Downloading Music vs Pirating Games: Is there a difference?

Copyright infringement is NOT theft. Again: Copyright infringement is NOT theft. As much as the RIAA would like everybody to believe otherwise.
 
any argument that is based on the idea that people should be able to get stuff that is privately owned for free might as well accept the fact that that logic leads straight into slavery or communism. the truth is the music industry has every right to sue any and all individuals that is getting their content for free that should be paid for. you can argue about property rights, get philosophical or realize that in capitalism, goods and services are exchange for something of value, not taken for nothing.

BUT, as mch as filesharing is not a legitimate means of getting music, it should be. rather than pursuing filesharers as criminals, the music industry should be embracing filesharing for what it is and the potential it represents: free advertising more powerful than the radio and more intrusive than television. how do people know what they want to listen to, what they like or what they might get into, you borrow your friends cd, or you go to a concert or maybe, in that rare case, the radio plays something good that has not been played to death. the internet allows music companies to reach out to all the disillusioned, pop-sick music lovers out there who are good consumers in want of good product. i for one have downloaded hundreds of songs in the past 5 years and in that time have spent far far more than i had before or i otherwise would have because i found the music that i like that i enjoy and that i am willing to buy

so how is this different with games, with games, there is no such thing as a backlist, that is, a game is hot for a few months, maybe comes out as a hits title a year later and then its gone, and its certainly gone by the time the next console gen comes out or pcs are significantly upgraded down the line, similarly, with the exception of a few celebrity games designers, there is no "artist" that one follows and enjoys i games, so downloading one game, will not have a correlation of buying other. again, my point is not that it is right, but t can be used as a ridiculously powerful marketing tool and that tool just is not effective as video games or computer games. would companies benefit from releasing an old game for free when the sequel comes out, i think so, because it will get more gamers excited about the upcoming game or people who missed out earlier, but if you take it into your own hands, you are in the wrong- even if you feel the publisher has their heads up their asses
 
The reason the RIAA want file sharing gone, of course, is not that they are afraid their own music will be shared; rather, they're afraid indie music will get more exposure.

Imagine a world where musical tastes are formed according to merit, not clearchannel...
 
I do both.....sorta.

I have dled music because i think its stupid to spend $10+ for a cd when i only like one song. i dont dl cds and if i like enough songs on a cd ill buy the whole thing. im just not spending 15 dollars for one song i think is "ok".

and i dont pirate games per se. i use roms. i dont use roms for curent systems (MAME excluded). the earliest i use roms is snes and genesis, and only for hard to find games that i dont feel like spending a fortune on at ebay. i mostly dl roms to expand my horizons and try out new stuff. like ET for Atari 2600. i couldnt resist.
 
ill copy music not games. The reson is 25$ isnt a good price for 13 tracks in 78 min. however a video game for 10-50$ with 10-100 hours of play is worth the money.
 
To add something to what Defender said above:

Yeah, a lot of music stores are suffering rigth now and closing. But that isn't necessarily related to Downloaders/Pirates/Thieves, whatever.

I used to manage a music store and, subsequently, spent a lto fo time bullshitting with label reps. The music industry has done a great job of shooting itself in the foot over and over again this past couple years.

A small list of things they've done:

--Raised the avergae price for new CDs by as much as fve dollars.

--Drastically slashed their budgets with regards to finding and developing new talent, and developing their B-list talent.

--Drastically slashed advertising and promotions for all but "tried and true" and hotlist artists.

They decided three years ago to basically just bunker down and spend the money on only the most popular artists they had, and to skip any deviation ro exploration (even more than they had been.0

So they lost money. This was a shitty plan. And now they're blaming it on Pirates/etc, and suing people.

Are File swappers buying fewer albums, maybe, maybe not. Maybe they're just buying albumsmor ecarefully, but in the same volume. I know I am. I download music from an album before I buy it to sample it, if I like it I'll buy the album. If it sucks I delete the files. I have way less buyer's remorse these days.
 
The copyright system is broken. It's meant to encourage new artistic works. But instead it just became a cash machine for recording companies that offer almost no innovation in their quest for profit. Special-interest groups like the RIAA have been exploiting the system for years, clearing the path for record labels to monopolize all avenues to the public and make bands sell over all their rights to get access to these public forums.

