EGM Postpones Review of MGS4 Because Konami Imposed "Limitations"

[quote name='PINKO']yeah comimg from a magazine that gives it scores based on advertising dollars[/quote]

Prove it.
 
Reading EGM's short explanation, you'd think that Konami was restricting them from saying anything bad about MGS4.

Reading ign's explanation though, it just seems Konami is trying to prevent reviewers from spoiling surprises/story elements.

"In return for letting us play Metal Gear Solid 4 before its release, Konami issued us with a list of things that we're not allowed to discuss. This list of prohibited topics is pretty long, and even extends as far as several facts that the company itself has already made public. Regardless of Konami's list of prohibited topics though, this review was always going to be a spoiler-free zone, because part of the pleasure of playing Guns of the Patriots lies in discovering everything it has to offer. " from ign.

I guess we'll all find out the truth next month. Oh, and I agree egm reviews are some of the worst.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']It just sounds like you just hate them and must find everything that may or may not actually support your claims that they need to be shut down ASAP.[/quote]

Can we please do this without resorting to ad hominem attacks? It's not too much to ask for a little civility here, is it?


You mentioned that Nintendo asked that Snake and Sonic not be mentioned in their reviews. Did any of those reviews say that Nintendo imposed "limitations" on them? I don't recall any that did.

So why would EGM say that about Konami and MGS4? They knew this game would generate a lot of buzz and attention, and controversy/drama = ratings. By even stating that "limitations were imposed", without downright explaining what those limitations were, that tactic leaves it up to the imagination of the reader to fill in the blanks. Look at some of the replies here and you can see how those blanks were filled, resulting in "way to go EGM!", "stick it to the man!", etc.

That's a downright dirty tactic, and it reaches publicity stunt level because they're riding the wave so to speak.
 
you shouldn't have to worry about this. the p3 has installs b/c the blueray drive read disc 2x (or close to this) while the 360 can read disc quite faster and therefore don't need the install.
 
No, but the informal chat wasn't a review either. They mentioned the Smash embargo on EGM Live and that it was stupid and illogical it was.

Why would anybody waste space in their review just to mention an embargo? They don't and neither did EGM. If they mentioned what the limitations were, they'd probably be breaking them in the process and that would just be a boneheaded thing to do, that's the point of an embargo.

Some of the replies here can be explained by a false, sensationalist title and the article itself making snarky comments and assumptions about what EGM's review entails that they'd make this decision.

I don't see any dirty tactics here, just shaky coverage of a situation they can't do anything but guess and make claims about what it's really about.
 
Their stance on the MGS4 is a good move... they shouldn't let publishers influence their editorial content. I would rather read a late, but honest look at a game rather than an early biased one.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Some of the replies here can be explained by a false, sensationalist title and the article itself making snarky comments and assumptions about what EGM's review entails that they'd make this decision.

I don't see any dirty tactics here, just shaky coverage of a situation they can't do anything but guess and make claims about what it's really about.[/quote]

Yeah, the sensationalistic journalism didn't help, and I would have given EGM the benefit of the doubt, had they not done something similar before.

There was a "mystery game" a while back that Shoe said they wouldn't give EGM a cover story unless EGM secured it a good review. The game was never revealed.


EGM knows that drama creates attention. Why didn't they just explain it like how IGN did?

"In return for letting us play Metal Gear Solid 4 before its release, Konami issued us with a list of things that we're not allowed to discuss. This list of prohibited topics is pretty long, and even extends as far as several facts that the company itself has already made public. Regardless of Konami's list of prohibited topics though, this review was always going to be a spoiler-free zone, because part of the pleasure of playing Guns of the Patriots lies in discovering everything it has to offer."


Why didn't they reject and denounce the sensationalism of Kotaku on their website? I'm sure they've heard the news by now.


EGM seems to be enjoying the drama and attention too much to not be a guilty party to this whole fiasco.
 
Because they probably don't feel like it's even anything that they need to be defensive about, because it's all right there in the article in that one sentence. They probably agreed to the same agreement as IGN and other publications, but in the end felt that they didn't want to cut up their reviews just to get them out early. I looked in the thread on the subject in the 1up forums and no staff has posted in it yet, so I doubt they're all that upset about it. They'll be posting the review on 1up anyway, probably when it comes out, so we'll see at least one-third of their review soon enough.

