draft survey

[quote name='zionoverfire'][quote name='epobirs'][quote name='zionoverfire'][quote name='epobirs'][quote name='zionoverfire'][quote name='epobirs']Where is the entry for "There isn't going to be a draft, you scare-mongering idiots!"[/quote]

Well good luck dealing with Iraq for the next 4 years without one.[/quote]

Bullshit. You're an ill-informed dolt if you believe that. The modern military is not in the cannon fodder business anymore. None of our advantages can be applied with a conscripted force. I know a fair number of serving military personnel, including several whose careers extend back to when there was last a draft in effect, and not a one has any interest in dealing with conscripts.

Despite all the whining from certain sectors the issues in Iraq are not about numbers but rather the willingness to apply force as needed. No additional feet on the ground make the slightest difference if they aren't put to use. Pacification comes from the demonstrated capability to enforce one's will, not from shipping in a crowd to do nothing. This is the lesson of Fallujah.[/quote]

:roll:[/quote]

Roll your eyes all you like, child, but keep in mind I'm old enough to remember when there really was a draft that I expected to still be in place when I came of age and what the average soldier was like back then. Things are hugely different today. The Army was once the job of last resort for high school drop outs. Nowadays they turn people away who don't make the grade on academic ability as an indication of trainability. This isn't like WWII when my father did six weeks at Ft. Dix and was on his way to Austria days later. Conscription simply isn't a practical staffing method for a modern military where each soldier receives a level of technical training that would have been solely for high-level specialists in the Vietnam era.[/quote]

See you just keep writing paragraphs of shit and expecting me to read it.[/quote]

:rofl:
 
http://www.politicsnh.com/archives/pindell/2003/may/5_20.shtml

He's not making this shit up, people...

CONCORD, May 20 – Speaking to veterans and to students at his former high school, Sen. John Kerry proposed a $3.5 billion national effort to involve more Americans in public service building on the framework of other programs and mandating that all high schools incorporate service requirements for graduation ... A year ago, Sen. John Edwards also proposed the idea of requiring high schools to have service graduation requirements in return of $65 million from the government...
 
H.R. 163 - Mandatory National Service Bill

Universal National Service Act of 2003 (Introduced in House)


HR 163 IH

108th CONGRESS

1st Session

H. R. 163

To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes.

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

January 7, 2003

Mr. RANGEL (for himself, Mr. MCDERMOTT, Mr. CONYERS, Mr. LEWIS of Georgia, Mr. STARK, and Mr. ABERCROMBIE) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on Armed Services

A BILL

To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE; TABLE OF CONTENTS.

(a) SHORT TITLE- This Act may be cited as the `Universal National Service Act of 2003'.

(b) TABLE OF CONTENTS- The table of contents for this Act is as follows:

Sec. 1. Short title; table of contents.

Sec. 2. National service obligation.

Sec. 3. Two-year period of national service.

Sec. 4. Implementation by the President.

Sec. 5. Induction.

Sec. 6. Deferments and postponements.

Sec. 7. Induction exemptions.

Sec. 8. Conscientious objection.

Sec. 9. Discharge following national service.

Sec. 10. Registration of females under the Military Selective Service Act.

Sec. 11. Relation of Act to registration and induction authority of Military Selective Service Act.

Sec. 12. Definitions.

SEC. 2. NATIONAL SERVICE OBLIGATION.

(a) OBLIGATION FOR YOUNG PERSONS- It is the obligation of every citizen of the United States, and every other person residing in the United States, who is between the ages of 18 and 26 to perform a period of national service as prescribed in this Act unless exempted under the provisions of this Act.

(b) FORM OF NATIONAL SERVICE- National service under this Act shall be performed either--

(1) as a member of an active or reverse component of the uniformed services; or

(2) in a civilian capacity that, as determined by the President, promotes the national defense, including national or community service and homeland security.

(c) INDUCTION REQUIREMENTS- The President shall provide for the induction of persons covered by subsection (a) to perform national service under this Act.

(d) SELECTION FOR MILITARY SERVICE- Based upon the needs of the uniformed services, the President shall--

(1) determine the number of persons covered by subsection (a) whose service is to be performed as a member of an active or reverse component of the uniformed services; and

(2) select the individuals among those persons who are to be inducted for military service under this Act.

(e) CIVILIAN SERVICE- Persons covered by subsection (a) who are not selected for military service under subsection (d) shall perform their national service obligation under this Act in a civilian capacity pursuant to subsection (b)(2).

SEC. 3. TWO-YEAR PERIOD OF NATIONAL SERVICE.

