ECA Discussion Thread - WARNING: Some CAGs Who Cancelled Are Being Auto-Renewed

[quote name='bigsick']I'm in that same boat. I never sent a snail mail letter and cancelled through the website when it finally became available to do so, but still received a thank you renewal letter. I can't login to the site anymore and haven't been since I've cancelled.[/QUOTE]

That makes two now... Very interesting. Keep an eye on your credit card statements to see if they bill you, or if they just sent out an erroneous email. Thanks.
 
So, the consumerist and a number of other sites carried the story before, has anyone reminded them and showed them this update thread? At this point there is zero "reasonable explanation" for what they're doing.
 
[quote name='elrechazao']So, the consumerist and a number of other sites carried the story before, has anyone reminded them and showed them this update thread? At this point there is zero "reasonable explanation" for what they're doing.[/QUOTE]

Someone here said that they notified them. At this point, if the ECA says they know about this new problem, I'm willing to give them the upcoming work week to try and deal with it.

Sucks that it was easier to quit hotmoms.com than the ECA.
 
[quote name='Halo05']Sucks that it was easier to quit hotmoms.com than the ECA.[/QUOTE]

ROFL!

but yeah, I just wrote to [email protected] as well. just shot a few short sentences and linked this thread (was that wrong for me to do??) anyways, lets bring the heat..again!
 
[quote name='iRent']
Based on searches I would say the earliest this popped up was early September.[/QUOTE]

Yep, pretty sure it went free in early Sept. I joined as a paying member in August and the free code came out like 2-3 weeks later.
 
[quote name='Halo05']Sucks that it was easier to quit hotmoms.com than the ECA.[/QUOTE]

You'd...quit that? Turn in your cag badge and please vacate the premises.
 
[quote name='bigsick']I'm in that same boat. I never sent a snail mail letter and cancelled through the website when it finally became available to do so, but still received a thank you renewal letter. I can't login to the site anymore and haven't been since I've cancelled.[/QUOTE]

same, couldn't reply to the email so went to the feedback forum and sent them the following:

To who it may concern-

I had set my account to no additional term, and specifically not to auto-renewal. I now have received an email saying I have been auto-renewed and my account shows a completed order, dated 4/20.
This charge needs to be canceled and the auto-renewal stopped. All my account information needs to be removed from your system, and I am formally requesting the deletion of my billing information. I will require a confirmation that the order has been canceled, any charges have been refunded and my information has been removed from your system.
 
Why are a lot of people getting renewal notices now? Was there a membership drive back in April/May 09?

I think mine expires in July.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I'll win any chargeback claim (especially with my screenshot and email confirmation) but it's just a huge pain in the ass I'd rather not deal with come July.

Stupid ECA. Shadiness or incompetence -- they suck ass.
 
[quote name='confoosious']Why are a lot of people getting renewal notices now? Was there a membership drive back in April/May 09?

I think mine expires in July.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure I'll win any chargeback claim (especially with my screenshot and email confirmation) but it's just a huge pain in the ass I'd rather not deal with come July.

Stupid ECA. Shadiness or incompetence -- they suck ass.[/QUOTE]

It first popularized around April, Im guessing you were of the people that signed up with the GIMAG coupon.
 
[quote name='hhhdx4']It first popularized around April, Im guessing you were of the people that signed up with the GIMAG coupon.[/QUOTE]

No, I actually paid $19.99.

The GIMAG code was in September.
 
Just when you thought things couldn't get any weirder, here's a random PM:

[quote name='Bayou23']Hello. My name is Jason Andersen (PR Director, ECA) and I wanted to let you know that we have posted a new message in our forums that addresses the current situation that is being discussed. Feel free to use the update (below) in the thread and please credit it to the ECA. Thank you.

