Club Bing thread 4 absolutely no macro bot auto typer cheating return fraud talk !!!

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[quote name='kvadair']The reason they are cracking down is simple, some idiots are ordering hundreds of copies of vista just to resell it, and Microsoft is tired of it. They haven't been successful in preventing those people from earning tickets, so now they are trying to keep them from redeeming those tickets. I agree however that the TOS are purposely unclear.

We know that the volume of prizes shipping is way down thanks to the tracking site, and we know that this is hitting everyone including legit players. The theory which best explains this goes something like the following (credit to A_Gamer): when they check your address for compliance with the 1/household rule they are now checking for other accounts that have had prizes shipped to the same address to see whether they earned tickets on any of the same days, and if so flagging both accounts.

If true, people SHOULD raise a stink about this as the TOS have never limited accounts to one per household, nor have they said only one account per household may earn tickets in a day, just one per person. In order to justify such an action based on the current TOS they would have to be able to prove that multiple accounts were being used by the same person on the same day, and that can't be done using server logs or any other information the games can transmit. Of course that's why they also have language in the TOS that they can screw you any time they feel like it (note the word suspected, not proved).

"Microsoft reserves the right to withhold tickets, prizes, and charitable donations from any user suspected of activities that violate the Terms or are otherwise unlawful."[/QUOTE]


Excellent explanation, though I think MS is just shooting themselves in the foot by doing this. Same amount of people, but with at least half the accounts that were being used means their search results will go down. You'd think they'd be supporting this type of thing lol.
 
[quote name='kvadair']The reason they are cracking down is simple, some idiots are ordering hundreds of copies of vista just to resell it, and Microsoft is tired of it.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure that you are right about their goal in these sweeps.

Sadly, the folks that you describe, if the current theory is correct, will be largely unaffected.

The people that have a couple of legit accounts in their house that happen to play on the same day?
They get the shaft.
 
[quote name='kvadair']The reason they are cracking down is simple, some idiots are ordering hundreds of copies of vista just to resell it, and Microsoft is tired of it. They haven't been successful in preventing those people from earning tickets, so now they are trying to keep them from redeeming those tickets. I agree however that the TOS are purposely unclear.

We know that the volume of prizes shipping is way down thanks to the tracking site, and we know that this is hitting everyone including legit players. The theory which best explains this goes something like the following (credit to A_Gamer): when they check your address for compliance with the 1/household rule they are now checking for other accounts that have had prizes shipped to the same address to see whether they earned tickets on any of the same days, and if so flagging both accounts.

If true, people SHOULD raise a stink about this as the TOS have never limited accounts to one per household, nor have they said only one account per household may earn tickets in a day, just one per person. In order to justify such an action based on the current TOS they would have to be able to prove that multiple accounts were being used by the same person on the same day, and that can't be done using server logs or any other information the games can transmit. Of course that's why they also have language in the TOS that they can screw you any time they feel like it (note the word suspected, not proved).

"Microsoft reserves the right to withhold tickets, prizes, and charitable donations from any user suspected of activities that violate the Terms or are otherwise unlawful."[/QUOTE]

I love how misinformed you are. What is happening is that microsoft is flagging accounts that order to the same address.

Account 1 order to address A
Account 2 order to Address A and Address B
Account 3 order to address b

all 3 accounts flagged, as each address had orders from multiple accounts.

Account 1 orders ONLY to address A
account 2 orders ONLY to address B
account 3 orders ONLY to address C

accounts not flagged

Most botters have ways (i'm not getting into this) of manipulating addresses, so they are getting their prizes since they have unlimited addresses to order to. What happenned was some people decided to complain to the BBB about not getting their stuff, so MS started enforcing the 1 account rule, screwing all you guys.

Honestly, i'm not trying to say who's right or wrong, but the people who went to the BBB screwed you over, not the botters. The botters are getting their prizes, not you guys.

I also think MS knows that this will laregely NOT influence use of their site, since botters run many many more accounts than legit players, and MS knows that the botters will receive their prizes because of manipulation, so they tend to turn a blind eye.
 