(a) GENERAL RULE- Except as otherwise provided in this section, the period of national service performed by a person under this Act shall be two years.

(b) GROUNDS FOR EXTENSION- At the discretion of the President, the period of military service for a member of the uniformed services under this Act may be extended--

(1) with the consent of the member, for the purpose of furnishing hospitalization, medical, or surgical care for injury or illness incurred in line of duty; or

(2) for the purpose of requiring the member to compensate for any time lost to training for any cause.

(c) EARLY TERMINATION- The period of national service for a person under this Act shall be terminated before the end of such period under the following circumstances:

(1) The voluntary enlistment and active service of the person in an active or reverse component of the uniformed services for a period of at least two years, in which case the period of basic military training and education actually served by the person shall be counted toward the term of enlistment.

(2) The admission and service of the person as a cadet or midshipman at the United States Military Academy, the United States Naval Academy, the United States Air Force Academy, the Coast Guard Academy, or the United States Merchant Marine Academy.

(3) The enrollment and service of the person in an officer candidate program, if the person has signed an agreement to accept a Reserve commission in the appropriate service with an obligation to serve

on active duty if such a commission is offered upon completion of the program.

(4) Such other grounds as the President may establish.

SEC. 4. IMPLEMENTATION BY THE PRESIDENT.

(a) IN GENERAL- The President shall prescribe such regulations as are necessary to carry out this Act.

(b) MATTER TO BE COVERED BY REGULATIONS- Such regulations shall include specification of the following:

(1) The types of civilian service that may be performed for a person's national service obligation under this Act.

(2) Standards for satisfactory performance of civilian service and of penalties for failure to perform civilian service satisfactorily.

(3) The manner in which persons shall be selected for induction under this Act, including the manner in which those selected will be notified of such selection.

(4) All other administrative matters in connection with the induction of persons under this Act and the registration, examination, and classification of such persons.

(5) A means to determine questions or claims with respect to inclusion for, or exemption or deferment from induction under this Act, including questions of conscientious objection.

(6) Standards for compensation and benefits for persons performing their national service obligation under this Act through civilian service.

(7) Such other matters as the President determines necessary to carry out this Act.

(c) USE OF PRIOR ACT- To the extent determined appropriate by the President, the President may use for purposes of this Act the procedures provided in the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. App. 451 et seq.), including procedures for registration, selection, and induction.

SEC. 5. INDUCTION.

(a) IN GENERAL- Every person subject to induction for national service under this Act, except those whose training is deferred or postponed in accordance with this Act, shall be called and inducted by the President for such service at the time and place specified by the President.

(b) AGE LIMITS- A person may be inducted under this Act only if the person has attained the age of 18 and has not attained the age of 26.

(c) VOLUNTARY INDUCTION- A person subject to induction under this Act may volunteer for induction at a time other than the time at which the person is otherwise called for induction.

(d) EXAMINATION; CLASSIFICATION- Every person subject to induction under this Act shall, before induction, be physically and mentally examined and shall be classified as to fitness to perform national service. The President may apply different classification standards for fitness for military service and fitness for civilian service.
SEC. 6. DEFERMENTS AND POSTPONEMENTS.

(a) HIGH SCHOOL STUDENTS- A person who is pursuing a standard course of study, on a full-time basis, in a secondary school or similar institution of learning shall be entitled to have induction under this Act postponed until the person--

(1) obtains a high school diploma;

(2) ceases to pursue satisfactorily such course of study; or

(3) attains the age of 20.

(b) HARDSHIP AND DISABILITY- Deferments from national service under this Act may be made for--

(1) extreme hardship; or

(2) physical or mental disability.

(c) TRAINING CAPACITY- The President may postpone or suspend the induction of persons for military service under this Act as necessary to limit the number of persons receiving basic military training and education to the maximum number that can be adequately trained.

(d) TERMINATION- No deferment or postponement of induction under this Act shall continue after the cause of such deferment or postponement ceases.

SEC. 7. INDUCTION EXEMPTIONS.

(a) QUALIFICATIONS- No person may be inducted for military service under this Act unless the person is acceptable to the Secretary concerned for training and meets the same health and physical qualifications applicable under section 505 of title 10, United States Code, to persons seeking original enlistment in a regular component of the Armed Forces.

(b) OTHER MILITARY SERVICE- No person shall be liable for induction under this Act who--

(1) is serving, or has served honorably for at least six months, in any component of the uniformed services on active duty; or

(2) is or becomes a cadet or midshipman at the United States Military Academy, the United States Naval Academy, the United States Air Force Academy, the Coast Guard Academy, the United States

Merchant Marine Academy, a midshipman of a Navy accredited State maritime academy, a member of the Senior Reserve Officers' Training Corps, or the naval aviation college program, so long as that person satisfactorily continues in and completes two years training therein.
SEC. 8. CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTION.

