Dragon Age II - Gen. Discussion and Info - Mark of the Assassin DLC 10/11 800 pts.

[quote name='MSUHitman']How do we tell if this is an issue, I didn't quite understand how to check from the quoted post. I've never used Sebastian outside of his quests but I use Isabella quite a bit (at full friendship in the middle of the romance) and I thought my attacks had slown down but I wasn't 100% sure.[/QUOTE]


Its difficult to tell since it happens slowly and seems to be caused by removing them from your team and Hawke losing the 10% speed bonus permanently. I didn't notice it until about the third act/chapter despite having Isabela and Sebastian at full friendship in the second. Makes the game particularly difficult (somewhat impossible) on the Harder difficulties.
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']
Who else did you bring with you? I brought Merrill (can't remember who else, possibly Anders and Varric) and she turned against me despite being near full friendship. I've been wondering which characters could turn against you and if there was any way to prevent it.
[/QUOTE]


Merrill and Anders. In the Fade certain characters will ALWAYS turn against you. You then go to them afterwards (Isabelle in the Hanging Man, Merrill in her house) and forgive them for big boosts. Isabele has the largest one for forgiving her though
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']Hmm, I hope I didn't mess something up. I thought I chose a flirt option during the initial meeting but I haven't had any chances since then and I've done several quests.[/QUOTE]

I chose the flirt option the first time I spoke with her and the second time during the first act I believe. Then early in the second act I had to go to my house at night and she was just standing there, waiting for me to talk to her.
 
[quote name='Hell Monkey']
Merrill and Anders. In the Fade certain characters will ALWAYS turn against you. You then go to them afterwards (Isabelle in the Hanging Man, Merrill in her house) and forgive them for big boosts. Isabele has the largest one for forgiving her though
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I forgave Merrill and got only back +15 friendship, after gaining +20 rivalry when I had to kill her. :lol:

[quote name='IRHari']bioware bro caught hiding behind anonymous username like a bitch and rating his game a 10/10.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, there's a whole thread about this in the General forum. I'm of the opinion that it's a pretty lame thing for a BioWare employee to do (anonymously at least), and it's a big black eye for BioWare/EA. A lot of people think it's no big deal though.
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']
Yeah, I forgave Merrill and got only back +15 friendship, after gaining +20 rivalry when I had to kill her. :lol:
[/QUOTE]


You don't get any negative for killing Isabelle there. That helps.
 
I think any potential rivalry gains from those bits come from the conversation choices you make, not from killing the teammate.
 
I went through without any DLC items. I hated them so much in Origins. I mean, okay, Cailan's armour and the Warden's Keep stuff? I can accept them. But getting all these random super awesome rings and daggers and bits of armour and shit that are way better than anything else you can get? That's just... kinda experience-killing for me.
 
So did I screw up getting Sebastian in my game? I finished the Duty quests and he said he was going to petition the vicecount about something and he's gone. He's not on my character select screen and I don't know how to find him again.

Is that what you guys mean about his quest being broken?
 
So any update about how to tell if my Hawke is messed up from the Isabella glitch? Sorry but I'm at the end of Act 2 and I don't want to continue if my game is completely bugged out. I do have a save right before the Deep Road expedition (when my only 100% friend was Bethany) and right before I started the Isabella romance in Act 2 so I wouldn't have to start from scratch, but I would have to replay about 15 hours or so which would suck ass.
 
[quote name='thrustbucket']So did I screw up getting Sebastian in my game? I finished the Duty quests and he said he was going to petition the vicecount about something and he's gone. He's not on my character select screen and I don't know how to find him again.

Is that what you guys mean about his quest being broken?[/QUOTE]

There are more quests with him in Act 2 and thats when you get him
 
Hmm.

Someone help me out. The "final decision" is bugging the shit out of me.

What possible character motivation could someone have for siding with the templar? Unless you're absolutely, 100% in love with Fenris or something... why would you do it? Disregarding Sebastian for a moment, a plurality of your party uses magic, including either yourself or your sister. Is there some path earlier in the game that you can take where setting yourself up to kill each and every one of them (And yourself? I haven't played as a mage. Are you even allowed to side with the templar as a mage?) makes sense?
 