Right now, games are still more of a level playing field with third party rights, much more variety, and much more value placed in each video game (especially because games can be resold or traded). Hold onto these rights ppl, because the future is looking grim EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS ARTICLE ------> http://curmudgeongamer.com/article.php?story=20040113221322445
 
I have boycotted all RIAA products. I know I am only one person against a multitude, but what I choose to do is 100% legal and I can get by with internet radio (ahhhh internet radio :)))
 
i read through most of these points, and would like to state my opinion on the topic. not so much that anyone will care, but just because i am right.

downloading music or games or movies even are all very similar, and the same set of rules applies to them. it's ok to download music/games if:

1 - the cd/game is out of print.
2 - the cd/game is not available in your country.
3 - a "try before you buy" situation (assuming that if you like what you try, you go out and buy).

that's about it. any cds/games that are currently available should not be downloaded in place of being bought. on the other hand, downloading is a great way to find out if you will enjoy a cd (or even a game) before purchasing it. it's easier to rely on reviews of games than it is on cds, because it seems like most of the people that review cds like horrible music (the great reviews of horrible albums such as outkast, the yeah yeah yeahs, and any other "hot" and/or "new" band come to mind), but usually people who review games are pretty on target. that being said, if you do download a song/game that is currently available, and you enjoy it and listen to/play it often, you should go out and buy that cd/game. no so much because the law should require you to, but just because that if you do enjoy it, you should want your money to go to something worthwhile.

on another note, there are those people who whine about "there's only one good song, the rest of the cd is crap" or whatever. i would like to go on record stating that if you listen to a song by some horrible band/artist/person/whatever, and you know that it is their only good song, you are a loser. there is enough good music available that you don't have to waste your time listening to some half assed band who made one "good" song. if the band can't write more than one good song, then don't listen to them. they suck. they shouldn't be allowed to make music anymore. instead, they should be set on fire.

i propose that there should only be 10 or so cds that come out every month, at the most. that way, all the bad music that comes out would be cut down. the oversaturation of every genre would die out, and everything would be ok. computers are killing music, but not because you can download things for free, but because they have made it so much esaier for some stupid kid to get together with his stupid friends and start a band called something like "the ashes from the embers" or "a winter time denial" and whine about how his mom wouldn't let him go to the skating rink last friday night to meet up with his 14 year old girlfriend. bad music needs to stop, and it will only stop if people stop buying it. unfortunately, that doesn't look to be anytime soon.

so, in closing, stop downloading things you knuckleheads.
 
Guys,

I don't really feel like writing a huge post for this subject, but I'll let you know some things that you may not have considered. My father has been a record exec for RCA Records, BMG, Sony (just had his contract bought out last Saturday) for over 30 years, so I do have a different perspective on this subject.

Have record companies been short-sighted? YES.
Have record companies been slow to react to downloading music? YES.
Have you been overcharged for cds? Well this one is difficult to answer. When you consider everything that used to create a cd, the salaries of everyone involved (not just musicians, but sales and marketing staff), the marketing of the cd, the money that has to be paid to Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. to put the cd on their so-called 'Power Wall' and end-caps, among other things. This is where a large portion of the money goes. The artist doesn't make that huge percentage off of each cd. In many cases it's pennies.
Other places the money goes, development costs for other artists. Putting out cds for artists that will not sell much. There are thousands of cds put out by each company, each year. Very few of those are profitable, but the public gets diversity, and eventually, if developed properly, will be profitable for the company. A perfect example of this is Dave Matthews. This is no longer taking place, with very limited budgets, you are getting fewer choices.
Another thing killing the industry: When you pick up a Best Buy, Circuit City, Target ad, what is the first section you look for? Guessing by this site, it's games, but for the majority of the public, it's dvd's. Ten years ago, cd's covered 5+ pages in these advertisements, now it's barely a third of a page. My point is, that encroachment by other types of media have also taken a bite out of the music industry's pie. There are only so many dollars that you are going to spend in a typical month, and most people don't use them on cd's (at least not any more).

Each year, the top grossing album of the year is much less than the previous year. Each year the music landscape is more and more pop dominated (this is what is a sure seller).

The music industry won't die, but it's in a tremendous recession. Your choices will be fewer, the quality of music will decline, and when you get older you'll talk about the good old days. These things are cyclical, and eventually there will be a new movement, a new artist that will lead a new charge, and will hopefully bring change for a little while.

I'm not telling anyone to stop downloading music. It's a pandora's box of sorts. It's too late to tell people to stop. The music industry has to adapt and develop new strategies, but this can take many years. I'm just glad that my father is now in the twilight of his career, because things will continue to get worse before they get better.

Just my 2cents.
 
Just something similar I'd like to share since I've seen it argued in comic book forums I frequent (I also have a large collection of them).

Some argue since a comic isn't "in print" or "locally available" downloading scans is "okay" since they're "not hurting anyone", same argument I've heard about ROMs, etc. You are making a copy of a physical entity, both are wrong.

If you really want to go play Atari 2600 games, why not go get an old 2600 at a flea market and a stack of cartridges for 50 cents each? Trying to justify it because the game isn't "current generation" is just you justifying it to yourself so it's "okay".

