Do you think capitalism, as it is now, will fail in the next 100 years?

As it is now? It already is.

Is is 'failing' or merely shifting into a global economy is another question entirely, however.

It will be interesting to see how markets shift when there are no longer any cheaper sources of labor to exploit. Flint, MI -> Mexico -> China -> ???; there will inevitably be a stopping point, I believe, at which corporations can no longer artificially inflate their portfolios and profit margins by cutting costs instead of increasing sales.

But, before all that, America's massive crushing debt (not speaking in term of federal misspending, but, rather, the increasing need to supplement one's income with a credit card in order to make ends meet in the current economic climate) will cause some severe damage. Economists are too scared to say it right now, but I genuinely believe the US is heading not for just a recession, but a depression.

One major change I think we're beginning to see is that the DJIA and stock markets are indicators of something, to be sure, but they are undoubtedly NOT indicators of the financial well-being of the average American. We seem to falsely connect the strength and direction of the stock market as an indicator that things are going swimmingly for the average person - then we fail to realize how artificial and damaging that perspective is when we have "jobless recoveries" like the previous Bush recession ended.

But, all that said, I do need some new running shoes, so I will spend a small portion of my George W. Bush $150 Billion buyout.
 
I disagree. Capitalism is inherently exploitive and unfair, it's doing exactly what theorists predicted.

Max Weber would say that because of the formal rationalization of our lives that there's no way to even escape the vicious capitalism, and that we are trapped.
 
The credit card debt issue is going to be a major problem here in the usa. Interestingly enough, the BBC had an article stating that the British have a WORSE credit card debt problem than Americans...
 
I can't imagine a modern period that would better illustrate the failings of capitalism than the last 10 years. Free market my ass.

And yet, the ball keeps rollin and the world keeps spinning.
 
[quote name='tokitoki50']I disagree. Capitalism is inherently exploitive and unfair, it's doing exactly what theorists predicted.

Max Weber would say that because of the formal rationalization of our lives that there's no way to even escape the vicious capitalism, and that we are trapped.[/QUOTE]

Thats what I think as well. There are good times and bad times in this type of economy. Many have rejected capitalism because it is so volatile, but the FED can hopefully minimize the bad time and keep the good times rolling. People are complaining about our economy now, but I bet they weren't in the 1990's.
 
I just think that with the way capitalism is headed now, there will be a point where you hit a ceiling and no further growth can take place due to greed.
 
In the information age where everything is about short-term profits and the grand majority of executives couldn't care less about the quality of life for their transient work force, alot of stupid business decisions are being made.

Capitalism is the worst economic system out there, except for all of the others. That's why I still don't think it's going to change.
 
Pure Capitalism basically failed in 1929, we have had a mixed system since then that has worked out pretty darn good. Most of the problems we have now result from attempts at creating unregulated institutions.
 
[quote name='Msut77']Pure Capitalism basically failed in 1929, we have had a mixed system since then that has worked out pretty darn good. Most of the problems we have now result from attempts at creating unregulated institutions.[/quote]

Also monopolies and cartels.
 
[quote name='dopa345']Well the only other alternative, Communism, has clearly failed so capitalism will win out by default.[/quote]

What about socialism? It's like Communism that isn't run by gangsters like Stalin.

How bad off is Sweden?
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']What about socialism? It's like Communism that isn't run by gangsters like Stalin.

How bad off is Sweden?[/QUOTE]

Just ignore the fake Doctor/MBA/Rocket Scientist.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']What about socialism? It's like Communism that isn't run by gangsters like Stalin.

How bad off is Sweden?[/QUOTE]

Sweden's system couldn't support a population of America's.

When I was in Sweden I felt very broke, because everything was several times more expensive than here.

A nanny state of unmotivated, government check collecting, complacency rewarded people is not the answer.

True socialism really doesn't work unless there is a way to guarantee everyone participating is not greedy or corrupt. Which is why it seems to work best in small secluded extremist groups and cults.
 
[quote name='Msut77']Just ignore the Doctor/MBA/Rocket Scientist.[/QUOTE]

You give me too much credit. Just an MD/MBA, though I did ace physics in undergrad.

Capitalism at least takes into account human nature. Work your butt off, create a product or service that's new or improves on an existing product and let the free market decide what it's worth. At least capitalism promotes innovation. Can anyone name a leading corporation that originated in Sweden? Soviet Russia?
 
[quote name='dopa345']Can anyone name a leading corporation that originated in Sweden?[/QUOTE]

IKEA?

Guess you never got acquainted with them while attending fake medical school and fake grad school.
 
[quote name='dopa345']You give me too much credit. Just an MD/MBA, though I did ace physics in undergrad.

Capitalism at least takes into account human nature. Work your butt off, create a product or service that's new or improves on an existing product and let the free market decide what it's worth. At least capitalism promotes innovation. Can anyone name a leading corporation that originated in Sweden? Soviet Russia?[/QUOTE]

Ikea?
 