(a) CLAIMS AS CONSCIENTIOUS OBJECTOR- Any person selected under this Act for induction into the uniformed services who claims, because of religious training and belief (as defined in section 6(j) of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. 456(j))), exemption from combatant training included as part of that military service and whose claim is sustained under such procedures as the President may prescribe, shall, when inducted, participate in military service that does not include any combatant training component.

(b) TRANSFER TO CIVILIAN SERVICE- Any such person whose claim is sustained may, at the discretion of the President, be transferred to a national service program for performance of such person's national service obligation under this Act.

SEC. 9. DISCHARGE FOLLOWING NATIONAL SERVICE.

(a) DISCHARGE- Upon completion or termination of the obligation to perform national service under this Act, a person shall be discharged from the uniformed services or from civilian service, as the case may be, and shall not be subject to any further service under this Act.

(b) COORDINATION WITH OTHER AUTHORITIES- Nothing in this section shall limit or prohibit the call to active service in the uniformed services of any person who is a member of a regular or reserve component of the uniformed services.

SEC. 10. REGISTRATION OF FEMALES UNDER THE MILITARY SELECTIVE SERVICE ACT.

(a) REGISTRATION REQUIRED- Section 3(a) of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. 453(a)) is amended--

(1) by striking `male' both places it appears;

(2) by inserting `or herself' after `himself'; and

(3) by striking `he' and inserting `the person'.

(b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT- Section 16(a) of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. App. 466(a)) is amended by striking `men' and inserting `persons'.

SEC. 11. RELATION OF ACT TO REGISTRATION AND INDUCTION AUTHORITY OF MILITARY SELECTIVE SERVICE ACT.

(a) REGISTRATION- Section 4 of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. App. 454) is amended by inserting after subsection (g) the following new subsection:

`(h) This section does not apply with respect to the induction of persons into the Armed Forces pursuant to the Universal National Service Act of 2003.'.

(b) INDUCTION- Section 17(c) of the Military Selective Service Act (50 U.S.C. App. 467(c)) is amended by striking `now or hereafter' and all that follows through the period at the end and inserting `inducted pursuant to the Universal National Service Act of 2003.'.

SEC. 12. DEFINITIONS.

In this Act:

(1) The term `military service' means service performed as a member of an active or reverse component of the uniformed services.

(2) The term `Secretary concerned' means the Secretary of Defense with respect to the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine Corps, the Secretary of Homeland Security with respect to the Coast Guard, the Secretary of Commerce, with respect to matters concerning the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and the Secretary of Health and Human Services, with respect to matters concerning the Public Health Service.

(3) The term `United States', when used in a geographical sense, means the several States, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and Guam.

(4) The term `uniformed services' means the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard, commissioned corps of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and commissioned corps of the Public Health Service.

Posted: Thu - September 30, 2004 at 11:58 AM
 
[quote name='bmulligan']http://www.politicsnh.com/archives/pindell/2003/may/5_20.shtml

He's not making this shit up, people...

CONCORD, May 20 – Speaking to veterans and to students at his former high school, Sen. John Kerry proposed a $3.5 billion national effort to involve more Americans in public service building on the framework of other programs and mandating that all high schools incorporate service requirements for graduation ... A year ago, Sen. John Edwards also proposed the idea of requiring high schools to have service graduation requirements in return of $65 million from the government...
[/quote]

I duno what your going on about, but that article doesn't really speak of military service at all. Public service and military service are not even close to interchangable terms.
 
[quote name='Scorch']Yes. Ladies, you wanted equal rights.. now you're gonna get it.[/quote]

[quote name='CaseyRyback']they have bitched for years about equal treatment, and I think if they want equal pay, equal rights, then they should have equal responsibility.[/quote]

wow its kinda disturbing how alot of you guys seem to be voting women should be elegable for the draft as some sort of 'revenge' for the womans right movment

i voted yes for 2 reasons. i was raised and still believe all people are equals. im not for putting women in the front line of gun fire, and i am not for putting men there either!

2nd reason is that if the draft DIRECTLY effected members of both sexes, rather than just men, people would pay alot more attention to who they elect and what they vote on.
 
[quote name='Duo_Maxwell'][quote name='bmulligan']http://www.politicsnh.com/archives/pindell/2003/may/5_20.shtml

He's not making this shit up, people...