You may say "I can't go buy old arcade machines!", and you're right. But they were never manufactured for home ownership really, not unless you had a coupel grand to drop. Just because you CAN copy games/download ROMs/doesn't mean you should.

BTW, I'm not saying I'm an absolute saint - but I've been a gamer since the TI-99/4A and every system I owned I bought tons of games for. I have (an unmodded) PS2 currently and over 150 original games for it. I do wish sometimes I kept all those old games though for other systems. ;)
 
[quote name='Venent']The music industry won't die, but it's in a tremendous recession. Your choices will be fewer, the quality of music will decline, and when you get older you'll talk about the good old days. These things are cyclical, and eventually there will be a new movement, a new artist that will lead a new charge, and will hopefully bring change for a little while.[/quote]

Hopefully, that artist will have nothing to do with RIAA members.

After seeing what the RIAA is doing with its money to hurt honest customers and people in general, there's no way I'm giving any RIAA members any of my money.

Riaa Radar ( http://www.magnetbox.com/riaa/ ) lets you know whether any CD is RIAA infected. CD Baby ( http://www.cdbaby.com/ ) is a store that only deals with non-RIAA music, and has quite a bit of music to sample so you can make an informed decision.
 
[quote name='Ecks']
If you really want to go play Atari 2600 games, why not go get an old 2600 at a flea market and a stack of cartridges for 50 cents each? Trying to justify it because the game isn't "current generation" is just you justifying it to yourself so it's "okay".

You may say "I can't go buy old arcade machines!", and you're right. But they were never manufactured for home ownership really, not unless you had a coupel grand to drop. Just because you CAN copy games/download ROMs/doesn't mean you should.[/quote]

I completely agree with you, but I also want to add to the fray, that if you want to play atari/intellivision games, there are now collections that allow you to do so on your modern generation console as well. The Activision Anthology and Intellevision Lives! are great examples of how you can achieve this, even WITHOUT an old console.

As far as old arcade games, there are countless legal collections that feature everything from PONG to Street Fighter II (insert edition of choice). They're available across consoles, as well as PC, and even Namco has their own built into a stand-alone unit as well. Also, there are several companes selling the roms on an INDIVIDUAL basis as well.

There are several LEGAL avenues to travel down, there really aren't any reasons to be attempting to justify the use of ROMs.
 
[quote name='Ecks']If you really want to go play Atari 2600 games, why not go get an old 2600 at a flea market and a stack of cartridges for 50 cents each? [/quote]

Because then you'd have another box of stuff to take with you whenever you move (like I do now).

Sometimes owning software which can run on different machines is preferable to owning physical media which can only run on one type of machine.

Isn't it great how all those Infocom games I bought can run on pretty much any hardware, like a Mac or a Palm or Psion handheld or even a Dreamcast? It would be great to also have the original packaging (with the 'feelies') if it was still available and could disappear when you didn't want it and reappear if you did. Unfortunately, physical objects don't quite behave this way.
 
[quote name='BigDirty']As far as old arcade games, there are countless legal collections that feature everything from PONG to Street Fighter II (insert edition of choice). They're available across consoles, as well as PC, and even Namco has their own built into a stand-alone unit as well. Also, there are several companes selling the roms on an INDIVIDUAL basis as well.
[/quote]

Those collections really don't cover everything, and sometimes they have glaring bugs that make the games behave differently or even bigger problems (like the huge reset buttons on one of those 10-in-1s (Atari? Activision?).

But I actually wanted to ask you about those "several companies" selling roms. As far as I know, there's only one ( http://www.starroms.com/ ). What are the others?
 
BigDirty, you're right, just forgot to include that in my message. I've got Activision Anthology for the PS2, and some other games, like Prince of Persia, even include the old game on it.

One other knock against emulation, is most people that are "into" it download EVERY ROM in existance, including Game Boy Advance, which isn't justifiable in any sense, as those games are still sitting there on shelves!
 
[quote name='eldad9']It would be great to also have the original packaging (with the 'feelies') if it was still available and could disappear when you didn't want it and reappear if you did. Unfortunately, physical objects don't quite behave this way.[/quote]

You're right, but when you choose to get rid of something, you don't have it anymore. I recently sold a few hundred CD's to a used record store, and they're gone - I can't listen to them anymore. (And I didn't back them up or rip them - I rarely listen to music anymore.)

I'm not saying emulation isn't neat and convienent, and I did try that with Infocom games (but found it difficult to play without all the stuff they always included in the boxes), I'm just saying it's not right.

