but I have been nothing if not impressed with the inteface in many games for that system, and I have played some spectacular games on hardware that is frankly underpowered compared to the PSP. It was because of this experience that I purchased a Wii not long after launch.

The game draught definitely looks bad, but then again the PS3 doesn't exactly have a massive list of must-have games either at this point. Hopefully the sheer number of Wiis Nintendo is moving will convince more third party devs to pull their thumbs out. More importantly, though, is that we get some well thought out games that actually use the interface, rather than a bunch of sloppy ports from other systems. I am willing to wait a while (hopefully not too long) to see if we get more of the former.

If many of the devs (as rumored) were playing 'wait and see' with respect to the Wii, we could have a long wait on our hands for non first party games that don't feel like they were thrown together on a shoestring budget or at the last minute.
 
[quote name='soyverde']
The game draught definitely looks bad, but then again the PS3 doesn't exactly have a massive list of must-have games either at this point.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. While it sucks, this draught is just typical for the post launch period. The PS3 is experiencing the same, the 360 went through it last year, and it has followed every launch I've experienced (SNES on).

It's just the cost of early adoption.
 
[quote name='Strell']Wrong.

It's the millions - nay, billions - of people who don't play games who will make a market grow.

You're just wrong. So shut up.

Edit: Let's give some examples from all three companies. Nintendo has the Brain Age and Nintendogs series. Sony is now doing Playstation Home, which is meant to attract Second Life/Mii types and the casual crowd by inviting them into a "community aspect" sort of situation, where you have fancy graphics and other little touches to try and appeal to people who don't think mIRC screens are sexy. Microsoft has gone on record as saying that they need more games like Viva Pinata to attract people outside of the Halo market.

So yes. You are wrong. End of discussion.[/QUOTE]



Well if a person don't like games... they aren't going to play them... no matter how dumbed down the system and games are. If a person is interested in games, then they're going to be willing to play. Atari 2600 had simplistic "for fun" gameplay... and there was no increase of casual gamers playing... You have to attract casual gamers with casual things... like Movies... PS3 plays blu ray movies...and we know that everyone watches movies... so that is actually a good way of bringing people into a new brand... or black sony box. Also, casual gamers are the ones who love graphics... In all honesty the xbox 360 is the best system for casual gamers.. .its cheap, it has a great library, and it's priced just right... 299.99 - Playstation 3 is for hardcore fans... like me who are willing to pay 600, and the Wii is for hardcore fans who simply love Nintendo... and children. No one is going to spend 600 dollars just to experience home... Playstation Home is just a good feature to have once you own the ps3... Playstation is going to have to have great games w/ great graphics.
 
Chris Hecker is unprofessional in expressing his opinion and as thus, anyone with half a brain would be throwing his opinion out the window until he apologizes and makes his points more reasonably like an adult, and not a child, which he now is.

To Thomas:
please.. try... to... write.. with...out... using .... ellipses... between... every ....few..... words.

Also, breaks in your writing make it so it doesn't get ignored.

There's so many assumptions in your arguements that I don't know where to start. Nintendo has their strategy, and it doesn't appeal to you, Sony has their strategy, and it appeals to you. Fine. We're all happy.

I'd personally be very upset if Nintendo was not doing things their own way and was bankrupting themselves trying to create a machine that matches the PS3/360 features/hardware. It just wouldn't work, they're not that kind of company, and PS3 and 360 already fill that gap. Nintendo fills the more casual, fun oriented games space. It's not a bad thing, it's just different.
 
The bottom line is this guy told the truth, and he has a damn good point... dumbing down games... makes me feel like Nintendo doesn't take games seriously... Nintendo needs to take care of home... meaning, take care of the Hardcore gamers.. cause right now... I dont' think you guys are truly satisfied with the Wii's games as of right now.. Also... why the heck should their be a drought on the Wii... it's not like its hard to program for....
 
[quote name='soyverde'] The game draught definitely looks bad, but then again the PS3 doesn't exactly have a massive list of must-have games either at this point.[/QUOTE]

To play devil's advocate for a bit after this week the PS3 has generated two games that are likely to be franchises this generation in Resistance and Motorstorm, both of which while receiving criticism are still pretty darn good. Granted, the Wii has had one in Elebits, but the drought is felt a little harder with the Wii since as it stands right now every game we're looking forward to is iteration or sequel or variation of previously established Nintendo franchise. Microsoft and Sony have both unveiled a lot of compelling new IPs in addition to the Halos and Final Fantasies we've seen over and over again. I'm waiting for the next Pikmin from Nintendo rather then Batallion Wars II even if BWii is a rock solid game.