CONCORD, May 20 – Speaking to veterans and to students at his former high school, Sen. John Kerry proposed a $3.5 billion national effort to involve more Americans in public service building on the framework of other programs and mandating that all high schools incorporate service requirements for graduation ... A year ago, Sen. John Edwards also proposed the idea of requiring high schools to have service graduation requirements in return of $65 million from the government...
[/quote]

I duno what your going on about, but that article doesn't really speak of military service at all. Public service and military service are not even close to interchangable terms.[/quote]

They are EXACTLY the same when it becomes compulsory and beyond your own decision to participate. Slavery is slavery, whether you are forced into millitary service or ditch duty.
 
[quote name='dynamite99']
1. Should the draft apply to both men and women?
No
2. Should the draft be reinstated?
No
3. If the draft was present would you volunteer on your own?
No - They wouldnt draft me anyways. If I was drafted, I would offer to serve in any capacity I could.
4. Should all US residents be elligible - citizen and non-citizen?
No
5. If drafted for a war you didnt support, would you "y" fight or "n"
flee?
Yes
[/quote]
 
[quote name='bmulligan'][quote name='Duo_Maxwell'][quote name='bmulligan']http://www.politicsnh.com/archives/pindell/2003/may/5_20.shtml

He's not making this shit up, people...

CONCORD, May 20 – Speaking to veterans and to students at his former high school, Sen. John Kerry proposed a $3.5 billion national effort to involve more Americans in public service building on the framework of other programs and mandating that all high schools incorporate service requirements for graduation ... A year ago, Sen. John Edwards also proposed the idea of requiring high schools to have service graduation requirements in return of $65 million from the government...
[/quote]

I duno what your going on about, but that article doesn't really speak of military service at all. Public service and military service are not even close to interchangable terms.[/quote]

They are EXACTLY the same when it becomes compulsory and beyond your own decision to participate. Slavery is slavery, whether you are forced into millitary service or ditch duty.[/quote]

Being shot at is not the same as digging ditches. And they do pay you, quite well IMO ...
 
[quote name='punqsux'][quote name='Scorch']Yes. Ladies, you wanted equal rights.. now you're gonna get it.[/quote]

[quote name='CaseyRyback']they have bitched for years about equal treatment, and I think if they want equal pay, equal rights, then they should have equal responsibility.[/quote]

wow its kinda disturbing how alot of you guys seem to be voting women should be elegable for the draft as some sort of 'revenge' for the womans right movment

i voted yes for 2 reasons. i was raised and still believe all people are equals. im not for putting women in the front line of gun fire, and i am not for putting men there either!

2nd reason is that if the draft DIRECTLY effected members of both sexes, rather than just men, people would pay alot more attention to who they elect and what they vote on.[/quote]

Revenge? Revenge for what? They want equal rights, this is equal rights. They're equal. They can fire a gun just as equal as men. Pregnant women obviously shouldn't be eligible as that'd just be.. wrong. New mothers (within a year) shouldn't be eligible, either. But everyone else.
 
[quote name='sblymnlcrymnl'][quote name='bmulligan'][quote name='Duo_Maxwell'][quote name='bmulligan']http://www.politicsnh.com/archives/pindell/2003/may/5_20.shtml

He's not making this shit up, people...

CONCORD, May 20 – Speaking to veterans and to students at his former high school, Sen. John Kerry proposed a $3.5 billion national effort to involve more Americans in public service building on the framework of other programs and mandating that all high schools incorporate service requirements for graduation ... A year ago, Sen. John Edwards also proposed the idea of requiring high schools to have service graduation requirements in return of $65 million from the government...
[/quote]



I duno what your going on about, but that article doesn't really speak of military service at all. Public service and military service are not even close to interchangable terms.[/quote]

They are EXACTLY the same when it becomes compulsory and beyond your own decision to participate. Slavery is slavery, whether you are forced into millitary service or ditch duty.[/quote]

Being shot at is not the same as digging ditches. And they do pay you, quite well IMO ...[/quote]

No, it's not the same as being shot at, but it doesn't matter if you're being compensated or not. How can you put a price on your freedom? That's the same as putting a price on your LIFE! When it's taken away from you it really doesn't matter how much you;ve been paid, does it?
 
[quote name='punqsux'][quote name='Scorch']Yes. Ladies, you wanted equal rights.. now you're gonna get it.[/quote]

[quote name='CaseyRyback']they have bitched for years about equal treatment, and I think if they want equal pay, equal rights, then they should have equal responsibility.[/quote]

wow its kinda disturbing how alot of you guys seem to be voting women should be elegable for the draft as some sort of 'revenge' for the womans right movment

i voted yes for 2 reasons. i was raised and still believe all people are equals. im not for putting women in the front line of gun fire, and i am not for putting men there either!