My argument is, people can copy games, ROMs, whatever, so long as they admit they're doing something shady - it's the people that try to make a point justifying it and saying "this is the right thing to do!" The internet makes copying things quick and easy and thoughtless. Comic book scans, books converted to eBooks format, movies and tv shows, porn, all those are being copied too. I'm sure there are some other things I'm not thinking of too.
 
Ten years ago, cd's covered 5+ pages in these advertisements, now it's barely a third of a page. My point is, that encroachment by other types of media have also taken a bite out of the music industry's pie.
Click to expand...

Maybe cd's filled out ads 10 years ago because there were no DVDs and video games came in cart form and weren't nearly as mainstream as they are now. There were also hardly any CD burners available to the common public, put simply CDs were the relatively young technology that people wanted a piece of and that's no longer the case. Still, Saying that other media is "encroaching" on the music industry is a little rash. You cannot fault other companies and industries for making and creating new technology. It is the way the way the modern world works. I bet people in the radio business got kinda pissed when TV rolled around, but are we going to say that we don't want to watch TV? The music industry was responible for oversaturating the technology market with the format of CDs to begin with, by the mid to late 90s everything was a CD. Other industries looked past that and advanced the technology, the music industry did not advance with them and has since been left in the cold.
 
[quote name='eldad9']
But I actually wanted to ask you about those "several companies" selling roms. As far as I know, there's only one ( http://www.starroms.com/ ). What are the others?[/quote]

Hanaho/Capcom have a package together for owners of Arcade PCs. It's a limited distribution, but still another method of delivery.
 
[quote name='suprsaiyanMAX']
Ten years ago, cd's covered 5+ pages in these advertisements, now it's barely a third of a page. My point is, that encroachment by other types of media have also taken a bite out of the music industry's pie.
Click to expand...

Maybe cd's filled out ads 10 years ago because there were no DVDs and video games came in cart form and weren't nearly as mainstream as they are now.[/quote]

10 years ago, CD players were relatively new, and many people felt a need to buy the music they owned ALL OVER AGAIN in a new format. Right now, only new releases are new on CD formats. (and some of them are not even CDs but try to trick you to thinking they are so that you buy them - like any "protected" music disc).
 
[quote name='Ecks']I'm not saying emulation isn't neat and convienent, and I did try that with Infocom games (but found it difficult to play without all the stuff they always included in the boxes), I'm just saying it's not right.
[/quote]

After the first games, Infocom added information in the package that was ESSENTIAL to complete the games (coordinates, maps of catacombs, etc).

Some of the official rereleases either missed this information completely or had it in a digital-only format that left a lot to be desired, quality-wise.

Ironically, it was left up to the fans of these games to provide the necessary information ( http://infodoc.plover.net/ ).
 
[quote name='defender']omg...I just went to that link downhillbattle...what a shame!

And to think that 30 year ago our parents...some of your grandparents were protesting for Civil Rights and to end war....

kids today are protesting to get free music![/quote]

It's a damn shame.. maybe our country needs to get involved in an international war to get things into perspective again.. oh wait.. =(

No matter if its games or music, this country was founded on the basis of capitalism and self-gain whether personal or in business is going to change that... I'm sure someones mentioned this but this isn't the first time a recording industry has reacted towards technology *cough* VCRs and video tapes, audio cassettes cough* Cd-Rs even the TV when it first came out (because it threatened to steal the movie going audience).

I really don't think there is a way to stop 'piracy' or copyright infringment. They're basically trying to stop the innate human desire to get things more easily and at less effort and cost. Of course, it would be easy for someone to just go steal a neighbor's car, or grab a CD off the shelf or what, but those are tangible, physical and therefore generally accepted morally wrong.

But..what are these bits floating around electromagnetically stored and easily sent around? You can't make a true analogy to anything else really, because it is unlike anything before it. I guess that's why theres so much debate with cloning and stem cells and such but thats best left for another forum...

My point is that the game industry is dealing better with piracy than their RIAA counterparts, in that they've learned that nothing is going to stop piracy, the best you can do is just reduce it through encryption or special editions or addons. Suing everyone in sight isn't going to serve any purpose but to anger the very people you're trying to get buy your product. But then again, thats the country we live in these days, for better or worse...
 
Ive played roms of GBA games, thus taking out rental stores (of which i worked at one before), to figure out wether i would like the game or not. Ive downloaded a few snes games, like Chrono Trigger and Earthbound to find out if they are worth the 30-50 investment for a used copy (please, dont mention the ps1 version...I dont care). I have the nes games Bubble Bobble 2, excitebike, star tropics 1 & 2 and...something else, on my PPC emulated perfectly.

