Coming out as atheist to parents..

[quote name='Capitalizt']I haven't seen any of that.. I'm sure there are a few nutjobs out there, but atheists don't make it a practice to preach to strangers unless they are engaged in a conversation about religion. I haven't seen any atheists riding around on bicycles in suit, tie, and bike helmets passing out copies of Hitchens' latest book. ;) I saw some of those crazy Mormon bastards doing it yesterday.[/QUOTE]

trolling your own topic?

Please, tell us more about how atheist have never pushed their views on others.

BTW Have you ever read anything by the other Hitchens brother, Peter?
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']I haven't seen any of that.. I'm sure there are a few nutjobs out there, but atheists don't make it a practice to preach to strangers unless they are engaged in a conversation about religion. I haven't seen any atheists riding around on bicycles in suit, tie, and bike helmets passing out copies of Hitchens' latest book. ;) I saw some of those crazy Mormon bastards doing it yesterday.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps you missed this exact thread.

An atheist went out of his way to take a video he found and create a new post about it for the purpose of preaching to a bunch of strangers on a forum about how Christians are stupid.
 
[quote name='camoor']That's unfair.

The kid was calmly stating that he didn't believe in his parent's religion.
The mother responds, in true Christian fashion, but grabbing him, pushing him, and threatening him.

Listen I hate whiny idiot teens as much as the next guy. But this kid was just voicing his opinion on his parent's extremely controversial belief system, and his mother's response was extreme, abusive and (unfortunately) all too typical of Christians.[/QUOTE]

Where in my post am I defending anyone's actions? I am merely saying that using this as an example of "representative Christianity" is a little lacking as stuff like this goes on in households every day, whether it be because a kid decides he's atheist, he decides he no longer wants to play sports, he doesn't want to pursue the career path his parents laid out for him, etc.

If this is representative of anything, it's representative of a parent going a little overboard when she finds out her child is growing up and forming his own opinions on things. While reactions may differ, I'm sure it's representative of something just about everyone of us has gone through at some point in our life, as few of us grow up agreeing with our parents in every single instance.
 
[quote name='Cantatus']If this is representative of anything, it's representative of a parent going a little overboard when she finds out her child is growing up and forming his own opinions on things. While reactions may differ, I'm sure it's representative of something just about everyone of us has gone through at some point in our life, as few of us grow up agreeing with our parents in every single instance.[/QUOTE]
Most of us go through it though without our parents threatening to take away Christmas.
 
[quote name='plasticbathmonki']Unlike atheists, scientologists, muslims, jews, hindus and any other system of personal beliefs which use verbal abuse, the legal system and brainwashing.[/QUOTE]

Oh you're absolutely right. Those fucking athiests are out of control. A great example is Creationism vs Darwin's theory of evolution.

Darn those Darwinist intellectuals, with all of their fancy 3-dollar words, Scopes monkey trials, and textbooks that spread commie athiest propaganda. Kirk Cameron is right, don't just listen to the smartest minds on the planet, lose your faith in athiesm and embrace the Jebus!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKrTK_WUiCo&feature=fvst
 
The other month this Chinese guy at work was telling me about how he's upset about his teenage daughter.

The guy is a Buddhist and pretty low-key about it. His daugher decided to become Christian. Well now apparently the daughter is telling him he's going to go to hell if he doesn't convert and really getting under his skin.

To me, this story was a perfect bookend to this internet video. There is a pattern of behavior here and it has nothing to do with young/old.
 
[quote name='camoor']Oh, you're going to see the pattern in every Abrahamic religion (that means Judaism, Islam, and Christianity Bob). Not just Christianity. [/QUOTE]

I can see how that is, when over fifty percent of the world's population identifies with one of the Abrahamic religions. I'm sure you could come up with all kinds of patterns. Just like finding constellations in the stars.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Perhaps you missed this exact thread.