[quote name='The Crotch']Hmm.

Someone help me out. The "final decision" is bugging the shit out of me.

What possible character motivation could someone have for siding with the templar? Unless you're absolutely, 100% in love with Fenris or something... why would you do it? Disregarding Sebastian for a moment, a plurality of your party uses magic, including either yourself or your sister. Is there some path earlier in the game that you can take where setting yourself up to kill each and every one of them (And yourself? I haven't played as a mage. Are you even allowed to side with the templar as a mage?) makes sense?
[/QUOTE]


You can kill off Bethany or Carver at the end of Act 1 by taking them to the Deep Roads with you (Well, I know Carver does if you're a mage) and of course it makes little sense. You can side with Templars as a mage and yes, it makes little sense. Hell, it doesn't even make sense to side with the Templars at all because of how easily the facts show how damned crazy Meredith is. Though the Mage side to the story isn't all that good either. "Ohnoes, we're backed into a corner SO LETS ALL USE BLOOD MAGIC!"

My big question when I came to that point is where the hell is the option to destroy both sides in the conflict because they're both fucking retards? Even though that pretty much happens if you choose the mage side.


And to anybody else who has beaten the game:

And in anybody elses game did they explain how the fuck Anders pulled off what he did?
 
Like I said, if there was at least a cutscene of Orsino being a boss in monster form and wrecking some templar shit before turning on you, I'd accept it. As is... feh. Everything just seems horribly narrowed down and hurried at the end.

As for Anders? Did you do his sidequests, where you gathered all the bomb materials and distracted what's-her-name? Because I'm curious if everything goes all the same if you don't help him out with that shit. I'm assuming he gets it done regardless...

Now, it would have made a fuck of a lot more sense for him to just, you know, set the bomb thing in Meredith's quarters. Not like we never had the opportunity for that.
 
I had supported the mages the whole game but at that moment I wanted to side with the Templars just to spite Anders because I was so disgusted with him. (I was really happy that I had the option of executing him shortly thereafter.) The game tries to make the choice seem more morally ambiguous by putting good and evil individuals on both sides, but yeah, all in all it would be tough to argue that the Templars are in the right.
 
It's not even a matter of "in the right".
Even if you're playing a character who gives zero fucks about "the right"... there's still no damn reason to side with them.

I just don't get it, dammit!

Also, anyone know of a proper, functioning save editor for Origins and its expansions? I want to experiment with a few different "world states", so to speak (What happens if you never recruited Anders in Awakenings, for example?), but I'd rather not go around downloading a bunch of different, poorly-labelled save files to try and find the ones I want. The toolset lets you bugger around with stats and what-not, but that's not really what I'm going for...
 
Anyone else think that the creature
you meet in Sundermount's caves looks like the Star Wars Beast in Episode 2?!;)
413A42MPWFL._SL500_.jpg
 
[quote name='MSUHitman']How do we tell if this is an issue, I didn't quite understand how to check from the quoted post. I've never used Sebastian outside of his quests but I use Isabella quite a bit (at full friendship in the middle of the romance) and I thought my attacks had slown down but I wasn't 100% sure.[/QUOTE]

If I'm reading the bug report post properly, it only triggers if you put them in your party at full friendship, remove them, save the game without putting them back in the party, and then reload that save. I'm not certain, though; the post is a bit confusing.

Either way, another glowing chapter in Bioware's QA process.

EDIT: After reading a bit more, it seems going somewhere where they're automatically removed from the party once they hit full friendship is enough to trigger the bug, and thereafter it will compound anytime they're removed by any means. So the only solutions seem to be to not use them, never max their friendship or be sure to always manually remove them from your group.
 