I want to love the Wii as much as I love my DS, but as it stands right now, Microsoft and Sony both have more new and interesting things in the works then Nintendo. Maybe it's because of the stock thing that Nintendo can't show their big guns, but Sony's GDC 2007 looks like it might be what Nintendo's E3 2006 was with Microsoft pumping out quality games monthly now. Maybe I'm just coming down from the launch buzz finally, but I feel like Sony and Microsoft are doing much more interesting things then Nintendo, first party or otherwise.

To address the Chris Hecker point though, it's utterly moronic. The whole fanboyish nature of it puts me off, but far beyond that is the implications of what he's saying. He's essentially saying that the Wii cannot produce an artistic experience because it's underpowered. By saying that, not only is he saying that the arguably the most creative collection of game developers in the world can't create something new and exciting and artistic, he's also implying that everything before PS3 and 360 could not have been art. Pure and total bullshit. It's the type of argument that someone makes when they say no film before the advent of sound was a work of art because it's just too old. Hecker made himself look like an ass in multiple ways with his tirade against Nintendo.

Edit: Also to address Thomas96, the big post launch games for the PS3 were either delayed from launch (Motorstorm/Virtua Fighter 5) or being cocurrently developed on competing hardware. It's just that it's a lot easier to swallow a PS3/360 release then it is to swallow a Wii/PSP/PS2 release at the moment.
 
They've pretty much admitted that they can't win in the hardcore gamer demographic. Sony and MS have that group cornered.

But of course it sucks for hardcore gamers. As was the general consensus in a thread on the topic a few months ago, the Wii is unlikely to suffice as the sole system for a hardcore gamer. It's just a nice complement to one or both of the others since it offers such a different type of gaming.

However, it is great for non-gamers and that's why it is flying off shelves still.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']Exactly. While it sucks, this draught is just typical for the post launch period. The PS3 is experiencing the same, the 360 went through it last year, and it has followed every launch I've experienced (SNES on).

It's just the cost of early adoption.[/quote]

Last year? Look at the 360 THIS YEAR. I dont see anyone with a steller Q2 release list. Its just not the time to come out with heavy hitters
 
[quote name='jer7583']Chris Hecker is unprofessional in expressing his opinion and as thus, anyone with half a brain would be throwing his opinion out the window until he apologizes and makes his points more reasonably like an adult, and not a child, which he now is.

To Thomas:
please.. try... to... write.. with...out... using .... ellipses... between... every ....few..... words.

Also, breaks in your writing make it so it doesn't get ignored.

There's so many assumptions in your arguements that I don't know where to start. Nintendo has their strategy, and it doesn't appeal to you, Sony has their strategy, and it appeals to you. Fine. We're all happy.

I'd personally be very upset if Nintendo was not doing things their own way and was bankrupting themselves trying to create a machine that matches the PS3/360 features/hardware. It just wouldn't work, they're not that kind of company, and PS3 and 360 already fill that gap. Nintendo fills the more casual, fun oriented games space. It's not a bad thing, it's just different.[/QUOTE]


just don't read it... I write the way that I write. It's not perfect, but it gets the point across. Nintendo, bankrupt... LOL ... never use those two words in the same sentence, Nintendo never takes a loss for anything. Look at Nintendo's games, can we really say that they are 'more fun' than other games. Is excite truck any more fun than Motorstorm, or is Zelda more fun than Final Fantasy XII - NO What makes excite truck more casual a game, than Motorstorm.. Guitar Hero is fun casual game;

Nintendo has always been in the forefront when it comes to graphics(or at least they tried to be) I'm just wondering what happened to this generation and why Nintendo chose to undercut... and please dont say it was to make games 'more fun' or more 'innovative.'
 
[quote name='Thomas96']
Nintendo has always been in the forefront when it comes to graphics(or at least they tried to be) I'm just wondering what happened to this generation and why Nintendo chose to undercut... and please dont say it was to make games 'more fun' or more 'innovative.'[/quote]

You already answered your own question. They did it to make money, and in the future we'll see from the marketshare and profit reports if they decided correctly.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']They've pretty much admitted that they can't win in the hardcore gamer demographic. Sony and MS have that group cornered.