I also OWN way too many games. 99% of my DC games are real version, and only Ikaruga and Evil Twin are backups (i have ikaruga on my GC now though). I have a ton of Xbox, GC and older system games that i try and keep all the box and info with. Im a collector. I want those boxes and manuals. i want the import of Shenmue 2 that didnt come over here on DC.

I know its not legally right...but honestly i dont care. I play games i like, and some i do so through malicious ways, but most often they end up being bought or deleted.as for music, i do buy cd's, and i barely d/l songs unless they are Live, euro only, or only online (Smashing Pumpkins 5 cd farewell set).

Oh and i d/l anime from Japan. Like One piece and witch hunter robin (before it was over here). BUT i then buy the dvd's. I have the WHR box set (with shot glass and cd) and the 2nd volume.

I could be a cheat who ONLY d/l's things, but i only do that for certain items at certain times.

Is it legally wrong? Yes.
Does that bother me? no.
 
suprsaiyanMAX,

You and I basically agree, but I believe you are taking the word media to mean the physical media the music is placed on, while I am referring the various forms of entertainment. People are spending their money on other types of media (movies, video games, etc.), not cds. DVDs gave consumers a much better product than VHS tapes, on a much better physical medium. People are buying movies, although they have always had the opportunity with VHS and laserdisc, at a greater rate than ever before. Video games are also being purchased at an astronomical rate, unlike in the past. The youth of today are not as interested in purchasing albums, cassettes, cds, as they have been in the past. There are other forms of entertainment that have captured their interest. I'm not talking about cds killing lp's or cassettes. I'm suggesting that the fight for the consumer dollar is being lost by the music industry to other markets. Other forms of entertainment are gaining a larger and larger share of the pie. Your radio vs. television arguement illustrates my point to a reasonable extent.

As far as advancing the technology beyond cds, there are new forms of physical media (super audio cd, released by sony or audio dvd, released by pioneer). The question is, how quickly will people adopt this new technology? Will consumers be willing to spend money on this or will this gradually fade out? eldad9 made an excellent point, how many times will people be willing to repurchase their collection? As far as advancing technology or the way the music industry handles the internet (mp3's, wav's, etc.), well they have been changing a glacial pace, and music companies will continue to suffer until they come up with a successful plan.
 
[quote name='magilacudy']I'm sure someones mentioned this but this isn't the first time a recording industry has reacted towards technology *cough* VCRs and video tapes, audio cassettes cough* Cd-Rs even the TV when it first came out (because it threatened to steal the movie going audience).
[/quote]

That's a bit of an understatement.

The VCR is to the American film producer and the American public as the Boston Strangler is to the woman home alone.
Click to expand...
-- Jack Valenti, MPAA, testifying before congress in 1982.
 
I don't pirate games because I can get them for cheap, I mean a game that used to cost 50 bucks costs 15 bucks at BB. That game will keep me happy for many hours, but if I want to buy a 5 year old Offspring cd I'm still not going to pay at least 13 bucks for it. Why no huge ass price drop for old cds ? That's one reason I don't feel bad about stealing music, plus stealing games is harder (kinda) because you have the threat of viruses. As far as I know it's impossible to get a virus from a mp3.

If the RIAA want to stop/slow down people getting music I have the perfect soulution for them. SACD, start selling ALL MUSIC on SACD for 15 bucks. SACD is way better then regular cds and even more so then mp3. But the RIAA is so slow to move that I'm sure we are going to wait at least 10 years before SACD becomes the norm.
 
Thought Id add my 2cents

I "pirate" the crap out of entertainment media. I even developed some playstation modchips back in the day and sold them on my own website (somewhat regretibly).

Personally, I buy anything I like and delete anything i dont. Piracy for me is a way of discovering products that I would not otherwise even consider. I would never have purchased halflife for full retail a week after it came out if i had not pirated it first and discovered how cool it was. The same goes for many albums I have purchased. This is especially because I can tell the difference between a CD quality and MP3.

The bottom line is that if the music industry really feels that people downloading music they have not first paid for is hurting them, they should rethink their marketing strategy instead of just trying to scare people by sueing a few poor chumps. Lets be honest. The downloading isnt going to stop. Its just not. But I would be more inclined to buy an album if I hear it first so if they give me a way to do that legally, I swear I'll never download a song again. And the radio just isnt playing what I like and 30 second clips lick my balls.

Also, nobody complained about recording tv shows onto your vcr or tivo. Why isnt that illegal? Or recording a movie shown on tv? Or back when cassettes were popular, I never heard the word piracy when people were making copies. Its so lame to sue some kids cuz they are too poor to buy music.

As for games, demos can do the trick. If the demo isnt enough for you or you can move into a friends house just cuz they have a game you like so much you cant live without it, THE BUY IT. If it sucks, dont bother with it until its cheap. Theres always a way to get a game legally for cheap. Sometimes it just takes a few months or years to come down in price (stupid nintendo).