An atheist went out of his way to take a video he found and create a new post about it for the purpose of preaching to a bunch of strangers on a forum about how Christians are stupid.[/QUOTE]

Ah, so any thread on any forum that people voluntarily visit and voluntarily participate in constitutes "preaching" or some form of harassment? Interesting.. We've got a shitload of evangelists here forcing their views on all kinds of crazy topics down our throats don't we?
[quote name='xxDOYLExx']trolling your own topic?

Please, tell us more about how atheist have never pushed their views on others.

BTW Have you ever read anything by the other Hitchens brother, Peter?[/QUOTE]

I have never read any of Peter's stuff but I did watch the debate he did with Christopher...pretty entertaining. And if you can kindly point me in the direction of any atheist organization trying to silence opposing views or lobby the government to restrict the freedoms of private citizens in any way, I'd love to hear about it. In my experience the vast majority of atheist/secular groups are dedicated to opposing these things, and the only "positive" belief that unites them is the desire for a separation of church & state.
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']Ah, so any thread on any forum that people voluntarily visit and voluntarily participate in constitutes "preaching" or some form of harassment? Interesting.. We've got a shitload of evangelists here forcing their views on all kinds of crazy topics down our throats don't we?


I have never read any of Peter's stuff but I did watch the debate he did with Christopher...pretty entertaining. And if you can kindly point me in the direction of any atheist organization trying to silence opposing views or lobby the government to restrict the freedoms of private citizens in any way, I'd love to hear about it. In my experience the vast majority of atheist/secular groups are dedicated to opposing these things, and the only "positive" belief that unites them is the desire for a separation of church & state.[/QUOTE]

read up on your fellow atheist Joseph Stalin.
 
[quote name='dorino']Most of us go through it though without our parents threatening to take away Christmas.[/QUOTE]

Context.
 
[quote name='xxDOYLExx']read up on your fellow atheist Joseph Stalin.[/QUOTE]

lol historyfail.. Rejecting a particular claim in no way draws a path to any particular course of action. Stalin didn't kill to promote disbelief in god any more than he killed in the name of not collecting stamps. Much like Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot, etc..he had other reasons and crazy philosophical justifications that impelled him to expand his empire.

Nobody is saying all atheists are rational.. There are plenty of dumb atheists who hold all sorts of pseudoscientific positions about ghosts, good luck charms, karma, etc. All humans are prone to irrationalism in some areas, and this impulse can extend into the political realm as well. In the case of Stalin, I don't think it's a big stretch to say dogmatic Marxism/communism was his "religion"..and he followed that irrational ideology to it's bloody conclusion. The fact that atheism is compatible with militant communism does not mean it leads to communism. Atheists can be warmongering commies like Stalin or peaceloving hippies like John Lennon...They can be radical left wingers like Karl Marx, or hardcore capitalists like Ayn Rand. With no doctrines, dogmas, or holy books to follow, you simply can't connect the dots from A to B. Positive beliefs are required to motivate people to do anything. Lacking a positive belief doesn't qualify.
 
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[quote name='xxDOYLExx']read up on your fellow atheist Joseph Stalin.[/QUOTE]

lol historyfail.. Rejecting a particular claim in no way draws a path to any particular course of action. Stalin didn't kill to promote disbelief in god any more than he killed in the name of not collecting stamps. Much like Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot, etc..he had other reasons and crazy philosophical justifications that impelled him to expand his empire.

Nobody is saying all atheists are rational.. There are plenty of dumb atheists who hold all sorts of pseudoscientific positions about ghosts, good luck charms, karma, etc. All humans are prone to irrationalism in some areas, and this impulse can extend into the political realm as well. In the case of Stalin, I don't think it's a big stretch to say dogmatic Marxism/communism was his "religion"..and he followed that irrational ideology to it's bloody conclusion. The fact that atheism is compatible with militant communism does not mean it leads to communism. Atheists can be warmongering commies like Stalin or peaceloving hippies like John Lennon...They can be radical left wingers like Karl Marx, or hardcore capitalists like Ayn Rand. With no doctrines, dogmas, or holy books to follow, you simply can't connect the dots from A to B. Positive beliefs are required to motivate people to do anything. Lacking belief doesn't qualify.
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']lol historyfail.. Rejecting a particular claim in no way draws a path to any particular course of action. Stalin didn't kill to promote disbelief in god any more than he killed in the name of not collecting stamps. Much like Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot, etc..he had other reasons and crazy philosophical justifications that impelled him to expand his empire.