But of course it sucks for hardcore gamers. As was the general consensus in a thread on the topic a few months ago, the Wii is unlikely to suffice as the sole system for a hardcore gamer. It's just a nice complement to one or both of the others since it offers such a different type of gaming.[/QUOTE]

Well yes and no. It's a system that's great for hardcore retro gamers, especially if they don't play ROMs. The Virtual Console is the single biggest selling point for most hardcore gamers at the moment. Having said that, the Wii looks to be a great system for Nintendo hardcore gamers who buy every Nintendo release ever. Nintendo's hardcore audience who have been with them since the NES or earlier are very happy with the Wii and the direction it's taking gaming. The one problem is that it's taking just a bit longer then we'd all like it to.

[quote name='Thomas96']Nintendo has always been in the forefront when it comes to graphics(or at least they tried to be) I'm just wondering what happened to this generation and why Nintendo chose to undercut... and please dont say it was to make games 'more fun' or more 'innovative.'[/QUOTE]

Nintendo saw graphics as a diminshing return. Rather then lose a ton of money making graphics heavy games, Nintendo perfects a new type of control, comes in with a system comparable to the PS3 and 360 in 09-10 (being first to market), and the graphical leap to the Xbox 720 and PS4 is minimal at best. They've got a different business model this generation. Just get over it.
 
I don't think any of us are arguing with the fact that the Wii is underpowered, we all knew this was going to be the case before it even hit retail.

I have no problem with it being less powerful in comparison to the 360 and PS3, as I think the motion sensitive controls and the creativity that Nintendo often provides in its games is more than enough to justify the purchase of the console and its games.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']This guy has a point... Nintendo is becoming gimmicky... which is why as of now the Wii has Mini games and last gen ports. and Zelda great game using the Ocriana of Time engine. If this was any other company you Nintendo fans would not stand for it.. It greed that makes Nintendo go after the casual fan market... I think gamers have done a good job in supporting this video game industry why cater to the needs of a casual gamer that hasn't supported you. - Greed[/QUOTE]

[quote name='daroga']Ok, I'm sorry but this is the stupidest post I've ever seen in my life. And I followed the RegalSin thread closely.

Indeed.
OMG Nintendo is in it for the money! who knew? Of course any business that ACTUALLY makes money is evil. right? By this logic sony is jesus for taking a loss on every console sold. Every time thomas posts the overall Intelligence of the thread drops low. Hes the same person that insists a psp comeback and world takeover is just over the horizon. thomas are you a communist by any chance? you know hating the whole idea of capitalism, making money in business and all.

/end rant mode
 
[quote name='furyk']Well yes and no. It's a system that's great for hardcore retro gamers, especially if they don't play ROMs. The Virtual Console is the single biggest selling point for most hardcore gamers at the moment. Having said that, the Wii looks to be a great system for Nintendo hardcore gamers who buy every Nintendo release ever. Nintendo's hardcore audience who have been with them since the NES or earlier are very happy with the Wii and the direction it's taking gaming. The one problem is that it's taking just a bit longer then we'd all like it to.



Nintendo saw graphics as a diminshing return. Rather then lose a ton of money making graphics heavy games, Nintendo perfects a new type of control, comes in with a system comparable to the PS3 and 360 in 09-10 (being first to market), and the graphical leap to the Xbox 720 and PS4 is minimal at best. They've got a different business model this generation. Just get over it.[/QUOTE]

you're right... but what happens Nintendo releases their real system in next 3 years.. 249, making the Wii obsolete, and Nintendo fans being suckered out of 500. I guess my gripe is that... if the Wii is your system, then don't ditch it and make it obsolete, after 3 years.. if it lasts 5 then I think that's good... if it lasts 6-10 then that's great... my thing is... I don't want Nintendo to release half assed systems only to make a new and more powerful one before the Wii can even live out its own life.. if that happens then Nintendo fans (including me) may end up spending more than you would had you just invested in a Playstation 3 from the beginning.
 
If the Wii2 comes out in 2 years (it won't), lasts for 5, and is also $250, you've spent $500 on two consoles that last 7 or 8 years. How is that worse than spending $400-$600 on one console that last 4-6 years?
 
[quote name='botticus']If the Wii2 comes out in 2 years (it won't), lasts for 5, and is also $250, you've spent $500 on two consoles that last 7 or 8 years. How is that worse than spending $400-$600 on one console that last 4-6 years?[/quote]
You shouldnt even allow them to entertain such a ridiculous possibility. Bad you.

