Concidence? Updated: Arizona doubles in size and the $1.5 Million third of a job

[quote name='perdition(troy']http://otrans.3cdn.net/45593e8ecbd339d074_l3m6bt1te.pdf

Page 5. Projected job loss graph (without red dots for the current job loss totals).

Edit: but hey, since when have you been one to say oh ya, you're right. i'll just wait for the insult about how i'm a troll and you're a random internet jackass.[/QUOTE]


Since these graphs predict the future and also gather data from an alternate reality where the stimulus package didn't exist, then there really is much more then speculation.

It is not speculation to have people actually posting data on project that are taking place and being paid for by the stimulus package that is the difference between recovery.org and your graphs.
 
[quote name='gareman']No. Because you know how many businesses and city/state projects are depending on that money now that it has been promised to them (the suppliers)....you can't just cancel something like that, so no that is not a realistic solution.[/QUOTE]

So - your plan is to sit back, do nothing, and let millions more be spent and be virtually unaccounted for?

[quote name='gareman']Since these graphs predict the future and also gather data from an alternate reality where the stimulus package didn't exist, then there really is much more then speculation.

It is not speculation to have people actually posting data on project that are taking place and being paid for by the stimulus package that is the difference between recovery.org and your graphs.[/QUOTE]

It's not speculation?
Because it seems to me that it's a patchwork of random guesses of where money may or may not have been spent to create jobs.
 
Isn't it great? We decided to piss away 787 billion dollars to "jump start" the economy. In February, when this bill passed, U-3 Unemployment was at 8.1%. Now it's at 10.2%. U-6 was at 16.0%. Now it's at 17.5%. The dollar index has gone from 86 to 75. Then we've "created or saved" (a bullshit form of measurement, if I've ever seen one) 640,329 jobs, some of which may not actually exist. According to recovery.gov, $158,705,328,811 has been given out so far. Also according to recovery.gov 640,329 jobs have been "saved or created." Let's do the math here. $158,705,328,811/640,329=247,849.67 Apparently we have spent nearly $250,000 per job. However, that's only if you decide the bill is about jobs. If you think this bill was supposed to be about improving the country, why not spend the money on better things? Like you know, your whole plan for health care. But of course we didn't, and now there's the talk that we need a new stimulus bill for jobs. You can't just keep patching up the economy with cheap money and expect it to hold. It creates a false sense of security, and hurts the dollar. I wonder what the dollar index will fall to if we have another stimulus? 65? 60?
 
[quote name='UncleBob']So - your plan is to sit back, do nothing, and let millions more be spent and be virtually unaccounted for?
.[/QUOTE]


I agree with the stimulus package. What government process can we take that is a viable option to stop money that has been promised to cities states and companies from a package that was passed by a majority of government officials that was elected by a majority of the citizens?

I also think that this administration has done a pretty superb job accounting for the money and programs they have been funding, but it seems like the more they do to be transparent the more the other side just craps all over every problem. Recovery.org doesn't have to exist, and no one is going to argue that it is a real-time reflection of how and where the money is spent or the jobs it saves/creates. Would rather they take down the site? Would you rather have an administration more akin to Bush's?
 
[quote name='fullmetalfan720']Isn't it great? We decided to piss away 787 billion dollars to "jump start" the economy.[/QUOTE]

Wait until we get to 8-10 years from now. As a result of insane policies such as TARP, the "stimulus" and the health-care bill, to name just three, we will be spending that much EVERY YEAR to cover interest on our debt. At that point, it'll be game over. We won't have enough money being generated in our economy to reduce our debt. Obama's planned budget shows $1+ trillion deficits even at that time, and that's with rosy accounting practices. If we raise taxes enough to cover those kind of fiscal imbalances, we'll destroy our economy completely. The decisions made now will have a devastating impact.
 
Some of you have transparently opportune time to be worried over the deficit and the national debt.

No one really buys the faux concern.

Looking at you especially Prince.
 
"Yeah I hate that Obama guy raising all our taxes on corporations and taking away our freedom one tax dollar at a time". It amazes me that people will literally believe in shit that is blatantly false. And for all these people who love conspiracy theories and are willing to believe almost anything can't trace all these talking points back like 2 degrees and see most of it comes from lobbyists.
 
Yeah prince didn't even deign to include Iraq etc. in his "crazy" spending screed.