[quote name='speedracer']IKEA. Hmm. My first thought was Volvo and Saab. Guess I'm old.[/QUOTE]

Does ABBA and/or ABBA count?
 
[quote name='speedracer']IKEA. Hmm. My first thought was Volvo and Saab. Guess I'm old.[/QUOTE]

Saab is now owned by GM and Volvo is owned by Ford. Probably couldn't afford the high Swedish taxes ;)

Ikea is the only large corporation that is still Swedish. But, next time you are in an Ikea and are bored, pick up random products and notice where they are made. You are likely to find very very few actually made in Sweden, as the prices would have to jump much higher if they were.

Almost all the furniture is made in poor eastern european countries, and the middle east. The only thing I could find that was made in Sweden was cloudberry jam.
 
Ikea is also a Dutch registered company so it's technically not Swedish, but what the heck let's count it. I'll see your Ikea, Volvo and Saab and raise with a Microsoft, General Electric, Apple, General Motors, Boeing, Google, Coca-Cola....
 
[quote name='dopa345']Ikea is also a Dutch registered company so it's technically not Swedish, but what the heck let's count it. I'll see your Ikea, Volvo and Saab and raise with a Microsoft, General Electric, Apple, General Motors, Boeing, Google, Coca-Cola....[/quote]

Can people still brag about Microsoft and General Motors?
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Can people still brag about Microsoft and General Motors?[/QUOTE]

As examples of large very successful corporations that got that way, in large part, because of the country they were founded, yes.
 
[quote name='dopa345']Ikea is also a Dutch registered company so it's technically not Swedish, but what the heck let's count it. I'll see your Ikea, Volvo and Saab and raise with a Microsoft, General Electric, Apple, General Motors, Boeing, Google, Coca-Cola....[/quote]

Well you wouldn't really expect a small country with 1/30 of the population of the US to anywhere near compare in the number of companies anyway, even if they emphasized it as much (which they don't). That doesn't mean that they don't have any though, as you originally implied.

Apparently the Ericsson of Sony Ericsson and Astra of AstraZeneca are Swedish as well, although I don't know if you're counting mergers or joint operations, but that doesn't have anything to do with innovation, which is what you were talking about. But anyway, Sweden has innovated in the areas of telecommunications and pharmaceuticals, at the very least.

And btw, only the car division of Volvo is owned by Ford, they make more than just cars.

None of this proves anything about capitalism, socialism, or innovation (especially since neither Sweden nor the US are entirely capitalist or socialist), but if you want to have a pissing match about it then I'll at least try to correct you where you're wrong.
 
[quote name='Msut77']IKEA?

Guess you never got acquainted with them while attending fake medical school and fake grad school.[/quote]

[quote name='mykevermin']Ikea?[/quote]

[quote name='speedracer']IKEA. Hmm. My first thought was Volvo and Saab. Guess I'm old.[/quote]

Triple trouble!

Founded in Sweden by a Swede. According to wiki (fuck) the Stichting Ingka Foundation was only founded in 1982. I'll call in favor of the three.
 
I saw the current recession coming back in Fall 2006, but at the current rate I am fearing a depression since the government isn't taking the right course of action.

Capitalism as it is now? 100 years ago capitalism was completely different. Take a capitalist from 1908 and see if his methods work today and I can tell you it would indeed fail. So yes, if capitalism as it is now will fail in 100 years, but capitalism itself will not.
 
[quote name='djkunai']Take a capitalist from 1908 and see if his methods work today and I can tell you it would indeed fail.[/QUOTE]

fuck you. My patented Wonder Tonic will take off eventually. More people need to know that it stimulates hair growth, wards off polio, botulism, and the Irish, and also makes your children smarter, provided they have an adequate schoolmarm.

Adequate, I tells ya.
 
[quote name='mykevermin']fuck you. My patented Wonder Tonic will take off eventually. More people need to know that it stimulates hair growth, wards off polio, botulism, and the Irish, and also makes your children smarter, provided they have an adequate schoolmarm.

Adequate, I tells ya.[/QUOTE]

I drink your tonic. I drink it up.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']As examples of large very successful corporations that got that way, in large part, because of the country they were founded, yes.[/quote]

Microsoft got big because IBM chose its operating system over CP/M and Apple was happy with being a niche competitor. In the last decade, Microsoft has been flailing in a futile attempt to stay on top.

GM got big because oil/gasoline was cheap and their workers were willing to forgo today's pay for tomorrow's retirement pay and health benefits. Now that workers are living for decades after retirement and car companies like Toyota can make the same vehicle for less, GM is trying to outrace Chrysler and Ford to bankruptcy.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Microsoft got big because IBM chose its operating system over CP/M and Apple was happy with being a niche competitor. In the last decade, Microsoft has been flailing in a futile attempt to stay on top.

GM got big because oil/gasoline was cheap and their workers were willing to forgo today's pay for tomorrow's retirement pay and health benefits. Now that workers are living for decades after retirement and car companies like Toyota can make the same vehicle for less, GM is trying to outrace Chrysler and Ford to bankruptcy.[/QUOTE]

That's all fine.