Nobody is saying all atheists are rational.. There are plenty of dumb atheists who hold all sorts of pseudoscientific positions about ghosts, good luck charms, karma, etc. All humans are prone to irrationalism in some areas, and this impulse can extend into the political realm as well. In the case of Stalin, I don't think it's a big stretch to say dogmatic Marxism/communism was his "religion"..and he followed that irrational ideology to it's bloody conclusion. The fact that atheism is compatible with militant communism does not mean it leads to communism. Atheists can be warmongering commies like Stalin or peaceloving hippies like John Lennon...They can be radical left wingers like Karl Marx, or hardcore capitalists like Ayn Rand. With no doctrines, dogmas, or holy books to follow, you simply can't connect the dots from A to B. Positive beliefs are required to motivate people to do anything. Lacking belief doesn't qualify.[/QUOTE]

Nice try. You got, got. Take it like a grown up.
 
Your point was refuted doyle. I can basically rephrase your thinking to claim that the lack of belief in Santa Claus necessitates that one go on a killing spree against all mall Santas. Unless you can connect the dots from lack of belief to any positive course of action, I'm afraid you "got got."
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']Your point was refuted doyle. I can basically rephrase your thinking to claim that the lack of belief in Santa Claus necessitates that one go on a killing spree against all mall Santas. Unless you can connect the dots from lack of belief to any positive course of action, I'm afraid you "got got."[/QUOTE]

wait a sec, your the kid in the video aren't you? Now its starting to make sense.

Stalin was motivated by his Atheist beliefs just as much as any "Christian" you have used as an example was motivated by theirs. Stalin was not only an Atheist, he had contempt for anyone who believed. kind of like you.
 
[quote name='xxDOYLExx']wait a sec, your the kid in the video aren't you? Now its starting to make sense.

Stalin was motivated by his Atheist beliefs just as much as any "Christian" you have used as an example was motivated by theirs. Stalin was not only an Atheist, he had contempt for anyone who believed. kind of like you.[/QUOTE]

Still waiting for those dots doyle. Please connect lack of belief in magic man to murder and love of dictatorship. Show me the arrow from one to the other. I can easily find verses in the bible and koran that call for the enslavement and mass murder of nonbelievers. Can you do something similar for people who don't believe in the bible? Lemme know. Kthx.
 
Faith-based atheism? Yes, alas. Atheists display a credulous and childlike faith, worship a certainty as yet unsupported by evidence—the certainty that they can or will be able to explain how and why the universe came into existence. (And some of them can behave as intolerantly to heretics who deviate from their unproven orthodoxy as the most unbending religious Inquisitor.)
Click to expand...

http://www.slate.com/id/2258484
 
[quote name='xxDOYLExx']wait a sec, your the kid in the video aren't you? Now its starting to make sense.

Stalin was motivated by his Atheist beliefs just as much as any "Christian" you have used as an example was motivated by theirs. Stalin was not only an Atheist, he had contempt for anyone who believed. kind of like you.[/QUOTE]

Eh, it seems to me that Stalin was motivated more by political reasons for his persecution of Christians than by any raging atheism. He saw the Orthodox Church (and other religions surely) as a rival to the Communist Party and didn't believe that the loyalty of Church adherents could be trusted.
Though he didn't think ANYONE's loyalty could be trusted anyway... He was a very paranoid man, that brutally turned on anyone and everyone around him.
 