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Now that I have a little bit of free time to spend on CAG, I suppose I'll post my thoughts on the game overall. Seeing as how I usually enjoy the reviews done over at GameTrailers, I'll post my (non-spoiler) opinions in a similar style:

Story

The story of DA2 instantly pulled me in, as opposed to DA:O and most other RPGs. There's no epic prologue and no "In the year 1200 A.D. ..." grand entrances into the world of Thedas; you're simply introduced to the idea that the events of DA2 will be contained within a framed narrative which is being told by one of the people that knew your character before he or she became The Champion. I enjoyed the fact that this story would be taking place over a long stretch of time, and that the entire storyline wasn't solely focused on one big event (i.e. defeating the Archdemon in Origins). I love how Hawke's story is divided into three acts, and that they all have their own unique vibe and atmosphere - especially the fact that you can almost feel the tension building as you progress through the years in Kirkwall. Another great aspect of this "journey through time" is the idea of change over time - with Kirkwall itself, and with its citizens. The story in DA2 is also MUCH more personal than it was in DA:O, allowing you to relate to the feeling of being on your own, the feeling of loss and remorse, the feeling of struggle and having your back against the wall, the feeling of friendship and rivalry and love that you share with a handful of people over numerous years, and the feeling of triumph you feel when you reach this rank of Champion that you've heard so much about - all the feelings that the game wants you to feel, and more!

Kudos to the Dragon Age team for implementing a fairly unique way of telling a story in a video game.

Design

For many people game design is the center of discussion right now, and rightly so. This area of the game features the highest of the highs and the lowest of the lows, depending on who you talk to. Personally, I don't want to limit discussion to just the good or bad - each aspect should receive its fair amount of criticism or praise. It really feels like you could attach a negative opinion on just about anything positive one could say about the game; almost like each favorable comment has a "but..." attached to it. For example, one could mention that the various environments (mountainside, inner-city, deep cavern, tropical coastline, under-city, cathedral/church, fortress, pub, brothel, etc.) all have their own unique identities and feel to them - which is a great thing. However, in addition to that comment, you almost have to mention the fact that DA2 abuses the idea of a "copy/paste" environment when dealing with these areas, which quickly diminishes any sense of distinction you have with these places.

Unfortunately, the technical side of DA2 - the shortcuts used to reproduce the same five or six environments over and over, the glitches (everywhere from graphical to game-breaking), various choices they made with character design, etc. - is its most heavily flawed side. Whenever these types of technical problems exist with a game, it's always hard to get a real sense of what to expect when you put the disc in, because each person who plays the game may/may not encounter the same problem and each person has their own specific way of dealing with these problems (and, to some extent, each person has a set amount of bullshit that he/she can handle should these problems show up).

There are definitely some bright, shining beacons of hope when it comes to this game (mostly mentioned in the spoiler-y part at the end) - but they are not without some definite disappointments.

Gameplay

The gameplay of Dragon Age II is made of pure fucking gold. To use a line from one of my demo impressions, it feels like the combat of DA2 actually has a soul now (compared to Origins). It's a re-energized, faster paced, exciting, fresh take on tactical-styled combat, and it doesn't even have to sacrifice the tactics. In fact, I believe that DA2 is even more tactical than DA:O - especially with the addition of cross-class combos, new abilities, and more challenging boss fights. Classes feel fairly balanced for the most part, and they all have their own unique gameplay characteristics that separate them from each other. Rogues play like rogues, warriors play like warriors, and mages play like mages - there's no more "class identity theft" like there was in Origins and, better yet, each class is a viable choice for any sort of team build that you can think of making!

Unlike with Origins, I'm not dragging my heels to go into the next fight - I'm actually foaming at the mouth for it. I absolutely can't wait for the next set of thugs to jump down from the rooftops thinking they are Joe Cool with the element of surprise, or the next Ogre to come charging up to my allies and I and expecting any of us to give him a second thought.

Simply put: Dragon Age II has some of the most rewarding combat of any recent RPG that I can think of. It's still no Mass Effect, but man is it a nice alternative.

Presentation

Though it may seem like the gameplay underwent the biggest transformation from DA:O to DA2, I believe that the game's presentation is the biggest beneficiary of the past year and a half's work. Thanks in part to the ME dialog wheel, conversations have become much more exciting and interactive and cutscenes have certainly been upgraded as well. There's a lot more emotion being pumped out of this game, from the calm moments when you're in a companion's home talking to them all the way up to the large-scale, epic fights taking place in the streets of Kirkwall. The soundtrack in DA2 enhances this experience tenfold, with music ranging from "epic fight of the century" to "joyous, celebratory pub songs".