Sadly, too many games would never have been discovered if there was no piracy. Adobe Photoshop would not sell nearly as many copies if art students had not pirated it so they could learn it, in turn suggesting to the companies they end up working for that it is the tool to buy. Think about that. More than half the DVD movies I own are ones I downloaded and like so much i bought them but would have never known of them if it werent for piracy. More people would use linux if it werent for piracy. Many band would never have become so popular. Nobody would know how to use microsoft office so they would never want to use it so it wouldnt sell.

Ill probably get flamed like crazy for this by people who buy everything, but I have $0 in the bank and im unemployed, and yet I have made thousands of dollars for companies like microsoft and adobe by sharing software with people who would not otherwise know of it and therefore never use it or later buy it.

If there was no "piracy" or "theft" as they call it, then there would be less education and discovery and therefore less sales. Its simply economics.

Let the flames begin.

EDIT: I should also note that I am such a cheap ass, as so many of you are on this board, that even if i did pirate a cd or game, chances are that I wouldnt even buy it for half price or even consider buying it ever. That new outkast cd was IMO horrible. 2 good songs that have been overplayed. So if i had just gone out and bought that cd instead of checking a "pirated" copy out first, I would have been robbed of like $30 or whatever a double disc costs. Screw that. Still, If i never heard the album, I wouldnt have bought it anyway, cuz im such a cheap ass. MY POINT: If there is money to be made that isnt being made, it isnt with cheap ass downloaders who are the majority of the people downloading stuff anyway. I mean, how many of the mp3s on your hard drive do you actually listen to? Of the 4000+ i have, I listen to about 50 on a regular basis. Oh man. Looks like someone lost some serious dough on me huh (sarcastially). Time to clean my hard drive. Only 50 mp3s I listen to are paid for...
 
I'm sorry guys, but I'm too busy downloading some Mp3's off the net and playing a shitty game called Altered beast on my Genesis emulator to write as long a message. (Do you people have a life... your messages are like, half a page long or more.... get a hobby).

So, on topic here... I will also ass my two cents just for those that care. My current position is sweet because I live in Canada... and in the beautiful country of Canada "Downloading" Stuff like mp3's IS NOT ILLEGAL! But... sharing is. So whatever I download off of the net or on Kazaa, I just put it away somewhere else other than My Shared Folder. For my point of view though... I say IT IS TRULY WRONG TO DOWNLOAD NEW... HEAR ME NOW... NEW!!!!! MOVIES AND GAMES. I HATE THAT!

People put time and effort into making quality entertainment for people, and then the stupid assholes and EXTREME cheapass's out there download it with a couple of clicks sometimes even before the product is on the big screen or in the Walmart.

As far as songs, if you just like a song or want to hear a song, thats fine to me... If the game is more than 5 years old, noone's really gonna make anymore money from it, that's fine too. BUT DON'T DOWNLOAD FULL CD'S AND SUCH, THAT'S NAUGHTY KIDS, JUST PURELY WRONG. The music industry is hard enough already (well, I know it is damn hard for canadians), dont make it worse.

So, that's it... and even though I just made fun of people for having no life and posting large ass opinions... It seems I have just joined them, But don't get me wrong, I have plenty hobbies... :)
 
I for one wish that downloading music and games will stop. My local record store which is down the street from me is closing due to lack of business. The reason is that most people download music for free. I would always buy CDs from there because they sold used ones, the had a great selection of imports and OOP CDs, and they had the best prices. I refuse to buy CDs elsewhere. They have one location which is about an hour away. Now I have to travel one hour just to buy a CD becuase people have to download music for free. Music stores will continue to close until there is a stop to downloading music. PEOPLE ARE LOSING JOBS!!!!!! Pretty soon, it will be impossible to buy a CD due to the fact that stores will no longer carry them since there is not as much of a demand for them since people download them for free. This will eventually lead to artists losing even more money than they already are. I think that artists will refuse to make new records due to the fact that they aren't getting any money from this.

I feel the same way about downloading games. Pretty soon, the same will probably happen to games as what has happened to music.
 
THPS
wrote
This will eventually lead to artists losing even more money than they already are.

artiists are loosing any money with downloading, most(not all) are paid a flat rate for a cd production which doesnt even cost $100K to make and the record compay wants to make millions off of it. most of the artists have allways made their money from concerts. places like walmart and best buy will always sell cds and record sales are actualy at an all time high, its just that the numbers arent increasing as fast as they used to. i personally have no problem with music, i dont see how it is fair to the consumer to expect to make over a million dollars from a less than 100k investment. (cds cost something like 25 cents to burn and ship to stores)(if 50k people buy a cd they have made their money back)


video games on the other hand cost quite a bit to produce and the return isnt on the same scale the musics is so when you pirate in print video games it really does hurt as the company may acutally loose money and then not make games. this is the bigest reason i see for not pirating games.
 
i dont feel guilty about it because those are some rich bastards that make all the money anyways. do they really need more money?
 