His concern is a sad little shtick.
 
[quote name='Msut77']Some of you have transparently opportune time to be worried over the deficit and the national debt.

No one really buys the faux concern.

Looking at you especially Prince.[/QUOTE]
I never liked the cost of the Bush administration's wars or other ridiculous expenditures. Don't play this bullshit game with me.
[quote name='gareman']"Yeah I hate that Obama guy raising all our taxes on corporations and taking away our freedom one tax dollar at a time". It amazes me that people will literally believe in shit that is blatantly false.[/quote]
What is so false about these deficits that are being run, and their effects on this country? These huge spending expenditures, like the trillions in bailouts, and stimulus, are hurting the dollar, and will result in higher taxes, as it costs more to service this new debt.
And for all these people who love conspiracy theories and are willing to believe almost anything can't trace all these talking points back like 2 degrees and see most of it comes from lobbyists.
Click to expand...
Lovely. Is any inconvient fact that you don't like a conspiracy theory, cooked up by lobbyists, now?
[quote name='gareman']http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2...ard-Calls-for-Revolution:-War-Against-America

Check out the budget table that was taken directly from the national budget.....then again it is the dailykos and you know they are liberals.....

edit: the table is about 2/3 down the page.[/QUOTE]
You know what you have to do when tax receipts go down that much? Cut spending. Not piss away an additional 787 billion dollars. Not bailout financial giants. If we keep running a trillion+ dollar deficit each year, things aren't going to be good. Our entire federal income tax already goes to servicing the debt, or waste. (According the the U.S. government's Grace Commission Report.) If we keep raising the national debt, interest will continue to cost more money. Eventually we will have to either raise taxes to a ridiculous amount of income, or inflate our currency to hyperinflationary levels, or we will default on our debt. Of course, we could stop spending so much, but, nah... that won't happen.
 
If there wasn't a stimulus and unemployment was sitting at 15%, would conservatives be happy? There's no way to tell that jobs would've been created or saved if we hadn't spent the money. It's all just philosophical conjecture at this point.

It's like saying the Yankees wouldn't have won the World Series if they hadn't spent so much money. Would they have won without the extra players? Probably not. Can you prove it? Definately not.
 
[quote name='depascal22']If there wasn't a stimulus and unemployment was sitting at 15%, would conservatives be happy? There's no way to tell that jobs would've been created or saved if we hadn't spent the money. It's all just philosophical conjecture at this point.[/QUOTE]

If there wasn't an Iraqi War and Saddam had somehow gotten and used a few nukes against America, would liberals be happy? There's no way to tell that lives would've been saved if we hadn't went to war. It's all just philosophical conjecture at this point.
 
[quote name='depascal22']If there wasn't a stimulus and unemployment was sitting at 15%, would conservatives be happy? There's no way to tell that jobs would've been created or saved if we hadn't spent the money.
[/QUOTE]

While that is likely true, that the stimulus helped some things in the short term, what are they going to cost us long term? Nobody really knows, but imho it's much worse.
 
[quote name='perdition(troy']That same logic was used by Bush as a reason to attack Iraq.[/QUOTE]

No. Bush lied and said that Iraq definately had WMDs. There's a difference between saying that Iraq has WMDs and this stimulus bill might steer America out of a Depression.

The funny thing is that Bush sold both programs so go figure on that one.
 
Speaking of lies eh Bob?

"These are legacy weapons, remnants," Luhan told Global Security Newswire today. He declined to discuss how many weapons were stored in the bunkers or what materials they contained. The weapons are not believed to be in a usable state.
Click to expand...

It is pre Gulf War I, previously accounted for garbage.

Try again.
 
[quote name='elprincipe']Wait until we get to 8-10 years from now. As a result of insane policies such as TARP, the "stimulus" and the health-care bill, to name just three, we will be spending that much EVERY YEAR to cover interest on our debt. At that point, it'll be game over. We won't have enough money being generated in our economy to reduce our debt. Obama's planned budget shows $1+ trillion deficits even at that time, and that's with rosy accounting practices. If we raise taxes enough to cover those kind of fiscal imbalances, we'll destroy our economy completely. The decisions made now will have a devastating impact.[/QUOTE]

Here is a decent description of what I'm talking about with regard to our debt payments situation:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/23/business/23rates.html?hp
With the national debt now topping $12 trillion, the White House estimates that the government’s tab for servicing the debt will exceed $700 billion a year in 2019, up from $202 billion this year, even if annual budget deficits shrink drastically. Other forecasters say the figure could be much higher.