Do they really need to bash, or at least open them up to that possibility, the publisher of whatever game it was for? Should they reveal every publisher that does that? How long would they expect to keep things going smoothly if they did that? Every publication has to deal with that type of thing all the time, so it's not like EGM's the main culprit. They're just the main publication making the existence of those types of things public, which can only do good to get make the readers demand the same of other publications.

Why didn't they write the same thing IGN did? Space. They summed up pretty much the exact same thing, but I guess some people take away different meanings from it. And again, you're still claiming that it's still a publicity stunt, but provide no proof of it.
 
Where does it say that those aren't just a part of this embargo list?

Have you bookmarked these links to bring up whenever you feel the need to post them, Cheapy?

Are you going to change the title of the thread since it's a false statement?
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']Where does it say that those aren't just a part of this embargo list?[/quote] It doesn't...but the IGN review has a line about the review being a "spoiler free zone" which might lead a reader to believe the restricted topics are plot-related. I don't think people would label installation and cutscene length info a spoiler.[quote name='IGN']
In return for letting us play Metal Gear Solid 4 before its release, Konami issued us with a list of things that we're not allowed to discuss. This list of prohibited topics is pretty long, and even extends as far as several facts that the company itself has already made public. Regardless of Konami's list of prohibited topics though, this review was always going to be a spoiler-free zone,...[/quote]
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']
Have you bookmarked these links to bring up whenever you feel the need to post them, Cheapy?[/quote]No. I'm very skilled at typing into Google's search box.
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']
Are you going to change the title of the thread since it's a false statement?[/quote]
Done.
 
They probably anticipate what the internet folk goes nuts over and don't want those particular things to be what they focus on, though they'll do that regardless.
 
If the limitations only include story stuff or gameplay aspects Kojima wants to keep secret before release, then I really don't see the problem.

It has happened before in other games (I know first hand Microsoft didn't want reviewers to talk about the Arbiter in Halo 2 reviews). I don't have the EGM MGS2 review handy, but I'm looking at GameSpot's MGS2 review and there are no mentions of Raiden in it.

My guess is MGS4 has multiple playable characters or some big retarded plot twist that they want to keep under wraps until everyone has spent their $60 on it.
 
I believe EGM mentioned Raiden in their MGS2 review, though I think they had two halves of the review, one spoiler-free and one full of spoilers. I don't remember if it came out pre-launch or not, but I remember reading about the big twist in EGM.
 
[quote name='GF_Eric']If the limitations only include story stuff or gameplay aspects Kojima wants to keep secret before release, then I really don't see the problem.[/quote]I agree, but that's not the case. The item posted on the MTV Multiplayer Blog is accurate. Early reviewers were told by Konami to not mention the install times and cutscene lengths.


[quote name='Rei no Otaku']Considering Cheapy's own overblown reaction to the DMC4 install, I'm not surprised they asked reviewers not to mention it.[/quote]
I don't recall my reaction (beyond stating the facts), but I'm sure it was nothing compared to the people who bought a 20GB PS3, and then found they lost 25% of their HD space after booting up DMC4.
 
90 minutes worth of cutscenes?

And that is bad how? If you've ever played any of the MGS games you know that cutscenes make up a big part of the series. Why would Konami want to keep that a secret? It should be on the back of the cover for fuck sake.
 
There were hardly any 20GB's even made/sold compared to the 60GB, as the retailers pretty much caused to die rather quickly. At least you're not an Arcade owner wanting to play some Burnout Paradise online.
 
[quote name='yukine']90 minutes worth of cutscenes?

And that is bad how? If you've ever played any of the MGS games you know that cutscenes make up a big part of the series. Why would Konami want to keep that a secret? It should be on the back of the cover for fuck sake.[/quote]

not 90 minutes worth total, but a single cut scene (amongst other cut scenes) that lasts 90 minutes. Might turn some people off.
 
Seriously?

That's fucking rad.