Updated information from the ECA regarding recent billing inquiries:

The ECA took swift and comprehensive action last December when members
requested that they be permitted to cancel the annual auto-renewal of their
membership and/or their affiliation with the organization as a whole, should
they desire. In an effort to accommodate those requests, we built out a new
module which would enable that functionality and then manually deleted the
database references to those users. But we were, and are, required by law to
maintain a copy of membership lists for a certain period of time. As a
result, the second reference - which we believed isolated from the member
list - was used by the system to automatically renew a limited number of
former members when their renewal date occurred. We were advised of the
error by complaints and commentary made on third-party forum sites not
related to the ECA on Friday afternoon and are currently correcting the
programming mistake. The effected users' credit cards will, of course, be
refunded the incorrectly debited funds and they have our sincerest apologies
for any inconvenience. If anyone has any further questions regarding their
account, please use the ECA feedback form here:
http://www.theeca.com/feed_back

- The ECA[/QUOTE]
 
Bs and sending an email stating they deleted your bank info but actually kept it is against the law at least in my state. Maintaining name/addy is not however but that shouldn't result in a charge.
 
Based on that pm, it seems like it's just a mistake that they are now aware of and will fix. I don't have any specialized knowledge of cc law and the legality of keeping your info, but I think if you were charged they will fix it soon. Doesn't seem like that many people were affected. Assuming they fix it, doesn't seem like a huge deal to me. Just make sure to check your cc statement, which you should do any ways. Probably when they manually removed members who cancelled by mail, they didn't do something to remove them from getting billed. I was not charged and cancelled online.
 
[quote name='caltab']Based on that pm, it seems like it's just a mistake that they are now aware of and will fix. I don't have any specialized knowledge of cc law and the legality of keeping your info, but I think if you were charged they will fix it soon. Doesn't seem like that many people were affected. Assuming they fix it, doesn't seem like a huge deal to me. Just make sure to check your cc statement, which you should do any ways. Probably when they manually removed members who cancelled by mail, they didn't do something to remove them from getting billed. I was not charged and cancelled online.[/QUOTE]


Read back. Pretty sure multiple people have stated how they canceled, online or letter, and they've all been charged.
 
that is so crazy..well, it'll be interesting to see if these get refunded, since I'm guessing all these CAGs that were auto-renewed have already called their CC companies..
 
[quote name='Vortextk']Read back. Pretty sure multiple people have stated how they canceled, online or letter, and they've all been charged.[/QUOTE]

From what I read, multiple people got an email saying they were charged, regardless of how they cancelled. But, I don't believe they were all charged, only the ones that cancelled by mail were. I could be wrong though. I think there are actually 2 separate issues: An errant email to random people and people being charged who cancelled by mail.
 
[quote name='caltab']From what I read, multiple people got an email saying they were charged, regardless of how they cancelled. But, I don't believe they were all charged, only the ones that cancelled by mail were. I could be wrong though. I think there are actually 2 separate issues: An errant email to random people and people being charged who cancelled by mail.[/QUOTE]
You'd think with your nose so far up the Eca's a$$ at this point you'd smell sh#t but apparently not, huh?
 
[quote name='blissskr']You'd think with your nose so far up the Eca's a$$ at this point you'd smell sh#t but apparently not, huh?[/QUOTE]

Whatever dude, for you- who was personally affected it's a bigger deal and I don't blame you for being upset. But all I'm saying is I don't think it's going to turn into a big deal for people who haven't been charged. I cannot imagine they would risk not fixing it based on what happened in december now that they know there's a problem. As I said I have no specialized knowledge of cc law and any issues with them keeping your info, so I wasn't really commenting on that part of it.
 
[quote name='caltab']Whatever dude, for you- who was personally affected it's a bigger deal and I don't blame you for being upset. But all I'm saying is I don't think it's going to turn into a big deal for people who haven't been charged. I cannot imagine they would risk not fixing it based on what happened in december now that they know there's a problem. As I said I have no specialized knowledge of cc law and any issues with them keeping your info, so I wasn't really commenting on that part of it.[/QUOTE]
My point being you constantly rationalize and defend them. Reminds me of a wife that gets beat by her husband but does the same thing and never leaves because it can all be rationalized right? Frankly this issue just shouldn't be occurring at all plain and simple, black and white. Anyone that canceled shouldn't be finding a surprise charge no matter the reason being given and the Eca has set itself up for one hell of a class action lawsuit at this point.
 
The ECA's explanation makes sense, in how such events could occur, and I am glad to hear that they intend to rectify the situation. However, there are still some concerns that have been raised beyond the simple act of the billing.

1) The legality of maintaining a second list of information is an interesting topic. I cannot speak to whether such a list is legal or not (I'm sure ECA's statement on being mandated stems from anti-terrorism legislation regarding funding), there is also consumer protection laws. So this may be a legal speed bump in one or more states.