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[quote name='looploop']Eh, it seems to me that Stalin was motivated more by political reasons for his persecution of Christians than by any raging atheism. He saw the Orthodox Church (and other religions surely) as a rival to the Communist Party and didn't believe that the loyalty of Church adherents could be trusted.
Though he didn't think ANYONE's loyalty could be trusted anyway... He was a very paranoid man, that brutally turned on anyone and everyone around him.[/QUOTE]

exactly. He was an evil man who happened to be an atheist. Not a evil man because he was Atheist.
 
[quote name='Quillion']http://www.slate.com/id/2258484[/QUOTE]

duuuude...That is possibly the biggest strawman argument I've ever seen.. a-theism = without theism. That's it.. It says nothing about the ultimate "knowability" of the universe. The default atheist position is simply that theistic claims have yet to meet their burden of proof, and until something is demonstrated as true there is no reason to accept it. Atheism and agnosticism address two completely different questions and are not exclusive at all. Everyone who identifies themselves as "agnostic" is also an atheist (lacks an active belief in a deity) and most atheists are also agnostics.
 
[quote name='Quillion']http://www.slate.com/id/2258484[/QUOTE]

I think this article is really perverting the term athiesm. I know many self-identified athiests who would agree that they can not know for certain whether or not a god exists. I suppose technically they are agnostics. However these people identify as athiests because, based on the available evidence, they don't believe that a god exists. IMO this is perfectly rational and consistent.

Now, militant athiests do exist, I have actually asserted this repeatedly myself, the religion of athiesm.

But come on. As far as loony tunes behavior goes noone steals the crown from the fundies of the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ9MUycYD6Y
 
[quote name='camoor']I think this article is really perverting the term athiesm. I know many self-identified athiests who would agree that they can not know for certain whether or not a god exists. I suppose technically they are agnostics. However these people identify as athiests because, based on the available evidence, they don't believe that a god exists. IMO this is perfectly rational and consistent.

Now, militant athiests do exist, I have actually asserted this repeatedly myself, the religion of athiesm.

But come on. As far as loony tunes behavior goes noone steals the crown from the fundies of the world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZ9MUycYD6Y[/QUOTE]


Hah! Is that woman for real and not an actress? It's as if Ms. Carmody has burst off the screen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJW5dj6fiR0
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']Everyone who identifies themselves as "agnostic" is also an atheist (lacks an active belief in a deity) and most atheists are also agnostics.[/QUOTE]

Not true. One can be agnostic and lean towards the idea that there is a "god", creator, or whatever. They just don't believe anyone has enough information to prove it. An agnostic can also take the stance that no one - atheist or theist - has enough evidence for their claim.
 
The best piece of advice I ever got on this subject was to leave religious matters to the religious minded. Those who choose to argue about it are the same.
 
[quote name='Cantatus']Not true. One can be agnostic and lean towards the idea that there is a "god", creator, or whatever. They just don't believe anyone has enough information to prove it. An agnostic can also take the stance that no one - atheist or theist - has enough evidence for their claim.[/QUOTE]

True. But I do like how one of my high school teachers put it many years ago--"Agnostics are atheists with fire insurance." :D Not confident enough that there's no heaven and hell to take a firm atheist stance.


[quote name='cindersphere']The best piece of advice I ever got on this subject was to leave religious matters to the religious minded. Those who choose to argue about it are the same.[/QUOTE]

Agree 100%. I'll occasionally get in a debate, so I do slip up from time to time. But otherwise I don't see much point in spending time arguing about something I don't believe in.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Richard Dawkins[/QUOTE]
Honestly an intelligent man, but a very vehement hater of all things faith.