[quote name='stacey369']this question is for anyone who ordered a zune and received it already

what color was it?

has anyone ever gotten a pink one?[/QUOTE]

I ordered a Zune on 5/27 ans received it on 6/29 and it was PINK. I already had a Pink Zune 30 that I bought when it first came out but I still love the new one. At least now I have a replacement.
 
Well if my accounts are flagged than I'm done, ordered 83,500 tickets worth of prizes between 5/02 and 6/24 got the first 3 which were also the smallest prizes. Apparently never gonna get vista, 360 games, tool kit, play and charge kits, and more. *sigh* Knew this was too good.
 
[quote name='Whirly']I love how misinformed you are. What is happening is that microsoft is flagging accounts that order to the same address.

Account 1 order to address A
Account 2 order to Address A and Address B
Account 3 order to address b

all 3 accounts flagged, as each address had orders from multiple accounts[/QUOTE]

The address is certainly an element of the algorithm but it's not that simple.

I received some Zune earphones that I ordered on May 26th to the same address that I used for an account that appears to have been flagged.
 
[quote name='Whirly']

Most botters have ways (i'm not getting into this) of manipulating addresses, so they are getting their prizes since they have unlimited addresses to order to. What happenned was some people decided to complain to the BBB about not getting their stuff, so MS started enforcing the 1 account rule, screwing all you guys.

Honestly, i'm not trying to say who's right or wrong, but the people who went to the BBB screwed you over, not the botters. The botters are getting their prizes, not you guys.[/QUOTE]

Please take me through your logic of Complain to BBB > crackdown on multiple accounts vs Find ways around TOS > crackdown on multiple accounts. I'd love to hear it.
 
Probably a timing thing. Botters have been going for a long time, but recently someone with admittedly multiple accounts filed a BBB claim after not receiving prizes.

I say we don't really know much of anything. I've received prizes ordered from a couple accounts a couple weeks ago and others with multiple accounts have also received prizes.

What we do know is that "multiple accounts" is being given as a reason to flag people and Club Bing is shipping far fewer prizes.
 
[quote name='vliam']The address is certainly an element of the algorithm but it's not that simple.

I received some Zune earphones that I ordered on May 26th to the same address that I used for an account that appears to have been flagged.[/QUOTE]

And I received my DVD player from my backup account, but not my Vista from my real account (and it was sent to another address) and nothing else since from my backup.
These are all just theories anyway so everyone or no one could be right as to what is actually going on.
 
Let's hope they are just really backed up or really understaffed and we'll be getting prizes, just later than the 1 month. It does say 8-12 weeks after all.
 
[quote name='louiedog']Please take me through your logic of Complain to BBB > crackdown on multiple accounts [/QUOTE]

Yeah. I think the cause and effect are reversed. Seems to me, the reason the complaints were filed was because the person wasn't getting their crap. So, the flagging must have occurred prior to the complaint.
 
[quote name='vliam']Yeah. I think the cause and effect are reversed. Seems to me, the reason the complaints were filed was because the person wasn't getting their crap. So, the flagging must have occurred prior to the complaint.[/QUOTE]

Yup. And what does flagging a ton of accounts that people claim are legit do? Makes a bunch of angry people who are more likely to file BBB claims.
 
[quote name='modchamp']Let's hope they are just really backed up or really understaffed and we'll be getting prizes, just later than the 1 month. It does say 8-12 weeks after all.[/QUOTE]

Well, today makes 10 weeks since I ordered Lost Odyssey and Scene It 2.

I'm not terribly optimistic about the situation.
 
They started enforcing the 1 account rule per address after the switch to club bing, which was early may or so. Most of the prizes sent to you are worthless to microsoft, so they have no problem with people running tons of accounts, as they get loads and loads of searches. Once people start complaining to the BBB though, MS has to cover it's ass and make it look like they are enforcing the ToC,


MS could probably get away with blocking accounts for suspected botting, but once people started proving that they weren't botting, and complaining to the BBB, MS needed a reason to block people, and since the eyes of the BBB were on this they began enforcing it universally.
 