Everything from the scenery, to the atmosphere, to the combat, to the characters, and the story-telling itself have received a considerable boost in the quality of presentation that existed in DA:O.

---------------------

I'll post specific things that I liked/disliked at a later point (probably tomorrow or Friday). For now, I'll just say that this game is the current leader for the Timesink of the Year award - at least for now :cool:
 
I beat this game yesterday. I did every quest and watched all the dialogue during the first act. I had gotten bored with the dialogue and spammed the X button during it in act 2. By act 3, I just wanted the game to end and worked on the main quests.

I've never been a big RPG fan. I had heard they dumbed down DA2, but I guess it isn't dumb enough for me. :)
 
I had a friend who could not get into Origins. The difficulty inconsistency, among other things, really pissed him off. He made comments like 'It just isn't as good as Diablo'. Unfortunately, I think that point of view is pretty popular and is why DA2 is what it is - and ultimately why most of our RPG's continue to get "dumbed down" further.
 
[quote name='The Crotch']
Like I said, if there was at least a cutscene of Orsino being a boss in monster form and wrecking some templar shit before turning on you, I'd accept it. As is... feh. Everything just seems horribly narrowed down and hurried at the end.

As for Anders? Did you do his sidequests, where you gathered all the bomb materials and distracted what's-her-name? Because I'm curious if everything goes all the same if you don't help him out with that shit. I'm assuming he gets it done regardless...

Now, it would have made a fuck of a lot more sense for him to just, you know, set the bomb thing in Meredith's quarters. Not like we never had the opportunity for that.
[/QUOTE]


That would make too much sense. I guess the reason why I never did that quest because it was in Act 3 and at that point I was pretty tired of doing side quests (I completed most, but not Anders) as I had already put in over 30 hours and I was quickly losing interest. You'd think a companion side quest like that should show up under Main Story. Though I suppose it's kept out as it's purely optional and not required to advance the story.

Though I don't see how a bomb would cause a giant red beam to fall from the sky and blow the fuck out of everything.
 
Oddly the issues with Dragon Age 2 and waiting for a patch has made me angry at my entire Xbox library. I think I'm going to play my PS3 for awhile until they fix it damnit!
 
Ok could someone maybe post a quick pointer or edit the first post with the known bugs?

I did not play DAO but I really am enjoying this game. 12 hours in and I am still on the first main part running around and having fun doing quests. I cannot seem to complete the Herbalists Tasks however. I go to Sundermount where it says I should go but I already cleared that area out earlier with Merril and there is nothing there for me to collect. maybe just a bug for me?

I am also reading about these party bugs, something about Sebastian and him being in your party in act 1, well he is in mine and I am assuming I am in act 1 still, I would really hate to get 40 hours in and then get bugged out. I am not a real spoiler guy and I don't like reading FAQ's on games like this the first time I play them. But this thread has gotten more posts on if they like the game or not it is hard to search for real discussion about game bugs.
 
[quote name='Magus8472']If I'm reading the bug report post properly, it only triggers if you put them in your party at full friendship, remove them, save the game without putting them back in the party, and then reload that save. I'm not certain, though; the post is a bit confusing.

Either way, another glowing chapter in Bioware's QA process.

EDIT: After reading a bit more, it seems going somewhere where they're automatically removed from the party once they hit full friendship is enough to trigger the bug, and thereafter it will compound anytime they're removed by any means. So the only solutions seem to be to not use them, never max their friendship or be sure to always manually remove them from your group.[/QUOTE]

But is there any way I can tell if this has happened? I've never used Sebastian outside of his companion quests but there has been a couple of times I've had to take Isabella out (talking to head Qunari dude) or just swapped her out real quick to update the weapons/amulets of my other members then swapped her back in.

I guess I will just stop playing until a patch as I don't want to replay 15 hours and there seems to be no way to tell if I've suffered these problems or not.
 