But I still find it silly that Konami is trying to stop that information from being known, yeah because it's a lot better for people to discover it in the course of playing the game rather than ahead of time. I don't think anyone is going to go "Dude, I was like all set to get MGS4 but then I heard there are really long cutscenes!"

Can't excuse the HDD install but anyone who has a 20 GB HD and cares about their space should of upgraded it by now.
 
[quote name='FriskyTanuki']There were hardly any 20GB's even made/sold compared to the 60GB, as the retailers pretty much caused to die rather quickly. At least you're not an Arcade owner wanting to play some Burnout Paradise online.[/quote]

Ya... I am a 20GB owner. It sucks.

I have to get a new HDD before MGS4 comes out or I'm screwed. GTA4 really ducked me over.
 
[quote name='scsg75']not 90 minutes worth total, but a single cut scene (amongst other cut scenes) that lasts 90 minutes. Might turn some people off.[/quote]

Apparently its two cutscenes that are around 90 minutes each. However you can skip (or pause) them.

Edge review
the cutscenes here are sure to invoke that thousand-yard stare, two in particular coming perilously close to the 90-minute mark.
Click to expand...
 
‘Metal Gear Solid 4′ Review Restrictions Not Applied To All Reviewers

The editors of Game Informer and PlayStation: The Official Magazine have contacted me to say the Konami requested no restrictions of their reviewers.In both cases, an absence of any note mentioning these restrictions should be seen simply as a sign that no constraints were requested or agreed to.

Rob Smith, editor in chief of P:TOM told me some people have been skeptical about his outlet, since they ran the first “MGS4″ review, but he assured me they encountered no Konami constraints.


On the other hand, the editors of Electronic Gaming Monthly have revealed that they were asked to avoid mention of some details and have held back their review until they can base one off of their own unrestricted copy of the game. Provisos in the IGN UK and Eurogamer reviews indicate that those outlets also faced restrictions.
Click to expand...
 
[quote name='Rei no Otaku']Considering Cheapy's own overblown reaction to the DMC4 install, I'm not surprised they asked reviewers not to mention it.[/quote]

Lulz, I remember that. "OMG Wombat 5 gigs, DMC4 has a Required install of 5 gigs!!!111 Not optional at all it is REQUIRED AND IT TAKES AT LEAST 20 MINUTES OMG!!!!! Did you hear me Wombat 5 gigs 5 gigs f-i-v-e w-h-o-l-e- g-i-g-s ahhhhhhhhhhh *Asplodes*"
 
Wow, that's really interesting. I wonder why some publications had restrictions and others didn't.
I wonder if Konami has different people "handing" different publications.
 
I think this is just being blown out of proportion, Konami isn't forcing EGM to not talk about it as far as I can tell. From everything I read it says Konami "has asked" EGM.

Like in the latest CAGcast, Cheapy stated that it doesn't surprise him that PR would try to make their game look the best in any publication as that is their job. It doesn't hurt to ask. :lol:
 
[quote name='MSUHitman']Maybe Konami gave restrictions to outlets "they didn't like?"[/quote]


or maybe they just gave restrictions to people who are most critical of games....dunno if EGM are one of those magazines.

Why should Konami even care anyway. Why should they even worry anyway. They know anyone who owns a PS3 and is a metal gear nut..will buy the game regardless of how it is or how long the cut scenes are. What do they have to hide. is there something so bad to drive current fans/users away from the series?
 
EGM is probably ready to try and trash the game. WHich in all honestly, we know that there's nothing fundamentally wrong with MGS4, we know that the game is going to have a great framerate, good graphics. The only true points of criticism are just those that are sheer opinion based.. such as opinions on story, cut scene length, pacing of action, etc. Konami has worked hard on this game and has put themselves out on the limb making this game exclusive for PS3, so they aren't going to allow petty EGM to trash their game before it even hits the market.
 
So they're petty because they may have negative opinions about the game? About parts like plot, controls, pacing etc.? Things that are more important that frame rate, good graphics etc. since we play games to get sucked in and have fun?

I bet you wouldn't be saying that if it was a 360 exclusive rather than the major exclusive for your beloved PS3.
 