2nd reason is that if the draft DIRECTLY effected members of both sexes, rather than just men, people would pay alot more attention to who they elect and what they vote on.[/quote]

Women can't just choose what they'd like to be equal on. They want equal rights, well this is part of being equal.
 
[quote name='nickmad']draft eh?
HELLLLOOOOO CANADA

el drafto?
HOLLLLLAAAAA MEXICO[/quote]

:rofl:
I wonder what it'd be like if military service was mandatory for all males, like in other countries...? I'm kinda looking forward to mine, just to see what it's like...
 
[quote name='nickmad']draft eh?
HELLLLOOOOO CANADA

el drafto?
HOLLLLLAAAAA MEXICO[/quote]

:rofl: My thoughts exactly.
 
[quote name='crazytalkx'][quote name='nickmad']draft eh?
HELLLLOOOOO CANADA

el drafto?
HOLLLLLAAAAA MEXICO[/quote]

:rofl: My thoughts exactly.[/quote]

Same here. Killing or being killed in a war that I didnt start or agree with is against my beliefs
 
Um, you can't just run to canada any more, you'll just be deported back... they've changed that since viet nam. Sorry dudes.
 
1. Yes
2. No
3. No
4. Yes
5. No

I would not fight for any "free" country who forces its citizens to fight. THe draft would not work in present times either I assume clinical depression keeps you out of the military and anyone who wants to can be clinically depressed in our society.
 
[quote name='dynamite99']Im suppose to do this survey for a class, and need around 20 people. so i thought this would be the best way to do it :)
[/quote]

You should really just go interview 20 people IRL. Wouldn't take that long.

1. No. I don't think many politicians would ever vote to change this (at least no time soon) as news coverage of hundreds or thousands of body bags with women inside would not sit well with the American public.

2. No

3. No, I would frankly do anything I could (legally) to get out of serving in a battle zone.

4. No

5. Yes, I would still fulfill my duty.
 
[quote name='nickmad']draft eh?
HELLLLOOOOO CANADA

el drafto?
HOLLLLLAAAAA MEXICO[/quote]

I'd fight, but if I were going to run I'd go to Mexico. My grandfather has a nice house down in Chapala, and I would love to have an excuse to live there.
 
There won't be, and shouldn't be, but if there were:
1. Yes, equality is equality.
2. No
3. maybe
4. Yes
5. Yes fight. It's my job. I do lots of things in every job I don't 'support'. Obviously I would resist any My Lai things.

And there are plenty of non-combat jobs that can support the troops that people of all ages, genders, physiques could do.
 
1. Should the draft apply to both men and women? Yes
2. Should the draft be reinstated? No
3. If the draft was present would you volunteer on your own? No
4. Should all US residents be elligible - citizen and non-citizen? Yes
5. If drafted for a war you didnt support, would you "y" fight or "n" flee? Neither - I would go to jail in protest.
 
1. Should the draft apply to both men and women?
I can't decide... I'd say yes, but I never want to see my girlfriend in the military.

2. Should the draft be reinstated?
No... if it is, there will probably be rioting.

3. If the draft was present would you volunteer on your own?
No.

4. Should all US residents be elligible - citizen and non-citizen?
Yes.

5. If drafted for a war you didnt support, would you "y" fight or "n" flee?
Flee, I'm a coward and I'll admit it.
 
Man, how come all the crazy ppl are sent into institutions? I think it'd be more effective to use the psychos and killers in a war since they'd be doing what they normally do and get paid for it. If they got killed, hey they're crazy, they would've been executed anyway. If they live, send'em back into the institutions :lol:
 
[quote name='Alpha2']Um, you can't just run to canada any more, you'll just be deported back... they've changed that since viet nam. Sorry dudes.[/quote]

Yes but you can still run to Mexico, Alaska, the Carribien, Europe, South America and now Russia :D
 
If I had the choice, I wouldn't reinstate the draft. But, if it was reinstated, I wouldn't really care 'cause it's a pretty good idea.
 
[quote name='jaykrue']Man, how come all the crazy ppl are sent into institutions? I think it'd be more effective to use the psychos and killers in a war since they'd be doing what they normally do and get paid for it. If they got killed, hey they're crazy, they would've been executed anyway. If they live, send'em back into the institutions :lol: [/quote]

amen to that my brother :lol:
 
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