2) The ECA stated to a great many individuals that their personal information had been deleted. Now they claim, quite broadly, that it was not, and was instead placed on a second list (which they say is required by law). Mandated or no, this raises the point that the ECA made false statements regarding the status of personal and billing information.

3) There is now a general question of the ECA's competence (once again) if a mistake the scale of billing an entirely wrong list of people can occur without notice.

4) Whether mandated by law to maintain a second list, or not, the existence of such a list, and it's ability to enter into the mainstream of ECA's business, raises serious questions about the security of that list, and the information therein. If the list could easily be used, accidentally, in the billing process, there is concern that it could just as easily be accidentally lost, or fall into the wrong hands.

So while its good that they seem to realize the cause of the issue and intend to fix it, much like the situation which arose in December, this incident raises larger questions regarding the ECA, how it conducts business, and how safe our (supposedly) deleted personal information is.
 
[quote name='blissskr']My point being you constantly rationalize and defend them. Reminds me of a wife that gets beat by her husband but does the same thing and never leaves because it can all be rationalized right? Frankly this issue just shouldn't be occurring at all plain and simple, black and white. Anyone that canceled shouldn't be finding a surprise charge no matter the reason being given and the Eca has set itself up for one hell of a class action lawsuit at this point.[/QUOTE]


I really don't see the comparison. I could, if his rationalization was ridiculous...But I think that he just doesn't find this such a "big deal". Which it isn't $20 is nothing. We're taking this issue personally, he's not. The solution "is" simple, but it shouldn't be happening.

Overall, this situation blows, and bliss, stop looking for a fight. We've all been fucked by the ECA, some people just tend to walk away and rub their sore asses.
 
[quote name='thehoweller']I really don't see the comparison. I could, if his rationalization was ridiculous...But I think that he just doesn't find this such a "big deal". Which it isn't $20 is nothing. We're taking this issue personally, he's not. The solution "is" simple, but it shouldn't be happening.

Overall, this situation blows, and bliss, stop looking for a fight. We've all been fucked by the ECA, some people just tend to walk away and rub their sore asses.[/QUOTE]
I'm not looking for a fight, but I'm sorry that its come to this sad state of affairs were people take anything and are such fools or so apathetic that they don't care one way or another what excuse is given to them they believe it. Fact is the Eca fixed this already remember? but a select few seem to forget this. Most of us gave the issue up and obtained what we thought was a satisfactory resolution with the Eca and dropped the matter but it appears that it wasn't really truly resolved at all. And if you feel like believing anything they tell you fine; I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion and I'm glad your more than happy to pay them an additional 19.99 for your canceled account.
 
[quote name='blissskr']I'm not looking for a fight, but I'm sorry that its come to this sad state of affairs were people take anything and are such fools or so apathetic that they don't care one way or another what excuse is given to them they believe it. Fact is the Eca fixed this already remember? but a select few seem to forget this. Most of us gave the issue up and obtained what we thought was a satisfactory resolution with the Eca and dropped the matter but it appears that it wasn't really truly resolved at all. And if you feel like believing anything they tell you fine; I'm not saying you're not entitled to your opinion and I'm glad your more than happy to pay them an additional 19.99 for your canceled account.[/QUOTE]

This is the last all say on this, you guys really shouldn't be overly concerned with what I say, save your energy for something else. But, I was not charged the 20 bucks and my renewal date had passed. From what I've read the problem seems to be isolated to those that mailed letters to cancel. The fact that we were not all charged leads me to believe it was just an error and that there was no intent to defraud us. How you judge the ECA for this and other errors is entirely up to you. The bottom line is, I already made my judgement of the eca when I cancelled, I see no need to spend more of my personal time worrying about them, I already cut my ties. I have enough to worry about right now. If it's a fight others want to fight, so be it. I don't judge them for that. If they are truly concerned about other cags and are trying to protect them, good for them. Cag is a great community in that sense.
 
[quote name='shrike4242']Just when you thought things couldn't get any weirder, here's a random PM:[/QUOTE]
ROFL, are they using the same company that manages WAR subscriptions? You just can't make this shit up.
 