Now, the Fundamentalists... HAHAHAHAHAHA.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']True. But I do like how one of my high school teachers put it many years ago--"Agnostics are atheists with fire insurance." :D Not confident enough that there's no heaven and hell to take a firm atheist stance.[/QUOTE]
I consider it less insurance, and more just lack of proof all around. I don't feel comfortable blindly accepting God one way or the other.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']True. But I do like how one of my high school teachers put it many years ago--"Agnostics are atheists with fire insurance." :D Not confident enough that there's no heaven and hell to take a firm atheist stance.[/QUOTE]

Being agnostic myself, I've gotten the whole "fence sitting" thing most of my life. I've been told I "need" to take a firm stance, as if this is some sort of war or sports outing.

For me, it all boils down to lack of evidence either way. I don't see enough evidence that there is some sort of omnipotent being controlling everything, but at the same time, I don't see science explaining enough within my lifetime to convince me there isn't. As far as I see it, I have taken a firm stance, but my stance is just one of "I don't know". I don't see anything lack of confidence in taking that position.
 
[quote name='Cantatus']Being agnostic myself, I've gotten the whole "fence sitting" thing most of my life. I've been told I "need" to take a firm stance, as if this is some sort of war or sports outing.

For me, it all boils down to lack of evidence either way. I don't see enough evidence that there is some sort of omnipotent being controlling everything, but at the same time, I don't see science explaining enough within my lifetime to convince me there isn't. As far as I see it, I have taken a firm stance, but my stance is just one of "I don't know". I don't see anything lack of confidence in taking that position.[/QUOTE]

When it comes to the issue of actively holding a belief, "Yes" and "No" exhaust all of the possibilities buddy. Whether or not you can know with certainty is irrelevant. The next time someone asks you whether you currently believe in god/gods, saying "I'm agnostic" is not an answer. The proper answer (for your position) is "No, I'm agnostic." By definition, if you think something is unknowable, you can't accept it as true. Everything outside actively holding belief means that you don't hold that belief.

If I ask whether you believe in Bigfoot or leprechauns, you would probably be comfortable in saying no, despite the fact that we can't prove the nonexistence of these things. The point is that it is not up to the skeptic to scour the universe and prove that every crazy assertion is unfounded. Until someone asserting the existence of magical beings makes their case, the default position of not believing in it is perfectly justified.
 
I don't believe in any gods, so I'm an atheist. That's all there is to it. If I'm undecided, it still falls into the same category, you have to have a belief to have a belief. Agnosticism traditionally means that it's impossible to know if there is or is not a god/gods. Not only that you don't know, but that you can't know, there is absolutely no way of knowing. In either case though it's a question of knowledge rather than belief, so you can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist.

EDIT: Well I guess that got covered well enough, that's what I get for walking away and then coming back later to hit post.
 
Fair enough, I have no problem with agnostics at all.

I'm just a "put a stake in the ground on every issue and stick to it unless proven wrong" kind of guy personally. So fence sitting isn't my bag on any topic really.
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']When it comes to the issue of actively holding a belief, "Yes" and "No" exhaust all of the possibilities buddy. Whether or not you can know with certainty is irrelevant. The next time someone asks you whether you currently believe in god/gods, saying "I'm agnostic" is not an answer. The proper answer (for your position) is "No, I'm agnostic." By definition, if you think something is unknowable, you can't accept it as true. Everything outside actively holding belief means that you don't hold that belief.[/quote]

If someone were to ask me, my response wouldn't be "No, I'm agnostic", but "I don't know", and that's a perfectly acceptable answer in these circumstances.

As far as accepting something as true or not, just because you think something is unknowable doesn't mean you can't be open to the possibility it exists. Saying you don't think theism is provable, but think the idea is possible are not conflicting ideas.
 
Someone's personal beliefs SHOULDN'T be so important, but they are. My BFF believes in fearies, and in her defense it's never been dis-proven (mind you she is 26 years old, and NOT childish at all). I am always open to hear anyone's beliefs or thoughts, as they are usually very interesting. I wish there were more open minded people, because if we all got together and took notes, we could come up with some awesome religions...