[quote name='Kezmer']I did not play DAO but I really am enjoying this game. 12 hours in and I am still on the first main part running around and having fun doing quests. I cannot seem to complete the Herbalists Tasks however. I go to Sundermount where it says I should go but I already cleared that area out earlier with Merril and there is nothing there for me to collect. maybe just a bug for me?[/QUOTE]

I only had issue with the second Herbalist Task quest. Even though it was showing the area I couldn't find the enemy I needed. It turned out it was related to a specific Merrill quest that only appears after a certain point in the game.
 
[quote name='Kezmer']Ok could someone maybe post a quick pointer or edit the first post with the known bugs?[/QUOTE]

1. A "conversation quest" with Merrill triggers at the beginning of Act 3 instead of when it's supposed to. It spoils what happens in the quest that's supposed to come before it, but does not impede progress.

2. Achievements for the Exiled Prince DLC are awarded on BioWare Social Network but do not unlock on Xbox Live.

3. When Sebastian and Isabela are at full friendship and are removed from the party, their passive friendship buff is removed from the main character twice, resulting in a permanent stat decrease every time this happens. Added up enough times, it can eventually make the PC so slow and weak that the game becomes essentially unplayable, especially on harder difficulties. Entering Gamlen or Hawke's house does count as removing characters from the party.

Also, some notes on potentially misleading achievement descriptions:

1. For Master Craftsman, you need to actually craft one of every item in one of the crafting schools, not just collect all of the recipes.

2. For Supplier, you need to collect every crafting resource in the game, not just one of each type.

3. For Great Minds Think Alike, you must max the friendship of four companions, or the rivalry of four companions, you can't mix and match.
 
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Actually I do think Bethany/Carver count as they count for the individual friend/rival achievements & when I got the 4 achievement my 4 friends were Bethany, Varric, Isabella, & Anders in that order. Just got Aveline to full friendship an I'm close on Fenril. Merrill & Sebastian are stuck in no man's land.
 
Really? Wow, well that makes things a mite easier for me. Thanks for the correction.

Can it be during Act 2 when your sibling is not a member of the "active" party? What about if they die?
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']1. A "conversation quest" with Merrill triggers at the beginning of Act 3 instead of when it's supposed to. It spoils what happens in the quest that's supposed to come before it, but does not impede progress.

2. Achievements for the Exiled Prince DLC are awarded on BioWare Social Network but do not unlock on Xbox Live.

3. When Sebastian and Isabela are at full friendship and are removed from the party, their passive friendship buff is removed from the main character twice, resulting in a permanent stat decrease every time this happens. Added up enough times, it can eventually make the PC so slow and weak that the game becomes essentially unplayable, especially on harder difficulties. Entering Gamlen or Hawke's house does count as removing characters from the party.

Also, some notes on potentially misleading achievement descriptions:

1. For Master Craftsman, you need to actually craft one of every item in one of the crafting schools, not just collect all of the recipes.

2. For Supplier, you need to collect every crafting resource in the game, not just one of each type.

3. For Great Minds Think Alike, you must max the friendship of four companions, or the rivalry of four companions, you can't mix and match.[/QUOTE]

Crap, I swap out party members all the time so they've got the best weapons and/or I can work on their abilities. That totally sucks. Thx for the heads up though.:applause:
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']Really? Wow, well that makes things a mite easier for me. Thanks for the correction.

Can it be during Act 2 when your sibling is not a member of the "active" party? What about if they die?
[/QUOTE]

Not sure about dead but not member of party yes, they can be off with the Wardens etc., you can still get it.
 
Installing the game now. Excited to make a 2 handed warrior. I think Ill have two mages (one attack one support) and a rogue on my team.

About how long is just the main quest?
 
My time was with "most" sidequests (probably 90%) completed, but on Casual difficulty. It wasn't a speedrun, I promise! :) I don't know what's taking the rest of you people so long.
 
[quote name='seanr1221']Installing the game now. Excited to make a 2 handed warrior. I think Ill have two mages (one attack one support) and a rogue on my team.

About how long is just the main quest?[/QUOTE]

Two-Handed warriors deal SO much damage. Whirlwind and Scythe and the easiest way to clear out huge groups of enemies.
 
Thanks guys.