[quote name='Jodou']ROFL, are they using the same company that manages WAR subscriptions? You just can't make this shit up.[/QUOTE]

Was there some kind of snafu similar to this with WAR subscriptions or something?
 
[quote name='kodave']Was there some kind of snafu similar to this with WAR subscriptions or something?[/QUOTE]

They ended up charging people 10-20 times the normal subscription rate and charging accounts that were inactive. Hilarity ensued.
 
[quote name='sabanoo']They ended up charging people 10-20 times the normal subscription rate and charging accounts that were inactive. Hilarity ensued.[/QUOTE]

Yeah but that was clearly a glitch, not some scheme where you have to cancel your renewal in more than one "step".
 
[quote name='Nesrie']Yeah but that was clearly a glitch, not some scheme where you have to cancel your renewal in more than one "step".[/QUOTE]

Also, they apologized profusely for it instead of blaming the problem on "exploiters".
 
[quote name='caltab']From what I've read the problem seems to be isolated to those that mailed letters to cancel. The fact that we were not all charged leads me to believe it was just an error and that there was no intent to defraud us. How you judge the ECA for this and other errors is entirely up to you.[/QUOTE]

The problem, as far as I'm concerned, is simple: We were told by the ECA that our credit card information had been removed from their system. It was directly stated in the email that was sent when the cancellations were processed. As far as I'm concerned, the fact that people who were told this are now being billed means that they outright lied to us.

Hey, mistakes happen. I get that, and in a case where an honest mistake is made, I'm willing to be lenient. But you know what? If you tell me that you removed my credit card info from your system, then you had goddamn well better have removed my credit card info from your system.

So they're legally required to keep a listing of former members. Ok, again, no problem -- while I'm not versed in the law regarding non-profit organizations, I can understand that this might well be the case, and I'm even willing to accept it at face value. But you know what I know damn well that they're not legally required to keep? My credit card info.

In full disclosure, I'm not one of the former members that has been billed (yet) -- my account would be up for renewal, if I hadn't canceled it, in August (and yes, I was a paying member, for those to whom that seems to matter). However, I am led to believe from this happening that they quite likely still have my credit card number (granted, a virtual account number, so I have less to worry about than a lot of people) stored on their system, after they told me that it had been deleted. I am not ok with this.

It's all well and good that they have to maintain lists, their lists got crossed, and blah blah blah. What I want them to explain to me is why they still have our billing information on file for a mistake like this to be able to happen in the first place.

Beyond all of the other issues of truthfulness, etc. -- from the simple security standpoint that I don't like my credit card number being stored on any systems where it doesn't need to be stored (one of the big reasons I gave them a virtual account number in the first place), the fact that they're storing that info is a problem.
 
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[quote name='arcane93']The problem, as far as I'm concerned, is simple: We were told by the ECA that our credit card information had been removed from their system. It was directly stated in the email that was sent when the cancellations were processed. As far as I'm concerned, the fact that people who were told this are now being billed means that they outright lied to us.

Hey, mistakes happen. I get that, and in a case where an honest mistake is made, I'm willing to be lenient. But you know what? If you tell me that you removed my credit card info from your system, then you had goddamn well better have removed my credit card info from your system.

So they're legally required to keep a listing of former members. Ok, again, no problem -- while I'm not versed in the law regarding non-profit organizations, I can understand that this might well be the case, and I'm even willing to accept it at face value. But you know what I know damn well that they're not legally required to keep? My credit card info.

In full disclosure, I'm not one of the former members that has been billed (yet) -- my account would be up for renewal, if I hadn't canceled it, in August (and yes, I was a paying member, for those to whom that seems to matter). However, I am led to believe from this happening that they quite likely still have my credit card number (granted, a virtual account number, so I have less to worry about than a lot of people) stored on their system, after they told me that it had been deleted. I am not ok with this.

It's all well and good that they have to maintain lists, their lists got crossed, and blah blah blah. What I want them to explain to me is why they still have our billing information on file for a mistake like this to be able to happen in the first place.

Beyond all of the other issues of truthfulness, etc. -- from the simple security standpoint that I don't like my credit card number being stored on any systems where it doesn't need to be stored (one of the big reasons I gave them a virtual account number in the first place), the fact that they're storing that info is a problem.[/QUOTE]
Well said.