Am I the only one that doesn't mind long fucking cutscenes? They're particularly well done in the MGS series so I'm actually looking forward to this, especially considering that I'm mostly playing the game for the story.
 
[quote name='crazytalkx']Am I the only one that doesn't mind long fucking cutscenes? They're particularly well done in the MGS series so I'm actually looking forward to this, especially considering that I'm mostly playing the game for the story.[/QUOTE]

I don't mind them at all, in fact when it comes to Metal Gear I prefer them. I play the MGS games first and foremost for the story, the gameplay is just an extra to me.
 
I used to not mind them, now I do as I have so little time for gaming I don't want to spend much of it watching cut scenes.

It's a dilemma as I like story driven games (loved Mass Effect for a recent example), but I just don't really have time to play them and thus not the patience to sit through cut scenes much anymore. So I don't really play RPGs or other games with lots of cut scenes etc. very often these days. Maybe one or two a year when I have a slow month and a little more free time.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']I used to not mind them, now I do as I have so little time for gaming I don't want to spend much of it watching cut scenes.
[/quote]

Ditto. Even 2 hours is a marathon session in my book anymore. The other problem, which is purely on my end, is that I have a very short attention span. Sitting an hour and half for a good movie is hard for me to do sometimes. But I'm hoping there will be dvd menu functionality of some sort for the cut scenes.
 
[quote name='dmaul1114']So they're petty because they may have negative opinions about the game? About parts like plot, controls, pacing etc.? Things that are more important that frame rate, good graphics etc. since we play games to get sucked in and have fun?

I bet you wouldn't be saying that if it was a 360 exclusive rather than the major exclusive for your beloved PS3.[/QUOTE]



if the game was Ninja Gaiden II then of course I'd say the same thing. Certain developers and certain teams I feel I can trust to deliver quality titles. This isn't a ps3 thing its a respect for certain developers and certain dev team thing... that's all.
 
But people have different opinions. There are plenty of things reviewers have complained about in NG2--silly plot, annoying camera etc.

It's not petty to point out the flaws of a game. Even the best games have flaws that an unbiased reviewer should point out--even if they are giving the game a good review score.
 
Let me get this straight, you were seriously accusing Thomas96 of being a 360 fanboy? That guy is the biggest MS hater / Sony lover on this board. Except for maybe TMK.
 
[quote name='Maklershed']Let me get this straight, you were seriously accusing Thomas96 of being a 360 fanboy? That guy is the biggest MS hater / Sony lover on this board. Except for maybe TMK.[/QUOTE]

Read again, I was saying his above post was just him showing his usual Sony bias/defending them as always. He was denying it by brining up NG2.
 
[quote name='Thomas96']EGM is probably ready to try and trash the game. WHich in all honestly, we know that there's nothing fundamentally wrong with MGS4, we know that the game is going to have a great framerate, good graphics. The only true points of criticism are just those that are sheer opinion based.. such as opinions on story, cut scene length, pacing of action, etc. Konami has worked hard on this game and has put themselves out on the limb making this game exclusive for PS3, so they aren't going to allow petty EGM to trash their game before it even hits the market.[/QUOTE]

That’s all that reviews are. They are opinions; I don’t know what else you would expect them to be. That’s what I want a reviewer to tell me, their personal experience playing the game, with opinions and criticisms on the story, cut scene length, pacing of action, etc. I’m also unclear how you know there will be nothing fundamentally wrong with the game, even before you have played it?

[quote name='crazytalkx']Am I the only one that doesn't mind long fucking cutscenes? They're particularly well done in the MGS series so I'm actually looking forward to this, especially considering that I'm mostly playing the game for the story.[/QUOTE]

I think Kojima could find better methods of incorporating the story into the gameplay. A game loses its sense of immersion for me, when the gameplay becomes divorced from the narrative. He has shown himself to be pretty creative in his gameplay and boss battles, I think make better use of gaming as a narrative medium, than lazily chopping a movie into an interactive game.
 
[quote name='DesertEagleXIX']Like thorbahn said, the six page 'analysis' seemed like a review without the score.[/QUOTE]

I hope they continue this route and just drop review scores altogether.
 