[quote name='louiedog']Yup. And what does flagging a ton of accounts that people claim are legit do? Makes a bunch of angry people who are more likely to file BBB claims.[/QUOTE]

Who can be trumped by the multiple account card
 
[quote name='louiedog']Please take me through your logic of Complain to BBB > crackdown on multiple accounts vs Find ways around TOS > crackdown on multiple accounts. I'd love to hear it.[/QUOTE]

Ms makes pure profit out of this as these prizes have no selling value for them. Therefore they dont mind people who play 100's of accounts, since they are getting thousands of searches for, well, free. Once people start complaining though because microsoft flags them for suspected bot abuse, which is pretty much when someone gets a ton of speed capchas, then the people complain to the BBB.

MS realizes they need to make it look like the enforce ToS, so they enforce 1 account/address. Their valued botters are unaffected.

MS has NOTHING to gain by enforcing their ToS, they make more profit when more people are using clubbing, including botters as long as they use vagualy human bots. When legit people who can often type faster than bots are mistaken for bots that are obvious, they get flagged, people complain, MS enforces, etc.
 
[quote name='Whirly']Ms makes pure profit out of this as these prizes have no selling value for them. Therefore they dont mind people who play 100's of accounts, since they are getting thousands of searches for, well, free. Once people start complaining though because microsoft flags them for suspected bot abuse, which is pretty much when someone gets a ton of speed capchas, then the people complain to the BBB.

MS realizes they need to make it look like the enforce ToS, so they enforce 1 account/address. Their valued botters are unaffected.

MS has NOTHING to gain by enforcing their ToS, they make more profit when more people are using clubbing, including botters as long as they use vagualy human bots. When legit people who can often type faster than bots are mistaken for bots that are obvious, they get flagged, people complain, MS enforces, etc.[/QUOTE]

That's absurd. Why does MS need to look like they're heavily enforcing the ToS because one person doesn't get a prize? You're creating a scapegoat.
 
[quote name='Whirly']I love how misinformed you are. What is happening is that microsoft is flagging accounts that order to the same address.

Account 1 order to address A
Account 2 order to Address A and Address B
Account 3 order to address b

all 3 accounts flagged, as each address had orders from multiple accounts.

Account 1 orders ONLY to address A
account 2 orders ONLY to address B
account 3 orders ONLY to address C

accounts not flagged

Most botters have ways (i'm not getting into this) of manipulating addresses, so they are getting their prizes since they have unlimited addresses to order to. What happenned was some people decided to complain to the BBB about not getting their stuff, so MS started enforcing the 1 account rule, screwing all you guys.

Honestly, i'm not trying to say who's right or wrong, but the people who went to the BBB screwed you over, not the botters. The botters are getting their prizes, not you guys.

I also think MS knows that this will laregely NOT influence use of their site, since botters run many many more accounts than legit players, and MS knows that the botters will receive their prizes because of manipulation, so they tend to turn a blind eye.[/QUOTE]


I may well be wrong, and you may be right, but I don't think I am completely misinformed. Since all of this only happened in the last week or so anything which we speculate at this point is the result of trying to interpret the tea leaves based on recent prize receipts. There are people that have started new accounts and placed test orders in order to figure this out, but those results won't be in for another three weeks. In the meantime I have not seen anyone post any definitive set of orders/accounts to prove any of these theories. To my knowledge even the people who "manipulate addresses", which is mail fraud and could lead to MS dealing with them via legal channels, are having problems. If you have a set of accounts to support this theory please post them, if anyone has accounts to discredit either of these theories please post those as well.


[quote name='Whirly']Ms makes pure profit out of this as these prizes have no selling value for them. Therefore they dont mind people who play 100's of accounts, since they are getting thousands of searches for, well, free. Once people start complaining though because microsoft flags them for suspected bot abuse, which is pretty much when someone gets a ton of speed capchas, then the people complain to the BBB.[/QUOTE]

Not all of the prizes are worthless to Microsoft. Office and Vista are still selling well, and any of the prizes made by someone other than MS cost them money (or more likely are part of some stuff for software exchange). MS loves the searches, but would rather not send prizes which is why they have a tendency to let abusers earn a whole bunch of tickets for a while and then mass flag accounts.


[quote name='Whirly']MS realizes they need to make it look like the enforce ToS, so they enforce 1 account/address. Their valued botters are unaffected.