It's fucking sad that the idiots at the ECA can't man up and say they screwed up, but continue to put the blame on their (former) members.

I hope Hal chokes on his ego.
 
I still don't think they're doing this purposely. I just think the ECA is wildly incompetent. It seems like most parts of it are run by complete and utter amateurs; unqualified, incapable idiots who should never touch this sort of thing again. As I said, I don't think the ECA has intent, but they do have a dishonest agenda when it comes to fixing or addressing problems, which makes us question everything else. I see people questioning and debating the veracity of the statement that shrike posted, but it should be obvious to everyone that it's either not entirely true, it's completely due to incompetency, or both.

I'm not still angry at the ECA (although I am surprised that they're still around and not even watching themselves), I just don't understand the apologists in this thread, and similarly, the people who think it's a giant conspiracy. This is just a bunch of idiots. A bunch of idiots that do not represent gamers, our interests, or gamer interest groups.
 
[quote name='Siterath']If the list could easily be used, accidentally, in the billing process, there is concern that it could just as easily be accidentally lost, or fall into the wrong hands.

[/QUOTE]

[quote name='confoosious']
If Walmart did this, you know those same people would be ready to burn the place down.[/QUOTE]

I'm not gonna say it.
 
[quote name='Unrealevil']I still don't think they're doing this purposely. I just think the ECA is wildly incompetent. It seems like most parts of it are run by complete and utter amateurs; unqualified, incapable idiots who should never touch this sort of thing again. As I said, I don't think the ECA has intent, but they do have a dishonest agenda when it comes to fixing or addressing problems, which makes us question everything else. I see people questioning and debating the veracity of the statement that shrike posted, but it should be obvious to everyone that it's either not entirely true, it's completely due to incompetency, or both.

I'm not still angry at the ECA (although I am surprised that they're still around and not even watching themselves), I just don't understand the apologists in this thread, and similarly, the people who think it's a giant conspiracy. This is just a bunch of idiots. A bunch of idiots that do not represent gamers, our interests, or gamer interest groups.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. This is not a grand conspiracy to steal your $20 or your credit card information. It is simple idiocy. They have no freaking clue what they are doing, and it keeps showing. And to compound it, they skirt around issues and blame everyone else but themselves.
 
Turned off auto-renew as soon as they updated the site, cancelled completely a little while after, wanted to hold out but suddenly they felt like sending me two emails a day, even after turning off the newsletter subscription. A couple days ago, got another email, this time saying I've been auto renewed. Goddamnit. Though, after checking my statement (and just now double checking) there's no charge.

So if you get an email, don't freak out yet, check your statement to be sure. I also believe they are just 100% incompetent with handling that damn website.
 
I can't shake the feeling that Hal's doing this on purpose so that he can get a kick out of reading all our responses here at CAG. Heck, he might even be "one of us" posting on this very thread.
 
Wow. Sorry for all those who have to deal with this again.

Since my first ECA Amazon order was on April 25, 2009, and I know I signed up on that same day. I haven't had any charges as of now, but I'll keep an eye on it.
 
I was part of the mass CAG cancellations back in December or whenever it was. I got an email telling me my membership was cancelled and my information removed from their database. To make sure I was cancelled I just tried to log in and it told me my username was either blocked or not activated. Does this mean I'm alright?

It's not a pressing concern since auto-renew wouldn't be until September but I just thought I'd check. Even though the ECA is gonna have a hell of a time charging the credit card they have on file since it's defunct as of the beginning of this month.
 
[quote name='PvtChurch']I was part of the mass CAG cancellations back in December or whenever it was. I got an email telling me my membership was cancelled and my information removed from their database. To make sure I was cancelled I just tried to log in and it told me my username was either blocked or not activated. Does this mean I'm alright?[/QUOTE]
In a word, no.
 
Yes, but I got the "thanks for renewing" message even though it shows I'm canceled on the site...which I can still log in to. Doesn't show I've been billed, and if I am, I'll just contact Discover.

Crappy thing is I want to support them and believe in what they're doing.
 
[quote name='WilliamG']You know you can log in and cancel your membership now from the account page, right?[/QUOTE]

No, most of us that already "canceled" can not log in, so please don't try to simplify the issue.
 
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