[quote name='msdmoney']
I think Kojima could find better methods of incorporating the story into the gameplay. A game loses its sense of immersion for me, when the gameplay becomes divorced from the narrative. He has shown himself to be pretty creative in his gameplay and boss battles, I think make better use of gaming as a narrative medium, than lazily chopping a movie into an interactive game.[/QUOTE]

Well, MGS has always felt like a movie-game. Even in the introduction of MGS when you're walking around as Snake for the first time, credits show on-screen. Games that do have that intense immersion lose characterization of the protagonist. What can be said about Gordon Freeman? We wouldn't feel the same way we do about Snake if there was a Half-Life approach to this, with the gameplay being so intertwined with the narrative.
 
[quote name='Dark Slayer120']Lulz, I remember that. "OMG Wombat 5 gigs, DMC4 has a Required install of 5 gigs!!!111 Not optional at all it is REQUIRED AND IT TAKES AT LEAST 20 MINUTES OMG!!!!! Did you hear me Wombat 5 gigs 5 gigs f-i-v-e w-h-o-l-e- g-i-g-s ahhhhhhhhhhh *Asplodes*"[/QUOTE]

Well to be fair, it was a long fucking time. And for what? Like 3 milliseconds faster than the 360 version? For the amount of space & time the installation took up, I should never see another load screen or pause in action in the game.

[quote name='Thomas96']if the game was Ninja Gaiden II then of course I'd say the same thing. Certain developers and certain teams I feel I can trust to deliver quality titles. This isn't a ps3 thing its a respect for certain developers and certain dev team thing... that's all.[/QUOTE]

So it's a hard-on for Konami that's fueling your current fan-boy rant? You've proven long ago that you're opinion is very biased, and, as a result, not worth a shit.
 
[quote name='crazytalkx']Well, MGS has always felt like a movie-game. Even in the introduction of MGS when you're walking around as Snake for the first time, credits show on-screen. Games that do have that intense immersion lose characterization of the protagonist. What can be said about Gordon Freeman? We wouldn't feel the same way we do about Snake if there was a Half-Life approach to this, with the gameplay being so intertwined with the narrative.[/QUOTE]

I don't think Half Life is the only way to incorporate the story. Gordon is intended to lack characterization, it fits in with the first person perspective and the overall idea that YOU are Gordon Freeman. The secondary characters are the primary method of conveying information to you without any perspective from Gordon, so that you feel like you are the actual participant. But that doesn't need to be the only way it is done, I think Snake could have a clear characterization while still involving the player in the unfolding of the story. I don't think the immersion requires the protagonist to be a mute.
 
[quote name='-Never4ever-']Well to be fair, it was a long fucking time. And for what? Like 3 milliseconds faster than the 360 version? For the amount of space & time the installation took up, I should never see another load screen or pause in action in the game.
[/quote]

From what I've seen, the PS3 version of DMC4 had 1-4 seconds of faster loading per load. This can be noted by still images that I've seen on the 360 version and not the PS3 version, ever.

Sony just needs to mandate it that installs have to be 100% optional. You don't have a lot of hard drive space, fine, enjoy your 30-40 second load times unless you delete hdd space or get a bigger one. That's the answer to the argument here. Plain and simple.
 
[quote name='msdmoney']I don't think Half Life is the only way to incorporate the story. Gordon is intended to lack characterization, it fits in with the first person perspective and the overall idea that YOU are Gordon Freeman. The secondary characters are the primary method of conveying information to you without any perspective from Gordon, so that you feel like you are the actual participant. But that doesn't need to be the only way it is done, I think Snake could have a clear characterization while still involving the player in the unfolding of the story. I don't think the immersion requires the protagonist to be a mute.[/QUOTE]

It just seems to me that a third-person perspective sometimes serves a better purpose in developing characters. That's one thing I could appreciate about MGS2. The lack of Snake and the fact that you met up with him later one, while still playing as Raiden lets you gain a greater appreciation for the character. I mean it would be great if there could be a way to make the player more involved, but the only attempts I've seen are done via Half Life's style or through QTE, which suck. SO IN SUMMARY: it just seems more effective this way for a game like MGS. I can't think of anything that would help, but I've always played MGS for the story first and the gameplay second.
 
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