I would love to go to Temple 420 ( a Judeo-Christian Fellowship with the belief in the Ten Commandments. The Fellowship holds Cannabis as a sacrament, as mentioned in both the Old and New Testament, and most specifically in Revelation 22:2 as a plant for the healing of all nations)

although it would be hard to ignore all other faiths, and just believe in just one bible.
 
[quote name='punklivz']My BFF believes in fearies, and in her defense it's never been dis-proven (mind you she is 26 years old, and NOT childish at all).[/QUOTE]

Wait, what? Fairies? Tiny people with butterfly wings? How could they have possibly evolved?
 
I once saw a leprechaun; they're very fiesty little devils. Don't let them bite you; Emergency rooms aren't fun.


Don't drink, kids.

Wait, what? Fairies? Tiny people with butterfly wings? How could they have possibly evolved?
Click to expand...
Very kinky sex.
 
[quote name='looploop']Hah! Is that woman for real and not an actress? It's as if Ms. Carmody has burst off the screen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJW5dj6fiR0[/QUOTE]

Did you ever read the mist? In the book Ms. Carmody is more of a deranged new ager. You ever notice how much Stephen King hates witches and magicians, I think it's a big part of why most of his endings completely suck.
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']If I ask whether you believe in Bigfoot or leprechauns, you would probably be comfortable in saying no, despite the fact that we can't prove the nonexistence of these things. The point is that it is not up to the skeptic to scour the universe and prove that every crazy assertion is unfounded. Until someone asserting the existence of magical beings makes their case, the default position of not believing in it is perfectly justified.[/QUOTE]

Ah, but the rub is that not all mythological/human storytelling creatures are equal. You allow the Abrahamic Religions the same credence as a Shyamalan movie about grunts and scrots, but the weight of billions of adherents demands that they be treated more seriously.

That's without even considering the fact that a great deal of archeological evidence supports at least some of the events described in the various holy texts.
 
[quote name='Quillion']Ah, but the rub is that not all mythological/human storytelling creatures are equal. You allow the Abrahamic Religions the same credence as a Shyamalan movie about grunts and scrots, but the weight of billions of adherents demands that they be treated more seriously.[/QUOTE]

I read alot of silver age comic anthologies when I was a kid, and I remember this being a main theme. Although it really doesn't explain Thor (the Marvel version)
 
If you pick up a Spider Man comic book, you will read about a lot of real places like New York City..real institutions like the NYPD. It even has references to real people like the current president. That doesn't mean a web slinging superhero like spiderman actually exists. Certainly the bible contains references to real places and perhaps some events that actually happened..but extraordinary claims about a *magical* dude from heaven are going to require a bit more than second and thirdhand accounts recorded decades after the fact by people with a vested interest in propagating the myths.
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']If you pick up a Spider Man comic book, you will read about a lot of real places like New York City..real institutions like the NYPD. It even has references to real people like the current president. That doesn't mean a web slinging superhero like spiderman actually exists. Certainly the bible contains references to real places and perhaps some events that actually happened..but extraordinary claims about a *magical* dude from heaven are going to require a bit more than second and thirdhand accounts recorded decades after the fact by people with a vested interest in propagating the myths.[/QUOTE]

I would think most of the faithful would say that the writers of the Bible were given glimpses of the past by God. That and being around the actual eyetwitnesses and hearing stories are enough to connect the dots.

Enough to give first person accounts of an entire man's life? Eh... Enough to put enough facts together. Probably.

You have to make the last leap of faith on your own.
 
[quote name='Capitalizt']If you pick up a Spider Man comic book, you will read about a lot of real places like New York City..real institutions like the NYPD. It even has references to real people like the current president. That doesn't mean a web slinging superhero like spiderman actually exists. Certainly the bible contains references to real places and perhaps some events that actually happened..but extraordinary claims about a *magical* dude from heaven are going to require a bit more than second and thirdhand accounts recorded decades after the fact by people with a vested interest in propagating the myths.[/QUOTE]

Spiderman lives in a parallel universe.
 
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