---

[quote name='GhostShark']Two-Handed warriors deal SO much damage. Whirlwind and Scythe and the easiest way to clear out huge groups of enemies.[/QUOTE]

Yeah I'm maxing that tree out first, and mostly putting points into strength and health.

For my sister, I taught her heal and the spell that increases attack power. Then I put her into a defensive stance for combat.
 
You missed a bug, Ryuu: there's an act 3 sidequest that can't be completed. Something about a kidnapping on the Wounded Coast or some shit. You can get the quest, but nothing beyond that.

Also, found a save generator. Yarr!

EDIT: Also, there's a bug where you wear your shield on your back upside down.
 
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[quote name='seanr1221']Thanks guys.

---



Yeah I'm maxing that tree out first, and mostly putting points into strength and health.

For my sister, I taught her heal and the spell that increases attack power. Then I put her into a defensive stance for combat.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Heroic Aura is nice, I'd also advise to take her farther into the healing tree and get Haste.
 
[quote name='MSUHitman']But is there any way I can tell if this has happened? I've never used Sebastian outside of his companion quests but there has been a couple of times I've had to take Isabella out (talking to head Qunari dude) or just swapped her out real quick to update the weapons/amulets of my other members then swapped her back in.

I guess I will just stop playing until a patch as I don't want to replay 15 hours and there seems to be no way to tell if I've suffered these problems or not.[/QUOTE]

Basically, it seems that if you have the icon in Hawke's attributes pane for Isabela or Sebastian's friendship abilities when they aren't in the party, you've triggered the bug. Though you can also just check see if your animation speed (Isabela) or damage resistance values (Sebastian) are worse than they should be.
 
Just finished Act 1, I've got Bethany, Isabela, and Fenris friend-locked, Varric is a hair's breadth away, and Merrill is well on her way to full rivalry. Haven't missed a potion recipe, crafting resource, or Chantry book yet, so I'm on track to mop up everything in the original 1000 except for Mass Exodus on this playthrough.
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']except for Mass Exodus on this playthrough.[/QUOTE]

I wanted to try each class so I already got this. Took all over 30 minutes. Also showed me I don't like Rogue in this one.
 
Really? I'm currently a Rogue and liking it; it doesn't just feel like "Warrior Jr." like it did in Origins. I am looking forward to trying a Mage for the third playthrough though.
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']Really? I'm currently a Rogue and liking it; it doesn't just feel like "Warrior Jr." like it did in Origins. I am looking forward to trying a Mage for the third playthrough though.[/QUOTE]

I played up until Kirkwall with each class and Rogue did feel like Warrior Jr. to me more so then Origins. Also was only class I got knocked out in.

I loved the mage. Almost went with that for my first playthrough.
 
[quote name='Ryuukishi']1. A "conversation quest" with Merrill triggers at the beginning of Act 3 instead of when it's supposed to. It spoils what happens in the quest that's supposed to come before it, but does not impede progress.

2. Achievements for the Exiled Prince DLC are awarded on BioWare Social Network but do not unlock on Xbox Live.

3. When Sebastian and Isabela are at full friendship and are removed from the party, their passive friendship buff is removed from the main character twice, resulting in a permanent stat decrease every time this happens. Added up enough times, it can eventually make the PC so slow and weak that the game becomes essentially unplayable, especially on harder difficulties. Entering Gamlen or Hawke's house does count as removing characters from the party.

Also, some notes on potentially misleading achievement descriptions:

1. For Master Craftsman, you need to actually craft one of every item in one of the crafting schools, not just collect all of the recipes.

2. For Supplier, you need to collect every crafting resource in the game, not just one of each type.

3. For Great Minds Think Alike, you must max the friendship of four companions, or the rivalry of four companions, you can't mix and match.[/QUOTE]

Thank you very much for this ! I must be terrible because I am nearing the end of Act 1 I think ( i am almost out of quests) and I don't have hardly anyone at friend or rival, maybe Carver is almost full rival because no matter what conversation I choose he hates it, or anytime I help a mage he hates it. seems most of mine are just teetering in the middle after 12 hours. Not sure what I am doing wrong, I am just playing the conversations from a good hearted standpoint
 
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