Artists also make money off concerts, merchandising, live appearances, etc. What about the struggling musicians?! Well if they're going to make it to stardom, they're going to make it. If not, they they nothing. Piracy just makes the process go faster as people get tired of their music more efficiently =P
 
Some people way over do the music piracy thing. I've had people brag to me online about their collection of 2500+ mp3s and whatnot.. while I download maybe one or two songs a month. My primary music source are broadcast stations blaring from the speakers in my car.. that's what music stations like that are there for.
 
I download quite a bit of music, but I try not to let that affect the amount of music I buy. Having spent $300+ on cds and $100+ on concerts in the past 2 years, I believe that I can safely say that I'm supporting the music industry.

I won't even mention how much money I spent on video games in the past 2 years...
 
video games on the other hand cost quite a bit to produce and the return isnt on the same scale the musics is so when you pirate in print video games it really does hurt as the company may acutally loose money and then not make games. this is the bigest reason i see for not pirating games.
Click to expand...

Actually, the two industries are almost identical in scope, dollars, profits, and structure. The record industry quotes sales $$ in the area of 15+ billion compared to 10+ billion in the videogame market. Obviously the record industry has more units shipped, but that's because a unit only cost 12-20$ when released compared to $40-50 for a game.

Large blockbuster releases make up for the loosers, and there are many more losers than winners in both industries. Teams of engineers, producers, artists, and marketers are involved for both camps, and get paid whether or not a game or music CD makes money. Piracy takes money away from these people if the industries decide to cutback on their output. So, it may not be the artists that get screwed, but the little guy may be getting a pink slip tomorrow because little johnny downloader thinks it's cool to get something for free.

Something people rarely think about are the middle men who are getting cut out of the deals from downloading whether legal or pirated. Your local retailer loses out on dollars, cutting their bottom line and contributing to worker layoffs.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Something people rarely think about are the middle men who are getting cut out of the deals from downloading whether legal or pirated. Your local retailer loses out on dollars, cutting their bottom line and contributing to worker layoffs.[/quote]

It's not our job to think of them. When cars were first made available, consumers who could afford them didn't think about the poor whip and buggy manufacturers who would soon lose their business if they couldn't adapt.

No company has a god-given right to keep making money, like the RIAA seems to claim it has.
 
Actually, every company has a 'god' given right to make money. It's the nature of capitalism and freedom. Fortunately, we also have the god-given right to choose which companies to give our money to. I choose to listen to the radio and not give money to the recording industy except for the rare gem that comes along 2-3 times a year, kinda like a Nintendo 1st party release.


I was just illustrating a point of the fundamental change in the market and delivery of product, not that it's anyone's responsibility to keep certain industries and middlemen afloat.
 
How is someone playing Altered beast on your snes emulator? Ive been into the emulation scene for about 9 years, and used to write a section of www.retrogames.com Anyways one thing i do with roms that I feel is beneficial, is what someone wrote here earlier, I download GBA roms before I buy them. I have not played one for more than probably 10 minutes. It helped me to decide to purchase several games, and not purchase taiketsu.

I also legally own about a dozen or so arcade roms, and arcade boards. For me it is easier to run a emulation cabinet, then to toss all those jamma boards in the box. But then again this part isnt pirating.

Obvioulsy downloading x copyrighted material song or game is both illegal.

I agree that Cutting out the Middleman in some forms is an evolution of business,

I just bought a pool table from the company who makes them rather than going to the dealer my family paid 1400 shipped for the same table the dealer wanted to sell for 4000.
 
i remember when i was much younger, while in japan i would visit my local video game mom'n'pop store to play the latest arcades and play demos of the newest games. piracy wasn't an issue due to lack of equipment for the common man/woman. roms and rips were not distrubuted "whoreish-ly" over any medium. as piracy began to become popular, i remember the owners of the mom'n'pop stores started selling boots of NES (famicon)games on floppys which is playable with a 3rd party device. the only control over this was representives of Nintendo would browse stores and enforce the law. even knowing this is illegal i loved going to that store, we knew everyone that went there by name and it was more of an community than just a store. everyone supported them and bought from them. even if they didn't sell boots we would of still bought from them, but they felt like they had to because business was slowing due to corporate takeovers. many stores were bought and shut-down or forced to become a link in the chain.