MS has NOTHING to gain by enforcing their ToS, they make more profit when more people are using clubbing, including botters as long as they use vagualy human bots. When legit people who can often type faster than bots are mistaken for bots that are obvious, they get flagged, people complain, MS enforces, etc.[/QUOTE]


The real problem with this logic is that there is no 1 account/household rule. There is 1 account/person/day, and 1 prize/household, but those don't add up to 1 account/household. In fact I would bet that MS wants every person in every household in America to have a Live ID. MS would not make a good impression on the BBB by strictly enforcing a rule that does not officially exist.

I do agree however that if all of this is true it is the death of Club Bing, and Bing itself. I remember an old batch of data that showed approximately half of the searches on Live Search were due to LSC. The vast majority of those searches probably come from relatively few die hard users. If MS was to lose half their current search traffic it would drop them back below Yahoo, and back on the brink of irrelevance. The ideal Club Bing user to MS would be someone that is going to sign up, earn a few thousand tickets, and then give up without ordering any prizes, not the person that is going to find the highest dollar value/ticket items and mass order those. I understand their desire to do something about it, but this seems really misguided, and likely to alienate a lot of people MS depends on.
 
I still think the more than one per lives in my house argument will work since their TOS doesn't state 1 account per household but it does state 1 account per person. Their has to be some number you can call to fight for your prizes.
 
Both items I ordered, the basketball and Ogio bag got removed a couple days after I ordered it.. Hopefully it just means it'll come quicker if it comes at all..
 
to be honest I don't think we have any clue what's going on here, I want to believe that it's because a lot of people ordered things and that's why we haven't got our prizes, I've used 3 accounts since I started playing club live back in 2007 and I've recieved every prize to date so far and still waiting on my play and charge kits and 360 controller for windows.

However if this is the case where people aren't getting their prizes because of a few losers who decided to cheat the system through illegal activities then it may very well be the end of club bing! ( However I really hope this isn't the case and we all get our stuff. )
 
[quote name='kvadair'] The vast majority of those searches probably come from relatively few die hard users.[/QUOTE]

As with any other network...

10% of the users are responsible for 90% of the traffic.


I don't know if there's a quantitative law describing this observation but I've found it to be true more often than not.
 
[quote name='meatwad3000']to be honest I don't think we have any clue what's going on here, I want to believe that it's because a lot of people ordered things and that's why we haven't got our prizes[/QUOTE]

It's true that we don't really know what's going on. However, we do know that the number of shipments has been lower than usual this past week or so.
 
Whether it works or not, I'm definitely filing a BBB claim if it turns out I was flagged. I don't really have a problem with being flagged. I understand it's in their TOS that they can stop any prize from shipping. So if they don't want me giving them search hits for prizes, then so be it.

What I do have a problem with is that they don't tell me my account is no longer good. Seriously is it fucking too much to send one email saying I've been flagged. If you have already marked me as a cheater, then why the fuck are you letting me accumulate tickets and ordering prize!

Come next month, CB and me are going to have a email showdown. lol. Probably won't do any good but at least I'll feel a little better after bitching out at CB.
 
[quote name='winterice']If you have already marked me as a cheater, then why the fuck are you letting me accumulate tickets and ordering prize![/QUOTE]

Because, if they told you the truth, you'd stop playing games and generating searches.
 
That's actually why I have multiple accounts. I would order some small ticket items or one big ticket item, then I'd open a new account. That way, if I was flagged after ordering something, I wouldn't be wasting my time on a flagged account. Of course, this was when I thought it was okay to have more than 1 account. Now it seems like Bing isn't too exciting or worthwhile, especially if legit players are getting flagged, although I don't know at what rate.
 
[quote name='TheRobReport']Got my wireless xbox 360 countroller from them yesterday on the 9th of July. Ordered it June 8th[/QUOTE]


Congrats! Do you use more than one account and do you use more than one shipping address?
 
Well, unless earplugs weigh 1lb, I'm thinking I've been flagged. I got everything I ordered before 6/8 on my 3 accounts, but everything after looks like is gone for good. Shame too because I was planning on stopping anyway after I get all the Zune stuff that I really, really wanted. I'll be missing: earplugs, cables, soundbag, charger, and Vista Premium. Oh, and my 20 song downloads x2, ordered around 5/20, never arrived, but I think that's for another reason.
 