In concrete terms, an additional $500 billion a year in interest expense would total more than the combined federal budgets this year for education, energy, homeland security and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Click to expand...

Now let me ask those of you in favor of another "stimulus" or the health-care bill(s) in Congress, why is this not more important than those things? This issue, if not dealt with, WILL eclipse everything else. We won't have money to ever do something like universal, single-payer health coverage should we choose to do so as a country; on the other hand, for conservatives, we'll never have enough money to be able to cut taxes or increase the defense budget. This trumps everything.

That's why I'm glad to hear Obama talking about taking on the deficit next year. It's a year too late, but better late than never. It does sound terribly disingenuous coming from someone who just pushed through the biggest deficit in history, but I'm still holding out some hope.
 
[quote name='Msut77']Speaking of lies eh Bob?



It is pre Gulf War I, previously accounted for garbage.

Try again.[/QUOTE]

Just sayin', they found something. It's more than nothing.

And, again, I ask, how's that closing of Gitmo going? Jan 22nd is coming pretty quick.
 
Avoiding the question about Guantanamo Bay, I see.

Here, Senior White House officials have answered it for you:
http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/279738

"Senior White House administration officials said on Friday that closing the Guantanamo Bay Prison is very unlikely happen in January 2010 due legal complications."

Hey, look, it's a politician that lies! And look over there, there's some green grass!

More recent info:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/18/AR2009111800571.html?hpid=topnews

BEIJING -- President Obama directly acknowledged for the first time Wednesday that the prison facility at Guantanamo Bay will not close by the January deadline he set, but he said he hoped to still achieve that goal sometime next year.

Obama refused, however, to set a new deadline.

In an interview in the Chinese capital with Major Garrett of Fox News, Obama said he was "not disappointed" that the Guantanamo deadline had slipped, saying he "knew this was going to be hard."
Click to expand...

Interesting. Obama knew this was going to be hard, yet still campaigned on the promise that he'd close GitMo within a year.

It's like how Bush knew we were going to be welcomed with open arms and greeted as liberators... in that what these guys thought was going to happen in their crazy fantasy lands is actually in no way close to the reality.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']Avoiding the question about Guantanamo Bay, I see.[/quote]

So you get nailed to the wall again over being a dishonest little you and that is your response?
 
How was I dishonest? I pointed out that they found WMD's. They found WMD's. I pointed to the exact same source that you quoted. I wasn't trying to hide a single thing. Just saying that they found WMD's in Iraq. It's a fact. You can debate the significance of that discovery, but the fact is, they found them.

Just like the fact is, Guantanamo isn't going to close within a year and Obama is nothing but an ignorant liar. Just like Bush before him and, most likely, just like whomever is elected after him.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']It's a fact.[/quote]

It is what one would call a factoid, the way you use the word it is a fact that millions die every year in hospitals and one would be dishonest to go around pretending as if that means hospitals should be avoided.

That is not even touching your blatant use of false premises.

You can debate the significance of that discovery, but the fact is, they found them.
Click to expand...

Actually no I cannot debate it as there is no debate.

Like I said you have less than nothing.
 
[quote name='UncleBob']depascal - you are aware that, earlier this year, Iraq declared possession of some WMD's, right?
http://www.globalsecuritynewswire.org/gsn/nw_20090427_8248.php

Speaking of lies, how's that closing of GitMo going? About two months out, now, aren't we?[/QUOTE]

You realize that's the same stockpile that we sold them back in the 80's right? Rumsfeld himself flew to Baghdad to negotiate the sale.

You do realize that the war was fought because we thought they had nuclear weapons as well as these chemical weapons?

Oh, never mind. I'll just go back to the talking points.

Faux News sucks donkey nuts and conservatives want illegals to go away but secretly want them to stay so someone can clean the shit off their toilet bowls.
 
For some reason Bob to gets really whiny when you don't just let him change the subject at will to simply make him feel better about himself.
 
[quote name='Msut77']For some reason Bob to gets really whiny when you don't just let him change the subject at will to simply make him feel better about himself.[/QUOTE]

Funny. I thought this topic was pretty much about the lies told by the Obama administration.
 
Obama_hope-nosisL.gif
 
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