But more to the point of the OP, none of that would have likely happened had we had the taxation and socialist system like that of scandanavia. Which is why nobody can name a Swedish corporation just as big as GM or Microsoft.

Not only does the high taxation hurt corporate growth, but more importantly it hurts motivation.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']Microsoft got big because IBM chose its operating system over CP/M and Apple was happy with being a niche competitor. In the last decade, Microsoft has been flailing in a futile attempt to stay on top.

GM got big because oil/gasoline was cheap and their workers were willing to forgo today's pay for tomorrow's retirement pay and health benefits. Now that workers are living for decades after retirement and car companies like Toyota can make the same vehicle for less, GM is trying to outrace Chrysler and Ford to bankruptcy.[/QUOTE]

One of the reasons GM got so big was that they conspired to dismantle trolley and other mass transportation systems.

Not that any information will stop thrust from furiously moving those goalposts.
 
Not to mention that Microsoft lets say...."borrowed" some technology from Apple during their partnership time. Even though i'm a MS fanboy, i have to admit that they obviously got some ideas from Apple. If you can call that hard work, than i need to redefine my idea of hard work.
 
About the actual thread subject, i think capitalism will survive solely because it's natural. In nature, a lion doesn't become the alpha male by caring, it gets there by killing the competition. I think that is the heart of capitalism, it's just unfortunate that we can't have both that and compassion for others. Sure, corporations make little symbolic efforts to make people think they care, but they're largely nothing but a PR stunt.

Even charities can't be completely trusted to help the people they're dedicate to helping. You'd be amazed at how much of the donations never make it to the people in need.
 
[quote name='Msut77']
Not that any information will stop thrust from furiously moving those goalposts.[/QUOTE]


I'm not the one moving the goal posts, I've been attempting to stick to the claim of Sweden's better system.

The issue isn't how these corporations got big. The goal posts I'm addressing is if Sweden is a superior system, why don't they have/allow the development and growth of similarly successful corps?

Or is the argument some of you are trying to make that allowing mega-corps in the first place is a mistake?


[quote name='JolietJake']Not to mention that Microsoft lets say...."borrowed" some technology from Apple during their partnership time. Even though i'm a MS fanboy, i have to admit that they obviously got some ideas from Apple. If you can call that hard work, than i need to redefine my idea of hard work.[/QUOTE]

Not that it matters, but Apple "borrowed" many ideas from Xerox, Atari and others as well, to create their so-called revolutionary GUI.

The only consistent inovations I've seen come out of Apple are making things appeal to the vain.
 
[quote name='fatherofcaitlyn']What about socialism? It's like Communism that isn't run by gangsters like Stalin.

How bad off is Sweden?[/QUOTE]

The above is the post I have been replying to and discussing.

[quote name='Msut77']I assure you that you are.[/quote]
So knowing that, then please diagram out for me how I am "moving goal posts"?


It sure is.
Click to expand...

How?

Or are you still just trying to be contrary and argumentative without logical reason?
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']So knowing that, then please diagram out for me how I am "moving goal posts"?[/QUOTE]

The original question had to do with naming a single dominant Swedish corporation and then about Sweden not being a bad place to live. You have attempted to take that and run with it off the field past the bleachers onto the highway by asking wankerific questions that have a variety of possible answers.

How?
Click to expand...

GM's success is due in at least part to extreme shadiness, that most definitely matters when discussing how successful US corporations especially when you are ostensibly arguing it is due almost exclusively to the greatness of the American system.

Or are you still just trying to be contrary and argumentative without logical reason?
Click to expand...

How the hell you can type that without your computer exploding from the rank hypocrisy is beyond me.
 
ive opened a paypal account to accept donations to pay for plane tickets for msut77 and thrustbucket to fly to a neutral location and fight to the death.


msut vs thrust the battle of the disgust coming to oklahoma city october 2008
 
[quote name='RAMSTORIA']ive opened a paypal account to accept donations to pay for plane tickets for msut77 and thrustbucket to fly to a neutral location and fight to the death.


msut vs thrust the battle of the disgust coming to oklahoma city october 2008[/QUOTE]

You know what happens when matter meets anti-matter? Yeah, it would be like that.
 
[quote name='Msut77']You know what happens when matter meets anti-matter? Yeah, it would be like that.[/QUOTE]

the donations are already pouring in.
 
[quote name='Msut77']You know what happens when matter meets anti-matter? Yeah, it would be like that.[/QUOTE]

Actually, I'm pretty passive. Even though I have a concealed carry permit, I have never carried.

If we fought to the death, I'd likely just sit there and let you beat on me while I focused my energies, channel love at you, charge my chakra's, and open my third eye to ascend to something better. ;)
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']Actually, I'm pretty passive. Even though I have a concealed carry permit, I have never carried.

If we fought to the death, I'd likely just sit there and let you beat on me while I focused my energies, channel love at you, charge my chakra's, and open my third eye to ascend to something better. ;)[/quote]

Yoga Flame!

DhalSF3.JPG
 
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