The same thing is happening in the US, its almost unlikely for a small business to surive, the rate is most small businesses fail within the first 2 years. I believe this is a big factor to piracy, games, cds alike. who do we have more of an connection with? the little guys or mr. corporate? now people feel no connection with the retailers, and in fact its just a place to exchange money for overpriced goods. now with the technology right at our finger tips, why walk in to a store, spend money, and feel disapointed in the end?

Now, i do not support piracy and have not dl'ed any copyrighted material off the internet for almost 8 years, once i realized what i was doing i immediantly stopped. i believe ripping games is very wrong, at the same time i think buying games cause of mass advertising or hype is also wrong. (matrix reloaded) we reap what we sow, now in any media industry if you dont have a multimillion dollar advertising budget, its hard to make good money. it used to be word to mouth, now the society is so disconnected we RELY on ads.

But i dont feel the same applies for music CDs. even though music sales are still considered low, i believe music download actually did the industry a favor. without it we wouldn't have this many artists poping up, and so many genres reinventing it's self. without the internet music dl scene, michelle brance, yellowcard, plus many others might never of been signed. its a great medium to make a name for a musician. music is more of an art form so it is less objective, people listen the music for the experience, somewhat in a spritual sense. even if you rip their songs you cannot duplicate the experience you get when you go to their concert. piracy is still a act of crime, but the RIAA is going at it all wrong. they should embrace it and use it to their advange, and not repress it, times are going to change no matter what, but those old geezers cannot adjust and see the future. musicans who work hard make more money still, not working hard to advertise then sit back and collect residuals off cds, if they concentrate revenue on live performances, cameo appearences they would be better off.

hats off to the little peoples, thumbs down to over paid CEOs.
 
[quote name='bmulligan']Actually, every company has a 'god' given right to make money. [/quote]

They have a right to TRY, not to succeed. Big difference there.
 
The 'try' is implied and reiterated in the next statement that we have a choice of which companies get our money.

You know the RIAA made the same stink when casssette tapes came into the marketplace. They said it was going to ruin the industry. They claimed lower sales figures just like they are doing now, neglecting the fact that in both cases, the economy was in a declining period.

The motion picture industry also made a big stink about videotape. Observe how both industries are now making more money and producing more product than ever before. If anything, these mediums helped in the sale and distribution of their products.

Look at how many people on these boards need to have the 'non-GH' copy of a game, or have many more games than they'll ever play, or have unwrapped games still sitting on the shelves. People like to collect things in our culture and there seems to be enough people in the markets already who must have 'offical', complete copies of original releases.
 
Sorry, my bad, the altered beast game is on the genesis (also another game for the GBA). Thanks Theenternal.
 
It takes hours to record a $15 CD.

It takes months to write and build a $50 game.

Big difference.
But don't pirate either, bitches.
 
[quote name='Quackzilla']It takes hours to record a $15 CD.

It takes months to write and build a $50 game.

[/quote]

You really put the quack in quackzilla by showing you have no concept of the music business. It can takes weeks to record a CD's worth of songs. It can take months to write the songs in the first place. Have you ever written a song ? Arranged it ? Wrote the score for every instrument and vocal ? Practiced it over and over again with 10, maybe 20 different musicians to get it right? Then there's the editing, mixing, and dubbing and all other aspects of post recording production.

Yes, some mucicians can record an entire CD in a few hours, but then again some game producer can make a crappy game in a few days too.
 
I don't think the time it takes to compose a game or music CD is really relevant though.

This may have been said before, but there are many people involved in the creative process for both mediums. Since a game requires music (which needs to be composed and produced like a a music CD), sound, graphics, marketing, etc. the budget and payroll is usually astronomical due to so many people involved. Since when have you heard of a music CD's budget being over a ceratin amount.

Yes, composing music takes time and effort. Nowadays though it really doesn't take that much effort, as most of the music is digitally crafted. Of course, this requires the composer, sound engineers, studio maintenance, and the like. Those are a lot of people involved, however not as much as usually takes to produce a game.

In most cases, they will get paid beforehand, regardless of how the product does. I don't understand how people say piracy takes the money out of their pockets, because technically it already is in their hands. The money is there, what the RIAA is saying is lost is future revenue. There are analysts who predict this or that, but seriously, you could randomly blame anything on taking any amount of money out of your hands.

Correlation does not mean causation - the first rule that is learned in Economics. Just because there is a decline in music sales around the same time as MP3 use doesn't mean there is a connection there.
 
the studio gets paid for the time, and the musicians and production staff get paid, but the artists usually have a cut of the sales as their only compensation unless they have some superstar status and get paid up fornt by the record company. Ususlly, all the production costs are paid out of the feature artists share too.
 
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