The difference then is that the $600 has the grafx.
 
[quote name='Dr Mario Kart']You shouldnt even allow them to entertain such a ridiculous possibility. Bad you.

The difference then is that the $600 has the grafx.[/QUOTE]

Well no. Whatever Nintendo puts out next will have graphics comperable or better then the PS3 or 360. The other thing Thomas96 is that all of us don't think the Wii is a half assed system. The majority of us think it brings enough to the table at $250 with a game for us to be okay with it having (probably) a four year lifespan.
 
If they do exceedingly well in the face of these two powerhouses, who is to say that they wont just invent some other way to keep us interested instead of adding more power.

If they beat two competitors who are so much more powered up NOW, why would they want to emulate that strategy later?

If they win marketshare by a wide margin, they should just keep this current generation going. When the massive powerhouse PS4 and 720 are introduced, Nintendo can just say, 'thats alright, we'll just keep selling Wii games like you were with the PS2'
 
It rarely works that way, though. Console generations exist because the creators want to freshen up their income stream. If the Wii manages to truly emulate the DS in terms of sales (where it's selling out over holiday seasons years after release), then maybe they'll keep it going longer than they otherwise would. But the more likely occurrence is that the market will reach saturation (even the expanded market that Nintendo is catering to), and sales will slow to the point where something "new" is needed. And if they're going to make a new console, there's little reason for them NOT to throw in some more horsepower since at that point it will be cheap enough to hit 720p and 1080p while making a profit as they demand.

Just remember, the GC, Xbox, and PS2 probably had a few years of life left in them in terms of exploiting all that could be done.
 
That's the thing though, I think that the massively powerful PS4 and 720 will be at the point where graphics are just not the number one concern anymore. Games are very close to hitting their peak in graphics. We've got one more real jump left to actual photorealism, but that's still another decade or two off. Sony said the PS3 is a decade system simply because it doesn't need to make a PS4 for graphics. The next major jump with the next generation will either be in distribution or in control.
 
They should at least go for 6 years. 'current gen' power with a new control scheme may have worked this time, but it may be more dificult twice in a row if the control scheme is no longer new. PS3 graphics plus waggle may not be enough.

They'll be painted a doom corner again, and they'll be secretive about what they are working on, but this time: No one will doubt that security of their ideas are a concern.

I have no idea what they could come up with to keep my interest after this. It may very well be the last console I ever own.
 
Anyone who believes that generational jumps in technology happen to "broaden horizons" or to "increase expressiveness" is a tool.

Jumps in technology happen because.. *GASP* Technology becomes cheap! Returns deminish! This is the entire reason for the next gen movie formats, because DVDs are becoming so cheap that the money is drying up, so they need a new format and new players to charge you $30 a disc and $500 for a player for, instead of $10 a disc and $30 for a player.

Thomas96, what don't you understand about that we're happy with the Wii. For $250, it has good enough graphics and enough games that I think it's worth my money, and I love it. If you don't, fine, you've made your point, but it's not important to us, and you're not going to change anybody's opinion, especially wording your arguements the way you do.. like ...this....so...that...you...sound...like.....you're....unsure...about...everything.... and..it..can't..be...read.

Stop making assumptions that everyone is like you, and grow up. If you can't have fun with all three systems, your loss, too bad, go cry in the corner, but stop bugging us.
 
[quote name='furyk']That's the thing though, I think that the massively powerful PS4 and 720 will be at the point where graphics are just not the number one concern anymore. Games are very close to hitting their peak in graphics. We've got one more real jump left to actual photorealism, but that's still another decade or two off. Sony said the PS3 is a decade system simply because it doesn't need to make a PS4 for graphics. The next major jump with the next generation will either be in distribution or in control.[/QUOTE]



If the Wii can just get a bunch of good games.. I'd love to see more old school 2d/3d platformers... like New Super mario come out for the Wii.. but regardless. if the Wii can really get some good titles, and not just the "Wii version" of what everyone else got... (prime example - Sonic Sacred rings), then it'll do well. Wii could be like the NES... The NES was doing so good, that they didn't even have to release the Super NES.. cause the NES was outselling the Genesis... Get capcom to do that Bionic Commando for the Wii.. if they do.. I'll damn show get one... either that.. hopefully Mario galaxy is good, but then again.. I do want to finish up Sunshine. Right now... Nintendo should be doing better in terms of their library of games... you get GREAT games on your system, and no one will be able to call the system half assed.
 
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