[quote name='TheRobReport']Got my wireless xbox 360 countroller from them yesterday on the 9th of July. Ordered it June 8th[/QUOTE]

WTF, I ordered one the day before that and I still haven't gotten it yet. Did you get a email notification for shipping?
 
why do people think that m$ created this prize incentive to generate searches? if it was as simple as searches = more money then we wouldn't have a 1,000 tickets per day limit. this program is supposed to attract new users who will permanently use their search engine, and get friends and family to use it through word of mouth. m$ doesn't care about keeping botters using them, ridiculous.
 
Well, mass flagging doesn't help word-of-mouth. I was high on Live/Bing when I was getting prizes. Now it's time to tell everyone it's crap, seeing as how the search engine is mediocre and the club is getting strict.
 
[quote name='GuyLee']Well, unless earplugs weigh 1lb, I'm thinking I've been flagged.[/QUOTE]
Earplugs weigh 0.30, but I think they appear as 0.60 lb on the tracker because that's what showed up when I checked. I received mine on 7/8, ordered 5/31. I use one account/one address only.
 
[quote name='GuyLee']Well, unless earplugs weigh 1lb, I'm thinking I've been flagged. [/QUOTE]

The last thing that I successfully received was earplugs. The label lists the weight at .21 on my box.

They're lying but that's what it says.
 
I ordered Lost Odyssey.

I really wish they would just zero your account if you were flagged instead of making us wait like this.
 
[quote name='tgk2044']WTF, I ordered one the day before that and I still haven't gotten it yet. Did you get a email notification for shipping?[/QUOTE]
Don't freak out YET, I had to wait about a week longer for my confirmation e-mails. People got e-mails from items ordered on 6/4 when I still hadn't gotten mine from 5/31, but eventually I got them.
[quote name='evanft']I really wish they would just zero your account if you were flagged instead of making us wait like this.[/QUOTE]
That way people would stop playing if they got flagged....Microsoft wants as many searches they can get. They also want as many ways to screw you over as they can.
 
just got a SHIPPING CONFIRMATION on the play and charge kit ordered 6/11

it does require a signature though

YEEAAH :D

UPS tracker says the package weighs 0.80 lbs.

I use more than one account infact this was my 3rd account I have had since club live started and I still
receive prizes so I think this multiple account thing is now in the clear
 
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if you read my edited post it says that it was on my 3rd account I used I got another account i ordered a play and charge with too but if that order went through then most likely my other play and charge kit orders went through too. so by the way things are looking the multi account issue might just be a big misunderstanding.
 
I have three accounts, however, I didn't make the accounts until after I ordered the Play and Charge Kit. I also did not order anything from the other accounts.
 
Well meatwad3000 if you're right then I should be getting my play and charge kit that I ordered on the same day. Except I also ordered pgr 4 on 6/4 and I haven't gotten it or any shipping confirmations, and I also use three accounts.
 
Really there are none. It's 100% free! You don't even have to pay for shipping!
signature_deepthakur.jpg
:)
 
[quote name='meatwad3000']if you read my edited post it says that it was on my 3rd account I used I got another account i ordered a play and charge with too but if that order went through then most likely my other play and charge kit orders went through too. so by the way things are looking the multi account issue might just be a big misunderstanding.[/QUOTE]

No, it's not. I don't think that you fully understand the situation.

Have you played any of the accounts on the same day?
Are you using the same address for the accounts?
If so, you'll develop an appreciation for what's going on when you stop receiving your orders.
 
Gears of War 5/31
Tool Kit 6/1
SceneIt? 2 6/6
Vista Ultimate 6/7
Forza 2 6/7
Too Human 6/11
Play & Charge 6/13
Play & Charge 6/13*

*Ordered to a different address

Used 3 different accounts that I played a lot of the time on the same day. No shipping confirmation, nothing on the tracking site, I'm done with bing. -.- Anyone got a phone number I can call and bitch?
 
Has anyone playing from California with one account receive the 160gb hard drive or DVD player yet? I ordered mine 5/29 & 6/21 respectively and haven't received anything yet. Maybe I'll just have to wait a bit longer. Thanks!
 
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